Crazy thought and poll

[ChatterRed]

This is something that will never happen.....BUT.......I've mentioned it in crazy fashion in some other threads, so here goes.

If the Reds would sign Sabathia and Manny Ramirez as free agents this offseason, and trade only prospects, not major leaguers, to Seattle for Ichiro Suzuki................would you be happy about it and do you think the Reds would be favorites to win our division next year? I realize they'd have to give up some really good prospects - probably Bailey, Thompson, Frazier, etc...... and I also realize our payroll would balloon to around $120 million.

Keep in mind this is just for fun. Baseball news is somewhat slow right now with the playoffs going on. But hey, we can dream can't we?

Comments?

[Slyder]

Can you split this up to each individual one? Id be thrilled with Sabathia, Manny would depend on the deal length, and theres no way Id be thrilled with an aging Ichiro for another what 4 years?

[BEETTLEBUG]

I would like Ichiro and Magglio but not Manny, CC would be nice but would settle for lower tier Lefty.

[JayBruceFan]

I voted for the last one

For whatever it's worth

[ChatterRed]

Okay, I'll play Devil's Advocate here, just for the fun of it:

RF Suzuki
CF Bruce
LF Manny Ramirez
1B Votto
2B Phillips
SS Gonzalez
3B EE
C Hanigan

SP Sabathia
SP Harang
SP Volquez
SP Cueto
SP Arroyo

RP Cordero
RP Weathers
RP Burton
RP Bray
RP Owings
RP Affeldt
RP Lincoln, Herrera or Roenicke

Lineup:
RF Suzuki - best leadoff hitter in the game, hands down
2B Phillips - hits here because he's fast....j/k......Dusty would bat him here though
CF Bruce - will get better pitches to hit with Manny behind him
LF Ramirez - best overall hitter in the game including power and average, Mr. Clutch
1B Votto - batted nearly .300 with 24 HR's in his first full season
3B Encarnacion
SS Gonzalez
C Hanigan

Suzuki, Votto, and Ramirez will all bat close to .300
Bruce and Phillips probably bat closer to .280 with that lineup around them
EE probably bats .270 with that lineup around him and hits 25 HR's
In fact, Manny will hit 30-35 HR's, so might Bruce in a full season with Manny behind him
Votto might hit 25-30 HR's; Phillips probably hits 20-25 HR's.......you have 20-35 HR power in hitters 2 through 6.
Suzuki and ManRam raise the team batting average 20 points by themselves possibly considering our 2 other outfielders traded away batted around .230 and .240.

Suzuki is a better fielder than Junior was at this stage of his career (takes good care of his body). ManRam may be a liability, but he's not as bad as Dunn, and his hitting makes up for it far more than Dunn's ever did.

Sabathia is the ace, and then you have 2 other #2's in Harang and Volquez, depending on Harang's fastball speed, and then Cueto had an e.r.a under 3.50 the second half of the season, he should build on that.........and finally, remove 3 horrible outings by Arroyo and his e.r.a. was under 4.00 and he is an innings eater.

Mlbtraderumors.com projects after arbitration for the Reds payroll to be at $60 million. Suzuki will make $18 million this year. ManRam and Sabathia could each be had at $20 million per year. That adds roughly $60 million to the payroll and guarantees this team will contend, and probably be a favorite. NONE of those three are LOAFERS. All three are primetime players who continue to put up great numbers year after year while making pretty good money already. Some players go down the tubes when they get the big paycheck......these players haven't.

I wish they could do something wild and crazy like this. It would light this city on fire!

[Orenda]

This is something that will never happen.....BUT.......I've mentioned it in crazy fashion in some other threads, so here goes.

If the Reds would sign Sabathia and Manny Ramirez as free agents this offseason, and trade only prospects, not major leaguers, to Seattle for Ichiro Suzuki................would you be happy about it and do you think the Reds would be favorites to win our division next year? I realize they'd have to give up some really good prospects - probably Bailey, Thompson, Frazier, etc...... and I also realize our payroll would balloon to around $120 million.

Keep in mind this is just for fun. Baseball news is somewhat slow right now with the playoffs going on. But hey, we can dream can't we?

Comments?

If the reds were to do something crazy like sign CC and Manny then I think getting Ichiro would be unnecessary. Also if they had those two then I would hold onto my prospects and trade more MAJOR LEAGUERS and try to acquire more prospects.

Here's why: The reds would now have a load of money tied into a few players so that would severely hamper what the team can do for a few years. If Manny or CC goes bust towards the end of their contracts then who would be there to replace them? The farm system is strong now but instead of trading a surplus I would actually try to acquire more. As Manny was aging you could have guys who were developed and in place who are possibly just getting at the end of their arbitration years depending on the contract lengths. Also if CC was signed, then I would deal Harang or Arroyo for young talented pitching. I'd also be willing to include Edwin or Phillips in the right deal as well.

[redsfandan]

i voted for the last one but if this is just for fun...


...would you be happy about it and do you think the Reds would be favorites to win our division next year?
Comments?

i'd be shocked, a little concerned (cuz of how much $ that would take), but i'd definitely be excited and i bet most reds fans would feel the same way (shocked and excited at least). i think the 'experts' would expect us to have at least 15+ more wins and contend for a playoff spot.

whether suzuki is the very best leadoff hitter could be debated (no power/doesn't walk much) but he's definitely one of the very best, solid defensively and really not THAT old. that said, if i could have any leadoff hitter i'd probably take jose reyes over him since he'd also solve our annual problem at shortstop.

i'd also take a 100% healthy pujols over manny any day (again if i could have anyone). no less of a hitter and possibly better, can steal a base and turn a single into a double occasionally instead of a double into a single, younger, better defensively, and less of a headcase. i'd even take ordonez over manny. i know manny is a 1st ballot hall of famer and has been incredible in LA but it's kinda funny how he does that now before he becomes a FA. it wasn't long ago people thought manny was on the decline. (can ya tell i'm not his #1 fan? ;))

but people would start to talk about a cincy team in the playoffs again that's for sure and wouldn't that be a nice change.

[reds2221]

I would like to see them sign Sabathia. I would only want Manny if we could somehow get him for only two years instead of the four that I have heard that he is demanding. As for Ichiro, I do not see trading prospects for him as being a good move right now.

[ChatterRed]

i voted for the last one but if this is just for fun...



i'd be shocked, a little concerned (cuz of how much $ that would take), but i'd definitely be excited and i bet most reds fans would feel the same way (shocked and excited at least). i think the 'experts' would expect us to have at least 15+ more wins and contend for a playoff spot.

whether suzuki is the very best leadoff hitter could be debated (no power/doesn't walk much) but he's definitely one of the very best, solid defensively and really not THAT old. that said, if i could have any leadoff hitter i'd probably take jose reyes over him since he'd also solve our annual problem at shortstop.

i'd also take a 100% healthy pujols over manny any day (again if i could have anyone). no less of a hitter and possibly better, can steal a base and turn a single into a double occasionally instead of a double into a single, younger, better defensively, and less of a headcase. i'd even take ordonez over manny. i know manny is a 1st ballot hall of famer and has been incredible in LA but it's kinda funny how he does that now before he becomes a FA. it wasn't long ago people thought manny was on the decline. (can ya tell i'm not his #1 fan? ;))

but people would start to talk about a cincy team in the playoffs again that's for sure and wouldn't that be a nice change.

Well, this thread was just for fun.

I really think the Reds end up with Ordonez. I think they will like the shorter term of his contract, which will allow our minors to replace him after 3 seasons. Wouldn't surprise me to see management frown on signing a free agent, who will probably want 5 or 6 years. Doesn't seem to fit with small market.

[nemesis]

Well, this thread was just for fun.

I really think the Reds end up with Ordonez. I think they will like the shorter term of his contract, which will allow our minors to replace him after 3 seasons. Wouldn't surprise me to see management frown on signing a free agent, who will probably want 5 or 6 years. Doesn't seem to fit with small market.

It would be a one year fix. So a waste. I am all for Manny though. He will hit until he's 40.

[redsfandan]

It would be a one year fix. So a waste. I am all for Manny though. He will hit until he's 40.

it wouldn't be a one year fix. here's the contract details of ordonez:

02/07/05: Signed five-year, $75 million contract w/2009 & '10 options.
2008: $15 million,
2009: $18 million,
2010: $15 million club option w/$3 million buyout,
2011: $15 million club option
(both option years guaranteed w/135 starts or 540 PA in '09 or 270 starts or 1,080 PA between '08 and '09, 2010 option increases to $18 million under those circumstances)

we could keep him for 3 years or trade him after 2 or 2 1/2 years but he definitely wouldn't be a one year "fix". he's also a couple years younger than ramirez, would be cheaper, and we wouldn't be locked into him as long as we would with ramirez.

[fadetoblack2880]

whoever started calling him manram needs a brick in the temple. and isn't ichiro a free agent this offseason?

[redsfandan]

whoever started calling him manram needs a brick in the temple. and isn't ichiro a free agent this offseason?

Ichiro Suzuki Outfielder
07/13/07: Signed five-year, $90 million extension w/limited NTC ($5 million signing bonus).
2008: $17 million,
2009: $17 million,
2010: $17 million,
2011: $17 million,
2012: $17 million,
2013: Free Agent

[fadetoblack2880]

ah, guess i missed that. thanks.

[Carin4Narron]

Actually, this is a great thread. In theory, it would a great idea for the Reds to act on? But in practice, they would find a way to screw it up for themshelves. Plus, they don't have the guts to even try deals like this!

[BEETTLEBUG]

Forget him, didn't know his contract was that bad.