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Chip R
06-11-2008, 06:58 PM
No Albert. No Brandon.

Redlegs:

Jay Bruce cf
Paul Janish ss
Ken Griffey Jr. rf
Adam Dunn lf
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Joey Votto 1b
Jolbert Cabrera 2b
Paul Bako c
Johnny Cueto pRedbirds:
Skip Schumaker lf
Aaron Miles 2b
Ryan Ludwick rf
Rick Ankiel cf
Troy Glaus 3b
Chris Duncan 1b
Jason LaRue c
Braden Looper p
Brendan Ryan ss

jojo
06-11-2008, 07:01 PM
No Albert. No Brandon.

A winning trade off for the Reds.....

Benihana
06-11-2008, 07:08 PM
When does Kepp come back?

VR
06-11-2008, 07:09 PM
that is a really bad lineup of epic proportions for the Redbirds.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:13 PM
whole bear!

gotta love a 2nd baseman wearing #54

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:14 PM
Schumaker flies out to left. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:15 PM
Miles walks.

The audio on FSN is really messed up tonight. Some strange sound in the background.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:17 PM
Cueto looks terrible

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:17 PM
4 pitch walk to Ludwick. 8 of the last 9 pitches have been balls.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:18 PM
That didn't take long. Ankiel with a long homer to right center. 3-0 Cards.

redsfaninbsg
06-11-2008, 07:18 PM
The first ten innings of this series has showed me why the Reds are no where near contending for the Wild Card.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:20 PM
I always laugh at those who think the Cards lineup is "terrible" and still they win more than they lose and beat us to death with our "superior" players.

Whatever it is that the terrible lineup has--I wish we had it.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:20 PM
3rd walk of the inning to Glaus.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:21 PM
3rd walk of the inning......

CTA513
06-11-2008, 07:21 PM
Dick Pole finally goes out to talk to Cueto.

RedsManRick
06-11-2008, 07:21 PM
What happened to the Johnny Cueto whose control was a strength? He's all over the place. Not good.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:22 PM
One of the things yu get with kids. Homer last night and Cueto tonight. Harang, Arroyo, and Volquez--and pray for rain.

Falls City Beer
06-11-2008, 07:22 PM
Cueto's not ready to be a starter.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:22 PM
Duncan flies out to left. 2 outs.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:24 PM
Gang...this is going to be ugly

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:24 PM
Wow. LaRue homers to left center. 5-0 Cards.

cumberlandreds
06-11-2008, 07:24 PM
What happened to the Johnny Cueto whose control was a strength? He's all over the place. Not good.

He's a young pitcher who should, most likely, be in AAA honing his skills. But the Reds have nothing better at AAA so he's going to have to learn at this level. There's going to be nights like this while he goes through this process.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:24 PM
Even LaRue makes us look like the 1961 Mets

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:24 PM
Cueto missing by quite a bit, gets behind 2-0, and grooves one for Larue

CTA513
06-11-2008, 07:24 PM
Why give Larue a meatball when Looper is up next?

Falls City Beer
06-11-2008, 07:24 PM
Cueto pretty obviously has no confidence in the stuff that catches the plate.

Strikes Out Looking
06-11-2008, 07:24 PM
Wow. LaRue homers to left center. 5-0 Cards.

I must be seeing things. Not that LaRue?

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:25 PM
I must be seeing things. Not that LaRue?


It seems they put on a Cardinals uniform and it transforms them into decent ballplayers. Sickening.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:25 PM
A strikeout ends the inning. I think for the sake of the bullpen Cueto is going to be out there for a while to take a beating. After Homers 3 2/3 last night they can't go to the bullpen too early.

VR
06-11-2008, 07:26 PM
Johnny, this is MLB

That stands for "Midnight Louisville Bus" if you don't start pitching better

RedsManRick
06-11-2008, 07:26 PM
I guess an Adam Dunn style offense (BB/HR/SO) can work pretty well. 3 BB, 2 HR, 1 SO = 5 runs.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:27 PM
did Cueto throw a single changeup in that inning?

Falls City Beer
06-11-2008, 07:28 PM
You know, Cueto can refine his pitches in the bullpen too. And he wouldn't have to go through the lineup three times refining it.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:28 PM
Unfortunately, this offensively challenged club might as well forfeit and head home with Cueto on the mound and tonight.

VR
06-11-2008, 07:28 PM
silly question...have the Reds hit a 1st inning 3 run shot this year?

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Bruce grounds out to short. 1 out.

RedsManRick
06-11-2008, 07:29 PM
You know, Cueto can refine his pitches in the bullpen too. And he wouldn't have to go through the lineup three times refining it.

Well, once through the lineup was enough to get rocked tonight.

joshnky
06-11-2008, 07:29 PM
You know, Cueto can refine his pitches in the bullpen too. And he wouldn't have to go through the lineup three times refining it.

But who do you start instead?

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:30 PM
sure glad there's no long man in the pen -- it's not like the team doesn't have an off day after 20 straight game days and 2 rookies in the rotation

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:30 PM
Janish swings at the first pitch and grounds out to 3rd. 2 outs.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:30 PM
Is it just me or does Bruce look like a different player in the leadoff spot? He doesn't seem the same -- of course, maybe it's just me.

Falls City Beer
06-11-2008, 07:30 PM
But who do you start instead?

Maloney I guess. I don't know. Cueto's worth protecting though.

flyer85
06-11-2008, 07:30 PM
Reds do make outs fast and furious

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:32 PM
Junior strikes out swinging. 5-0 Cards after 1.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:32 PM
11 pitch inning for Looper.

Falls City Beer
06-11-2008, 07:32 PM
Couple of more weeks of this dead playing, and Dusty's going to get the ax.

Tommyjohn25
06-11-2008, 07:32 PM
Geez guys. Cueto has been pretty darn good the last couple times out. Against some pretty darn good offenses. This is GOING to happen at his young age. Sending him to AAA will accomplish absolutely nothing at this point IMO. I understand the frustration, but try to keep it in perspective.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:33 PM
Janish swings at the first pitch and grounds out to 3rd. 2 outs.

He hit it hard -- I have no problem with that

joshnky
06-11-2008, 07:33 PM
Is it just me or does Bruce look like a different player in the leadoff spot? He doesn't seem the same -- of course, maybe it's just me.

Bruce was returning to earth before his move to the lead off spot. It was inevitable that he would hit a cold spell.

Tommyjohn25
06-11-2008, 07:33 PM
Couple of more weeks of this dead playing, and Dusty's going to get the ax.

Not that I disagree with the sentiment. However, there is NO way that happens IMO.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:35 PM
Ryan flies out to right. 1 out.

westofyou
06-11-2008, 07:35 PM
Couple of more weeks of this dead playing, and Dusty's going to get the ax.

Then the Reds will really be the Royal Tenenbaums of baseball.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:35 PM
Couple of more weeks of this dead playing, and Dusty's going to get the ax.Dick Pole will go first. After these next 2 weeks I have a feeling Pole may be gone.

Falls City Beer
06-11-2008, 07:35 PM
Not that I disagree with the sentiment. However, there is NO way that happens IMO.

Dusty wasn't Walt's pick, and it's pretty clear that Walt's running the show now.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:36 PM
Cueto blocks the ball from Schumaker then throws the ball away at first.

redsfaninbsg
06-11-2008, 07:37 PM
That last play is in a nutshell why I really have little respect for how Griffey plays the game. Standing bow legged as the throw goes to first, God forbid he moves and back up a play.

joshnky
06-11-2008, 07:37 PM
Geez guys. Cueto has been pretty darn good the last couple times out. Against some pretty darn good offenses. This is GOING to happen at his young age. Sending him to AAA will accomplish absolutely nothing at this point IMO. I understand the frustration, but try to keep it in perspective.

Cueto's last start he allowed 8 hits, 3 walks, 2 hrs, and 3 earned runs in six innings. More lucky than good with that many base runners. I agree that he needs to take his lumps in the majors but its still a little disappointing after his fast start.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:38 PM
Miles grounds out to 1st. 2 outs. Schumaker to 3rd.

Tommyjohn25
06-11-2008, 07:38 PM
Dusty wasn't Walt's pick, and it's pretty clear that Walt's running the show now.

Very true, guess we'll see. It's a tough situation to say the least.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:38 PM
I can't believe I'm typing this, but changing this manager will do nothing to improve winning on this ball club. Sorry, but there's something missing here with the Reds and it's on the field and not the dugout.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:38 PM
Dusty wasn't Walt's pick, and it's pretty clear that Walt's running the show now.

Castellini is running the show, and Dusty's his guy.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:39 PM
Ludwick flies out to center. 5-0 Cards mid 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:41 PM
Dunn with a broken bat fly out to center. 1 out.

Tommyjohn25
06-11-2008, 07:41 PM
Cueto's last start he allowed 8 hits, 3 walks, 2 hrs, and 3 earned runs in six innings. More lucky than good with that many base runners. I agree that he needs to take his lumps in the majors but its still a little disappointing after his fast start.

Disappointing, yes. Unexpected, not really. At least not surprising to me. With that said, I am more concerned with the well-being of the ant hill in my front yard as I am with Cueto becoming a bust.

Bob Borkowski
06-11-2008, 07:41 PM
Even LaRue makes us look like the 1961 Mets

The Mets first took the field in '62, WV.

But I do see your point. ;)

Tommyjohn25
06-11-2008, 07:42 PM
I can't believe I'm typing this, but changing this manager will do nothing to improve winning on this ball club. Sorry, but there's something missing here with the Reds and it's on the field and not the dugout.

Agreed 100%.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:42 PM
Edwin grounds out to short. 2 outs.

joshnky
06-11-2008, 07:43 PM
Disappointing, yes. Unexpected, not really. At least not surprising to me. With that said, I am more concerned with the well-being of the ant hill in my front yard as I am with Cueto becoming a bust.

Agreed. Except the part about the ant hill. I'm not all that concerned about your ant hill.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:43 PM
The Mets first took the field in '62, WV.

But I do see your point. ;)
Oops. Well, I knew it was when I was in Jr. high ;).

Tommyjohn25
06-11-2008, 07:43 PM
Agreed. Except the part about the ant hill. I'm not all that concerned about your ant hill.

Lol! :cool:

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:44 PM
Looper throwing that heavy fastball over and over and over.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:44 PM
Votto flies out to left. 5-0 Cards after 2.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:44 PM
Another 11 pitch inning.

Strikes Out Looking
06-11-2008, 07:45 PM
In a nutshell, this team is missing a couple of things. One, the young players are just that, young. They make rookie mistakes, because they are, well, rookies. Two, the legend in right field, while once a great player, is no longer that. And he bats in the most important spot in the lineup.

I think this team will finish around .500 and then next year, when the rookies have a year under their belts, and someone who can actually run is in right field, will be lights out.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:46 PM
Complete game shutout coming!

gm
06-11-2008, 07:47 PM
Is it too late to get Lehr and Shearn back from Seoul?

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:47 PM
Ankiel walks. The 4th walk by Cueto.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:48 PM
Nice play by Janish and Cabrera on a 6-4-3 DP. 2 outs.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:48 PM
how about the turn from whole bear!!

reds44
06-11-2008, 07:48 PM
What a play by Janish.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 07:50 PM
Cueto gets a little too rocky and rolly in his delivery, I think -- command suffers

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:50 PM
Duncan walks. 5 walks for Cueto.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 07:50 PM
In a nutshell, this team is missing a couple of things. One, the young players are just that, young. They make rookie mistakes, because they are, well, rookies. Two, the legend in right field, while once a great player, is no longer that. And he bats in the most important spot in the lineup.

I think this team will finish around .500 and then next year, when the rookies have a year under their belts, and someone who can actually run is in right field, will be lights out.

It's more complicated than that, SOL. This teams lacks that fundamental hitting sense that great or at least good players have. The early swinging at junk and lack of good baseball sense we see exhibited night after night is not something that Votto, Bruce, Cueto, and Volquez can overcome. A lot of it is in between the ears of most of the players, unfortunately. The aging right fielder has not had one thing to do with the 5 runs the Cardinals have or the 0 runs the Reds have. Like most nights, you can replace the names of who is and who isn't hitting or doing things right and it could be anyone among the 8 position players. Continuing to complain that all the Reds' sins lie on the back of Ken Griffey Jr. is a cop out. Every single one of the guys on the field have a part in this offensive putridness.

reds44
06-11-2008, 07:51 PM
I still think Cueto has zero to learn from going to AAA. He's just going to have night like these.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:51 PM
Wild pitch moves Duncan to 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:52 PM
LaRue fouls out to right. 5-0 Cards mid 3rd.

reds44
06-11-2008, 07:52 PM
Nice play by Junior.

Runs please?

redsmetz
06-11-2008, 07:54 PM
I still think Cueto has zero to learn from going to AAA. He's just going to have night like these.

I agree. I'm convinced the same is true of Bailey. Lets polish them up here.

Now, that said, a comeback would be nice. Of course, I said that last night at the ballpark. It was just too gorgeous a night at the old ball yard to lose a game.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:55 PM
Cabrera grounds out to 2nd on a good play by Miles. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:56 PM
Bako strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 07:57 PM
Cueto grounds out to 2nd. That was a 9 pitch inning. Looper through 3 on 31 pitches. 5-0 Cards.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:00 PM
Looper grounds out to short on the first pitch. 1 out.

Always Red
06-11-2008, 08:01 PM
Then the Reds will really be the Royal Tenenbaums of baseball.

If the Cast fires Dusty this year, after unloading Krivsky in April, no one will ever want to work for him again.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:01 PM
Ryan grounds out to short. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:02 PM
4 pitch walk to Schumaker. 6 walks for Cueto.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 08:03 PM
31 pitches through 3 innings. When the Reds play well they make the pitcher throw twice that many pitches. When they get beat I notice it is usually a game where they give the opposing pitcher lots of those quick innings.

reds44
06-11-2008, 08:05 PM
Listening to Bench, I'm not sure what the hell Dick Pole is doing.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:05 PM
Miles walks. 7 walks.

Wheelhouse
06-11-2008, 08:05 PM
If the Cast fires Dusty this year, after unloading Krivsky in April, no one will ever want to work for him again.

Cast won't be the one to fire Dusty--Jocketty would. And if he does, it would be totally understandable--he has the right to have his own guy.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:05 PM
2 walks to Aaron Miles. Aaron Miles, the fearsome.

RedsManRick
06-11-2008, 08:07 PM
Cueto has 7 walks on the day. Something is wrong.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:07 PM
Ludwick doubles in a run. Miles is thrown out at the plate. 6-0 Cards mid 4th.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:07 PM
great play by Bako -- highly doubtful Ross makes that play

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:08 PM
Cueto has 7 walks on the day. Something is wrong.
Every time Dick Pole goes to the mound, a hard hit ball comes right after. Someone chain him to the bench.

Always Red
06-11-2008, 08:09 PM
Cast won't be the one to fire Dusty--Jocketty would. And if he does, it would be totally understandable--he has the right to have his own guy.

Cast hired Dusty, not Jocketty (or Krivsky). Cast would have to decide that he would be fired.

It would be naive to believe anything else.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:09 PM
Is farmersonly.com really only for farmers?

I would like to hope so.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:09 PM
Will the Reds get a hit this inning?

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:10 PM
Cast hired Dusty, not Jocketty (or Krivsky). Cast would have to decide that he would be fired.

It would be naive to believe anything else.

Guess Krivsky is naive, then. He said Dusty was his man :)

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:10 PM
Bruce strikes out looking. 1 out.

RedsManRick
06-11-2008, 08:10 PM
It's almost as if Pole comes in and says "You're trying to hard. Use your defense. Go get 'em." Cueto hears "Just put one over the plate".

deltachi8
06-11-2008, 08:10 PM
Cueto has 7 walks on the day. Something is wrong.

like not being quite ready for a full season of mlb?

Ltlabner
06-11-2008, 08:10 PM
Every time Dick Pole goes to the mound, a hard hit ball comes right after. Someone chain him to the bench.

No need to worry, Dick Pole only wakes from his evening nap up a time or two during each game.

reds44
06-11-2008, 08:11 PM
great play by Bako -- highly doubtful Ross makes that play
Highly doubtful Bako gets a hit in this game.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:11 PM
No need to worry, Dick Pole only wakes from his evening nap up a time or two during each game.

That's scary. I was thinking the same thing.:)

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:11 PM
Janish flies out to left. 2 outs.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 08:12 PM
Cast hired Dusty, not Jocketty (or Krivsky). Cast would have to decide that he would be fired.

It would be naive to believe anything else.

Yep. And that, my friends, is why this mess is getting worse even with the young talent. Cast should pay off Dusty as his penance and let Walt run this show. If he would or does, he'll get his winner in realistic time. If he doesn't or can't help himself, then this mess will get worse.

Always Red
06-11-2008, 08:12 PM
Guess Krivsky is naive, then. He said Dusty was his man :)

Krivsky always was a good, loyal soldier. I admire that in him.

I still think Dusty was Castellini's choice.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:12 PM
Pretty much all Looper is doing is locating fastballs in and out with movement. The occasional breaking ball, but not many.

reds44
06-11-2008, 08:12 PM
I want to see us get perfect gamed.

It would be funny.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:13 PM
Junior doubles off the wall in left. Finally a hit.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:14 PM
Highly doubtful Bako gets a hit in this game.

Bako hasn't well enough for you this year? Prefer David Ross?

Even if Bako goes hitless, his defense has saved the team a run.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:15 PM
I want to see us get perfect gamed.

It would be funny.

Not happening. Worst right fielder in baseball broke up the no-no.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:16 PM
Dunn strikes out looking. 6-0 Cards after 4.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:16 PM
How many called third strikes have we taken this year?

top6
06-11-2008, 08:17 PM
Is farmersonly.com really only for farmers?

I would like to hope so.
I assume you are "city folk" because it's pretty clear you just don't get it.

reds44
06-11-2008, 08:17 PM
Bako hasn't well enough for you this year? Prefer David Ross?

Even if Bako goes hitless, his defense has saved the team a run.
Sample size.

Career .234/.307/.323 hitter, and oh yeah he's 36 years old.

Paul Bako is nothing but all sorts of awful.

flyer85
06-11-2008, 08:18 PM
real simple ... Cueto has no command, lots of balls and pitches down the middle. Looper has been living on the corners, left nothing out over the plate

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:18 PM
Is farmersonly.com really only for farmers?

I would like to hope so.

Ah, the "anti adult friend finder."

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:19 PM
Ankiel strikes out swinging. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:20 PM
Glaus grounds out to 3rd. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:21 PM
Duncan singles to center.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:23 PM
LaRue walks. 8 walks.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:26 PM
I assume you are "city folk" because it's pretty clear you just don't get it.

Shall we line dance?

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:26 PM
Looper flies out to right. 6-0 Cards mid 5th.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:26 PM
That is 101 pitches for Cueto so that should be it. Maybe they can Mario Soto back to work with him since it is pretty obvious these kids don't get much from their actual pitching coach Pole.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:27 PM
Is Dick Pole out of his league with Cueto and Bailey in the rotation?

top6
06-11-2008, 08:27 PM
Shall we line dance?

Always.

I can do that.

(See how I did that? I broke into another annoying commercial.)

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:29 PM
Edwin pops out to 2nd on the first pitch. 1 out.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:29 PM
Always.

I can do that.

(See how I did that? I broke into another annoying commercial.)

Hey man!

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:30 PM
Edwin pops out to 2nd on the first pitch. 1 out.


Has anyone else grown weary of our hitting coach? Too many first pitches swung at for no gain. I just don't understand this team.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:31 PM
Hey man!

Dude.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:31 PM
Votto grounds out to 1st. 2 outs.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:32 PM
Let's get Herrera in the game.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:32 PM
Cabrera flies out to center on the first pitch. That was a 7 pitch inning. 6-0 Cards after 5.

Always Red
06-11-2008, 08:32 PM
Has anyone else grown weary of our hitting coach? Too many first pitches swung at for no gain. I just don't understand this team.

I'm seeing a lot of blaming the pitching coach and hitting coach on this thread.

Does anyone think that Brook Jacoby tells Edwin (everyday) "go up there and swing at the first pitch and pop it up."

Aren't the actual players accountable?

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:33 PM
That is about the biggest difference in pitch counts you will see. Cueto with 101 pitches, Looper with 56.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 08:33 PM
I'm seeing a lot of blaming the pitching coach and hitting coach on this thread.

Does anyone think that Brook Jacoby tells Edwin (everyday) "go up there and swing at the first pitch and pop it up."

Aren't the actual players accountable?

Amen.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:34 PM
Double switch. Herrera in to pitch. Andy Phillips in to play 2nd.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:36 PM
see ya Brendan

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:36 PM
Ryan strikes out swinging on a 68 MPH pitch. 1 out.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:37 PM
I'm seeing a lot of blaming the pitching coach and hitting coach on this thread.

Does anyone think that Brook Jacoby tells Edwin (everyday) "go up there and swing at the first pitch and pop it up."

Aren't the actual players accountable?

Of course. I said that earlier. But through proper instruction, you can teach a player to be more patient at the plate and watch for his pitch. For some reason, and it may not be Brook Jacoby's fault at all, this team loves to head up to the plate and swing away. That's not saying that you always do that, but working the pitcher a little bit is always good.

As for the pitching coach, I don't know. Maybe it's because the Reds don't win more than they lose, but I hear so many of the Reds pitchers talking abot just being confused on why they aren't pitching well. I'm ignorant of what Dick Pole does at pitching coach, I admit that, but it would seem that by watching film (or tape) you could see flaws in the pitcher's mechanics. That's why I wonder why they have to fly Mario Soto in to work with these kids. Is he that much smarter than Pole?

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:38 PM
Schumaker lines out to 2nd. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:39 PM
Miles strikes out looking. 6-0 Cards mid 6th. That was an 86 MPH fastball.

lollipopcurve
06-11-2008, 08:39 PM
see ya Aaron

RedsManRick
06-11-2008, 08:41 PM
Danny Herrera is my hero. The only question in my mind is this: How long before we hear him called "the David Eckstein of pitchers" given that he's a.) Short and b.) Not Black?

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:42 PM
Broken bat ground out to 2nd by Bako.

Always Red
06-11-2008, 08:43 PM
Of course. I said that earlier. But through proper instruction, you can teach a player to be more patient at the plate and watch for his pitch. For some reason, and it may not be Brook Jacoby's fault at all, this team loves to head up to the plate and swing away. That's not saying that you always do that, but working the pitcher a little bit is always good.

As for the pitching coach, I don't know. Maybe it's because the Reds don't win more than they lose, but I hear so many of the Reds pitchers talking abot just being confused on why they aren't pitching well. I'm ignorant of what Dick Pole does at pitching coach, I admit that, but it would seem that by watching film (or tape) you could see flaws in the pitcher's mechanics. That's why I wonder why they have to fly Mario Soto in to work with these kids. Is he that much smarter than Pole?

good post, WV. I agree with much that you say.

EE is a wild card- I do not think he listens to his coaches all the time- he is an excellent talent, but he does dumb things, while running bases, setting his feet while throwing, getting too anxious at the plate, for example. I think he just needs to discipline himself more.

Dick Pole? I just don't know how good he is, either. I do know that it's not his fault that Cueto walked 8 guys tonight.

I have no problem at all with replacing both Pole and Jacoby, but I think the Reds have a bunch of guys who don't always do what they're trained to do, either. Heck, the Reds outfielders miss cut-off men every single game!!

That's no one's fault but the players themselves.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:45 PM
A. Phillips flies out to center as Ankiel makes the catch from his knees. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:46 PM
Bruce singles to right.

VR
06-11-2008, 08:46 PM
The Reds offense is built around very streaky players. Unfortunately, no one is streaking right now. And when that happens, the Reds have nothing to fall back on.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:46 PM
Janish singles to left. 1st and 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:48 PM
Junior grounds out to 1st on a diving stop by Duncan. 6-0 Cards after 6.

Stormy
06-11-2008, 08:50 PM
Has anyone else grown weary of our hitting coach? Too many first pitches swung at for no gain. I just don't understand this team.

Swinging early in the count is a cornerstone of Dustyball. This is not the same patient offense that scored in droves from June-September of last year under different guidance. Likewise there is nothing new with Dusty's buddy Dick Pole's inability to handle young pitchers. Nightmare hire on day 1, still a nightmare hire 67 games into the season. This will always be a bad fit, and virtually every game of the season indicates as much, even on those occasions when a rare offensive onslaught or a Volquez pitching gem leads to victory.

We're outclassed by a Cardinals team whose starting 9 (outside Pujols) would mostly have had a hard time finding regular work this offseason. Obviously when the cast changes but the results stay the same, there is some legitimate "coaching-up" going on with the Cards, and some "dumbing down" going on with the Reds.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:51 PM
Ludwick continues to kill the Reds pitching with a home run. 7-0 Cards.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:52 PM
Ankiel grounds out to 1st.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:53 PM
Glaus grounds out to short. 2 outs.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:55 PM
Swinging early in the count is a cornerstone of Dustyball. This is not the same patient offense that scored in droves from June-September of last year under different guidance. Likewise there is nothing new with Dusty's buddy Dick Pole's inability to handle young pitchers. Nightmare hire on day 1, still a nightmare hire 67 games into the season. This will always be a bad fit, and virtually every game of the season indicates as much, even on those occasions when a rare offensive onslaught or a Volquez pitching gem leads to victory.

We're outclassed by a Cardinals team whose starting 9 (outside Pujols) would mostly have had a hard time finding regular work this offseason.

Sad, isn't it, Stormy? I also think it's more than Dustyball, but a good portion of it is. Edwin has always swung on the first pitch as has Phillips. That's OK if you're successful, but notice how many of these swings are pitiful grounders which should tell the players something, and yet it does not.

On the other side of the field lies a team that is minus their best player, but it makes no difference. While our team is emasculated with any loss (Keppinger, whoever), they just play good fundamental baseball. Kind of makes you sick.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:55 PM
Duncan grounds out to 1st on a 65 MPH pitch. 7-0 Cards mid 7th.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 08:58 PM
Dunn flies out to left. 1 out.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 08:58 PM
Dunn's caught the fever. One pitch, one out.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:00 PM
Encarnacion flies out to left. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:01 PM
Votto flies out to center. That was a 9 pitch inning. 7-0 Cards after 7.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:03 PM
LaRue singles to left. He has been on base 3 times tonight.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 09:04 PM
Looper - 82 pitches through 7 innings or 11.7 (roughly) per inning.

Reds pitchers - 133 pitches through 7 innings or 19 per inning.

Wow.

The hitters are the Cardinals' pitchers best friend.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:06 PM
Looper doubles to left. 2nd and 3rd.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 09:07 PM
Herrera proves he belongs on the Reds pitching staff. Second and third with no one out.

RedsManRick
06-11-2008, 09:08 PM
Why is Herrera pitching in to a 3rd inning? I'd ask if Dusty was stupid, but I already know the answer to that one...

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 09:08 PM
Herrerra should be a one inning pitcher, two at mst. These hitters are drawing a bead on him now.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:08 PM
Ryan singles to left. 8-0 Cards.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 09:09 PM
"you can't overexpose Danny Herrera." - Marty Brenneman

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 09:09 PM
Dusty's idea. Lets save the bullpen and let Herrera get his brains beat out tonight.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:10 PM
I still think Herrera can be very effective in short outings this is just a rare night they are trying to eat up innings with as few pitchers as possible.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 09:10 PM
Excessive negatism is hard to avoid when they are playing this bad. Its why I've posted just a few times tonight.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 09:11 PM
Why am I not surprised that Corey Patterson goes to Center field on the double switch? So he can come up early to hit at the first pitch and fly out? You don't need a defensive replacement when it's 8-0. You need a miracle.

I've seen enough.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 09:11 PM
Patterson to play CF. Now we'll catch em.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 09:12 PM
Excessive negatism is hard to avoid when they are playing this bad. Its why I've posted just a few times tonight.

I agree. That's why I'm signing off for awhile. I'm so negative I can't even stand myself.

Cyclone792
06-11-2008, 09:12 PM
Excessive negatism is hard to avoid when they are playing this bad. Its why I've posted just a few times tonight.

Tonight is just a microcosm of what I term "the lost decade" in Reds history.

reds44
06-11-2008, 09:12 PM
I hate Corey Patterson, Dusty Baker, Paul Bako, and I am sure it's only a matter of time before I hate Jerry Hairston.

Uncle.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 09:15 PM
I agree. That's why I'm signing off for awhile. I'm so negative I can't even stand myself.

I feel the same way. And I'm usually an optimist to fault. This team has just beat it out of me this year.

Cyclone792
06-11-2008, 09:15 PM
June 11th, 2008

The first day that Jay Bruce is booed at GABP while wearing a Reds uniform. It only took, what, two weeks?

Get used to it, Jay.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:16 PM
Now 10-0 on an error by Bruce.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:17 PM
Team has now been outscored 17-2 this series and they have the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees coming up. This could be about the ugliest 2 weeks we have ever seen.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 09:17 PM
June 11th, 2008

The first day that Jay Bruce is booed at GABP while wearing a Reds uniform. It only took, what, two weeks?

Get used to it, Jay.

That's sad.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 09:18 PM
Team has now been outscored 17-2 this series and they have the Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees coming up. This could be about the ugliest 2 weeks we have ever seen.

If its bad enough this team might get blown up. I don't know if that's a silver lining or not anymore.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:21 PM
That was a 7 pitch inning. Looper is through 8 on 89 pitches.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 09:25 PM
Nice work by Bray tonight.

Reds Fanatic
06-11-2008, 09:30 PM
Looper gets a complete game on just 98 pitches.

RedlegJake
06-11-2008, 09:31 PM
Ballgame. 1-2-3 9th for Looper. Tip o the hat. He pitched a heckuva game. Ridiculous game for the Reds, though.

Big Klu
06-11-2008, 09:35 PM
Is farmersonly.com really only for farmers?

I would like to hope so.


I assume you are "city folk" because it's pretty clear you just don't get it.

Post Of The Night by top6! :thumbup:

Stormy
06-11-2008, 09:40 PM
Ballgame. 1-2-3 9th for Looper. Tip o the hat. He pitched a heckuva game. Ridiculous game for the Reds, though.

That's only the second time Looper has made it past 7IP in a start since April (his last 9 starts). He pitched well, and you always tip your cap to a guy who just pitched a Complete Game on less than 100 pitches. However, given Looper's precedents, the Reds are a pretty big culprit and should be charged with aiding and abetting, or maybe with impersonating a baseball team. :thumbdown

letsgojunior
06-11-2008, 09:43 PM
Why am I not surprised that Corey Patterson goes to Center field on the double switch? So he can come up early to hit at the first pitch and fly out? You don't need a defensive replacement when it's 8-0. You need a miracle.

I've seen enough.

And Dusty says he's going to put him in the leadoff slot again at some point. I would follow that sentence with the head exploding emoticon but can't seem to find it.

OldXOhio
06-11-2008, 09:52 PM
10-0 loss, at home, following a dud performance the night before, to a division rival, while managing only 3 hits, against Braden Looper....

Dog of an effort, from a lifeless, quitting dog of a team, managed by a toothpick toting dog of a manager.

Instead of embarrassing yourselves and your faithful again tomorrow, just submit a request of forefeiture to the commissioner's office Redlegs and get on with the inevitable.

Spring~Fields
06-11-2008, 10:06 PM
Is Dick Pole out of his league with Cueto and Bailey in the rotation?

I don't think that Harang or Arroyo are doing very well under Dick Pole and they are veterans, I don't think much of him.

RedFanAlways1966
06-11-2008, 10:12 PM
That's only the second time Looper has made it past 7IP in a start since April (his last 9 starts). He pitched well, and you always tip your cap to a guy who just pitched a Complete Game on less than 100 pitches. However, given Looper's precedents, the Reds are a pretty big culprit and should be charged with aiding and abetting, or maybe with impersonating a baseball team. :thumbdown

Yep. 6 out of 11 games in the month of the June the REDS have managed 5 hits or less in a game (3 hits in 4 of those games!). Against starters named Eaton, Myers, Hamels, Tucker, Boggs and Looper. Two of them (Tucker and Boggs) made their 1st starts of the year. The other 4 entered those games with a combined 4.60 ERA.

* 30 of their 67 games (44.8%) the REDS have 7 hits or less in a game.
* 17 of their 67 games (25.4%) the REDS have 5 hits or less in a game.

Futile.

Spring~Fields
06-11-2008, 10:14 PM
You know, Cueto can refine his pitches in the bullpen too. And he wouldn't have to go through the lineup three times refining it.

How is his velocity, is it down like Baileys also?

Spring~Fields
06-11-2008, 10:17 PM
What happened to the Johnny Cueto whose control was a strength? He's all over the place. Not good.

Reminds me of Bailey and his control.

reds44
06-11-2008, 10:36 PM
How is his velocity, is it down like Baileys also?
No, he's throwing about as hard as he has all season. I think his problems are more mechanics than anything.

Big Klu
06-11-2008, 11:22 PM
I don't think that Harang or Arroyo are doing very well under Dick Pole and they are veterans, I don't think much of him.

I think somebody will get fired over this stretch. Either Dick Pole, Brook Jacoby, or Mark Berry.

WVRedsFan
06-11-2008, 11:38 PM
Yep. 6 out of 11 games in the month of the June the REDS have managed 5 hits or less in a game (3 hits in 4 of those games!). Against starters named Eaton, Myers, Hamels, Tucker, Boggs and Looper. Two of them (Tucker and Boggs) made their 1st starts of the year. The other 4 entered those games with a combined 4.60 ERA.

* 30 of their 67 games (44.8%) the REDS have 7 hits or less in a game.
* 17 of their 67 games (25.4%) the REDS have 5 hits or less in a game.

Futile.

I hate to be the last to post in the game thread because no one will see it, but...

Three years ago (2005) this team scored 820 runs. This year they will have to push to get 725--that's a lot of offense to make up. The pitching is better. In 2005 the team ERA was 5.15 and this year's squad is 4.14, but the Reds averaged 5.06 runs per game while the opposition scored 5.48 or a difference of .42 runs more than the good guys a game. This year, the team is averaging 4.49 runs and the opposition is averaging 4.83 or a difference of .36 runs per game. The result is the same. We are on track to win the same number of games in 2008 as we did in 2005--75.

I guess we need offense. Whether you lose by 1 run instead of 3 runs makes no difference at WS time. No matter how optimistic I get, the fact remains. This team has not improved in three years when it comes to winning and losing.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-12-2008, 12:25 AM
10-0 loss, at home, following a dud performance the night before, to a division rival, while managing only 3 hits, against Braden Looper....

Dog of an effort, from a lifeless, quitting dog of a team, managed by a toothpick toting dog of a manager.

Well said.

Topcat
06-12-2008, 03:56 AM
OK sheesh time for me to be all negative. Dusty Baker was a bad bad choice from the get go. I was not pleased when he was hired due to his exploitation of our future arms pitching wise. But sweet Jesus that man was a mistake to hire. I Blame Castellini for that , I love his impatience at the car wreck of the past but, I so wish the team would get a new non recycled heap of garbage manager and we will not due to the turnstyle manager changes that they have made.

Dusty Baker irregardless of what happens going forward was a mistake and I will adamantly stand by that.

Matt700wlw
06-12-2008, 08:48 AM
Couple of more weeks of this dead playing, and Dusty's going to get the ax.

No he's not.

Matt700wlw
06-12-2008, 08:51 AM
Cast won't be the one to fire Dusty--Jocketty would. And if he does, it would be totally understandable--he has the right to have his own guy.

He still has to get approval from Castellini to eat that money.

Dusty is going nowhere at this time.

Krivsky can say he was "his guy" all along. I don't totally buy it.

REDREAD
06-12-2008, 10:43 AM
Why is Herrera pitching in to a 3rd inning? I'd ask if Dusty was stupid, but I already know the answer to that one...

The bullpen is shot. Herra is the mop up man, he's got to eat innings. That's why he (and Maj) were called up.

No point in wasting the good relievers in a game like this.

REDREAD
06-12-2008, 10:52 AM
OK sheesh time for me to be all negative. Dusty Baker was a bad bad choice from the get go. I was not pleased when he was hired due to his exploitation of our future arms pitching wise.

What has Dusty done wrong with the young arms on the Reds?

He had to leave Cueto out there for his 100 pitches to save the bullpen.
Likewise, he had to leave Herra out there too.

The starting rotation hasn't been doing it's job of late, so the bullpen has taken a big hit. It's even worse due to the fact that there is no long man.
If Fogg can get healthy again, maybe we can use him to go 4-5 innings in a game like this. Not that I'm excited about Fogg, but thanks to Ceuto's performance yesterday, the bullpen was taxed again.. It was nice that Herra was able to eat 3 innings though. Good work by him.