Reds @ Nats 8-1-08

[klw]

From John Fay:

Lineup for Reds at Nationals, 7:35 p.m.

Jerry Hairston Jr. cf

Jeff Keppinger ss

Jay Bruce rf

Brandon Phillips 2b

Adam Dunn lf

Edwin Encarnacion 3b

Andy Phillips 1b

David Ross c

Homer Bailey p I assume Hairston activated, seeing as he is in the lineup :)

[Matt700wlw]

Dusty needs to leave Bruce in the 3 (or whatever hole the organization feels he's best suited for going forward) hole and in right field...let him develop himself into a role...

[reds44]

Why is Dunn batting 5th?
And who went down the make room for Hairston (I'll assume Coffey).

[HotCorner]

Why is Dunn batting 5th?
And who went down the make room for Hairston (I'll assume Coffey).

I believe they had an opening with the Griffey trade.

[nate]

I don't get the Dunn batting 5th thing.

Dusty dice must be broken.

[reds44]

I believe they had an opening with the Griffey trade.
No, because Masset took his spot on the roster.

[BRM]

I believe they had an opening with the Griffey trade.

They did but Masset is on the active roster as well. Someone has to go.

[BRM]

I don't get the Dunn batting 5th thing.

Dusty dice must be broken.

That's his spot. You can't move him from his spot.

[westofyou]

I don't get the Dunn batting 5th thing.

Dusty dice must be broken.

R - is for Runs

B - is for batted

I - is for I can't see anyone else who can drive Adam Dunn in as good as he can drive in the other guys.

The fact is Dunn could end up with more RBI's than Runs scored for the 2nd time in his career, that's the rabbit they're chasing when they put him in that slot.

[nate]

R - is for Runs

B - is for batted

I - is for I can't see anyone else who can drive Adam Dunn in as good as he can drive in the other guys.

The fact is Dunn could end up with more RBI's than Runs scored for the 2nd time in his career, that's the rabbit they're chasing when they put him in that slot.

Imagine how they'll feel when they find out it's not a real rabbit.

If they ever catch it.

[RedsManRick]

Imagine how they'll feel when they find out it's not a real rabbit.

If they ever catch it.

They think they've already caught it. That's the problem.

Dusty is managing the set of archetypes which he's assigned to his players. Phillips is the do-it-all star. Dunn is the RBI guy. Keppinger is the scrappy middle infielder. (Center fielder) is the speedy lead-off guy. He's managing ideas, not players.

[reds44]

This lineup is still bass ackwards. Assuming Votto bats 7th when he returns (which he will), here is the lineup by OPS.

.893
.701
.727
.788
.952
.843
.791 (wow, didn't realize Votto was under .800)
.776

should be:
Hairston
Votto
Dunn
Encarnacion
Phillips
Bruce
Keppinger
Ross

Keppinger really doesn't even belong in the lineup.

[westofyou]

They think they've already caught it. That's the problem.

Dusty is managing the set of archetypes which he's assigned to his players. Phillips is the do-it-all star. Dunn is the RBI guy. Keppinger is the scrappy middle infielder. (Center fielder) is the speedy lead-off guy. He's managing ideas, not players.

So he drives in more than he scores, is this really a bad thing?

Instead of pondering the lineup construction I'd rather ponder why the Reds don't have a #7 hitter with 75 RBI's at the end of the season if Dunn is going to bat 5th.

[redsmetz]

Where's Votto returning from? Did I miss something?

[RedsManRick]

So he drives in more than he scores, is this really a bad thing?

Instead of pondering the lineup construction I'd rather ponder why the Reds don't have a #7 hitter with 75 RBI's at the end of the season if Dunn is going to bat 5th.

It's not bad, Woy. It's that if he batted 3rd behind some decent OBP instead of 5th he could do more of both. I'm less hung up on the proportion of Runs/RBI as I am on the fact that he's being underutilized in the process of being pigeonholed.

Votto, our primary #7 hitter, is on pace for 69 RBI. One good game and that projection could easily become 75.

I'd like to know why our cleanup hitter isn't on pace for 100 Runs or RBI despite leading the team in PA and batting 4th nearly the entire year and bats ahead of 3 guys who all have higher OPS.

[MikeS21]

Where's Votto returning from? Did I miss something?
I think they mean "return" from his slump.

[westofyou]

It's not bad, Woy. It's that if he batted 3rd behind some decent OBP instead of 5th he could do more of both.

Votto is on pace for 69 RBI. One good game and that projection could easily become 75.

17 in his last 2 months.... that's over 200 PA's

Hal Morrisriffic

[gm]

I'd like to know why our cleanup hitter isn't on pace for 100 Runs or RBI despite leading the team in PA and batting 4th nearly the entire year and bats ahead of 3 guys who all have higher OPS.

Because he can't read the spin on a breaking ball from a RHP?

[BCubb2003]

Thus begins the Jay Bruce Era?

[gm]

And who went down the make room for Hairston (I'll assume Coffey).

Yes, the 25-man roster has been-decaffinated (per Fay's blog)

[CTA513]

Easy 7 pitch 1-2-3 inning for Perez.

[jesusfan]

I wouldn't mind picking up Johnny Estrada in place of Bako...

[Joseph]

Bailey pitching well again....or not.

[jesusfan]

single to left for Dukes... 1st and 2nd for Kearns...

[SMcGavin]

Gameday has Bailey hitting 96 in the first inning. No fastball under 93 yet.

[RedsManRick]

Bailey just doesn't have command of anything. You can see a touch of some decent stuff, but the kid is a long ways from being an effective major league pitcher.

[RedsManRick]

Single through the left side, 2-0. Bailey = Batting Practice. Averaging two hits per IP.

[OnBaseMachine]

Good velocity tonight for Homer but when you can't command a secondary pitch then you're going to get hit. I don't understand why Jocketty called him up.

[Az Red]

Oh, Boy. 2-0 Nats

[CTA513]

Wild pitch and then a fastball down the middle = 2-0 Nationals.

[CTA513]

Now he's already given up 4 hits.

[Patrick Bateman]

If you can't go through this line-up in pretty good routine, you shouldn't be in the majors. Seriously, Dukes is the only decent hitter, and his power has been shot this year.

[OnBaseMachine]

Homer struckout the side but allowed two runs on four hits in between the K's.

[CTA513]

Bailey K's the side... with 4 hits and 2 runs mixed in between.

[gm]

Time to get Masset warmed up, then Nick'll be "on schedule" for Homer's next start

[OnBaseMachine]

I don't think Phillips swung at one strike there.

[OnBaseMachine]

Wow. Dunn takes two pitches at the ankles - both called strikes. And then he has has to swing at the next pitch in the same spot. Awful umpiring tonight.

[CTA513]

Perez for Cy Young

[RedsManRick]

Quite the liberal strike zone tonight. Could be a quick one.

[flyer85]

Homer could take a lesson from Perez, everything is down

[BCubb2003]

Bailey K's the side... with 4 hits and 2 runs mixed in between.

Striking out the side is the biggest lie in baseball.

[CTA513]

Bailey just gave up another hit, maybe he can give up another 15 hits this game?

[Joseph]

The camera angle here makes this park look HUUUUUUUGE.

[OnBaseMachine]

I wonder if Dusty will keep him in long enough to allowed 15 hits again?

[Red in Chicago]

i think i'm switching to the sox / royals game;)

[RedsManRick]

I don't think hitters could hit Bailey any easier if he told them what was coming. When does Thompson come off the DL?

[flyer85]

everything is up and over the plate ... put a fork in Homes

[CTA513]

I wonder if Dusty will keep him in long enough to allowed 15 hits again?

Who knows, he's already up to 6 hits and 3 runs in 1 1/3rd inning.

[CTA513]

The Nationals had lost 9 in a row before Bailey came to throw BP tonight.

[WVRedsFan]

I don't think hitters could hit Bailey any easier if he told them what was coming. When does Thompson come off the DL?
A better question is when is Harang coming back?

[CTA513]

5-0 and I wish the Reds could face Bailey tonight.

[Falls City Beer]

When does Thompson come off the DL?

Yeah. He sure wowed 'em too, eh?

It's simple: the Reds basically destroyed the odds-making gods by getting two youngsters to come through at one time (Volquez, Cueto); expecting Bailey or Thompson to make it too is just kicking those gods while they're down.

Be happy that it appears two made it and appear to be able to stick. Maybe Bailey or Thompson can find a spot in the pen. Who knows?

[RedsManRick]

Uggh. 5-0. I have no interest in watch the rest of this game. The losing continues now!

[CTA513]

Will Bailey get pulled early or will he stay in for his 100 pitches?

[WVRedsFan]

Game over. I mean it. It's really stupid to give Homer the ball. He needs to either learn to pitch or be a career minor leaguer.

[Falls City Beer]

Who knows, he's already up to 6 hits and 3 runs in 1 1/3rd inning.

Hey. Watch it bub. It's *always* Dusty's fault.

[Falls City Beer]

Remember all those who believed Bailey would be just fine?

[flyer85]

A better question is when is Harang coming back?not soon enough :D

[CTA513]

Bailey finally gets the 3rd out and has now given up 7 hits and 5 runs in 2 innings.
I guess the Masset will make his Reds debut tonight?

[Buckeye33]

23 hits in his last 6 2/3 innings pitched!

Solid.

[Falls City Beer]

The Reds waited too long to deal Bailey.

[CTA513]

Andy Phillips breaks up the perfect game with a walk.

[flyer85]

the world according to George ... Andy Phillips was a big reason they turned their season around in 2007.

Yeah, that's why they released him.

[WVRedsFan]

The Reds waited too long to deal Bailey.
Truth. I have no hope that he'll ever be a serviceable starter in the majors.

Now that he's been found out, we'll have him forever.

[flyer85]

The Reds waited too long to deal Bailey.
like I said, they should have tried buying at the deadine ... and used Bailey as a chip

[flyer85]

number of reasons to let Homer bat ... zero

[CTA513]

number of reasons to let Homer bat ... zero

He hasn't reached his pitch count yet.

[flyer85]

ump has a wide and low K zone ... Bailey just doesn't have the command to take advantage of it

[37red]

I was just thinking the same thing......... The bring bailey up crowd. They must have had hopes of a young Joe Nuxhall, actually he throws like the young Nuxhall did LOL. I think he should be sent back to finish pitching school like Joe said when he came to our classroom "Wilson" to encourage us to finish. Bailey isn't ready, he's had a taste of the big lights, now he should go back with that thirst in his mouth to earn his way back up!

[BCubb2003]

5-0 and I wish the Reds could face Bailey tonight.

It's too bad you can't bring your own pitchers like in the Home Run Derby.

[CTA513]

Bailey was pulled and Masset is making his Reds debut.

[Red in Chicago]

griffey on deck for anyone that cares

[Bob Borkowski]

i think i'm switching to the sox / royals game;)

Junior is batting seventh and playing center field.

[mbgrayson]

Junior gets a nice hand in KC.

[edabbs44]

Bailey needs to go to the pen...and if that doesn't work, he needs to go down until he proves he is ready.

[jesusfan]

Griffey is up with Thome on first...

[flyer85]

could see why Masset was kept because he ran out of options. He has some serious sink on a 93-94 mph fastball

[mbgrayson]

Junior works a full count, then lines a single up the middle, knocking in Thome.

[Red in Chicago]

rbi single for jr...congrats:thumbup:

[WVRedsFan]

Griffey up. Foul tip. Strike one. Ball one. Called strike 2. Ball 2 on a wild pitch. Thome to second (he had singled). Ball 3. Foul. Still 3-2. base hit! RBI single.

[toledodan]

griffey rbi single in first AB!

[jesusfan]

Griffey and Keppinger!!! lol

[_Sir_Charles_]

Juniors' first AB with the white sox....RBI single.

[jesusfan]

In the other game Keppinger lines a double to left center... about time...

[jesusfan]

Bruce grounds to 1st... 1 down Keppinger to 3rd..

[jesusfan]

Get ahold of one BP!

[flyer85]

wonder if BP will make him throw a strike

[jesusfan]

Chris Welsh saying everything that I agree with... hmm

[jesusfan]

BP grounds to short... Kepp scores... 5-1

[flyer85]

5 balls to BP before he gets himself out

[jesusfan]

5-1 Nats mid 4...

[37red]

How do you get to the Sox page?

[WVRedsFan]

www.chicagowhitesox.com

[CTA513]

1-2-3 4th inning for Masset

[mbgrayson]

Homer Bailey: 2 Iniings, 49 pitches, 7 hits, 5 Earned runs, 1 BB, 3 Ks.
Nick Masset: 2 innings, 19 pitches, 0 hits, 0 runs, 1 BB, 0 Ks.

Hmmmmm.....I have an idea....

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Homer Bailey: 2 Iniings, 49 pitches, 7 hits, 5 Earned runs, 1 BB, 3 Ks.
Nick Masset: 2 innings, 19 pitches, 0 hits, 0 runs, 1 BB, 0 Ks.

Hmmmmm.....I have an idea....

Sounds good to me.

Giving up 5 runs in 2 innings to the Nats is like giving up 14 runs in 2 innings to a real team

[flyer85]

once again ... what is the Duster doing?

[mbgrayson]

However, Bailey is a better bunter than Masset.

[flyer85]

at some point Hairston is going to turn back into a pumpkin. You have to wonder if this 3rd time around will be it.

[Gainesville Red]

Dustyball. Works every time.

[flyer85]

hackers all

[mbgrayson]

7 pitch inning there for Odalis 'Cy' Perez. We have 1 run and 2 hits thru 6 innings .

[LvJ]

Impressive first game for Masset.

BTW, how is his name pronounced?

[VR]

Striking out the side is the biggest lie in baseball.


Juniors' first AB with the white sox....RBI single.

Noticed he's batting 7th.

[CTA513]

lol, Dunn walks to start the inning and the next two batters swing at the first pitch.
Encarnacion grounded into a force out on a good play by Harris and Phillips grounded into a double play.

[flyer85]

no reason to resign Dunn. He doesn't fit. Last 5 batters, one walk(Dunn), other 4 guys(Bruce, BP, EE, AP) make an out on the 1st pitch

[Falls City Beer]

Can't imagine Walt and Cast are happy about this phoning-it-in act we're seeing here.

[Falls City Beer]

Noticed he's batting 7th.

True, though the WS have an offense.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Can't imagine Walt and Cast are happy about this phoning-it-in act we're seeing here.


Rather see that then this team go on a "tear" and finish 2 games over .500, at which point everything would be OK and everyone would be brought back.

This team needs major surgery, not just minor tweaking.

[VR]

True, though the WS have an offense.

No respect.

[Falls City Beer]

Rather see that then this team go on a "tear" and finish 2 games over .500, at which point everything would be OK and everyone would be brought back.

This team needs major surgery, not just minor tweaking.

My guess is that playing 81-81 ball this season or 70-92 ball is going to get you the same dogcrap team come next year.

I don't think they're getting major surgery (which they don't need), but I also don't think they're going to get the payroll boost necessary to immediately contend.

At the deadline they needed to drop a bad salary and pick up a better one or get a good youngster for the starting rotation

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

First time all year Odalis Perez has pitched into the 8th inning.

Lame.

[flyer85]

let the pitcher bat Dusty, it's too late now.

[VR]

My guess is that playing 81-81 ball this season or 70-92 ball is going to get you the same dogcrap team come next year.

I don't think they're getting major surgery (which they don't need), but I also don't think they're going to get the payroll boost necessary to immediately contend.

At the deadline they needed to drop a bad salary and pick up a better one or get a good youngster for the starting rotation

Free from Griffey and the drama that there would be in the off season with his situation unresolved.....that's a good start.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Could this be the most pathetic game of the year to date?

I wonder what KGJ is thinking, glancing at this score from centerfield in KC

[CTA513]

Cabrera knocks Perez out of the game with a 1 out triple.

[CTA513]

Cabrera is left standing at 3rd after Hairston and Keppinger make outs.

[VR]

Jeremy Sowers took a perfecto into the 6th tonight.

[Falls City Beer]

Free from Griffey and the drama that there would be in the off season with his situation unresolved.....that's a good start.

I think this potential "Griffey drama" is a phantom of a lot of folks' creation. As far as talent on the field, it's not there. And the payroll's tighter than a drum.

They're going to need to dump some more this offseason to avoid lateral reloading for 09.

[gm]

Hairston tweaks him hammy again, running to first...but he's still out there in CF?

Dickerson time?

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Griffey another base hit and RBI ... SOX lead 2-0 with both runs driven in by Griff

[Ltlabner]

There's been a lot of clunker games this year.

This one might be one of the worst.

[VR]

I think this potential "Griffey drama" is a phantom of a lot of folks' creation. As far as talent on the field, it's not there. And the payroll's tighter than a drum.

They're going to need to dump some more this offseason to avoid lateral reloading for 09.

The good news is they have a lot of 'dumpable' salaries coming off the books.

Cordero's salary is a concern....other than that....you have Volquez, Cueto, Votto, Burton, et al coming pretty cheaply in 09.

There's work to do FCB, no doubt. But I think they'll be in better shape this offseason than they've been in awhile.

[MasonBuzz3]

that was a no doubter for Bruce, 5-2

[Ltlabner]

Bruce with a "brilliant" defensive play acording to Grande.

[gm]

Phillips whiffs on a splitter...this is a recording...

[Razor Shines]

That Phillips guy swings at a lot of pitches.

[OnBaseMachine]

Phillips is not a #4 hitter. Why can't Dusty realize that?

BTW another stellar job by the bullpen tonight with six shutout innings.

[Ltlabner]

BTW another stellar job by the bullpen tonight with six shutout innings.

Wait a sec. I thought Krivsky was a blithering idiot who couldn't build a bullpen to save his life?

[Falls City Beer]

The good news is they have a lot of 'dumpable' salaries coming off the books.

Cordero's salary is a concern....other than that....you have Volquez, Cueto, Votto, Burton, et al coming pretty cheaply in 09.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70730

Buckeye Redleg breaks it down nicely.



But I think they'll be in better shape this offseason than they've been in awhile

I've heard that one before.

[BCubb2003]

The walk is a team-dependant stat.

[flyer85]

That Phillips guy swings at a lot of BAD pitches.fixed

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

No better sign that you're about to break a 9-game losing streak than seeing the Reds come into town.

[CTA513]

Wait a sec. I thought Krivsky was a blithering idiot who couldn't build a bullpen to save his life?

3 of the innings came from Masset

[Razor Shines]

fixed

You know, I had the qualifier "bad" in there originally, but he does swing at good pitches too. He just flat out swings at a lot of pitches.

[Spring~Fields]

3 of the innings came from Masset

Krivsky scouts found that one too. :)

[edabbs44]

Wait a sec. I thought Krivsky was a blithering idiot who couldn't build a bullpen to save his life?

After all the time and money he spent on it, he finally did build a good bullpen. Too bad the rest of the team is horrific.

[Ron Madden]

Don't look now but we still have pitching problems. (BIG ONES)

:eek:

[Ltlabner]

After all the time and money he spent on it, he finally did build a good bullpen. Too bad the rest of the team is horrific.

Well...ya. There is that small detail. No argument there.

[Falls City Beer]

Did he build a good bullpen? My guess is this collection of arms will get clobbered in a repeat performance. (outside of Burton maybe--but you got to fear that Burton's injury might be a lot worse than they're letting on).

[Spring~Fields]

They think they've already caught it. That's the problem.

Dusty is managing the set of archetypes which he's assigned to his players. Phillips is the do-it-all star. Dunn is the RBI guy. Keppinger is the scrappy middle infielder. (Center fielder) is the speedy lead-off guy. He's managing ideas, not players.

"If you're supposed to be up there driving in runs ... a run producer, he ain't up there to get his on-base percentage up. He's in there to drive in runs," says Baker. "If you're passing it on to the next hitter, a lot of times, he's not as good of a hitter as you. Otherwise ... he'd be hitting ahead of you."
For his part, Phillips admits he's not your typical cleanup hitter -- "not even close," he says -- but he's fine hitting anywhere from 1-7 in the lineup. "I go up there trying to hit the ball hard. That's my No. 1 goal. Just put a good swing on the ball," Phillips says. "I like to swing the bat, that's what I like to do. I'm a swinger."


"I heard this thing today, man: The lineup really doesn't matter. That's [poppycock]," Baker says. "I love stat guys, but statheads have gotten way, way out there."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/john_donovan/03/14/donovan.phillips/1.html

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/beat/Cincinnati/P120/

Does the aggressive stuff go for Adam Dunn, too? “Like I said, I don’t like called third strikes. Dunn’s not a kid. He’s not old, but he ain’t a kid. I bet you he gets better. He’s from Texas, right? There’s not a cow in Texas if he don’t get better.”
[...]
On Votto: “He needs to swing some more. I talked to him about that. Strikeouts aren’t the only criteria. I’d like to see him more aggressive.”

“A lot of this on-base percentage is taking away the aggressiveness of some young kids. Most of the time you’ve got to put handcuffs on a young to keep him from swinging.”

“I need to know which one is the smarter hitter - which one can take and which one is a better hitter with two strikes. I have a pretty good idea already, but I have to see.”

Baker said he sometimes sits in his office staring into space, pondering and pontificating over things of this nature, “And sometime I just sit here and nothing comes.”
~Spring training 2008

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2008/02/index.html