Good Hypothetical Discussion

[Ghosts of 1990]

Ok, so tonight I'm playing MLB 2k9 and on the game in my franchise Joey Votto and Jay Bruce are approaching some career milestones that are pretty impressive.

500 Home Runs +
Also Bruce looks to be a 3,000 hit guy.


Here's the question I was pondering tonight.....

If either one of these guys ends up being truly that special in this game, in terms of an all-time great, will the Reds really pony up the cash and keep them?

I guess we'll be lucky to ever have to worry about it, but it's a funny thought. I guess I almost have the feeling that if either or both of these guys end up becoming megastars they'll be gone once they hit their prime.

[Eric_the_Red]

A) I think they would definitely pay to keep them around if they turn out to be studs. The organization has "given them the keys" so to speak, and if they turn out to be those types of players, I think they would sign them long term.

B) 500 HR and 3,000 hits? How much do you play this game?! :eek::p:

[TheNext44]

Cast has shown that he is willing to pay players what they are worth, or more, if he thinks they are key parts of the team. Harang, Arroyo, Phillips, Cordero...
I think Votto and Bruce will be easier decisions than these guys.

[will5979]

I don't mean to re-hash this, really I don't...but why did the organization not see Adam Dunn as a possible lifer in a Reds uniform? I mean the man was easily on his way to being the Reds all time leader in HRs. I just feel that he is a possibly modern Babe Ruth, laugh if you want, but there is something special about that kid.

[Eric_the_Red]

I don't mean to re-hash this, really I don't...but why did the organization not see Adam Dunn as a possible lifer in a Reds uniform? I mean the man was easily on his way to being the Reds all time leader in HRs. I just feel that he is a possibly modern Babe Ruth, laugh if you want, but there is something special about that kid.

Probably something to do with the fact that his defense is also Ruth-like, and by Ruth-like I mean the Babe's corpse.

Actually I think the corpse may have slightly more range and a better arm.

If the Reds played in the AL and could hide Dunn at DH, then I think he would still be here.

[Jerome]

I don't mean to re-hash this, really I don't...but why did the organization not see Adam Dunn as a possible lifer in a Reds uniform? I mean the man was easily on his way to being the Reds all time leader in HRs. I just feel that he is a possibly modern Babe Ruth, laugh if you want, but there is something special about that kid.

There is no way this will end well.


http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

[REDblooded]

Adam Dunn.... Babe Ruth...

Sure. that's a fair comparison...

[Captain Hook]

Speaking of Dunn I thought it was funny to hear that Japans strategy against team USA was to simply hit the ball to Dunn.Wounder how many years teams have been doing this to the Reds?

[ChatterRed]

Adam Dunn.... Babe Ruth...

Sure. that's a fair comparison...

I'm offended. I had it more like Adam Dunn........Willie Mays......

[will5979]

Adam Dunn.... Babe Ruth...

Sure. that's a fair comparison...

ok laugh at me if you want. I like Adam Dunn and if he were a lifer Red he easily would have finished (barring injury) with over 600 career hrs as a Red. That would have been nice all things considered there isn't much to cheer about these days. I just look at the old school Reds jerseys of 1972-1992 on ebay and cry knowing our glory days our gone, we don't have a Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, or Barry Larkin. It was nice following someone that played with Larkin before he retired that could have been a lifer Red. There just isn't any players on this team besides Votto that I'm truely excited about. He is only 29 years old and will have over 300 hrs before the year ends. That was a good comparison about if the Reds had a DH.

At least his loud hrs and dominance of the freakin Indians gave this Reds fan some joy this decade.

[Jerome]

ok laugh at me if you want. I like Adam Dunn and if he were a lifer Red he easily would have finished (barring injury) with over 600 career hrs as a Red. That would have been nice all things considered there isn't much to cheer about these days. I just look at the old school Reds jerseys of 1972-1992 on ebay and cry knowing our glory days our gone, we don't have a Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, or Barry Larkin. It was nice following someone that played with Larkin before he retired that could have been a lifer Red. There just isn't any players on this team besides Votto that I'm truely excited about. He is only 29 years old and will have over 300 hrs before the year ends. That was a good comparison about if the Reds had a DH.

At least his loud hrs and dominance of the freakin Indians gave this Reds fan some joy this decade.


Way to not back down. Stand strong by the Big Donkey!!


http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

[Nasty_Boy]

Could you imagine the past 8 seasons without Dunn? It's hard to imagine how much worse this team could have been... hell, he was the only reason to watch most Septembers.

I agree about Dunn's potential standing in history. The man could put up some truely historic numbers and be seen as an alltime great power hitter... especially since he isn't under the cloud of steroids. If he hits 600+ HRs, he would be 1 of only 4-5 guys to achieve such a feat without PED's. I think he'll be looked on better in the future than how he's looked at now.

[Jerome]

Could you imagine the past 8 seasons without Dunn? It's hard to imagine how much worse this team could have been... hell, he was the only reason to watch most Septembers.

I agree about Dunn's potential standing in history. The man could put up some truely historic numbers and be seen as an alltime great power hitter... especially since he isn't under the cloud of steroids. If he hits 600+ HRs, he would be 1 of only 4-5 guys to achieve such a feat without PED's. I think he'll be looked on better in the future than how he's looked at now.

Agreed. From a historical context, people might give him more credit down the line, even if he never plays on a winning team. He's an enhanced Dave Kingman.

http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

[Ghosts of 1990]

I really didn't want this to turn into a Dunn thread but thats where it is going. And honestly I tend to agree with will. I have/had the same feelings with Dunn as a youngster as I do with Bruce, and potentially Votto.

Say what you want about Dunn..... facts are facts. The guy was a premium commodity in baseball and the best player we had. He wasn't the best player in baseball, but he was a special talent based on the numbers he put up. I remember back in 2002 in his first full big league season a few surrounding the Reds said they'd believed that he'd retire as one of the all-time greatest Reds in history based on the numbers he'd put up. Somehow I just knew though, that he'd never last that long in Cincinnati, I knew the Reds would find some reason not to pay the guy and keep one of their own who'd actually been consistent enough to make it an argument.

It's almost like the Reds were looking for reasons to get rid of Adam Dunn..... the bottom line is he could have been here for the next 5 years for a very reasonable amount. They didn't do it for one reason or another.

Dunn is a stud of a ballplayer, although I think Bruce and Votto could end up better for different reasons Dunn does things that only he can do in this game.... Thats 40/100/ and play in 155+ games year in and year out.

You have to wonder because of what happened with Dunn if the Reds aren't just a cheap organization. I mean, they have already had the chance to lock up Votto and Bruce long term and they have refused to do so. Other successful organizations that aren't cheap lock up their young talent and go on and win with it. The Indians did it with Sizemore. The Rays did it with Kazmir, Longoria, etc. The Cardinals did it with Pujols a few years back. For Gods sake at some point the Reds need to stop looking for reasons NOT to sign a guy longterm and make a commitment to their nucleus. I don't want examples like Harang, Phillips, etc. These guys all signed what isn't considered a long term contract. A long term contract is 5 years or more locking them up through their prime years. Thats how you build a winner.

I dont think the Reds keeping Bruce and Votto long term is a sure thing. Because we are a cheap organization. Its almost like, if they aren't legit studs, they wont be here (obviously) and if they are they'll price themselves out of Cincinnati because we don't keep good players. It's sad. People wonder why we continiously aren't any good.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Agreed. From a historical context, people might give him more credit down the line, even if he never plays on a winning team. He's an enhanced Dave Kingman.

http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

No offense, but you really need to look at the facts that are out there.

He's not Dave Kingman, other then they are both big, left handed hitters who strike out in abundance (there's a lot of other big bodied LH power hitters that do that too).

Kingman NEVER had statistical seasons that could stack up to Dunn's let alone 5 or 6 of these special statistical seasons in a row. If he had played with the consistency Dunn has, we might be talking about Dave Kingman, Hall of Famer right now.

[Nasty_Boy]

left handed hitters

Kingman was Right Handed... other than that, carry on.

[Ghosts of 1990]

Played his final game when I was 4. Understandable why I was confused

[Jerome]

Note I said enhanced Dave Kingman. Maybe sounded better in my head. I'm Dunn4Life. He had me at hello.


http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

[will5979]

I really didn't want this to turn into a Dunn thread but thats where it is going. And honestly I tend to agree with will. I have/had the same feelings with Dunn as a youngster as I do with Bruce, and potentially Votto.

Say what you want about Dunn..... facts are facts. The guy was a premium commodity in baseball and the best player we had. He wasn't the best player in baseball, but he was a special talent based on the numbers he put up. I remember back in 2002 in his first full big league season a few surrounding the Reds said they'd believed that he'd retire as one of the all-time greatest Reds in history based on the numbers he'd put up. Somehow I just knew though, that he'd never last that long in Cincinnati, I knew the Reds would find some reason not to pay the guy and keep one of their own who'd actually been consistent enough to make it an argument.

It's almost like the Reds were looking for reasons to get rid of Adam Dunn..... the bottom line is he could have been here for the next 5 years for a very reasonable amount. They didn't do it for one reason or another.

Dunn is a stud of a ballplayer, although I think Bruce and Votto could end up better for different reasons Dunn does things that only he can do in this game.... Thats 40/100/ and play in 155+ games year in and year out.

You have to wonder because of what happened with Dunn if the Reds aren't just a cheap organization. I mean, they have already had the chance to lock up Votto and Bruce long term and they have refused to do so. Other successful organizations that aren't cheap lock up their young talent and go on and win with it. The Indians did it with Sizemore. The Rays did it with Kazmir, Longoria, etc. The Cardinals did it with Pujols a few years back. For Gods sake at some point the Reds need to stop looking for reasons NOT to sign a guy longterm and make a commitment to their nucleus. I don't want examples like Harang, Phillips, etc. These guys all signed what isn't considered a long term contract. A long term contract is 5 years or more locking them up through their prime years. Thats how you build a winner.

I dont think the Reds keeping Bruce and Votto long term is a sure thing. Because we are a cheap organization. Its almost like, if they aren't legit studs, they wont be here (obviously) and if they are they'll price themselves out of Cincinnati because we don't keep good players. It's sad. People wonder why we continiously aren't any good.

well said, took the words right out of my mouth. Love or hate em one thing I appreciate about the Yankees is that they actually try to field a winner EACH year and PLEASE their fans. You don't tell your loyal fans that you are intentionally going to lose, that just ain't right. We should be good EVERY year. At least after the 70s one would think this organization would strive to be good EVERY year. Success is nice, stick with it, don't run it into the ground.

Also earlier when I compared Dunn to Ruth, maybe that was a stretch! I should've said Reggie JAckson instead. In case you can't tell my favorite American League club is the Yankees.