Hello, last place

[ChatterRed]

Nice. :thumbdown

[Jack Burton]

Could be out of this thing by the end of april.

[Moose Milligan]

Not to offend anyone, but I think the NL Central is one of the weakest, if not the weakest in the game. Just because the Reds are last now doesn't mean that they'll be there in September. IMO, they've got the horses to compete with anyone if they get some breaks and some good performances out of the staff.

[He got it!]

I would have agreed with you before the season started Moose but after seeing the start that the Brewers, Cubs, and Cardinals are off to I don't think you can call the NL central weak. Maybe the most competetive (tight) division, but certainly not weak.

[redlegs2370]

I think there is a good chance the wild card will come from this division.

[Grounds_Crew]

Reds are out of it...already.

[JWP]

It's 9-13, not 9-20.

[Jefferson24]

It's time for Walt to do some magic. I think we need some personnel changes. This group of guys isn't just going to flip a switch and just start winning. Shank thing up a bit. Look at it this way, your in last place and couldn't really do any worse now could you.

[scounts22]

Maybe I'm just naieve, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. The Reds have too much talent this year to continue to be this craptastic. I have faith. And patience. It's still April. I will say it though, I'm nervous about what Jocketty will do. Not that I don't want him to do anything, but I'm nervous.

[zakthemack]

I don't think we're out of it just yet, but if we continue with this form, they will be by mid June. With the exception of the Cubs I'd say most teams in the central can be caught. I just can't see that happening though with above average numbers from Harang, a certain loss every time Arroyo pitches, and then no decisions from Cueto and Volquez due to poor run support.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Well, sitting both Keppinger AND Votto today isn't my idea of turning it around. Way to give Johnny C the best chance at winning today. *sigh* Well, today's my first chance to actually SEE the 2008 version of the Reds on TV. Let's hope the bats come alive. Hairston at SS should be interesting.

[zakthemack]

I'm glad I won't be watching. Kepp has cooled a bit but is always a threat, and Votto has been very solid the last week. So they have Patterson in Center?

[Hondo]

Remember one thing. The Reds were swept by the Pirates. If u take away those 3 losses. It is not so Bad... But you can't and these every other day drubbings are getting harder and harder top swallow?

Did Walt trade for A-Rod, Jake Peavy, or Victor Martinez last night? Oh well... Thought he was the savior and was going to shake things up... ???

That was a joke.

[fielder's choice]

"together again"

[zakthemack]

That commercial has been the season's saving grace.

[BurgervilleBuck]

Yah, who would think that a JTM commercial would be the best performance we'd get out of Arroyo so far.

Relax, folks.

[redsupport]

after the 6-4 record we are on the way

[SarasotaFan]

correct grammar is "worst" not "worse"

[redsupport]

sorry, you are correct, but the thesis is still valid

[TheBigLebowski]

9-14, 3-10 in our last 13.

Nothing's working. Our GM was fired. Marty's calling out the Cub Nation.

http://www.guerrilla-innovation.com/archives/panic-button.jpg


Need to resist the urge....but I want to push sooo badly..

[killuminati35]

It's 9-13, not 9-20.

The way the Reds are playing, 9-20 will be here sooner than we think.

[He got it!]

Put me down for the Nationals.

[BoCcc2832]

Hooray for all you Reds haters...it will be oh so bad to see your beautiful faces disappear here soon when us true Reds fans are enjoying the limelight of success. Seriously, get a grip. We're in a slump, but there's no need this early to say we're the worst team. We're not even in May yet! So quit the complaining and let's root on our Reds, not belittle them.

[CarolinaRedleg]

Hooray for all you Reds haters...it will be oh so bad to see your beautiful faces disappear here soon when us true Reds fans are enjoying the limelight of success. Seriously, get a grip. We're in a slump, but there's no need this early to say we're the worst team. We're not even in May yet! So quit the complaining and let's root on our Reds, not belittle them.


THANK YOU!!

[Jack Burton]

Hooray for all you Reds haters...it will be oh so bad to see your beautiful faces disappear here soon when us true Reds fans are enjoying the limelight of success. Seriously, get a grip. We're in a slump, but there's no need this early to say we're the worst team. We're not even in May yet! So quit the complaining and let's root on our Reds, not belittle them.
Sarcasm at its finest.

[lo ryder]

Hooray for all you Reds haters...it will be oh so bad to see your beautiful faces disappear here soon when us true Reds fans are enjoying the limelight of success. Seriously, get a grip. We're in a slump, but there's no need this early to say we're the worst team. We're not even in May yet! So quit the complaining and let's root on our Reds, not belittle them.

I agree its too early to give in, but I still think the Pirates series set a tone for this year. I sure as heck hope Im wrong, wont be the first time.

[ChatterRed]

Congrats. :D

Castellini is a stupid team owner. :thumbup:

[Moose Milligan]

I gotta think the Giants and Nats will be vying for the worst spot when it's all said and done.

[dsmith421]

I'll give this to Castellini: in Cincinnati we have the two stupidest owners in professional sports. The difference is that one tries and one doesn't. So Bob wins that race.

[Redus]

A red X? FAIL

[Chi-Town Red]

gonna be another Long season im afraid

[LexingtonLegend]

Jocketty isn't playing the games for them

[elfmanvt07]

Jocketty has done absolutely ZILCH since taking over, and it's his fault we're losing?

[bgwilly31]

Hooray for all you Reds haters...it will be oh so bad to see your beautiful faces disappear here soon when us true Reds fans are enjoying the limelight of success. Seriously, get a grip. We're in a slump, but there's no need this early to say we're the worst team. We're not even in May yet! So quit the complaining and let's root on our Reds, not belittle them.

I love your enthusiasm. But downgrading other REDS fans and telling them they're not true reds fans just because they are upset with another LOSING team, which this one obviously is. And because they are'nt smoking the magic Dragon and share the same "reds are just in a rut" type attitude. Because of these reasons we arent true REDS fans.

I think thats just BS. To tell you the truth.

IMO this team just doesnt look fundamental. We cant bunt, We cant sac fly, we cant hit and run, we cant steal, we cant run the bases, WE CANT BUNT, were up there swinging for the fences, we stand around in the outfield with our hand on our knees throughout the entire pitch(reference griffey), we make bad decisions, we dont have a "real" leadoff man, we dont have a "real" clean up guy, and WE CANT BUNT! . These things arent "in a rut" So to speak. These things are "your terrible" If you want to get better you need to hit the cages and work on your FUNDAMENTALS! Which obviously this team thus far has been unwilling to do. And we dont need to mention individual players stats. The reds are a TEAM. If you dont perform with the TEAM in mind you will lose, and thats what were seeing.


So my question to you is. When do we "other" "realistic" TRUE REDS fans get to look at a enthusiastic post like that and call you an off the wall optimist? When were in may and 14-21. Will it be time then?, When were 13 games back from the wildcard with 20 games remaining, would that be sufficent enough? Or will us realstic people still not be TRUE reds fans?

Sorry if i came off a little harsh there. I just get tired of people, Getting tired of other people that begin to lose "hope", when its justified. Then proclaim themselves "real Fans".

[Legion of Dunn]

I can handle getting beat. When you play 162, you're gonna lose at least in the neighborhood of 70 games. I can also accept that it's the first month of the season, and certain guys will be slow out of the box.

What I CAN'T accept is the regularity of embarrassingly bad at-bats, fielding plays, throws, baserunning decisions, etc., etc., that we've seen so far this season.

The play Freel made getting caught off second base to start the game and the play where Ross missed the ball, chased, and no one covered home are an absolute disgrace for a major league ballclub. And they're happening on a regular basis for the Reds.

They're playing a AAA-caliber team tonight. Problem is, they look like a low-A ball team.

[fewfirstchoice]

The Reds cant win with Dunn and JR clogging up the middle of this lineup.Something has to be done to bring up Bruce and let him play everyday.The Reds have had these same players for the last what 5 years togther almost.It has been proven the Reds cant win with this team.I say Jockety will over haul this lineup and quick.Dunn and JR will be gone come the trade dead line.He will try to find takers for Freel, Gonzo, Hatteberg, Weathers, Arroyo, and maybe Valentin if hes still around.I know some of these players are hurt and will have to prove there healthy before their traded but it can be done.
The rotation should be young and nasty next year.Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, and proabably a FA signing hopefully Lowe.
C- sign a FA
1B- Votto
2B-Phillips/Hatteberg
3B- EE
SS- Keppinger/Phillips
THe outfield needs to have Bruce in it and 2 other players not names Dunn or JR.I could maybe see Patterson sticking around and the Reds signing a FA run producer.Thats what i would like to see happen but it probably wont.

[Rounding Third]

Hatteberg at 2nd base?

Uhh...you also said that you want him traded.

[Jefferson24]

Man, does this team suck right now. Why exactly are they saving Bruce and Bailey? Get some people up here who will play some ball!!!

[JWP]

Wait, wait, you would rather have Patterson than Griffey or Dunn? I mean, I'm all for a better defense, but taking Patterson over Griffey or Dunn? If you're going to replace Griffey or Dunn in the OF you replace them with rising prospects like Bruce or legitimate stars. You don't replace players of that caliber with failed prospects like Corey Patterson. I agree with you that getting Dunn and Griffey out of here might help this team, but replacing them with players like Corey Patterson is certainly not the way to go about that.

[Mutaman]

Grande said before the game that when you're playing like this, the veterans must step up and lead the way. Well Jr. and Dunn sure stepped up---not.
I love you Jr, but there's simply no excuse for not hitting the cutoff man.

A bad night for Dusty- How can you justify sitting Phillips against a lefty? And he went one batter too many with Harang.

Good to have Ross back too. he's picking up right where he left off last year.

Oh well, patience.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

I agree with the Dunn/Griffey have to go remarks but dont wait till June/July--Do it now if you can, why wait??? They are only keeping Jr till he gets 600 out of the way and I hate to say it but I dont think anyone really cares about the 600 deal. If he does hit it here it will be on a weeknight in front of 14k paid/10k in the house...

[AmarilloRed]

The Reds cant win with Dunn and JR clogging up the middle of this lineup.Something has to be done to bring up Bruce and let him play everyday.The Reds have had these same players for the last what 5 years togther almost.It has been proven the Reds cant win with this team.I say Jockety will over haul this lineup and quick.Dunn and JR will be gone come the trade dead line.He will try to find takers for Freel, Gonzo, Hatteberg, Weathers, Arroyo, and maybe Valentin if hes still around.I know some of these players are hurt and will have to prove there healthy before their traded but it can be done.
The rotation should be young and nasty next year.Harang, Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, and proabably a FA signing hopefully Lowe.
C- sign a FA
1B- Votto
2B-Phillips/Hatteberg
3B- EE
SS- Keppinger/Phillips
THe outfield needs to have Bruce in it and 2 other players not names Dunn or JR.I could maybe see Patterson sticking around and the Reds signing a FA run producer.Thats what i would like to see happen but it probably wont.

This has got to be over-reaction of the worst kind. Dunn has averaged 40 HR, 100 RBI the last 3 seasons, and Griffey has averaged 30 HR, 85 RBI. I am all for calling up Bruce, but not to replace either player. Sign Dunn to a LTC, bring up Bruce, and see what you can get for Griffey in a trade. I don't think the Reds would do it, if they can't get comparable value back. Dunn and Griffey have started slow; that's no reason to trade both of them.

[wojo1025]

I wanted to make a post like this but talked myself out of it. I do, however, agree with pretty much everything that has been said.

This team is having a hard time scoring runs...that's a given. At least Baker tried to change things up with the lineup tonight, but how do you sit one of our two RH threats against a high strikeout lefty?! I know BP has been struggling and over swinging, but if you bench every guy that has been doing that we wouldn't have enough players to field a team!

I also agree that, at this point, why not bring up Bailey and/or Bruce and give them a shot. I was all for the signing and starting for Corey Patterson, but that is obviously not working out like I had hoped. Bite the bit, bring the kid up and just take your lumps. He will show flashes of brilliance and then go through some tough times where you think he's over matched (see Joey Votto) but he IS the future of the Reds, why not give him his chance.

Also, please, someone explain to me why Bill Bray is still in AAA meanwhile Jared Burton continues to come in for the 8th inning and seemingly fool...noone. I know, I know, he has a lot of K's, but from what I've seen lately he has been throwing a LOT of balls with no movement and hitters have been squaring them up solidly.

David Ross, thanks for coming...now can we go back to Paul Bako until we find a long term solution behind the plate! When is the last time we had a signal caller that we could run out there pretty much every day and felt like we had a chance with him? The play in the 8th was just flat out awful. That was a Javy play, not a "defensive catcher" David Ross play.

It's such a bittersweet time to be a Reds fan. The future of Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Harang, Bruce, Votto, BP, EE, Kepp, and all of the minor league guys that look like they're getting ready to move on up the ladder...the future looks bright. However, that being said, the "here and now" is extremely disappointing.

[CincyRed44]

Griffey can still help us win, Dunn on the other hand needs to be gone. Put Bruce in RF.

Vs LH

CF Hairston, Jr.
SS Keppinger
2B Phillips
RF Bruce
3B Encarnacion
LF Griffey
1B Votto
C Ross
P

Vs RH

RF Bruce
SS Keppinger
2B Phillips
LF Griffey
1B Votto
3B Encarnacion
C Bako
CF Patterson
P

[Mutaman]

This is the goal: I want Bruce in the starting lineup next year. I want him to hit over .270 with more than 20 Hr and more than 90 RBIs. That's the goal. How best do you achieve it? If that goal is best achieved by bringing him up and playing or sitting him in the big leagues now, fine. If that goal is best achieved by having him play every day in Louisville, fine. I'll leave that decision to the experts.

But bringing him up to "give him a shot" or be a quick fix to the current team is not keeping that goal in mind and is not a solution. This team is a year or two away. Lets get used to it and plan accordingly. Which is not to say that some level of basic competiveness this year is out of the question. But let's keep our eye on the ball.

[Legion of Dunn]

They can't be any worse going with youth. In fact, some of those guys may take fundamentals a little more seriously.

Freel looked like a fool tonight. I hate to bash a guy personally, but he made one of the dumbest baserunning mistakes I've ever witnessed and later fanned on a pitch that was literally nose-high. He brings nothing to the table.

[major harris]

I have profound love for baseball and a deeper affection for my Reds. I have been this way since 1973.

As I suffered through last nights game, I looked up at the clock of my living room and it said 1:01am...We were down 3-0 going into the 9th. I asked myself...Why do I keep torturing myself game after game...season after season.

I dunno...before I start rambling on...maybe its just the depression of a losing streak and the continuous act of stranding runners in scoring position. Maybe its the continuous feeble attempts to hit left handing pitching. Maybe its the fact that I have already identified that Dusty stays with starters too long. Maybe I haven't gotten over the fact that Dusty tries to steal bases down 5 runs in the 6th inning. Maybe its the fact that we have legit players in Louisville, but we don't want to use them until they reach the age 40. Maybe I get sick and tired of seeing Norris Hopper sit on the bench. maybe I have identified that Patterson has no business on this team. Maybe I have come to the conclusion that we could get another starter for Adam Dunn. Maybe I am angry that we don't have any right handed hitting threats on the bench. Maybe I am depressed that we have so much invested in Arroyo and I knew he wouldn't be worth it. Maybe I am mostly angry that we have one of the PREMIER closers in the game and we hardly use him...because we can't get a lead into the 9th inning.

Can you tell I am feeling this losing streak?

I dunno....maybe I am just depressed.

[redsfan1966]

I concur with pretty much everything you said, major....I drove down for Thursday's game, stayed up for last nite's game...and the gnawing thought begins---"Why?, Why?...why am I subjecting myself to this?" I could have saved a tank of gas Thursday, went golfing or just slept---I could have went to bed at 10 last nite and saved the frustrating of watching a underacheiving squad--but yet I continue. I guess that is why we are diehards...

[jmac]

I love baseball in general.
The reds first and foremost. So here is the worst part: Due to gas prices and long drive to work, I canceled my MLBEI package this year thinking well, I will have all the reds games to watch and now this...Yuck !
I still watch but the product greatly dissappoints.

[UPRedsFan]

And yet despite the frustration, we'll all be in front of our tv's or computers watching tonight at 9.

We'll want to see if maybe this time Belisle can look decent and maybe tonight Adam Dunn and the rest of the offense will come to life. We'll be hoping for the start of an 8 game winning streak. That's why they call us fanatics.

[Fullboat]

They can't be any worse going with youth. In fact, some of those guys may take fundamentals a little more seriously.

Freel looked like a fool tonight. I hate to bash a guy personally, but he made one of the dumbest baserunning mistakes I've ever witnessed and later fanned on a pitch that was literally nose-high. He brings nothing to the table.

And the CS when down by 6 the other day!! This player has got
to go.

[CWRed]

Grande said before the game that when you're playing like this, the veterans must step up and lead the way. Well Jr. and Dunn sure stepped up---not.
I love you Jr, but there's simply no excuse for not hitting the cutoff man.

A bad night for Dusty- How can you justify sitting Phillips against a lefty? And he went one batter too many with Harang.

Good to have Ross back too. he's picking up right where he left off last year.

Oh well, patience.

"A bad night for Dusty?"

One of the worst managers in the majors.

[CWRed]

Griffey can still help us win, Dunn on the other hand needs to be gone. Put Bruce in RF.

Vs LH

CF Hairston, Jr.
SS Keppinger
2B Phillips
RF Bruce
3B Encarnacion
LF Griffey
1B Votto
C Ross
P

Vs RH

RF Bruce
SS Keppinger
2B Phillips
LF Griffey
1B Votto
3B Encarnacion
C Bako
CF Patterson
P

Griffey is 90 and if you think Dunn is a liability in the field then don't mention anything about Griffey. No reason to keep Griffey after he hits #600. Dunn I will give him a little longer although I think Dusty has screwed him up.

[ChatterRed]

Need to let Griffey walk if no other team is willing to trade for him, after 600. Let Dunn walk too.

Bring up Bruce, and go young and then maybe sign some "quality" vet FA's to fill in the gaps in the offseason.

The definition of insanity is contuing to do things the same way and expecting a different result.

[bgwilly31]

It's such a bittersweet time to be a Reds fan. The future of Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Harang, Bruce, Votto, BP, EE, Kepp, and all of the minor league guys that look like they're getting ready to move on up the ladder...the future looks bright. However, that being said, the "here and now" is extremely disappointing.

yeah if we dont trade our future.

After another losing season, and possibly one of the worst losing seasons this year. Who knows who they will move.
Kepp might get traded, Votto might get traded, bruce might get traded, Baily might get traded.... It would be just like the reds to trade some of those guys away for an Old' Fart big name RH OF to take the place of griffey after he retires.

[NastyBoy]

After another losing season, and possibly one of the worst losing seasons this year.

I guess no one from this forum was around for the 1982 season. They were horrible. Dan Dreissen batting cleanup wth .269/17/57. Mario Soto AND Tom Seaver in the rotation, but the reds could not score any runs. Sounds a little familar. Johnny Bench playing 3B. Those were the days!

[bgwilly31]

Hooray for all you Reds haters...it will be oh so bad to see your beautiful faces disappear here soon when us true Reds fans are enjoying the limelight of success. Seriously, get a grip. We're in a slump, but there's no need this early to say we're the worst team. We're not even in May yet! So quit the complaining and let's root on our Reds, not belittle them.


I love your enthusiasm. But downgrading other REDS fans and telling them they're not true reds fans just because they are upset with another LOSING team, which this one obviously is. And because they are'nt smoking the magic Dragon and share the same "reds are just in a rut" type attitude. Because of these reasons we arent true REDS fans.

I think thats just BS. To tell you the truth.

IMO this team just doesnt look fundamental. We cant bunt, We cant sac fly, we cant hit and run, we cant steal, we cant run the bases, WE CANT BUNT, were up there swinging for the fences, we stand around in the outfield with our hand on our knees throughout the entire pitch(reference griffey), we make bad decisions, we dont have a "real" leadoff man, we dont have a "real" clean up guy, and WE CANT BUNT! . These things arent "in a rut" So to speak. These things are "your terrible" If you want to get better you need to hit the cages and work on your FUNDAMENTALS! Which obviously this team thus far has been unwilling to do. And we dont need to mention individual players stats. The reds are a TEAM. If you dont perform with the TEAM in mind you will lose, and thats what were seeing.


So my question to you is. When do we "other" "realistic" TRUE REDS fans get to look at a enthusiastic post like that and call you an off the wall optimist? When were in may and 14-21. Will it be time then?, When were 13 games back from the wildcard with 20 games remaining, would that be sufficent enough? Or will us realstic people still not be TRUE reds fans?

Sorry if i came off a little harsh there. I just get tired of people, Getting tired of other people that begin to lose "hope", when its justified. Then proclaim themselves "real Fans".


So are we still being REDS haters and are we still not TRUE REDS fans.

Or do you still think the reds are in the limelight of success.:lol:


BTW i dont care how terrible we are this year or will be.

But please oh please. Can we smack the crap out of the cubs these next 3 games!

CMON REDLEGS!

[Rounding Third]

They can't be any worse going with youth. In fact, some of those guys may take fundamentals a little more seriously.

Freel looked like a fool tonight. I hate to bash a guy personally, but he made one of the dumbest baserunning mistakes I've ever witnessed and later fanned on a pitch that was literally nose-high. He brings nothing to the table.

But according to Jeff Brantley it is ok for him to make mistakes because it "brings excitement."

Freel is way to reckless and aggressive. Baseball is NOT a sport to be aggressive in, it has shown that being patient pays off.