Reds vs Padres 7/23/08 -- Votto batting behind Javy...

[Matt700wlw]

Jay Bruce cf
Jeff Keppinger ss
Ken Griffey Jr. rf
Brandon Phillips 2b
Adam Dunn lf
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Javier Valentin c
Joey Votto 1b
Bronson Arroyo

[cumberlandreds]

Padres lead going to bottom of 2nd 1-0. The only run was a homer by Jody Gerut in the first.

[cumberlandreds]

Dunn K's looking. one out in the Reds 2nd

[Degenerate39]

Javy and Votto should be switched around.

[cumberlandreds]

EdE K's. Two away.

[cumberlandreds]

Single by Javy.

[flyer85]

Dusty seems to one-up himself on a daily basis.

[Matt700wlw]

1-0 after 2

[cumberlandreds]

Votto bounces out 1-3. 1-0 Padres after two.

[rotnoid]

Why not flip Votto and Arroyo in this line up? It's the chic thing to do in the Central these days and makes more sense to me than Javy, then Votto.

[cumberlandreds]

Hundley K's. one out in the 3rd for the Pads.

[cumberlandreds]

Maddox grounds out to Javy for the 2nd out.

[cumberlandreds]

Maddox only needs three more K's to be in the all time top 10. He would replace Phil Niekro in the 10th spot.

[cumberlandreds]

Gerut a bloop single to left.

[cumberlandreds]

Fly out to RF end the inning. 1-0 Friars in the third.

[Matt700wlw]

Maddox only needs three more K's to be in the all time top 10. He would replace Phil Niekro in the 10th spot.

He should exceed that with ease against these hackers.

[nate]

Chat is open!

[cumberlandreds]

Arroyo grounds out to third on a nice play by Kouzmanoff.

[cumberlandreds]

bruce pops out to Giles. Two away.

[cumberlandreds]

Kep grounds out to third to end the third. 1-0 Padres. Could this be a midday quickie?

[cumberlandreds]

Giles grounds out to Votto.

[cumberlandreds]

A. Gonzalez K's. Two away in the 4th.

[cumberlandreds]

Fly out to RF ends the 4th. 1-0 Padres.

[Matt700wlw]

Cris Collinsworth at the ballgame today...

[cumberlandreds]

Junior flys out to CF. One gone in the Reds 4th.

[cumberlandreds]

Phillips bounces out to Maddox. Two away.

[Matt700wlw]

Greg Maddux, yet again, is painting a picture with pitching. He's like DaVinci.

This guy could pitch forever.

[flyer85]

express baseball today

[redsfaninbsg]

How long did that half inning last? Two minutes?

[cumberlandreds]

Dunn bounces out to 1st. End of four,Padres 1-0. This way too easy for Maddox.

[redsfaninbsg]

4 innings in 55 minutes so far today.

[cumberlandreds]

Headley grounds out to Phillips.

[Reds Fanatic]

Maddux is through 4 innings on only 42 pitches.

[cumberlandreds]

Greene K's. Two out.

[cumberlandreds]

Hundley singles. Maddox singles and Bruce misplays the ball. Hundley to third.

[Reds Fanatic]

According to Gameday the error was on Junior on that play.

[redsfaninbsg]

Was it Bruce or Jr? The gamecast I've got says KGJ made an error.

[cumberlandreds]

Gerut lines out to Dunn to end the two out rally. 1-0 Padres half way through this one.

[redsfaninbsg]

In 63 minutes we've played 1/2 of a baseball game today.

[Reds Fanatic]

72 pitches through 5 for Arroyo.

[cumberlandreds]

Was it Bruce or Jr? The gamecast I've got says KGJ made an error.

It must have been Junior. I don't think Marty was paying attention to the game when the play happened.

[Matt700wlw]

Junior touched it, so it goes to him.

[Matt700wlw]

Greg Maddux contiunes to weave his craft

[cumberlandreds]

Pop out to 2nd. One away with Javy coming to bat.

[Matt700wlw]

:valentin: 5th career HR against Maddux!!

:jump:

[cumberlandreds]

Javy HOMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[redsfaninbsg]

Javy ties it up.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin homers! Tie game 1-1.

[klw]

:valentin: 5th career HR against Maddux!!

:jump:

I guess Javy does hit maddux well.

per Fay

Valentin hits Maddux well. That's why he's in there.

[cumberlandreds]

Votto bounces back to Maddox, two away.

[Big Klu]

Javier Valentin owns Greg Maddux. That will be a nice thing that he can tell his grandkids some day.

[kaldaniels]

For those keeping score at home...

Quality Starts this year...

Volquez 14 (lack of going 6 innings early on hurts him here)
Cueto and Harang 11
Arroyo 9 (hopefully gets number 10 today)

Didn't bother looking at the #5 pitchers, just the ones in the rotation all year.

[cumberlandreds]

Arroyo singles into lf center.

[RichRed]

I guess Javy does hit maddux well.

per Fay

Dusty's a genius. :D

[cumberlandreds]

The Bruce singles,Arroyo to 2nd.

[cumberlandreds]

WP both runners advance. Things are suddenly coming apart for Maddox.

[kaldaniels]

So is this thread titled so to highlight the excellence of the lineup??? :D

[cumberlandreds]

Kep flies out to CF. Reds tie it up at one after five.

[Reds Fanatic]

Maddux finally had to work that inning after throwing 42 pitches in the first 4 innnings he threw 24 that inning for a total of 66 through 5.

[cumberlandreds]

Line out to RF by Gonzalez. Two away.

[Matt700wlw]

Kouzmanoff hits one out....and that's a 2 run shot.

Marty can't believe that ball made it out of the park

[CTA513]

Kouzmanoff hits one out....and that's a 2 run shot.

Marty can't believe that ball made it out of the park


Reds tie it up, Reds pitchers give it back.

[cumberlandreds]

Kouzmanoff Homers to give the Padres a 3-1 lead. Marty is stunned. I think we can give Kouzmanoff the title of a Red killer.

[Reds Fanatic]

Kouzmanoff Homers to give the Padres a 3-1 lead. Marty is stunned. I think we can give Kouzmanoff the title of a Red killer.
That is now 4 HRs and 9 RBIs for Kouzmanoff in 6 games against the Reds this year.

[cumberlandreds]

Griffey K's and Phillips singles to start the Reds 6th

[cumberlandreds]

That is now 4 HRs and 9 RBIs for Kouzmanoff in 6 games against the Reds this year.

That is Bill Hall like numbers. :(

[cumberlandreds]

Phillips steals 2nd.

[Matt700wlw]

Phillips gets hung out to dry, and the Padres show why they are the worst team in baseball.

They screw up the pickle, and Phillips gets to third

[cumberlandreds]

Phillips really lucky. He was picked off but Greene dropped the ball. Phillips is now at 3rd.

[Matt700wlw]

Adam Dunn plays fundamental baseball, makes contact, and Phillips scores!

[cumberlandreds]

Dunn singles by the shift and Phillips scores. 3-2 Padres.

[cumberlandreds]

Maddox is done. Pads changing pitchers.

[Matt700wlw]

Maddux's day is done, and possibly his final trot off of the GABP mound forever.

[CTA513]

Maddux is done after only throwing 75 pitches?

[Matt700wlw]

:ede:

:jump:

[cumberlandreds]

EdE Homers! 4-3 Reds!!!!!!!!

[Matt700wlw]

Maddux is done after only throwing 75 pitches?

If he's done, he's done. I believe it's his call these days.

[durl]

Maddux is done after only throwing 75 pitches?

I thought that to be strange, as well.

[cumberlandreds]

Javy flies out to deep LF.

[cumberlandreds]

Votto GO to the SS. 4-3 Reds after six.

[NJReds]

Encarnacion is on some kind of tear. He was one of the guys I came away really impressed with when I was in town for the Mets series. Votto is the other. It's such a different perspective when you get to see players in person.

[cumberlandreds]

I thought that to be strange, as well.

He wishes he had stayed in. Meredith got hit hard.

[CTA513]

The last time Maddux won a game was on May 10th.

[cumberlandreds]

Greene K's.

[cumberlandreds]

Hundley K's two away.

[cumberlandreds]

Phillips makes another great play to end the Padres 7th!

[Reds Fanatic]

That is 102 pitches for Arroyo through 7.

[Matt700wlw]

That glove gets another coat of gold on it on a daily basis.

[Strikes Out Looking]

It appears Bronson is batting.

[Matt700wlw]

Bronson with his second hit of the day

[cumberlandreds]

Arroyo a bunt single to start the Reds 7th.

[cumberlandreds]

Bruce K's looking.

[Reds Fanatic]

Apparently Arroyo is staying in despite being over 100 pitches.

[Reds Fanatic]

Single for Keppinger. 1st and 2nd.

[Matt700wlw]

Junior just missed that one

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior doubles in a run. 5-3 Reds!

[cumberlandreds]

Kep singles to RF.

[Matt700wlw]

Apparently Arroyo is staying in despite being over 100 pitches.

Bullpen still pretty spent...

[NJReds]

Apparently Arroyo is staying in despite being over 100 pitches.

He doesn't seem to be laboring. Why not let him pitch. The bullpen has to be worn out from all the pitching they've been doing lately.

The Mets took out Johan Santana last night after 8 innings and 105 pitches, and he was cruising. Then the bullpen gave up 6 runs in 9th. Since when did 100 pitches become too many?

[kaldaniels]

Have someone get warmed up, let BA go 120 pitches. Anything wrong with that?

A big inning here changes everything if it happens.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior is now 10 for 26 (.385) on this homestand

[jesusfan]

Bases jacked for Dunner!

[Matt700wlw]

Blowing this game wide open would be HUGE for the bullpen with an off day tomorrow.

[Matt700wlw]

:dunn:

:jump:


KIND OF LIKE THAT!!!

[Cyclone792]

Sign that man.

[jesusfan]

GRAND SLAM!!!!

[kaldaniels]

Send out Coffey.

[cumberlandreds]

GRAND SLAMMMER by DUNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!:beerme:

[RichRed]

I lose track - is that clutch?

[Matt700wlw]

Send out Coffey.

I would...let everybody else get 2 days of rest.

[Reds Fanatic]

Grand slam for Dunn. 9-3 Reds!!!

[Matt700wlw]

Dunn is now tied with Ryan Howard for the NL lead in HRs.

[Big Klu]

Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Adam Dunn - 267
5. Ted Kluszewski - 251
6. George Foster - 244
7. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 208
8. Eric Davis - 203
9. Barry Larkin - 198
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

[Strikes Out Looking]

I'd like to see a complete game from Bronson.

And I think I'm coming around on Dunn with his performance today (I'm more impressed with his hit to the left side than the grand slam actually).

[Matt700wlw]

I'd like to see a complete game from Bronson.

And I think I'm coming around on Dunn with his performance today (I'm more impressed with his hit to the left side than the grand slam actually).

Beat the shift...which is good to see.

He needs to keep doing that.

[kaldaniels]

I'd like to see a complete game from Bronson.

And I think I'm coming around on Dunn with his performance today (I'm more impressed with his hit to the left side than the grand slam actually).

I'd love a complete game and I hate the obsession with pitch counts. But it is not like BA is working on a masterpiece. Get him out of there and let Coffey get some innings. If Coffey blows it, release him.

[jesusfan]

29 HR 68 RBI... Sure looks good... I guess he's boosting that trade value, either that or is free agent value...

[cumberlandreds]

Javy singles to keep things going.

[MasonBuzz3]

29 HR 68 RBI... Sure looks good... I guess he's boosting that trade value, either that or is free agent value...

but he only hits .220 and he doesn't love baseball........

[NJReds]

I'd love a complete game and I hate the obsession with pitch counts. But it is not like BA is working on a masterpiece. Get him out of there and let Coffey get some innings. If Coffey blows it, release him.

Obviously it's a different situation at 9-3 then it was at 4-3. I'd let Coffey go an inning or two as well.

[kaldaniels]

29 HR 68 RBI... Sure looks good... I guess he's boosting that trade value, either that or is free agent value...

This may be an ignorant post, but to my untrained eye, Dunn has looked better at the plate in the past month or two than I may have ever seen him. And I'm not talking OPS or any stat, just going up there and looking good at the plate and having some good AB's.

[NJReds]

but he only hits .220 and he doesn't love baseball........

It drives me nuts when I see people write that he doesn't like baseball.

I can deal with writers/broadcasters who say that he strikes out a lot, doesn't hit for average, etc. Although it's a closeminded way of looking at statistics, it's factual.

But to say a guy that you never met or talked to "doesn't like the game" is just subjective and irresponsible.

[Matt700wlw]

This may be an ignorant post, but to my untrained eye, Dunn has looked better at the plate in the past month or two than I may have ever seen him. And I'm not talking OPS or any stat, just going up there and looking good at the plate and having some good AB's.

April - awful

May - awesome

June - pretty bad

July - looking solid again


We're seeing what we usually see....when he's on, he tears it up...when he's not, he's flat bad.

When it's all said and done, he'll be around his 40/100/100 mark as he usually is.

[Matt700wlw]

Affeldt in...

[Cyclone792]

We're seeing what we usually see....when he's on, he tears it up...when he's not, he's flat bad.

Not exactly. If you add up Dunn's totals for April and June, his on-base percentage is still higher than Brandon Phillips' on-base percentage for the entire season.

Phillips is an example of a guy who's flat bad when he's not on. Dunn at least still gets on base at a solid clip due to his walks, which means Dunn's slump proof in the sense that he's still producing some offense.

[cumberlandreds]

Affeldt in to pitch.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ross is in to catch

[kaldaniels]

Why is Coffey on the roster if you are going to put Affeldt in now?

[MasonBuzz3]

It drives me nuts when I see people write that he doesn't like baseball.

I can deal with writers/broadcasters who say that he strikes out a lot, doesn't hit for average, etc. Although it's a closeminded way of looking at statistics, it's factual.

But to say a guy that you never met or talked to "doesn't like the game" is just subjective and irresponsible.

i hear that, Dunn is a guaranteed 40 HR, 100 R, 100 RBI, 100 BB each year...who cares if he likes baseball or not. I remember hearing that MLB's story of the year down in Texas say that baseball is boring, who cares

[RichRed]

It drives me nuts when I see people write that he doesn't like baseball.

I can deal with writers/broadcasters who say that he strikes out a lot, doesn't hit for average, etc. Although it's a closeminded way of looking at statistics, it's factual.

But to say a guy that you never met or talked to "doesn't like the game" is just subjective and irresponsible.

I think MasonBuzz3 was being facetious.

[Matt700wlw]

Not exactly. If you add up Dunn's totals for April and June, his on-base percentage is still higher than Brandon Phillips' on-base percentage for the entire season.

Phillips is an example of a guy who's flat bad when he's not on. Dunn at least still gets on base at a solid clip due to his walks, which means Dunn's slump proof in the sense that he's still producing some offense.

He's always been good at getting walks, even if the rest of his offense is in the tank.

[durl]

but he only hits .220 and he doesn't love baseball........

...and did this Grand Slam REALLY matter? I mean, the Reds already had the lead so it wasn't important. ;)

[Chip R]

Why is Coffey on the roster if you are going to put Affeldt in now?


Perhaps Coffey pitches the 9th.

[CTA513]

6 run lead and Affedlt walks the .174 hitting Rodriguez on 5 pitches.

[Matt700wlw]

Even Marty feels the Street for Dunn things is rather silly....he thinks Peter Gammons started it :D

They're talking about it now....ESPN apparantely is throwing it against the wall, too...



Thom says if the option is lose Dunn for draft picks (knowing the Reds history with draft picks) or trade Dunn for Street, he'd consider it.

[nate]

He's always been good at getting walks, even if the rest of his offense is in the tank.

I'm not sure the .545 SLG or 29 HR are really in the tank.

[Cyclone792]

Perhaps Coffey pitches the 9th.

Unless Affeldt blows up and gives up a few runs, Coffey needs to pitch the 9th. This is a perfect opportunity to pitch a mopup reliever and rest the high leverage guys.

[kaldaniels]

Perhaps Coffey pitches the 9th.

I'm betting he will. But still, if I'm Dusty I hand him the ball to start the eighth and tell him, "you're finishing it". Thats just me.

[MasonBuzz3]

...and did this Grand Slam REALLY matter? I mean, the Reds already had the lead so it wasn't important. ;)

it was sort of a rally killer if you ask me

[Reds Fanatic]

Now a passed ball by Ross.

[Reds Fanatic]

Giles singles in a run. 9-4 Reds.

[Chip R]

Now a passed ball by Ross.


Oh, how I long for the days of a catcher who can actually catch the ball.

[kaldaniels]

Gameday is showing it as an earned run, but it should be unearned, right?

[cumberlandreds]

A double play gets Affeldt out of a jam. 9-4 Reds in the 8th.
It's about time for me to go. It should an easy one for you guys to hold for me.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez grounds into a DP. 9-4 Reds mid 8th.

[CrackerJack]

Oh, how I long for the days of a catcher who can actually catch the ball.

Agree, it's one of the real issues with this team and it's inability to win close games or play more consistently over a season's time. They can't go another season and not try to find a better answer there.

[cumberlandreds]

Gameday is showing it as an earned run, but it should be unearned, right?

It is unearned.

[MrCinatit]

April - awful
May - awesome
June - pretty bad
July - looking solid again
We're seeing what we usually see....when he's on, he tears it up...when he's not, he's flat bad.
When it's all said and done, he'll be around his 40/100/100 mark as he usually is.

I notice a trend.
Let Dunn play on months that end in "y", let him sit the other months.
So, let us hope he does well in Augusty, Septembery and Octobery.

[Kc61]

Unless Affeldt blows up and gives up a few runs, Coffey needs to pitch the 9th. This is a perfect opportunity to pitch a mopup reliever and rest the high leverage guys.

I would use Maj. Save Coffey for the losses. Reds haven't had a clear losing game of late, which is great, but they will.

Maj threw great last night, let him do it again.

[Matt700wlw]

Dunn's HR was around 385 feet....weak ;)

[MasonBuzz3]

Dunn's HR was around 385 feet....weak ;)

must have just missed it....anyone think he can get 50 HR this year, maybe take a shot at Foster's mark?

[NJReds]

I think MasonBuzz3 was being facetious.

I wasn't really responding to MasonBuzz ... I understood his post.

I was just venting that some reporters/broadcasters spit out that line like it's fact, when none of them really know for sure.

[Reds Fanatic]

Coffey is in for the 9th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Kouzmanoff with another hit now 9 for 27 against the Reds this year.

Headley grounds into a FC.

[Reds Fanatic]

Greene singles. 1st and 2nd with 1 out.

[Matt700wlw]

Todd Coffey continues his trend of suckitude with a 5 run lead.

I can't imagine he's going to have a long string before they cut their losses, and another stupid contract, and move on.

[jesusfan]

Coffey is great... bases loaded...

[Reds Fanatic]

Hundley singles. Bases loaded. Same old Coffey.

[schroomytunes]

When are we gonna cut bait with this guy?????really!!!

[Matt700wlw]

Cordero may have to make an appearance at this rate...


If Coffey can't even be counted on to mop up a blowout, then he has no business being on this team.

[durl]

Wow. You'd think Coffey would be really relaxed going out with a 5-run lead in the 9th. This is NOT how to prove you belong in the big leagues.

[Matt700wlw]

Coffey out...Cordero in.

[Reds Fanatic]

E. Gonzalez strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[jesusfan]

Imagine if Coco blew this game... what would that do to his confidence???

[Cyclone792]

This is a stupid appearance for Cordero, and it's all because of the save statistic.

Managers need to manage based on leverage situations, not based on whether his closer will be able to earn a save or not. Let the guy get some rest, especially when combined with the off day tomorrow.

[Reds Fanatic]

That is pretty sad when you go in to the 9th with a 5 run lead and have to use your closer to hopefully finish the game.

[Chip R]

This is a stupid appearance for Cordero, and it's all because of the save statistic.

Managers need to manage based on leverage situations, not based on whether his closer will be able to earn a save or not. Let the guy get some rest, especially when combined with the off day tomorrow.


I think I read somewhere that if a manager doesn't use his closer in a save situation, he hears about it from the player's agent.

[durl]

This is a stupid appearance for Cordero, and it's all because of the save statistic.

Managers need to manage based on leverage situations, not based on whether his closer will be able to earn a save or not. Let the guy get some rest, especially when combined with the off day tomorrow.

I thought it was because they're scared Coffey will turn a sure win into a loss. Loading the bases with one out scared me enough.

[NC Reds]

Reds did not have to waste Cordero here. Let Coffey finish it.

[KronoRed]

Managers need to manage based on leverage situations, not based on whether his closer will be able to earn a save or not. Let the guy get some rest, especially when combined with the off day tomorrow.


I bet it's about respect ;)

[schroomytunes]

Coffey needs to be DFA'd, its time for Herrara or Roenicke....

[Matt700wlw]

Cordero walks in a run...wow

[Reds Fanatic]

This bullpen is just ridiculous at this point. Now the tying run is coming to the plate.

[nate]

That was not a good outting for Coffey. Especially during Walt's "roster evaluation."

[Cyclone792]

I thought it was because they're scared Coffey will turn a sure win into a loss. Loading the bases with one out scared me enough.

It's a five run lead. If a team can't trust a pitcher to hold a five run lead in one inning, then that pitcher has no business in the organization, let alone the active roster.

Now Cordero's out there again. It sure would be nice if he'd have had a chance to get some rest heading into the Rockies series, but apparently not.

[NC Reds]

I tend to give Coffey a pass. He has not been used in a game for awhile. Coco on the other hand....

[Reds Fanatic]

Scott Hairston pinch hitting

[Nugget]

This is a stupid appearance for Cordero, and it's all because of the save statistic.

Managers need to manage based on leverage situations, not based on whether his closer will be able to earn a save or not. Let the guy get some rest, especially when combined with the off day tomorrow.

Its not just about the statistic - its about getting the save. Coffey has shown time and again he can't get the job done. You pay Cordero to get the save whatever the situation. You don't run guys out there like Majewksi, Lincoln who are not paid to get those last outs. Cordero is. Lets just say the only way to finish this off properly is to DFA Coffey after the game.

[Matt700wlw]

That shouldn't have been suspenseful, but they win the series, AS THEY SHOULD, against the worst team in baseball.

[jesusfan]

This one belongs to the reds... 50-53

[durl]

I'll just say that it's REALLY nice to see the bats coming to life. Let's keep it going!!

[Reds Fanatic]

Reds win 9-5 :beerme: Now 4-3 on this homestand. Bad thing is team easily could have been 7-0 on this homestand.

[schroomytunes]

See ya Coffey!!!!!adios and may we never see ya in a Red uniform again!!! pathetic every time out...:thumbdown

[Cyclone792]

Its not just about the statistic - its about getting the save. Coffey has shown time and again he can't get the job done. You pay Cordero to get the save whatever the situation. You don't run guys out there like Majewksi, Lincoln who are not paid to get those last outs. Cordero is.

And thanks to this backward logic, that's why we get stuck with Cordero blowing one and two run leads in the 9th inning when he's pitching on back-to-back-to-back games or pitching four out of the last five games.

There are high leverage saves, and there are "saves" that shouldn't in fact be saves. Cordero shouldn't be pitching the latter; he should be resting for the high leverage games.

[Kc61]

And thanks to this backward logic, that's why we get stuck with Cordero blowing one and two run leads in the 9th inning when he's pitching on back-to-back-to-back games or pitching four out of the last five games.

There are high leverage saves, and there are "saves" that shouldn't in fact be saves. Cordero shouldn't be pitching the latter; he should be resting for the high leverage games.

Coffey shouldn't have been used. He is a mop up guy. You don't mop up winning games. Certainly not a below .500 team. Wins are precious.

If DB wanted to go with a reliever not heavily used, he should have gone with Maj.

[Cyclone792]

Coffey shouldn't have been used. He is a mop up guy. You don't mop up winning games. Certainly not a below .500 team. Wins are precious.

If DB wanted to go with a reliever not heavily used, he should have gone with Maj.

Five run leads are five run leads. Three outs are all that's necessary. These are the types of games you use to rest your higher quality relievers.

Unless of course everybody is happy seeing Cordero blowing a game when he's pitching four out of five nights. That's always thrilling.

[Kc61]

Five run leads are five run leads. Three outs are all that's necessary. These are the types of games you use to rest your higher quality relievers.

Unless of course everybody is happy seeing Cordero blowing a game when he's pitching four out of five nights. That's always thrilling.

By using Coffey, the Reds were unable to rest Cordero. That's the point.

Should have been Maj, as I said before Coffey came into the game. Maj is throwing pretty well.

[Nugget]

I'd like to see how the logic is backwards. First you need to say what is your high leverage save. There is no such thing. A closer is someone who you can rely on to get you the three final outs of the game - if the winning or tying run is anywhere near the plate that is a closer situation. The other guys are useful to get the three outs when there is no tying or winning run. That's what Coffey is doing out there to begin with. It would be a better argument that Dusty and Dick should have realized earlier that Coffey was not going to get the job done and bring in another pitcher without the tying or winning run at the plate. Once that tying or winning run is at the plate its time for the guy who you are meant to rely on for the final outs.

[Cyclone792]

By using Coffey, the Reds were unable to rest Cordero. That's the point.

If Coffey can't hold a five run lead in three outs, then he has no business being in the organization.

The average win expectancy heading into the bottom of the 9th inning with a five run lead is 99.7 percent. That is the definition of a mopup situation.

[mbgrayson]

Coffey shouldn't have been used. He is a mop up guy. You don't mop up winning games. Certainly not a below .500 team. Wins are precious.

I disagree. This was EXACTLY the kind of game Coffey should have been used in. Dusty held off using him yesterday because it was such a tight game.

I also agree that if Coffey can't get things brewing a lot better than he did today, he needs to be DFA'd and Roenicke put on the 40 man and called up.

I also think putting Cordero in today was insane. He only got one day off from the disasterous outing where he blew the game on Monday night, and threw something like 40 pitches. Going into that night, he was already tired and over-extended.

I would have no problem calling in Magic or Bray to mop up for Coffey. Give Cordero a couple days off in a row, hopefully we will be needing him a lot the rest of the season.

[Nugget]

By using Coffey, the Reds were unable to rest Cordero. That's the point.

Should have been Maj, as I said before Coffey came into the game. Maj is throwing pretty well.

That logic is at least rational. Although I don't know if Maj was up to it either given that he pitched last night. You have Coffey up here and I don't think any club really wants to carry around a pitcher on the basis there are games where they will be totally out of it. If there is Coffey may be your man.

[Tom Servo]

Oh man, I forgot today was an afternoon game.

[PuffyPig]

If Coffey can't hold a five run lead in three outs, then he has no business being in the organization.

The average win expectancy heading into the bottom of the 9th inning with a five run lead is 99.7 percent. That is the definition of a mopup situation.

You've ignored the fact that Coffey had already had loaded the basis.

It was now a 2 run lead.

It was time to get Coffey out and your closer in.

It was a high leverage situation.

[Cyclone792]

You've ignored the fact that Coffey had already had loaded the basis.

It was now a 2 run lead.

It was time to get Coffey out and your closer in.

It was a high leverage situation.

The win expectancy was still 98.4 percent.

Games like today's are why Francisco Cordero is blowing saves frequently. He's working games in the 9th inning in which lesser relievers should be able to handle. Then when a game comes around when you really need him, he's on fumes and struggles.

[Red in Chicago]

Oh man, I forgot today was an afternoon game.

yeah, me too...i was just checking in to see if anyone started the game thread yet...sigh...

figures they'd win today too ;)

at least i can actually watch my video's tonight and stop paying late fees:thumbup:

[Raisor]

[QUOTE=Matt700wlw;1701024]April - awful

May - awesome

June - pretty bad

July - looking solid again


[QUOTE]


LF avg 782

Mar/April 791
May 1120
June 768
July 1143


Even when he's "bad" he's still average at least.

[Ron Madden]

The radio PBP for this game was terrible.

Thom did a pretty good job but it seemed like Marty was in another world.

[Tony Cloninger]

The win expectancy with Coffey out there is like Bluto Blutowskis grade point average....0.00.

[Falls City Beer]

The win expectancy with Coffey out there is like Bluto Blutowskis grade point average....0.00.

Yeah, I really wish they'd just stop with Coffey. He's starting to become legendary, and not in a good way. Cut him loose and prevent him from becoming a Reds' household name, like "Milton," as in, "to Milton" a pitch.

[LincolnparkRed]

Yeah, I really wish they'd just stop with Coffey. He's starting to become legendary, and not in a good way. Cut him loose and prevent him from becoming a Reds' household name, like "Milton," as in, "to Milton" a pitch.

True dat. He makes me wistful for the days of Phil Norton, Joe Valentine and John Riedling. At least with those guys you might see a zero when they got done. Coffey comes in and it is how many will he give up, not will they score on him. He had his moment in the sun in 2006 and know we pay for it with extra chances trying to justify an extension he didn't yet deserve.

[Nugget]

Hang On - you send out your closer with the tying and go-ahead run at the plate based on win expectancy. Not how Coffey looks. Sure he could come around but if you have a closer available this is exactly the situation that he should pitch in. Sure you could argue that the team does not have relievers to handle a five run ninth but once you get to this situation then its closer time.

[WVRedsFan]

Yeah, I really wish they'd just stop with Coffey. He's starting to become legendary, and not in a good way. Cut him loose and prevent him from becoming a Reds' household name, like "Milton," as in, "to Milton" a pitch.

You know, Todd seems like a nice kid, but after watching him pitch with hardly any movement on those pitches, I have to say either he doesn't have the talent or the Reds have done a poor job of improving him. Of course, maybe he just isn't a good student which is always possible.

I'm no genius and obviously that's true in baseball, but you would think some GM would cut bait with him. Krivsky thought enough of him to give him a extention and Jockkety thought enough to bring him up this year. He just hasn't improved. Maybe a change of scenery would do him good. That would be best for Todd and for the Reds IMHO.