View Full Version : United States Men's National Team: The March to South Africa
There are many things to discuss about this game, but one thing I definitely want to mention is the play of our centerbacks. They have truly been world-class this tournament, especially Oguchi Onyewu. DeMerit has been very, very strong as well.
Hoosier Red
06-24-2009, 09:59 PM
Ya know its funny even in the 3-0 and 3-1 loss the back line didn't play terribly. And the last two games they've been tremendous.
SMcGavin
06-24-2009, 10:09 PM
There are many things to discuss about this game, but one thing I definitely want to mention is the play of our centerbacks. They have truly been world-class this tournament, especially Oguchi Onyewu. DeMerit has been very, very strong as well.
Absolutely. Onyewu and DeMerit were the stars of the game. Their performance against constant pressure in the second half was truly outstanding.
There is a rumor going around that Michael Bradley waited for the ref after the game and had to be restrained from attacking him... hopefully it is heavily embellished because he could be looking at a lengthy suspension otherwise.
On Sunday, Altidore had sent a warning to Capdevila.
"He sent me a message and told me that we had to be careful," Capdevila said. "But his Spanish is not so great, so I think he made a mistake."
:laugh: That's good.
Yachtzee
06-24-2009, 10:56 PM
There is a rumor going around that Michael Bradley waited for the ref after the game and had to be restrained from attacking him... hopefully it is heavily embellished because he could be looking at a lengthy suspension otherwise.
I saw that rumor on big soccer, but I haven't heard it confirmed by an English-language source.
U.S. roster for Gold Cup has been announced:
GOALKEEPERS (3): Jon Busch (Chicago Fire), Troy Perkins (IK Start), Luis Robles (FC Kaiserslautern)
DEFENDERS (7): Steve Cherundolo (Hannover 96), Jimmy Conrad (Kansas City Wizards), Clarence Goodson (IK Start), Jay Heaps (New England Revolution), Chad Marshall (Columbus Crew), Michael Parkhurst (FC Nordsjaellands), Heath Pearce (Hansa Rostock)
MIDFIELDERS (8): Davy Arnaud (Kansas City Wizards), Kyle Beckerman (Real Salt Lake), Colin Clark (Colorado Rapids), Sam Cronin (Toronto FC), Brad Evans (Seattle Sounders), Stuart Holden (Houston Dynamo), Logan Pause (Chicago Fire), Robbie Rogers (Columbus Crew)
FORWARDS (5): Freddy Adu (AS Monaco), Brian Ching (Houston Dynamo), Kenny Cooper (FC Dallas), Charlie Davies (Hammarby IF), Santino Quaranta (D.C. United)
Some guys I wanted to see in there:
Jose Torres - though I suppose he might need a break after a long season and Confed Cup.
Michael Orozco - though it's hard to complain about the CB choices, the U.S. has crazy depth at that position.
Marvell Wynne - this should have been a showcase for him.
Jermaine Jones - welcome to the USA baby.
Robbie Findley - having himself a fine season with RSL.
Chris Pontius - they picked the wrong DCU forward. Quaranta is a bum.
Jeremiah White - worth a serious look, IMO.
Hoosier Red
06-28-2009, 11:53 AM
Not a big fan of Grant Wahl's idea to play a 4-2-3-1.
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/grant_wahl/posts/68762-usa-brazil-a-chance-to-make-history
• Will the U.S. go 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1? Bob Bradley has a tough choice to make. Even the coach has acknowledged that the U.S. seems to play better in a 4-4-2 with Jozy Altidore and Charlie Davies as the two U.S. forwards. But Michael Bradley's loss means the U.S. might want more defensive cover in the midfield to deal with the wide-ranging Kaká, his wing man Ramires and withdrawn forward Robinho, to say nothing of holding midfielders Felipe Melo and Gilberto Silva. That could mean yanking Davies and asking Sacha Kljestan to play alongside Ricardo Clark in the defensive midfield behind an attacking central mid (Benny Feilhaber perhaps?) with Clint Dempsey and Landon Donovan on the flanks and Altidore up top.
No. One striker has proved totally disastrous. What a huge step backward that would be to revert to the single striker set-up for the Final.
Hoosier Red
06-28-2009, 12:39 PM
I think it invites the timid approach that plagued the first two games, play 4-4-2 and take it to Brazil. That was one of the keys to beating Spain was to not be intimidated into playing a turtle shell game.
Playing a complete shell versus Brazil without being able to threaten them in their own third on occasion is the perfect recipe to be picking the ball out of your net for 90 minutes.
Hoosier Red
06-28-2009, 12:45 PM
Agreed, I think the answer is to play 4-4-2 but have Clark back as almost a full time defensive mid(the same advantage you'd have with a 4-5-1 and Falheiber with the freedom to move as Bradley and Clark did last game.
It's not like Clark was adding a lot to the offensive attack anyway.
Yeah that sounds very good to me. Make Clarke's responsibilities almost 100% defensive allowing Benny to do what he does best. I certainly would have preferred having MB for this contest, but Benny is the exact type of player we need versus a country like Brazil. A player who is comfortable with the ball at his feet and can make smart, fast decisions with the ball.
reds1869
06-28-2009, 01:43 PM
I think the answer is to pray. A bunch. A whole bunch. ;)
Lineups are out and thankfully it is the same as the last game asides from the expected sub of Benny for Michael.
Oh My God!!! Dempsey nets a goal in the 10th minute versus Brazil!!!!!
:usa:
I think Davies could've drawn a penalty in the 14th minute if he had gone down.
redhawkfish
06-28-2009, 03:05 PM
Holy crap! What a give and go goal by Davies and Donovan. 2-0 USA!!
OH MY FREAKING GAWDDDDD
hahahahahahaha
this is glorious right now
redhawkfish
06-28-2009, 03:08 PM
Howard with a point blank save!!
i'm going to run around my neighborhood butt-naked if we win
ladies get ready
Benny Feilhaber has a good deal more bite to his game than you would think. He can actually dig in pretty well.
reds1869
06-28-2009, 03:33 PM
My cat thinks I'm crazy...I've been all over the place screaming. If my wife were home she would confirm that I was crazy, but man am I enjoying myself.
reds1869
06-28-2009, 03:57 PM
OK, now I'm getting nervous...
Jozy has driven the Brazilian defenders absolutely bananas today. I love it.
WHAT A SAVE BY TIM!!
Bob needs to make a sub now. 72nd min.
Oh god Sacha, please don't screw up.
damn it. You could sort of feel it coming. damn.
I've got a bad feeling now.
C'mon boys.
man harkes is so freaking bad at commentary. i could ignore it as long as we were doing well, but it immediately is like nails on a chalkboard as soon as we're down. hahaha
I'm still damn proud of these guys. After the early ugliness this squad worked hard and played as a team.
They should feel very good about themselves leaving this tournament. Now let's go down to Azteca and beat Mexico.
My only real problem with Bob Bradley right now is the way he is utilizing his subs. He is still utterly failing at this.
He waits too long to make his first sub (and then the 2nd and 3rd as well) and I don't like the choice of Kljestan. He does not appear in form and has zero confidence.
Secondly, why take off Altidore? He was causing the Brazilians fits.
DTCromer
06-28-2009, 04:26 PM
Aaaaaand the Americans show what US soccer is all about.
Great choke job today guys. Could've proved something to a lot of people and you blow it.
Aaaaaand the Americans show what US soccer is all about.
Great choke job today guys. Could've proved something to a lot of people and you blow it.
:laugh:
The United States did not choke. A choke would've resulted in a win for Brazil around 5 - nil. They acquitted themselves very admirably versus a squad made up of world-class players.
They should all be very proud and so should US Soccer fans.
DTCromer
06-28-2009, 04:30 PM
:laugh:
The United States did not choke. A choke would've resulted in a win for Brazil around 5 - nil. They acquitted themselves very admirably versus a squad made up of world-class players.
They should all be very proud and so should US Soccer fans.
Playing not to lose instead of to win when you're up 2-0 is choking. I don't care if it was Brazil, if you're up 2-0, you should win. . . especially since this team has something to prove.
Don't tell me you're trying to rationalize this into a moral victory. Moral victories are for losers.
Playing not to lose instead of to win when you're up 2-0 is choking. I don't care if it was Brazil, if you're up 2-0, you should win. . . especially since this team has something to prove.
You think they were playing not to lose? They continued to attack as best they could the entire game.
Brazil's quality won out in the end, and there's no shame in that.
The more I think about BB's subs however, the angrier I get. He really is out of his element at this level.
improbus
06-28-2009, 09:07 PM
You think they were playing not to lose? They continued to attack as best they could the entire game.
Brazil's quality won out in the end, and there's no shame in that.
The more I think about BB's subs however, the angrier I get. He really is out of his element at this level.
Yeah, but he doesn't have a tremendous amount of depth to work with.
improbus
06-28-2009, 09:12 PM
Playing not to lose instead of to win when you're up 2-0 is choking. I don't care if it was Brazil, if you're up 2-0, you should win. . . especially since this team has something to prove.
Don't tell me you're trying to rationalize this into a moral victory. Moral victories are for losers.
Sorry, but Brazil was sleepwalking in the first half. When they finally got the car warmed up it was goodnight. I don't think it was anything that the USA did or didn't do, but it was Brazil taking the game to the Americans. I'm not saying that they couldn't have done better, but I don't want to place the "blame" on the US. Brazil simply was playing inspired football.
It reminded me alot of a 13-14 seed playing a 3-4 seed in the NCAA tournament. The little guy jumps out to a quick lead, but eventually Kansas/Duke/UNC/UK turns on the jets and blows them away.
Yeah, but he doesn't have a tremendous amount of depth to work with.
He couldn't have chosen a worse sub than Sacha. Just a pathetically poor decision.
improbus
06-28-2009, 09:47 PM
He couldn't have chosen a worse sub than Sacha. Just a pathetically poor decision.
Unfortunately, he was the only option as he was the only guy on the bench not named Beasley that had played significant minutes in the tournament.
Yachtzee
06-28-2009, 10:22 PM
I think the US really showed up well against some incredibly tough competition in this tournament. Two things I think give us hope for next year's World Cup: 1) The US raising its level of play when the chips were down and coming through big to advance and then beat the #1 team in the world to make the finals, 2) The weather in South Africa this time of year. I think it was apparent that, as the weather got colder, the US seemed to deal with it a lot better than other teams. It seemed to take a long time for Brazil to get comfortable in today's game. I think that might bode well for the US and those European teams accustomed to playing in colder weather.
Betterread
06-28-2009, 10:27 PM
Playing not to lose instead of to win when you're up 2-0 is choking. I don't care if it was Brazil, if you're up 2-0, you should win. . . especially since this team has something to prove.
Don't tell me you're trying to rationalize this into a moral victory. Moral victories are for losers.
No way this team choked. They played above their level and almost pulled off a shocker. Even though they didn't win, they placed 2nd in a FIFA tournament. This may not be the WC, but for a minor tournament, its relatively competitive. US team just ran out of gas. They drove Brazil to their limit.
Hoosier Red
06-28-2009, 10:59 PM
He couldn't have chosen a worse sub than Sacha. Just a pathetically poor decision.
I agree with Improbus, there was no option better than Sasha. I've read people talking about how the Brazilian coach out coached Bradley because of the subs, but basically anyone Brazil brought in was going to be better than the US options. Especially without Bradley to start with.
I would have liked to see the first sub earlier, but on the flip side because they were playing with a one goal lead, its better to hold off in case the subs needed to go the extra 30.
I'm admittedly not as savvy about tactics and the like but have trouble seeing much harm in Bradley's decision making today.
Bob Bradley could've drawn names out of a hat and chosen a better candidate than Sacha.
There's some good analysis in this thread that does a good job illustrating just how poorly Bradley handled his subs and how it really was the turning point in the loss.
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1082509
There were plenty of options on the bench. Wait, you're telling me that Sasha is the only one on the bench asides from Beasley who had played in the tournament? And THAT'S supposed to be an excuse? Who called these players into camp in the first place? :laugh: Haven't heard that attempted excuse before.
Hoosier Red
06-29-2009, 10:13 AM
That really doesn't look like a good conversation as much as a blamestorming session.
US wins, yeah players!!
US Loses, Bradley's an idiot.
Seriously, people were complaining about Bornstein when having the one guy who is almost starter quality back allowing the US to play three central defenders in a game where they can't give up any goals is a bad idea?
Klejstein made sense in that he's the more defensive minded midfielder. Certainly more defensive minded than Adu(that would have been fun.) or Torres who continues to win wild applause for mild results.
And Casey came on because Bob was smart enough to wait on his last sub to see if there was a need for a forward. Altidore had come out so it made sense to make the last sub a guy capable of holding the ball and getting a head on set pieces.
I can definately see the argument for bringing at least one sub in at 60 minutes, but I can see Bradley's argument against it.
I'm just curious who should Bradley have brought in over Bornstein and Klejstein?
Did you even read the thread? I'm guessing you didn't with a supposed summary like that. There are a few idiots, but there is also some very good debate that folks here could learn from, I think.
:shakes head: On what planet is Sasha a defensive minded midfielder? And what we needed there was a player who can actually trap and pass the ball without surrendering possession to the Brazilians.
You don't seem to know very much about Torres if you're willing to dismiss him like that. You should do some reading up on the Mexican team that he plays for (one of the best teams in the western hemisphere).
Torres was the clear sub over Kljestan. The Bornstein sub I'm okay with, I guess. There's at least a rationalization for that one.
Here's some advice BOB: Don't call in players if you're not going to play them. Radical thinking for sure. :laugh:
I'm just curious who should Bradley have brought in over Bornstein and Klejstein?
The less Adu and Torres play, the higher they get rated.
Torres is theoretically interesting, but I think it's fair to say he's not impressing the U.S. coaches. After the Costa Rica drubbing, Bradley clearly doesn't want him on the pitch in a game that counts for something.
I'm increasingly convinced Adu's only around because of USSF politics.
The "Why have them on the team if you're not going to play them?" argument is right to an extent, but it's not a case for playing Adu and Torres. Rather it's a case for not having them on the team.
It'll be interesting to see if Bradley emerges from Confed Cup with a little more clout. If so, I doubt we'll see Adu or Torres on the squad for upcoming World Cup qualifiers.
The less Adu and Torres play, the higher they get rated.
Torres is theoretically interesting, but I think it's fair to say he's not impressing the U.S. coaches. After the Costa Rica drubbing, Bradley clearly doesn't want him on the pitch in a game that counts for something.
I'm increasingly convinced Adu's only around because of USSF politics.
The "Why have them on the team if you're not going to play them?" argument is right to an extent, but it's not a case for playing Adu and Torres. Rather it's a case for not having them on the team.
It'll be interesting to see if Bradley emerges from Confed Cup with a little more clout. If so, I doubt we'll see Adu or Torres on the squad for upcoming World Cup qualifiers.
So Torres is the one who gets the eternal banishment from the Costa Rica game. :lol: I hope you can see how intellectually lazy that thinking is, M2. Sasha is impressing them? With what? His ability to turn the ball over or misplay a pass. I wonder what Beasley was doing to impress them so much before even the eternally loyal BB realized he sucks horribly right now.
Torres should be on this squad and he should be playing. Period. I guess you'd rather go with crappy players who we know are crappy than young guys who might actually give us something interesting out there.
Torres should be on this squad and he should be playing. Period. I guess you'd rather go with crappy players who we know are crappy than young guys who might actually give us something interesting out there.
I saw Torres' version of interesting against Costa Rica, when he got twisted around like a pretzel. I get the theory that Torres might help, and I'd have liked to see him get a chance during Gold Cup to show something, but there's no mistaking how the U.S. coaching staff rates him (exceedingly low). Maybe they're wrong, but he's clearly not impressing the folks he needs to impress. You can knock Kljestan and Beasley until the cows come home, and I suspect their spots are there for the taking. Yet Torres isn't taking their spots.
As for Adu, it's not a conspiracy theory that keeps him from getting into a game at the club or national level.
I saw Torres' version of interesting against Costa Rica, when he got twisted around like a pretzel. I get the theory that Torres might help, and I'd have liked to see him get a chance during Gold Cup to show something, but there's no mistaking how the U.S. coaching staff rates him (exceedingly low). Maybe they're wrong, but he's clearly not impressing the folks he needs to impress.
As for Adu, it's not a conspiracy theory that keeps him from getting into a game at the club or national level.
Sticking with that 45 mins versus CR, huh? C'mon man, that is such lame, contorted logic. You're the one who is constantly trumpeting about playing at the club level if you want to play for the NT. Sort of hard defending both sides of the same argument, huh? Asides from the guys in Europe, not a single one has a club situation as good as Torres right now. But he's not a Bob favorite. Mystery solved.
Maybe if Torres and Freddy seek a transfer to Chivas USA they can get the Sacha Kljestan treatment as well?
So Torres is the one who gets the eternal banishment from the Costa Rica game. :lol: I hope you can see how intellectually lazy that thinking is, M2.
I think it's pretty clear the coaching staff thought it was a horrific performance. Torres got yanked at the half in that game and hasn't seen the pitch since then.
The coaches don't trust him. That's just a statement of the obvious. It's not me he needs to impress.
Is there some point at which Torres bears responsibility for not being able to beat out Kljestan for playing time?
Maybe if Torres and Freddy seek a transfer to Chivas USA they can get the Sacha Kljestan treatment as well?
At this point, Adu would be lucky to get a gig playing with EJ for the Austin Aztex.
At this point, Adu would be lucky to get a gig playing with EJ for the Austin Aztex.
:lol:
I wholly disagree but no use getting that argument going again.
We could probably argue over this crap all day.
Let's just hope Robobob gets a CPU upgrade before 2010 that fixes his "substitution glitch."
Let's also hope that Adu follows Torres' good example and finds a club where he can play consistently so he can get some appearances for the USMNT. Oh wait.
I think it's pretty clear the coaching staff thought it was a horrific performance. Torres got yanked at the half in that game and hasn't seen the pitch since then.
The coaches don't trust him. That's just a statement of the obvious. It's not me he needs to impress.
Is there some point at which Torres bears responsibility for not being able to beat out Kljestan for playing time?
Torres did just as well as anyone else out there. (or just as poorly)
You honestly believe that his performance versus CR is why he didn't play in the Confed Cup?
Did Torres ever play for BB at the club level? Sasha has. But Bob doesn't play favorites, now does he?
Torres did just as well as anyone else out there. (or just as poorly)
You honestly believe that his performance versus CR is why he didn't play in the Confed Cup?
Did Torres ever play for BB at the club level? Sasha has. But Bob doesn't play favorites, now does he?
I think Torres either failed to do something he was specifically told to do vs. Costa Rica or has responded particularly poorly since then (or both). He's become one of the last options on the bench since then. He got yanked after a half in that game and hasn't been seen since. Torres' fortunes with the national squad clearly reversed with that game.
I don't know what exactly is going on there, but there's more to it than has been made public. That's pretty obvious at this point. From a completely theoretical standpoint, I'd like to see Torres in the mix. I think he could be a key player in getting that win at Azteca (and I want that win something fierce). Yet he's got to convince the people in charge of handing out the playing time that he can get the job done out on the field.
Playing favorites is what managers do. It's part and parcel of the job. Bradley trusts Kljestan. Is he supposed to play the guys he doesn't trust? Say what you will about Kljestan, but his 2008 form was quite good. He's not in that same form at the moment, but it's not like there's some other in-form player on the roster who ought to be played instead. Essentially the argument for Torres or Adu is maybe they'll play better if they get a chance. It's not a case of either one having forced his way into the mix. As such, I can see where Bradley figures he might as well play the out-of-form guy he trusts the most instead of the out-of-form guys he may not trust at all.
FWIW, I think there's midfield jobs to be won on the USMNT. Holden and Arnaud could very well find themselves in qualifiers if they shine during Gold Cup.
NJReds
06-29-2009, 12:49 PM
Torres did just as well as anyone else out there. (or just as poorly)
You honestly believe that his performance versus CR is why he didn't play in the Confed Cup?
I don't know how anyone could evaluate performance in that Costa Rica game. The field was a joke. It was Astroturf older than the Kingdome. The ball was bouncing around like a superball. The only thing you could mark a guy down for in that game was lack of effort.
I'm just still dealing with the frustration that the game was there for the taking. When Dunga went with Elano and Dani Alves, we needed a manager with the courage to make the choice to bring in players who would at least give us a CHANCE to get some possession back and play with Brazil. And Bob Bradley chose Sacha Kljestan and Bornstein.
Everyone should give Landon Donovan heaps of praise after his performance in this tournament. I'm not sure I've ever seen a more fully committed player. The way he would run after the ball and make play after play--THE SMART PLAY--even if it was just redirecting the ball to end up further downfield for the Brazilians to chase if that was the only play available to him.
LD desperately needs to get out of MLS and into a quality European side. He has got all the tools in the world to compete and thrive in a technical league. Italy or Spain would be perfect for him.
I'm just still dealing with the frustration that the game was there for the taking. When Dunga went with Elano and Dani Alves, we needed a manager with the courage to make the choice to bring in players who would at least give us a CHANCE to get some possession back and play with Brazil. And Bob Bradley chose Sacha Kljestan and Bornstein.
The larger problem is the U.S. had no good answer to Elano and Alves. Almost no national side outside of Spain and Argentina does.
Everyone should give Landon Donovan heaps of praise after his performance in this tournament. I'm not sure I've ever seen a more fully committed player. The way he would run after the ball and make play after play--THE SMART PLAY--even if it was just redirecting the ball to end up further downfield for the Brazilians to chase if that was the only play available to him.
LD desperately needs to get out of MLS and into a quality European side. He has got all the tools in the world to compete and thrive in a technical league. Italy or Spain would be perfect for him.
I though Lando played well. Didn't think he was the best player on the team by any stretch, but I thought he made a consistently positive contribution. Bradley's figured out how to get the most out of Lando's game - stick him out on the wing and let him be an Energizer Bunny.
He does need out of MLS, but the question is will the league be willing to sell him for what he's worth? And has he come to grips with being a full-time winger? He's not going to be a big-time goal scorer in a foreign league. If he wants to play up front and the league is going to value him as a 20+ goal striker, then he may be with the Galaxy the rest of his career. If he's willing to play out on the wing and the league is willing to take the kind of money it got for Dempsey, then he'll find a good situation.
I'd tell him to stay a million miles away from Italy (he runs too much and it would annoy Italian coaches). But he could play mid-table in Spain, Germany or France. He could play mid-table in England too, but every club in that league stockpiles the roster and he could find himself lost in the shuffle.
Really, I thought Landon was Man of the Tournament for the United States (perhaps share the honor with Dempsey). He had a hand in seemingly every goal we scored--aside from the Spector to Dempsey connection--and did a yeoman's job of getting back on defense.
"Best" player isn't easily quantifiable ... Most Important is.
I think Landon can do a lot more than you're giving him credit for. I hope he takes his chance.
I think Landon can do a lot more than you're giving him credit for.
I'm giving him plenty of credit. He had a good tournament. I just don't worship at his altar is all (unlike, say, John Harkes).
So who would be your Man of the Tournament for the USA?
I'm giving him plenty of credit. He had a good tournament. I just don't worship at his altar is all (unlike, say, John Harkes).
I thought Harkes worships at the altar of Redundant Commentary?
Caveat Emperor
06-29-2009, 02:12 PM
He does need out of MLS, but the question is will the league be willing to sell him for what he's worth?
The trouble here is that what's good for the USMNT (getting their best players over to Europe so they can see higher-quality competition and train with higher-quality teams) isn't always what's in the best short-term interest of MLS (keeping bigger name American-born players in America).
NJReds
06-29-2009, 02:18 PM
I'd tell him to stay a million miles away from Italy (he runs too much and it would annoy Italian coaches). But he could play mid-table in Spain, Germany or France. He could play mid-table in England too, but every club in that league stockpiles the roster and he could find himself lost in the shuffle.
He's too small for Italy. He'd get destroyed there. I wouldn't send a striker to play in Serie A until later in their career. Onyewu would be a good fit in Serie A, though.
He'd be a good fit in Spain. Lot's of free space to run around the midfield and not much defense to be found.
NJReds
06-29-2009, 02:21 PM
Really, I thought Landon was Man of the Tournament for the United States (perhaps share the honor with Dempsey). He had a hand in seemingly every goal we scored--aside from the Spector to Dempsey connection--and did a yeoman's job of getting back on defense.
"Best" player isn't easily quantifiable ... Most Important is.
I think Landon can do a lot more than you're giving him credit for. I hope he takes his chance.
No doubt. The best three players for the US were Donovan, Howard, Onyewu. If you throw out the first two games, then Dempsey's in the discussion.
So who would be your Man of the Tournament for the USA?
I don't know that there was a single standout performer. Basically the starting XI from yesterday plus Bradley all played well, though none of them were perfect vessels.
Howard once again showed his shot-stopping prowess. Dempsey, I think, realized he needs to assume more of the run-of-play scoring responsibility. Altidore physically imposed himself on some top flight defenders. Davies injected much needed speed up top. Bradley, Clark and Feilhaber played some tenacious midfield. The back line played nicely, though it still doesn't have a 90-minute answer to a Brazilian onslaught.
For me, Donovan didn't stand out so much as fit in, which is in itself quite a compliment.
Hoosier Red
06-29-2009, 03:08 PM
Really, I thought Landon was Man of the Tournament for the United States (perhaps share the honor with Dempsey). He had a hand in seemingly every goal we scored--aside from the Spector to Dempsey connection--and did a yeoman's job of getting back on defense.
"Best" player isn't easily quantifiable ... Most Important is.
I think Landon can do a lot more than you're giving him credit for. I hope he takes his chance.
I think Landon was the man of the tournament, and I think M2 is right he's found a place where he can be comfortable. I think equally important the US has found two options who can play up front meaning Landon never has to be the reserved forward again. A role he never does well in.
I think Landon was the man of the tournament, and I think M2 is right he's found a place where he can be comfortable. I think equally important the US has found two options who can play up front meaning Landon never has to be the reserved forward again. A role he never does well in.
I think overall we should leave this tournament feeling good about ourselves and where our country's soccer team is headed both for 2010 and beyond.
I do want to say that a Maurice Edu for instance would've been very helpful in this tournament. I'm just sick and tired of seeing Bob wait too long to make a sub every single freaking game. Time to demonstrate the ability to improve in this area, Bob Bradley. That should be one of the biggest things taken away from this tournament moving forward. That deficiency in Bob Bradley's strategy has been revealed once again... this time on the world stage.
Hoosier Red
06-29-2009, 03:31 PM
I think the biggest problem the US had yesterday was they had no idea what to do with a 2-0 lead at halftime. And who could blame them to an extent, who on earth could have forseen that.
To be honest, it might have been better just to sub in 2 extra defenders and take Davies and Altidore at halftime, Brazil certainly wasn't worried about a US counter.
Than when Brazil scored the 1st goal, you could just see everyone trying to hold on. I wanted subs earlier too but I don't know that it would have necessarily changed anything.
I think the biggest problem the US had yesterday was they had no idea what to do with a 2-0 lead at halftime. And who could blame them to an extent, who on earth could have forseen that.
To be honest, it might have been better just to sub in 2 extra defenders and take Davies and Altidore at halftime, Brazil certainly wasn't worried about a US counter.
Than when Brazil scored the 1st goal, you could just see everyone trying to hold on. I wanted subs earlier too but I don't know that it would have necessarily changed anything.
I feel the same way in that regard. I do think it has cost us in previous matches very directly. Much more than could be honestly projected in the Brazil game. And part of that is due to the lack of options on the bench.
This tournament should also drive home that BB MUST develop some more options that HE feels comfortable playing but who CAN ALSO ACTUALLY PLAY. haha. Perhaps the Gold Cup can be a step in this direction. What we MUST stop doing however is going to the same old wells. Time to drill some new ones. After the first 11-13 men or so the net should be cast far and wide during this next year because our desperate need for depth demands it.
I also hope like hell that Freddy FREAKING Adu goes somewhere, ANYWHERE, he can get consistent run. I think he can bring a missing element to this team, but he's got to improve his club situation, even if it means spending a short time in a lower league to re-establish his career path.
NJReds
06-29-2009, 04:07 PM
I feel the same way in that regard. I do think it has cost us in previous matches very directly. Much more than could be honestly projected in the Brazil game. And part of that is due to the lack of options on the bench.
I agree with both of you. But even though Bradley annoys me with his subs, yesterday, what I'll take away from this tournament is that the US can play with most teams in the world. They destroyed Egypt. They battled Spain and completely outworked and outhustled them.
They hung with Brazil, but even with the effort that they put forth it was only a matter of time because Brazil is a much, much better and more skilled team. Not having Bradley because of that terrible Red Card killed the US depth yesterday. Meanwhile, Brazil left players like Diego and Ronaldhino at home. Pato barely made the field in South Africa. The talent gap there is huge.
What I want to see from the US is the same level of smart play and hustle and hard work when they play Costa Rica, Honduras, Mexico, Trinidad and Tobago, etc.
Hoosier Red
06-29-2009, 04:08 PM
This tournament should also drive home that BB MUST develop some more options that HE feels comfortable playing but who CAN ALSO ACTUALLY PLAY. haha. Perhaps the Gold Cup can be a step in this direction. What we MUST stop doing however is going to the same old wells. Time to drill some new ones. After the first 11-13 men or so the net should be cast far and wide during this next year because our desperate need for depth demands it.
I also hope like hell that Freddy FREAKING Adu goes somewhere, ANYWHERE, he can get consistent run. I think he can bring a missing element to this team, but he's got to improve his club situation, even if it means spending a short time in a lower league to re-establish his career path.
Now those points I can agree with. It was actually the same problem at the end of the '06 run where Arena had his guys who he was comfortable with, weather they deserved to be on the field or not.
The midfield can be a strength for the US but they need 3-4 guys to show up and prove they can be counted on. You need 3-4 guys to be noticeably better than Klejstein. Than you can feel good.
I agree with both of you. But even though Bradley annoys me with his subs, yesterday, what I'll take away from this tournament is that the US can play with most teams in the world. They destroyed Egypt. They battled Spain and completely outworked and outhustled them.
They hung with Brazil, but even with the effort that they put forth it was only a matter of time because Brazil is a much, much better and more skilled team. Not having Bradley because of that terrible Red Card killed the US depth yesterday. Meanwhile, Brazil left players like Diego and Ronaldhino at home. Pato barely made the field in South Africa. The talent gap there is huge.
What I want to see from the US is the same level of smart play and hustle and hard work when they play Costa Rica, Honduras, Mexico, Trinidad and Tobago, etc.
That's a great, great point.
The guys we watched during qualifying ARE NOT the men who stepped onto the field versus Italy, Egypt, Spain, and Brazil. They played the type of American soccer that Alexi Lalas was talking about: heart, conviction, and outworking the other guy. We hadn't seen that in a while from this team and I hope they can sustain the output demonstrated in this tournament. Demanding that they perform this way versus ALL opponents would be a HUGE step forward in our country's progress as a footballing nation.
Also: Jozy Altidore must improve his conditioning. He's at an age where going 90 minutes should be no big deal.
What I want to see from the US is the same level of smart play and hustle and hard work when they play Costa Rica, Honduras, Mexico, Trinidad and Tobago, etc.
I agree in theory, but the reality is the U.S. is the Brazil/Spain equivalent in most of its continental matchups. It has to carry the play to the other team in those situations and can't settle into a disrupt/counter pattern.
The U.S. has great legs, always has. If the game came down to which team does the most running, the U.S. would be perpetually undefeated. It's a challenger style, the way you play when you know you've got to compensate for the other team's skill advantage. It's how the U.S. started to get the better of Mexico a decade ago - you go ahead and play pretty, we're here to rip your lungs out. Yet I'm not sure Mexico is more skilled anymore. The current Mexican players certainly don't finish well, nor do they deliver a telling final ball. Maybe Costa Rica has more skill at the moment, but that's not a given.
It means the U.S. has to play two different brands of football - one for World Cup qualifying and Gold Cup, another for World Cup, Confed Cup and Copa America. The good news is that the U.S. has more skill, so it can get better results by playing the "American" style Lalas and Harkes were talking about. Yet when playing on the continent, the team has to figure out how to do better in maintaining possession and organizing a structured build up.
NJReds
06-29-2009, 05:07 PM
I agree in theory, but the reality is the U.S. is the Brazil/Spain equivalent in most of its continental matchups. It has to carry the play to the other team in those situations and can't settle into a disrupt/counter pattern.
The U.S. has great legs, always has. If the game came down to which team does the most running, the U.S. would be perpetually undefeated. It's a challenger style, the way you play when you know you've got to compensate for the other team's skill advantage. It's how the U.S. started to get the better of Mexico a decade ago - you go ahead and play pretty, we're here to rip your lungs out. Yet I'm not sure Mexico is more skilled anymore. The current Mexican players certainly don't finish well, nor do they deliver a telling final ball. Maybe Costa Rica has more skill at the moment, but that's not a given.
It means the U.S. has to play two different brands of football - one for World Cup qualifying and Gold Cup, another for World Cup, Confed Cup and Copa America. The good news is that the U.S. has more skill, so it can get better results by playing the "American" style Lalas and Harkes were talking about. Yet when playing on the continent, the team has to figure out how to do better in maintaining possession and organizing a structured build up.
Very well put. I agree.
However, in their some of their recent CONCACAF matches they came out sleepwalking and gave up a goal to the opponent almost off the starting whistle. So while they may outskill these teams, they still need to come out with focus and play with determination on the defensive end, win possession and be patient in the buildup.
NJReds
06-30-2009, 02:05 PM
I'm not sure if this deserves another topic, but I'm tired, tired, tired of these hack sports talk guys like Jim Rome saying "nobody cares about soccer in the US" ... blah, blah, blah.
Just by them talking about it shows that it matters. It will never be the most popular sport here, but it doesn't have to be. My wife was dropping off someone at the airport and I was calling her with score updates ... she said I didn't have to, the area of the terminal watching the game on TV erupted when the US scored the second goal.
The most tickets to World Cup 2010 have been purchased in the US.
The NFL forces it's season ticket holders to pay for all of the preseason exhibition games because otherwise the stadiums would be mostly empty, but in the middle of July I've gone to exhibition games between Juventus v. Manchester United and Roma v. Real Madrid at sold out Giants Stadium.
80,000 fans, and these sports talk guys would have you believe it's made up entirely of immigrants. But it's far from the truth.
But nobody cares ...
Okay ... rant over.
I'm not sure if this deserves another topic, but I'm tired, tired, tired of these hack sports talk guys like Jim Rome saying "nobody cares about soccer in the US" ... blah, blah, blah.
Just by them talking about it shows that it matters. It will never be the most popular sport here, but it doesn't have to be. My wife was dropping off someone at the airport and I was calling her with score updates ... she said I didn't have to, the area of the terminal watching the game on TV erupted when the US scored the second goal.
The most tickets to World Cup 2010 have been purchased in the US.
The NFL forces it's season ticket holders to pay for all of the preseason exhibition games because otherwise the stadiums would be mostly empty, but in the middle of July I've gone to exhibition games between Juventus v. Manchester United and Roma v. Real Madrid at sold out Giants Stadium.
80,000 fans, and these sports talk guys would have you believe it's made up entirely of immigrants. But it's far from the truth.
But nobody cares ...
Okay ... rant over.
Great rant.
I heard Bob Ryan from the Boston Globe say something interesting about soccer recently. He's been around long enough to have some perspective.
He's starting to pay more attention to soccer because he's noticed the same things you're talking about. He recalls when the NBA drew far less than MLS is drawing today and when the gross national audience for NFL contests wasn't much larger than it is for Man U vs. Barcelona. His case is that when he was first breaking into the sports reporting business it would have been unthinkable that you wouldn't have covered pro sports that were gaining the kind of attention soccer is in this country.
Then the sports business exploded in the 1970s and the NASL missed the boat, so we got this fault sense that the current sporting landscape is the way things have always been and that Americans won't watch soccer. Neither is the case and, per Ryan, the sports wags who want to stay relevant in the future had better understand and appreciate soccer.
Fil3232
06-30-2009, 04:59 PM
As far as Rome is concerned, I find his soccer hate to be mostly shtick. I think he knows he strikes a chord with people and he's fine with it. I have noticed Colin Cowherd talking a lot more soccer, and it makes me chuckle that it so obviously coincides with ESPN's big push for TV and media rights of various soccer leagues, etc.
DTCromer
06-30-2009, 07:58 PM
I'm not sure if this deserves another topic, but I'm tired, tired, tired of these hack sports talk guys like Jim Rome saying "nobody cares about soccer in the US" ... blah, blah, blah.
Just by them talking about it shows that it matters. It will never be the most popular sport here, but it doesn't have to be. My wife was dropping off someone at the airport and I was calling her with score updates ... she said I didn't have to, the area of the terminal watching the game on TV erupted when the US scored the second goal.
The most tickets to World Cup 2010 have been purchased in the US.
The NFL forces it's season ticket holders to pay for all of the preseason exhibition games because otherwise the stadiums would be mostly empty, but in the middle of July I've gone to exhibition games between Juventus v. Manchester United and Roma v. Real Madrid at sold out Giants Stadium.
80,000 fans, and these sports talk guys would have you believe it's made up entirely of immigrants. But it's far from the truth.
But nobody cares ...
Okay ... rant over.
I'm not sure who's worse: People who complain how "gay" soccer is or people who complain about the people complaining about soccer. If you're a soccer fan, you should be used to it by now and it shouldn't even warrant a reaction from you.
As far as Rome is concerned, I find his soccer hate to be mostly shtick. I think he knows he strikes a chord with people and he's fine with it. I have noticed Colin Cowherd talking a lot more soccer, and it makes me chuckle that it so obviously coincides with ESPN's big push for TV and media rights of various soccer leagues, etc.
Correct. I love Rome and think he's funny. I can only take a week or two at a time with him because too much gets tiring. But I agree 100% that he knows his followers better than anyone and "hating" soccer is one of them.
improbus
06-30-2009, 09:50 PM
The most disappointing thing about the media's sometimes heavy hand with soccer is that soccer has a chance to be the one sport where the entire country gets on board with one team for one game in one moment in time. The Super Bowl only REALLY matters to the people in the two participants cities. The Olympics are too scattered and splintered. Soccer can be it.
NJ had it right. Soccer doesn't have to be #1, or even #2 or 3. But, the major international tournaments (World Cup, etc...) take place during the dogs days of summer when NOTHING else is going on, aside from some regular season baseball.
In the end, I am extremely jealous of other countries during the World Cup. When England, Brazil, Argentina, etc... play in a major WC game, the entire country shuts down and everyone has a giant party. I desperately want that. I want to run into the streets and have the same celebration in Marysville that they are having in LA, Topeka, and Montgomery after a huge US victory. That is what we are missing.
Betterread
06-30-2009, 09:55 PM
I'm not sure who's worse: People who complain how "gay" soccer is or people who complain about the people complaining about soccer. If you're a soccer fan, you should be used to it by now and it shouldn't even warrant a reaction from you.
I'm not sure who's worse: people who assign derogatory sexual slurs to subjects obviously (to most people, at least) not related to sex, or the intentional ignorance of people assigned to watch and mitigate such actually and potentially offensive examples of bigotry.
IslandRed
07-01-2009, 10:41 AM
The most disappointing thing about the media's sometimes heavy hand with soccer is that soccer has a chance to be the one sport where the entire country gets on board with one team for one game in one moment in time. The Super Bowl only REALLY matters to the people in the two participants cities. The Olympics are too scattered and splintered. Soccer can be it.
NJ had it right. Soccer doesn't have to be #1, or even #2 or 3. But, the major international tournaments (World Cup, etc...) take place during the dogs days of summer when NOTHING else is going on, aside from some regular season baseball.
In the end, I am extremely jealous of other countries during the World Cup. When England, Brazil, Argentina, etc... play in a major WC game, the entire country shuts down and everyone has a giant party. I desperately want that. I want to run into the streets and have the same celebration in Marysville that they are having in LA, Topeka, and Montgomery after a huge US victory. That is what we are missing.
Well, there's the rub... I don't think you can have that shut-down-the-country passion for the World Cup unless the sport is #1 (with no close second). Otherwise, it's just a grand flag-waving opportunity that everyone forgets as soon as it's over.
A lot of Americans are like me, I suspect. We don't dislike soccer and can be lured by the international spectacle of the major events (especially the World Cup), but ultimately we don't have an emotional stake in it. We want to win; other countries' fans need to win. And we roll our eyes at both Soccer Guy (the one lecturing us on how we Just Don't Get It) and Anti-Soccer Guy (with his often thinly-disguised anti-foreigner bias).
Yachtzee
07-01-2009, 11:40 AM
Well, there's the rub... I don't think you can have that shut-down-the-country passion for the World Cup unless the sport is #1 (with no close second). Otherwise, it's just a grand flag-waving opportunity that everyone forgets as soon as it's over.
A lot of Americans are like me, I suspect. We don't dislike soccer and can be lured by the international spectacle of the major events (especially the World Cup), but ultimately we don't have an emotional stake in it. We want to win; other countries' fans need to win. And we roll our eyes at both Soccer Guy (the one lecturing us on how we Just Don't Get It) and Anti-Soccer Guy (with his often thinly-disguised anti-foreigner bias).
I stopped listening to Jim Rome because it was clear that he only praises athletes who come on his show and slams everyone and everything he doesn't understand. Plus, the man can't even deal with it when people bring up his infamous incident with Jim Everett. He can dish it out, but he can't take it.
I don't think you can have an event that shuts down the country just because the US's sporting landscape is just too diverse. A huge number of people here love NFL and/or MLB, but you still have plenty of people who don't like football or find baseball to be "boring." Then there are the NBA and the NHL, both of which aren't too far removed from having attendance figures similar to what MLS has today. I think soccer fans should take the attitude of NASCAR fans, just continue to enjoy the sport and not let the Jim Romes of the world get to them. People will come to games and watch it on TV if they see people having fun and getting excited over the play.
Hoosier Red
07-01-2009, 01:00 PM
A good read from Grant Wahl (http://http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1157374/index.htm);
Landon Donovan couldn't help it. When his blistering counterattack goal gave the U.S. a 2--0 lead over Brazil in the final of the Confederations Cup on Sunday, he had visions of raising the first major international trophy in the history of U.S. men's soccer. The Americans had already upset world No. 1 Spain 2--0 in the semis, ending its 35-game unbeaten streak, and now they were on the verge of their second historic victory in five days. For Donovan, the U.S.'s bellwether player, the vibe on the field felt right. "It wasn't this moment of, Oh my God, we're beating Brazil," he said afterward. "It was like, O.K., we're playing well. Let's keep this going."
Alas, they could not. On a cold winter night in Johannesburg's Ellis Park, Brazil scored three times in the second half to win 3--2 and snatch the trophy from the Americans. It was one of the most crushing losses in the annals of U.S. soccer—gritty midfielder Clint Dempsey wept during the postgame ceremonies. "We've shown we can play with these teams," said goalkeeper Tim Howard, whose acrobatic saves kept the Brazilians from taking the lead until Lúcio's header off an 84th-minute corner kick. "But I keep going back to, If they're winning 2--0, we don't have a prayer to get back in the game. So how do we get to that level?"
The U.S. is on track to return to South Africa in 11 months for the 2010 World Cup, and its run in the Confederations Cup—the world's third-most important tournament for national teams after the World Cup and the European championship—helped to build confidence, accustom the players to South Africa and raise excitement back home. But to make an even bigger mark next summer, the Americans would be wise to heed three important lessons.
Discipline matters. Of the four red cards issued at the Confederations Cup, three went to U.S. players. The expulsions may have been harsh, but the Americans can't put themselves in that position at the World Cup, since they won't beat elite teams playing 10 on 11. In particular Michael Bradley—a rising star in the central midfield—must avoid the card suspensions that kept him from playing in decisive games at last year's Olympics and in Sunday's final; his ball-winning and possession were sorely missed during Brazil's second-half onslaught. "We're constantly working with all our players to play aggressively but also to be disciplined," said coach Bob Bradley, Michael's father. The Americans can't find that balance soon enough.
These new guys can play. Three U.S. players moved seamlessly into the starting lineup and deserve the chance to continue. Jay DeMerit was a tower of strength alongside Oguchi Onyewu in the central defense, as Carlos Bocanegra moved from the center to left back. Speedy forward Charlie Davies started the U.S.'s remarkable run to the tournament final with a hard-earned goal against Egypt and combined with Donovan on the latter's strike against Brazil. And right back Jonathan Spector mixed mostly solid defending with strong attacking forays, including goal-producing crosses to Dempsey against both Egypt and Brazil. When the U.S. takes the field in its next big game—a World Cup qualifier at archrival Mexico on Aug. 12—all three Confed Cup revelations should be in the lineup.
U.S. players need to get on the field with their clubs next season. Because of injuries or coaching decisions, three U.S. starters against Brazil played sparingly for their European teams last season: Spector, midfielder Benny Feilhaber and forward Jozy Altidore. "We can't have guys come in who haven't played, like myself and other guys," said Altidore, who scored against Spain but admitted it took him too long to adjust to the tournament's level of play. Altidore says if he can't get off the bench next season for Spain's Villarreal, which owns his contract, he hopes to go on loan to a team that will use him.
Of course, it was hard for the Americans to look ahead to 2010 after Sunday's game, the most painful of gut punches with a championship on the line. "We're at the point where we don't want respect," said Donovan afterward. "We want to win." But on a memorable night in the City of Gold, the U.S. appeared closer than ever to that elusive goal of an international title. When the Americans returned to their hotel, they saw giant billboards featuring Spain's Fernando Torres and Brazil's Kaká—two superstars who no longer seemed larger than life. "They're human," said DeMerit. "They may be on billboards and in Samsung commercials, but they're men just like me. And if I can make their lives difficult, who says we can't win?"
File that thought for 2010.
improbus
07-01-2009, 04:36 PM
Well, there's the rub... I don't think you can have that shut-down-the-country passion for the World Cup unless the sport is #1 (with no close second). Otherwise, it's just a grand flag-waving opportunity that everyone forgets as soon as it's over.
A lot of Americans are like me, I suspect. We don't dislike soccer and can be lured by the international spectacle of the major events (especially the World Cup), but ultimately we don't have an emotional stake in it. We want to win; other countries' fans need to win. And we roll our eyes at both Soccer Guy (the one lecturing us on how we Just Don't Get It) and Anti-Soccer Guy (with his often thinly-disguised anti-foreigner bias).
We do shut down (to a certain degree) for the NCAA tournament.
I am not angry that people don't "get" soccer. I try to point out their general hypocrisy, (game is too slow = baseball, not enough happens = football w/ huddles and excessive timeouts, diving and whining = Vlade Divac and Tim Duncan). But, US Soccer has all of the elements that I and most American seem to love.
1) They are a decided underdog on the world stage. We are not true underdogs in any of the sports that we play on an international stage that people actually watch (I don't count rugby). Imagine the beauty of humiliating France in the sport they love more than any other with our #4 (or lower) sport!
2) No commercials. In the era of DVR, we have discovered how much we generally hate commercials (w/ the exception of the Super Bowl, which highlights everything wrong w/ American society, but let's not get too far off topic). Meanwhile, soccer was "DVR" before DVR.
3) Patriotism. I bet that everyone on this board over the age of 45 will state that the greatest national sporting moment of their lifetime was USA 4, USSR 3. We got a tiny taste of what it is like for a national sporting event to capture EVERYONE, and that was ice hockey which is a distant 4th in overall interest in the US. I understand the unique situation of that game, but imagine a USA vs. Iran friendly right now.
And, none of those things have anything to do with the sport of soccer. You could insert Scrabble, Poker, Curling, whatever. But, there is no other sport that every other country in the world throws everything they have into, so soccer has the best opportunity to bring us all together.
reds1869
07-01-2009, 05:05 PM
We do shut down (to a certain degree) for the NCAA tournament.
I am not angry that people don't "get" soccer. I try to point out their general hypocrisy, (game is too slow = baseball, not enough happens = football w/ huddles and excessive timeouts, diving and whining = Vlade Divac and Tim Duncan). But, US Soccer has all of the elements that I and most American seem to love.
1) They are a decided underdog on the world stage. We are not true underdogs in any of the sports that we play on an international stage that people actually watch (I don't count rugby). Imagine the beauty of humiliating France in the sport they love more than any other with our #4 (or lower) sport!
2) No commercials. In the era of DVR, we have discovered how much we generally hate commercials (w/ the exception of the Super Bowl, which highlights everything wrong w/ American society, but let's not get too far off topic). Meanwhile, soccer was "DVR" before DVR.
3) Patriotism. I bet that everyone on this board over the age of 45 will state that the greatest national sporting moment of their lifetime was USA 4, USSR 3. We got a tiny taste of what it is like for a national sporting event to capture EVERYONE, and that was ice hockey which is a distant 4th in overall interest in the US. I understand the unique situation of that game, but imagine a USA vs. Iran friendly right now.
And, none of those things have anything to do with the sport of soccer. You could insert Scrabble, Poker, Curling, whatever. But, there is no other sport that every other country in the world throws everything they have into, so soccer has the best opportunity to bring us all together.
:thumbup:
We do shut down (to a certain degree) for the NCAA tournament.
I am not angry that people don't "get" soccer. I try to point out their general hypocrisy, (game is too slow = baseball, not enough happens = football w/ huddles and excessive timeouts, diving and whining = Vlade Divac and Tim Duncan). But, US Soccer has all of the elements that I and most American seem to love.
1) They are a decided underdog on the world stage. We are not true underdogs in any of the sports that we play on an international stage that people actually watch (I don't count rugby). Imagine the beauty of humiliating France in the sport they love more than any other with our #4 (or lower) sport!
2) No commercials. In the era of DVR, we have discovered how much we generally hate commercials (w/ the exception of the Super Bowl, which highlights everything wrong w/ American society, but let's not get too far off topic). Meanwhile, soccer was "DVR" before DVR.
3) Patriotism. I bet that everyone on this board over the age of 45 will state that the greatest national sporting moment of their lifetime was USA 4, USSR 3. We got a tiny taste of what it is like for a national sporting event to capture EVERYONE, and that was ice hockey which is a distant 4th in overall interest in the US. I understand the unique situation of that game, but imagine a USA vs. Iran friendly right now.
And, none of those things have anything to do with the sport of soccer. You could insert Scrabble, Poker, Curling, whatever. But, there is no other sport that every other country in the world throws everything they have into, so soccer has the best opportunity to bring us all together.
Superior post. FWIW, I'm still lukewarm on the USMNT because of the 1998 World Cup loss to Iran. Iran treated it like the biggest match in the nation's history, because it was, and the U.S. acted like it was just another game. My take then was, "Well, if this is just another game, maybe I ought not to care that much." I like the sport and I follow the USMNT, but I'm only now starting to allow myself to care again.
IslandRed
07-01-2009, 06:55 PM
We do shut down (to a certain degree) for the NCAA tournament.
I am not angry that people don't "get" soccer. I try to point out their general hypocrisy, (game is too slow = baseball, not enough happens = football w/ huddles and excessive timeouts, diving and whining = Vlade Divac and Tim Duncan). But, US Soccer has all of the elements that I and most American seem to love.
1) They are a decided underdog on the world stage. We are not true underdogs in any of the sports that we play on an international stage that people actually watch (I don't count rugby). Imagine the beauty of humiliating France in the sport they love more than any other with our #4 (or lower) sport!
2) No commercials. In the era of DVR, we have discovered how much we generally hate commercials (w/ the exception of the Super Bowl, which highlights everything wrong w/ American society, but let's not get too far off topic). Meanwhile, soccer was "DVR" before DVR.
3) Patriotism. I bet that everyone on this board over the age of 45 will state that the greatest national sporting moment of their lifetime was USA 4, USSR 3. We got a tiny taste of what it is like for a national sporting event to capture EVERYONE, and that was ice hockey which is a distant 4th in overall interest in the US. I understand the unique situation of that game, but imagine a USA vs. Iran friendly right now.
And, none of those things have anything to do with the sport of soccer. You could insert Scrabble, Poker, Curling, whatever. But, there is no other sport that every other country in the world throws everything they have into, so soccer has the best opportunity to bring us all together.
Some devil's-advocate thoughts:
* Americans love underdog stories. We do not respond well to BEING the underdog, not for very long. Play the plucky-underdog card very much and the message people get is, "we're second-rate and if we win it's a happy accident." However much that might lead us to rejoice in the occasional geopolitically significant happy accident, it's not a winning formula for creating true fans.
Your example of USA 4, USSR 3 makes my point as well as yours. It was the greatest flag-waving sports moment of my lifetime, I'm old enough to remember it, and everything you said about it is true. But it didn't move the needle long-term. Hockey was a niche sport then, it's a niche sport now, U.S. Hockey isn't and hasn't been appointment television, and the best players in the world still mostly come from other countries.
* No commercials is awesome. No disputing that.
* You pointed out similarities between soccer and other sports -- slow pace = baseball, not enough happens = football -- but there's a critical distinction you missed that I think explains why so many people here sample soccer but don't stick with it: number and immediacy of scoring chances. For Joe Short Attention Span Fan watching a baseball game or football game, every pitch or snap could be a right-now score. No, it probably won't be, but it could. The slow buildup of an attack that is so appealing to true soccer fans is lost on the newbie. All he knows is, he watched a game for ten minutes and nothing much happened, and once he clicks the remote he may not be back.
Don't construe that as meaning that I think soccer should change anything. It's a great game the way it is. It's just different, and absent a culture telling us we're supposed to like it, individuals will decide on their own if they do or don't.
improbus
07-01-2009, 07:21 PM
Some devil's-advocate thoughts:
* Americans love underdog stories. We do not respond well to BEING the underdog, not for very long. Play the plucky-underdog card very much and the message people get is, "we're second-rate and if we win it's a happy accident." However much that might lead us to rejoice in the occasional geopolitically significant happy accident, it's not a winning formula for creating true fans.
I agree. Hopefully we are not always underdogs.
Your example of USA 4, USSR 3 makes my point as well as yours. It was the greatest flag-waving sports moment of my lifetime, I'm old enough to remember it, and everything you said about it is true. But it didn't move the needle long-term. Hockey was a niche sport then, it's a niche sport now, U.S. Hockey isn't and hasn't been appointment television, and the best players in the world still mostly come from other countries.
I agree again, but I'm not worried too much about "growing" the sport. Counter to most peoples thoughts, I would LOVE for US Soccer to be a bandwagon thing. I just hope that the soccer nuts would lead the bandwagon and not act like snobby music fans and spend so much time denigrating the new fans that they forget to enjoy the ride.
* No commercials is awesome. No disputing that.
Beautiful
* You pointed out similarities between soccer and other sports -- slow pace = baseball, not enough happens = football -- but there's a critical distinction you missed that I think explains why so many people here sample soccer but don't stick with it: number and immediacy of scoring chances. For Joe Short Attention Span Fan watching a baseball game or football game, every pitch or snap could be a right-now score. No, it probably won't be, but it could. The slow buildup of an attack that is so appealing to true soccer fans is lost on the newbie. All he knows is, he watched a game for ten minutes and nothing much happened, and once he clicks the remote he may not be back.
I agree again, but only to a certain degree. Soccer may not have a ton of "instant strike" goals, but it is not devoid of them. Set pieces are riveting. Donovan's goals against Brazil happened in the blink of an eye. Plus, every diehard soccer fan has watched 85 minutes of scoreless soccer only to turn away for a moment when someone scores (ala Dennis Bergkamp vs. Argentina in the '98 WC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESl0-qZxlik
Don't construe that as meaning that I think soccer should change anything. It's a great game the way it is. It's just different, and absent a culture telling us we're supposed to like it, individuals will decide on their own if they do or don't.
IslandRed
07-01-2009, 10:29 PM
I agree again, but I'm not worried too much about "growing" the sport. Counter to most peoples thoughts, I would LOVE for US Soccer to be a bandwagon thing. I just hope that the soccer nuts would lead the bandwagon and not act like snobby music fans and spend so much time denigrating the new fans that they forget to enjoy the ride.
That's cool. I hope the U.S. gives them a reason to hop on next year.
Yachtzee
07-02-2009, 11:28 AM
* You pointed out similarities between soccer and other sports -- slow pace = baseball, not enough happens = football -- but there's a critical distinction you missed that I think explains why so many people here sample soccer but don't stick with it: number and immediacy of scoring chances. For Joe Short Attention Span Fan watching a baseball game or football game, every pitch or snap could be a right-now score. No, it probably won't be, but it could. The slow buildup of an attack that is so appealing to true soccer fans is lost on the newbie. All he knows is, he watched a game for ten minutes and nothing much happened, and once he clicks the remote he may not be back.
I think that's true only for certain styles of play. There are plenty of teams and leagues out there that play an open, attacking style of soccer where every time the ball gets close to the penalty area it's a scoring opportunity.
When Americans complain about soccer being too slow or not having enough goals, I think that comes from the experience from only watching the World Cup, where the magnitude of the games and the disparity in talent among teams leads to a tendency for some teams to bunker down to prevent goals against and then dive at the other end to get a chance to swipe a goal from a free kick or penalty. But again, that is merely one style of play.
improbus
07-02-2009, 11:36 AM
I think that's true only for certain styles of play. There are plenty of teams and leagues out there that play an open, attacking style of soccer where every time the ball gets close to the penalty area it's a scoring opportunity.
When Americans complain about soccer being too slow or not having enough goals, I think that comes from the experience from only watching the World Cup, where the magnitude of the games and the disparity in talent among teams leads to a tendency for some teams to bunker down to prevent goals against and then dive at the other end to get a chance to swipe a goal from a free kick or penalty. But again, that is merely one style of play.
-Agreed. I tried to watch some classic Woody Hayes football and found it to be the most unwatchable sporting event I had ever seen.
-You could say the same for 1968 baseball and mid-90's NBA Basketball.
IslandRed
07-02-2009, 04:51 PM
I think that's true only for certain styles of play. There are plenty of teams and leagues out there that play an open, attacking style of soccer where every time the ball gets close to the penalty area it's a scoring opportunity.
When Americans complain about soccer being too slow or not having enough goals, I think that comes from the experience from only watching the World Cup, where the magnitude of the games and the disparity in talent among teams leads to a tendency for some teams to bunker down to prevent goals against and then dive at the other end to get a chance to swipe a goal from a free kick or penalty. But again, that is merely one style of play.
True, but again, that's perspective that requires already being a soccer fan. For Americans who didn't grow up loving and following the game, the U.S. national team and the World Cup is the main entry point to the sport. If people don't love what they see and want more, they'll never see those other teams and leagues or learn to recognize other styles of play. Education follows entertainment.
bucksfan2
07-03-2009, 08:24 AM
True, but again, that's perspective that requires already being a soccer fan. For Americans who didn't grow up loving and following the game, the U.S. national team and the World Cup is the main entry point to the sport. If people don't love what they see and want more, they'll never see those other teams and leagues or learn to recognize other styles of play. Education follows entertainment.
I agree, but any big time soccer event is worth watching. Unfortunately for us the EPL and all the other European leagues play a difficult watching hours. I will go out of my way to watch a big USMNT game and will do my best to watch the Euro Cups and Champions League championship game. But what most of us average soccer fans are subject to are MLS games which just don't have the high level of play.
After the last world cup I tried to watch a MLS game. I turned it off within 10 minutes because the play just didn't stack up. One of the big time problems with US soccer they need to play over seas to get better competition. But if they do that the quality of soccer back home just is poor.
SunDeck
07-03-2009, 09:53 AM
It will take a long time for folks in the US to "appreciate" soccer because we don't live it yet like we do Basketball, Football and Baseball. Even those who are only casual fans of Baseball probably have a pretty good understanding of the game and that makes for a higher level of appreciation. Here's an example- take a look sometime at the "Wonder Goal" from the 1970 World Cup finals. It's on Youtube, with plenty of explanations about why it is one of the finest goals in the history of the game.
For the relatively ininitiated fan of the sport (like most of us americans), the highlight of the goal is the blistering shot by Alberto, taken at full stride. But that is the obvious part. For someone who knows the game well, it is the beauty and complexity of the play from when the ball was won deep in Brazil's territory to Pele's perfect pass to his overlapping defensive teammate. Alberto's run took advantage of a weakness in the otherwise superior, collapsing style of the Italians as he ranged unmarked up the sideline. It was a brilliant tactical assault that they were hoping to use, executed to perfection, like a set play where 10 guys touch the ball.
Incidently, one thing I don't like about watching soccer on TV is that they only show a small portion of the field at one time. Some of you may remember "Soccer Made in Germany" from the 70s and 80s. Probably due to the expense of having multiple cameras, there were a lot of wide shots from high in the stands, which allowed me to see big portions of the field. To this day, whenever I watch the game on TV it bugs me that I can't see what more players are doing. For those of you who watch a lot of soccer, is this the way they show the game on TV outside the US?
Yachtzee
07-03-2009, 11:30 AM
It will take a long time for folks in the US to "appreciate" soccer because we don't live it yet like we do Basketball, Football and Baseball. Even those who are only casual fans of Baseball probably have a pretty good understanding of the game and that makes for a higher level of appreciation. Here's an example- take a look sometime at the "Wonder Goal" from the 1970 World Cup finals. It's on Youtube, with plenty of explanations about why it is one of the finest goals in the history of the game.
For the relatively ininitiated fan of the sport (like most of us americans), the highlight of the goal is the blistering shot by Alberto, taken at full stride. But that is the obvious part. For someone who knows the game well, it is the beauty and complexity of the play from when the ball was won deep in Brazil's territory to Pele's perfect pass to his overlapping defensive teammate. Alberto's run took advantage of a weakness in the otherwise superior, collapsing style of the Italians as he ranged unmarked up the sideline. It was a brilliant tactical assault that they were hoping to use, executed to perfection, like a set play where 10 guys touch the ball.
Incidently, one thing I don't like about watching soccer on TV is that they only show a small portion of the field at one time. Some of you may remember "Soccer Made in Germany" from the 70s and 80s. Probably due to the expense of having multiple cameras, there were a lot of wide shots from high in the stands, which allowed me to see big portions of the field. To this day, whenever I watch the game on TV it bugs me that I can't see what more players are doing. For those of you who watch a lot of soccer, is this the way they show the game on TV outside the US?
While it may take a while for a large portion of Americans understand some of the more complex plays, I don't think people really need to be students of the game to enjoy it. There are plenty of people who enjoy the NFL without understanding some of the complexity of play on the offensive line. They see a great run or pass, but not necessarily the great blocks that made those plays possible. I played soccer for many years, but what really got me into watching the game was living in Europe and being surrounded by those who were excited about the game. It really gives you a feel for the momentum of the game so that you can truly sense whether a team has the upper hand or is desperately trying to score. I think the MLS is the key. Encourage the supporters groups and they will in turn help provide an exciting atmosphere that promotes attendance growth. I think some teams and their groups are getting it together. Look at this video of Columbus fans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxc4aGZFz6U&feature=related
With the rise of the Nordecke, games have really started to take on a festive atmosphere. Groups like them are starting to put together impressive coordinated displays and even USL teams' supporters groups have active enthusiastic groups.
By the way, maybe not quite the Wonder Goal of 1970, but here's a thing of beauty - Guillermo Barros Schelotto's chip pass to Frankie Hejduk in last year's MLS Cup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwBi3_CIGEY
Yachtzee
07-03-2009, 11:36 AM
Here's another example of supporters groups, this one from the Portland Timbers Army in their US Open Cup game against Seattle Sounders FC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AucOzX9qqRA
Here's a shot of Chicago's Section 8 supporters with a coordinated display using flares. (Important note: They actually pulled it off responsibly, without flares ending up in the hands of drunks or being thrown on the field)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l565dl-fDxw&feature=related
Awesome videos. I love the passion.
Hoosier Red
07-07-2009, 10:53 AM
M Bradley was suspended 4 games for yelling at the US-Spain referee. He'll be able to serve the suspension during the Gold Cup so he won't miss the US-Mexico Qualifier.
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/07/fifa-suspends-michael-bradley-but-he-wont-miss-mexico-qualifier.html
http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_15073300.html
The USA won their opener versus Grenada in the Gold Cup 4-0. Everyone's favorite Ghanaian expatriate notched two goals. I know it's only a minnow, but I am very, very encouraged by Freddy scoring two goals in this game. It shows that his talent is still there and that he is also still playing hard for the Nats when given a chance. It would be easy to become discouraged but this result shows me that he realizes that he's still just 19 and that he will be a part of the USMNT's plans long after THIS World Cup cycle is finished. He's got a long career ahead of him.
NJReds
07-07-2009, 11:46 AM
M Bradley was suspended 4 games for yelling at the US-Spain referee. He'll be able to serve the suspension during the Gold Cup so he won't miss the US-Mexico Qualifier.
http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/07/fifa-suspends-michael-bradley-but-he-wont-miss-mexico-qualifier.html
The referee should be suspended from international competition as well. That was a horrendous call.
NJReds
07-07-2009, 11:48 AM
http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_15073300.html
The USA won their opener versus Grenada in the Gold Cup 4-0. Everyone's favorite Ghanaian expatriate notched two goals. I know it's only a minnow, but I am very, very encouraged by Freddy scoring two goals in this game. It shows that his talent is still there and that he is also still playing hard for the Nats when given a chance. It would be easy to become discouraged but this result shows me that he realizes that he's still just 19 and that he will be a part of the USMNT's plans long after THIS World Cup cycle is finished. He's got a long career ahead of him.
Actually, Freddie had one goal
The others were scored by Holden, Davies and Robbie Rogers.
Actually, Freddie had one goal
The others were scored by Holden, Davies and Robbie Rogers.
Whoops, my bad.
I hope Freddy can have a very good Gold Cup and use that to his advantage when deciding where to play next season.
dsmith421
07-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Onyewu has signed for Milan. Hopefully he can get some games there or at least go on loan to a decent Serie A team.
Yeah I'm very excited for him. There's some discussion of this in the transfer thread as well.
Very nice accomplishment for him and it reflects well on the USMNT.
Actually, Freddie had one goal
The others were scored by Holden, Davies and Robbie Rogers.
Rogers and Kyle Beckerman were, for me, the top players in that game.
Clarence Goodson looked like the weakest link on the team.
NJReds
07-07-2009, 05:00 PM
Rogers and Kyle Beckerman were, for me, the top players in that game.
Clarence Goodson looked like the weakest on the team.
Rogers was impressive, but it's tough to tell against a team like Grenada.
Yachtzee
07-07-2009, 05:16 PM
He's too small for Italy. He'd get destroyed there. I wouldn't send a striker to play in Serie A until later in their career. Onyewu would be a good fit in Serie A, though.
He'd be a good fit in Spain. Lot's of free space to run around the midfield and not much defense to be found.
Somewhat prophetic on Onyewu. :beerme:
Rogers was impressive, but it's tough to tell against a team like Grenada.
True, it was a lopsided matchup. It would have helped if Grenada wasn't missing its two best players (Shalrie Joseph and Jason Roberts - both good enough to start for the USMNT).
That said, Rogers was fairly rampant. Up against an opponent like that you want your players to look as great as Rogers did.
NJReds
07-08-2009, 09:02 AM
True, it was a lopsided matchup. It would have helped if Grenada wasn't missing its two best players (Shalrie Joseph and Jason Roberts - both good enough to start for the USMNT).
That said, Rogers was fairly rampant. Up against an opponent like that you want your players to look as great as Rogers did.
Absolutely. The US did what they should do to a team like Grenada.
I want to see more of Rogers in this tournament.
texasdave
07-08-2009, 10:17 AM
If this was covered earlier in the thread I apologize.
The red card he received for the foul meant Bradley was automatically suspended for the Confederations Cup final. He's serving the next two games of the suspension during the ongoing Gold Cup — even though he's not on the roster because the team is using mostly younger players to get the veterans a break.
What is the point of suspending a player for games that he was not going to play in? Is this common in Soccer? Does it make sense in the least? Not much of a deterrent is it? Don't do "X" again or we will suspend you for games you had no intention of playing in anyway.
Hoosier Red
07-08-2009, 11:23 AM
Dave,
FIFA has no way of deciding what games a player can be suspended for. In the same way many players will drop an appeal if they have a nagging injury in baseball.
The US has these National Team games scheduled. If they weren't scheduled, he'd be suspended for the WC qualifiers.
Now, what I think is implied in the 4 game suspension is; this is a bigger number than it would normally be simply because we know you weren't going to play them anyway. We want to be on record supporting our referee but we don't want to penalize you too harshly because well the call sucked.
Haha, and boy oh boy did the call ever suck. Almost as bad as the red card that he gave us to even things up versus Italy in WC06.
NJReds
07-08-2009, 11:40 AM
Dave,
FIFA has no way of deciding what games a player can be suspended for. In the same way many players will drop an appeal if they have a nagging injury in baseball.
The US has these National Team games scheduled. If they weren't scheduled, he'd be suspended for the WC qualifiers.
Now, what I think is implied in the 4 game suspension is; this is a bigger number than it would normally be simply because we know you weren't going to play them anyway. We want to be on record supporting our referee but we don't want to penalize you too harshly because well the call sucked.
He got 4 games (instead of 1) because he confronted the referee after the match. Even though it was a terrible call, you can't do that.
The 1 game he missed, against Brazil, was a huge loss for the US team.
Hoosier Red
07-08-2009, 05:23 PM
NJ,
Was the 4 games the standard punishment? I thought I read somewhere that 4 games is harsher than what would otherwise be expected, but FIFA wanted it on the books knowing that he'd likely "serve" it without any real ramifications.
The 1 game suspension was bad enough.
25 minutes into the Honduras game -
Beckerman's the best player on the field right now. Rogers is starting to find some more room out left. Ching is covering a ton of ground for a forward.
On the downside, there's a defense hole in the field where Logan Pause is supposed to be. That guy's been seriously invisible so far. Cherundolo's doing nothing out on the right. Adu also has gotten his pocket picked a few times (though he had a nice back heel to spring Rogers early in the game).
No score, but it's a real entertaining game.
NJReds
07-08-2009, 10:21 PM
NJ,
Was the 4 games the standard punishment? I thought I read somewhere that 4 games is harsher than what would otherwise be expected, but FIFA wanted it on the books knowing that he'd likely "serve" it without any real ramifications.
The 1 game suspension was bad enough.
He got 4 games because he waited for the ref in the tunnel (or somewhere near the locker room) and had words with him. Sometimes FIFA will dole out a longer suspension if it's a real bad foul. Bradley would've gotten the standard 1 game suspension if he'd have kept his cool.
Here's the official ruling that explains it better than I can:
U.S. starting midfielder Michael Bradley has been suspended for four games by FIFA, soccer's governing body, for "committing acts of misconduct against opponents and match officials" in the U.S.' 2-0 upset of Spain on June 24, a FIFA spokesman has confirmed to SI.com.
However, Bradley will be available for the U.S.' important World Cup qualifier at Mexico on Aug. 12, since he can serve his suspension during the current CONCACAF Gold Cup (even though Bradley isn't on the roster).
Bradley was sent off in the 87th minute against Spain by Uruguayan referee Jorge Larrionda for a tackle on Spanish midfielder Xabi Alonso. The Spanish publication AS first reported that Bradley had allegedly confronted Larrionda in the tunnel after the game.
By the end of Wednesday's Gold Cup game against Honduras, Bradley -- the son of U.S. coach Bob Bradley -- will have already served his suspension by not being eligible to play in the Confederations Cup final against Brazil or in the U.S.' first two Gold Cup games.
There is one wrinkle in FIFA's ruling: The fourth game of Bradley's ban is suspended, and Bradley will serve a probationary period of six months.
"If the player commits another infringement during the probationary period in a FIFA competition," FIFA's statement reads, "the one match suspended suspension is automatically revoked and applied, in addition to the sanction pronounced for the new infringement."
FIFA did not release the details of Bradley's misconduct against match officials, including Larrionda, but it did say that he had breached articles 48 and 49 of the FIFA Disciplinary Code. Article 48 addresses misconduct against opponents (the original red-card offense), while article 49 references misconduct against match officials.
Article 49 requires a ban of "at least four matches for unsporting conduct toward a match official."
Other details in the AS report were not found to be true. The Spanish report (which cited no sources) claimed that Bradley had tried to "assault" or "attack" Larrionda, an allegation that was not supported by FIFA's investigation. If the "assault" charge had been true, FIFA would have been required to suspend Bradley for at least six months, according to article 49 of the FIFA Disciplinary Code.
Hoosier Red
07-08-2009, 10:43 PM
25 minutes into the Honduras game -
Beckerman's the best player on the field right now. Rogers is starting to find some more room out left. Ching is covering a ton of ground for a forward.
On the downside, there's a defense hole in the field where Logan Pause is supposed to be. That guy's been seriously invisible so far. Cherundolo's doing nothing out on the right. Adu also has gotten his pocket picked a few times (though he had a nice back heel to spring Rogers early in the game).
No score, but it's a real entertaining game.
Hey 1-0 USA, I just tuned in on Justin TV. By the way how is that legal, and how did the US score?
NJReds
07-08-2009, 10:48 PM
Hey 1-0 USA, I just tuned in on Justin TV. By the way how is that legal, and how did the US score?
Santino Quaranta scored the first goal.
Brian Ching scored #2.
Feilhaber and Davies come in as subs in the 2nd half and spur the team to a 2-0 win. Those two both looked REAL good.
NJReds
07-09-2009, 08:50 AM
Feilhaber and Davies come in as subs in the 2nd half and spur the team to a 2-0 win. Those two both looked REAL good.
They changed the game. Feilhaber in particular.
They changed the game. Feilhaber in particular.
The subs in that game provided an example of what a team game this is. Beckerman, Quaranta and Rogers were playing well and being undone by Pause (who was all kinds of awful). Once Feilhaber came in, the passing game synched up.
Also, Davies provided a forklift upgrade to Adu. He stretched the defense, creating some space for Ching to insert himself, and he made a dynamite pass in the sequence that led to the first goal.
It's amazing what can happen when you get 11 players pulling in the right direction. It's also encouraging to see Feilhaber and Davies dominate Gold Cup competition. The U.S. needs players pushing to that next level.
NJReds
07-09-2009, 10:13 AM
Adu is going to Benfica and won't play anymore in the Gold Cup.
He played well against Grenada, but not so much last night. He shows flashes of brilliance, but it was disappointing not to see a high level of energy or max effort last night. Davies was clearly superior.
Adu leaves US team to join Benfica
9 hours, 25 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP)—Freddy Adu will not play for the United States in the remaining games of the CONCACAF Gold Cup, U.S. coach Bob Bradley said after Wednesday’s 2-0 win against Honduras.
Adu scored a goal in the Americans’ opening 4-0 win against Grenada on Saturday at Seattle. He had one shot on goal Wednesday and was replaced in the 64th minute by Charlie Davies.
“This will be the last game Freddy will be here for the Gold Cup,” Bradley said after the game. “That was part of the arrangement from the start.”
Adu will participate in the preseason with Portuguese club Benfica, which he joined in 2007. Last season Benfica loaned him to Monaco of France’s Ligue 1, where he played just 169 minutes over 10 matches.
“It’s important to get preseason in with your team,” Adu said. “It gives you the best chance of being part of the team for the season.”
Bradley said there will be no specific replacement for Adu on the U.S. roster. Because the Americans reached the final of the Confederations Cup on June 28 and were playing in back-to-back tournaments, CONCACAF allowed the United States to expand its roster from 23 to 30.
Hoosier Red
07-09-2009, 10:29 AM
I was about to post that. He better get a lot of run this European season or he may not have a spot on next year's roster. To say that his USMNT performance to date has been inconsistent would be an understatement.
Feilhaber's also heading back to his club.
When the elimination games start, it will be interesting to see if Holden gets moved into the middle in favor of Pause with Quaranta wide right.
NJReds
07-09-2009, 04:18 PM
Feilhaber's also heading back to his club.
When the elimination games start, it will be interesting to see if Holden gets moved into the middle in favor of Pause with Quaranta wide right.
Nice story about Quaranta overcoming his demons to make it back to the national team in the NY Times Soccer Blog (http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/quarantas-goal-a-boost-for-us-and-the-player/#more-7325).
Also, the debate about soccer's popularity and MLS can go on. But one thing it's provided the US is depth like it's never had before. This "B" team is better than the "A" teams pre-MLS.
Also, the debate about soccer's popularity and MLS can go on. But one thing it's provided the US is depth like it's never had before. This "B" team is better than the "A" teams pre-MLS.
Excellent point. The U.S. has some pretty compelling depth at CB and dmid. Next step - strikers and wingers.
There is an incredibly fascinating book excerpt from Grant Wahl in the latest SI about Beckham's stint in America, focusing particularly on his relationship with Landon Donovan. Very intriguing read, I encourage you to seek it out.
Excellent point. The U.S. has some pretty compelling depth at CB and dmid. Next step - strikers and wingers.
Even at the striker and on the wing, however, we're so much further along than we used to be in terms of depth it's not funny.
MLS has, after you weigh everything out, done more for our National Team than anyone/anything. You simply can't proceed beyond a certain point on the international stage if you don't have a hungry domestic league pushing things along professionally for a large percentage of Americans who would be unable to pursue a professional career without a domestic league to turn to (at least at the outset of their careers).
What I want to see MLS work towards next is having each club with their own autonomous youth academy.
reds1869
07-09-2009, 04:51 PM
The problem with MLS squads having their own academies is the single entity structure of the league itself. I would love to see it happen but until SE goes away entirely it won't happen.
Commissioner Garber has stated that having multiple clubs owned by a single owner was a necessity in the first 10 years of MLS, but now that the league appears to be on the brink of overall profitability and has significant expansion plans, he wants each club to have a distinct owner. In order to help bring this about, the league is now giving more incentive to be an individual club owner, with all owners now having the rights to a certain number of players they develop through their club's academy system each year, sharing the profits of Soccer United Marketing, and being able to sell individual club jersey sponsorships.
At one time AEG owned six teams in MLS, and have since sold the Colorado Rapids, the MetroStars, D.C. United and the Chicago Fire to new owners. AEG's remaining teams are the Los Angeles Galaxy and the Houston Dynamo.[5] The other major owner-investor in MLS has been Hunt Sports, which owns the Columbus Crew and FC Dallas, having sold the Kansas City Wizards in to a local ownership group in 2006. The league now has 16 owners for their 18 clubs (including the 2010 Philadelphia club and the 2011 Vancouver and Portland teams).
From the MLS wiki.
What I want to see MLS work towards next is having each club with their own autonomous youth academy.
That would be low on my priority list. I'd rather see MLS concentrate on having its teams dominate in the CCL. That's where the league needs to go in terms of quality. Private academies can always train up the kids.
reds1869
07-09-2009, 05:44 PM
From the MLS wiki.
In the end MLS still has ultimate control, though. It is single entity in different clothing.
Yachtzee
07-09-2009, 10:25 PM
In the end MLS still has ultimate control, though. It is single entity in different clothing.
I've always been under the impression that the "single entity" features were instituted as a control to avoid some of the salary pitfalls of the NASL, but are not considered permanent features. I thing the league will move toward greater autonomy for teams in salary matters as more teams move toward profitability.
NJReds
07-10-2009, 08:56 AM
I've always been under the impression that the "single entity" features were instituted as a control to avoid some of the salary pitfalls of the NASL, but are not considered permanent features. I thing the league will move toward greater autonomy for teams in salary matters as more teams move toward profitability.
I think they've done a pretty good job. And the franchises in towns like Columbus and Seattle are actually very well supported. It's great to see.
reds1869
07-10-2009, 09:20 AM
I think they've done a pretty good job. And the franchises in towns like Columbus and Seattle are actually very well supported. It's great to see.
Seattle has been nothing short of amazing. I always loved going to Crew games when I lived up there. My wife hates soccer but actually enjoyed going to the Crew matches with me.
Even at the striker and on the wing, however, we're so much further along than we used to be in terms of depth it's not funny.
I actually think the U.S. has taken a step backward at those positions. A little over a decade ago the U.S. had a choice of Brian McBride, Earnie Stewart, Eric Wynalda and Roy Wegerle to chose from up front. All of those guys scored in top Euro leagues. Joe-Max Moore was a prolific MLS striker playing behind those guys.
On the wings and in advanced MF positions you had players like Harkes, Ramos, Reyna, Cobi, Perez and Preki.
I don't see that kind of depth or accomplishment in the current crop of attacking players.
And then after those 3-4 names what do you have? Nada. That's where the USSF has taken the massive step forward in terms of depth. As others have mentioned, just look at this gold cup roster. It's not really fair to talk about accomplishment when the majority of these young talented guys have yet to write their stories.
NJReds
07-10-2009, 01:20 PM
Mexico always, always, always seems to be caught up in some sort of unsportsmanlike nonsense. And while FIFA refs are busy red carding Americans for hard fouls that at worst would be a yellow card, "El Tri" seems to get away with brutal, ugly and unsportsmanlike behavior.
Nothing would make me happier than the US thrashing them in Mexico City on August 12. That game, by the way, was moved from a night game to 3 p.m. by the Mexicans. I guess so it's in the heat of midday. There is no team in sports that I despise more.
Ugly ending mars Panama-Mexico game
By CHRIS DUNCAN, AP Sports Writer
HOUSTON (AP)—Panama’s soccer team huddled on the field after playing Mexico to a 1-1 tie on Thursday night, waiting for the incited fans to leave Reliant Stadium.
The Gold Cup match ended in chaos after a confrontation between Mexican coach Javier Aguirre and a Panamanian player triggered fights between fans in the stands.
Tempers flared throughout the match and boiled over in the 80th minute.
Panama’s Ricardo Phillips dribbled out of bounds in front of the Mexico bench and when the linesman stopped play, Phillips shoved Aguirre.
Panama coach Gary Stempel said Aguirre hit Phillips first, trying to trip him as he ran by. Aguirre said he was just trying to stop the ball and accidentally made contact with Phillips.
“It was an imprudent act on my part,” Aguirre said. “I sincerely regret it. It was a product of passion. The Panamanian team deserves an apology as well.”
Players converged in the area and several got into shoving matches. Referee Joel Aguilar ejected Aguirre and whipped out a red card to give to Phillips as fans littered the field with cups of beer and other objects.
Phillips was escorted off the field by a swarm of police—and pelted with beer cups as he ran into a tunnel—and after about 15 wild minutes, play resumed.
A fight then broke out between two fans in the front row across the field from the benches and Houston police officers moved in to separate them. Police handcuffed at least two fans in the area.
“It was a disgrace,” Stempel said. “I don’t have the words.”
Miguel Sabah and Blas Perez scored the goals in the first half.
Even Sabah conceded that his coach made a bad mistake.
“Obviously, he’s human like the rest of us,” Sabah said. “As a coach, with his experience, it doesn’t make much sense. But he’s human, and he has our support and we are trying hard to win.”
Perez was injured on the field in the 90th minute and medical staff brought out a stretcher. As Perez was carried off the field, Mexican fans unleashed another barrage of cups and beer bottles and Perez fell off the stretcher.
Perez didn’t seem as upset as his coach was about how the game ended.
“That’s soccer, it’s normal,” Perez said. “Those things happen.”
The game ended about five minutes later and the Panamanian team lingered on the field to let stadium officials drive off the fans.
“The game had to end,” Stempel said. “The security and physical integrity of the players was not guaranteed. No coach wants to be a part of this debacle. Mexico has to respond for their actions, not me.”
Horace Reed, the head CONCACAF official at the game, refused to comment.
Guadeloupe beat Nicaragua 2-0 in the opener of the doubleheader at Reliant Stadium. The event drew an announced crowd of 47,713, nearly all of them donned in green and cheering for Mexico.
Giovani Dos Santos took a loose ball and outran a Panama defender to set up Mexico’s first goal in the 10th minute. Dos Santos dribbled into the penalty area, then passed to Sabah, who easily beat goalkeeper Jaime Penedo with a right-footed shot.
The players were mouthing off at each other from the start and Panama’s Nelson Barahona earned a yellow card in the 39th minute when he collided with Sabah.
Barahona got the worst of the hit, writhing in pain as players from both teams gathered around him and jawed at one another. The referee and both linesmen rushed out to separate the teams and play continued.
In extra time just before the half, Dos Santos got tangled with Panama’s Armando Gun, who was lying on the ground. The teams huddled again and exchanged words before Gun and Mexico’s Miguel Luis Noriega were ejected.
Mexico kept pressure on Panama’s defense for most of the second half before the ugly ending.
Mexican star forward Carlos Vela, also a member of English club Arsenal, missed the game with a lower right leg injury suffered in El Tri’s 2-0 win over Nicaragua on Sunday.
The tie was a disappointing outcome for Mexico, which has won four Gold Cups, the last in 2003. El Tri is facing mounting pressure at home to return to international prominence after some embarrassing recent results. Mexico lost to the United States in the 2007 Gold Cup final and its under-23 team failed to qualify for the Beijing Olympics last summer.
Mexico has a key World Cup qualifier Aug. 12 against the United States in Mexico City.
Mexicans are so full of crap. Their ready-made excuse for whenever they make asses out of themselves is to blame it on "passion." That was the same crap Sanchez blamed his bad behavior on when he tried to cripple Eddie Johnson.
I hate them. I love beating them and I love it when bad things happen to Mexican soccer. SCREW THEM.
And then after those 3-4 names what do you have? Nada. That's where the USSF has taken the massive step forward in terms of depth. As others have mentioned, just look at this gold cup roster. It's not really fair to talk about accomplishment when the majority of these young talented guys have yet to write their stories.
I just listed 11 guys who were all playing at around the same time for five attacking positions. And there were other guys kicking around behind them. The USMNT had attacking players in the '90s, many of whom made their mark overseas. If you could take what that group had up front and blend it with the current group's defensive bulwark (and toss in Dempsey and Donovan), you'd have something pretty tasty.
We're all rightfully enthusiastic about Charlie Davies, but he's trying to rise to the level of an Earnie Stewart. I like what Robbie Rogers is doing so far in the Gold Cup, but he's no Preki ... at least not yet.
The U.S. certainly is coming along and it has laudable depth in some places, but the forwards and wings are works in progress.
IMO, this generation of U.S. players is a little overcoached, which has robbed it of some natural attacking instincts. In the previous generation, the only way you got ahead was if you had natural attacking instincts.
Seems to me the Mexican team is freaking out. The players know they aren't that good and are terrified of becoming a national disgrace.
If the U.S. gets the win at Azteca, it could be a long way down for Mexican football.
Hoosier Red
07-10-2009, 01:57 PM
When was the last time Mexico didn't qualify for the WC?
I just listed 11 guys who were all playing at around the same time for five attacking positions. And there were other guys kicking around behind them. The USMNT had attacking players in the '90s, many of whom made their mark overseas. If you could take what that group had up front and blend it with the current group's defensive bulwark (and toss in Dempsey and Donovan), you'd have something pretty tasty.
We're all rightfully enthusiastic about Charlie Davies, but he's trying to rise to the level of an Earnie Stewart. I like what Robbie Rogers is doing so far in the Gold Cup, but he's no Preki ... at least not yet.
The U.S. certainly is coming along and it has laudable depth in some places, but the forwards and wings are works in progress.
IMO, this generation of U.S. players is a little overcoached, which has robbed it of some natural attacking instincts. In the previous generation, the only way you got ahead was if you had natural attacking instincts.
I'm so with you on the overcoaching. I think that's one thing that will stand as a possible roadblock to producing the kind of world-class, inventive players that we all crave. I hate the way American coaches stamp out creativity and natural attacking instincts by attempting to force everyone into the same box of what an "American soccer player" is supposed to be. You don't get Messi's that way. (ultimate example)
Mexico failed to qualify for the WC in 1982.
NJReds
07-10-2009, 02:12 PM
We're all rightfully enthusiastic about Charlie Davies, but he's trying to rise to the level of an Earnie Stewart. I like what Robbie Rogers is doing so far in the Gold Cup, but he's no Preki ... at least not yet.
Preki played 28 games with the national squad and scored 4 goals. He was basically Taylor Twellman.
NJReds
07-10-2009, 02:13 PM
I'm so with you on the overcoaching. I think that's one thing that will stand as a possible roadblock to producing the kind of world-class, inventive players that we all crave. I hate the way American coaches stamp out creativity and natural attacking instincts by attempting to force everyone into the same box of what an "American soccer player" is supposed to be. You don't get Messi's that way. (ultimate example)
You wonder if Guiseppi Rossi would've developed into a world class player if he had stayed in the US instead of going to Parma's youth team when he was 12.
Yep. And I know he's not there yet, but would Adu be anywhere close to the player that he is (capable of such moments of clarity and brilliance) if he had been shuttled through the American soccer grinder.
It makes outliers like Dempsey and Feilhaber appear more important than they should necessarily be simply because our country produces so few players with those kinds of abilities.
Preki played 28 games with the national squad and scored 4 goals. He was basically Taylor Twellman.
He was a winger, not a striker. And he might be the best ball-handler ever to don the national kit. His game involved a lot more than just trying to finish in front of the net.
Preki could play, and he was a relatively old man by the time he came to the attention of most U.S. fans (he didn't become a citizen until he was 33). He was a big part of the first legitimate U.S. World Cup qualifying team since 1950. Mexico got disqualified for the 1990 tournament (otherwise the U.S. wouldn't have made it) and the U.S. got an automatic bid in 1994 for being the host.
I was just looking at the Mexican Gold Cup roster. Did they call in a pretty much full A side?
I was just looking at the Mexican Gold Cup roster. Did they call in a pretty much full A side?
No, they've got a lot of A side players not playing - Perez, Marquez, Osorio, Salcido, Pardo, Arce and Guardado. They did bring most of their strikers, but that's only because they're holding open auditions for anyone who can score.
NJReds
07-10-2009, 03:08 PM
He was a winger, not a striker. And he might be the best ball-handler ever to don the national kit. His game involved a lot more than just trying to finish in front of the net.
Preki could play, and he was a relatively old man by the time he came to the attention of most U.S. fans (he didn't become a citizen until he was 33). He was a big part of the first legitimate U.S. World Cup qualifying team since 1950. Mexico got disqualified for the 1990 tournament (otherwise the U.S. wouldn't have made it) and the U.S. got an automatic bid in 1994 for being the host.
He was good, but didn't have a huge impact with the National Team was my point. In fact, I thought he should've played more than he did.
The one thing that's always hurt the US is a lack of quality coaching.
He was good, but didn't have a huge impact with the National Team was my point. In fact, I thought he should've played more than he did.
He walked onto the team and had a starting gig for the two years he played at the national level, getting the USMNT into the World Cup and beating Brazil at the Gold Cup. That's some pretty decent impact.
Without him, the U.S. might have followed up 1994 by sagging back to playing El Salvador level football.
NJReds
07-24-2009, 01:14 PM
The US "B" side played pretty well last night against Honduras from what I saw. Holden has really taken advantage of his playing time, and I expect to see him in South Africa.
The US-Mexico match in the final should be interesting, to say the least. Also interesting is that they were booked on the same flight to NY after the semifinal matches.
US has had a nice Gold Cup. Hopefully we can finish it off by kicking the ass of the Mexicans one more time.
And let me say that this is a damn good B team.
I want to see what Holden can do playing with Lando. Those two could potentially link up quite well.
What a BS penalty. lol. Just complete crap.
After that they just fell apart and totally losT their defensive shape, typical of a young, inexperienced team.
reds1869
07-26-2009, 05:34 PM
Oh well, second place in two international tournaments is nothing to be ashamed of. As you said, we totally folded after the BS penalty. US Soccer is turning a corner, and I have to say MLS deserves much of the credit.
Caveat Emperor
07-26-2009, 06:54 PM
Oh well, second place in two international tournaments is nothing to be ashamed of. As you said, we totally folded after the BS penalty. US Soccer is turning a corner, and I have to say MLS deserves much of the credit.
There was a time where the idea of an American "B-Team" was absurd to even consider. Shows you really just how far American soccer has come when they can not only send the irregulars to play, but put in a damn good showing as well.
Some people feel that the team we sent to the Gold Cup is actually probably more of a C team than a B team which is even more impressive.
I still loathe Bob Bradley and hate him as USMNT manager.
DTCromer
07-26-2009, 10:14 PM
Oh well, a 5-0 loss.
But at least we only lost to Brazil 3-2!
Quit justifying how far this team has come and bring some results. This tourney wasn't exactly THAT meaningful, but to get blasted 5-0 to your arch rival is defenseless.
This team still has some major, major problems before we can talk about being any type of contender. Beating Spain, embarrassing ourselves vs Brazil, and this apocraphyl of a loss today and people are still defending mediocrity.
Betterread
07-26-2009, 10:39 PM
This was a horrible loss. There is no defense for the squad that Bradley chose. There is no defense for the penality call leading to the first goal. There is no defense for the gutless effort shown by the US squad today. You simply can't lose to your geographical rival that badly. If Bradley is not sacked within 2 weeks, the US Mens's national team has no ambition and no integrity.
Caveat Emperor
07-26-2009, 11:39 PM
This was a horrible loss. There is no defense for the squad that Bradley chose. There is no defense for the penality call leading to the first goal. There is no defense for the gutless effort shown by the US squad today. You simply can't lose to your geographical rival that badly. If Bradley is not sacked within 2 weeks, the US Mens's national team has no ambition and no integrity.
It's hard for me to get too fired up either way when the team playing in the gold cup was missing virtually every star player from the USMNT that will represent in South Africa next year.
Oh well, a 5-0 loss.
But at least we only lost to Brazil 3-2!
Quit justifying how far this team has come and bring some results. This tourney wasn't exactly THAT meaningful, but to get blasted 5-0 to your arch rival is defenseless.
This team still has some major, major problems before we can talk about being any type of contender. Beating Spain, embarrassing ourselves vs Brazil, and this apocraphyl of a loss today and people are still defending mediocrity.
Who is justifying the loss? I explained what happened to them as best as I could... this is the sort of result that you may be faced with if you don't bring a single one of your A team members to a tournament. Young teams fall apart sometimes.
Don't try to compare this loss today to the one versus Brazil a month ago to try and make some sort of point about "accepting mediocrity." The only thing those two results have in common is that the sport being played is soccer. That team that lost to Brazil absolutely did not embarrass themselves AT ALL no matter how many times you type that they did.
reds1869
07-27-2009, 08:20 AM
This was a horrible loss. There is no defense for the squad that Bradley chose. There is no defense for the penality call leading to the first goal. There is no defense for the gutless effort shown by the US squad today. You simply can't lose to your geographical rival that badly. If Bradley is not sacked within 2 weeks, the US Mens's national team has no ambition and no integrity.
Yes, because sacking a man who is putting together the best run of results the US has seen in years makes a whole lot of sense. :rolleyes: I'm no Bradley fan, but his results are good even if his methods are not. Was this loss terrible? Yes. But you must remember that we have been in the final of two consecutive international tournaments, whatever their prestige.
If Bradley's smart, he's going to make the A team watch the 2nd half of that game every day until the WC qualifier at Azteca. This loss may be the perfect motivator.
NJReds
07-27-2009, 12:06 PM
If Bradley's smart, he's going to make the A team watch the 2nd half of that game every day until the WC qualifier at Azteca. This loss may be the perfect motivator.
Maybe Bradley could spend some time focusing on tactics. Because the US had no plan of attack or defense on Sunday. I don't care it it was the A, B, C or Z team. That was an embarassment and the whole organization should be ashamed. Nothing less than a win in Azteca will wipe away the memory of this loss.
Maybe Bradley could spend some time focusing on tactics. Because the US had no plan of attack or defense on Sunday. I don't care it it was the A, B, C or Z team. That was an embarassment and the whole organization should be ashamed. Nothing less than a win in Azteca will wipe away the memory of this loss.
And nothing less than a win in Azteca is what the USMNT should be after. Confed Cup and Gold Cup are fine and dandy, but the Azteca game is the biggest match the U.S. will play this year. It's their chance to put Mexico to the sword.
If you made me choose between winning the Confed Cup and beating Mexico in a WCQ in Azteca I know which one I would choose and it doesn't involve the Samba Kings! :D
Yachtzee
07-27-2009, 01:43 PM
And nothing less than a win in Azteca is what the USMNT should be after. Confed Cup and Gold Cup are fine and dandy, but the Azteca game is the biggest match the U.S. will play this year. It's their chance to put Mexico to the sword.
I'm sure a lot of people will feel better with this loss if the US can turn around and get a win at Azteca. Imagine if the Mexicans fail to qualify for next year's World Cup. That would certainly make this 5-0 victory ring hollow.
That being said, I think it would have been nice if the US had at least brought some of their starters for this game, just to keep them sharp and accustomed to the play on the national team.
Hoosier Red
07-27-2009, 01:56 PM
That's tough to do though Yachtzee, any top level players on an MLS roster have already missed almost a month, any players in Europe would have to fly back and than over again and still be fit for their club teams.
The team did poorly no doubt once the first goal was scored, but it had responded so well to all types of adversity throughout the tournament, I have no problem letting this team continue to develop.
DTCromer
07-27-2009, 06:57 PM
Don't try to compare this loss today to the one versus Brazil a month ago to try and make some sort of point about "accepting mediocrity." The only thing those two results have in common is that the sport being played is soccer. That team that lost to Brazil absolutely did not embarrass themselves AT ALL no matter how many times you type that they did.
Losing to a world power like Brazil after being up 2-0 is embarrassing. Moral victories are for teams who accept losing. You're from Lexington,. . . you should know all about not accepting a Sweet 16 loss.
Losing to a world power like Brazil after being up 2-0 is embarrassing. Moral victories are for teams who accept losing. You're from Lexington,. . . you should know all about not accepting a Sweet 16 loss.
You're the only person I've come across who has that opinion.
Kentucky basketball is on a slightly different level than the USMNT in their respective sports.
Yachtzee
07-28-2009, 04:47 PM
You're the only person I've come across who has that opinion.
Kentucky basketball is on a slightly different level than the USMNT in their respective sports.
CONCACAF - the MAC of World Football Confederations.
improbus
07-28-2009, 05:31 PM
CONCACAF - the MAC of World Football Confederations.
USA = Gonzaga: Both make the occasional run in a tournament and get ranked highly because of it. But, we all know that they aren't equals with the great squads.
This is why Jermaine Jones is a badass. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMNjqyt9YVM
Yachtzee
08-02-2009, 10:34 PM
I've been hearing that the US v. Mexico game won't be on either ESPN networks or FSC, but rather Telemundo and one of its subsidiary channels. If true, that is sad that such a big game against a major rival isn't being shown on a US network that English-speaking fans would have.
NJReds
08-03-2009, 08:43 AM
I've been hearing that the US v. Mexico game won't be on either ESPN networks or FSC, but rather Telemundo and one of its subsidiary channels. If true, that is sad that such a big game against a major rival isn't being shown on a US network that English-speaking fans would have.
Here's the reason (Washington Post (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/2009/07/usa-mexico_tv_update.html)):
USA-Mexico TV Update
The Insider told you exclusively this week that Telemundo held both the English and Spanish rights to the USA-Mexico World Cup qualifier Aug. 12 at Azteca Stadium and that the network would show the match on its main outlet as well as mun2, a cable station geared toward young Latinos and one that frequently utilizes English audio.
Here are some additional details today from Hispanic Market Weekly.
The USSF has issued a response to the situation:
"With every game, our main objective is to provide the television broadcast to the widest audience possible in both English and Spanish," USSF spokesman Neil Buethe said. "For the match against Mexico, neither us nor our broadcast partners [ESPN/ABC, Fox Soccer Channel, Univision] own the rights to televise the match. However, it will be on the air through other networks....If things change, we welcome the opportunity to provide the game through one of our partners."
The USSF knows of no plans by Telemundo -- which is owned by NBC Universal -- to show the game on an alternate outlet.
Insider's Take: ESPN tried to get the game and couldn't meet the asking price. The USSF has no control over TV rights for games played outside the States. Telemundo, in a pure business decision, decided to use the game as a way to introduce mun2 to a broader audience -- and what better way than with a USA-Mexico qualifier?
NJReds
08-03-2009, 09:25 AM
How freaking lame.
ESPN probably would've bought the rights had Mexico left it as a night game. But once Mexico shifted it to a day game, I don't think ESPN was going to pay the same price to air it during the afternoon on a Wednesday.
Yachtzee
08-03-2009, 11:42 AM
Seems like another FIFA boondoggle to me. Why the USSF shouldn't have control over the rights to broadcast the game in the United States is beyond me. That would be like saying that the Cincinnati Reds don't have the rights to broadcast Reds road games.
Caveat Emperor
08-03-2009, 01:18 PM
The anger should be properly directed at NBC, as the parent company. They are the ones who need to step up to the plate and provide America with an avenue to see the match broadcast in the national language.
They've got a dozen cable outlets -- they can't blow out daytime programming on USA Network or SciFi Channel to show an important international sporting event? Please.
Yachtzee
08-03-2009, 08:48 PM
The anger should be properly directed at NBC, as the parent company. They are the ones who need to step up to the plate and provide America with an avenue to see the match broadcast in the national language.
They've got a dozen cable outlets -- they can't blow out daytime programming on USA Network or SciFi Channel to show an important international sporting event? Please.
Yeah, it seems NBC/Universal has abdicated all decision making in this matter to Telemundo. Still, it seems incredibly short-sighted to give all the control for selling the TV rights to the home team without allowing the away team any way of selling rights for broadcast in their country unless they strike a deal with the home team's rights holder. I find it particularly troubling considering how corrupt many of the federations in CONCACAF are. But then again, CONCACAF is run by some of the most corrupt personalities in international sports, so it shouldn't be a surprise.
I wonder if this kind of stuff goes on when teams play in the US. Does ESPN tell the Mexicans or Costa Ricans, "Hey, we're only going to show the game on our English language channels, but only if you have ESPNU or a tv that is compatible for secondary audio, can you watch it in your own language?"
NJReds
08-05-2009, 05:16 PM
Altidore to the EPL. Good move for him.
US striker Altidore says he is joining Hull3 hours, 25 minutes ago
LONDON (AP)—Jozy Altidore says he has joined Premier League club Hull subject to a work permit being granted.
The 19-year-old U.S. striker announced on Twitter that he will be introduced at a news conference Thursday.
He wrote Wednesday: “First match is against Chelsea subject to a work permit … thanks for the support and love keep it coming.”
Altidore joined Villarreal from the New York Red Bulls in June 2008. After making only two starts and four substitute appearances during the first half of the season, he was loaned to Xerez in the second division on Jan. 30.
Caveat Emperor
08-05-2009, 05:19 PM
Altidore to the EPL. Good move for him.
If he plays...
Hoosier Red
08-05-2009, 05:20 PM
So long as he gets to play. I'm pretty happy with Davies and Altidore up top.
Hoosier Red
08-07-2009, 09:11 AM
Rafael Marquez is going to miss the qualifier vs. the United States.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/soccer/08/05/barca.marquez.ap/index.html
Rafael Marquez is going to miss the qualifier vs. the United States.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/soccer/08/05/barca.marquez.ap/index.html
Well someone on the Mexican team is going to have to step up to earn a completely idiotic red card if Marquez isn't there to do it.
I'm starting to get really pumped about this game!!!
I hope it's not anti-climatic (in a bad way for us anyway, haha).
improbus
08-08-2009, 08:13 AM
Saw some great news on the ticker today. USMNT will not bring Adu, Klestjan, and Beasley to the game. Maybe Bradley has been reading our threads:D
I believe Adu and Beasley are still hunting for teams at this moment. Don't be surprised to see both of them back in MLS next season.
Who's getting excited?
m2, what kind of impact do you think Jermaine Jones will have on the USMNT? I think it could be massive. He will definitely be our best field player, do you agree? His professional resume is quite impressive. Captain at Schalke. You don't become captain of a team in the Bundesliga overnight.
Hoosier Red
08-11-2009, 01:33 PM
I can't wait for tomorrow. I'm going into work early so I can leave at 4 and get Claddagh to watch the game.
Of course everytime I'm this excited they get crushed so maybe I should tamp it down a bit.
Hoosier Red
08-11-2009, 01:36 PM
Who's getting excited?
m2, what kind of impact do you think Jermaine Jones will have on the USMNT? I think it could be massive. He will definitely be our best field player, do you agree? His professional resume is quite impressive. Captain at Schalke. You don't become captain of a team in the Bundesliga overnight.
I don't know much about Jones, but I'd think the central midfield's going to be pretty fantastic for the forseeable future.
Altidore-Davies
Donovan-Jones-Bradley-Dempsey
Bocanegra-Demerit-Onyewu-Spector
Howard
With useful subs like Feilhaber and Clark coming off the bench.
I don't know much about Jones, but I'd think the central midfield's going to be pretty fantastic for the forseeable future.
Altidore-Davies
Donovan-Jones-Bradley-Dempsey
Bocanegra-Demerit-Onyewu-Spector
Howard
With useful subs like Feilhaber and Clark coming off the bench.
Looks good!
I wonder what midfield pairing we'll see tomorrow?
I can't wait for tomorrow. I'm going into work early so I can leave at 4 and get Claddagh to watch the game.
Of course everytime I'm this excited they get crushed so maybe I should tamp it down a bit.
Nice, HR. :D I feel you on not wanting to get too excited for fear of what usually happens when we let ourselves do that.
Is Claddagh a pub in Indy?
NJReds
08-11-2009, 01:39 PM
I believe Adu and Beasley are still hunting for teams at this moment. Don't be surprised to see both of them back in MLS next season.
At this rate, Adu should probably come back to MLS. The Red Bulls need some help. But it looks like he's going to the Danish league.
Benfica’s Adu close to joining Odense BK on loan
Benfica midfielder Freddy Adu is on reportedly on the verge of joining Danish club Odense BK on a one-year loan.
The US international has been linked with a loan move for much of Europe’s off season and it now seems as though a deal has come to fruition.
The 20-year old could be unveiled this week which is great timing for him as Odense are involved in a Europa League play-off with Italian club Genoa later this month.
Adu spent much of last season on loan in France with Monaco and now needs to find a club where he can play regular first team football.
Thanks for posting that, NJ. Hopefully he can be a member of their regular XI for the entire season. I'm glad he's not coming home. He's still only 20 freaking years old and returning to MLS would pretty much end his career b/f it even got started.
NJReds
08-11-2009, 01:43 PM
Looks good!
I wonder what midfield pairing we'll see tomorrow?
Here's the roster for tomorrow's game. Holden made the squad. I suspect Bradley will start Ching and Davies up front and bring in Altidore off the bench.
Goalkeepers: Brad Guzan (Aston Villa), Tim Howard (Everton).
Defenders: Carlos Bocanegra (Stade Rennes), Jonathan Bornstein (Chivas USA), Steve Cherundolo (Hanover 96), Jay DeMerit (Watford), Chad Marshall (Columbus Crew), Oguchi Onyewu (AC Milan), Jonathan Spector (West Ham United).
Midfielders: Michael Bradley (Borussia Moenchengladbach), Ricardo Clark (Houston Dynamo), Clint Dempsey (Fulham), Benny Feilhaber (Aarhus), Stuart Holden (Houston Dynamo), Jose Francisco Torres (Pachuca).
Forwards: Jozy Altidore (Villarreal), Conor Casey (Colorado Rapids), Brian Ching (Houston Dynamo), Charlie Davies (Sochaux), Landon Donovan (Los Angeles Galaxy).
improbus
08-11-2009, 01:44 PM
Let's hope that we don't hear the words, "Starting Forward, Brian Ching" tomorrow...
NJReds
08-11-2009, 01:45 PM
Let's hope that we don't hear the words, "Starting Forward, Brian Ching" tomorrow...
He's a Bradley favorite. I bet we will.
Gotta believe he'll go with Clark and Bradley in the middle. I would prefer Feilhaber in this match over Clark but ROBOBOB loves him some defensive mids...
If he doesn't start Davies and Altidore I'll fly down to Mexico City and kick his ass myself.
NJReds
08-11-2009, 01:49 PM
Gotta believe he'll go with Clark and Bradley in the middle. I would prefer Feilhaber in this match over Clark but ROBOBOB loves him some defensive mids...
If he doesn't start Davies and Altidore I'll fly down to Mexico City and kick his ass myself.
Agreed on Clark and Bradley. I still think he'll go w/Ching over Altidore and bring in Jose off the bench (if he remembers that he's allowed to use subs).
I hope I'm wrong, though.
Really? I think Jozy's name is pretty much etched in stone at this point... if he bumps anyone for Ching I'd think it would be Charlie.
He'll bring in Benny before Jose. ALTHOUGH YES BOB YOU ARE ALLOWED TO USE MORE THAN ONE SUB!!! :D I think he'll bring in one or the other between those two, not both. And he'll probably make that sub around the 80th minute no matter what the score is.
Caveat Emperor
08-11-2009, 02:00 PM
Has anything been worked out with English broadcast rights for the match? If there's an English telecast I can watch on DirecTV, I'll dip out of work early tomorrow to go home and watch.
NJReds
08-11-2009, 02:00 PM
Really? I think Jozy's name is pretty much etched in stone at this point... if he bumps anyone for Ching I'd think it would be Charlie.
My read on Bradley is that he'll start the more experienced guys because the game is in Azteca. Again, I hope I'm wrong.
My read on Bradley is that he'll start the more experienced guys because the game is in Azteca. Again, I hope I'm wrong.
So who do you think he will start?
Bob's biggest prejudice, in my opinion, is that he salivates over guys who play in Europe. I'm not saying that is necessarily a negative prejudice either.
His godawful tactics are my biggest issue with him. His player selection has seemed to generally favor common sense / intelligence. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit but this is what I expect to see tomorrow.
Altidore - Davies
Donovan - Dempsey
Clarke - Bradley
Bocanegra - DeMerit - Onyewu - Spector
Howard
Yachtzee
08-11-2009, 02:09 PM
Has anything been worked out with English broadcast rights for the match? If there's an English telecast I can watch on DirecTV, I'll dip out of work early tomorrow to go home and watch.
Allegedly, Telemundo is going to allow all carriers, including DirectTV, to show it for free on their "mun2" channel.
Fil3232
08-11-2009, 02:15 PM
Direct TV has the game in English on channel 203. It's a special preview of mun2 they are allowing for the game.
NJReds
08-11-2009, 02:20 PM
So who do you think he will start?
Bob's biggest prejudice, in my opinion, is that he salivates over guys who play in Europe. I'm not saying that is necessarily a negative prejudice either.
His godawful tactics are my biggest issue with him. His player selection has seemed to generally favor common sense / intelligence. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit but this is what I expect to see tomorrow.
Altidore - Davies
Donovan - Dempsey
Clarke - Bradley
Bocanegra - DeMerit - Onyewu - Spector
Howard
I like your starting 11. I think Big Bob will go with the exact same lineup except I think that he'll start Ching over Altidore. If he goes with Altidore to start, he'll probably bring Davies off the bench to use his speed to take advantage of a tired Mexican defense.
NJReds
08-11-2009, 02:28 PM
Here's what the US will be facing in Azteca ...
USA’s trip to soccer hell (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=AlJFqxSoFMzXZhTZevkXp6Umw7YF?slug=ro-usmexico081109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
Martin Rogers
“Imagine putting a treadmill in the middle of Mile High Stadium and having a blow-dryer blast hot ashes into your face.”
Eric Wynalda’s lucid description paints a vivid picture, but the men who have ventured into the cauldron of Estadio Azteca in Mexico City are united in a common belief. Whatever you’ve heard, however you’ve prepared and no matter how hard you try, there is no way of imagining the brutal tribulations of an away day in Mexico until it has been experienced.
bury the past, Bradley must go forward Aug 10, 2009 Mexico's desperate times, desperate measures Aug 9, 2009 Team USA heads to one of soccer’s most imposing destinations again on Wednesday, as the road to next year’s World Cup in South Africa takes a detour through a concrete version of sporting hell.
Glances at the history books of this rivalry are furtive and laced with embarrassment for the national team, which has lost 22 of the 23 matches in Mexico – punctuated only by a 0-0 draw in 1997.
The Azteca is no normal soccer destination. The thin air of altitude nearing 8,000 feet, thick and choking smog, plus the small matter of 105,000 rabid fans and a pumped Mexico team combine to create a monster – and not the furry kind that pop up in cartoons.
Grown men have been reduced to mental and physiological wrecks by the conditions. For the handful of first-time visitors on Bob Bradley’s squad, the visit will be a fierce test of attrition and spirit.
Wynalda helped produce the only blip on Mexico’s home record against the United States, having been part of the squad that forced that tie on Nov. 2, 1997. Yet he also remembers a 4-0 defeat in 1993, a day when he put his hands to his mouth to stifle a cough only to find them spattered with his own blood seconds later.
Vomiting, dizziness and lung-bursting agonies all form part of the experience that awaits Team USA – an obstacle course through undiscovered levels of physical discomfort.
Medical wisdom will tell you these are conditions – the altitude in particular – to which players cannot acclimate in a short period of time. Mainly due to the restrictions of the international soccer calendar, Bradley’s squad will fly in from Miami and spend just a single night in Mexico.
“It is a totally unfair advantage,” Wynalda said. “It is impossible to adapt unless you are used to it. In the past, myself and other guys have coughed big black chunks; half of the team would throw up and many ended on an intravenous drip. You go in knowing it will be horrible and that you’re going to lose a day of your life.”
Marcelo Balboa, another integral part of the 1997 team, will be commentating on Wednesday’s contest for cable network Mun2. Balboa spent time as a professional in the Mexican league with Leon but still remembers the physical challenges experienced at the Azteca with Team USA.
“You can’t breathe,” he said. “You are gasping for air and you look over to see people coughing up a lung. The smog is embedded in your chest and there is nothing to do about it.”
Fortune favored the United States in 1997. After a preparatory camp in San Bernardino, Calif., had given the players some inkling of the conditions to expect, two days of prematch rain cleared the air enough to lessen the impact of the smog.
A similar scenario is unlikely this time – and a 3 p.m. kickoff ensures maximum discomfort for the visitors.
Wynalda says the United States’ first-choice side, fresh from its run to the final of the Confederations Cup, is the better unit. But he insists a 2-0 or 3-0 defeat is the most likely outcome.
“It has nothing to do with ability or which team is better,” he said. “It is just physiologically impossible to acclimatize unless you have over a week in that environment.
“You can’t chase around. You have to break your game into 150 to 200 five-yard sprints. The USA has to get at them early while they still have the energy and put pressure on them. But they have to be smart and leave something in the tank.
“And they have to know that what they are letting themselves in for is horrible and stick together. We were like a band of brothers in 1997 – we were supposed to die that day and we came through.”
Even without the conditions, the Azteca would still be mightily imposing.
Mexico’s road record is abysmal, the main reason why it is in danger of missing out on the World Cup finals. At home, however, Mexico is transformed into a different animal, buoyed by the support of a nation and relishing the familiarity of the hostile surroundings.
Balboa says the personal animosity between players on both sides was greater during the 1990s than today, even though the rivalry has escalated and now generates far greater media and public attention.
“Playing in Mexico was an amazing crash course in international soccer for me,” Balboa said. “I remember in the early days, I was standing by the post on a corner kick and someone just came up and smacked me in the [groin].
“People were taking cheap shots all the time, stepping on people’s feet and doing whatever they could get away with. Tackles from the side and the back, with studs up, were flying in.”
The Mexican public plays its part, too. Sirens outside the U.S. team hotel at 3 a.m. can be expected like clockwork and a police escort will guard the squad at all times.
Landon Donovan has insisted Bradley’s team believes it can win the game – and if it does, it would automatically go down as one of the greatest results in U.S. soccer history.
But whatever the outcome, the Azteca will exact its physical toll and will always be a destination to be survived, not conquered.
Hoosier Red
08-11-2009, 02:43 PM
Is Claddagh a pub in Indy?
Claddagh's a small Irish chain based in Columbus. And despite my protest of not wanting to go there because the manager was a royal pain when I was a lowly radio sales guy. That was 6 years ago and I've been assured that the game will be on, which is good enough for me.
Hoosier Red
08-12-2009, 12:41 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/grant_wahl/08/12/usa.mexico.pregame/index.html?eref=sihpT1
3.5 hours to game time. Lineups should hopefully be up soon.
NJReds
08-12-2009, 12:50 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/grant_wahl/08/12/usa.mexico.pregame/index.html?eref=sihpT1
3.5 hours to game time. Lineups should hopefully be up soon.
Heard that that the temps will be mild today, around 75 degrees. That doesn't help the smog and altitude, but at least it's not blistering hot, too.
Hoosier Red
08-12-2009, 01:55 PM
Ives expects we'll see Ching and Davies up top to start. Altidore hasn't played in a month.
USA vs. Mexico: Matchday Preview
"It's on our list of things to do."
With an uncharacteristic smirk on his face and confidence in his voice, Bob Bradley uttered those words back in February when asked about the U.S. national team winning in Mexico. The Americans had just defeated Mexico in Columbus and Bradley had every reason to feel confident about his team's chances of coming to Mexico and recording the team's first victory on American soil.
Six months later, we will find out if Bradley and his men can do what no other U.S. team has ever done, win in Mexico and win in Estadio Azteca. The Americans will face Mexico today (4pm, Mun2, Telemundo) with an entire country desperate to see their team beat the United States and keep alive Mexico's hopes of qualifying for the World Cup.
Yes, for all the built-in drama and intensity of this series there is also the fact that Mexico's World Cup qualifying campaign has been brutally disappointing and anything short of a win today will jeopardize Mexico's chances of qualifying. That fact has added even more pressure to a match that already had plenty.
So what will the game itself look like today? What players should we expect to play key roles? Here's a closer look at the potential lineups, the match-ups and the key factors in today's game:
We can start with the projected lineups and how the teams will look:
USA vs. Mexico: The lineups
===============Ochoa===================
Osorio====Galindo=====Salcido=======Rojas
--------------CHING-----------DAVIES---------------
==========Torrado======Castro===========
DONOVAN----------------------------------DEMPSEY
Dos Santos========================Guardado
-------------BRADLEY---------CLARK---------------
=========Blanco=========Vela=============
BOCANEGRA--ONYEWU--DEMERIT------SPECTOR
----------------------HOWARD------------------------
Both teams have similar questions about their lineups. Who will play right back and who will play up top?
For the USA, the big question is whether Bob Bradley will stick with Confederations Cup forwards Davies and Altidore, or start Ching in place of one of them. I'm going with a Ching-Davies combo because both are more fit right now than Altidore, who hasn't played in more than a month and hasn't trained that much.
Right back is also a question, with Spector and Cherundolo vying for the nod. Spector was very good in the Confederations Cup, but Cherundolo is fit and has the experience edge. We give the nod to Spector today.
For Mexico, whether or not Cuauhtemoc Blanco will start is a big question. Blanco is talking like he will be a starter, but it is not a lock considering he just played a tough 90 minutes on Sunday for the Chicago Fire. He's got the experience, and Aguirre loves him, so don't be surprised to see him get the nod.
Now, if Blanco starts, you could see him up top as a withdrawn forward or in a central role in a 4-2-3-1. An attack with Blanco, Guardado, Dos Santos and Vela would be extremely dangerous and one the American defense will have a hard time keeping off the scoreboard.
If Blanco does NOT start, you'd see Guille Franco up top with Vela in a 4-4-2 formation, a lineup that is getting plenty of play in projections among Mexican media. Franco seems like the more sensible pick because he's a holding forward who Dos Santos and Vela can run off.
So what are the keys today for a United States victory (or draw)? Here are five to consider:
Withstanding the early onslaught: The first 20 minutes of the match will be a frenetic mess with deafening crowd noise and a Mexico team that will surely attack in waves looking for that vital first goal. The U.S. defense must show the defensive discipline that helped it beat Spain, and cannot let the Mexicans get on the board early on. That doesn't mean bunkering, but it does mean keeping good shape as a formation and getting the ball to the attackers to help relieve that early pressure. The longer the Americans keep the shutout the faster Mexico will lose its advantage in the stands.
Containing the wings: Gio Dos Santos and Guardado are two fast, skillful and extremely dangerous players who will provide a stiff test for Spector and Bocanegra, who will need consistent help from Donovan and Dempsey, as well as central midfielders Bradley and Clark to contain Mexico's dynamic wing duo.
Getting Donovan the ball: It's no secret who the USA's top attacker is, or who Mexico will key on. Donovan is playing at a high level and his speed should be able to cause fits for Mexico's right back, whether it is Ricardo Osorio or Efrain Juarez.
So how confident is Donovan these days? Listen to this quote from him on Tuesday:
“This is the best I’ve ever played, but I want to stress that it’s not something that’s going to come in a stretch and then go away,” Donovan told media on Tuesday. “This is me now, this is how I play.”
Handle the Mexico counterattack: Anyone who saw the Gold Cup final knows that Mexico has the weapons to punish opponents on the counterattack, but the key to stopping that will be to not get too stretched on the attack. That shouldn't be a problem for a disciplined group of American players who are considerably better than the U.S. squad that got torched in the Gold Cup final.
Make the crowd turn on Mexico: Having a crowd of more than 100,000 crazed fans has its obvious benefits, but also its drawbacks. In this case, the drawback comes when Mexico struggles, and if the Mexicans can't crack the U.S. defense, or worse yet for them, fall behind, the Azteca fans will start to turn on their team and apply even more pressure to a Mexico squad under enough pressure. This is why Mexico will be desperate to find an early goal.
---------------------
So what is my prediction? I think we will have a 1-1 tie, with Donovan and Guardado scoring the goals in a result the Americans will gladly take.
SBI will be providing commentary throughout the day (internet connection permitting) and during the match, so be sure to follow our coverage all day long. For now, make this post your place for all match-day discussions.
What is your take on today's match? Who do you think will be the key for Mexico? What do you see as the most important factor in stopping Mexico today? What do you see today's result being?
Redlegs212
08-12-2009, 02:19 PM
im all for Jozy Altidore
link to game online. very high quality: http://www.justin.tv/alv3
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 03:11 PM
Time Warner has mun2 on free mode. Some music video show on right now with young hipsters playing foosball in between to get us ready for the game. How about a proper pregame show at least?
Hoosier Red
08-12-2009, 03:16 PM
Starting Lineups, from Soccer by Ives
USA
--------------Ching----------Davies-----------------
Donovan----------------------------------Dempsey
-----------------Bradley-----Clark------------------------
Bocanegra-----Onyewu-----DeMerit-----Cherundolo
-------------------------Howard--------------------------
MEXICO
-----------------Franco---------Blanco--------------------
Guardado---------------------------------------Dos Santos
------------------Torrado------Castro---------------------
Juarez---------Magallon-------Salcido----------Osorio
--------------------------Ochoa------------------------------
Thanks for posting that, HR.
I didn't realize that Jozy hadn't been training... I guess I'm alright with Ching starting since that is the case. I guess we'll see Jozy around min. 65-70. Possibly earlier if we're down a goal.
Getting nervous/excited.
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 03:52 PM
Marcelo Balboa = pirate
I didn't realize he didn't start Spector. Bob I hate you. I can't wait until we have a new coach.
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 04:12 PM
GOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAL! Davies
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 04:14 PM
USA 1 - 0 Mexico
OUReds
08-12-2009, 04:14 PM
My gosh, a forward who can finish. Wonderful.
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH
charlie bleeping davies!!! :D
I see Marcelo still sucks at commentary just as badly as he used to.
Reds Fanatic
08-12-2009, 04:18 PM
Has anything been worked out with English broadcast rights for the match? If there's an English telecast I can watch on DirecTV, I'll dip out of work early tomorrow to go home and watch.DirecTV has it on free to all subscribers today on channel 203. I wish I could be home to watch it.
english broadcast: http://www.justin.tv/espn2k9
typical azteca match... landon gets fouled... no call... they score
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 04:23 PM
Ouch. Mexico equalizes 20'
guttle11
08-12-2009, 04:25 PM
That shot was ridiculous. I'll give them that all day. 999/1000 that doesn't go in.
We're fine.
Marcelo is such an ignorant [fool]. He doesn't even know how to pronounce Davies.
How the hell was that a card?!!!!!?
improbus
08-12-2009, 04:40 PM
Mexico is dominating the play right now...:(
Ref sucks just as bad as expected.
what a stupid challenge from boca. he's supposed to be a veteran.
I'll take the draw... US is not playing particularly well but may be playing as well as we can expect them to play in Azteca.
Ref sucks.
Hope ROBOBOB doesn't wait too long to make subs today.
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 05:08 PM
Bob Bradley has subbed in Bruce Arena for himself, according to the announcers.
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 05:39 PM
Should have been at least 1 red card on Mexico if not 2 in the scuffle w/ Davies and Feilhaber.
NJReds
08-12-2009, 05:40 PM
Should have been at least 1 red card on Mexico if not 2 in the scuffle w/ Davies and Feilhaber.
That's my biggest complaint against soccer. The officiating is downright awful, even at the highest levels. It's hard to take the sport seriously sometimes.
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 05:41 PM
Apparently putting your hands on a guys throat only rates a yellow in Azteca
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 05:43 PM
Unibrow is mixing it up with Onyewu now.
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 05:44 PM
Mexico scores - 2-1
Dirty bleeping mexicans. i hate them.
Yachtzee
08-12-2009, 05:47 PM
Unibrow was getting chippy with the US players because he thought they were time wasting when they weren't and now he's rolling around on the ground.
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