6/25 Reds at Jays

[Red in Chicago]

Someone please feel free to post lineups. Thanks.

[RedlegJake]

Jay Bruce rf

Adam Dunn lf

Brandon Phillips 2b

Ken Griffey Jr. dh

Joey Votto 1b

Jeff Keppinger ss

Corey Patterson cf

Javy Valentin 3b

David Ross c

[nate]

Jake beat me to it!

Who wants an Orange Whip?

[Reds Fanatic]

Here are both the lineups:


Reds (35 - 43)
6th in NL Central
Blue Jays (37 - 41)
5th in AL East

Starting Lineup

Name AVG HR RBI SB
1. J Bruce, RF .301 4 13 2
2. A Dunn, LF .221 18 43 1
3. B Phillips, 2B .274 13 43 14
4. K Griffey Jr., DH .245 8 32 0
5. J Votto, 1B .289 12 37 4
6. J Keppinger, SS .318 3 21 2
7. C Patterson, CF .189 6 16 9
8. J Valentin, 3B .218 0 6 0
9. D Ross, C .233 1 7 0

Starting Lineup

Name AVG HR RBI SB
1. M Scutaro, SS .260 2 25 5
2. J Inglett, 2B .313 1 12 2
3. A Rios, RF .280 4 29 15
4. V Wells, CF .280 7 31 2
5. M Stairs, DH .258 8 28 1
6. S Rolen, 3B .276 5 23 4
7. L Overbay, 1B .273 6 30 1
8. G Zaun, C .268 5 16 2
9. A Lind, LF .185 1 2 0

Starting Pitcher
Name W L ERA* WHIP K
A Harang 3 10 4.33 1.34 91

Starting Pitcher
Name W L ERA* WHIP K
R Halladay 8 6 2.90 1.04 93

[OnBaseMachine]

Redszone is running s-l-o-w for me again tonight.

[RedlegJake]

Scutaro SS
Inglett 2B
Rios RF
Wells CF
Stairs DH
Rolen 3B
Overbay 1B
Zaun C
Lind LF

Harang vs. Halladay

[Red in Chicago]

Redszone is running s-l-o-w for me again tonight.

yeah me too...by the time it refreshes, the reds may be down by 6 again:eek:

[Homer Bailey]

I'm on record as saying Halladay will throw a complete game, maybe shutout, maybe one run on a solo homer. Bold I know

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[RedlegJake]

Halladay against the Reds offense is a crime against baseball humanity

[nate]

Slow for me too.

Chat is open!

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[RedlegJake]

Dunn Ks

[Homer Bailey]

Jays vs. Harang:


OPPOSING HITTER AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
David Eckstein 32 13 2 1 0 2 2 1 0.406 0.444 0.531 0.976
Scott Rolen 28 5 3 0 0 3 1 5 0.179 0.233 0.286 0.519
Lyle Overbay 18 9 5 0 0 1 1 3 0.500 0.526 0.778 1.304
Brad Wilkerson 4 2 0 0 1 2 4 2 0.500 0.750 1.250 2.000
Gregg Zaun 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Shannon Stewart 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.667 0.667 0.667 1.333
Vernon Wells 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
John McDonald 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.500 0.500 0.500 1.000
A.J. Burnett 2 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 0.500 0.500 1.500 2.000
Matt Stairs 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000

Reds vs. Halladay:


OPPOSING HITTER AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Jerry Hairston 18 2 0 0 0 0 2 3 0.111 0.200 0.111 0.311
Corey Patterson 16 6 1 0 0 1 0 2 0.375 0.375 0.438 0.813
Jolbert Cabrera 6 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 0.333 0.333 0.333 0.667
Javier Valentin 5 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0.200 0.200 0.400 0.600
Paul Bako 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
Alex Gonzalez 4 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0.000 0.167 0.000 0.167
Adam Dunn 3 2 0 0 1 1 1 1 0.667 0.750 1.667 2.417
Ken Griffey Jr. 3 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0.333 0.333 0.667 1.000
Brandon Phil. 2 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0.500 0.500 1.000 1.500

[Homer Bailey]

Phillips somehow musters up a walk down 0-2

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips walks

[Homer Bailey]

Jr. Homers!

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior homers to right. #602. 2-0 Reds!

[OnBaseMachine]

#602!

The Reds actually score.

[lollipopcurve]

Phillips works a very tough walk off righty Halladay, paving the way for JR.

Phillips looking very good lately.

[Homer Bailey]

Votto flies out to right, but the Reds do some business.

[RedlegJake]

Wow! Junior goes long and Reds lead 2-0

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto flies out to right. 2-0 Reds mid 1st.

[Homer Bailey]

Wow where was that 0-2 pitch. Gets him on the 1-2 pitch though with a K.

[Reds Fanatic]

Scutaro strikes out swinging.

[lollipopcurve]

Scutaro avoiding the bunt to Javy Ks.

[Reds Fanatic]

Inglett walks.

[Big Klu]

Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Adam Dunn - 256
5. Ted Kluszewski - 251
6. George Foster - 244
7. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 204
8. Eric Davis - 203
9. Barry Larkin - 198
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

[Mario-Rijo]

Harang doesn't go 6 today unless he get's lucky. He looks stiff, not following through and everything is up in the zone.

[lollipopcurve]

Harang going nowhere but at the outside corner....

[Reds Fanatic]

That 1-2 pitch looked good.

[OnBaseMachine]

Wow. Where in the world was those last two pitches? They were right on the corner and Ross didn't even have to move his glove yet they were called balls.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rios grounds into a 6-4-3 DP. 2-0 Reds after 1.

[RedsManRick]

Harang gets a gift from CB Bucknor. Runner was clearly safe at 2B.

[Mario-Rijo]

Harang doesn't go 6 today unless he get's lucky. He looks stiff, not following through and everything is up in the zone.

There was a lil luck for him, Inglett looked safe to me on that DP.

[RedsManRick]

I'd really like to see Harang bring that 2-seamer inside against righties. You can see guys like Rios just sit on center-out. It's like he works with only half the plate.

[Cyclone792]

Boy there's been some shaky umpiring so far tonight it looks like. I'm not too thrilled with the strike zone that Harang had in the first inning. He had a few pitches that looked pretty good.

Then I thought Inglett was safe at second base on the DP, though I'm not complaining if that's a blown call, especially if it helps make up for those non-strike calls.

[Reds Fanatic]

Both pitchers threw 21 pitches in the first. Harang's count was driven by at least 3 missed strike calls.

[Reds Fanatic]

Keppinger pops out to 2nd. 1 out.

[lollipopcurve]

everything Halladay throws moves

[NC Reds]

Mr. Loopy Swing needs to go.

[Reds Fanatic]

Patterson flies out to the warning track in center. 2 outs.

[OnBaseMachine]

Boy there's been some shaky umpiring so far tonight it looks like. I'm not too thrilled with the strike zone that Harang had in the first inning. He had a few pitches that looked pretty good.

Then I thought Inglett was safe at second base on the DP, though I'm not complaining if that's a blown call, especially if it helps make up for those non-strike calls.

I thought Phillips went around on that 3-2 check swing...luckily that one worked out for us too.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin grounds out to 2nd. 2-0 Reds mid 2nd.

[HokieRed]

How many at-bats does CP have to get before the Mendoza line gets officially renamed the Patterson line?

[Reds Fanatic]

Wells fouls out to 1st on the first pitch. 1 out.

[OnBaseMachine]

Matt Steps stairs into the batters box.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stairs walks.

[Mario-Rijo]

How many at-bats does CP have to get before the Mendoza line gets officially renamed the Patterson line?

The funny thing is CP had a better AB than Kepp and Valentin.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen lines out to center. 2 outs.

[RedsManRick]

Harang is really having trouble getting stuff down. That used to be his hallmark, and now everything is up. Something is going on with him mechanically. Only Stairs saw a pitch below the belt that inning.

[Reds Fanatic]

Overbay flies out to left. 2-0 Reds after 2.

[Homer Bailey]

Single for Ross.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ross lines a single to center.

[lollipopcurve]

Bruce needs to layoff balls out of the zone -- so far so good

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce doubles off the wall in right. 2nd and 3rd.

[Homer Bailey]

Bruce doubles off the wall Ross to third. That ball was killed.

[RedsManRick]

Bruce rips one off the wall in RF. A little top spin kept it in the yard.

[NC Reds]

Bruce rips a double. Nice.

[lollipopcurve]

big spot for Dunner

[OnBaseMachine]

Bruce doubles off the top of the wall. Just missed a homer by a foot.

[Homer Bailey]

That ball is well out at GABP.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn singles to right. 3-0 Reds. 1st and 3rd.

[OnBaseMachine]

Dunner singles in Ross.

[NC Reds]

Dunn plates a run with a single. Outstanding.

[RedsManRick]

Dunn singles in the run, Bruce held at 3B. Good call holding Bruce. Rios has a freaking cannon. First and third, no out.

Dunn batting ahead of Phillips makes me so happy. Please leave it this way Dusty!

[lollipopcurve]

1st pitch base hit & RBI -- nice AB against Halladay

[RedlegJake]

That ball is well out at GABP.

3X on this roadtrip Bruce has hit one that would be gone at GAB. Nice to see him starting to connect again

[OnBaseMachine]

That ball is well out at GABP.

That sac fly he hit last night would have been a grand slam in Cincy.

[Homer Bailey]

Phillips singles in the run!

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips singles to right. 4-0 Reds! 1st and 2nd.

[lollipopcurve]

excellent 2 strike hitting from Phillips

[Homer Bailey]

Junior smokes it to center but caught and Dunn tags and goes to third.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior flies out to center. 1st and 3rd. 1 out.

[lollipopcurve]

how about Dunn trucking into 3rd? rumblin!

[RedlegJake]

how about Dunn trucking into 3rd? rumblin!

It isn;t that he cares...he was getting bored at second

[Homer Bailey]

FC to 2nd, great job by Phillips to delay the tag to get the run in.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto grounds into a FC at 2nd. Good job by Brandon of avoiding the tag. 5-0 Reds.

[lollipopcurve]

Phillips' baserunning nets a run

[Homer Bailey]

Kepp has the Scott Spezio soul patch goin. He lines out to short.

[NC Reds]

Country Kepp missed a spot on his chin.

[Reds Fanatic]

Keppinger with a soft line out to short. 5-0 Reds mid 3rd.

[RedsManRick]

Keppinger with the soft liner to SS. He hasn't really squared anything up since coming back. He doesn't quite seem to have the same locked in approach I remember.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bloop hit to right for Zaun

[Reds Fanatic]

Lind a .185 hitter homers to left. 5-2 Reds.

[OnBaseMachine]

Nice. Harang gives up a hit to Greg Zaun and homerun to Adam Lind.

Harang needs to be shutdown for a couple weeks. That relief appearance really took a toll on him. I'd shut him down until the ASB.

[Reds Fanatic]

Infield hit for Scutaro

[RedsManRick]

Keppinger with the backhanded play in the hole, followed by showing off his mediocre arm.

[OnBaseMachine]

Harang K's Scutaro on a fastball on the corner but the ump decides to call it a ball. Right on cue he singles one pitch later.

[Reds Fanatic]

Crap. Inglett homers to right. 5-4 Reds.

[RedsManRick]

Ouch. Two weak singles and two HR.

[Homer Bailey]

Wow Inglett Homers. 5-4 Where have you gone Aaron Harang. Notice how other teams fight back when they are down by 5? Inglett's fourth home run of his career.

[CTA513]

This is just what you want to do when you get a 5 run lead.

[OnBaseMachine]

Dusty really screwed up Harang.

[Reds Fanatic]

It has taken 4 batters for Harang to almost completely wipe out the lead.

[Falls City Beer]

Harang has to be injured.

[MrCinatit]

Wow. Watching Harang and Arroyo pitch lately is becoming quite painful. Two years ago, who would bet that both would be doing so horribly.
And, is George Grande announcing for Toronto? He's yelling like both homers just netted them the pennant.

[Mario-Rijo]

Crap. Inglett homers to right. 5-4 Reds.

Everything he throws continues to be up in the zone. :(

[Homer Bailey]

Rios doubles off the wall. What a joke.

[RedsManRick]

2B to deep center. This feels awfully familiar.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rios doubles off the wall in center. That just missed being a homer. The Reds have 2 very big problems in Arroyo and Harang right now.

[Cyclone792]

Two years ago, who would bet that both would be doing so horribly.

After watching what Narron put them through, these weren't long odds at all.

It would actually serve the Reds right to abuse guys like Volquez and Cueto so maybe we'll see the same type of stuff from those guys in two to three years.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wells flies out to right. Rios goes to 3rd. 1 out.

[lollipopcurve]

Harang does not have the velocity on his fastball that he has had in years past.

[Homer Bailey]

Harang has turned into a wuss of a pitcher. He doesn't challenge anyone inside. He picks at that stupid outside corner and nobody is fooled by him anymore. Dick Pole has got to go.

[Cyclone792]

Harang has to be injured.

Building around pitching only works as well as your management in place to protect said pitching.

[Falls City Beer]

After watching what Narron put them through, these weren't long odds at all.

It would actually serve the Reds right to abuse guys like Volquez and Cueto so maybe we'll see the same type of stuff from those guys in two to three years.

So far they haven't abused Vol. and Cueto.

[Cyclone792]

So far they haven't abused Vol. and Cueto.

Give it time.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stairs grounds out to 2nd. Runner holds. 2 outs.

[Screwball]

Harang does not have the velocity on his fastball that he has had in years past.

He's been hitting 90 and 91 consistently, same as he always has. The problem is that he's been leaving the ball up and over the plate - especially in hitter's counts.

[Falls City Beer]

Building around pitching only works as well as your management in place to protect said pitching.

We have no idea if it has been abuse, especially in the case of Harang.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen fouls out to 1st. 5-4 Reds after 3.

[lollipopcurve]

He's been hitting 90 and 91 consistently, same as he always has. The problem is that he's been leaving the ball up and over the plate.

Prior to this year he'd get 93 easy and touch 94-95 on good nights.

[OnBaseMachine]

Walt's first major move should be firing Dusty. Anyone who brings in their ace on one two days rest in a relief appearance is just crazy. Harang hasn't been the same since.

[Reds Fanatic]

Patterson with a bloop hit to right.

[Cyclone792]

We have no idea if it has been abuse, especially in the case of Harang.

Four inning relief stints on short rest after a start - those in which a pitcher's arm, legs, and body are unaccustomed to - constitute abuse.

Dusty Baker let one game in May jeopardize several future starts of the team's well-paid ace. He couldn't just make the decision to use Fogg in long relief in that game to eliminate the high risk.

[Screwball]

Prior to this year he'd get 93 easy and touch 94-95 on good nights.

His fastball would sit around 90, 91 and he'd touch the mid 90s in past years. He's doing the same thing this year.

From the ORG thread on Harang earlier this season:



2005: 90.5 mph
2006: 90.4 mph
2007: 90.1 mph
2008: 89.8 mph


So he's lost an average of 0.7 mph over the last 4 years. Not completely insignificant, but not the problem some are making it out to be IMO.

[lollipopcurve]

Patterson's playing better now -- they're right not to give up on him quite yet. He had a very nice 2nd half last year.

[Falls City Beer]

Harang said that he hasn't felt right since before the relief stint.

[Cyclone792]

Harang said that he hasn't felt right since before the relief stint.

Then why use him in relief that game at all? If true, then that's an even bigger indictment of Dusty.

[Kc61]

Nice. Harang gives up a hit to Greg Zaun and homerun to Adam Lind.

Harang needs to be shutdown for a couple weeks. That relief appearance really took a toll on him. I'd shut him down until the ASB.

Harang just threw a great fastball to Rolen. I guess the relief appearance didn't affect that pitch.

I believe this relief appearance thing is overhyped. Tonight Harang is pitching on five days' rest, plenty of rest. The relief appearance was weeks ago. He hasn't thrown a ton of innings since then.

Shut him down till the ASB? I don't see what that will accomplish. He'll probably then spend three weeks getting the rust off.

By the way, the outing before the relief appearance was short and bad, which is why Dusty viewed Harang as available for the relief outing. I guess he was bad that night in anticipation of the relief outing.

Harang is a terrific pitcher having an off year. He's probably doing something differently than usual, some mechanical thing. He's always allowed some long balls and has had bad stretches before. He's not being tattooed like Arroyo, just subpar.

I doubt it's the relief outing.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[Homer Bailey]

Glad we got JV's bat in the lineup at 3B. Strikeout.

[OnBaseMachine]

According to scouts Harang's mechanics have changed since that relief stint. It's no coincidence.

[Cyclone792]

Heck, if Harang hasn't been feeling right for a month then why the heck has he been pitching at all?

It's ridiculous.

[Reds Fanatic]

Patterson easily steals 2nd.

[RedsManRick]

Ah, speed at the bottom of the lineup. It makes so much more sense than risking those outs in front of good hitters.

[RedsManRick]

Heck, if Harang hasn't been feeling right for a month then why the heck has he been pitching at all?

It's ridiculous.

Win now?

[Falls City Beer]

Then why use him in relief that game at all? If true, then that's an even bigger indictment of Dusty.

He said that he didn't have "the touch." Not that he was hurting.

And there were no options left to him than use Harang--probably shouldn't have used him as long as he did, but surrendering a game would have gotten him canned.

[Kc61]

According to scouts Harang's mechanics have changed since that relief stint. It's no coincidence.

I read that article and I think it is, well, very doubtful. Some unnamed scout supposedly makes some comment.

It defies common sense to believe that the one outing messed up Harang for weeks. I just do not buy it.

[lollipopcurve]

good AB by Ross

[Reds Fanatic]

Ross walks. 1st and 2nd.

[flyer85]

strike 2 call to Ross was not even close

[Homer Bailey]

Bruce bunts?!!??!?

[RedsManRick]

Bruce bunts. I HATE Dusty Baker (as a manager). The guy is slugging .500 and ripped a double off the wall in his last AB. There's already an out in the inning, so you aren't setting up a sac fly. Ridiculous.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce bunts into a 1-6 FC. I don't agree with having Bruce bunt at all there.

[flyer85]

Jay ... NOOOOOOO

[Homer Bailey]

If that was a Dusty decision then it proves he knows nothing about managing a baseball team.

[dougdirt]

Dusty Baker is a terrible manager.

[flyer85]

Bruce bunts into a 1-6 FC. I don't agree with having Bruce bunt at all there.with one out he did that on his own

[RFS62]

That's it for me. Bunting Bruce there is the last straw.

[Kc61]

How does anyone know Baker told him to bunt?

Sometimes a batter gets an idea. In this case, not a very good one.

[OnBaseMachine]

I read that article and I think it is, well, very doubtful. Some unnamed scout supposedly makes some comment.

It defies common sense to believe that the one outing messed up Harang for weeks. I just do not buy it.

Let's see here. Starting pitchers aren't sued to pitching on two days rest like Harang did that day. You don't think that can mess a pitcher up? Ok.

What the heck was Bruce doing bunting?

[NC Reds]

Dunn was unlucky there.

[Homer Bailey]

Dunn lines out. Gr.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn lines out to right. 5-4 Reds mid 4th.

[Homer Bailey]

Dunn looks totally different in the 2 hole. Different in a good way.

[RFS62]

How does anyone know Baker told him to bunt?

Sometimes a batter gets an idea. In this case, not a very good one.

Fair enough. But if Dusty called that bunt, we're beyond doomed.

[Cyclone792]

He said that he didn't have "the touch." Not that he was hurting.

And there were no options left to him than use Harang--probably shouldn't have used him as long as he did, but surrendering a game would have gotten him canned.

There were no options left to use because the manager made a boneheaded decision earlier in the game to waste his long man, a long man that few people care about if he ends up injured. Instead, he elects to risk his $30 million ace.

[Cyclone792]

Win now?

I prefer the polar opposite of the Al Davis motto: Just lose, baby.

[RedsManRick]

There were no options left to use because the manager made a boneheaded decision earlier in the game to waste his long man, a long man that few people care about if he ends up injured. Instead, he elects to risk his $30 million ace.

Come now Cyclone. Fogg wasn't wasted. He was used because Dusty was "going for win". Duh.

[Reds Fanatic]

Overbay grounds out to short.

[Reds Fanatic]

Zaun flies out to center. 2 outs.

[WVRedsFan]

That's it for me. Bunting Bruce there is the last straw.

Yep. Me too. If bruce did that on his own, he should be benched with one out. If Dusty ordered that, he should be fired. It ridiculous enough batting Bruce leadoff and have him bunt? Good grief.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lind flies out to center. A 5 pitch inning. 5-4 Reds after 4.

[lollipopcurve]

I think Bruce was on his own there, bunting for a hit.

[RedsManRick]

Nice, short inning for Harang. 66 pitches after 4. Reasonable shot at 7 IP.

[Falls City Beer]

It was pretty obviously a poor decision to use Harang in that outing. But I don't see how helpful it is to attempt to confirm your bias against Dusty by seeing every unfortunate thing that happens to the Reds as his fault.

[OnBaseMachine]

Remember earlier when Bruce was first called up he was like 3-for-3 in one game and Dusty had him bunting in his next atbat? The guy knows no boundaries. He's one of the worst managers I've ever seen.

[lollipopcurve]

There were no options left to use because the manager made a boneheaded decision earlier in the game to waste his long man, a long man that few people care about if he ends up injured. Instead, he elects to risk his $30 million ace.

Don't forget Volquez also threw in that game.

[Reds Fanatic]

Brandon grounds out to short on the first pitch. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

[Homer Bailey]

Reds offense going into its usual "score early then shutdown" mode.

[Cyclone792]

It was pretty obviously a poor decision to use Harang in that outing. But I don't see how helpful it is to attempt to confirm your bias against Dusty by seeing every unfortunate thing that happens to the Reds as his fault.

Well that's the same tune people sung about Narron. Now Narron's horses stink and the team continues to stink, in no small part because Narron's horses now stink. It's the same cycle.

Me? I prefer to see that cycle end.

[Cyclone792]

Don't forget Volquez also threw in that game.

Also dumb, whether there any ill effects or not.

[oneupper]

Reds offense going into its usual "score early then shutdown" mode.

Sorry, don't recall the "score early" part. :D

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto strikes out looking. An 8 pitch inning. 5-4 Reds mid 5th.

[RedsManRick]

Did I just hear Halladay called Hentgen?

[Falls City Beer]

Well that's the same tune people sung about Narron. Now Narron's horses stink and the team continues to stink, in no small part because Narron's horses now stink. It's the same cycle.

Me? I prefer to see that cycle end.

The thing is is that Narron DID abuse his pitchers, repeatedly. Left them in for laborsome inning after laborsome inning.

There was a pattern in Narron's case.

[lollipopcurve]

3rd time through the order coming up for Harang -- let's see what's got

[Cyclone792]

The thing is is that Narron DID abuse his pitchers, repeatedly. Left them in for laborsome inning after laborsome inning.

There was a pattern in Narron's case.

And the Reds are still paying for it.

Good reason for them to start protecting their pitchers.

[Kc61]

Fair enough. But if Dusty called that bunt, we're beyond doomed.

Agree. The spot was so wrong for a bunt, I'm guessing a missed sign.

[Reds Fanatic]

Scutaro strikes out looking. 1 out.

[Screwball]

Wow, Harang actually got a call on the outside of the plate.

[Kc61]

Wow, Harang actually got a call on the outside of the plate.

Ump felt bad for Harang because of the San Diego relief outing.

[jesusfan]

single by Inglett...

[lollipopcurve]

joltin joe inglett -- Harang can't get him out

[Reds Fanatic]

Inglett singles to left.

[lollipopcurve]

watch out for Rios here...

[Screwball]

Yikes, I can't remember the last stretch of games where Harang has so consistently left his breaking pitches hanging. Tonight just about every one is up in the zone, and getting absolutely smoked by a bad offensive team.

[OnBaseMachine]

Dusty Baker is famous for abusing pitchers. Look at some of the pitch counts for Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, and Carlos Zambrano from 2003-2006. Dusty should be in jail for abuse right now.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rios flies out to the edge of the warning track in right. 2 outs.

[jesusfan]

2 down... Rios Flies to Jay...

[jesusfan]

I really really want Fresno to win the College World Series... They are a treat to watch and show exactly why college baseball is so fun to watch! It should be much more nationally recognized on tv....

[Reds Fanatic]

Wells singles to center. 1st and 3rd.

[jesusfan]

Vern singles.. 1st and 3rd...

[Red in Chicago]

maybe it's my new tv, but harang's looking a bit heavier to me...anyone else?

[Screwball]

Wells singles to center. 1st and 3rd.

Tough one there. Harang threw a good slider down and away and Wells reached out and managed to bloop it into center. Just gotta tip your hat to Vernon and get Stairs out.

[jesusfan]

Astroturf is just rediculous!

[jesusfan]

3! 5-4 Reds after 5...

[Mario-Rijo]

Yikes, I can't remember the last stretch of games where Harang has so consistently left his breaking pitches hanging. Tonight just about every one is up in the zone, and getting absolutely smoked by a bad offensive team.

Notice they are sitting on the breaking balls also!

[Reds Fanatic]

Stairs strikes out looking. 3 Ks. 5-4 Reds after 5.

[jesusfan]

Harang is at 97 pitches and will probably pitch one more inning...

[Reds Fanatic]

Through 5:

97 pitches for Harang
81 pitches for Halladay

[lollipopcurve]

great job by Harang against Stairs -- one more inning for him, max -- if he gets in trouble in the 6th, Baker should have a righty and a lefty ready

[Mario-Rijo]

Harang is at 97 pitches and will probably pitch one more inning...

You know it's true, heck Dusty may even try to squeeze 7 out of him. There are no excuses for Dusty B(re)aker (of pitchers).

[Reds Fanatic]

Keppinger singles to right.

[reds44]

Dusty Baker is famous for abusing pitchers. Look at some of the pitch counts for Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, and Carlos Zambrano from 2003-2006. Dusty should be in jail for abuse right now.
Yeah, it really seemed to hurt Volquez. Harang was bad before San Diego.

[Homer Bailey]

Oh those nutty announcers. Such free spirits.

[Reds Fanatic]

Patterson flies out to the warning track in right. 1 out.

[Screwball]

Patterson flies out to the warning track in right. 1 out.

Pretty good power for a pitcher.

[OnBaseMachine]

Yeah, it really seemed to hurt Volquez. Harang was bad before San Diego.

He's allowed to have a bad start every now and then. Unfortunately Dusty screwed him up and turned one bad outing into a horrible month and a half stretch.

A question for those of you who continue to defend Dusty bringing in Harang and Volquez: If the Reds are winning by a run or two later you would have no problem giving Burton the night off and bringing in Volquez or Cueto for an inning?

[Cyclone792]

Harang's batter's faced per strikeout:

2006 - full season: 4.60
2007 - full season: 4.35
2008 - before relief app: 4.87
2008 - after relief app: 6.95

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin singles to right. 1st and 2nd.

[lollipopcurve]

Javy tore the cover off that ball!

[Kc61]

Yeah, it really seemed to hurt Volquez. Harang was bad before San Diego.

I'm encouraged by Harang tonight. He had a bad inning but threw very well last inning, great pitching to Stairs just like the old Harang.

When his mechanics are right must be tough for hitters to figure out what's coming with Harang. Repeatable delivery. Long stride to home plate.

He did have a bad inning, and he's not quite back yet, but I'm not worried about Harang. Arroyo, a different story.

[jesusfan]

Yeah, it really seemed to hurt Volquez. Harang was bad before San Diego.

Harang had a 3.1 ERA before San Diego... lookie here... The thing that strikes me is that Harang threw 267 pitches in 8 days!!! From May 17th-May 25th

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_gamebygamelog.jsp?cid=mlb&playerID=421685&statType=2

[Reds Fanatic]

Ross lines out to right. 2 outs.

[reds44]

He's allowed to have a bad start every now and then. Unfortunately Dusty screwed him up and turned one bad outing into a horrible month and a half stretch.

A question for those of you who continue to defend Dusty bringing in Harang and Volquez: If the Reds are winning by a run or two later you would have no problem giving Burton the night off and bringing in Volquez or Cueto for an inning?
:lol:

Dude, seriously what are you talking about? He brought Harang and Volquez in when he had nobody left in his bullpen in an 18 inning game. Yes, it was his fault for how he used Fogg. Yes, he is a bad manager.

Harang's 2nd to last start vs. Boston he went 7 innings, gave up 1 run, and K'd 7. Arm was feeling fine there.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce strikes out looking. 5-4 Reds mid 6th.

[RedsManRick]

It'd be nice if Harang got those extra 3 inches.

[OnBaseMachine]

Hopefully Harang can give us another scoreless inning and hand this game over to Cueto or Volquez. ;)

[Cyclone792]

Harang's batter's faced per home run:

2006 full season: 35.46
2007 full season: 33.86
2008 before relief app: 30.70
2008 after relief app: 21.86

[Reds Fanatic]

98 pitches for Halladay

[OnBaseMachine]

That strike three on Bruce has been a ball for Harang all night.

[OnBaseMachine]

Harang's batter's faced per home run:

2006 full season: 35.46
2007 full season: 33.86
2008 before relief app: 30.70
2008 after relief app: 21.86

Thank you for the facts. Hopefully people will read these.

[reds44]

Thank you for the facts. Hopefully people will read these.
Could be because of the relief apperance, could be because of something else.

[lollipopcurve]

Javy almost got a chance there, shoot

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen flies out to right.

[Screwball]

Javy almost got a chance there, shoot

I'm surprised nobody's dropped a bunt down the 3rd base line yet.

[Mario-Rijo]

:lol:

Dude, seriously what are you talking about? He brought Harang and Volquez in when he had nobody left in his bullpen in an 18 inning game. Yes, it was his fault for how he used Fogg. Yes, he is a bad manager.

Harang's 2nd to last start vs. Boston he went 7 innings, gave up 1 run, and K'd 7. Arm was feeling fine there.

Dude even a not so sharp Harang can handle a lineup where the most feared hitters are Drew and Youkilis. No Manny, No Papi not even Varitek.

[lollipopcurve]

if he puts Zaun on, I'd pull him

[Reds Fanatic]

Overbay walks. 106 pitches for Harang.

[reds44]

Dude even a not so sharp Harang can handle a lineup where the most feared hitters are Drew and Youkilis.
The Blue Jays have one of the worst offenses in the leauge, and Manny played that night.

[Red in Chicago]

Dude even a not so sharp Harang can handle a lineup where the most feared hitters are Drew and Youkilis. No Manny, No Papi not even Varitek.

but drew and youk are having better years ops wise than manny and papi ;)

[Mario-Rijo]

The Blue Jays have one of the worst offenses in the leauge, and Manny played that night.

A gimpy Manny maybe, although I'll give that one to ya. But the Jays have good bats in there but have struggled.

[RedlegJake]

SD didn't help but Aaron was struggling with command before then. Something is off mechanically - he's up in the zone way more than he was in April. I call the SD thing a screwup on Dusty but it isn't what's ailing Harang.

[Screwball]

874 pitch AB here for Zaun...

[jesusfan]

Harang at 118 pitches

[jesusfan]

pop to Kepp... 2 down

[Reds Fanatic]

Zaun pops out to short. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Harang is done at 118 pitches.

[jesusfan]

Harang gone... Bray coming in to face Lind...

[lollipopcurve]

i like going to Bray here

[Kc61]

Dusty shouldn't have let Harang throw so many pitches.

Dusty shouldn't go to the bullpen middle of the inning, should let Harang finish.

Only three ks for Harang tonight, he's still not quite himself.

[Cyclone792]

Dusty shouldn't have let Harang throw so many pitches.

Dusty shouldn't go to the bullpen middle of the inning, should let Harang finish.


Dusty needs to lose his documentation that will allow him back in the country after the Toronto series.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lind walks. 1st and 2nd.

[Kc61]

Walk by Bray after long at bat. The Jays are very good at fouling off pitches to prolong at bats. Would like to see the Reds be able to do that.

[jesusfan]

Bray walks Lind... Weathers in to face Scutaro.. I actually like the defensive change right here....

[Homer Bailey]

Micro managing by Dusty in the 6th. Make it a double switch. Does he not know they're in the AL?

[Chip R]

Oh, God, Dusty's going to do a double switch! :eek:

[Reds Fanatic]

Double switch. Janish to short. Keppinger to 3rd. Weathers pitching.

[Reds Fanatic]

A double switch with no real purpose. Dusty apparently doesn't understand what the DH does.

[NC Reds]

Dusty gets his double switch fix.

[reds44]

If it's a double switch, doesn't that mean the pitcher bats?

Otherwise, it's not a double switch. Just two seperate switches lol.

[jesusfan]

I hope Kepp makes a diving play that Valentin would've never gotten to make everyone happy about the double switch...

[Kc61]

A double switch with no real purpose. Dusty apparently doesn't understand what the DH does.


Maybe with men on base in one run game he didn't want Javier Valentin playing third.

[jesusfan]

Stormy goes to 3-1 on Scut...

[OnBaseMachine]

Maybe with men on base in one run game he didn't want Javier Valentin playing third.

He shouldn't have been playing there in the first place.

[RedsManRick]

I know Weathers' nickname is Stormy, but I see him and can't help but think Shrek.

Dave Ross costs the Reds a run. Uggh.