Merged: UK Basketball

[WMR]

"One of the worst recruiters ever" brought in the number 23 recruiting class in the country this year. Meanwhile the Messiah's class was ranked 21st.

We saw firsthand how well Tubby develops his players. :eek::eek::eek:

(See signature)

Kentucky fans couldn't wait for Joe Crawford to graduate when he was under Tubby's tutelage. Half a season under Gillispie and he became one of my favorite Wildcats of all time.

[Redhook]

"One of the worst recruiters ever" brought in the number 23 recruiting class in the country this year. Meanwhile the Messiah's class was ranked 21st.

Like I said, I think Tubby is a great person and a pretty good coach. But, when you are the basketball coach at Kentucky, All-Americans should fall in your lap. Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, and UNC should pretty much always been in the Top 10, if not Top 5, every year for recruiting. Kentucky should not be this far behind programs like Duke and UNC at this point in time.

I'm not sure why Tubby didn't get the players. Was it laziness like WilyMo stated? Was it his coaching style? Was it his personality? Did he not want "one-and-done" players? All of the above? Whatever it was, the bottom line is the program dropped off considerably during his tenure. And now, it's struggling mightily to recover (and I'm not happy about that one bit.....I already have to deal with the Bengals sucking arse and now Kentucky isn't even in the Top 25 :explode:).

[dabvu2498]

All those guys Tubby both recruited and developed into NBA talents may disagree.

[Redhook]

All those guys Tubby both recruited and developed into NBA talents may disagree.

I'm drawing blanks. Besides Rondo and T. Prince, who else is playing in the NBA that was recruited and developed under ol' Tubby? I'm being serious, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head. Anyone good?

I guess it's hard for me to get over Pitino's teams even though it was 10 years ago now. They were so talented and fun to watch.

[dabvu2498]

Bogans, Chuck Hayes, Azubuike come to mind.

[Redhook]

Bogans, Chuck Hayes, Azubuike come to mind.

Thanks.

I did love Azubuike's game and name. Too bad he left a year too early. He'd be a lot richer and better if he had stayed one more year.

Bogans - what a frustrating player. He should've been a lot better in college, IMO.

Hayes - Great guy to have on a college team. Came in as a nobody and got better every year.

Good players. They may have struggled to start for Pitino's teams though.

[dabvu2498]

Not bad for the worst recruiter ever, huh?

[cumberlandreds]

Not bad for the worst recruiter ever, huh?

You have to admit by Tubby's last season the talent base was lacking. Even Vitale pointed that out. He came up short on the big recruits too many times in the last couple of seasons. UK was number two on Hansborough and Wright's list who both went to UNC tomention just two. Tubby really needed a good recruiting year behind the Rondo/Morris class but came up woefully short on that one. That did him in more than anything.

[Javy Pornstache]

They did have a couple of good years, but those teams still weren't championship-caliber in my opinion. They could beat the other SEC teams, but struggled to beat the more-talented teams across the nation.

Tubby did an amazing job of turning one of the best programs in all of sports into something just above average. It's truly incredible how good the program was when he arrived to how bad it was when he left. What an epic display of crap.

Tubby is a great person and a pretty good coach, but he has to be one of the worst recruiters ever. At Kentucky, All-Americans fall into your lap and he managed to bring in poor players over and over again. I'm still baffled how he was able to avoid All-Americans so easily.

I'm optimistic that Kentucky will be back to one of the top teams in the country in the near future, but the task at hand is difficult due to the destruction that Tubby did to the program.

Whole post quoted for truthiness. :D

Redhook nailed it. I hear a lot from people OUTSIDE Kentucky's fandom about how wrong we are about Tubby, but rarely from people who have actually followed UK basketball closely and live it and breathe it day-to-day like UK fans do. Not saying that it's all-encompassing that only people outside the Big Blue Nation have this standpoint, I know dabvu knows his stuff with UK hoops from our time over the years in these threads, but mostly, these counterarguments come from outside.

For the record, for those who credit the development of Rondo and Azubuike, in particular, with Tubby... not so much. The main reason those two left early for the NBA when everyone under the sun said they weren't ready, without slinging too much mud, had to do with Tubby and their fear of lowering their future stock. Sounds crass, but that's a fact. Kelenna had personal/family financial reasons to consider as well, but UK should never be a place kids want to ESCAPE to help their future stock as a pro. There are some positives that came from their time there (I do think Rondo upped his defensive game for the NBA thanks to his time at UK).

If anybody REALLY thinks that Kentucky was in good shape at the end of Tubby's tenure, where they're completely irrelevant on a national level, unranked, not the national merchandise cow they once were, rarely WENT AFTER top recruits let alone land them, is either completely delusional or a fan of Louisville, Indiana, Florida, Tennessee or North Carolina... I can understand why they'd want Tubby to stay :D The fact that Kentucky is a three-year rebuilding job for Gillispie shows what shape the team was left in.

[WMR]

LOL Javy, remember when Pitino came out in support of Tubby at Kentucky?

:lol:

Wonder why?

[Redhook]

Not bad for the worst recruiter ever, huh?

I did say "one" of the worst recruiters ever, not the worst. And I stand by it, I still think he was a terrible recruiter at Kentucky.

In 10 years, Tubby recruited Prince, Rondo, Azubuike, Hayes, and Bogans. Probably a few more decent ones that I can't think of right now, but those guys aren't all that. Pitino would almost top that class in one year let alone 10.

Prince was a decent player in college. Too sporadic to be called great.

Rondo was good, but had a terrible shot. He's definitely exceeding my expectations for him as a pro, but at the same time his current cast is all-world.

Azubuike was pretty solid, but still not a huge recruit across the nation.

I don't think Hayes was considered a recruit. He did turn into a solid college player, but I base that mostly on his work ethic.

Bogans was a big-name when he came, but never lived up to expectations. One of the biggest disappointments for me.

All in all, Tubby got some good players at UK. I don't know if any could be considered great. The bottom line is I could be the coach at UK, and I don't know squat about coaching, and I would luck into some good players because it is UK. UK, the basketball mecca. The program should not be where it is today. And I blame that on Tubby.

[dabvu2498]

Tubby got burned by quite a few high profile recruits that didnt work out for one reason or another. Mike Bradley, Carruth, Jason Parker, Marvin Stone, Desmond Allison off the top of my head. If even a couple of those guys had lived up to the hype... Point is though, each of those guys was a big time recruit. Add them in with the guys that did work out... Tubby got some serious studs to come there.

[dabvu2498]

Here is my issue with the Tubby haters: I understand why you wanted him gone but I don't understand the desire to piss all over his grave as though he never did anything positive for Kentucky basketball.

[WVRed]

Here is my issue with the Tubby haters: I understand why you wanted him gone but I don't understand the desire to piss all over his grave as though he never did anything positive for Kentucky basketball.

I posted this last year on the blog I have listed in my signature. If anything, it sums up my thoughts on Tubby (that and I get tired of re-hashing the same points):

http://legionofcats.blogspot.com/2008_01_01_archive.html


This is quite a bit overdue, as the non conference schedule is past and we are into SEC play, but there is an issue that has still been bothering me.

On March 22nd, 2007, four days after being eliminated 88-76 by Kansas in the second round of the NCAA tournament, Orlando "Tubby" Smith decided to resign as head coach of the University of Kentucky and accept a "new challenge" as he called it, rebuilding a Minnesota Golden Gopher program that was decimated by the recruiting antics of Dan Monson. Immediately on Sportscenter that evening, the very first person interviewed was Dick Vitale, who immediately praised Tubby for winning five SEC titles and averaging 26 wins a season. In addition, Vitale called out Kentucky fansfor their expectations, comparing them to the Yankees in baseball.

Vitale is right on some points. The expectations at Kentucky are very high, but with those expectations come some of the greatest benefits in college basketball:


Being able to coach at the winningest program in college basketball history (second to UCLA in NCAA tournament titles).

The ability to recruit the top players in the nation.

A top notch brand new on-campus practice facility.

Being able to follow in the steps of coaches such as Adolph Rupp, Joe B. Hall, Eddie Sutton, and Rick Pitino. Yes, Sutton shamed the program and Pitino is a traitor, but their records speak for themselves.

Being able to play in a downtown arena that leads the nation in home attendance.
In addition to these benefits come the most passionate fans in all of college basketball. Former coach Rick Pitino called Kentucky fans the "Roman Legion of College Basketball". However, with those passionate fans come the expectations, sometimes unrealistic, of leading a team to prominence. Inheriting a roster led by Wayne Turner, Jeff Sheppard, and Scott Padgett, Tubby Smith did just that and took the Wildcats in his first year to their 7'th NCAA Championship.

So what went wrong? Well, as much as people back then would have become furious for even mentioning it, Tubby Smith won that championship with Pitino's players. It sounds like an excuse, but the players that Pitino had left over were still very impressive, just not as much as the 1996 and 1997 teams.

Tubby did have success with his own players, most notably in the 2002/2003 season when his team went 32-4 and went undefeated in SEC play, and would have likely made the Final Four if not for the efforts of Dwayne Wade and an injury to top scorer Keith Bogans. Two years later, Kentucky would again make it to the Elite Eight, losing in double overtime to Michigan St.

Tubby is a successful and accomplished coach, but while his winning is well noted, there are several flaws to Tubby Smith while at Kentucky:

Recruiting: You cannot deny the impact that the NBA has made on recruiting. In the day and age of Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, and Tracy McGrady, top teams were forced to adapt constantly to the changes being made and Tubby decided instead of going after players who were only going to be there for one year to pursue lesser players who would fit his system and would stay all four years. While Tubby did not go after the one and done players, the players he did recruit did well. Gerald Fitch, Chuck Hayes, Cliff Hawkins, Erik Daniels, Derrick Jasper, and Jodie Meeks are all talented players and three of the first four players have seen time in the NBA. The one recruiting class that consisted of four top recruits, Ramel Bradley, Joe Crawford, Rajon Rondo, and Randolph Morris, eventually ended up being Tubby's undoing.

Style of Play: Tubby's style of play, known around the state as "Tubbyball", focused primarily on slowing down the tempo of the game on offense and pressuring the opponents on defense. This was a major turnoff for Kentucky fans who loved the up-tempo style of play that Rick Pitino made popular. Because of this style of play, the scoring distribution was fairly even with no single player dominating a game. Top players that Tubby did pursue nationally began to spurn Kentucky, most notably Tyler Hansborough and Brandan Wright, who committed to North Carolina and cited Kentucky's style of play as a reason for not committing.

Conditioning: This is something I believe that Tubby needs to address if he is ever going to be truly successful with "his" players at Minnesota. Whether it was because he substituted freely and the players didn't have the motor to compete, or that the death of John Stewart (a commitment who collapsed and died during a high school game) possibly could have affected him in how hard he pushed his players, Tubby Smith teams constantly appeared out of shape and could not play against more physical teams. If you want proof of this, check this years team with Coach Gillispie versus last years team.
These three things led to an overall decline of the Kentucky program in the last two years. Another reason that fans were not too fond of Tubby, unfortunately, is race. I personally do not share these views, but people in the state of Kentucky were not too thrilled to learn that the person coaching in "The House that Rupp Built" was black. You may not find many of these people in Lexington, but get further away from the central part of the state and you will find it still lives.

In closing I leave you with this. Living in West Virginia, people are still bitter over the messy divorce involving Rich Rodriguez leaving WVU for the Big Ten and Michigan. However, the administration at Kentucky is not doing the same insane things that WVU has been claiming since Rodriguez left. It seems like every week something new is surfacing, and whether true or not, some people need to just let go and move on. I wish Tubby the best at Minnesota, and I think his style of play will work well there. I just hope that he adjusts his conditioning, or he will run into the same problems there that he fell into at Kentucky.

Thank you for reading.

[WVRed]

It also goes without saying, but Kentucky is winning 59-24 at half. Meeks has 27 of those points, going 7/11 from behind the arc.

When Meeks is hot, he is an All American and NBA caliber.

[WMR]

Here is my issue with the Tubby haters: I understand why you wanted him gone but I don't understand the desire to piss all over his grave as though he never did anything positive for Kentucky basketball.

I personally don't have any ill will towards the Tubster. I think he stayed at Kentucky about 4 years too long, but I have much love for the man for the coaching job he did in the 1998 NCAA tourney.

[WVRed]

I personally don't have any ill will towards the Tubster. I think he stayed at Kentucky about 4 years too long, but I have much love for the man for the coaching job he did in the 1998 NCAA tourney.

IMO, Tubby was feeling the heat in 2001 and 2002 before the 2003 team went off. That 2003 season IMO bought Tubby the rest of his tenure here.

[WMR]

IMO, Tubby was feeling the heat in 2001 and 2002 before the 2003 team went off. That 2003 season IMO bought Tubby the rest of his tenure here.

Yup.

[WMR]

I have been very encouraged by Liggins tonight. His on-court demeanor has been much improved and he is showing a willingness to run the offense the way Coach Gillispie wants.

[jesusfan]

Great play by Liggins, Porter and Galloway tonight... Sure Patterson had 33 and Meeks had 32 w/ 8 3's... But if we get that kind of play out of the ball handlers we have the ability to do something great this season... 102-58 against Tenn. State is a big win, they went to Alabama the other night and scared them to death, coming out with a 9 point victory... Let's keep on keeping on... Happy Holidays everybody!

[Redhook]

I personally don't have any ill will towards the Tubster. I think he stayed at Kentucky about 4 years too long, but I have much love for the man for the coaching job he did in the 1998 NCAA tourney.

ditto for Redhook

[cumberlandreds]

I personally don't have any ill will towards the Tubster. I think he stayed at Kentucky about 4 years too long, but I have much love for the man for the coaching job he did in the 1998 NCAA tourney.
Same from me. Tubby was still a good coach when he left and still is at Minnesota. But for whatever reason he couldn't seal the deal when it came to program turning players his last few seasons. He will always have a spot in my heart from me for winning that 98 championship. One that I really didn't expect that season.

[durl]

I have nothing against Tubby and appreciate him for his time at Kentucky. His recruiting did end up leaving something to be desired but, to me, another coach was needed when the discipline problems became more frequent. It seemed as though Tubby was losing control of the players he did manage to sign.

Rondo leaving wasn't a good sign, either. It's one thing for a player to seek NBA cash but Rondo was unhappy under Tubby and Rondo never seemed to be a "prima donna" type of player. I figured if good players don't want to play for Tubby, it can't be good.

[WVRed]

I have nothing against Tubby and appreciate him for his time at Kentucky. His recruiting did end up leaving something to be desired but, to me, another coach was needed when the discipline problems became more frequent. It seemed as though Tubby was losing control of the players he did manage to sign.

Rondo leaving wasn't a good sign, either. It's one thing for a player to seek NBA cash but Rondo was unhappy under Tubby and Rondo never seemed to be a "prima donna" type of player. I figured if good players don't want to play for Tubby, it can't be good.

The problem was Rondo's role on the team. The way I understood it at the time, if Rondo didn't go pro, Ramel Bradley was going to transfer.

[WVRed]

Notwithstanding the Tubby talk, there was a game today.

Kentucky beat the Mike Jarvises of Florida Atlantic 76-69. From what I gathered, the defense kept Florida Atlantic in the game.

Patterson had 27 points and 14 boards. The best part of the game, only seven turnovers.

[cumberlandreds]

Notwithstanding the Tubby talk, there was a game today.

Kentucky beat the Mike Jarvises of Florida Atlantic 76-69. From what I gathered, the defense kept Florida Atlantic in the game.

Patterson had 27 points and 14 boards. The best part of the game, only seven turnovers.

I was watching while trying to do some things around the house so my attention wasn't all there. But it seemed as though the defensive intensity wasn't there for the most part. FAU did hit some crazy shots with people all over them. You have to give FAU credit,they did play a very good game. The low turnovers for UK probably saved them. If they turn it over 20 times they probably lose this one. They also shot poorly from 3 point area. It was a win, so we'll take it and move on. One more,hopefully,easy one,then the real schedule kicks in with UL and the SEC.

[dabvu2498]

Only turned it over 7 times but only forced 9 out of the Owls. A pretty listless performance overall. Some of the younger guys went back on the shelf yesterday. That aint good.

[WVRed]

Only turned it over 7 times but only forced 9 out of the Owls. A pretty listless performance overall. Some of the younger guys went back on the shelf yesterday. That aint good.

Not necessarily.

Brandon Slone got a lot of playing time. I have a feeling that if he catches fire, he will be a real gem.

John Pelphrey anyone? (They did go to the same high school)

[jmac]

Not necessarily.

Brandon Slone got a lot of playing time. I have a feeling that if he catches fire, he will be a real gem.

John Pelphrey anyone? (They did go to the same high school)

I was thinking a Cameron Mills type but either will be fine. :D

[jmac]

In a side note:

Who is the best dunker of "your" time period as a UK fan ?
I think Perry Stevenson is quickly moving up the ladder on that one.
:thumbup:

[jmac]

I was watching while trying to do some things around the house so my attention wasn't all there. But it seemed as though the defensive intensity wasn't there for the most part. FAU did hit some crazy shots with people all over them. You have to give FAU credit,they did play a very good game. The low turnovers for UK probably saved them. If they turn it over 20 times they probably lose this one. They also shot poorly from 3 point area. It was a win, so we'll take it and move on. One more,hopefully,easy one,then the real schedule kicks in with UL and the SEC.

You are correct in that FAU hit some almost impossible shots on many possesions.
Our 3- point shooting was atrocious. I really hope someone emerges as a third scorer besides Perry who gets a lot of his off rebounds/or good passing.

[cumberlandreds]

Not necessarily.

Brandon Slone got a lot of playing time. I have a feeling that if he catches fire, he will be a real gem.

John Pelphrey anyone? (They did go to the same high school)

Yes,Pelphrey and Slone both went to Paintsville High School.

[dabvu2498]

Or it could be Mark Coury 2.0.

[WVRed]

Or it could be Mark Coury 2.0.

Nope. Slone is a sharpshooter. Coury really never served a purpose.

I've always been impressed with the true Kentucky boys who fight and claw their way into the lineup. Tubby seemed to suppress them (outside of Ravi Moss), but Pitino and Gillispie both made them integral to our success.

[Redhook]

In a side note:

Who is the best dunker of "your" time period as a UK fan ?
I think Perry Stevenson is quickly moving up the ladder on that one.
:thumbup:

Hands down, Jeff Sheppard.

[durl]

Hands down, Jeff Sheppard.

Sheppard gets my vote, too. Most guys make impressive dunks by what they do with the ball. Sheppard made the dunk look impressive by how he seemed to soar.

Rex Chapman is my 2nd place guy.

[dabvu2498]

Nope. Slone is a sharpshooter. Coury really never served a purpose. I've always been impressed with the true Kentucky boys who fight and claw their way into the lineup. Tubby seemed to suppress them (outside of Ravi Moss), but Pitino and Gillispie both made them integral to our success. More revisionist history. How bout Pat Sparks? Cameron Mills in 98? Best dunker? Kenny Walker and . Dirk Minnefield.

[TeamSelig]

In a side note:

Who is the best dunker of "your" time period as a UK fan ?
I think Perry Stevenson is quickly moving up the ladder on that one.
:thumbup:

My personal fav would be Azubuike

[dabvu2498]

Azubuike was a good one. Rod Rhodes had some nice ones before he left. How bout this one: best pure shooter at UK in your memory? I say Delk or Travis Ford.

[WVRed]

Another win for Kentucky. Got off to a slow start before Gillispie yanked the starters and Kentucky exploded on a run to put away Central Michigan 84-52.

I didn't get to see or hear the game(XM wasn't carrying it). Landon Slone apparently sparked the run to put Kentucky in control though.

[Javy Pornstache]

Just stopping by to namedrop Derek Anderson in the dunker category.

[jmac]

Another win for Kentucky. Got off to a slow start before Gillispie yanked the starters and Kentucky exploded on a run to put away Central Michigan 84-52.

I didn't get to see or hear the game(XM wasn't carrying it). Landon Slone apparently sparked the run to put Kentucky in control though.

BillyG also set Jodie to begin 2nd half.

[cumberlandreds]

Just stopping by to namedrop Derek Anderson in the dunker category.

Kenny Walker is my pick for best dunker. Also an honorable mention should go to James Lee. He was a power dunker who could intimidate with his dunks. He capped the 1978 title with a dunk to end that game.

[WVRed]

Best pure shooter IMO would have been Jeff Sheppard.

[cumberlandreds]

Another win for Kentucky. Got off to a slow start before Gillispie yanked the starters and Kentucky exploded on a run to put away Central Michigan 84-52.

I didn't get to see or hear the game(XM wasn't carrying it). Landon Slone apparently sparked the run to put Kentucky in control though.

I'll take credit for the in last night. ;) When I got home to turn the game on the Cats were down 15-6. From that point on UK blew the Chips out. Slone played a really good game. He is seeming to get better with each game. The defensive effort was just tremendous. The Chips could hardly breath much less get off a decent shot.
We will see how they have improved come Sunday against UL. I'm looking forward to seeing if this team has real shot to do anything in March or this good play recently has just been a mirage against some really bad teams.

[Blimpie]

In a side note:

Who is the best dunker of "your" time period as a UK fan ?
I think Perry Stevenson is quickly moving up the ladder on that one.
:thumbup:1) Kenny Walker
2) Rex Chapman
3) Jeff Sheppard

[Blimpie]

Another win for Kentucky. Got off to a slow start before Gillispie yanked the starters and Kentucky exploded on a run to put away Central Michigan 84-52.

I didn't get to see or hear the game(XM wasn't carrying it). Landon Slone apparently sparked the run to put Kentucky in control though.I was lucky enough to score some beautiful midcourt, lower arena seats to last night's game (my brother works with Dr. Lee Todd's son). After seeing the boys LIVE for my first time this season, I have a few thoughts:


This is the best shot-blocking UK team I have ever seen. The beauty is that they are seldom ever risky block attempts; there always seems to be a help-side player covering the spot on the floor that was vacated by the shot blocker. If A.J. Stewart ever plays 20+ minutes (without cannibalizing the minutes of Stevenson/Patterson) UK will have some 20-block games this season.


As the Conference season approaches, I predict far more called plays for Patterson--and less for Meeks. Yes, I know the guy is the reigning SEC Player of the Week. But, Billy Clyde still appears completely frustrated with Meeks inability to play perimeter defense. Also, there were 3 breakaways last night where Meeks should have given up the ball for an easier chance by his teammate (granted one time it was Porter who was trailing). On the other hand, Patterson is unstopable in the paint, shoots +70% from the field, bangs home his free throws, makes great passes out to the wing. Even considering his current stats, Patterson is still one of the most grossly under-utilized players in the nation IMO.


Porter's days at the point are numbered. The lineup that flowed the best last night was: Sloane, Liggins, Meeks, Stevenson, and Patterson. Sloane is one of the best on-the-ball defenders on the team (who knew?) and is that missing ingredient for the Rupp Arena crowd: hometown boy who turned down schollys to walk-on at UK, never pulls his foot off the accelerator, always diving on the floor for loose balls--oh yeah, the red hair doesn't hurt either. The good news is that Porter appears to be glimpsing in the rear-view mirror and has stepped up his game somewhat. I still think Sloane is the better pure shooter and an equal with running the point.


DeAndre Liggins has more raw talent potential than any other player on the floor. I am amazed at how well he can handle the ball in traffic. He could run the point tomorrow (with Sloane on the wing) and we would hardly miss a step. He is one of those guys who your eyes are drawn to during a game. Given enough minutes--and the proper development--he could end up being UK's first All-American since Scott Padgett in 1998.


We are going to need Galloway during the next three months. Whatever he and Billy Clyde need to do to mend fences has to be done. Waaaaaaaaay too much talent to be riding the bench. Throw into the mix that he is a pronounced crowd favorite, and this seems like a no-brainer.


Go Cats!

[Blimpie]

Best pure shooter IMO would have been Jeff Sheppard.I'll take Ron Mercer on that one...

[Blimpie]

Kenny Walker is my pick for best dunker. Also an honorable mention should go to James Lee. He was a power dunker who could intimidate with his dunks. He capped the 1978 title with a dunk to end that game.Good call with James Lee. Charles Hurt could hold his own on that team as well.

[cumberlandreds]

I'll take Ron Mercer on that one...

I've seen a lot really good pure shooters since I have been a UK fan which goes back to about 1971. Just too many to pick one. Here are a few:

Kevin Grevey
Jack Givens
Jim Master
Tony Delk
Kyle Macy
Jeff Shepard

There were some long range bombers who weren't that consistent but were fun to watch when they were on. Here are a few of them:

Jay Shidler
Ronnie Lyons
Derrick Miller
Cameron Mills,he was pretty consistent but just didn't get the playing time since he was a walk on.

I'm sure I'm leaving out a few but that's a decent list.

[jesusfan]

Hands down, Jeff Sheppard.

Azubuike could definitely lay some DUNK DOWN!!! He gets my vote!

http://www.slamdunkcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/00018a.jpg

[Blimpie]

Do Shawn Kemp dunks that occurred UK practices count?

:cool:

[Scrap Irony]

Best Dunker: Dirk Minnifield. No question on the hops, just the head.

Best Shooter: Louie Dampier. Leading scorer in the ABA history. If there were a 3 point line, he'd likely have scored 30 per game in college. At 55% to boot.

As to Kentucky this year-- they go as far as their lead guard takes them and no further. Liggins looked like the answer for a short while, but has regressed. Porter is a poor choice for anything other than back-up minutes and Slone is only an Appalachian daydream wrapped in red hair and floor burns. Galloway is the same player Derrick Jasper was for two seasons before becoming a Runiun' Rebel. If BillyG can find 40 consistent minutes out of the quartet each game, the Cats may go Elite Eight.

That's not likely.

I expect a 32 or Sweet 16 this season and another struggle to find a point guard next season.

[jmac]

While smaller guys make the dunks look alot better than the bigger guys, 2 more big guys that come to mind:

One dunk against Mich State by Jason Parker looked like he would pull the rim down. It was a very powerful one handed slam I believe.

As far as a bigger guy and authoratative dunks, the winner would be : Melvin Turpin.
Turpin always had a way of taking the ball back behind his head and sorta loading up for a dunk.

[Redhook]

I was lucky enough to score some beautiful midcourt, lower arena seats to last night's game (my brother works with Dr. Lee Todd's son). After seeing the boys LIVE for my first time this season, I have a few thoughts:


This is the best shot-blocking UK team I have ever seen. The beauty is that they are seldom ever risky block attempts; there always seems to be a help-side player covering the spot on the floor that was vacated by the shot blocker. If A.J. Stewart ever plays 20+ minutes (without cannibalizing the minutes of Stevenson/Patterson) UK will have some 20-block games this season.


As the Conference season approaches, I predict far more called plays for Patterson--and less for Meeks. Yes, I know the guy is the reigning SEC Player of the Week. But, Billy Clyde still appears completely frustrated with Meeks inability to play perimeter defense. Also, there were 3 breakaways last night where Meeks should have given up the ball for an easier chance by his teammate (granted one time it was Porter who was trailing). On the other hand, Patterson is unstopable in the paint, shoots +70% from the field, bangs home his free throws, makes great passes out to the wing. Even considering his current stats, Patterson is still one of the most grossly under-utilized players in the nation IMO.


Porter's days at the point are numbered. The lineup that flowed the best last night was: Sloane, Liggins, Meeks, Stevenson, and Patterson. Sloane is one of the best on-the-ball defenders on the team (who knew?) and is that missing ingredient for the Rupp Arena crowd: hometown boy who turned down schollys to walk-on at UK, never pulls his foot off the accelerator, always diving on the floor for loose balls--oh yeah, the red hair doesn't hurt either. The good news is that Porter appears to be glimpsing in the rear-view mirror and has stepped up his game somewhat. I still think Sloane is the better pure shooter and an equal with running the point.


DeAndre Liggins has more raw talent potential than any other player on the floor. I am amazed at how well he can handle the ball in traffic. He could run the point tomorrow (with Sloane on the wing) and we would hardly miss a step. He is one of those guys who your eyes are drawn to during a game. Given enough minutes--and the proper development--he could end up being UK's first All-American since Scott Padgett in 1998.


We are going to need Galloway during the next three months. Whatever he and Billy Clyde need to do to mend fences has to be done. Waaaaaaaaay too much talent to be riding the bench. Throw into the mix that he is a pronounced crowd favorite, and this seems like a no-brainer.


Go Cats!

Very nice post! That was a good read.

I'm still sticking with Jeff Shepherd as the best dunker because it was so unexpected.

Best pure shooter: I'll go with Tony Delk.

How about another one....

Favorite all-time UK player?

My favorite was Jamal Mashburn. He was good, really good.

[dabvu2498]

Favorite ever? Mashburn and Chuck Hayes.

[TeamSelig]

My fav's in no particular order:

Ron Mercer
Derek Anderson
Tayshaun Prince
Chuck Hayes
Kelenna Azubuike

I remember when Azubuike was a freshman I think it was.... he came into the game with less than a minute to go and started scoring like crazy... the crowd went NUTS chanting "Az - U - bui - KE" over and over. Man, I wish he would have stayed a little longer.

[jmac]

My favs :
Jay Schidler
Sam Bowie
Kenny Walker
Rex Chapman
Jamal Mashburn

[WVRed]

Best Dunker: Dirk Minnifield. No question on the hops, just the head.

Best Shooter: Louie Dampier. Leading scorer in the ABA history. If there were a 3 point line, he'd likely have scored 30 per game in college. At 55% to boot.

As to Kentucky this year-- they go as far as their lead guard takes them and no further. Liggins looked like the answer for a short while, but has regressed. Porter is a poor choice for anything other than back-up minutes and Slone is only an Appalachian daydream wrapped in red hair and floor burns. Galloway is the same player Derrick Jasper was for two seasons before becoming a Runiun' Rebel. If BillyG can find 40 consistent minutes out of the quartet each game, the Cats may go Elite Eight.

That's not likely.

I expect a 32 or Sweet 16 this season and another struggle to find a point guard next season.

I disagree on Slone. He has the ability to be an excellent shooter from deep, as well as an excellent defender. He was the one who triggered the comeback in yesterdays game.

Liggins could be on his way back. I had lobbied to start Liggins so he could do something like he did last night. I think the experience should humble him into buying into Coach's gameplan a little more.

[dabvu2498]

Slone was very good... against Central Michigan. It will be a different type of game frome here on out. Think he can guard Edgar Sosa or Andre Mcgee?

[dabvu2498]

Here's another: best rebounder? I say Chuck Hayes and Jared Prickett.

[jesusfan]

Slone was very good... against Central Michigan. It will be a different type of game frome here on out. Think he can guard Edgar Sosa or Andre Mcgee?

Sosa or McGee?? I think he can definitely guard those two... I'm not worried about U of L's back court at all... It's Earl Clark and Terrance Williams that worries me... But, we will play as a team and big brother will play as individuals come Sunday... At least I hope so.. lol

[jesusfan]

Here's another: best rebounder? I say Chuck Hayes and Jared Prickett.

Of All-Time??? Ever heard of Dan Issel, Frank Ramsey, Cliff Hagan, Kenny Walker, Sam Bowie or Jack Givens... All better rebounders than Hayes or Prickett...Although I love Hayes, he's one of my top 3 favorite all time cats..

[Scrap Irony]

Cliff Hagan, despite being only 6'5", regularly grabbed 15+ rebounds per game. Cotton Nash could also rebound well, as could Issel.

But the best rebounder in UK history is Bob Burrow. He averaged over 16 per game for his UK career.

And there's no way Slone could guard McGee, Sosa, nor Preston Knowles. My guess is Pitino's boys harrass Kentucky's PG's into 10+ turnovers because they're at home and, while at home, often get the whistle (or lack of) in their favor. (That's Pitino's legacy, along with the 3-point shot and why he should be in the college basketball HoF. He perceived that officials often grow tired or get intimidated by good coaches because they're whistling fouls on every possession. They swallow their whistles in some games, causing that push and pull press to become nigh impossible to play over ot through.

(When games are called tight, Pitino's teams struggle. Always did at UK, and now, UL.)

Anyway, Patterson struggles against UL much like he did last season (6 TO's) and the Cardinals win an ugly one, 97-68.

[cumberlandreds]

Favorite ever? Mashburn and Chuck Hayes.

My favorite was Kyle Macy. UK never had a smarter player than him.

Some others:

Kevin Grevey
Jack Givens
Jamal Mashburn
Chuck Hayes and many,many more......

[dabvu2498]

Of All-Time??? Ever heard of Dan Issel, Frank Ramsey, Cliff Hagan, Kenny Walker, Sam Bowie or Jack Givens... All better rebounders than Hayes or Prickett...Although I love Hayes, he's one of my top 3 favorite all time cats.. Well we had been talking about "our" era. Though I do barely remember Bowie and Walker.

[cumberlandreds]

Best Dunker: Dirk Minnifield. No question on the hops, just the head.

Best Shooter: Louie Dampier. Leading scorer in the ABA history. If there were a 3 point line, he'd likely have scored 30 per game in college. At 55% to boot.

As to Kentucky this year-- they go as far as their lead guard takes them and no further. Liggins looked like the answer for a short while, but has regressed. Porter is a poor choice for anything other than back-up minutes and Slone is only an Appalachian daydream wrapped in red hair and floor burns. Galloway is the same player Derrick Jasper was for two seasons before becoming a Runiun' Rebel. If BillyG can find 40 consistent minutes out of the quartet each game, the Cats may go Elite Eight.

That's not likely.

I expect a 32 or Sweet 16 this season and another struggle to find a point guard next season.

Louie Dampier probably was the best pure shooter ever at UK. I didn't see him play while he was at UK but I did in the ABA and NBA. He had unreal range! I also saw him play quite a few years after he retired from the pros. He played on a Maraton Oil team that barnstormed around the state of Kentucky that would play against the UK seniors after each season. He could still shoot it in the mid 80's. He was playing against the Kenny Walker/Roger Harden seniors about 1985 and was drilling shots from just across mid court. He and Walker a real shoot out the game I saw. I'm sure both had over 40 points. Most of Dampier's was from 30+ feet.

[cumberlandreds]

Of All-Time??? Ever heard of Dan Issel, Frank Ramsey, Cliff Hagan, Kenny Walker, Sam Bowie or Jack Givens... All better rebounders than Hayes or Prickett...Although I love Hayes, he's one of my top 3 favorite all time cats..

One of the best rebounders I saw was Winston Bennett before he hurt his knee. He was as tough as anyone inside and had a real knack for coming up with a lot of loose rebounds. He was a great compliment to Kenny Walker for a couple of seasons.

[jesusfan]

Well we had been talking about "our" era. Though I do barely remember Bowie and Walker.

My bad... I should have at least read the previous posts before commenting... lol

Although, those guys didn't play in my era either, I am 24... But really appreciate not only Kentucky in my era, but the great history of the big blue...

I do agree that Chuck Hayes was a great rebounder in our era and you have to mention Magloire in that category... Gerald Fitch was without a doubt the best rebounding guard we have had... I can't think of anyone better, I know Rondo was good, but Fitch was an animal on the boards...

[TeamSelig]

Forgot to mention Nazr Mohammed. He was awesome.

[WVRed]

Little Brother U goes down again, this time to UNLV at Freedom Hall.

Pitino headed straight for the locker room after the game, didn't even go to shake hands with Lon Kruger and the Runnin Jaspers, err I mean Rebels.:D

[jmac]

Little Brother U goes down again, this time to UNLV at Freedom Hall.

Pitino headed straight for the locker room after the game, didn't even go to shake hands with Lon Kruger and the Runnin Jaspers, err I mean Rebels.:D
That was a sad display of sportsmanship by Pitino :rolleyes:

[jesusfan]

At this point, Patterson will OWN Samardo... However, I'm still a little bit worried about Earl Clark...

[joshnky]

Little Brother U goes down again, this time to UNLV at Freedom Hall.

This is a bad basketball team right now. No one can shoot from the outside, Samuels struggles against double teams, and Clark doesn't get the ball enough. The only thing that makes me feel better against UK is their refusal to play zone combined with their experience against the zone. The best defense against the Cards is to pack it in with a zone and dare them to shoot from outside.

Regardless, this is looking like an awful coaching job by Pitino. He was beginning to take some heat last year before the Cards made a nice run in February and March. If this team finishes with double digit losses followed by a mass exodus to the pros, it could get ugly.

[WVRed]

The best defense against the Cards is to pack it in with a zone and dare them to shoot from outside.


Ala Western Kentucky.

I feel better about Kentucky's chances after seeing Minnesota and UNLV pull it off, but I think the fact the game is at Freedom Hall and Louisville will be looking to rebound after last night will be too much.

One thing about it, I remember reading where Pitino made the comment earlier in the season that he didn't think Gillispie was much of a coach because he scheduled VMI as the first game. If it had been Pitino, he would have scheduled VMI later.

If I were Kentucky's players and were going to fight it out for Coach, that would serve as motivation.

[joshnky]

One thing about it, I remember reading where Pitino made the comment earlier in the season that he didn't think Gillispie was much of a coach because he scheduled VMI as the first game. If it had been Pitino, he would have scheduled VMI later.

I sure don't remember that. I can't imagine Pitino giving a rival coach that much ammunition.

[improbus]

This is a bad basketball team right now. No one can shoot from the outside, Samuels struggles against double teams, and Clark doesn't get the ball enough. The only thing that makes me feel better against UK is their refusal to play zone combined with their experience against the zone. The best defense against the Cards is to pack it in with a zone and dare them to shoot from outside.

Regardless, this is looking like an awful coaching job by Pitino. He was beginning to take some heat last year before the Cards made a nice run in February and March. If this team finishes with double digit losses followed by a mass exodus to the pros, it could get ugly.

What coach are they going to get that is better than Pitino? That seems really short-sighted to me.

[Michael Young]

This is a bad basketball team right now. No one can shoot from the outside, Samuels struggles against double teams, and Clark doesn't get the ball enough. The only thing that makes me feel better against UK is their refusal to play zone combined with their experience against the zone. The best defense against the Cards is to pack it in with a zone and dare them to shoot from outside.

Regardless, this is looking like an awful coaching job by Pitino. He was beginning to take some heat last year before the Cards made a nice run in February and March. If this team finishes with double digit losses followed by a mass exodus to the pros, it could get ugly.

as if ul is going to get a better coach than pitino . that would be hilarious if they fired him

[joshnky]

What coach are they going to get that is better than Pitino? That seems really short-sighted to me.

They won't fire him but it is the same thing Gillispie faced earlier in the year. Coaches at UofL and UK are expected to exceed expectations not under achieve.

[Blimpie]

I feel better about Kentucky's chances after seeing Minnesota and UNLV pull it off, but I think the fact the game is at Freedom Hall and Louisville will be looking to rebound after last night will be too much.
I'll bet that Jodie Meeks is happy about the game being played in Freedom Hall.

He is coming back to the arena fresh off his 46 point performance in the building. Meeks, as well as several other UK jump shooters over the years, have commented that Freedom Hall has superior rims than Rupp Arena.

[jmac]

I'll bet that Jodie Meeks is happy about the game being played in Freedom Hall.

He is coming back to the arena fresh off his 46 point performance in the building. Meeks, as well as several other UK jump shooters over the years, have commented that Freedom Hall has superior rims than Rupp Arena.

I have always thought Freedom Hall had great shooters rims. Hopefully Jodie will pick up where he left off last time. That being said, I figure the Cards will play their best game of the year Sunday so it will take a super game by the cats.

Joshnky, did you ever hear what the deal was Pitino not shaking Krugers hand ?

[joshnky]

Joshnky, did you ever hear what the deal was Pitino not skaking Krugers hand ?

Apparently, he was upset at the refs over a missed foul on the final play. I believe he was yelling at them while UNLV was celebrating and they just missed the opportunity.

Although it could have been handled better, it apparently wasn't anything significant. He doesn't have much of a history with Kruger and there wasn't anything during the game that would cause him to be mad at UNLV.

[joshnky]

That being said, I figure the Cards will play their best game of the year Sunday so it will take a super game by the cats.

While last year was a different situation I found this parallel in the Courier-Journal interesting.



But it is interesting to note how the UNLV loss eerily mirrors the home loss to Cincinnati just before last season's trip to Lexington. A potentially game-winning shot goes awry, Cards play miserably and suffer a bitter defeat, turning the showdown at Rupp into an almost "play-in" game as both squads were teetering on the edge of NCAA-tourney exclusion. Rick Bozich commented earlier this week that such urgency probably won't be the case for either team on Sunday, but given three unforeseen losses, the significance of UConn's home loss to Georgetown and the lurid shortcomings in the U of L offense, repeating or besting a 14-4 conference mark seems remote -- mapping the Cards dangerously close to or beyond 10-loss territory. Certainly not the envisioned milieu for the third-best team in the preseason polls.

Personally, I'm very worried about the Kentucky game. This is a Louisville team that when they have one of their streaky shooters hot, they are a tremendous force especially at home. Unfortunately, they've all been cold of late and the point guard play has been anemic. I predict it will be a single digit game either way as both of these teams play great defense.

[WVRed]

Apparently, he was upset at the refs over a missed foul on the final play. I believe he was yelling at them while UNLV was celebrating and they just missed the opportunity.

Although it could have been handled better, it apparently wasn't anything significant. He doesn't have much of a history with Kruger and there wasn't anything during the game that would cause him to be mad at UNLV.

As soon as the game was over, ESPN panned on him heading to the tunnel.

Pitino has had moments like this, but one incident I remember was while he was at Kentucky. Pitino got tossed in a game against South Carolina at Rupp with like 30 seconds to go in the game. South Carolina had the game won as well and the fans started throwing things onto the floor. Pitino grabbed the PA microphone and said "Please do not throw things onto the court. South Carolina does not deserve that and neither do we."

I'm curious if anybody else remembers that. Sometimes its a Jekyll and Hyde thing.

[WVRed]

They won't fire him but it is the same thing Gillispie faced earlier in the year. Coaches at UofL and UK are expected to exceed expectations not under achieve.

To be honest, I think Louisville got a lot of hype with Samardo Samuels coming in that probably skewed expectations.

He's still a freshman, and undersized at that. Samuels might be a better interior prospect, but he doesn't have the leadership or experience of a David Padgett.

I believe he could benefit from staying an extra season under Pitino. He has the talent, he just hasn't put it together yet.

[Blimpie]

Poetic justice. I find it ironic that the UNLV job was the one that Pitino was using as 'leverage' when he was negotiating the terms of his deal with U of L.

I remember that the UNLV A.D. thought he had Pitino signed, sealed and delivered for several days before Rick's people started avoiding their calls.

[WVRed]

This is entirely speculation, but I did read something that I believe could be a decent possibility.

Arizona is likely going to be on the market for a new coach, and it wouldn't come as a shock if Rick would end up on the list. I don't think he will be the coach in Tucson, but the ability to cut into a west coast recruiting area dominated by UCLA would likely entice both Arizona and Rick. It would be the hire that would put Arizona back in power out west.

That being said, with everything I have read regarding Pitino's love of horse racing and the Italian restaurant business, I doubt he would leave the Bluegrass State again.

[joshnky]

I think Rick's next move is to retirement not another school. He might shock us and retire early but I wouldn't expect anything else.

[TeamSelig]

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7923/s1051294gl8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/s1051294gl8.jpg/1/w800.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img57/s1051294gl8.jpg/1/)


My little UK fan

[joshnky]

The lack of fan chatter regarding this game shows me that neither side feels too comfortable about this game.

The first half went about like I expected. The Cards forced a ton of turnovers, slowed Patterson, but allowed Meeks to go off. As a Louisville fan, I'm pleased by the play of my team in the first half.

Also, this is the first time I've watched Meeks play this year and he is really good. I figured he was your typical streaky shooter who shoots enough to get his points but he had some nice moves to the basket. And he did that with the trio of Smith, McGee, and Knowles defending him which makes it even more impressive.

[WVRed]

38-35 Louisville at half.

Meeks with 14, Patterson with 8 pts 8 rebs.

Sosa and Clark have 9 a piece. Samuels sitting the bench with two fouls.

Turnovers has been the story, and Kentucky is already in double digits. If Kentucky limits turnovers, they lead this game and likely win. I'll gladly take a three point defecit into halftime though.

[WVRed]

The first half went about like I expected. The Cards forced a ton of turnovers, slowed Patterson, but allowed Meeks to go off. As a Louisville fan, I'm pleased by the play of my team in the first half.

Minus the turnovers, I feel the same about Kentucky. I'd like to see Liggins get more playing time and control the ball.

I have a feeling the second half will be more about feeding the ball to Patterson. As long as Meeks is hot, continue to feed him the ball, but get Patterson involved because we will need both of them to pull this off.

[joshnky]

The Kentucky point guards have done a nice job of watching Sosa drive past them. He is the difference in this game so far and he could be easily neutralized with decent defense.

[TeamSelig]

1:59 left, UK down by two.

[TeamSelig]

Amazing comeback by UK gets spoiled by a (ridiculous) 3PT shot from about 5 ft behind the line lol...

[joshnky]

Well, I don't think that was the shot Pitino wanted but I'll take it. Sosa really loves playing against Billy Gillispie coached teams.

Great game by both teams. Louisville weathered foul trouble and played great defense to pull out the win. If Kentucky can find another reliable scoring option outside the big two they will be a very dangerous team.

[cumberlandreds]

Turnovers was the difference. I don't know the final stats but I'm sure UK was over 20. It's hard to beat a good team with that many turnovers. They have got to find a way to keep that number around 15. Fifteen is really too many but most times you can overcome that. Also like others have said, they need to come up with a consistent third scoring option. Relying on two players to do the bulk of the scoring is tough and puts a lot of pressure on the two scorers. But I think things are coming around for the Cats. I think things are getting close to were this team can be a really dangerous team come March. I really like the toughness this team is showing too. You can't can't your head on losing on a 30 foot heave at the buzzer on the road. Those things happen. On to the SEC were I think they will do very well in the conference.

[WVRed]

Turnovers was the difference. I don't know the final stats but I'm sure UK was over 20. It's hard to beat a good team with that many turnovers. They have got to find a way to keep that number around 15. Fifteen is really too many but most times you can overcome that. Also like others have said, they need to come up with a consistent third scoring option. Relying on two players to do the bulk of the scoring is tough and puts a lot of pressure on the two scorers. But I think things are coming around for the Cats. I think things are getting close to were this team can be a really dangerous team come March. I really like the toughness this team is showing too. You can't can't your head on losing on a 30 foot heave at the buzzer on the road. Those things happen. On to the SEC were I think they will do very well in the conference.

21 to be exact, six by Jodie Meeks.

This game proved three things to me:

1. We really, REALLY, need a floor general point guard instead of a lead guard. Someone who can take care of the ball and set players up. This is where I really wish Kentucky had a shot at John Wall, and maybe GJ Vilarino is the answer. If we had a proven point guard, the turnovers would likely be in the 10-15 range, where we need to be.

2. As has been mentioned, another scoring option needs to step it up. I believe we can likely get somebody from the current mix of players that we have right now. Darius Miller, DeAndre Liggins Landon Slone (who did not play tonight), Josh Harrelson, somebody needs to take their game to the next level.

3. Outside of all of that, the fact that Kentucky went into Freedom Hall and only lost by three tells me that Kentucky is on the way back. Even though we lost tonight, there was definitely reason for optimism. Once Gillispie gets his players in, I think we will see a run and gun style that will rival Pitino's when he was here.

That being said, I can't help but think that if:


Patterson and Meeks come back next year (doubtful)
The current nucleus stays intact outside of Jared Carter graduating.
Matt Pilgrim becomes eligible
Incoming freshman class of Daniel Orton, Jon Hood, and GJ Vilarino


That this is going to be a very dangerous team next year and likely a top 5-10 team by seasons end.

[Blimpie]

Given Porter was completely inable to stay with Sosa tonight, I cannot fathom why Landon Sloane did not enter the game tonight....

[WVRed]

Given Porter was completely inable to stay with Sosa tonight, I cannot fathom why Landon Sloane did not enter the game tonight....

Same here.

I've been watching the DVR since I got home, and I still cannot see how Gillispie picked up the technical. The only thing I can figure is he thought Porter got fouled on the dunk by Patterson.

Anybody else hear anything on the radio? Clark Kellogg rambled the whole time oohing over Patterson.

[cumberlandreds]

Same here.

I've been watching the DVR since I got home, and I still cannot see how Gillispie picked up the technical. The only thing I can figure is he thought Porter got fouled on the dunk by Patterson.

Anybody else hear anything on the radio? Clark Kellogg rambled the whole time oohing over Patterson.

BG must have said the magic word to get that. But I have no idea what he was complaining about. That T really stymied UK's momentum. It gave UL a free timeout to regroup and that they did. IIRC,they scored 12 straight points after the T. Kellog and Albert did a poor job on getting the info out. I thought at first the T was on Patterson for taunting or something like that. Apparently no one tried to find out exactly what happened.

[dabvu2498]

4 points off the bench. Darius Miller has to get more of a sniff. He's the guy out of that bunch that has the potential to be a true difference maker.

[WMR]

Meeks still scored 54. :redface:

[WMR]

* Kentucky is in its 106th season of basketball.
* Kentucky is the all-time NCAA leader in wins with 1,980.
* The Wildcats are 82-17 all-time against Auburn, including an impressive 42-2 mark in Lexington.
* Jodie Meeks leads the Southeastern Conference and ranks fourth nationally in scoring (25.7 ppg).
* Meeks is averaging 30.5 ppg in his last eight games.
* Patrick Patterson ranks third in the nation in FG percentage (67.7) and 37th in rebounding (9.2).
* Patterson is the only player in the SEC to rank in the top five in scoring (4th - 18.2) and rebounding (3rd - 9.2).
* UK ranks second in the country in blocked shots per game (7.4), fourth in field goal percentage (50.7), fifth in free throw percentage (79.2) and 10th in assists/game (17.6).
* Patrick Patterson has recorded nine double-doubles this season and 15 in his career, tying him for 22nd on UK’s all-time double-doubles list.
* UK is 13-0 when leading at the half this season.
* Kentucky has not allowed an opponent to shoot 50 percent or higher from the field this season.

[durl]

Wow. Nice stats on how the Cats have improved their play as of late. They even got some votes for the coaches poll last week. Winning conference games by 15 points will do that for you, I suppose. Meeks' emergence seems to have given this team a new purpose. They're playing with more confidence.

Now if we can just keep those turnovers under control.

[WVRed]

Wow. Nice stats on how the Cats have improved their play as of late. They even got some votes for the coaches poll last week. Winning conference games by 15 points will do that for you, I suppose. Meeks' emergence seems to have given this team a new purpose. They're playing with more confidence.

Now if we can just keep those turnovers under control.

Turnovers really aren't as big an issue right now compared to what they have been, and I give a lot of credit to Michael Porter for that. I was wondering why Gillispie was running him out there every night and now he has really turned it around.

Four teams still worry me in the SEC: Florida, South Carolina, Arkansas, and Mississippi State. I'd say we may split the first two, and I am hoping we can win one or both of the next two.

If we can finish off Auburn tonight and win our next two road games, I wouldn't be shocked to see us crack the top 25.

[cumberlandreds]

Turnovers came back last night to the tune of 22. The Cats overcame them and still beat Auburn by nine. But you have to think if they keep turning it over like this it's going to come back to bite them. Probably on the road somewhere.
Nice game by Patterson and Stevenson. 21 points and 18 rebounds for PP, 13 and 12 for Stevenson. And of course the usual 31 from Meeks.

[WVRed]

Turnovers came back last night to the tune of 22. The Cats overcame them and still beat Auburn by nine. But you have to think if they keep turning it over like this it's going to come back to bite them. Probably on the road somewhere.
Nice game by Patterson and Stevenson. 21 points and 18 rebounds for PP, 13 and 12 for Stevenson. And of course the usual 31 from Meeks.

Last night had me concerned. It just seemed like there was no effort on defense and Auburn was extremely scrappy.

On a side note, there is only one unbeaten team in the SEC right now. South Carolina beat Florida on a layup at the buzzer and LSU demolished Mississippi State last night.

[WMR]

I'll tell you whose performance last night was extremely disappointing: DeAndre Liggins. He absolutely refused to fight through ball screens. Whenever he was in the game, his man ALWAYS got a good shot.

The way Florida lost last night had me laughing my ass off in my living room. :laugh:

[cumberlandreds]

I'll tell you whose performance last night was extremely disappointing: DeAndre Liggins. He absolutely refused to fight through ball screens. Whenever he was in the game, his man ALWAYS got a good shot.

The way Florida lost last night had me laughing my ass off in my living room. :laugh:

That USC win was equal to a hail mary pass on last play of a football game to win. Just incredible!
Liggins has me really wondering if he will be around next season. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he transfers after this season but you never know what these kids are thinking.

[WVRed]

I've got to admit, every time Liggins screws up, I start laughing because no sooner does it happen than you see Michael Porter being sent back to check in. It's the same thing every night.

Darius Miller did impress me at times last night. I'm hoping for one game this year to see him explode for about 15-20 points. With Meeks and Patterson controlling the scoring though, I doubt that will happen. It would solve the third scorer problems.

[WMR]

Yeah I wish BCG would give more clock to Miller and a bit less to Harris. Harris makes me nervous whenever he tries to drive and it usually ends up with either a bad shot or a TO. Miller could take this team much further than Ramon.

[Javy Pornstache]

Harris is a solid defender, but makes me nervous anytime he shoots... or dribbles... or passes... or how he dips his front shoulder EVERY TIME he drives to the basket off the baseline, and he either charges or bounces it off his knee. Really good kid, good spokesperson for the team, but I've got to think Miller needs more of a look than Harris at this point.

[WMR]

Harris is a solid defender, but makes me nervous anytime he shoots... or dribbles... or passes... or how he dips his front shoulder EVERY TIME he drives to the basket off the baseline, and he either charges or bounces it off his knee. Really good kid, good spokesperson for the team, but I've got to think Miller needs more of a look than Harris at this point.

Javy you make me laugh! I feel the exact same way about him.

I met him when I was going to the movies at Regal one night and you're right, you couldn't meet a nicer kid. Talked with him for a good five minutes about the program. Just a super nice guy. Still makes me nervous as hell when he does ... ... ANYTHING. :D

[Blimpie]

After watching Perry Stevenson play last night, I really think he could be a key to our successes in March.

No, really....

[WMR]

I'll tell you who embarrassed me last night: Rupp Arena fans who booed Michael Porter.

Just disgraceful.

[WVRed]

I'll tell you who embarrassed me last night: Rupp Arena fans who booed Michael Porter.

Just disgraceful.

Might as well boo Meeks while you're at it, he had five turnovers.

The turnover distribution was pretty equal across the starters, actually. I don't really know if Auburn did a good job disguising their zones or if Kentucky came in thinking they had the game won.

[Blimpie]

I honestly feel that this has all the makings of a trap game today in Tuscaloosa...

http://www.kentucky.com/818/story/669845.html


Posted on Sat, Jan. 24, 2009

No Steele might mean more zeal
Gillispie expects Tide to play harder without star
By Jerry Tipton
[email protected]

After an injury sidelined Patrick Patterson late last season, Kentucky played with even more determination. Now UK Coach Billy Gillispie wants his team wary of that same — pun alert — steely purpose from Alabama on Saturday.

The Tide continues to regroup after point guard and leader Ronald Steele pulled the plug on his injury-riddled career earlier this month.

As Gillispie saw it, Alabama's 1-2 record without Steele masks the same grit Kentucky showed after losing Patterson.

"Nobody wants to lose the main guy," Gillispie said at a news conference on Friday. "... Different things trigger enthusiasm. Different things trigger eagerness to play. Different things trigger a little tweak in the mind-set."

Gillispie recalled an incident early in his coaching career in which the opponent overcame the suspension of its leading scorer to win.

"We slept a little bit on that one," he said. "... It doesn't take much. All it takes is 1 percent (slippage), and you can get knocked off."

Gillispie made Alabama's 76-73 home victory over crippled Mississippi sound like a warning alarm.

"No way they could have played any harder with (Steele)," he said of the Tide. "I know they'll miss him somewhat. But they played with a new resolve, in my opinion, in the last three games. They have a bunch of eager guys, and they're playing extremely hard."

Mikhail Torrance, a junior from Eight Mile, Ala., has filled in for Steele in spectacular fashion. Despite starting only three games (none in Southeastern Conference play) prior to this season, he's averaged 22.7 points since Steele's exit.

To put that in perspective, Torrance had been averaging 5.5 points this season. He brought a career scoring average of 3.2 points into this season.

"He's the classic example, so far, of a guy who got an opportunity and, when the opportunity came, he was ready to go," Alabama Coach Mark Gottfried said.

Torrance wasn't even Steele's backup at point guard. He played the wing while senior Brandon Hollinger had the nearly invisible job of relieving Steele, who had been averaging 32.7 minutes. Torrance didn't even play in Steele's last three games.

"I stayed in the gym as much as I could," Torrance said. "I knew opportunity would come. I tried to stay motivated and stay in the gym. When opportunity came, I wanted to show how hard work pays off."

In the last three games, Torrance has made 22 of 35 shots (eight of 15 from three-point range). That scoring burst was a surprise from a player averaging four three-pointers per season, Gottfried acknowledged. The Alabama coach called Torrance's career-high five three-pointers in the victory over Ole Miss "a real blessing for us."

Alabama played Torrance, who is 6-foot-5, on the wing to make use of his versatility, the player said. But the move to point guard was like going home.

"Oh, I've been playing point guard all my life," he said. "I'm back comfortable."

Torrance's five three-pointers were the only ones Alabama made against Ole Miss. The new point guard was an 18.6-percent shooter from beyond the arc going into this season so it might be hard for Alabama to improve much on the SEC's worst three-point accuracy (29.7 percent).

"Sometimes you are what you are," Gottfried said earlier this season when a reporter asked about better perimeter shooting in the future. "You can't reinvent yourself. We may have a team that isn't a great three-point shooting team.

"We have to find ways we can be successful."

Gillispie noted Alabama's athleticism, beginning with wing Alonzo Gee and including heralded freshman forward and McDonald's All-American JaMychal Green.

"They have athletes at every position," the UK coach said. "... We haven't fared that well against quickness (in terms) of taking care of the ball."

After losses in the first two games without Steele, Gottfried sounded like a coach putting a serious downshift on team objectives.

"We have to make sure we keep getting better," he said. "That's our main focus right now. ...

"What we're not going to do is sit around and make excuses."

[improbus]

Last night had me concerned. It just seemed like there was no effort on defense and Auburn was extremely scrappy.

On a side note, there is only one unbeaten team in the SEC right now. South Carolina beat Florida on a layup at the buzzer and LSU demolished Mississippi State last night.

SEC basketball is slightly down this year. This weak conference schedule will artificially inflate UK's reputation and record and they will fall quickly in March. Guards win in March and UK's got one.

[WMR]

SEC basketball is slightly down this year. This weak conference schedule will artificially inflate UK's reputation and record and they will fall quickly in March. Guards win in March and UK's got one.

It's no secret that the SEC is down. UK's rep was and will be a tough as nails team that will fight you every possession and play great defense. That being typed, a sparkling SEC record won't 'artifically inflate' UK's rep b/c everyone knows that the SEC is not great this season. Also: don't write off the freshmen, particularly Darius Miller. This is about the time of the year when the "lights turn on" for freshmen, and I really think Miller is going to break out soon. He has the game of a guard/forward hybrid and could fill that need of another talented wing-type talent.

[WMR]

Ramon Harris collapsed in the locker room during HT. Coach G did not/will not come back out for the 2nd half. I respect the hell out of Coach G for that decision.

Cox will coach the 2nd half.

Game doesn't matter much now. Prayers to Ramon.

Edit: Coach came out about 2 mins into the half. Hopefully that means Ramon's condition isn't a matter of life and death.

[cumberlandreds]

I heard Darius Miller on the radio say coach G said all is OK with Harris. He still in the emergency room in the hospital but things seem OK. I sure hope. That had to be a very scary stuation. Especially since he had that bad concussion in December.

Another gritty and tough effort by the Cats. 5-0 in the SEC and 16-4 overall. Another double/double by Stevenson and another "ho-hum" 27 points from Meeks. This team is turning into a real tough bunch that is going to be a hard to beat in close games. Much like BG's last Texas A&M team. They aren't there yet but getting closer.

[jmac]

Yes it wasnt pretty but ...they got the W.
Alot of turnovers and close misses but still a win and that is the good thing about it.
Perry is really turning into a very dependable player !

[WVRed]

I DVRed the game since I had to work, but I rewound the game back to about the end of the first half and watched Harris on the bench while the announcers were talking. He looked like he was in a stupor. You could really tell something was wrong.

I don't believe Kentucky will be ranked this week, but LSU likely will be. That is going to make the home stretch against Florida and LSU critical to the teams success the rest of the season.

[jesusfan]

LSU will not be ranked if they lose tonight to Xavier, they are down 7 with 1:38 to go... We are at 16-4 (5-0) in the SEC.. I don't care if the SEC is down, road wins are hard to get no matter who the opponent... UT and Bama are two solid road wins... Wins over West Virginia, K-State and Vandy are also solid...

[jmac]

When the last AP Poll came out, UK was ranked 28th.
Since that poll, #21 Minnesota and #24 Florida has lost. Dont know if they can leapfrog any others (that didnt lose ) or not.

I have said all along, the problem would be when Meeks/Patterson gets in foul trouble on the road. PP did yesterday and they was still able to pull it out so that's a good sign.
Alabama isnt great but a road win is a road win and now they are 3-0 on road in SEC. :)

[dabvu2498]

Kentucky's rpi at 54. Only 2 wins over top 100 teams -- WVU and UT.

[jesusfan]

Kentucky's rpi at 54. Only 2 wins over top 100 teams -- WVU and UT.

You might wanna check your math again.. WVU #16, UT #19, Auburn #83 and K-State #97...

[dabvu2498]

You might wanna check your math again.. WVU #16, UT #19, Auburn #83 and K-State #97... You right. I don't think realtimerpi.com had been updated this morning when I checked it. UK's rpi is even up to 48.

[jesusfan]

As long as the cats take care of business in the SEC there will be nothing to worry about... Let's say a 14-2 record and 3-0 in the tourney to win it... That's 17-2 plus the 11-4 out of conference= 28-6 is good for at least a 4, maybe a 3 seed...

[Falls City Beer]

No way KY gets a 3 seed in that conference, especially with six losses. It's the worst big conference in NCAA hoops.

[jesusfan]

No way KY gets a 3 seed in that conference, especially with six losses. It's the worst big conference in NCAA hoops.

I guess we'll see... Kentucky, Tennessee, LSU, Mississippi State and Florida is not that bad of a 1-5 teams in conference...

Every single team could play at a high level in the BIG 12 where Arkansas beat both Oklahoma and Texas, guess what? They are 0-4 in the SEC....

Every team could play at a high level in the PAC 10... UCLA is vastly over-rated, LSU hammered Washington State who played UCLA and USC to the wire...

Every team could definitely play at a high level in the Big ten. Vandy played Illinois to the buzzer and Vandy just got whipped by Florida by 30 points... Ohio State lost to WVU by 30 points! (whom Kentucky beat)...

Guess what? Kentucky lost to UL in Louisville by 3 points on a last second shot... btw, UL is playing as good as anyone in the nation...

Kentucky is much better than everyone outside of the SEC/state thinks and only time will show it...

[WMR]

A Louisville fan doesn't think UK deserves a particular seed? Now I've seen everything! :laugh:

FWIW, Joe Brackets has UK w/ a 4 seed in his latest bracketology. Plenty of time to move that up or down.

[jesusfan]

Oh.. I didn't even mention South Carolina... They are 14-4 with an out of conference win @ Baylor... who are supposedly a top 25 team...

[joshnky]

A Louisville fan doesn't think UK deserves a particular seed? Now I've seen everything! :laugh:

FWIW, Joe Brackets has UK w/ a 4 seed in his latest bracketology. Plenty of time to move that up or down.

Let's be honest here. Assuming Kentucky doesn't run the table in the SEC, what do you think is the best they can do seed-wise?

IMO, if they finish with one conference loss to one of the top tier (Tennessee, Florida, LSU) programs, they'll likely be a high 3 seed. Two losses to the top tier probably makes them a 4 and a 5 if you make one of those losses to a lower tier (non-tournament) team.

Kentucky looks like they might be a very good team. The problem is that they likely won't face another top 20 team until the NCAA tourney.

[WMR]

Let's be honest here. Assuming Kentucky doesn't run the table in the SEC, what do you think is the best they can do seed-wise?

IMO, if they finish with one conference loss to one of the top tier (Tennessee, Florida, LSU) programs, they'll likely be a high 3 seed. Two losses to the top tier probably makes them a 4 and a 5 if you make one of those losses to a lower tier (non-tournament) team.

Kentucky looks like they might be a very good team. The problem is that they likely won't face another top 20 team until the NCAA tourney.

I agree with everything you typed. FCB's hyperbole about UK and the SEC just made me giggle.

I think if they ran the table the entire way (undefeated in SEC regular season and SEC tourney champ) they could get the #4 two seed. Do I think this will happen? Heck no. Too many tough games remaining.

I think a 3 is very accomplishable and a 4 is the lowest that would satisfy me.

If they lose two games in the regular conference schedule and still win the SEC tourney would they get a 3? I think they'd have a great shot.

[joshnky]

I guess we'll see... Kentucky, Tennessee, LSU, Mississippi State and Florida is not that bad of a 1-5 teams in conference...

Every single team could play at a high level in the BIG 12 where Arkansas beat both Oklahoma and Texas, guess what? They are 0-4 in the SEC....

Every team could play at a high level in the PAC 10... UCLA is vastly over-rated, LSU hammered Washington State who played UCLA and USC to the wire...

Every team could definitely play at a high level in the Big ten. Vandy played Illinois to the buzzer and Vandy just got whipped by Florida by 30 points... Ohio State lost to WVU by 30 points! (whom Kentucky beat)...

Guess what? Kentucky lost to UL in Louisville by 3 points on a last second shot... btw, UL is playing as good as anyone in the nation...

Kentucky is much better than everyone outside of the SEC/state thinks and only time will show it...

The SEC has some good wins but unfortunately those teams have followed that up with awful losses. Arkansas is playing awful since beating Texas. They're not even coming close to beating some of these SEC teams. Washington St is hardly a quality win for LSU who has lost to Utah and Texas A&M. Vandy lost to Illinois-Chicago and Georgia Tech and now can't buy a win in the conference. And to say the conference is good because Kentucky almost beat Louisville is ridiculous. I could just as easily say that Louisville had that game easily in hand if Earl Clark hadn't self-destructed.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is you watch these teams play and outside of Kentucky and maybe UT they aren't very impressive. And I recognize that lots of teams have bad losses and can overcome. Louisville did exactly that but the difference is that they staked their claim on a high ranking by beating highly ranked teams. The SEC doesn't provide that this year.

[joshnky]

All of this conversation is fun for debate but the conference season is only 1/3 of the way over. We'll know a lot more in a month.

[WVRed]

I'm predicting Kentucky will end up as a 3-5 seed.

I am also predicting that Kentucky will be an early exit in the tournament as well. Maybe not first round, but I don't see them getting out of the first week. This is probably my favorite team to come out in a long time, but the quality of the SEC and Kentucky's success against top ranked teams outside of their own conference worries me.

Of course, depends on the draw as well.

[WMR]

WV: it all depends on the progress of the freshmen between now and March, IMO.

[dabvu2498]

WV: it all depends on the progress of the freshmen between now and March, IMO. And more importantly, Patterson's finger. That has to be right. Still, this is not a team built for tournament success. Inconsistent pg play and lack of depth may make for quick exits in either end of season tourney. And yes, the SEC is baaaad.

[cumberlandreds]

And more importantly, Patterson's finger. That has to be right. Still, this is not a team built for tournament success. Inconsistent pg play and lack of depth may make for quick exits in either end of season tourney. And yes, the SEC is baaaad.

I agree it will take the right draw for them to advance very far. Teams that have really quick guards have given them fits. If they can stay away from that type of team they could go to sweet 16. But I don't think we will really know how good UK is until the NCAA's. The SEC is as bad as I have ever seen it.

[Falls City Beer]

And yes, the SEC is baaaad.

Yezzur. Double bad.

This season it's Big East, ACC, and Big 12. And the rest is silence.

[dabvu2498]

UK is 24 in today's ap poll. NR in USA Today. And Harris has been cleared to play immediately. Good news for him and the squad.

[dabvu2498]

Yezzur. Double bad. This season it's Big East, ACC, and Big 12. And the rest is silence. I think the Big 11 may be a little better than you give them credit for. Maybe not the top ten type teams but pretty deep with at least 6 that will be in the mix for tourney berths. But thats a conversation for the other thread.

[WMR]

Yezzur. Double bad.

This season it's Big East, ACC, and Big 12. And the rest is silence.

Much more reasonable post. :thumbup:

[Falls City Beer]

Much more reasonable post. :thumbup:

You honestly believe the SEC is good this season? You're a homer, but come on.

Does anyone in the entire conference have a mentionable win?

[WMR]

You honestly believe the SEC is good this season? You're a homer, but come on.

Does anyone in the entire conference have a mentionable win?

Dude have you read my posts in this thread? I've said numerous times that the SEC is down substantially this season. My problem with your first post was your contention that the SEC is somehow MUCH worse than the PAC-10 and Big 10. I'm not convinced of that at all. Jesusfan had a pretty good post comparing the various wins of the non-top tier conferences this season.

[WMR]

You know, I'm sure, about Arkansas' TWO top ten Ws over the span of a week?

[Javy Pornstache]

You honestly believe the SEC is good this season? You're a homer, but come on.

Does anyone in the entire conference have a mentionable win?

Tennessee over Marquette and Georgetown, Arkansas over Oklahoma and Texas, Kentucky over West Virginia, South Carolina at Baylor, LSU over Washington State, Georgia over Virginia Tech (not that I'm touting Va Tech as anything special, but the second they beat Wake Forest, I knew the ACC hype machine would talk about how tough the ACC was while ignoring the fact Va Tech just got faceplanted by the team that is, by far, the worst SEC team I've seen in years, a few weeks earlier).

Do I think the SEC is the best conference or even in the top three? Not by a mile. But EVERY year, the same thing is said, and every year, everyone acts shocked when the SEC gets five or six in the tournament, and nearly every year, they have at least one team make it to the regional final or even Final Four, which isn't bad for such a terrible conference.

[WMR]

Tennessee over Marquette and Georgetown, Arkansas over Oklahoma and Texas, Kentucky over West Virginia, South Carolina at Baylor, LSU over Washington State, Georgia over Virginia Tech (not that I'm touting Va Tech as anything special, but the second they beat Wake Forest, I knew the ACC hype machine would talk about how tough the ACC was while ignoring the fact Va Tech just got faceplanted by the team that is, by far, the worst SEC team I've seen in years, a few weeks earlier).

Do I think the SEC is the best conference or even in the top three? Not by a mile. But EVERY year, the same thing is said, and every year, everyone acts shocked when the SEC gets five or six in the tournament, and nearly every year, they have at least one team make it to the regional final or even Final Four, which isn't bad for such a terrible conference.

RACK HIM! :beerme:

[dabvu2498]

Here is what I see in the SEC -- tons of young talent. Young young young. Uk has no contributing sr talent. Florida has Hodge. Vandy has 0 seniors. Bama has Gee. Arky has 0. I think some of the success LSU and SC have had is due to the fact that they have some kids older than 19 playing. The SEC will be very good. But for now its just mostly inconsistent.

[WMR]

Here is what I see in the SEC -- tons of young talent. Young young young. Uk has no contributing sr talent. Florida has Hodge. Vandy has 0 seniors. Bama has Gee. Arky has 0. I think some of the success LSU and SC have had is due to the fact that they have some kids older than 19 playing. The SEC will be very good. But for now its just mostly inconsistent.

I'm with you.

[Falls City Beer]

ACC Hype machine? Is that anything like the Yankees/Red Sox hype machine?

It won't kill you to admit that the ACC is pretty much head and shoulders over every con., maybe including the Big East, which is the second best.

[Javy Pornstache]

^ Hah, yeah, it's not too dissimilar to the Red Sox/Yankees hype machine.

I definitely agree with dabvu's last post. And I think the ACC is certainly strong at the top with UNC, Wake and Duke, and I think Miami's pretty good. Still don't know if this Clemson is different than any other Clemson - they seemingly start about 16-0 every single year only to settle for an NIT bid at the end. This year's team does seem better than the others though, admittedly.

Big East is still tops, though some of the teams in it aren't as good as advertised, namely Georgetown and Notre Dame. ACC is second to them in my opinion. I don't think any of the other power conferences really stand out from each other from there.

[Falls City Beer]

Here is what I see in the SEC -- tons of young talent. Young young young. Uk has no contributing sr talent. Florida has Hodge. Vandy has 0 seniors. Bama has Gee. Arky has 0. I think some of the success LSU and SC have had is due to the fact that they have some kids older than 19 playing. The SEC will be very good. But for now its just mostly inconsistent.

While this is true, honestly, the SEC (barring Florida obviously) has been a very weak conference overall for about 5 years. The media tried to sell Tennessee to us for a couple of seasons, but no one was buying that swill.

[Falls City Beer]

^ Hah, yeah, it's not too dissimilar to the Red Sox/Yankees hype machine.

I definitely agree with dabvu's last post. And I think the ACC is certainly strong at the top with UNC, Wake and Duke, and I think Miami's pretty good. Still don't know if this Clemson is different than any other Clemson - they seemingly start about 16-0 every single year only to settle for an NIT bid at the end. This year's team does seem better than the others though, admittedly.

Big East is still tops, though some of the teams in it aren't as good as advertised, namely Georgetown and Notre Dame. ACC is second to them in my opinion. I don't think any of the other power conferences really stand out from each other from there.

BE isn't tops, and that's coming from a diehard Louisville fan. The top of the ACC would clobber any BE team (though I think Louisville might be able to give UNC some trouble at Freedom Hall).

[dabvu2498]

Teams who have beaten SEC east teams that you would not expect: Temple, Loyola (Ill), Charleston, Texas A M Corpus Christi, UIC, and yes, Kentucky fans, VMI. All at home except UT at Temple and sc at CoC. I will do the west later.

[WMR]

VMI is a 15 seed in latest Bracketology. Pretty impressive for them, actually.

[BRM]

It's good to see a U of L fan in this thread. Makes it a more interesting read. Keep 'em honest in here FCB!!

[dabvu2498]

VMI is a 15 seed in latest Bracketology. Pretty impressive for them, actually. . As the auto qualifier from the CAA. They are still 100+ in the rpi. But keep spinning.

[WVRed]

It's good to see a U of L fan in this thread. Makes it a more interesting read. Keep 'em honest in here FCB!!

We already have Josh.

And for the record, I would take the Big East over the All Cash Conference.

[WVRed]

In other news, Mark Gottfried resigned today from Alabama. Doesn't help it was on the heels of losing to Kentucky.

A name to hear connected to that job is none other than Orlando Tubby Smith.

[macro]

Yep, I've heard the Tubby rumors, as well. I like Tubby as a person, but the record he has posted this year with Minnesota is a mirage, built on a very weak schedule. If Alabama's goal is 22-12, then go for it. If they want to make the Final Four, they should look elsewhere.

[dabvu2498]

Yep, I've heard the Tubby rumors, as well. I like Tubby as a person, but the record he has posted this year with Minnesota is a mirage, built on a very weak schedule. If Alabama's goal is 22-12, then go for it. If they want to make the Final Four, they should look elsewhere. Minnesota's strength of schedule rank: 69. Kentucky's 99. Spin spin spin.

[cumberlandreds]

VMI is a 15 seed in latest Bracketology. Pretty impressive for them, actually.

The only way VMI makes the NCAA's is to win their conference tourney. UK is the only good team they have beaten and no chance to beat another good one.

[cumberlandreds]

In other news, Mark Gottfried resigned today from Alabama. Doesn't help it was on the heels of losing to Kentucky.

A name to hear connected to that job is none other than Orlando Tubby Smith.

I really think Tubby wants to stay as far away from Kentucky as possible. He knows it would be a circus if he ever plays UK and going to Bama insures that at least once a season. I think Tubby will retire a Gopher.
FWIW,I think from top to bottom the ACC is the better conference this season. The Big East has some really weak teams at the bottom. DePaul,South Florida to name a couple.

[BRM]

Minnesota's strength of schedule rank: 69. Kentucky's 99. Spin spin spin.

I really doubt Tubby would leave Minnesota right now anyway. He's got two pretty good freshmen on the squad and another good class coming in next year. He's getting things turned around up there. Not much reason to leave at this point unless 'Bama wants to throw a huge pile of cash at him.

[WVRed]

The other one I have heard makes more sense if you look at it in context, and that is Maryland.

Tubby is from Maryland, and the Terrapins have not had a lot of success recruiting kids in-state to College Park. From what I have read, the new AD is looking for a reason to get rid of Gary Williams to rejuvenate the program.

I can't see it though, since Gary Williams did win a national championship.

[jesusfan]

How can anyone say the Big 12 is a tough conference... Are u kidding me? Oklahoma and Texas are two of the most overrated teams in the nation. Oklahoma has one stud and a decent point guard... And I don't see why everyone is discounting Arkansas beating those two teams, they are 0-4 in the SEC West, so if the SEC is as bad as much of you are saying, doesn't that mean the BIG 12 is also pretty bad... Especially, considering ARK is the worst team in the SEC right now... THEY SWEPT THE TWO BEST TEAMS FROM THE BIG 12! I don't know what else can be more clear to some of you....
Baylor is another team from the BIG 12 that is overrated... two words... South Carolina... Kansas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Missouri (Georgia had them on the ropes), Nebraska? Give me a break!

Now, on to the ACC vs Big East argument... It is clear that the Big East is deeper, but at the top the ACC is the top conference... Here is how I would rank the conferences and you'll see why the ACC is best at the top and Big East is MUCH deeper... I don't know if deeper = better or not, you make the call on that one...

I will agree with everyone that the ACC and Big East are clearly the top 2 conferences by a LONG SHOT... However, I am not at all sold on the BIG 12, BIG 10, PAC 10 being SIGNIFICANTLY better than the SEC... I think the SEC being inexperienced has more to do with it than lack of talent... Below I will list the SEC and in parentheses I am going to list something, you see if you get the picture of the SEC..

ACC
1. Duke (right now)
2. Wake Forest
3. UNC
4. Clemson
5. Virginia Tech
6. Miami
7. Florida State
8. Boston College
9. NC State
10. Maryland
11. Virginia
12. GA. Tech

BIG East
1. UCONN
2. Louisville
3. PITT
4. Marquette
5. Syracuse
6. West Virginia
7. Notre Dame
8. Georgetown
9. Villanova
10. Providence
11. Cincinnati
12. St. Johns
13. Seton Hall
14. South Florida
15. Depaul
16. Rutgers


SEC
1. Kentucky (0 contributing seniors)
2. LSU (Veteran team)
3. Florida (0 seniors on team, only 2 juniors)
4. Tennessee (0 seniors on team)
5. Mississippi State (0 contributing seniors)
6. South Carolina (Veteran team)
7. Auburn (2 contributing seniors)
8. Vanderbilt (0 seniors on team)
9. Alabama (2 contributing seniors)
10. Arkansas (0 seniors on team)
11. Ole Miss (0 contributing seniors)
12. Georgia (2 contributing seniors)

[joshnky]

How can anyone say the Big 12 is a tough conference... Are u kidding me? Oklahoma and Texas are two of the most overrated teams in the nation.

I totally agree. Oklahoma benefits from the HUGE love to Griffin and Texas seems to always float around the bottom of the top ten and never do much come tournament time. This Oklahoma team is not significantly better or different than the Oklahoma team that Louisville handled easily in the tournament last year. I would love for Louisville to get placed in the same bracket as them come tourney time.

On the ACC-Big East argument, both are great conferences. It's really difficult to compare the two because the Big East is more of a tough defensive league and the ACC is more of a high-flying offensive league. The top three in the ACC look awfully tough but UConn, Pitt, and lately Louisville are very close.

[cumberlandreds]

The other one I have heard makes more sense if you look at it in context, and that is Maryland.

Tubby is from Maryland, and the Terrapins have not had a lot of success recruiting kids in-state to College Park. From what I have read, the new AD is looking for a reason to get rid of Gary Williams to rejuvenate the program.

I can't see it though, since Gary Williams did win a national championship.

Williams is in some trouble. He's really let his program go down the drain. Not much talent and hardly any size either. I think he's rested on his laurels since the NCAA championship. That 40 point loss to Duke was big wake up call to the Maryland alumni. He may survive this season but not another one like this. Also he hasn't been to the NCAA's in about three seasons now and won't be this year unless they win the ACC tourney.

[Blimpie]

In other news, Mark Gottfried resigned today from Alabama. Doesn't help it was on the heels of losing to Kentucky.

A name to hear connected to that job is none other than Orlando Tubby Smith.FWIW, yesterday, I heard a report out of Tuscon that said the University of Arizona may have interest in speaking to Tubby about coaching the 'other' Wildcats.

[BRM]

Tubby seems to be an awfully popular name for all these openings. Amazing considering he apparently sucks rocks as a coach.

I still say he doesn't leave Minnesota right now.

[jesusfan]

Tubby seems to be an awfully popular name for all these openings. Amazing considering he apparently sucks rocks as a coach.

I still say he doesn't leave Minnesota right now.

He doesn't suck as a coach at all... Any Kentucky fan that tells you that are crazy.. He had a couple bad recruiting years and it started to go downhill... I really do think the Morris, Rondo, Crawford, Bradley class ruined him with big time recruits, also Rashad Carruth didn't help either...

[IslandRed]

SEC
1. Kentucky (0 contributing seniors)
2. LSU (Veteran team)
3. Florida (0 seniors on team, only 2 juniors)
4. Tennessee (0 seniors on team)
5. Mississippi State (0 contributing seniors)
6. South Carolina (Veteran team)
7. Auburn (2 contributing seniors)
8. Vanderbilt (0 seniors on team)
9. Alabama (2 contributing seniors)
10. Arkansas (0 seniors on team)
11. Ole Miss (0 contributing seniors)
12. Georgia (2 contributing seniors)

The problem with a measure like that is, in college basketball, "contributing seniors" are usually role players, the occasional Tyler Hansbrough excepted. Between attrition and the NBA, premium talent tends not to play all four years; the guys who get a team deep into the tournament are usually sophomores and juniors. To play the inexperience card, a better measure would be to show the SEC is playing more freshmen than is typical.

[WVRed]

He doesn't suck as a coach at all... Any Kentucky fan that tells you that are crazy.. He had a couple bad recruiting years and it started to go downhill... I really do think the Morris, Rondo, Crawford, Bradley class ruined him with big time recruits, also Rashad Carruth didn't help either...

Bingo.

Even with the top recruits he was successful with, you could make the case that his style of play stifled their abilities. I look at Keith Bogans and Tayshaun Prince and wonder what might have been if Gillispie was the coach.

[jesusfan]

Bingo.

Even with the top recruits he was successful with, you could make the case that his style of play stifled their abilities. I look at Keith Bogans and Tayshaun Prince and wonder what might have been if Gillispie was the coach.

Think about Rondo and how good he would've been in Gillispie's system... wow!

[WMR]

Bingo.

Even with the top recruits he was successful with, you could make the case that his style of play stifled their abilities. I look at Keith Bogans and Tayshaun Prince and wonder what might have been if Gillispie was the coach.

Kelenna. Azubuike.

I would've loved to have seen the type of player BCG would've molded him into at UK.

[jesusfan]

The problem with a measure like that is, in college basketball, "contributing seniors" are usually role players, the occasional Tyler Hansbrough excepted. Between attrition and the NBA, premium talent tends not to play all four years; the guys who get a team deep into the tournament are usually sophomores and juniors. To play the inexperience card, a better measure would be to show the SEC is playing more freshmen than is typical.

I agree with you to a certain extent... I was just underlining the fact that the SEC is VERY young and that is a big part of why the SEC is "down" this year... When you think about the freshman in this league: Liggins/Miller for Kentucky, Hopson/Tatum UT, Erving Walker/Kenny Kadji Florida, Taylor/Tinsley for Vandy, Trey Thompkins for Georgia, Fortson/Clark/Sanchez Arkansas, Dee Bost Miss St., Green for Alabama... Many of those guys are asked to do a lot for their respective teams, especially Arkansas and Vandy. This league will be much improved over the next few seasons.

[Blimpie]

Here are some updated notes to get your juices flowing for tonight's ESPN matchup with Ole Miss:


• Kentucky is in its 106th season of basketball.
• Kentucky is the all-time NCAA leader in wins with 1,982.
• The Wildcats are 95-11 all-time against Ole Miss, including a 25-8 mark in Oxford.
• Jodie Meeks leads the Southeastern Conference and ranks third nationally in scoring (26.1 ppg).
• Meeks is averaging 31.0 ppg in SEC games.
• Patrick Patterson ranks fifth in the nation in FG percentage (66.4) and 29th in rebounding (9.4).
• Patterson is one of two players in the SEC to rank in the top 10 in scoring (6th - 17.7) and rebounding (2nd - 9.4).
• UK ranks second in the country in blocked shots per game (7.5), third in free throw percentage (79.0),fourth field goal percentage (50.2) and 15th in assists/game (17.1).
• Patrick Patterson has recorded 10 double-doubles this season and 16 in his career, tying him for 20th on UK’s all-time double-doubles list.
• UK is 14-0 when leading at the half this season.
• Kentucky has not allowed an opponent to shoot 50 percent or higher from the field this season.

[TeamSelig]

What is up with the addiction of non-UK fans to always throw Tubby in our face? He wasn't working for us. We expect more success from our coach. We wanted him out and someone new. Is it that hard to understand?

[joshnky]

What is up with the addiction of non-UK fans to always throw Tubby in our face? He wasn't working for us. We expect more success from our coach. We wanted him out and someone new. Is it that hard to understand?

Two things. One, we just enjoy poking and prodding and getting reactions just like this one. Two, Gillispie has done little to justify the serious man-love from the same fans who chased a very good (how good is debatable) coach out of town.

But ultimately its number one. ;)

[joshnky]

One other thing. There are some definite similarities in the Tubby to Billy transition to the Denny Crum to Pitino transition. Crum was a great coach who had seen the fan base turn against him as the seasons we "expect" were becoming few and far between. Then came Pitino who really did little other than make UK fans mad (which was excellent) until the surprising 2005 team and now this years team.

[WMR]

One other thing. There are some definite similarities in the Tubby to Billy transition to the Denny Crum to Pitino transition. Crum was a great coach who had seen the fan base turn against him as the seasons we "expect" were becoming few and far between. Then came Pitino who really did little other than make UK fans mad (which was excellent) until the surprising 2005 team and now this years team.

I love that Little Brother has expectations at all. It's so cute.

[TeamSelig]

Not much a reaction from me here other than annoyance, I'm just curious of the motive aside from trolling. But they can keep convincing themselves that BG is the devil and Tubby was the best coach in history. I'm sure the same people constantly bringing him up thought he was amazing when he wore blue.

[macro]

Minnesota's strength of schedule rank: 69. Kentucky's 99. Spin spin spin.

I'm very surprised that Minnesota's SOS is that high, but regardless, I made no mention of UK in my post.

[Boston Red]

I love that Little Brother has expectations at all. It's so cute.


Little Brother? Ha! I forgot about that one. Good old Eddie Sutton. Always good for a laugh (and a few drinks).

[WVRed]

Nice to see where everybody's priorities are.

Kentucky did lose tonight, btw. 85-80.

As Jodie goes (and he struggled tonight), so does the Wildcats, but I was very encouraged by this statline:

12 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists.

That is from Darius Miller.

[BRM]

Not much a reaction from me here other than annoyance, I'm just curious of the motive aside from trolling. But they can keep convincing themselves that BG is the devil and Tubby was the best coach in history. I'm sure the same people constantly bringing him up thought he was amazing when he wore blue.

UK fans seem to be bringing him up an awful lot from what I've seen. More so than non-UK fans IMO.

For me, I just like to jab at WMR a little bit. It's all in fun from my seat. But if you see it as trolling, just put Josh, Dab and I on ignore. Problem solved.

[BRM]

Nice to see where everybody's priorities are.

Kentucky did lose tonight, btw. 85-80.

As Jodie goes (and he struggled tonight), so does the Wildcats, but I was very encouraged by this statline:

12 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists.

That is from Darius Miller.

Liggins looked terrible IMO. Patterson showed he can still be a beast though.

[Redhook]

Liggins looked terrible IMO.

I agree 100%. He's a turnover waiting to happen.

I've only watched about a half a dozen UK games this year and I think Liggins is dumber than a box of rocks. He's very talented, but he makes so many poor decisions it just boggles the mind. I know he's a freshman and all, but sometimes you just have to wonder what someone's basketball I.Q. is.

[BRM]

I agree 100%. He's a turnover waiting to happen.

I've only watched about a half a dozen UK games this year and I think Liggins is dumber than a box of rocks. He's very talented, but he makes so many poor decisions it just boggles the mind. I know he's a freshman and all, but sometimes you just have to wonder what someone's basketball I.Q. is.

Dabvu says Liggins is mental. Last night's game made me think he was onto something with that comment. Hopefully for the UK fans, he'll outgrow it because he is a very talented player.

[WVRed]

Dabvu says Liggins is mental. Last night's game made me think he was onto something with that comment. Hopefully for the UK fans, he'll outgrow it because he is a very talented player.

If anything, he is this years Ramel Bradley.

If I had to guess, Gillispie probably thought some of the players were getting the big head in practice due to being ranked and decided to bench those players most of the game. That would likely be the reason for Harris and Bradley sitting the bench, although in Harris's case there could have been problems with the whole Alabama experience.

[Blimpie]

I love that Little Brother has expectations at all. It's so cute...as long as you specify that those expectations are now just for the basketball team....

:cool:

[Boston Red]

..as long as you specify that those expectations are now just for the basketball team....

:cool:


I think us Louisville football fans have expectations for the football team, too. We expect to lose, mostly.

[WVRed]

I think us Louisville football fans have expectations for the football team, too. We expect to lose, mostly.

As long as Steve Kragthorpe is in charge, you might as well set your expectations low.:)

[joshnky]

As long as Steve Kragthorpe is in charge, you might as well set your expectations low.:)

Its a good thing the basketball team is playing well. That has overshadowed the complete self-destruction of the football program this offseason.

[cumberlandreds]

Nice to see where everybody's priorities are.

Kentucky did lose tonight, btw. 85-80.

As Jodie goes (and he struggled tonight), so does the Wildcats, but I was very encouraged by this statline:

12 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists.

That is from Darius Miller.

I thought it was just a very poor effor by the Cats overall. They just didn't seem to be into it. Stevenson and Patterson were out positioned and out hustled on the boards all night. They let Malcom White and the other Ole Miss big guy (I can't remember his name) basically dominate them inside. Also did a poor job of defending the three. If they gave a better effort and hustled more they would have won this game. Wouldn't have been an easy win because Ole Miss played a great game. This makes the South Carolina game a big one Saturday. They need a win to keep pace with Florida. It's huge for UK to be one of the top two in the division to get that bye in the SEC tournament. Without that it's everyone's going to be tight on selecttion Sunday.

[WMR]

I don't think it's fair to lump Patrick in with Perry. Perry played like hot garbage. His effort was pathetic. Patrick played as hard as he could, as he ALWAYS does, IMO. He just couldn't do it alone. I agree that the overall effort was horrible.

[BRM]

I don't think it's fair to lump Patrick in with Perry. Perry played like hot garbage. His effort was pathetic. Patrick played as hard as he could, as he ALWAYS does, IMO. He just couldn't do it alone. I agree that the overall effort was horrible.

I didn't really get that either. I was impressed with Patterson's effort. Stevenson, not so much.

[cumberlandreds]

I didn't really get that either. I was impressed with Patterson's effort. Stevenson, not so much.

I thought he got beat to his position a lot by the Ole Miss big guys. I agree Stevenson had a much worse game. He wasn't into it at all. Patterson, too, is having a lot of trouble with that finger. I think its hurt much worse than he or anyone else is letting on. So I probably shouldn't have been as critical as I was.

[WVRed]

I didn't see the UK-Ole Miss game, but I did see this little tidbit on the internet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrXeBAoF3sM&eurl=http://www.thedailygopher.com/2009/1/28/739141/billy-gillispie-wants-to-h&feature=player_embedded

[joshnky]

I didn't see the UK-Ole Miss game, but I did see this little tidbit on the internet.

No one has ever accused BillyG of being a class act. Although this doesn't really distinguish him from anyone else in his profession.

[WVRed]

No one has ever accused BillyG of being a class act. Although this doesn't really distinguish him from anyone else in his profession.

Something does bother me about that comment though. I agree with what Gillispie said, but its a matter of how he said it and doing so on national television.

I had read that Patterson and Meeks had been trying to help in recruiting efforts, and my guess is comments like Gillispies will do more harm than good.

[WMR]

The players thought it was hilarious. Personally I thought it was fine. Typical Billy G. He's loyal to his guys more than anything else in the world and he felt like she was disrespecting his boys.

[Javy Pornstache]

^ Correct. I don't really understand why people are getting bent out of shape about it. Most takes I've seen outside the Bluegrass have thought Gillispie was hilarious if nothing else, and perhaps right on, on top of that.

[TeamSelig]

UK fans seem to be bringing him up an awful lot from what I've seen. More so than non-UK fans IMO.

For me, I just like to jab at WMR a little bit. It's all in fun from my seat. But if you see it as trolling, just put Josh, Dab and I on ignore. Problem solved.

Nah, it's mostly you that completely derails the thread.

[joshnky]

Nah, it's mostly you that completely derails the thread.

Give it a break. Everyone else seems to enjoy this thread but you.

[dabvu2498]

Give it a break. Everyone else seems to enjoy this thread but you. Enjoy like a head cold, you mean? ;)

[BRM]

Nah, it's mostly you that completely derails the thread.

You're the only one who seems to have a problem. Like I said, put me on ignore. I'm certainly going to do so with you.

[BRM]

Back to actual UK hoops...I didn't have a problem with Billy's comment either. I laughed when I heard it the first time.

[WMR]

I put BRM on ignore months ago. RedsZone has been great ever since! :cool:

[dabvu2498]

I put BRM on ignore months ago. RedsZone has been great ever since! :cool: Is he still a member?

[BRM]

I put BRM on ignore months ago. RedsZone has been great ever since! :cool:

I can feel the love...

[WMR]

Is he still a member?

:lol:

[WMR]

I can feel the love...

:luvu:

I normally reserve that emoticon for Dabvu and Billy G.

[dabvu2498]

:luvu: I normally reserve that emoticon for Dabvu and Billy G. You flatter me by using my name in the same sentence as The Great Man.

[BRM]

Now would be a good time for everyone to gather 'round and sign Rocky Top as loud as possible.

[TeamSelig]

Since we're off topic I thought I'd share some old videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvRO2GE4x4M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RxFpVihLqA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1ihZ5xJSNw

[WMR]

holy crap I'd never seen that last one! :eek:

[Redhook]

holy crap I'd never seen that last one! :eek:

Me neither. That eruption came out of nowhere. That was outstanding!

[WVRed]

Kentucky loses again, 79-78 against South Carolina. Devan Downey hit a fadeaway with 3.2 seconds to go and Kentucky blew what I thought was a chance to get the win when Jodie launched a three from midcourt. The funny thing is, he almost made it.

They couldn't get the ball to midcourt and call time out, which would have given them more space to operate and could have gotten Meeks a better look, a better cutting lane, or even a potential look to Patterson. They just needed a two, so I don't see why Meeks launched it from that far out.

[cumberlandreds]

This game in a nutshell; UK has 21 turnovers and gives up 18 offensive rebounds. You can't do either one of those and expect to win. Even though they out rebounded USC overall 40-35 that's way too many second chance opportunities. There is some lack of desire that's happened the last two games because that's just getting out hustled. We'll see how BG can pull them out of this.

[WMR]

I'm sure he's as mystified by the lack of toughness, hustle, and just plain WANT IT of some players on this team.

The turning point today was when Perry picked up his 4th foul.

I'm not one to blame officiating, but they really did a hatchet job on Kentucky today.

[BearcatShane]

I haven't had the chance to see many Kentucky games this year, but how is Patterson doing? Any feel on if he will enter the draft this year? I'v always admired his play. Have a nice rest of the season, I don't mind UK as much as I once did for one reason or another.

[WMR]

I haven't had the chance to see many Kentucky games this year, but how is Patterson doing? Any feel on if he will enter the draft this year? I'v always admired his play. Have a nice rest of the season, I don't mind UK as much as I once did for one reason or another.

If the season ended today Patterson would return to Kentucky for his Junior season. I think he has enough aspects of his game to work on to be a successful NBA player right out of the gate (as well as a lottery pick) that he will end up coming back for one more season. (He needs to improve his face up game, ball handling, and mid range jump shot to succeed in the NBA b/c he will be going against a bigger man just about every single night in the Association.)

[BearcatShane]

If the season ended today Patterson would return to Kentucky for his Junior season. I think he has enough aspects of his game to work on to be a successful NBA player right out of the gate (as well as a lottery pick) that he will end up coming back for one more season. (He needs to improve his face up game, ball handling, and mid range jump shot to succeed in the NBA b/c he will be going against a bigger man just about every single night in the Association.)



Thanks for the anaylasis. I hope he comes back, I like watching him play in college, and honestly I think he will kind of dissapear in the NBA.

[improbus]

If the season ended today Patterson would return to Kentucky for his Junior season. I think he has enough aspects of his game to work on to be a successful NBA player right out of the gate (as well as a lottery pick) that he will end up coming back for one more season. (He needs to improve his face up game, ball handling, and mid range jump shot to succeed in the NBA b/c he will be going against a bigger man just about every single night in the Association.)

The one negative for Kentucky is that this years draft class isn't all that great. Patterson might go ten spots higher than he would in past drafts. Nbadraft.net has him going 17th to Minnesota. I see Patterson as a poor man's Elton Brand.

[joshnky]

The one negative for Kentucky is that this years draft class isn't all that great. Patterson might go ten spots higher than he would in past drafts. Nbadraft.net has him going 17th to Minnesota. I see Patterson as a poor man's Elton Brand.

I don't follow Kentucky close enough to know about Meeks and Patterson other than the fact that they're both probably first round locks after this year. If both come back Kentucky will likely have a top ten team next year but if they don't... uh oh, it won't be pretty. Will Kentucky fans tolerate a third "rebuilding" year hovering on the outside of the top 25?

[WVRed]

The one negative for Kentucky is that this years draft class isn't all that great. Patterson might go ten spots higher than he would in past drafts. Nbadraft.net has him going 17th to Minnesota. I see Patterson as a poor man's Elton Brand.

You are right, this really isn't the deepest draft. I don't even think Ricky Rubio is going to jump either.

Blake Griffin is really the only star in this draft, IMO. I've read reports where Brandon Jennings decision to head to Europe has backfired on him.

[dabvu2498]

Boys, this is bad basketball.

[WMR]

This team has become a chore to watch.

[dabvu2498]

They're on the bubble at best. Rpi was 68 going into tonight. More importantly, if they play the way they did tonight, they won't beat anybody the rest of the year anyway. Ugly.

[WMR]

They're on the bubble at best. Rpi was 68 going into tonight. More importantly, if they play the way they did tonight, they won't beat anybody the rest of the year anyway. Ugly.

No kidding. They play like they did tonight they'll be going to that .com tournament. :lol:

[WVRed]

NIT here we come...

[WVRed]

This is a possibility that I have thought of.

If anybody watched the game tonight, Patterson and Meeks are the only two real scorers we have. If you shut both of them down and hold them under 20 points a game, everybody else is afraid to shoot.

Well, except for Liggins, and he usually turns it over. Porter, Stevenson, and Miller do not really possess an offensive game that can make up if one or both of our big two have an off night.

I wonder if it is because the above mentioned players are afraid to take shots because they lack confidence, or if they are afraid Gillispie is going to chew them out for not deferring to Patterson or Meeks.

[WMR]

Coach wants them to shoot when open, he has said that numerous times. He talked about players passing up open Js out of the double/triple team of Pat during his post-game radio show tonight.

It's definitely a confidence issue... also, there's a weighing factor that must determine when they don't have confidence for a reason... some guys should drive instead of shoot, and some guys should shoot instead of drive.

[WMR]

Apparently there was a big brouhaha amongst the players in the locker room after the game.

Practice this week will be hell, I'm sure.

[WMR]

I hope a shake-up of the starting line-up accompanies this brouhaha. The current starters aren't getting it done. Time to try something else.

Liggins
Meeks
Miller
Stevenson
Patterson

First subs off the bench:
1. Galloway
2. Harrellson
3. Harris
4. Porter

And stop yanking Galloway after every little mistake. He needs to get some extended clock to find himself in this offense as well as on this team.

[guttle11]

firebillygillespie.com? For that matter, is firetubbysmith.com still around? Domain name changes aren't that difficult.

[WMR]

firebillygillespie.com?

Don't know any coach named Billy Gillespie, and NO I don't want my coach fired.

I wouldn't take any coach in the nation over Coach G.

Really lame post, to be honest.

[guttle11]

Come on, you of all people can't take a little bit of ribbing? I'm sure 99% of UK fans are out of their mind right now.

[WMR]

Come on, you of all people can't take a little bit of ribbing? I'm sure 99% of UK fans are out of their mind right now.

:lol:

Same reason I don't go to cats pause. Can't stand the "FARR COACH" idiots who spring up after every loss. ;)

EDIT: And I can take the ribbing, was just giving it back to you a little. :D

[WMR]

Moments after Kentucky lost its third straight game, a convincing 66-57 victory by Mississippi State on Tuesday, the Cats basketball team made its way quietly off the Rupp Arena court and down the long corridor leading to the locker room.

The looks on the UK staff's faces told the story late in Tuesday's loss.
Then the place erupted.

"We just had a huge confrontation in the back right after the game was over," sophomore Patrick Patterson said. "People said what they felt like needed to be said. People exchanged words, had heart to hearts and said what just needed to be said to get it out there in the open."

The entire roster, by all accounts, contributed their two-cents worth.

"Pretty much everybody was saying something, even the guys who didn't play today," Patterson said. "Everyone had an opinion. Everyone had a statement to say whether it was about the game or about individual play or team play."

Patterson declined to give specifics, but reviewed the themes of the so-called "huge confrontation."

"Just talking about passion, about playing soft, not playing like we have been playing, not playing like Kentucky, about people acting scared. Just a whole variety of things," he said. "No one was scared to say what they felt like needed to be said. No one cared about anybody's feelings. What needed to be said needed to be said."

The one person who did not speak was coach Billy Gillispie.

"Oh yeah, coach was in there," Patterson said. "He just sat back and let it go."

After opening SEC play 5-0, Kentucky had improved to 16-4 overall and moved into the Top 25 poll for the first time this season. But three straight losses, all in games where the Cats were favored, has sunk UK to 5-3 and in danger of missing the NCAA Tournament. The Cats still have road trips to Arkansas, Vanderbilt, South Carolina and Florida and home dates with Florida, Tennessee and SEC West leading LSU.

The question that remains is whether the locker room blow up will help as Kentucky goes into hiding for seven days before a home date with rival Florida on Feb. 10.

"I think it was desperately needed," Patterson said. "It could have happened after the Ole Miss game. It could have happened after the South Carolina game. But better late than never. Now that it's out there the only thing to do is correct everything and come play."

And play like their basketball season depends on it, because it just might.

"It's a do-or-die situation," Patterson said. "We all believe that we do need to beat Floirda. No exceptions. No if, and or buts. We have to win against Florida.

"We all need to be excited and we all need to be anticipating the Florida game," Patterson said. "We all need to have that chip on our shoulder."

All that remains is to turn the season around. The Cats are exactly halfway through conference play.

"There are a lot of games left," Patterson said. "We will turn this around."

[cumberlandreds]

The locker room confrontation/meeting could be a good or bad thing. If they really aired their differences, got their heads together and a true leader emerged then it could be a good thing. But if all they did was finger pointing then nothing good came from it. We will find out next week if it did anything good at all. The Florida game is the season. If they play well,with some desire and emotion and win then something good can still come of it. But if they lose I can see the rest of the season going down the toilet. We will truly see, now, how BG can handle adversity within a team.

[joshnky]

We will truly see, now, how BG can handle adversity within a team.

This is a good point. While UK is not a great team they are certainly better than they've played of late. It will be interesting to see if he can turn around an underacheiving team.

[WMR]

It certainly couldn't make things any worse.

[Chip R]

I'm sure 99% of UK fans are out of their mind.


Fixed that for you. ;)

[macro]

The thing about the UK teams of the past two seasons is that, just when you think they're awful, they make every effort to convince you that you're wrong. Then, when you think they're one of the best 25 teams in the country, they make every effort to convince you that you're wrong.

Right now, I think they're awful, so using my twisted logic...

Despite the debacle of the past two weeks, I still think 5-3 is a feasible finish to the regular season, which would put them at 21-10 heading into the conference tournament. That would seem to be good enough for a seed between 8 and 10 or so, about what we've been accustomed to for several seasons now.