View Full Version : Merged: UK Basketball
Things will/are get/getting better, Mac.
We've still got a talent deficit at 2-3 positions.
I agree that the finish that you've outlined is very attainable if they play with consistent toughness, grit, and effort.
dabvu2498
02-08-2009, 11:11 AM
10-6 in this year's sec should not be good enough to make the tourney. It may be. But it shouldn't.
WVRed
02-11-2009, 12:28 AM
Wow.
Kentucky wins 68-65 but Patterson came down on his right ankle and was in some pretty obvious pain. Meeks hit the shot to put Kentucky ahead by three and Galloway fouls Calathes while shooting a three. Calathes missed all three (although the last one he tried to bounce back out with 6/10 of a second left).
My guess is whatever was said in that locker room meeting must have done the trick, because Galloway, Porter, and Harrelson stepped it up tonight. Without those three, Kentucky would have lost tonight.
FWIW, I am a Kentucky fan, but Hodge should not have been ejected. I couldn't even figure out what they were looking for at first. This wasn't anything like what happened with Chase Budinger. After he stepped on him, he walked back to help Stevenson up. I'd hate to read a Florida message board right now.
No offense, WV, but that's bull. I think he did it on purpose but even if he didn't, he KNEW Perry was laying right under his feet. Moral of the story? Watch where the hell you are walking when an opposing player is laying under your feet.
Awesome, awesome win. Loved seeing Calathes choke it away at the end. Also: Galloway is a PLAYER. His Jordan dunk was freaking NASTY. Kid has gotta be the new starter at the 3. He'll cut down on the boneheaded plays in time.
dabvu2498
02-11-2009, 12:54 AM
Can't blame Hodge. Mortals without superhuman eyesight have a hard time seeing Perry's bicep. I'm guessing since Galloway played well today he may get 5 minutes this weekend.
Can't blame Hodge. Mortals without superhuman eyesight have a hard time seeing Perry's bicep. I'm guessing since Galloway played well today he may get 5 minutes this weekend.
:laugh:
When you see a player laying on the floor where do you expect his arms to be??? Hodge has a clear duty there to exercise some caution. Apologizing after you intentionally step on someone doesn't mean you get a free pass.
hahaha, I'm going to make the bold, perhaps crazy, prediction that KG plays mega minutes next game.
macro
02-11-2009, 01:10 AM
Kinda off-topic here, but is Billy G as rude to all reporters as he is to Jeanine Edwards of ESPN when she tries to interview him at halftime?
Kinda off-topic here, but is Billy G as rude to all reporters as he is to Jeanine Edwards of ESPN when she tries to interview him at halftime?
LOL I dunno ... he's fine with Tom Leach and Rob Bromley, I know that. I wonder if she rubbed him the wrong way somewhere along the line or something b/c he seems to relish giving her hell.
Dabvu had a good idea: perhaps Billy G should eschew talking with reporters while the game is in progress. He's clearly not in a good mood during that time frame and doesn't suffer questions from the media well at all.
dabvu2498
02-11-2009, 01:16 AM
If Calathes had made those free throws there would have been cries for Galloway's head. He is still a neutral player at best. Too many mistakes despite the flashes of brilliance.
dabvu2498
02-11-2009, 01:20 AM
Billy D handled it tonight how I would. He sent the assistant to deal with her. Billy G handled her with a clear lack of tact.
Better a neutral but improving player like Galloway than a negative player like Harris.
dabvu2498
02-11-2009, 01:29 AM
Better a neutral but improving player like Galloway than a negative player like Harris. Do you realize that Galloway and Harris have the same number of games left to play in their careers? I'm advocating playing Miller more with this line of thinking btw.
Do you realize that Galloway and Harris have the same number of games left to play in their careers? I'm advocating playing Miller more with this line of thinking btw.
No I didn't realize that. :rolleyes::D
I actually am sort of fond of the lineup of Galloway - Meeks - Miller - PS/JH - PP
dabvu2498
02-11-2009, 01:41 AM
No I didn't realize that. :rolleyes::D I actually am sort of fond of the lineup of Galloway - Meeks - Miller - PS/JH - PP Galloway at the point may be the scariest option possible.
Galloway at the point may be the scariest option possible.
Also enjoyed seeing: Liggins - Meeks - Galloway - Miller - PP/PS/JH
How about some love for Michael Porter. Dude hit some huge 3s tonight.
dabvu2498
02-11-2009, 01:57 AM
Also enjoyed seeing: Liggins - Meeks - Galloway - Miller - PP/PS/JH Forgot about Liggins. That is scarier. We may see 4 guards if PP is out for any length of time. May not be bad with the lack of good 4 men in the conference.
Javy Pornstache
02-11-2009, 02:36 AM
Liggins is a weird case study... he only played like seven minutes; yet they were the most important seven minutes. Odd. That's Billy G!
Liggins is a weird case study... he only played like seven minutes; yet they were the most important seven minutes. Odd. That's Billy G!
Someone made the point that he and Miller both had extremely fresh legs which I thought was a good take. Certainly couldn't ask for a better way to get your young Cats experience and did Miller ever step up with those two huge FTs (on a night when everyone else, including Jodie, couldn't make one).
cumberlandreds
02-11-2009, 09:26 AM
LOL I dunno ... he's fine with Tom Leach and Rob Bromley, I know that. I wonder if she rubbed him the wrong way somewhere along the line or something b/c he seems to relish giving her hell.
Dabvu had a good idea: perhaps Billy G should eschew talking with reporters while the game is in progress. He's clearly not in a good mood during that time frame and doesn't suffer questions from the media well at all.
From what I have read elsewhere he has had his moments with Leach, being sarcastic and cutting him off. BG needs to cut off his halftime talks on air. understandibly he's usually upset with his team and he just comes off bad on TV. I haven't watched the game yet since it was so late,for me anyway. But it was a must win and keeps their hopes alive in the conference and SEC. I still think they need to go 6-1 the rest of the way and win a couple in the SEC Tourney to feel comfortable on selection Sunday.
Playadlc
02-11-2009, 11:19 AM
Kinda off-topic here, but is Billy G as rude to all reporters as he is to Jeanine Edwards of ESPN when she tries to interview him at halftime?
It was very strange. She spent about 15 seconds going though a long question...all the while Billy was nodding his head as if understanding. She gets to the end of the question and he says "I didn't hear your question". Then she asks a question concerning Billy having said something about stopping Calathes and his follow up comment about her "knowing more about that than him" indicated he had no idea what she was referring to.
He literally sounded like he was in another galaxy. Very odd.
WVRed
02-11-2009, 11:32 AM
I kinda wonder if she turned down Gillispie for a date.
Seriously though, Gillispie is not the most personable coach out there, especially during games. I personally don't care if our coach is a media darling, as long as he is winning. A lot of people (myself included) are still spoiled by Rick Pitino during the 90's.
WVRed
02-11-2009, 11:35 AM
No offense, WV, but that's bull. I think he did it on purpose but even if he didn't, he KNEW Perry was laying right under his feet. Moral of the story? Watch where the hell you are walking when an opposing player is laying under your feet.
Awesome, awesome win. Loved seeing Calathes choke it away at the end. Also: Galloway is a PLAYER. His Jordan dunk was freaking NASTY. Kid has gotta be the new starter at the 3. He'll cut down on the boneheaded plays in time.
If it were Tennessee I could see it, but the "veteran" leader from Florida who is one of the major contributors on the team outside of Calathes isn't going to do something intentionally boneheaded that would get him automatically tossed.
I only wish Noah or Walsh would have choked the way Calathes did. It always seems like Florida has somebody that you just always love to hate.
Javy Pornstache
02-11-2009, 01:54 PM
Someone made the point that he and Miller both had extremely fresh legs which I thought was a good take. Certainly couldn't ask for a better way to get your young Cats experience and did Miller ever step up with those two huge FTs (on a night when everyone else, including Jodie, couldn't make one).
Definitely agreed on that. I am pleased to see Liggins and Miller get crunch time minutes, and of course the contributions of Harrellson and Galloway. I just wonder if Josh would've even gotten back in the game had Pat not been injured? Either way, we won, I'm thrilled, and hopefully we can count on Harrellson, KG and the frosh continuing to step up as we try to start another WINNING streak.
Does anyone have a link to the video of when Hodges stepped on Stevenson's arm? I can't find any.
WVRed
02-11-2009, 11:26 PM
Does anyone have a link to the video of when Hodges stepped on Stevenson's arm? I can't find any.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csYy8al3BHE
Meeks sets new Bud Walton Arena scoring record with 45 today versus Arkansas.
He is currently 3rd on UK's all-time PPG season scoring list (#1 and #2 are held by Dan Issel) and leads Cotton Nash and Cliff Hagan. Pretty damn impressive.
Javy Pornstache
02-14-2009, 05:59 PM
Jodie's the man. Great effort today, obviously Meeks dropped 45 but beyond that, lots of guys did their jobs well. Arkansas may be missing a couple guys that helped them wax Oklahoma and Texas a few weeks ago, but winning on their floor without Patterson was great.
Georgia beat Florida. Good job Dawgs! :D
WVRed
02-15-2009, 01:12 AM
As Jodies Meeks goes, so go the Wildcats.
Blimpie
02-15-2009, 01:22 PM
As Jodies Meeks goes, so go the Wildcats.Unfortunately, I don't think Patterson is going to be right until the SEC Tourney.
WVRed
02-15-2009, 07:51 PM
PS: I meant "Jodie" Meeks.
BearcatShane
02-18-2009, 12:35 AM
UK loses to Vandy tonight. Where do they stand for the Tournamant now?
WVRed
02-18-2009, 01:36 AM
UK loses to Vandy tonight. Where do they stand for the Tournamant now?
I think they need to win 2-3 of their next four and do well in the SEC tourney to get in.
That being said:
Tennessee and LSU at Rupp
South Carolina and Florida on the road.
Everything right now is going to hinge on whether or not Patterson comes back. If they lose three of their next four, they will likely have to win out the SEC tournament and it may be too little too late.
I didn't get to see the game tonight but I heard the officials did a dandy job in calling the game. Didn't help that nobody else stepped up to help Meeks.
Javy Pornstache
02-18-2009, 01:49 AM
^ Yep, truly one of the worst officiated games I've seen in some time. I'm not one to rail on referees either, but jeez, this was bad. A team that's not that physical and paint-banging, like Vanderbilt, and they shot like 40-45 FTs tonight. Constant whistles all night, UK had EVERYONE in foul trouble. That said, even beyond the refs, it stunk, no coaching adjustments made at all as the game went on, a few guys actually played well offensively, Meeks did his fair share of course, Stewart, Galloway, Miller played fairly well, but nothing, I mean NOTHING, from the other starters. Harris, Porter, Stevenson and Harrellson (admittedly only played like 3 minutes before being yanked for the rest of the game) combined for like 8 pts or something, and their usual zillion turnovers plus fouls on top of that tonight.
cumberlandreds
02-18-2009, 08:44 AM
One of the refs,Tony Greene,did the UConn game the night before. Calhoun was all over that crew afterwards. That's part of the problem with offciating is that these guys will work one night in Connecticut then the next night in Nashville. Anyone would be tired after that travel and not give their best effort.
UK just had too much to overcome,no Patterson,bad officiating and the usual lack of talent. I'm more pessimistic than most on UK's chances to get in the NCAA. I really think they need to win four of the next five to give themselves a good chance to get in. The perceived lack of good teams(for good reason) in the SEC,IMO,will limit them to only three or four to get in the NCAA's.
WVRed
02-18-2009, 12:12 PM
One of the refs,Tony Greene,did the UConn game the night before. Calhoun was all over that crew afterwards. That's part of the problem with offciating is that these guys will work one night in Connecticut then the next night in Nashville. Anyone would be tired after that travel and not give their best effort.
UK just had too much to overcome,no Patterson,bad officiating and the usual lack of talent. I'm more pessimistic than most on UK's chances to get in the NCAA. I really think they need to win four of the next five to give themselves a good chance to get in. The perceived lack of good teams(for good reason) in the SEC,IMO,will limit them to only three or four to get in the NCAA's.
And now for the stat of the day.
Kentucky's historical winning percentage: 75.2 percent
Winning percentage with Tony Greene calling games: 64.1 percent
I've been reading where Gillispie and Tony Greene do not get along, but I have no clue why.
Gillispie got called for a technical and I don't even think ESPN had a clue as to why. That is becoming a recurring theme any time he gets T'd up.
joshnky
02-18-2009, 01:16 PM
I've been reading where Gillispie and Tony Greene do not get along, but I have no clue why.
Who does Gillispie get along with? It seems that the media, officials, and even some of his own players don't like him. The man may be a good coach (debatable right now) but he makes no effort at all to be decent toward other people and seems to hold a serious grudge.
On another point, at what point does his handling of younger players (Galloway and Harrellson) become an issue? At this point in the season, nearly every coach has a consistent rotation but not him. It has to be frustrating to play 20-30 minutes one game and then five the next.
Who does Gillispie get along with? It seems that the media, officials, and even some of his own players don't like him. The man may be a good coach (debatable right now) but he makes no effort at all to be decent toward other people and seems to hold a serious grudge.
On another point, at what point does his handling of younger players (Galloway and Harrellson) become an issue? At this point in the season, nearly every coach has a consistent rotation but not him. It has to be frustrating to play 20-30 minutes one game and then five the next.
His own players don't like him now? :lol: I'd love to read the source on that one.
Or is it just a Louisville fan taking an easy cheap shot on a program that is down right now?
Whether or not he's a good coach is debatable as well now? :laugh: Guess that loss to Texas A&M still stings, huh? How many times has BCG been elected Coach of the Year by HIS PEERS?
Galloway is a junior. Not sure how that qualifies him as a young player.
:laugh:
On the game last night: Not sure I've ever seen a more one-sided officiating hatchet job by a group of zebras. 23 foul shots for UK compared to FORTY for Vandy. And Vandy averages, what, 12 free throws a game? Just laughable.
Vandy set moving screens all game long. A UK player tries to fight through them and the foul is called on the UK player. Kevin Galloway brings down a rebound, gets raped over the back, and gets a foul called.... ON HIM!
I'm amazed BCG didn't get tossed. I'm actually amazed at the restraint of the entire team. I was hoping he'd grab the ball and punt it, throw a chair at Jeannine Edwards, and smack Tony Greene in his dumb mouth.
Vandy still might have won that game. Winning there is always difficult, thanks in large part to their ridiculous gymnasium, but the Cats never stood a chance playing 5 on 8 like they did last night.
joshnky
02-18-2009, 03:04 PM
His own players don't like him now? :lol: I'd love to read the source on that one.
Or is it just a Louisville fan taking an easy cheap shot on a program that is down right now?
Whether or not he's a good coach is debatable as well now? :laugh: Guess that loss to Texas A&M still stings, huh? How many times has BCG been elected Coach of the Year by HIS PEERS?
Galloway is a junior. Not sure how that qualifies him as a young player.
:laugh:
In the two years he has been here he has had one guy bail mid-season (Legion) and another refuse to enter a game for him. Maybe they're both headcases but that certainly validates the claim that some of his players don't like him.
I know you're a huge fan WMR, but what has BillyG done in his two years at UK that is impressive? He jockeys players around in such a way that seems ridiculous and then he turns around and treats everyone on the outside like crap. And the fact that Galloway is a junior makes his handling even more suspect. If he is expected to contribute next year he needs to get some minutes. Sure he has some good recruits on the way but will he handle them in the same way he has handled this year's freshman class which was also supposed to be good?
Sure I hate UK and actually enjoy the heat Gillispie is bringing on the program. Maybe he'll keep it up and follow the same direction as our football program. :D
joshnky
02-18-2009, 03:06 PM
On the game last night: Not sure I've ever seen a more one-sided officiating hatchet job by a group of zebras. 23 foul shots for UK compared to FORTY for Vandy. And Vandy averages, what, 12 free throws a game? Just laughable.
Vandy set moving screens all game long. A UK player tries to fight through them and the foul is called on the UK player. Kevin Galloway brings down a rebound, gets raped over the back, and gets a foul called.... ON HIM!
I'm amazed BCG didn't get tossed. I'm actually amazed at the restraint of the entire team. I was hoping he'd grab the ball and punt it, throw a chair at Jeannine Edwards, and smack Tony Greene in his dumb mouth.
Vandy still might have won that game. Winning there is always difficult, thanks in large part to their ridiculous gymnasium, but the Cats never stood a chance playing 5 on 8 like they did last night.
If it wasn't for the refs UK would probably be undefeated. :D
If it wasn't for the refs UK would probably be undefeated. :D
:beerme:
Oh boy, please tell me you didn't just use Alex Legion and his insane mother as an example. ;)
Believe me, I've been as mystified about Coach's substitution/minutes played patterns as anybody else... Bottom line, Coach is there in practice every day and we--as fans, or ANTI-fans lol--are not.
I'm definitely going to give him more than two seasons--one incomplete--before I pass final judgment on the guy. Hell, he was co-SEC Coach of the Year in his first season, dealing with players that were almost entirely from the previous administration.
The fact that he has turned Liggins from a headcase into a player who is showing signs of "getting it" means that their relationship is likely stronger than ever. Ask Acie Law about how he feels about Coach. Or Joe Crawford. Or Ramel Bradley.
If it wasn't for the refs UK would probably be undefeated. :D
Nah, this is the first time this season when the refereeing has been bad enough to contribute to being a deciding factor in a game. Notice, I typed that Vandy still very well might have won. Kentucky *might* have had a shot with some halfway fair refs.
dabvu2498
02-18-2009, 04:02 PM
Vandy was called for 20 fouls. They were the more aggresive team around the basket and thus drew more fouls.
dabvu2498
02-18-2009, 04:11 PM
Maybe UK and Vandy will meet again in March on a neutral floor. Say... Madison Square Garden.
WVRed
02-18-2009, 05:05 PM
Maybe UK and Vandy will meet again in March on a neutral floor. Say... Madison Square Garden.
Let's go with the SEC tournament.
Hoosier Red
02-18-2009, 06:05 PM
I'm not one to blame officiating, but they really did a hatchet job on Kentucky today.
On the game last night: Not sure I've ever seen a more one-sided officiating hatchet job by a group of zebras. 23 foul shots for UK compared to FORTY for Vandy. And Vandy averages, what, 12 free throws a game? Just laughable.
Javy Pornstache
^ Yep, truly one of the worst officiated games I've seen in some time. I'm not one to rail on referees either, but jeez, this was bad. A team that's not that physical and paint-banging, like Vanderbilt, and they shot like 40-45 FTs tonight. Constant whistles all night, UK had EVERYONE in foul trouble. That said, even beyond the refs, it stunk, no coaching adjustments made at all as the game went on, a few guys actually played well offensively, Meeks did his fair share of course, Stewart, Galloway, Miller played fairly well, but nothing, I mean NOTHING, from the other starters. Harris, Porter, Stevenson and Harrellson (admittedly only played like 3 minutes before being yanked for the rest of the game) combined for like 8 pts or something, and their usual zillion turnovers plus fouls on top of that tonight.
WV Red
I didn't get to see the game tonight but I heard the officials did a dandy job in calling the game. Didn't help that nobody else stepped up to help Meeks.
For a group of guys who don't like to blame officials, you guys sure like to blame officials a lot.
TeamSelig
02-18-2009, 07:28 PM
So referees are incapable of being a factor in who wins and who loses?
WVRed
02-18-2009, 07:29 PM
For a group of guys who don't like to blame officials, you guys sure like to blame officials a lot.
If you go back and read the posts by both me, WillyMO, and Javy, all three of us did say that outside of Meeks, nobody else stepped up. The refs could have called an even game and I think Kentucky would have still lost because of how they were playing. The officiating only made it worse.
Yup, and we're all talking about the same game. It's not like us talking about officiating is something endemic to every game.
dabvu2498
02-18-2009, 08:12 PM
Do you know how many times I have heard these same complaints from fans whose teams went into Rupp and got out shot at the ft line ~ 40-25? And usually that's because Kentucky was the more aggressive and physical team. That was the case last night in reverse. The question you have to ask yourself is why would officials be "unfair?" Some conspiracy? Personal grudge? Etc? Etc? Not likely.
Hoosier Red
02-18-2009, 09:22 PM
Yup, and we're all talking about the same game. It's not like us talking about officiating is something endemic to every game.
Actually the first quote was your's from the SC game, but I just found it funny. You all said you hated to rail on officials and four comments from two games.
Actually the first quote was your's from the SC game, but I just found it funny. You all said you hated to rail on officials and four comments from two games.
Whoops, my bad.
Well, in comparison, the Vandy-UK officials were much more egregious in their 'one-sidedness' than those in the SC-UK game.
SEC officiating has been quite bad for a while now. Gerald Boudreaux is a joke.
Hoosier Red
02-18-2009, 11:20 PM
Nah, I have no doubt the officials were bad. And I agree that they do too many games.
I just wonder if UK(or IU for that matter) has ever benefitted from a poorly officiated game. :)
The state of Mississippi did UK two huge favors last night...
UK is still tied for first in the SEC East.
dabvu2498
02-19-2009, 05:13 PM
The state of Mississippi did UK two huge favors last night... UK is still tied for first in the SEC East. I am not sure I would root for Ole Miss anymore.
I am not sure I would root for Ole Miss anymore.
Why not?
dabvu2498
02-19-2009, 05:31 PM
Why not? Nevermind. I didn't realize they had 11 losses. Surprisingly their rpi is better than UK's.
Nevermind. I didn't realize they had 11 losses. Surprisingly their rpi is better than UK's.
Ole Miss has a much better SOS. 14 vs UK's 82.
Blimpie
02-19-2009, 08:40 PM
Do you know how many times I have heard these same complaints from fans whose teams went into Rupp and got out shot at the ft line ~ 40-25? And usually that's because Kentucky was the more aggressive and physical team. That was the case last night in reverse. The question you have to ask yourself is why would officials be "unfair?" Some conspiracy? Personal grudge? Etc? Etc? Not likely.Those days are over, my friend. If you don't believe me, watch the game tape from the Florida game that was in Rupp a week ago.
That night, whenever a UK player got in same area code as Nick Calathes, a whistle blew.
dabvu2498
02-19-2009, 09:35 PM
Those days are over, my friend. If you don't believe me, watch the game tape from the Florida game that was in Rupp a week ago. That night, whenever a UK player got in same area code as Nick Calathes, a whistle blew. You should have also bolded the next sentence of my quote when referring to "those days are over."
Scrap Irony
02-19-2009, 11:04 PM
I was at a game an official came out on the floor with his fly unzipped. Those uniforms are tight and his tidy whities were flying big-time. When told of his faux paus, the official called a T on the coach. Thinking the official might have assumed that was code for something else, another coach went over to him after a time-out to explain.
The official noticed his mistake and went over to the head coach. When the coach asked him if he could then stand up to coach, as the mistake was obviously the referee's, the ref called another T on him and threw him out.
Told the coach he was questioning his integrity.
Another official I've seen stalk a high school girl out of the gym and into a hallway after she slammed the ball down after a JV loss. He told her he had the power to kick her out of the gym and get her kicked off her high school team. He told her she didn't want to cross him, as he had the power over whether she was going to play or not.
Later that night, the young girl played in the game and fouled out in less than five minutes on the court.
I know an NAIA official who admitted, after a few drinks, that he threw a coach out of a game because he didn't like him and that he purposefully called a bad game against a home team because of the travel involved.
If it happens at these lower levels, why not the NCAA?
Don't kid yourself. It does.
That said, Gillispie certainly doesn't do himself any favors with anyone being petulant. And he pays for it.
Actually, he reminds me a great deal of Bobby Knight. Same gruff exterior and difficulties with others, same blind loyalty by fans of the program.
Similar to Pitino, too, now that I think about it.
You should have also bolded the next sentence of my quote when referring to "those days are over."
Wow, Dab, really? C'mon man.
Guess you slept through the entire SEC season last year and all of BCG's tenure at A&M?
WVRed
02-20-2009, 12:20 PM
That said, Gillispie certainly doesn't do himself any favors with anyone being petulant. And he pays for it.
Actually, he reminds me a great deal of Bobby Knight. Same gruff exterior and difficulties with others, same blind loyalty by fans of the program.
Similar to Pitino, too, now that I think about it.
Thing is, Pitino can get very hotheaded when it comes to officiating. Bobby Knight is pretty well documented as well.
In the year and a half Gillispie has been at Kentucky, the only time I ever saw him go ballistic on an official was the end of the Georgia game in last years SEC tournament, and deservedly so. He can say something completely snide and look innocent while doing it, and I think that is where most of his technicals come from and why UK can't get any calls.
I'm curious, but I think Tony Greene was a lot friendlier to Kentucky when Tubby Smith was here. Anybody else remember?
cumberlandreds
02-20-2009, 02:46 PM
Thing is, Pitino can get very hotheaded when it comes to officiating. Bobby Knight is pretty well documented as well.
In the year and a half Gillispie has been at Kentucky, the only time I ever saw him go ballistic on an official was the end of the Georgia game in last years SEC tournament, and deservedly so. He can say something completely snide and look innocent while doing it, and I think that is where most of his technicals come from and why UK can't get any calls.
I'm curious, but I think Tony Greene was a lot friendlier to Kentucky when Tubby Smith was here. Anybody else remember?
I don't really remember Tubby's and Greene's relationship as to his refereeing. What Scrap Irony said is very true. I have seen it from the junior high level all the way to the pros. Some refs will carry a grudge and will call the games to effect their outcome. I think the higher up the chain you go the less this happens though. There are some on the Internet boards think the black refs have in for Kentucky because of how they perceive that Tubby was treated at Kentucky. I don't buy this and don't think it's true at all. The best thing BCG can do is to not publicly chastise the refereeing. He's not that I have read because if he starts I really do think their will be some paybacks from all the refs.
WVRed
02-20-2009, 09:55 PM
I think about the worst officiated game I had ever seen in high school was about seven years ago when OJ Mayo was a 7th grader playing in Kentucky at Rose Hill. The surprising part about the officiating there was that the head referee was one of the best in the district, but it was so blatantly obvious they were trying to take the game away from Rose Hill.
The best thing BCG can do is to not publicly chastise the refereeing. He's not that I have read because if he starts I really do think their will be some paybacks from all the refs.
I don't think it can get much worse, but even if Gillispie did criticize the refs, it would ultimately affect his checkbook. You can't question an official for anything or you will get fined.
I think Gillispie makes sarcastic comments that have ultimately stuck and as a result he is not a favorite for the officials.
Blimpie
02-20-2009, 10:35 PM
Even if BCG says nothing on the sidelines, his santimonious smirks alone are probably enough to draw the ire of every ref in the SEC...
TeamSelig
02-21-2009, 09:58 AM
I think about the worst officiated game I had ever seen in high school was about seven years ago when OJ Mayo was a 7th grader playing in Kentucky at Rose Hill. The surprising part about the officiating there was that the head referee was one of the best in the district, but it was so blatantly obvious they were trying to take the game away from Rose Hill.
I don't think it can get much worse, but even if Gillispie did criticize the refs, it would ultimately affect his checkbook. You can't question an official for anything or you will get fined.
I think Gillispie makes sarcastic comments that have ultimately stuck and as a result he is not a favorite for the officials.
what about that game (OJ's senior year I believe) where the ref completely flopped when OJ came up to him to ask about a call, making it look like he pushed him down
WVRed
02-21-2009, 12:24 PM
what about that game (OJ's senior year I believe) where the ref completely flopped when OJ came up to him to ask about a call, making it look like he pushed him down
That one was bad too. I believe in that case the ref was trying to set himself up for a potential lawsuit down the road. Everybody and their brother knew that barring injury OJ would end up in the NBA, so why not try to get a piece of the cheese?
Speaking from experience here in West Virginia, anytime a team goes to Charleston you can always expect home cooking. The refs tried to affect the outcome of that game, but when you have what many people at the time called the "best college team in the state", you really can't affect that much.
Blimpie
02-21-2009, 05:13 PM
Finally got some balanced scoring from the Cats in their victory over Tennesee today. Darius Miller looked EXTREMELY comfortable in the offense today when Meeks was having a hard time getting open. Patterson was only stopped by himself today (missing a few chippies), but essentially dominated the post play. All three players ended in double figures--with Porter and Stevenson barely missing the mark.
I am happy to see them hitting their free throws again and the defense looked quite impressive...Tennessee had nothing in transition and even less in the half court sets. I predicted the Cats would sweep the Vols this year and I hope that they see them again in the SEC Tourney. By that time, I think the subsitution patterns may have worked themselves out a little more.
Looked like a pretty tough team out there today to me.
cumberlandreds
02-23-2009, 11:58 AM
Darius. Miller.
He's coming into his own. If this years team is going to do much in post season they will need that type of scoring from him. I've really liked what I have seen from him. He doesn't force anything and seems very patient with the game. Unlike Liggins who tries to make too many spectacular plays. When/if Liggins learns patience he will be a good one too.
He's coming into his own. If this years team is going to do much in post season they will need that type of scoring from him. I've really liked what I have seen from him. He doesn't force anything and seems very patient with the game. Unlike Liggins who tries to make too many spectacular plays. When/if Liggins learns patience he will be a good one too.
Yeah he's going to be a spectacular 4 year player at UK.
Also, agreed on Liggins although I do think he has cut down on the ill-advised shots considerably.
Coach had a funny line about he and Galloway trying to set the world record for turnovers in the 2 minutes they were in together in the first half. :laugh:
2nd half he got it turned around. I think we'll see huge progression from DeAndre from his freshman to sophomore seasons. He's quite old for a freshman, remember.
dsmith421
02-24-2009, 11:35 AM
Looked like a pretty tough team out there today to me.
I don't know, Mick Cronin told me that you guys would be like the eleventh best team in the Big East and that Seton Hall would win the Atlantic 10.
I don't know, Mick Cronin told me that you guys would be like the eleventh best team in the Big East and that Seton Hall would win the Atlantic 10.
:laugh: :D
I don't know, Mick Cronin told me that you guys would be like the eleventh best team in the Big East and that Seton Hall would win the Atlantic 10.
Nah, the Cats would be at least 8th in the Big East.
Nah, the Cats would be at least 8th in the Big East.
I'm pretty sure Dsmith was exhibiting his trademark acerbic wit.
I'm pretty sure he's a big X fan.
I'm pretty sure Dsmith was exhibiting his trademark acerbic wit.
I'm pretty sure he's a big X fan.
I figured he was just goofing around. So was I. 8th is way too generous. ;)
I figured he was just goofing around. So was I. 8th is way too generous. ;)
Hahahaha. Well they came a lucky Edgar Sosa circus shot from possibly beating the team currently tied for #1 in their own building so I figure they'd be 3rd at the worst. ;)
Hahahaha. Well they came a lucky Edgar Sosa circus shot from possibly beating the team currently tied for #1 in their own building so I figure they'd be 3rd at the worst. ;)
Hey, even 8th would be way better than where my boys would be. The Hoosiers would be battling Rutgers and DePaul for the conference basement in the Big East. They would at least have a shot at not finishing dead last in that league though. They were and are a lock to finish last in the Big 11.
What do you think about....
Mike Davis - Alabama
Anthony Grant - Georgia
Grant would be a great hire for Georgia and the SEC, IMO.
Alabama is paying a steep price for probably one year of Cousins.
dsmith421
02-24-2009, 12:27 PM
I'm pretty sure Dsmith was exhibiting his trademark acerbic wit.
I'm pretty sure he's a big X fan.
Guilty as charged. I have tickets to the Dayton subregional and am hoping y'all are up there...I followed X to Nashville in 2003 and had a blast barhopping with the Big Blue Nation.
Hey buddy, X is the real deal. On a given night, if they're hitting on all cylinders, they can play with anybody in the nation.
dsmith421
02-24-2009, 12:44 PM
Hey buddy, X is the real deal. On a given night, if they're hitting on all cylinders, they can play with anybody in the nation.
You must not have seen us play the last two weeks! They usually pull it together down the stretch, though, so hopefully we'll find someone who can dribble before the 19th.
Hoosier Red
02-24-2009, 12:50 PM
What do you think about....
Mike Davis - Alabama
Anthony Grant - Georgia
Grant would be a great hire for Georgia and the SEC, IMO.
Alabama is paying a steep price for probably one year of Cousins.
I've always believed Davis can be a decent coach where the spotlight is off. Though he hasn't done anything particularly special in his time at UAB.
cumberlandreds
02-24-2009, 02:06 PM
What do you think about....
Mike Davis - Alabama
Anthony Grant - Georgia
Grant would be a great hire for Georgia and the SEC, IMO.
Alabama is paying a steep price for probably one year of Cousins.
I would love to see Davis come to Rupp and have a biannual meltdown. :)
I would think Bama could do a little better than that but he is an alumni and may get that job.
Grant would probably be good for UGA. But his teams haven't done a whole lot since their NCAA run a couple of years ago. I would think his stock might be a little lower now.
I would sincerely Alabama could do better than Mike Davis. Rolling the dice with a young "up and comer" would be better than settling for mediocrity like Davis.
I like Grant and think he'd be a good hire for Georgia. I agree with cumberland in that his stock may have fallen a bit the last year or two.
Boston Red
02-24-2009, 05:34 PM
I followed X to Nashville in 2003 and had a blast barhopping with the Big Blue Nation.
It was absolutely insane. UK fans were EVERYWHERE. Because UK was a #1 seed and its two games were pretty dull, the biggest roars in the arena the whole weekend came from the concourse during warmups for the Xavier/Maryland game. All the UK fans were down there watching Butler beat Louisville.
WVRed
02-25-2009, 12:38 AM
I would like to see Bama hire Davis and then see Cousins spurn the Tide for Memphis.
Kentucky is really where I would like Cousins to end up, but being the realist that I am...:)
Cousins PT would not be what he would demand at UK, as crazy as that sounds to type.
Awesome job by LSU to take care of UF.
Makes the game tomorrow versus South Carolina even bigger. Not to mention LSU on Saturday!
Kevin Galloway won't be with the team tonight. He flew home to be with his family due to the death of his grandfather.
Thoughts go out to KG.
TeamSelig
02-25-2009, 08:40 PM
not looking good so far, down 16... I just turned it on and they are getting spanked... the crowd noise is pretty impressive
My god this team is embarrassing to watch tonight. Just pathetic.
TeamSelig
02-25-2009, 09:22 PM
yeah i stopped watching
WVRed
02-25-2009, 09:28 PM
yeah i stopped watching
It's not even on TV here.
TeamSelig
02-25-2009, 09:35 PM
consider yourself lucky
cumberlandreds
02-26-2009, 08:31 AM
That was probably the most gutless,heartless and emabarasssing game I have seen UK play in what was truly a big game. This was for the SEC East lead and they couldn't give better effort. South Carolina took it to them and UK just backed down. You have to put a lot of the blame on the players. At some point you just have to man up and say your not taking this. They just tuck tail and hid last night. Also part of blame goes to the coach. Team just looked totally unprepared for anything South Carolina would throw at them. This isn't the first time this has happened in BG's nearly two seasons either. Very discouraging to say the least.
joshnky
02-26-2009, 08:35 AM
How many times did they block Patterson's shot last night? It seemed like there was a stretch of 3-4 times down the court where each time down they would throw it over the defender to Patterson and when he turned to lay it in they would block his shot. As a Louisville fan I found that stretch very funny. ;)
bucksfan2
02-26-2009, 09:20 AM
BCG is a good coach. He is just a very "my way of the highway" coach. I heard him say on the radio that he doesn't know which team will show up day in day out. Not a good thing for UK.
WVRed
02-26-2009, 09:46 AM
How many times did they block Patterson's shot last night? It seemed like there was a stretch of 3-4 times down the court where each time down they would throw it over the defender to Patterson and when he turned to lay it in they would block his shot. As a Louisville fan I found that stretch very funny. ;)
It should say something when Patterson finishes with 28 points and 12 rebounds, but finishes 10/25 from the field.
joshnky
02-26-2009, 10:18 AM
It should say something when Patterson finishes with 28 points and 12 rebounds, but finishes 10/25 from the field.
Yeah, I guy that shoots all of his shots two feet from the basket should shoot better than 40% (as he normally does).
Sea Ray
02-26-2009, 10:21 AM
Looks like SC is the class of the East SEC and they wouldn't even be on the radar without Devin Downey. I think of where UC would be if they could have kept him...
See...it's times like this if I wonder if Billy G is the right fit for Kentucky. I really don't want to come across as a "win every game, or else" kind of fan, because I'm truly not. We've seen flashes of good play but it fades.
The point is, I'm still waiting for some consistency from this squad. Aside from a solid run a month ago, teams with far less talent (and newer coaches) are embarrassing Kentucky. This shouldn't be the case.
Now I'll quit whining... :D
I just don't know what to think about these guys.
Someone who sat behind the bench last night told me that the coaching staff was questioning their manhood all night. TO TRY AND GET SOME SORT OF REACTION.
They truly played like a bunch of bleeping girls.
I can't remember UK getting their asses kicked that badly in a half of basketball and looking like a bunch of PANSIES. It was just completely pathetic and absolutely unacceptable. I still can't believe what I saw.
dabvu2498
02-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Don't hold back, wmr. Tell us how you really feel.
Don't hold back, wmr. Tell us how you really feel.
:laugh:
That was actually quite cathartic. I feel much better now. :D
Saturday's LSU game is looming large, even more so now. I'm looking forward to that game. I expect a full rebound from the Cats. Should be a good matchup.
WVRed
02-26-2009, 05:50 PM
I just don't know what to think about these guys.
Someone who sat behind the bench last night told me that the coaching staff was questioning their manhood all night. TO TRY AND GET SOME SORT OF REACTION.
They truly played like a bunch of bleeping girls.
I can't remember UK getting their asses kicked that badly in a half of basketball and looking like a bunch of PANSIES. It was just completely pathetic and absolutely unacceptable. I still can't believe what I saw.
Wouldn't be Marc would it?
See...it's times like this if I wonder if Billy G is the right fit for Kentucky. I really don't want to come across as a "win every game, or else" kind of fan, because I'm truly not. We've seen flashes of good play but it fades.
The point is, I'm still waiting for some consistency from this squad. Aside from a solid run a month ago, teams with far less talent (and newer coaches) are embarrassing Kentucky. This shouldn't be the case.
Now I'll quit whining... :D
:beerme:
Couldnt have said it better !
Anyone who calls themselves a UK fan should read this: http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/forums/2-true-blue-hoops/307509-some-in-the-fanbase-worry-me-heres-why.html
Wouldn't be Marc would it?
Nah it was actually just a poster over on TBK.
Wow, looks like AJ Stewart was kicked off the team today. Make that one more scholly freed up for next season.
WVRed
02-26-2009, 10:47 PM
Wow, looks like AJ Stewart was kicked off the team today. Make that one more scholly freed up for next season.
Kicked off or quit? The email I got from TBK said he quit, but I am tempted to sign up as an insider to see if there is more to it.
Also, considering we are only losing Jared Carter and now Stewart and maybe Donald Williams, my guess is the scholly will go to one of GJ, Orton, Hood, or Pilgrim.
Kicked off or quit? The email I got from TBK said he quit, but I am tempted to sign up as an insider to see if there is more to it.
Insider Mike is going to have a post tonight with more details.
As an aside: It is well worth the money. You'll get your money's worth after the first night. There's such a backlog of information that is simply fascinating to go back and read.
BTW: Kicked off.
Kicked off or quit? The email I got from TBK said he quit, but I am tempted to sign up as an insider to see if there is more to it.
Also, considering we are only losing Jared Carter and now Stewart and maybe Donald Williams, my guess is the scholly will go to one of GJ, Orton, Hood, or Pilgrim.
No doubt. Williams scholly was definitely for one year only.
Now we've got all 3 guys who are currently coming in a ride. Pilgrim's scholarship is already accounted for, IIRC.
However, BCG and staff never stop recruiting and it wouldn't surprise me to see more movement on this roster by next season.
Wow, looks like AJ Stewart was kicked off the team today. Make that one more scholly freed up for next season.
Any more news on this? I'm not seeing this story on the Lexington paper's website, major sports websites, or UK athletics website.
Has it actually been confirmed that Stewart is gone?
WVRed
02-27-2009, 10:43 AM
Any more news on this? I'm not seeing this story on the Lexington paper's website, major sports websites, or UK athletics website.
Has it actually been confirmed that Stewart is gone?
It's being reported on True Blue Kentucky. There are a lot of people with inside information about the program and it is being leaked there.
The team decided to let AJ come back.
I still wouldn't be at all surprised to see him transfer after the season is finished.
joshnky
02-27-2009, 08:08 PM
Insider Mike is going to have a post tonight with more details.
As an aside: It is well worth the money. You'll get your money's worth after the first night. There's such a backlog of information that is simply fascinating to go back and read.
BTW: Kicked off.
Apparently your sources were wrong. BillyG said he quit the team but then came back.
Apparently your sources were wrong. BillyG said he quit the team but then came back.
Nah, it was half dozen of one, six of the other. Sort of like when you get fired from a job but quickly say I QUIT.
The sources were absolutely correct.
dabvu2498
02-27-2009, 09:13 PM
Strange. This is the 2nd player saved by "the team." Just seems counter to the idea that Billy is such a "my way or the highway" guy.
Strange. This is the 2nd player saved by "the team." Just seems counter to the idea that Billy is such a "my way or the highway" guy.
I really have my doubts about that anymore.
joshnky
02-28-2009, 02:17 PM
I really have my doubts about that anymore.
It's more like "my way or you sit and I trash you to the media."
It's more like "my way or you sit and I trash you to the media."
What's that about those living in glass houses throwing stones?
You really have zero ability to say ANYTHING about a coach "TRASHING" a player in the media considering who you've got as a coach without looking like a humongous hypocrite.
Your trolling in this thread has gotten progressively worse.
joshnky
02-28-2009, 05:11 PM
What's that about those living in glass houses throwing stones?
You really have zero ability to say ANYTHING about a coach "TRASHING" a player in the media considering who you've got as a coach without looking like a humongous hypocrite.
Your trolling in this thread has gotten progressively worse.
:rolleyes:
WVRed
02-28-2009, 05:40 PM
What's that about those living in glass houses throwing stones?
You really have zero ability to say ANYTHING about a coach "TRASHING" a player in the media considering who you've got as a coach without looking like a humongous hypocrite.
Your trolling in this thread has gotten progressively worse.
This isn't exactly AJ's first encounter with Coach if you also remember last year when he "nodded off" in one of Gillispie's meetings. Gillispie benched him and then made him explain in the post game press conference why he had to sit the bench.
Oh, and Kentucky is getting beat 29-18 in an ABSOLUTE MUST WIN GAME.
This isn't exactly AJ's first encounter with Coach if you also remember last year when he "nodded off" in one of Gillispie's meetings. Gillispie benched him and then made him explain in the post game press conference why he had to sit the bench.
Oh, and Kentucky is getting beat 29-18 in an ABSOLUTE MUST WIN GAME.
Of course it's not. But it's so much more fun for opposing fans to trash our program and coach.
This UK team simply isn't that good. They'll be much better next year if PP and JM return, but there just aren't any other consistent scoring options right now.
WVRed
02-28-2009, 05:48 PM
Of course it's not. But it's so much more fun for opposing fans to trash our program and coach.
This UK team simply isn't that good. They'll be much better next year if PP and JM return, but there just aren't any other consistent scoring options right now.
For what its worth, I'm not jumping on the anti-Gillispie bandwagon. Anybody who is calling for his head, namely those who follow the Lexington Herald Leader, has no clue how catastrophic Gillispie leaving would put this program back.
But regardless of what happens the rest of this season, Gillispie really needs to get in gear and get a LOT of the problems straightened out for next season. I really thought this team was turning the corner but if anything there needs to be more development of a lot of these players instead of a revolving door.
For what its worth, I'm not jumping on the anti-Gillispie bandwagon. Anybody who is calling for his head, namely those who follow the Lexington Herald Leader, has no clue how catastrophic Gillispie leaving would put this program back.
But regardless of what happens the rest of this season, Gillispie really needs to get in gear and get a LOT of the problems straightened out for next season. I really thought this team was turning the corner but if anything there needs to be more development of a lot of these players instead of a revolving door.
100% agreed.
If there aren't major strides made next season then UK will need to start evaluating their coach (depending on what PP and JM do ... if they both left, expectations would need to be re-adjusted).
Just keep this in mind: We're still playing with a talent deficit at 3 of 5 positions. The talent level at UK is as low as I can ever remember it.
100% agreed.
If there aren't major strides made next season then UK will need to start evaluating their coach (depending on what PP and JM do ... if they both left, expectations would need to be re-adjusted).
Just keep this in mind: We're still playing with a talent deficit at 3 of 5 positions. The talent level at UK is as low as I can ever remember it.
Here's a chance to talk some reason into me...
Even with a talent deficit (by Kentucky's standards) this team should still beat VMI and others that have embarrassed them at Rupp Arena. They shouldn't lose by 18 to South Carolina. Everyone realizes that upsets occur and even good programs have bad nights. But ANY team that Kentucky plays has a more than reasonable chance to beat them, including programs that have junior college level talent. Even with sub-par talent, this program should not be losing the way they have because they're losing to teams with even LESS talent.
OK...you can bring me back to my senses now. :)
Let me just type this: If UK was to run off BCG before he's had 4 full years to try and resuscitate the program, it would be disastrous for UK's reputation as a place that will give a coach a halfway fair shot to revive a program on a realistic timetable with realistic expectations.
Here's a chance to talk some reason into me...
Even with a talent deficit (by Kentucky's standards) this team should still beat VMI and others that have embarrassed them at Rupp Arena. They shouldn't lose by 18 to South Carolina. Everyone realizes that upsets occur and even good programs have bad nights. But ANY team that Kentucky plays has a more than reasonable chance to beat them, including programs that have junior college level talent. Even with sub-par talent, this program should not be losing the way they have because they're losing to teams with even LESS talent.
OK...you can bring me back to my senses now. :)
The VMI game I have no answer for. Unacceptable to ever to lose to them.
As for South Carolina: I've never been so embarrassed for a group of Kentucky players. They played like girls. Honestly. I'm sure BCG was just as dismayed. Some of these players seem to accept losing way too easily.
EDIT: One thing to explain the VMI and USC loss: Teams with quick guards have abused us all season. That's exactly what those two teams have in abundance. Not to mention senior laden squads.
THIS is Kentucky basketball.
Horrible coaching at the end there by BCG. WHY WAS AJ STEWART IN THE GAME?????
WOW. JUST WOW.
WVRed
02-28-2009, 07:07 PM
THIS is Kentucky basketball.
If you mean being on the losing end of a game winning shot on your home court for the second time this season, then yes, this is the new version of Kentucky basketball.
I bet AJ Stewart wishes he would have been long gone right now.
If you mean being on the losing end of a game winning shot on your home court for the second time this season, then yes, this is the new version of Kentucky basketball.
I bet AJ Stewart wishes he would have been long gone right now.
No I was referring to the 9 minute stretch where UK built a 10 point lead.
Sea Ray
02-28-2009, 08:01 PM
Just keep this in mind: We're still playing with a talent deficit at 3 of 5 positions. The talent level at UK is as low as I can ever remember it.
Isn't that BG's fault? UK is on the bubble like UC is yet UC's situation was much more dire a few years ago that what BG inherited at UK. No way UK should be down on talent. It's a lot easier to recruit folks to play there than UC.
Isn't that BG's fault? UK is on the bubble like UC is yet UC's situation was much more dire a few years ago that what BG inherited at UK. No way UK should be down on talent. It's a lot easier to recruit folks to play there than UC.
How many years has Mick been at UC? How many classes has he recruited?
BCG has ONE recruiting class to his name. Totally unrealistic to expect him to right the ship in terms of the talent level at UK with one recruiting class.
UK will be a legit top 10 team next year if PP and JM return combined with the addition of Pilgrim, Orton, and Hood along with the maturation of the JuCos and the freshmen.
We saw today just how special of a player Darius Miller will be at UK. Just like 99% of other freshmen, however, consistency is his biggest obstacle.
(The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores.)
WVRed
02-28-2009, 08:45 PM
How many years has Mick been at UC? How many classes has he recruited?
BCG has ONE recruiting class to his name. Totally unrealistic to expect him to right the ship in terms of the talent level at UK with one recruiting class.
UK will be a legit top 10 team next year if PP and JM return combined with the addition of Pilgrim, Orton, and Hood along with the maturation of the JuCos and the freshmen.
We saw today just how special of a player Darius Miller will be at UK. Just like 99% of other freshmen, however, consistency is his biggest obstacle.
(The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores.)
Darius Miller's biggest obstacle is going to be gaining confidence. Outside of Meeks and Patterson, everybody on the team is overly timid when shooting the basketball, and Miller is no exception. He has done a good job of late, but I think he will be the one who will benefit the most during the offseason.
I don't really know what to think of next years team, to be honest. I am excited, but I don't expect to see huge impacts from Orton, Hood, Vilarino, and Pilgrim. They will be a welcome addition and will add needed depth, but Miller and Liggins will be the key to next years success, especially if Meeks and/or Patterson depart.
Guys who see Pilgrim every day say that he is easily the 2nd best post player on the team and that he will be a sure-fire 1st round NBA pick. I think he will make a huge impact next season. Orton has the ability to be an impact freshman as well.
Sea Ray
02-28-2009, 08:55 PM
How many years has Mick been at UC? How many classes has he recruited?
BCG has ONE recruiting class to his name. Totally unrealistic to expect him to right the ship in terms of the talent level at UK with one recruiting class.
UK will be a legit top 10 team next year if PP and JM return combined with the addition of Pilgrim, Orton, and Hood along with the maturation of the JuCos and the freshmen.
We saw today just how special of a player Darius Miller will be at UK. Just like 99% of other freshmen, however, consistency is his biggest obstacle.
(The best thing about freshmen is that they become sophomores.)
Mick's been at UC one more year than BG has been at UK. Mick inherited a much worse situation than BG but my point is not to start a thread comparing the two.
I agree UK cannot jump ship on BG right now. You'd just better hope he's the coach he's cracked up to be...
Mick's been at UC one more year than BG has been at UK. Mick inherited a much worse situation than BG but my point is not to start a thread comparing the two.
I agree UK cannot jump ship on BG right now. You'd just better hope he's the coach he's cracked up to be...
You're preaching to the choir on that one. Sort of like that new football coach down in kville. ;)
I still have faith, but ... ... well, let's just say this has been a tough season to be a UK fan. You don't win Coach of the Year four different times if you don't know a thing or two. Passing final judgment on him as a coach based on this season would be the height of stupidity.
Sea Ray
02-28-2009, 09:19 PM
You're preaching to the choir on that one. Sort of like that new football coach down in kville. ;)
I still have faith, but ... ... well, let's just say this has been a tough season to be a UK fan. You don't win Coach of the Year four different times if you don't know a thing or two. Passing final judgment on him as a coach based on this season would be the height of stupidity.
It's got nothing to do with football at another school. I don't follow basketball recruiting as closely as some but he can't be losing star recruits to schools like UT with any regularity.
It's got nothing to do with football at another school. I don't follow basketball recruiting as closely as some but he can't be losing star recruits to schools like UT with any regularity.
No dude, you misunderstood my point. I was just speaking to the pressure of BCG and Lane Kiffin at their respective schools. The basketball coach at UK and the football coach at UT are similar in that they don't have much margin for error. That was my only point.
Boston Red
02-28-2009, 09:47 PM
So what does UK have to do to make the NCAA Tournament? I think if they go 2-0, they're in. If they lose at Florida, they probably need to win twice in the SEC Tournament. That RPI is ugly.
So what does UK have to do to make the NCAA Tournament? I think if they go 2-0, they're in. If they lose at Florida, they probably need to win twice in the SEC Tournament. That RPI is ugly.
I think you're exactly right.
So what does UK have to do to make the NCAA Tournament? I think if they go 2-0, they're in. If they lose at Florida, they probably need to win twice in the SEC Tournament. That RPI is ugly.
As WMR said, I think you are right also which makes it a very good chance they wont get in.
Sea Ray
02-28-2009, 11:00 PM
No dude, you misunderstood my point. I was just speaking to the pressure of BCG and Lane Kiffin at their respective schools. The basketball coach at UK and the football coach at UT are similar in that they don't have much margin for error. That was my only point.
I understood your point just fine. But if Phil Fulmer was still the coach in Knoxville, BG's problem would still be the same. There's lots of coaches who have a pressure to win.
WVRed
02-28-2009, 11:06 PM
I understood your point just fine. But if Phil Fulmer was still the coach in Knoxville, BG's problem would still be the same. There's lots of coaches who have a pressure to win.
Not a lot of coaches have a wacko fanbase like Kentucky has in basketball and Tennessee has in football.
If you want an idea of how bad it is, my dad went onto the Lexington Herald Leader for John Clay's live blog on either Wednesday or Thursday night. He commented that almost every question was constant complaints about Gillispie, how he hasn't signed a contract yet or how he handled Jeanine Edwards. He tried to ask another question completely offtopic from Gillispie and it never got posted.
Not a lot of coaches have a wacko fanbase like Kentucky has in basketball and Tennessee has in football.
If you want an idea of how bad it is, my dad went onto the Lexington Herald Leader for John Clay's live blog on either Wednesday or Thursday night. He commented that almost every question was constant complaints about Gillispie, how he hasn't signed a contract yet or how he handled Jeanine Edwards. He tried to ask another question completely offtopic from Gillispie and it never got posted.
:laugh:
WVRed
02-28-2009, 11:36 PM
:laugh:
To be honest, I do think the fanbase and Lexington media is really what makes it hard for Gillispie to manage this team.
Gillispie has overseen turnarounds at both Texas A&M and UTEP in his second year, both schools with small recruiting budgets and nowhere near the expectations. He has done it through his "boot camp" and through being tough on his players.
Gillispie is now in his second year at Kentucky, and the difference I see isn't so much in the coach, but in the attitudes of the players. The players know that the media and fans are going to go after the coach if he does anything and that they are free from most scrutiny.
If you were a player at Kentucky and you knew you had a fanbase who would jump at the chance to criticize the coach based on the past history of the program and know that you would escape criticism, would you give full effort? Gillispie can say what he wants to the players, but it is likely going to go in one ear and out the other.
I still think Gillispie is the right coach for Kentucky longterm, but he is still a young coach and is going to have to grow into the role. My biggest fear is that he doesn't grow and he ends up as another Mike Davis, Steve Lavin, or Matt Doherty.
Right now, my opinion of Gillispie is Eddie Sutton minus the embarrassments.
What percentage of his years as a head coach did Eddie Sutton win COTY?
dabvu2498
03-01-2009, 12:17 AM
What percentage of his years as a head coach did Eddie Sutton win COTY? How many games have BG's coty awards won him in 08-09?
dabvu2498
03-01-2009, 12:24 AM
Wvred... You don't think Porter or Harris or Liggins or Stevenson have received any heat from fans or the media? Here is a reason things from a coach might go in one ear and out the other -- 2 players have fairly publicly disrespected the coach and the program without real consequence.
joshnky
03-01-2009, 09:43 AM
I still have faith, but ... ... well, let's just say this has been a tough season to be a UK fan. You don't win Coach of the Year four different times if you don't know a thing or two. Passing final judgment on him as a coach based on this season would be the height of stupidity.
I feel obligated to point out that Tubby won five coach of the year awards and he couldn't cut it at UK. Now I'm done trolling. ;)
Hoosier Red
03-01-2009, 09:58 AM
100% agreed.
If there aren't major strides made next season then UK will need to start evaluating their coach (depending on what PP and JM do ... if they both left, expectations would need to be re-adjusted).
Just keep this in mind: We're still playing with a talent deficit at 3 of 5 positions. The talent level at UK is as low as I can ever remember it.
At what point does that excuse stop working? I mean, Gillespie either has 2 recruiting classes,(or does Patterson not count as a class but rather an and one on to this years.)
Here's my concern if I'm UK, this should have been the perfect year for a non-standard issue, but very well coached, UK team to at least contend for an SEC title. The league is probably as low as it has been for 5-10 years. You don't need to be hyper talented to win, because nobody is.
Teams like UC and Minnesota started out in much worse conditions and are competing for an NCAA spot in tougher conferences.
But you're right, you can't get rid of Gillespie. But is it now time to start worrying about whether the next two years are going to be true growth, or a slow maddening plateau leading to his firing?
WVRed
03-01-2009, 02:00 PM
What percentage of his years as a head coach did Eddie Sutton win COTY?
AP National Coach of the Year (1978, 1986)
SWC Coach of the Year (1975, 1977, 1979, 1981)
SEC Coach of the Year (1986)
Big Eight Coach of the Year (1993)
Big 12 Coach of the Year (1998, 2004)
And Gillispie's:
Big 12 Coach of the Year (2005, 2007)
SEC co-Coach of the Year (2008)
Gotta love Wikipedia.:)
WVRed
03-01-2009, 02:11 PM
Wvred... You don't think Porter or Harris or Liggins or Stevenson have received any heat from fans or the media? Here is a reason things from a coach might go in one ear and out the other -- 2 players have fairly publicly disrespected the coach and the program without real consequence.
Not as much as the coach, and it wouldn't matter who the coach was. If Kentucky fans would have gotten their wish and the other "Billy" was coaching here, this debate still would be going on.
Players do get criticism, but my point is this. If Gillispie was at College Station right now, he would be able to run the program however he saw fit without much criticism from fans. At Lexington, or for that matter all across the commonwealth, the coach is held to a higher standard. Whether that is right or wrong is debatable, but the expectations are only as good as the players Gillispie has to work with.
Two incidents that come to mind for me:
1. The Dusty Mills episode, in which Gillispie berated Mills before finally dismissing him.
2. AJ Stewart "nodding off" in the team meeting.
Compare that to how Gillispie handled Liggins and Stewart this season and tell me if he is afraid to discipline because of fear or backlash. At some point though he is going to have to do something that is not going to be popular.
dabvu2498
03-01-2009, 02:36 PM
There is another aspect of the Kentucky situation that is not exclusive to Kentucky but does not happen everywhere -- the number of "insiders," who are willing to post on websites, the details of every team meeting, practice, postgame locker room argument, etc., etc. If Coach wanted to keep some of these situations under wraps, then keeping these "insiders" quiet would be a good place to start.
WVRed
03-01-2009, 02:43 PM
There is another aspect of the Kentucky situation that is not exclusive to Kentucky but does not happen everywhere -- the number of "insiders," who are willing to post on websites, the details of every team meeting, practice, postgame locker room argument, etc., etc. If Coach wanted to keep some of these situations under wraps, then keeping these "insiders" quiet would be a good place to start.
www.truebluekentucky.com
improbus
03-01-2009, 02:54 PM
Just looked at Wikipedia. Does it seem like Rick has been at Louisville as long as he was at UK? Wow. Also, as much as I despise the 'Ville, I've gotta say that I love the all white uni's they are wearing. They are much better than the travesty that they usually wear.
dabvu2498
03-01-2009, 02:56 PM
www.truebluekentucky.com Exactly. I will never go near the "insider" section of that place. For the record, I think wanting BG gone at this point is foolish at best and potentially disasterous at worst. He should be judged when the roster is fully his. However, I think there is some legitimate justification for concern at this point. Substitution/rotation patterns, media interactions, handling the locker room, lack of progress to this point in the season being some examples. I hope he gets the program back where we want it. But I an not 100 percent sold. Not that i ever was.
WVRed
03-01-2009, 09:23 PM
Going to try to break these down the best that I can.
media interactions
This actually doesn't concern me in the least. I think most Kentucky fans have been spoiled by Rick Pitino and his ability to charm the media. Some coaches aren't exactly camera friendly and every interview I have seen with Gillispie, even going back to A&M, is the same. I don't care how he does on camera, as long as he wins games.
Substitution/rotation patterns
This is a problem, but moreso in starting Ramon Harris and Michael Porter. Harris has done nothing to deserve a starting job, and while Porter can have good moments, he sat the entire second half while Kevin Galloway did a much better job.
handling the locker room
This is where I think Gillispie has changed this season, and for the worst. This is where the fear of the fan base has made Gillispie soften his approach and the players are now not afraid of him. He is going to need to do something quick to fix it, and kicking AJ Stewart off the team for good may be the best way to do it.
lack of progress to this point in the season
I was expecting more at this point. I was concerned early in the season with the VMI loss, but I figured that Kentucky could establish themselves after the Louisville game as the team to beat in the SEC. After the game in Oxford, this is an entirely different team.
Exactly. I will never go near the "insider" section of that place.
Why go there yourself when you can just ask me to tell you what's being said over there? :laugh:
"Two years is a pretty short time frame for anybody to start gauging whether we are capable of getting to a Final Four under a coaching staff," the Kentucky athletics director said. "Billy is working extremely hard to try to put Kentucky basketball back where the fans want it to be. I know nobody wants to hear it, but it's going to take time to get our roster filled out like we need it to be."
Barnhart was speaking in the bowels of Rupp Arena on Saturday shortly after UK lost a fiercely contested 73-70 hoops slugfest with LSU.
At least the AD gets it even if a bunch of fans seemingly do not.
dabvu2498
03-01-2009, 11:01 PM
Why go there yourself when you can just ask me to tell you what's being said over there? :laugh: I asked you, in particular, about the Stewart situation because I assumed the particulars would come out in the regular media. I would think that would happen when a kid gets kicked off/quits a team. However, when a situation gets handled like this one did, I would expect the goodies to stay in house. They didn't. And in retrospect I'd imagine all parties wish they would have.
dabvu2498
03-01-2009, 11:06 PM
At least the AD gets it even if a bunch of fans seemingly do not. 2 best places to coach; orphanages and prisons. No parents. No alumni.
dabvu2498
03-01-2009, 11:16 PM
My issue with his media relations faults is this... He is the face of the program, and in some ways, the university and the state. So when he comes off as rude or surly or arrogant or whatever... Well... That ain't good. He doesn't have to be Pitino or Crean or Calipari in this regard. Calhoun and Boeheim have been media awkward for years. But a moderate amount of tact would go a long way. Of course if they had made the sweet 16 last year or were headed there this year nobody would care how surly he is.
2 best places to coach; orphanages and prisons. No parents. No alumni.
:lol:
That's a good one! Never read that one before. haha.
My issue with his media relations faults is this... He is the face of the program, and in some ways, the university and the state. So when he comes off as rude or surly or arrogant or whatever... Well... That ain't good. He doesn't have to be Pitino or Crean or Calipari in this regard. Calhoun and Boeheim have been media awkward for years. But a moderate amount of tact would go a long way. Of course if they had made the sweet 16 last year or were headed there this year nobody would care how surly he is.
I agree with your entire post, but especially the last part.
All this other noise will go away if he starts winning. If he doesn't, it will get louder and louder.
As to the Stewart and Liggins deals: I actually like that he put the decision to the team as a whole rather than making a draconian type of decision. I personally feel that that shows some growth on BCG's part, not weakness. I don't think certain players not playing hard is because they don't fear or respect Coach... I think it's just because they're pansies (Yes, Perry Stevenson, I'm looking at you).
It's almost like some of these guys don't know they're at KENTUCKY. They are going to get EVERY team's BEST SHOT. These other teams seem to remember the historic beatings that UK gave most of them, but some players on this roster simply don't get it, and I don't think it's from a lack of trying to beat things into their head and motivate them from BCG and his staff.
On another note: Look for the Galloway - Meeks - Harris - Miller - Patterson lineup to get significant play the rest of the season. Coach gave his traditional starting five the first half saturday to get things done and they, obviously, failed miserably.
dabvu2498
03-01-2009, 11:54 PM
On another note: Look for the Galloway - Meeks - Harris - Miller - Patterson lineup to get significant play the rest of the season. Coach gave his traditional starting five the first half saturday to get things done and they, obviously, failed miserably. Why would you expect any lineup that makes sense to get much run? ;)
2 best places to coach; orphanages and prisons. No parents. No alumni.
That is brilliant. I love that line.
Javy Pornstache
03-02-2009, 08:00 PM
On another note: Look for the Galloway - Meeks - Harris - Miller - Patterson lineup to get significant play the rest of the season. Coach gave his traditional starting five the first half saturday to get things done and they, obviously, failed miserably.
Don't count on it, WMR. I've thought this a million times already based on similar patterns in other games, and every time the next game tips off, Harris, Porter and Stevenson all are in that lineup together, digging us another early hole. I'll almost guarantee he doesn't change the lineup.
EDIT: I misread your post initially as saying your proposed lineup would be the actual starting lineup, which you didn't say. Still - I hope you're right that that is the lineup for the chunk of minutes... cause their tournament hopes are hanging by a thread right now.
WVRed
03-02-2009, 10:54 PM
Should be interesting to note that Mike Casey, a former UK great, was interviewed earlier this week and these were his comments in regard to Billy Gillispie:
ASOB -- Coach Gillipsie has now coached 60 games at UK. What type of job do you think he's doing so far?
Casey -- "First of all, I think he's in over his head. I think he has no clue as to what's going on in the game."
"I just don't think he knows what it means to coach at UK. I hate to say it, but a change has to be made, and soon, or we're going to lose what UK is all about. Ask (Richie) Farmer, or (John) Pelphrey, or (Deron) Feldhaus what it means to play at Kentucky. Ask them what that "Kentucky" across their chests means. Somehow we've let that go. If we lost we came out fightin' mad; we weren't going to lose two in a row. It's beyond me why (Mitch) Barnhart and (Lee) Todd put up with it."
ASOB -- With the way the season is turning out, can you tell us what type of pressure the players are under?
Casey -- "They're under tremendous pressure because of the prestige ... getting embarrassed on national TV. This (the South Carolina game) isn't the first time."
I really don't know what to make of it. A lot of his comments are spot on, but I want to see Gillispie make everything right.
joshnky
03-02-2009, 11:09 PM
I know this season is mostly lost but Gillispie can help himself out a lot by beating Florida and making the tourney. The first non-tourney year since probation will not go over well with UK fans.
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 12:19 AM
Should be interesting to note that Mike Casey, a former UK great, was interviewed earlier this week and these were his comments in regard to Billy Gillispie: I really don't know what to make of it. A lot of his comments are spot on, but I want to see Gillispie make everything right. Wow. That is harsh. And a bit foolish. Got a link? I assume there is more and I'd like to read it.
macro
03-03-2009, 12:39 AM
Wow. That is harsh. And a bit foolish. Got a link? I assume there is more and I'd like to read it.
Here it is, although that's all he had to say about Gillispie...
http://www.aseaofblue.com/2009/3/2/777159/q-a-with-former-wildcat-gr
Should be interesting to note that Mike Casey, a former UK great, was interviewed earlier this week and these were his comments in regard to Billy Gillispie:
I really don't know what to make of it. A lot of his comments are spot on, but I want to see Gillispie make everything right.
Which of those comments are spot on? :rolleyes:
A big bunch of foolishness by a man who just made himself look like a fool is what I read.
I guess he missed the last 3-4 seasons of Tubby. Those teams NEVER lost 2 games in a row. :rolleyes:
Didn't Tubby's teams go two straight seasons without beating a team ranked in the top 25?
cumberlandreds
03-03-2009, 09:03 AM
Should be interesting to note that Mike Casey, a former UK great, was interviewed earlier this week and these were his comments in regard to Billy Gillispie:
I really don't know what to make of it. A lot of his comments are spot on, but I want to see Gillispie make everything right.
I hope Casey is terrribly wrong but I'm afraid in the end he's going to be more correct than wrong. UK can't fire BG now nor should they. It would be a program killer for sure if they did now outside of BG breaking NCAA rules or public law. But the more I see of him the more I'm believeing he's in over his head at UK. It takes a special type of personality from a coach to handle the enormity of the program. I'm not sure he has that. I thought he had what it took when he was hired. He may still but my doubts are there. Next season will be huge. No matter if Meeks or Patterson returns,the expectations will be lower if they don't, but significant improvement will have to be met or things will get very,very ugly next season.
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 09:21 AM
I guess he missed the last 3-4 seasons of Tubby. Those teams NEVER lost 2 games in a row. :rolleyes: Didn't Tubby's teams go two straight seasons without beating a team ranked in the top 25? And Tubby pretty well got run out of town on a rail didn't he?
With Tubby, fans saw a steady decline in the program. There were problems with players and a trend lackluster recruiting. And before you know it, one of the most prestigious programs in the country can't beat a ranked team and struggles to make the NCAA tournament. I'm not a Tubby basher (I think he's a good man), but the results simply weren't there. It wasn't personal; it's just that the program was declining.
Enter Billy Gillispie. UK didn't bring him in just to be different, but to improve the program. Fans saw a coach that made things happen and who was a fierce recruiter. However, the program really hasn't improved. There was a good run last year that made us think he'd hit his stride, then the 2008-09 season comes and the same old inconsistent play continues.
I understand that removing Gillispie so soon could possibly hurt the program. But we have to face the fact that it's possible that keeping him could do more harm...we simply don't know. He didn't inherit a program that's ready to be ranked every week. However, he didn't inherit a probation-hindered program, either. Personally, I say give him one more year. If there's no improvement after 3 years, it's time to move on and find a better fit. No more annual upsets in Rupp to minor programs meant to serve as warm-up to conference play. This program should be better than that.
:laugh:
Some of you people in this thread are really ridiculous. You DO know the recruits that he has coming in over the next 4 seasons, correct? You further understand that getting rid of BCG would mean that likely all of those recruits would go somewhere else?
D. Orton
J. Hood
D. Ferguson
Ross-Miller
Zollo
Euton
Vilarino
Pilgrim
"The program really hasn't improved" - That's totally incorrect and a very ignorant statement. Too bad Billy can't pinch his nose and make bad/inconsistent players into good/consistent players. No one here seems to have any idea how recruiting works. You've got to be in on a kid YEARS before he makes his college choice. The fact that BCG has brought in who he has in such a relatively short period of time is miraculous.
DTCromer
03-03-2009, 10:19 AM
I've seen Lunardi's latest projections. He still thinks UK is a tournament team?
Do UK fans even believe this?
I've seen Lunardi's latest projections. He still thinks UK is a tournament team?
Do UK fans even believe this?
Of course. If the season ended today they'd be in.
It doesn't, however.
If they beat GA and FLA they're definitely in.
A loss to FLA and they'd need two wins in the SEC tournament before I'd feel totally comfortable although one would likely do it.
An RPI of 66 and they are definitely in? I don't know about that WMR. I do agree that beating GA and Florida gets them in.
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 10:25 AM
I tend to agree, wmr, but you have to be able to see why people would have some concerns don't you? By the way, Pilgrim couldn't transfer again without giving up a year of playing time. You have 5 years to play 4. This was his "sit out" year. Unless he went NAIA.
DTCromer
03-03-2009, 10:41 AM
Of course. If the season ended today they'd be in.
It doesn't, however.
If they beat GA and FLA they're definitely in.
A loss to FLA and they'd need two wins in the SEC tournament before I'd feel totally comfortable although one would likely do it.
I'm looking at their resume and I don't see it. Their best win is on a neutral court vs WVU and they (UK) play in the 6th best conference in the country. 8-6 in the 6th best conference?
Shall I count the 4 losses vs sub-75 RPI teams?
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 10:47 AM
And 1 win vs. a top 100 team on the road. I know Lunardi keeps writing them in, but I don't see it. Besides, I don't think a 10 seed and an early exit is what any of us had in mind.
DTCromer
03-03-2009, 10:59 AM
And 1 win vs. a top 100 team on the road. I know Lunardi keeps writing them in, but I don't see it. Besides, I don't think a 10 seed and an early exit is what any of us had in mind.
I don't see how Lunardi has them in either which is why I was asking. He had them as a 7 a week or two ago.
And then I see Penn State is one of the last 4 teams in when they've played no one OOC, their best win OOC is Penn??? Maybe??? WIth a loss to Rhode Island.
COmpare them to Minnesota who was undefeated OOC with a little bit of tougher OOC schedule, including a win vs Louisville and they're 1 game behind PSU in-conference. It doesn't make any sense.
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 11:04 AM
I don't see how Lunardi has them in either which is why I was asking. He had them as a 7 a week or two ago. And then I see Penn State is one of the last 4 teams in when they've played no one OOC, their best win OOC is Penn??? Maybe??? WIth a loss to Rhode Island. COmpare them to Minnesota who was undefeated OOC with a little bit of tougher OOC schedule, including a win vs Louisville and they're 1 game behind PSU in-conference. It doesn't make any sense. That is the nature of the beast this year. There really are not 34 deserving at large teams, in my opinion.
joshnky
03-03-2009, 11:15 AM
There really are not 34 deserving at large teams, in my opinion.
Ding, ding, ding. This is the key. It's a down year in college basketball. Which makes me feel good about Louisville's chances in the tourney. They have a very good but not great team. However, there really aren't any great teams this year so Louisville has an excellent chance of making a run. Last year was different with the four at the top that were head and shoulders above the rest.
WVRed
03-03-2009, 11:17 AM
Which of those comments are spot on? :rolleyes:
A big bunch of foolishness by a man who just made himself look like a fool is what I read.
I take it you don't know who Mike Casey is, but anytime a former Kentucky great who played under Rupp speaks, I am more likely to listen. Even Marc was more respectful in his response, which surprised me considering I was looking to see him blast the guy.
Do I agree with all of it? No. I do agree Gillispie is in over his head right now, but the difference between me and Mike Casey is that I believe Gillispie is a young coach and hopefully can straighten it out in time. The guy has turned basketball programs around at schools where the fans likely never paid any attention until they made the NCAA tournament or were ranked for the first time. He doesn't have that luxury at Kentucky.
I did agree with another thing, judging by the way these teams have been playing, I don't think they fully understand what it means to play at Kentucky and the fact that every team in the SEC is going to be coming after them game in and game out, regardless of ranking. And that ultimately starts at the coach on down.
Going through the Rich Brooks ordeal has taught me to be patient with coaches. That being said, I would much rather give Gillispie time to straighten everything out than see this type of performance from a Billy Donovan or Rick Barnes.
WVRed
03-03-2009, 11:21 AM
With Tubby, fans saw a steady decline in the program. There were problems with players and a trend lackluster recruiting. And before you know it, one of the most prestigious programs in the country can't beat a ranked team and struggles to make the NCAA tournament. I'm not a Tubby basher (I think he's a good man), but the results simply weren't there. It wasn't personal; it's just that the program was declining.
Enter Billy Gillispie. UK didn't bring him in just to be different, but to improve the program. Fans saw a coach that made things happen and who was a fierce recruiter. However, the program really hasn't improved. There was a good run last year that made us think he'd hit his stride, then the 2008-09 season comes and the same old inconsistent play continues.
I understand that removing Gillispie so soon could possibly hurt the program. But we have to face the fact that it's possible that keeping him could do more harm...we simply don't know. He didn't inherit a program that's ready to be ranked every week. However, he didn't inherit a probation-hindered program, either. Personally, I say give him one more year. If there's no improvement after 3 years, it's time to move on and find a better fit. No more annual upsets in Rupp to minor programs meant to serve as warm-up to conference play. This program should be better than that.
http://www.the-dreamingtree.com/al_davis.jpg/al_davis-full;init:.jpg
If Kentucky fired Gillispie even after three seasons, barring a catastrophic meltdown, something that puts the program on probation, or another Act of God, Kentucky would become the Oakland Raiders of college sports. No high profile coach in their right mind would want to come to Kentucky, regardless of how much money you threw at them.
WVRed
03-03-2009, 11:26 AM
:laugh:
Some of you people in this thread are really ridiculous. You DO know the recruits that he has coming in over the next 4 seasons, correct? You further understand that getting rid of BCG would mean that likely all of those recruits would go somewhere else?
D. Orton
J. Hood
D. Ferguson
Ross-Miller
Zollo
Euton
Vilarino
Pilgrim
"The program really hasn't improved" - That's totally incorrect and a very ignorant statement. Too bad Billy can't pinch his nose and make bad/inconsistent players into good/consistent players. No one here seems to have any idea how recruiting works. You've got to be in on a kid YEARS before he makes his college choice. The fact that BCG has brought in who he has in such a relatively short period of time is miraculous.
The problem with recruiting kids far into the future is akin to playing the lottery. You are hoping the kids pan out before they ever set foot on a college campus, and even then, depending on how much they do improve, they could field calls and look elsewhere.
The other problem is that a lot of people are expecting big impacts from our freshman class next year. Pilgrim (although he is not a frosh) and Orton could contribute, but GJ and Hood will likely be as contributive as Darius Miller and DeAndre Liggins, if not less. Patterson is usually the exception, not the norm in making an impact out of the gate.
Boston Red
03-03-2009, 11:34 AM
WIth a loss to Rhode Island.
URI has 20+ wins and is a Bubble team themselves. I don't think it's much of a knock on Penn State that they lost to Rhody....unless the last spot comes down to them or Rhody.
http://www.the-dreamingtree.com/al_davis.jpg/al_davis-full;init:.jpg
If Kentucky fired Gillispie even after three seasons, barring a catastrophic meltdown, something that puts the program on probation, or another Act of God, Kentucky would become the Oakland Raiders of college sports. No high profile coach in their right mind would want to come to Kentucky, regardless of how much money you threw at them.
Al Davis and his actions as owner of the Raiders is not a good comparison, IMO. The Raiders are not to the NFL what UK is to college basketball. The Raiders are a 82 Firebird compared to Kentucky's 2005 Viper. While Davis thinks he's the one with the newer Viper, I believe a lot of KY fans believe Gillispie is the one who inherited the old sports car. (no offense to Firebird fans here...:))
My contention is that the UK program was not in shambles when Gillispie was brought aboard. This is not a rebuilding project. It wasn't a top-notch program, to be sure, but it did have some talent and a huge tradition that should put it on the radar to the top prospects in the nation.
What concerns me is the inconsistent play and getting beat in Rupp for two years straight by teams that should be, let's be honest, nothing but fodder for UK as it prepares for conference play. Perhaps losing to South Carolina hit me too hard. Gillisipie's in his second year with subpar talent, people say. But South Carolina has a FIRST year coach with even less talent and he managed to totally humilate the Cats.
Perhaps you're right and I should be looking at the positives: beating UT twice this year, beating Vandy, making the tournament last year. I may calm down in the offseason. The thing is, come next year, I believe we ALL should expect to see better results from this program; we should have seen more this year.
I really hope Billy G gets this program on the right track. I'd be thrilled for him to be a huge success at UK. We just need to see some improvement. If this team continues to wallow in relative mediocrity, struggling to make the NCAA tournament for another few years, top recruits will look elsewhere.
WVRed
03-03-2009, 12:35 PM
Al Davis and his actions as owner of the Raiders is not a good comparison, IMO. The Raiders are not to the NFL what UK is to college basketball. The Raiders are a 82 Firebird compared to Kentucky's 2005 Viper. While Davis thinks he's the one with the newer Viper, I believe a lot of KY fans believe Gillispie is the one who inherited the old sports car. (no offense to Firebird fans here...:))
My contention is that the UK program was not in shambles when Gillispie was brought aboard. This is not a rebuilding project. It wasn't a top-notch program, to be sure, but it did have some talent and a huge tradition that should put it on the radar to the top prospects in the nation.
What concerns me is the inconsistent play and getting beat in Rupp for two years straight by teams that should be, let's be honest, nothing but fodder for UK as it prepares for conference play. Perhaps losing to South Carolina hit me too hard. Gillisipie's in his second year with subpar talent, people say. But South Carolina has a FIRST year coach with even less talent and he managed to totally humilate the Cats.
Perhaps you're right and I should be looking at the positives: beating UT twice this year, beating Vandy, making the tournament last year. I may calm down in the offseason. The thing is, come next year, I believe we ALL should expect to see better results from this program; we should have seen more this year.
I really hope Billy G gets this program on the right track. I'd be thrilled for him to be a huge success at UK. We just need to see some improvement. If this team continues to wallow in relative mediocrity, struggling to make the NCAA tournament for another few years, top recruits will look elsewhere.
I would disagree with the team being in shambles part. In terms of developed talent and experience, last years team might as well have been a probation-era team. The team Tubby won a national championship with had more leadership than what Gillispie inherited this year.
South Carolina isn't as bad a team as you might think as well.
If Kentucky let Gillispie go after next year, who do you think in their right mind would come coach here?
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 01:03 PM
I would disagree with the team being in shambles part. In terms of developed talent and experience, last years team might as well have been a probation-era team. The team Tubby won a national championship with had more leadership than what Gillispie inherited this year. South Carolina isn't as bad a team as you might think as well. If Kentucky let Gillispie go after next year, who do you think in their right mind would come coach here? Plenty of coaches would take the Kentucky gig yesterday. I agree that he should be given enough time to make the roster his but I don't think running him off would completely ruin the program either.
DTCromer
03-03-2009, 01:07 PM
URI has 20+ wins and is a Bubble team themselves. I don't think it's much of a knock on Penn State that they lost to Rhody....unless the last spot comes down to them or Rhody.
It's a knock when that's your "best" and only quality OOC game played and you lost.
Plenty of coaches would take the Kentucky gig yesterday. I agree that he should be given enough time to make the roster his but I don't think running him off would completely ruin the program either.
I agree. Kentucky will always be an appealing job for most coaches. I do think they should give Billy another year at least, probably two.
Javy Pornstache
03-03-2009, 01:34 PM
I just wonder why Mike Casey and Kenny Walker and some of these guys so quick on the trigger with Gillispie were silent when Tubby was running back-to-back 9-7 records in the SEC. Everyone is in easy agreement now that it is a monumental rebuild that Kentucky is under, that the talent level was at an alarming low when Tubby left. Of course, this was rarely said in the media until he was actually out of town, and now everyone's brave enough to say. I like Billy, and I think he's the perfect fit for Kentucky; he has the passion necessary to lead this frustratingly hard-to-please fanbase. It would be ridiculously shortsighted and give in to all the stereotypes about the UK quick-triggered fanbase to let him go after two years, especially with the great recruits he's already got lined up that WMR listed. Heaven forbid you lose three of your best four players from last year, and have no seniors to speak of (other than "Air Carter") and one positively contributing junior and have THIS as a result.
I've been one of his biggest supporters, but the main thing that gets me is his lack of in-game adjustments. The program was in bad shape when he took over, and still is, no doubt; however, that said, they probably should not have lost half the games they have lost, current roster and all.
WVRed
03-03-2009, 01:48 PM
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/apmegasports/200902211258467056217-pf.rp420x400.jpg
One thing about Gillispie compared to Tubby, he does provide a lot more funny captions.
Hoosier Red
03-03-2009, 02:02 PM
I just wonder why Mike Casey and Kenny Walker and some of these guys so quick on the trigger with Gillispie were silent when Tubby was running back-to-back 9-7 records in the SEC. Everyone is in easy agreement now that it is a monumental rebuild that Kentucky is under, that the talent level was at an alarming low when Tubby left. Of course, this was rarely said in the media until he was actually out of town, and now everyone's brave enough to say. I like Billy, and I think he's the perfect fit for Kentucky; he has the passion necessary to lead this frustratingly hard-to-please fanbase. It would be ridiculously shortsighted and give in to all the stereotypes about the UK quick-triggered fanbase to let him go after two years, especially with the great recruits he's already got lined up that WMR listed. Heaven forbid you lose three of your best four players from last year, and have no seniors to speak of (other than "Air Carter") and one positively contributing junior and have THIS as a result.
I've been one of his biggest supporters, but the main thing that gets me is his lack of in-game adjustments. The program was in bad shape when he took over, and still is, no doubt; however, that said, they probably should not have lost half the games they have lost, current roster and all.
Wasn't Meeks a Tubby holdover. He's easily the best player. I think there are two conflicting excuses for Gillespie to a degree.
1) There's no talent left over but Gillespie does better with less talent than anyone else could.
2) Wait until he gets "his recruits" well he's had 1 1/2 classses, and there has to be some concern over how much better his recruits are getting as they progress. Or else you'll have to wait until the current class is Juniors? Seniors?
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 02:33 PM
Meeks was a Tubby holdover. But I would say Patterson is actually more valuable than Meeks, all things considered. Anyway... 6 of the 12 active scholarship guys are BG recruits.
Javy Pornstache
03-03-2009, 02:39 PM
Wasn't Meeks a Tubby holdover. He's easily the best player. I think there are two conflicting excuses for Gillespie to a degree.
1) There's no talent left over but Gillespie does better with less talent than anyone else could.
2) Wait until he gets "his recruits" well he's had 1 1/2 classses, and there has to be some concern over how much better his recruits are getting as they progress. Or else you'll have to wait until the current class is Juniors? Seniors?
Yes, Meeks being the one contributing junior I cited in my post. Nobody has said that Meeks sucks. But I do think Patterson is the more complete player. As awesome a shooter and scorer Jodie is, he does have some obvious defensive decificiencies and turnover problems. That said, we'd be far worse off without him, no doubt. I'm not making excuses, I'm stating what's actually wrong with the program through my eyes, and the eyes of many who agree, and casting blame on Gillispie for what I believe IS his fault.
Meeks was a Tubby holdover. But I would say Patterson is actually more valuable than Meeks, all things considered. Anyway... 6 of the 12 active scholarship guys are BG recruits.
Half the roster? I wouldn't have guessed that. Does that include Patterson?
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 02:47 PM
Question: would UK be better off this season if Miller, Liggins, and Harrelson had logged more minutes than Harris, Stevenson, and Porter? Would that have led directly to more w's?
Hoosier Red
03-03-2009, 02:47 PM
Meeks was a Tubby holdover. But I would say Patterson is actually more valuable than Meeks, all things considered. Anyway... 6 of the 12 active scholarship guys are BG recruits.
And that's what would have me concerned about BCG.
At his previous stops he seemed to excel at getting his kind of guys in, and then having 2 to 3 years to really coach them up.
I think the type of guys that are his guys though are either a) not really good enough to play for a dominant team, or b) good enough to leave after two years(Patterson) and its hard to build a program that way.
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 02:56 PM
Half the roster? I wouldn't have guessed that. Does that include Patterson? Yes. Patterson, Galloway, Harrelson, Miller, Liggins, and Donald Williams. Not counting Stewart, who was recruited by Tubby.
Yes. Patterson, Galloway, Harrelson, Miller, Liggins, and Donald Williams. Not counting Stewart, who was recruited by Tubby.
Thanks. By the way, why is Harrellson basically just riding the pine lately?
Blimpie
03-03-2009, 08:05 PM
Thanks. By the way, why is Harrellson basically just riding the pine lately?Apparently, it is just his turn.
Thanks. By the way, why is Harrellson basically just riding the pine lately?
- Not boxing out
- Not playing hard
- Not playing defense
- Practicing hard intermittently
dabvu2498
03-03-2009, 11:05 PM
- Not boxing out - Not playing hard - Not playing defense - Practicing hard intermittently He couldn't guard a pack of wolves against a herd of sheep.
He couldn't guard a pack of wolves against a herd of sheep.
Now THAT'S funny...
He couldn't guard a pack of wolves against a herd of sheep.
That would explain it. Was he a poor defender in HS or last year? Was this something Billy knew he would have to correct?
dabvu2498
03-04-2009, 11:20 AM
That would explain it. Was he a poor defender in HS or last year? Was this something Billy knew he would have to correct? He is a juco soph. If you're going to juco games to recruit defense you're in the wrong place. He is what he is... A guy that does one or two things well with big time holes in his game.
He is a juco soph. If you're going to juco games to recruit defense you're in the wrong place. He is what he is... A guy that does one or two things well with big time holes in his game.
I just remember most of the UK fanbase being very excited about him when he committed. I was just curious what his story is since he rarely plays. I'm sure he'll get his act together soon enough.
WVRed
03-04-2009, 12:28 PM
He is a juco soph. If you're going to juco games to recruit defense you're in the wrong place. He is what he is... A guy that does one or two things well with big time holes in his game.
This is why I hate going the JuCo route, and this was my biggest problem with Gillispie when they hired him.
You might have experienced players coming in, but you are very unlikely to get an elite level player out of the mix. I would rather have players coming directly out of high school that you can develop right out of the gate instead of bringing in a player with maybe 2-3 years of eligibility left that have significant deficiencies in their game and likely have already reached their peak level of performance.
I know what you are saying WVRed but I don't think coaches delve into the JuCo ranks looking for elite level players. They are mostly there looking for role players to provide immediate help IMO.
dabvu2498
03-04-2009, 12:54 PM
This is why I hate going the JuCo route, and this was my biggest problem with Gillispie when they hired him. You might have experienced players coming in, but you are very unlikely to get an elite level player out of the mix. I would rather have players coming directly out of high school that you can develop right out of the gate instead of bringing in a player with maybe 2-3 years of eligibility left that have significant deficiencies in their game and likely have already reached their peak level of performance. Very few Larry Johnsons out there. And you're exactly right. I'd love Galloway if he were a frosh. But he ain't.
This is why I hate going the JuCo route, and this was my biggest problem with Gillispie when they hired him.
You might have experienced players coming in, but you are very unlikely to get an elite level player out of the mix. I would rather have players coming directly out of high school that you can develop right out of the gate instead of bringing in a player with maybe 2-3 years of eligibility left that have significant deficiencies in their game and likely have already reached their peak level of performance.
You think Gillispie WANTED to go the JuCo route? :laugh:
The man was scrambling for any talent he could find.
Again, it seems many people don't understand recruiting in big time college athletics. These kids develop relationships with coaches usually YEARS before they commit.
It's not like Gillispie went and chose to take on two JuCo kids while he had other better options available to him.
joshnky
03-04-2009, 01:11 PM
Again, it seems many people don't understand recruiting in big time college athletics. These kids develop relationships with coaches usually YEARS before they commit.
Shouldn't he have had some relationships from his A&M days? I know he didn't want to raid their commitments but you're making it sound like he started at zero with UK which isn't the truth. Maybe I'm wrong though because apparently WMR is the ONLY one who understands how recruiting works. ;)
Shouldn't he have had some relationships from his A&M days? I know he didn't want to raid their commitments but you're making it sound like he started at zero with UK which isn't the truth. Maybe I'm wrong though because apparently WMR is the ONLY one who understands how recruiting works. ;)
Possibly a few kids but he's looking at a whole different level of recruit being the coach at UK versus at A&M. Furthermore, he told his best incoming freshman to stay at A&M when he likely could've brought him with him to UK. Josh is still only a sophomore and I think KG will be a huge contributor his senior year. Are the two best JuCos in the nation better contributors for this team THIS YEAR and the next than the freshmen that he could've otherwise brought in on short notice? Obviously the answer in his mind is YES. If you think that bringing in a JuCo will be anything but a rare occurrence for BCG once he gets his recruiting train rolling, then you just don't know much about his philosophy concerning recruiting.
He wasn't starting from zero, but just about, especially when you start talking about the top 100 kids. John Wall is an excellent example. He still lists Kentucky, but there's virtually no shot he ends up there because BCG and his staff were able to get involved only very late in the game. He's had a relationship with John Calipari and Memphis for several years now and that's likely where he'll go.
It's not complicated, but I understand how a Louisville grad could struggle with it. ;)
http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/basketball/926-guest-basketball/797-blog-what-is-wrong-with-the-media-lately.html
Best article about UK and this season's struggles and the media's reaction that I've read.
http://www.truebluekentucky.com/index.php/basketball/926-guest-basketball/797-blog-what-is-wrong-with-the-media-lately.html
Best article about UK and this season's struggles and the media's reaction that I've read.
I can agree with some of the points of the article. UK fans can be the worst at accepting a loss. Some believe they should lose only 2 games every year and make the Final Four annually. And Billy G has some obstacles in his way between injuries and inheriting a sub-par recruiting class.
But there are some of us that are somewhere in the middle. We know that they're going to lose games. What bothers us is that they lose games that they shouldn't lose. It wouldn't surprise me that, if we were to poll everyone and ask if they thought Kentucky would lose another "gimme" game to a lower-tier program in Rupp next season, a good number would say that it's likely. That is not what we're used to at Kentucky, and, frankly, we shouldn't have to get used to it.
With 2 games to go last season, UK was 16-11. This year, they're 19-10. Last year, they were 10-4 in conference play. This year, they're 8-6. Given the emergence of Meeks along with Patterson's ability, I think we should expect more...especially with the SEC being down overall this year. Even if they win both remaining games, this team will do worse in the conference than last year.
I admit that I may be overreacting. Perhaps I should just ignore the lack of improvement and see how Gillispie does next year. I may be making the problem bigger than it is. In the same vein, I believe there are some who are minimizing the lack of progress.
cumberlandreds
03-04-2009, 02:57 PM
I can agree with some of the points of the article. UK fans can be the worst at accepting a loss. Some believe they should lose only 2 games every year and make the Final Four annually. And Billy G has some obstacles in his way between injuries and inheriting a sub-par recruiting class.
But there are some of us that are somewhere in the middle. We know that they're going to lose games. What bothers us is that they lose games that they shouldn't lose. It wouldn't surprise me that, if we were to poll everyone and ask if they thought Kentucky would lose another "gimme" game to a lower-tier program in Rupp next season, a good number would say that it's likely. That is not what we're used to at Kentucky, and, frankly, we shouldn't have to get used to it.
With 2 games to go last season, UK was 16-11. This year, they're 19-10. Last year, they were 10-4 in conference play. This year, they're 8-6. Given the emergence of Meeks along with Patterson's ability, I think we should expect more...especially with the SEC being down overall this year. Even if they win both remaining games, this team will do worse in the conference than last year.
I admit that I may be overreacting. Perhaps I should just ignore the lack of improvement and see how Gillispie does next year. I may be making the problem bigger than it is. In the same vein, I believe there are some who are minimizing the lack of progress.
I couldn't agree with you more Durl. The lack of improvement and player development this season has been astonishing. I hardly see any improvement in anyone since the beginning of the season. Miller maybe the most but he's still inconsistent which is normal for a freshman. Porter has a lot,IMO, but he's very limited in his abilities. As you said next year is going to be the telling year for BG. I really hope it turns around then.
BearcatShane
03-04-2009, 04:18 PM
If Kentucky loses Saturday against Florida, what will they have to do in the SEC Tourney to get into the NCAA's? The reason I ask is because me being a Bearcat fan wouldn't mind having a UC-UK matchup in the NIT. Gates vs Patterson could be fun. Now, having said that, I do hope UK makes the NCAA Tournament. I also hope that both UC and UK return to the top 10 of college basketball where we belong. It was fun when UC and UK were both elite teams. Even though I hated UK, I loved it.
joshnky
03-04-2009, 04:22 PM
Gates vs Patterson could be fun.
I have a feeling this match up would be much more fun for UK fans than UC fans.
BearcatShane
03-04-2009, 04:34 PM
I have a feeling this match up would be much more fun for UK fans than UC fans.
I agree, but I still think it would be a fun matchup. Gates would gain some valuable experience from going up against someone like Patterson. Gates held his own vs Hasheem Thabeet. Blair handled him though.
If Kentucky loses Saturday against Florida, what will they have to do in the SEC Tourney to get into the NCAA's? The reason I ask is because me being a Bearcat fan wouldn't mind having a UC-UK matchup in the NIT. Gates vs Patterson could be fun. Now, having said that, I do hope UK makes the NCAA Tournament. I also hope that both UC and UK return to the top 10 of college basketball where we belong. It was fun when UC and UK were both elite teams. Even though I hated UK, I loved it.
Lose to Florida and they'd need to win two games in the SEC tourney, IMO, to feel safe.
As others have said, the 34 is weakkkkk this year, so one win could end up allowing them to back in.
joshnky
03-04-2009, 05:09 PM
Lose to Florida and they'd need to win two games in the SEC tourney, IMO, to feel safe.
As others have said, the 34 is weakkkkk this year, so one win could end up allowing them to back in.
It certainly seems like everyone is losing right now. Just in the Big East alone Notre Dame, Georgetown, and Cincy have all had bad losses of late to put them on the wrong side of the bubble.
BearcatShane
03-04-2009, 05:17 PM
It certainly seems like everyone is losing right now. Just in the Big East alone Notre Dame, Georgetown, and Cincy have all had bad losses of late to put them on the wrong side of the bubble.
That is what infuriates me so mush about UC losing at USF, if they would of taken care of business vs USF and Seton Hall this Saturday and won maybe just one game in New York UC might have gotten a bid.
dabvu2498
03-04-2009, 05:19 PM
Still have to beat UGa. My prediction if UK and UC were to match up: bad basketball.
Still have to beat UGa. My prediction if UK and UC were to match up: bad basketball.
Oh my...a loss to Georgia would probably be a final dagger. UK will win tonight.
WVRed
03-04-2009, 09:52 PM
Oh my...a loss to Georgia would probably be a final dagger. UK will win tonight.
I hope, but right now Georgia is up by 4. Porter is the unsung hero right now with four threes.
Boston Red
03-04-2009, 10:56 PM
Things are gonna get ugly for BG if they can't pull this one out. Down five with about 2:30 to play.
IslandRed
03-04-2009, 11:04 PM
With 2 games to go last season, UK was 16-11. This year, they're 19-10. Last year, they were 10-4 in conference play. This year, they're 8-6. Given the emergence of Meeks along with Patterson's ability, I think we should expect more...especially with the SEC being down overall this year. Even if they win both remaining games, this team will do worse in the conference than last year.
With the disclaimer that UK became a secondary affiliation when I went to college somewhere else, I still follow them and root for them... I agree with the above. I know Gillispie didn't walk into a turnkey team, but there aren't a lot of teams out there with a pair like Patterson and Meeks. It shouldn't be that hard to fill in around them with useful role players, especially for a guy who can recruit like Gillispie, and in a sport where other high-profile programs like Kansas or UNC can get back to the Tournament with little suspense despite practically replacing the entire team from the year before. Something's not quite right and I'm not sure what.
DTCromer
03-04-2009, 11:11 PM
:beerme: to the SEC tonight.
LSU. . . .and then maybe who?? gets a tourney bid? Tennessee and South Carolina?
3 bid league?
joshnky
03-04-2009, 11:13 PM
That was a really bad loss. Gillispie hasn't experienced any heat compared to what he will face now after a home loss to the worst team in the SEC and an NIT trip imminent.
WVRed
03-04-2009, 11:13 PM
Get ready for a Big Blue meltdown.
This team has completely tanked down the stretch. I'm just speechless right now.
Boston Red
03-04-2009, 11:13 PM
I'm guessing Rhode Island is pleased with the way the night went.
Auburn might be the best bet for a fourth bid out of the SEC. Crazy as that sounds.
joshnky
03-04-2009, 11:15 PM
This team has completely tanked down the stretch. I'm just speechless right now.
This is when youth is supposed to be experienced and freshman become sophomores. I know this has happened at UofL as the light has come on with some of the freshman. Perhaps UK's situation might look differently now if Liggins and Miller had gotten more consistent playing throughout the year.
This is when youth is supposed to be experienced and freshman become sophomores. I know this has happened at UofL as the light has come on with some of the freshman. Perhaps UK's situation might look differently now if Liggins and Miller had gotten more consistent playing throughout the year.
Not sure what game you were watching but Miller played great although that's one of those great criticisms that can't be proven or disproven.
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