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View Full Version : Thoughts on Phillips to SS


travisgrimes
08-14-2009, 12:47 PM
I love this idea and don't see why everyone is so concerned on whether the guy can play the position. Until maybe 3-4 years ago when he was moved to 2B by the Indians, he was a SS and a damn good one at that. The only reason he was moved was because they have Peralta coming up and didn't think he could play 2nd. Phillips has the range, the arm, and the IQ to play SS because he has played there before. If he plays short next season, that allows Frazier to start at 2B for us all year and add another solid power bat without spending money.
CySeymour
08-14-2009, 01:10 PM
Remember, Frazier is only in AA. No one really has an idea if he can hit or defend at the MLB level. Let him get some time at AAA before annointing him the second baseman of the future.
redlegs2370
08-14-2009, 02:47 PM
I think this last part of the season makes for a perfect chance to experiment with Brandon at shortstop. I would rather do it now than wait until next spring and the beginning of the season then realize it isn't going to work there. Something I wish the Reds would have done with Adam Dunn at 1B.
texasdave
08-14-2009, 02:48 PM
Two words here: Pokey Reese.
CySeymour
08-14-2009, 02:52 PM
Two words here: Pokey Reese.

Meaning?
redlegs2370
08-14-2009, 02:55 PM
Two words here: Pokey Reese.

Pokey actually came up as a shortstop and was very good in the Reds minor leagues. He couldn't make it with the Reds at that position because of Larkin. They moved him to second and the 1999 team was very good up the middle.
GIDP
08-14-2009, 02:56 PM
Pokey Reese never had the bat Phillips has
redlegs2370
08-14-2009, 03:01 PM
Pokey Reese never had the bat Phillips has

Agree 100%!
GIDP
08-14-2009, 03:09 PM
Moving Phillips to SS all depends on if hes able to play above average D and how above average he can play.
texasdave
08-14-2009, 03:34 PM
Meaning Pokey Reese was the best fielding second baseman I have ever seen, certainly better than Brandon Phillips, and he could not transition to shortstop.
bgwilly31
08-14-2009, 04:06 PM
BP would be just fine at SS.

And even frazier isnt ready. Its much easier to find a 2b than it is a good SS.
Kingspoint
08-14-2009, 05:21 PM
Phillips can play great anywhere. It's just that there aren't any Shortstops available in the near future on the Free Agent market....BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANY FREE AGENT MONEY THANKS TO THE IDIOTIC SCOTT ROLEN TRADE!
Slyder
08-15-2009, 12:15 PM
I would love to see Phillips back at SS. He has the athletic ability to move back. Would he have the arm to play it? He would go from being a top 3 overall second basemen to a head above all the other SS, if he has the arm for it (I havent had a chance to see him play it). Its a risk worth taking, will the Reds or Duhhsty do it? Thats yet to be seen. It would make a huge hole much smaller if Phillips could stick at SS.
redlegs2370
08-15-2009, 12:49 PM
Phillips can play great anywhere. It's just that there aren't any Shortstops available in the near future on the Free Agent market....BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANY FREE AGENT MONEY THANKS TO THE IDIOTIC SCOTT ROLEN TRADE!

Because of the Scott Rolen trade it might be an easier transition to shortstop for BP. Rolen is athletic and gets to balls that many 3B don't get to.
NastyBoy
08-15-2009, 01:18 PM
I think Phillips is very capable of playing SS. I think what the reds are really looking for is a franchise SS. We have been spoiled by the likes of Davey Concepcion and Barry Larkin. I think the real question is he capable of being the franchise SS.
redlegs2370
08-15-2009, 02:28 PM
We have been spoiled by the likes of Davey Concepcion and Barry Larkin. I think the real question is he capable of being the franchise SS.

Your absolutely right we have been spoiled, just like the catchers position. Concepcion, Larkin, and Bench set such a standard it is very hard to achieve. That is why they are Hall of Fame caliber players.

I agree with you that the bottom line is he capable of being franchise SS. With Gonzo out & the Reds out of contention, what better way to see if BP is capable than to play him there the rest of the season.
Hondo
08-15-2009, 09:13 PM
I think he is a Gold Glove 2nd Baseman and he needs to stay there. This team needs to find a Starting ShortStop...

Not a Alex Gonazlez or a Jack Wilson... A guy this team can build around...
Slyder
08-16-2009, 12:50 AM
I think he is a Gold Glove 2nd Baseman and he needs to stay there. This team needs to find a Starting ShortStop...

Not a Alex Gonazlez or a Jack Wilson... A guy this team can build around...

Where do you find that kind of guy? Those kind of SS's never see the market cause teams like to hold on to those types. I mean look at the contracts that Gonzo and Wilson are coming off of. Second base is another story, you can usually find some downright good second basemen on Free Agency every year. Why not experiment and see if Phillips can handle it as a fall back plan in case you cannot find that "Starting shortstop" in the offseason?
Hondo
08-16-2009, 01:01 AM
Where do you find that kind of guy? Those kind of SS's never see the market cause teams like to hold on to those types. I mean look at the contracts that Gonzo and Wilson are coming off of. Second base is another story, you can usually find some downright good second basemen on Free Agency every year. Why not experiment and see if Phillips can handle it as a fall back plan in case you cannot find that "Starting shortstop" in the offseason?

Let me tell you a story....

I wish the Reds would have drafted Gordon Beckham instead of Yonder Alonso, because that guy is stroking the Ball and would be our Starting SS right now...

I hate the GM's and Scouts this team keeps around...
Slyder
08-16-2009, 01:08 AM
Let me tell you a story....

I wish the Reds would have drafted Gordon Beckham instead of Yonder Alonso, because that guy is stroking the Ball and would be our Starting SS right now...

I hate the GM's and Scouts this team keeps around...

Wasnt the one big knock that many people ? whether he'd stick at SS? Whats been his grade at SS?
Hondo
08-16-2009, 01:13 AM
Wasnt the one big knock that many people ? whether he'd stick at SS? Whats been his grade at SS?

Not sure but he was playing 3ed tonight... But my point is we have Votto, needed a SS/3B type hitter... Oh, went with the 1B... Not saying Alonso isnt going to be a hitter but we have Votto...

Beckam could be a Red right now... And I would have been fine with him at SS... But maybe the team thought Alex Gonzalez playing 168 Games out of his 3 year contract was the Future at SS for Cincy Baseball...
Slyder
08-16-2009, 01:49 AM
Not sure but he was playing 3ed tonight... But my point is we have Votto, needed a SS/3B type hitter... Oh, went with the 1B... Not saying Alonso isnt going to be a hitter but we have Votto...

Beckam could be a Red right now... And I would have been fine with him at SS... But maybe the team thought Alex Gonzalez playing 168 Games out of his 3 year contract was the Future at SS for Cincy Baseball...

I wont ever fault Gonzo's contract, there was no way of knowing that his kid would go through all that medical stuff Yr 1 and then the injury. I understood the signing at the time, pay a bit much? Ya, but how often do even average SS reach the market?

If he can't stick at SS then what good is Beckham with the Reds? He could become "just another Corner IF" which the Reds seem to have quite a few of.

Anyways thats all conjecture (myself included) as its not what happened. So back to the initial question...

Why not experiment with Phillips at SS and see if instead of needing a SS we could make it to where getting a 2b or ss would be a major upgrade? Considering the depth at 2b and lack there of at SS.
Hondo
08-16-2009, 01:55 AM
I wont ever fault Gonzo's contract, there was no way of knowing that his kid would go through all that medical stuff Yr 1 and then the injury. I understood the signing at the time, pay a bit much? Ya, but how often do even average SS reach the market?

If he can't stick at SS then what good is Beckham with the Reds? He could become "just another Corner IF" which the Reds seem to have quite a few of.

Anyways thats all conjecture (myself included) as its not what happened. So back to the initial question...

Why not experiment with Phillips at SS and see if instead of needing a SS we could make it to where getting a 2b or ss would be a major upgrade? Considering the depth at 2b and lack there of at SS.

What second baseman is available? They have already decided to let Jainsh play out the rest of the year ar SS so I dont think BP is going to be going in the whole anytime soon...
Slyder
08-16-2009, 02:02 AM
What second baseman is available? They have already decided to let Jainsh play out the rest of the year ar SS so I dont think BP is going to be going in the whole anytime soon...

Just took this thread for people to have fun and post their thoughts.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html

If that list is accurate....

Second basemen
Ronnie Belliard (35)
Jamey Carroll (36)
Alex Cora (34)
Craig Counsell (39)
Mark DeRosa (35)
David Eckstein (35)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
Orlando Hudson (32)
Akinori Iwamura (31)
Adam Kennedy (34)
Felipe Lopez (30)
Mark Loretta (38)
Pablo Ozuna (35)
Placido Polanco (34)
Freddy Sanchez (32)
Juan Uribe (31)

Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera (35)
Alex Cora (34)
Craig Counsell (39)
Bobby Crosby (30)
Adam Everett (33)
Chris Gomez (39)
Alex Gonzalez (32)
Khalil Greene (30)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (34)
John McDonald (35)
Marco Scutaro (34)
Miguel Tejada (36)
Omar Vizquel (43)
Jack Wilson (32)

*removed "options" for simplicity reasons.
NastyBoy
08-17-2009, 06:04 PM
Let me tell you a story....

I wish the Reds would have drafted Gordon Beckham instead of Yonder Alonso, because that guy is stroking the Ball and would be our Starting SS right now...

I hate the GM's and Scouts this team keeps around...

I picked up Gordon Beckham for my fantasy baseball team and he has been scorching the ball since the all star break.
NastyBoy
08-17-2009, 06:28 PM
Is there any reason that Todd Frazier can not play shortstop? He was an All-American in college at SS. Is the only reason because the Reds think he is too big and that will limit his defensive range? Cal Ripken is a pretty big guy and he ended up a good player.
GIDP
08-17-2009, 06:35 PM
they have never said he couldnt but Cal Ripken wasnt exactly a great SS defensively. I think the Reds would rather go the route of finding a GG type guy.
vottofan4life
08-17-2009, 07:31 PM
Magglio Ordonez for Bronson Arroyo and Willy Taveras seems like the only other trade the reds can make.

I can also see Johnny Gomes being traded to a contender maybe the Giants or Rockies for a prospect

This offseason COCO cordero needs to be traded to the Rays with Mike Lincoln and Cash for J.P. Howell,Reid Brignac,and Andy Sonnaistine
Hondo
08-17-2009, 09:46 PM
I picked up Gordon Beckham for my fantasy baseball team and he has been scorching the ball since the all star break.

Could you please take over the Reds Drafts?
Hondo
08-17-2009, 09:47 PM
Magglio Ordonez for Bronson Arroyo and Willy Taveras seems like the only other trade the reds can make.

I can also see Johnny Gomes being traded to a contender maybe the Giants or Rockies for a prospect

This offseason COCO cordero needs to be traded to the Rays with Mike Lincoln and Cash for J.P. Howell,Reid Brignac,and Andy Sonnaistine

Dude, I don't want any part of Ordonez for 2010... Thats a MONSTER contract...

I would trade Harang to the White Sox for Gordon Beckham! ;)