Reds vs Phils 7/7/09

[Red in Chicago]

here you go

[Chip R]

Let's see if we can hold them under 20!

[Matt700wlw]

Here we are again!

[nate]

Chat is open!

[SirFelixCat]

Tonight should tell us about the mettle of this team. Not nec. if they win or lose, but how they play tonight. I'm curious to see it.

[GAC]

Cincinnati

W. Taveras cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .244
J. Hairston Jr. ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .258
J. Votto 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .361
B. Phillips 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .265
J. Gomes lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .329
R. Hernandez c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .250
J. Bruce rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .215
E. Encarnacion 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .133
A. Harang p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .125


Philadelphia

J. Rollins ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .224
S. Victorino cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .308
C. Utley 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .305
R. Howard 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .252
J. Werth rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .263
G. Dobbs lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .271
P. Feliz 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .291
C. Ruiz c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .234
J.A. Happ p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .071

[Tom Servo]

Taveras starts the game off with a hit. How often does THAT happen?

[Reds Fanatic]

Taveras reaches on an infield single

[GAC]

WT singles leading to another George Grande comment on when Taveras hits the ball on the ground he has a chance to beat it out. :lol:

[Reds Fanatic]

Hairston pops out to 1st.

[NC Reds]

Jerry Hairston, meet career norms.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[Gallen5862]

Lets score some runs Reds.

[GAC]

He looked safe to me

[Reds Fanatic]

Taveras is caught stealing. 0-0 mid 1st.

[NC Reds]

Looked like a bad call to me.

[Tom Servo]

He looked safe to me
Agreed.

[Matt700wlw]

Tavares' quest for 100 hits another bump in the road

[Kc61]

Not that close he was safe.

[Tom Servo]

Replay shows Taveras was indeed safe.

[Reds Fanatic]

Replay confirms he was safe.

[guttle11]

That wasn't even close. Utley's glove is more than a foot from Taveras when he hits the bag, and the ump is right there with a perfect angle.

[GAC]

how can the ump miss that call? his foot was clearly in there. So what if the ball beat you to the bag?

[Reds Fanatic]

Rollins strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Victorino grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Utley singles to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Utley is caught stealing and it was the right call this time. 0-0 after 1.

[Falls City Beer]

Be still my heart: a scoreless first.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomes strikes out looking. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hernandez flies out to center. 0-0 mid 2nd.

[VR]

Lefty
Reds haven't faced before
Rookie
Soft tosser

How can they struggle against the same 4 things through 10 years? :confused::)

[Reds Fanatic]

Here we go again. A long homer to center by Howard. 1-0 Phillies.

[Tom Servo]

Ryan the Temp homers. 1-0 Phillies.

[CTA513]

George sounded happy

[guttle11]

Can't throw over the plate against the Phillies.

[oneupper]

Hold 'em to 20, boys!

[paintmered]

Maybe if I poke my head in here, I can bring the Reds some luck. Here's hoping...

[Tom Servo]

It's starting.

2-0 Phillies.

[SirFelixCat]

:lol:

[paintmered]

Maybe if I poke my head in here, I can bring the Reds some luck. Here's hoping...

Nope. Guess not.

[Reds Fanatic]

Can the Reds just leave Philly. Werth homers to right center.

[Matt700wlw]

:rant:

[CTA513]

Time to knock someone over.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dobbs flies out to center

[VR]

For 10 innings....they have been digging in their heels and taking vicious rips. At what point do you start throwing a few high and tight?

[CTA513]

For 10 innings....they have been digging in their heels and taking vicious rips. At what point do you start throwing a few high and tight?

As soon as Volquez gets back.

[paintmered]

Time to knock someone over.

If there was ever a time, now's it. The Reds collective pitching staff must maintain dominance of the inside part of the plate.

[Matt700wlw]

Time to knock someone over.

This team??

[Reds Fanatic]

Feliz singles to right.

[Falls City Beer]

This team??

This pitcher? The guy's a bit of a kitty cat for my taste.

[BCubb2003]

So what's the issue here? Is it not on Dick Pole's radar? Does anyone ask him about it? Does he have a different school of thought on this?

[paintmered]

Let's not fall into a defeatist attitude. Criticize, but this "woe is us" attitude is going to kill off the board.

Harang just rung up his second K.

Edit: make it three.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruiz strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[Matt700wlw]

Someone mentioned Volquez....he'd be one to do it. I think Bailey, in time, if he pans out is a guy who would do it

[Reds Fanatic]

Happ strikes out looking. 2-0 Phillies after 2.

[Falls City Beer]

Let's not fall into a defeatist attitude. Criticize, but this "woe is us" attitude is going to kill off the board.

Harang just rung up his second K.

Edit: make it three.

The only other option we got is to laugh about it right now. If you're objective about this team the last 5 nights, you're still looking for a dose of cyanide.

With that in mind, Happ occasionally looks like Rik from The Young Ones.

[Strikes Out Looking]

This team??

I don't think the manager has any agressiveness in him. Just my humble opinion--the players may think the world of Dusty but his aw shucks demeanor isn't one that has pitchers zinging balls inside.

[Kc61]

Bruce on the road against a lefty. Guess what?

K.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce strikes out swinging. 4 Ks by Happ.

[paintmered]

The only other option we got is to laugh about it right now. If you're objective about this team the last 5 nights, you're still looking for a dose of cyanide.

With that in mind, Happ occasionally looks like Rik from The Young Ones.

Then I choose to laugh. There's still joy in this game. Sometimes you just have to choose to look for it.

[VR]

Riddle me this....how do you get 1 strike thrown to you, and yet strike out?

[Kc61]

EE, now 2-13 upon his triumphant return.

K

[Reds Fanatic]

Edwin strikes out swinging. 5 Ks.

[paintmered]

Riddle me this....how do you get 1 strike thrown to you, and yet strike out?

Pressing. Big time.

[Falls City Beer]

Then I choose to laugh. There's still joy in this game. Sometimes you just have to choose to look for it.

I agree.

[Matt700wlw]

Riddle me this....how do you get 1 strike thrown to you, and yet strike out?

Edwin can do it seeing 0 strikes

[Reds Fanatic]

Harang singles to right.

[Kc61]

Harang singles to right. Didn't he get the memo?

[Homer Bailey]

The Reds need a 3B.

[guttle11]

Our leadoff hitter just bunted with two outs and a slow runner on first.

Is this where I'm supposed to find humor?

[Strikes Out Looking]

Harang singles to right. Didn't he get the memo?

dusty should go the genius one better and bat his pitcher fourth on a daily basis.

[Reds Fanatic]

Taveras attempts a bunt and grounds back to Happ. 2-0 Phillies mid 3rd.

[GAC]

I hope Baker didn't call for that WT bunt with friggin' 2 outs. I'm gonna have to put that one solely on idiot Taveras.

[Strikes Out Looking]

The Reds need a 3B.

And a SS, and a CF, and a pitching coach, and a batting coach, and ... should I stop now? (Like the losing).

[Reds Fanatic]

Rollins singles to left.

[VR]

Our leadoff hitter just bunted with two outs and a slow runner on first.

Is this where I'm supposed to find humor?

come onnnnnn

[Falls City Beer]

I know what's going to happen this inning but I'm not telling. Guesses?

[oneupper]

I hope Baker didn't call for that WT bunt with friggin' outs. I'm gonna have to put that one solely on idiot Taveras.

Do you think he has a better chance of getting on a different way?

What is Taveras' OBBP (on base with bunt percentage)?

[NC Reds]

Last verse, same as the first verse.

[Reds Fanatic]

Victorino reaches on a infield hit. Edwin made a diving effort but could just knock it down.

[Reds Fanatic]

I know what's going to happen this inning but I'm not telling. Guesses?The Phillies will blow this game open freeing us up to do something better with our night than watch this mess.

[guttle11]

This is all vaguely familiar.

[Reds Fanatic]

Utley doubles down the right field line. 3-0 Phillies.

[CTA513]

I know what's going to happen this inning but I'm not telling. Guesses?

The Phillies will score the Reds wont and everyone will complain.

[nate]

I know what's going to happen this inning but I'm not telling. Guesses?

You make a post telling us how bad the Reds are?

:cool:

[CTA513]

Our leadoff hitter just bunted with two outs and a slow runner on first.

Is this where I'm supposed to find humor?

He doesn't bunt nearly as well as people said he did.

[Matt700wlw]

I know what's going to happen this inning but I'm not telling. Guesses?

You're going to finally go root for another team?

[VR]

Looks like the windows to trade Harang and/or Arroyo for something of any value were slammed quite loudly.

[VR]

52 pitches through 2 full innings for Harang so far.

[Reds Fanatic]

Howard walks.

[Kc61]

Bob C and Walt should be forced to sit in the front row and watch every inning of this mess. And video of last night too.

[Ltlabner]

You're going to finally go root for another team?

I know which team it will be but I'm not telling. Any guesses?

[Reds Fanatic]

Werth strikes out swinging.

[CTA513]

Werth chokes at the chance to get an easy RBI

[Falls City Beer]

You're going to finally go root for another team?

And people say I'm the humorless one...:)

[guttle11]

I know what's going to happen this inning but I'm not telling. Guesses?

Ricky Schroeder will finally land another sitcom?

[Reds Fanatic]

Dobbs pops out to 2nd.

[CTA513]

Phillies choke with the bases loaded and 0 outs.


3-0 Phillies after 3 innings

[Reds Fanatic]

Feliz grounds out to Harang. Good job by Harang to leave the bases loaded. 3-0 Phillies after 3.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice comeback!

[VR]

Whatever Pole said, it worked.

[oneupper]

Whatever Pole said, it worked.

Put it in a song. :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Bloop single to left by Hairston.

[edabbs44]

Whatever Pole said, it worked.

"Can you friggin believe my parents named me Richard?"

[_Sir_Charles_]

Bob C and Walt should be forced to sit in the front row and watch every inning of this mess. And video of last night too.

Our pitchers had a bad night. The Phillies hitters had a good night. Simple as that. Does anybody really think our pitchers are that bad? As in 20+ runs bad? No.

And as for this game, Aaron's allowed 3 runs. Why all the doom and gloom? The lack of offense? Until Bruce breaks out of his slump, this team will struggle to score runs. Same for Edwin. It's still a young lineup, they WILL get better.

And for all the Taveras hate, he is 8 for his last 19.

[VR]

In the last 72 innings...the Reds have scored more than 1 run twice. (2 runs)

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto flies out to left. 1 out.

[VR]

"Can you friggin believe my parents named me Richard?"

I'm guessing it had "cheesesteak" in it.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Phillips! :jump:

3-2 Phils

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips homers to right! 3-2 Phillies.

[guttle11]

Wait, it that even legal? If it is, then YAY!

[VR]

Boy that make me happy to see him go to right. Nicley done.

[Matt700wlw]

:phillips:

:jump:

[VR]

This ump really has an odd strikezone. Everything up and away from righties is a strike, down and in the strikezone to lefties is a ball.

[traderumor]

Man, I thought GABP allowed cheapies, that was probably an out even at our place.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomes grounds out to 3rd. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hernandez lines out to 3rd. 3-2 Phillies mid 4th.

[VR]

Harang needs a shut down inning here.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruiz triples off the wall in center.

[mth123]

Willy Taveras can not play CF. That is all.

[CTA513]

Taveras had no shot because he was playing shallow and then had it bounce off the wall and past him.

[Tom Servo]

Tremendous defense by Taveras.

[VR]

A .228 hitting catcher shouldn't be doing that against Harang.

[Reds Fanatic]

Happ strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rollins grounds out to 2nd. Ruiz stays at 3rd. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Victorino grounds out to short. Harang gets out of another jam. 3-2 Phillies after 4.

[VR]

Nice scoop by Votto, good recovery by Harang.

[11larkin11]

Everyone go to www.Philliesszone.com

They are going absolutely crazy about how their team must be the worst in baseball at getting runners in from third with nobody or one out.

[Ltlabner]

Willy Taveras can not play CF. That is all.

I know people get tired of the WT comments, but for a guy who was touted to bring speed and defense, I haven't seen any speed or much defense from the guy.

[CTA513]

Everyone go to www.Philszone.com

They are going absolutely crazy about how their team must be the worst in baseball at getting runners in from third with nobody or one out.

That was after they scored 0 runs with the bases loaded and no outs last inning.

[REDSEER]

The problem with Willy on that play is that as soon as he realizes that he can't catch that ball, he has to break down and wait for the bounce off the wall. I honestly think that he has so much speed that he thinks he can get to anything, leading to bad angles and misplayed balls.

On the other hand, great job by Bruce to be there for backup.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce strikes out swinging. 6 Ks for Happ.

[Reds Fanatic]

Edwin singles to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Harang sacrifices the runner to 2nd.
Taveras fouls out to the catcher. 3-2 Phillies mid 5th.

[VR]

Jay has had 1 strike thrown to him tonight....and has 2 k's to show for it.

If this was Randy Johnson, I wouldn't be concerned.

[Reds Fanatic]

Utley grounds out to 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Howard strikes out looking. 6 Ks for Harang.

[BCubb2003]

I don't want to jinx it, but we're losing much better tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Werth walks.

[Raisor]

I don't want to jinx it, but we're losing much better tonight.

You're a glass half full kind of dude, right?

[Reds Fanatic]

Dobbs singles to right. 1st and 2nd.

[REDSEER]

To me, it looks like Jay (especially tonight) is thinking too much at the plate. You don't get to the majors and OPS 1.000+ swinging at pitches like he has tonight. Sure, Happ is better than your middle of the road AAA starter, but Bruce is swinging at pitches WAY out of the zone tonight.

As a hitter, there is no time to think. It is nearly all reaction. It seems as though Jay is thinking that he's gonna get hammered with offspeed and gearing up for it, only to get the high fastball thrown by him, the same high fastball that looks like a hanging deuce coming out of Happ's hand.

Just relax, Jay. Let it come to you.

[Reds Fanatic]

Feliz grounds out to 3rd. 3-2 Phillies after 5.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hairston flies out to the warning track in left center. 1 out.

[VR]

A centerfielder!

Didn't the Reds make a run for Victorino?

In other news....everyone knows JHJ is not a home run hitter, except him. And perhaps Dusty.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto grounds out to short. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips homers again!! Tie game 3-3.

[guttle11]

I don't want to jinx it, but we're losing much better tonight.

No we're losing badly again.

[Matt700wlw]

Holy crapsticks!

:phillips:

:jump:

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomes grounds out to 2nd. 3-3 mid 6th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruiz flies out to left. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Happ lines out to 2nd. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rollins strikes out looking. 7 Ks for Harang. 3-3 after 6.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hernandez strikes out looking. That pitch was way inside.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce flies out to left.

[guttle11]

Reds tie game, everyone leaves.

Ah, the internet.

[Reds Fanatic]

Edwin grounds out to 3rd. 3-3 mid 7th.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Rhodes coming in for Harang.

Harang's final line

6 ip / 9 hits / 3 er / 2 bb / 7 k's / 2 dingers

And 1 for 1 with a sac at the plate. :O)

[Reds Fanatic]

Rhodes in to pitch.

Victorino flies out to right.

[Big Klu]

Rhodes coming in for Harang.

Harang's final line

6 ip / 9 hits / 3 er / 2 bb / 7 k's / 2 dingers

And 1 for 1 with a sac at the plate. :O)

He didn't have his best stuff, but a solid effort.

[Reds Fanatic]

Utley grounds a ball that goes off Phillips glove into center. Utley keeps running and ends up on 2nd.

[guttle11]

Inexcusable effort from Phillips. He's too good to just quit on a play.

[Big Klu]

Utley grounds a ball that goes off Phillips glove into center. Utley keeps running and ends up on 2nd.

How can that be a hit?! That's an E-4 all the way. Unbelievable scoring decision.

[Reds Fanatic]

Howard grounds out to short into the shift. 2 outs. Runner on 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Werth intentionally walked.

Bruntlett hitting for Dobbs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Werth steals 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruntlett strikes out swinging. 3-3 after 7.

Phillies have left 9 runners on tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Madson in to pitch.

Dickerson pinch hitting strikes out looking.

[Reds Fanatic]

Taveras attempts a bunt and Utley makes a good play on the out.

[jojo]

Taveras was out and it wasn't even that close. Utley is that good.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hairston strikes out swinging. 3-3 mid 8th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Feliz grounds to short. Hairston made a nice play to get to the ball but then throws off balance and wild. Feliz goes to 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruiz sacrifices the runner to 3rd. Stairs is pinch hitting.

[reds44]

We need a strikeout with David Weathers on the mound.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stairs walks on 4 pitches.

[oneupper]

We need a strikeout with David Weathers on the mound.

A pop up will do. /fingers crossed.

[reds44]

We need a double play with Rollins batting..

[SirFelixCat]

Nice throw/tag by Votto/Razor. Saved the game there.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rollins grounds to Votto. The runner breaks for home and Votto throws him out at the plate. 2 outs.

[guttle11]

Oh boy, he was safe, IMO.

[Reds Fanatic]

The Reds caught a break the runner was safe.

[Hoosier Red]

Ramon's lucky there, he did a terrible job of receiving the throw.

[Reds Fanatic]

Victorino grounds into a 4-6 FC. Phillies have now left 11 runners on base. 3-3 after 8.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lidge in to pitch. Mayberry in to play left and Bruntlett in at 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

That check swing call was ridiculous. This is a horrible umpiring crew.

[membengal]

These umps really have had a crappy night.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto lines a double to the right field corner.

[reds44]

Get him home.

[Hoosier Red]

man, I was about to make a joke about Phillips bunting. But Hey I'll take it.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips sacrifices the runner to 3rd. The ball was going foul but Howard fielded it and tagged Phillips. 1 out.

[guttle11]

Phillieszone must be imploding. Unclutch hitting, bad defense, might lose to the lowly Reds. The horror, the horror.

[Reds Fanatic]

Nix hitting for Gomes is intentionally walked.

[SirFelixCat]

Well I'll be!

[Reds Fanatic]

Hernandez singles to center. 4-3 Reds!!

[SirFelixCat]

Razor lines a single right up the middle. votto scores!

[NC Reds]

Ramon comes through.

[nate]

Holy smokes, a lead!

[11larkin11]

Ramon is great with RISP. That is why I have no problem with him continuing to be the everyday starting catcher. Its a good problem to have, folks.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce grounds into a 4-3 DP. 4-3 Reds mid 9th.

[Hoosier Red]

Okay CoCo you'll earn this one. Utley, Howard, Werth. No problem.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cordero coming in to face:

Utley, Howard and Werth

[SirFelixCat]

Bruce has got to find his swing.

[Reds Fanatic]

Utley flies out to right on the first pitch.

[Reds Fanatic]

Howard walks.

[Tom Servo]

Bruce has got to find his swing.
It's always where you least expect it.

[reds44]

Cordeo is using all of the park...

[Reds Fanatic]

Werth flies out to the edge of the warning track in right. 2 outs.

[Tom Servo]

VICTORY

[paintmered]

Reds win!

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruntlett grounds out to first. Reds win 4-3!!! :beerme:

[reds44]

Well, somehow we are back to .500...

[Red in Chicago]

The Reds won:laugh:

[KoryMac5]

This team is like a rubber ball they keep bouncing back.

[Reds Fanatic]

That is a big comeback win. After 2 straight blowouts the first 3 innings were bad and looked like another blowout was coming. Then Harang gets out of bases loaded with no outs and a runner on 3rd with no outs. Then with the 2 Phillips homers and the clutch Hernandez hit and the Reds get a nice win.

[Gallen5862]

"And This One Belongs To The Reds."

[nate]

Nice win tonight!

[BCubb2003]

Well, somehow we are back to .500...

In the last two games, the run differential is -20, but the Reds are .500.

[traderumor]

What a great win. What a courageous performance by Harang in the early innings to keep the game from getting away. :beerme:

[SirFelixCat]

Well, somehow we are back to .500...

This is so mind-numbingly surreal, too.

[oneupper]

Definitely NOT boring.

[HeatherC1212]

This team just does not give up! Wow, I'm impressed. Nice job guys!! :D

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Enormous win. Well done!

[BCubb2003]

Of course, we can't expect any momentum from this win, because there's no such thing as momentum with this team.

[REDREAD]

thanks for all the play by play guys. :)

[hebroncougar]

Great job........amazing who this team gets beat down, but seems to find a way.

[PuffyPig]

Looks like the windows to trade Harang and/or Arroyo for something of any value were slammed quite loudly.


Post of the night......

I would think that Harang stuck his foot in that door as it was closing.

Why would a team going for the playoffs want a horse to lead them? Harang showed what a staff leader needs to do to keep his team in the game. Gutsy performance, and the Reds rewarded him by winning tonight.

[traderumor]

Of course, we can't expect any momentum from this win, because there's no such thing as momentum with this team.Fortunately going both directions. They have won the game following the two worst beatdowns this year.

[VR]

Ugliest loss of the year last night, perhaps the best win of the year tonight.
Down 3-0 with no outs and the bases loaded in the 3rd....I don't think I was the only Redszoner thinking it was over. Very nice.

[Caveat Emperor]

In the last two games, the run differential is -20, but the Reds are .500.

Pythagoras Shrugged.

[Ron Madden]

Feliz grounds to short. Hairston made a nice play to get to the ball but then throws off balance and wild. Feliz goes to 2nd.


Seems to me if Edwin had made that bad throw instead of Hairston Marty would still be *****ing about it, and there would be 23 post here in the game thread echoing Martys wrath. ;)

[Ron Madden]

Ugliest loss of the year last night, perhaps the best win of the year tonight.
Down 3-0 with no outs and the bases loaded in the 3rd....I don't think I was the only Redszoner thinking it was over. Very nice.

You weren't alone VR. Very nice and very important comeback for the Reds.

:thumbup:

[GAC]

So.... are we the best .500 team in baseball? ;)

A solid effort by Aaron after giving up those back-to-back homers. BP with a two Hr night. Way to comeback boys after a very embarrassing loss the night before.

Now go out there and win the rubber game against last year's WS winners.

I've watch practically every game this year, and it amazes me that this team is .500. Other then Votto, and probably Phillips, there is no real offensive threat on this team. That player(s) that can carry a team.

We can complain and point out players like a Taveras, Hairston, and even EE; but the one player who has really disappointed me this year - and yes, I know he's still very young - is Bruce. Has he even had any type of a "hot spell" at all this year?

With Baker doing the lefty-right platoon thing with certain players, I don't understand why he hasn't done it with Bruce, who couldn't hit LH'd pitching if it was on a tee. I don't know if Jay just needs a few days off - which he'll get over the AS break - or what; but he can't be allowed to continue to struggle the way he has. Can he? Or do they just leave him alone and choke up the '09 season as part of the learning/maturation curve?

[lollipopcurve]

Tremendous win in a tough situation. Gotta give props to Harang and Phillips, two guys who are sometimes underappreciated on this board, in my opinion. The team needs these two more than is acknowledged.

On the down side, Hairston is not a major league SS -- his arm is about a pasture short. He's a utility player -- he needs to be used that way.

Looking forward to Bailey tonight.

[cumberlandreds]

If this team has anything its resilency (sp?). A nice win when it would have been easy to quit. As others have said this is a .500 team. The final total of wins will probably fall into the 78 to 83 range.
I'll be looking forward to Bailey tonight to see if he can follow up with another good effort.

[HokieRed]

Harang showed why a team that's going to stay in contention absolutely needs an experienced anchor. This is why others want him and why we--if we really think we have a chance--must keep him.

[jojo]

Harang showed why a team that's going to stay in contention absolutely needs an experienced anchor. This is why others want him and why we--if we really think we have a chance--must keep him.

Harang could have just as easily given up six runs if the game was replayed and he pitched exactly the same as he did last night.

Basically Harang threw strikes and things worked out. That's a good thing but it's not entirely a controllable thing......

[traderumor]

Harang could have just as easily given up six runs if the game was replayed and he pitched exactly the same as he did last night.

Basically Harang threw strikes and things worked out. That's a good thing but it's not entirely a controllable thing......Yea, that is all there is to pitching in the major leagues "throw strikes and sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't." Quite a minimalist way of looking at the game.

[HokieRed]

Experience may come down largely to what you've suggested, Jojo: throw strikes, let what happens happens, and block out all counterfactuals from your mind.

[nate]

Yea, that is all there is to pitching in the major leagues "throw strikes and sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't." Quite a minimalist way of looking at the game.

I read his post 10 times and nowhere did I see him say "all there is to pitching in the big leagues is throwing strikes and sometimes things work out." Quite honestly, I took his post to say that although the result was good, there's more to pitching than throwing strikes and hoping they hit the ball at someone.

[Falls City Beer]

I'm no huge Harang booster, and I see what jojo's saying to a certain extent, but honestly, I think Harang did a great job of controlling the variables last night--he K'd a decent number, and he didn't walk the universe, but was willing to pitch out of the zone when it benefitted him.

Obviously, the most important thing a pitcher can do above all else is throw strikes, which is what Harang did last night.

[WVRedsFan]

I think this is a correct observation. Harang will always have people hitting the ball in the air and in a place like Philadelphia's stadium, some of them will get out. Take away those two long balls and you have a shutout. I also thought Aaron was getting squeezed a little last night, but I always think that.

[jojo]

Yea, that is all there is to pitching in the major leagues "throw strikes and sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't." Quite a minimalist way of looking at the game.

Stranding runners isn't a repeatable skill for a pitcher. There were 11 base runners allowed while Harang was on the mound. Only 3 of them scored.

There is nothing minimalist with challenging the assertion that Harang did something repeatable by pitching out of a jam for a good portion of the night. A grounder a few feet to the left or right at the wrong time and who knows what crooked number could get put up?

My comment acknowledges the traffic on the base paths. He was hittable but it didn't lead to runs.

[TheNext44]

Stranding runners isn't a repeatable skill for a pitcher. There were 11 base runners allowed while Harang was on the mound. Only 3 of them scored.

There is nothing minimalist with challenging the assertion that Harang did something repeatable by pitching out of a jam for a good portion of the night. A grounder a few feet to the left or right at the wrong time and who knows what crooked number could get put up?

My comment acknowledges the traffic on the base paths. He was hittable but it didn't lead to runs.

I completely agree that pitchers usually perform the same with MOB as with them empty. And this is true for Harang generally as well.

However, Harang excels in pressure situations.

In all situations, batters post this line against Harang:

.270 .321 .446 .767

Very average.

With MOB, this line:

.261 .318 .423 .742

About the same.

But with a runner on third, this line:

.222 .292 .347 .639

With runners on first and third, this line:

.233 .256 .340 .596

With runners on second and third, this line:

.203 .313 .246 .560

With the bases loaded, this line:

.163 .170 .291 .461

These are all career numbers.

It looks to me like the tougher the situation, the better Harang pitches. This is not true for most pitchers. Most pitchers have very similar lines regardless of the situation, even TOR ones.

It appears that pitching well in tough situations is a repeatable action for Harang. Watching him for these past years suggests that, and it appears that the stats back that up as well.

[Falls City Beer]

Stranding runners isn't a repeatable skill for a pitcher. There were 11 base runners allowed while Harang was on the mound. Only 3 of them scored.

There is nothing minimalist with challenging the assertion that Harang did something repeatable by pitching out of a jam for a good portion of the night. A grounder a few feet to the left or right at the wrong time and who knows what crooked number could get put up?

My comment acknowledges the traffic on the base paths. He was hittable but it didn't lead to runs.

Maybe the Phils were hit-lucky last night? :)

[traderumor]

Stranding runners isn't a repeatable skill for a pitcher. There were 11 base runners allowed while Harang was on the mound. Only 3 of them scored.

There is nothing minimalist with challenging the assertion that Harang did something repeatable by pitching out of a jam for a good portion of the night. A grounder a few feet to the left or right at the wrong time and who knows what crooked number could get put up?

My comment acknowledges the traffic on the base paths. He was hittable but it didn't lead to runs.This worldview of baseball is indeed minimalist. It assigns most of what happens in any given game to randomness, whereby the pitcher chucks and ducks and the hitters hit and hope. What you said in your prior post really says nothing because one could look at all but a few major league pitchers and say that about most games--a few inches this way or that way on a hit ball. It seems like so much if/dog/rabbit analysis.

[jojo]

This worldview of baseball is indeed minimalist. It assigns most of what happens in any given game to randomness, whereby the pitcher chucks and ducks and the hitters hit and hope. What you said in your prior post really says nothing because one could look at all but a few major league pitchers and say that about most games--a few inches this way or that way on a hit ball. It seems like so much if/dog/rabbit analysis.

It may seem that way to some but show me a successful starting pitcher with a WHIP of 1.83....

What I said in my prior post speaks volumes.

[HokieRed]

Harang could have just as easily given up six runs if the game was replayed and he pitched exactly the same as he did last night.

Basically Harang threw strikes and things worked out. That's a good thing but it's not entirely a controllable thing......

These statements do speak volumes [though I don't know what's wrong with minimalism as an approach generally.]

1. Statement one, however, is strictly meaningless. Not a criticism, just a philosophical judgment. The game cannot be replayed. There is no pure repetition anywhere. All we know is what happened.

2. Statement two defines good pitching. Pitchers throw strikes and things either work out or do not. Pitchers can control some things. They cannot control everything. Probably learning to be a good pitcher is learning exactly this.

[jojo]

All we know is what happened.

At issue isn't what happened but the proper interpretation. It isn't meaningless to suggest that since stranding runners isn't a repeatable skill, the fact that 8 were stranded while Harang was on the mound last night is likely more a result of randomness than a skill no matter how much more appetizing the latter narrative might be...

On April 15, 2008 at Chicago, Harang pitched 6 innings while giving up 8 hits, allowing 2 homers, walking two, and striking out 6 while throwing a similar number of strikes as last night. He gave up 5 earned runs.

Two nights. Very similar performance. But one start is labeled as a quality start and the other labeled a poor outing.

He was hittable last night and he got away with it...

[lollipopcurve]

My comment acknowledges the traffic on the base paths.

It ignores the work he did in the 3rd with bases loaded and no outs -- the game was hanging in the balance. If you watched the game closely, you saw something beyond the random there.

I think minimalist was a nice choice of words by traderumor.