9/25: Reds vs Astros

[GAC]

Cincinnati

Season Avg
D. Stubbs cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .265
P. Janish ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .216
J. Votto 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .314
B. Phillips 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .280
J. Bruce rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .213
W. Balentien lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .268
J. Francisco 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .375
R. Hanigan c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .266
M. Maloney p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .222

Houston
Season Avg
M. Bourn cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .289
M. Tejada ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .304
L. Berkman 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .268
C. Lee lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .304
H. Pence rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .285
K. Matsui 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .252
J. Keppinger 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .258
C. Coste c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .225
B. Moehler p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .024

[mth123]

Hooray. Votto witha HR in the first. 1-0. Astros up with 2 outs in the first.

[mth123]

Maloney gets them 1-2-3. 1-0 Reds end of 1.

[GAC]

Can we reach .500?

Yeah, yeah...... I know ;)

[mth123]

Bruce Ks.

[GADawg]

ya think 'ole George knows Tejada well enough to call him "miggy"?

[mth123]

Wlad singles.

[HeatherC1212]

I call him Miggy when I talk about Tejada (followed him with the O's) but I wouldn't call him that to his face, LOL :laugh:

[kaldaniels]

How come the first post of this thread reads 804 pm? It wasn't here then.

[mth123]

Francisco singles.

[GADawg]

Grande likes to do that kind of thing...J.L. Cruz, Coco Cordero, Jimmy Riggleman, etc..etc..

[kaldaniels]

Grande likes to do that kind of thing...J.L. Cruz, Coco Cordero, Jimmy Riggleman, etc..etc..

Its because he's super-duper friends with all of them...duh.

[GAC]

How come the first post of this thread reads 804 pm? It wasn't here then.

That is the time I SUBMITTED it for mod approval. It then waits for them to post it. They're slackards! :p:

[mth123]

Hanigan GO 3-1. Runners to 2nd and 3rd for Maloney.

[kaldaniels]

That is the time I SUBMITTED it for mod approval. It then waits for them to post it. They're slackards! :p:

Got it...was just curious here.

[mth123]

Maloney battling

[mth123]

Maloney walks. Stubbs with them loaded.

[Brutus]

That was the last thing Moehler wanted to do, I imagine (walking Maloney to load the bases with two outs).

[HeatherC1212]

Great at bat by Maloney! Wow, I hope some of the other guys in the dugout watched how Matt did that, LOL :laugh:

[Raisor]

Rolen with back issues.

Welcome to next year!

;)

[mth123]

Stubbs beats out a roller to SS. Run scores.

[HeatherC1212]

Great job by Drew! :D

[GAC]

Chat is open!

Stubbs beats out what should have been a routine play, and the Reds get another run.

What a breath of fresh air Stubbs is.

[GAC]

Rolen with back issues.

Welcome to next year!

;)

We'll resign EE to back him up ;)

[Brutus]

Stubbs for Heisman.

[mth123]

Janish with a big hit. 3-0 Still loaded for Joey.

[HeatherC1212]

Janish delivers and now Joey is up with the bases loaded!! :D :D :D

[HeatherC1212]

Hehe, Joey strikes fear in the heart of the Astros. ;)

[GAC]

Votto dbls. 6-0 Reds

[mth123]

Votto doubles and three score.

[HeatherC1212]

JOEY!!!!!!!! Wow, what awesome insanity in this inning, LOL :laugh: :lol:

Dangit, why is my fantasy team done for the year?! These last few weeks Joey would have netted me SOOOO many points all by himself, LOL :lol:

[VR]

I love when they throw down the 2-out hammer. Absolutely love it.

[Brutus]

Votto has been on an absolute tear the past few weeks. He's been a wrecking crew in that 3-hole. And amazingly, he's actually had more guys to drive-in recently.

[GAC]

62 pitches for Moeller thru two innings.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I just KNEW I should've gone to tonights game! Dang it!

Well, it looks like we brought the hot bats with us to H-Town. :O)

Pretty sure I'll go to tomorrow night's game.

[mth123]

Lee Grounds to SS. 1 out.

[VR]

Votto has been on an absolute tear the past few weeks. He's been a wrecking crew in that 3-hole. And amazingly, he's actually had more guys to drive-in recently.

Too bad he's putting up big numbers when the Reds are out of it. ;)

[mth123]

Matsui Homers. 6-1.

[Brutus]

Too bad he's putting up big numbers when the Reds are out of it. ;)

lol he carried the team in April and May too.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Matsui...dinger.

I haven't seen the roof open here too often, but the ball carries VERY well when it is open.

[WVRedsFan]

Maloney will give up the long ball, just like that other Maloney back in the 60's.

[mth123]

GO to SS, inning over.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Let's see if we can contain Kepp. 2 dingers last time we met in one game.

Grounds out to Janish to end the inning. 6-1 good guys

[mth123]

Maloney will give up the long ball, just like that other Maloney back in the 60's.

Except for the 10 MPH difference on the fastball.

[GADawg]

all things considered I think I'm signing up for Paul Janish at ss for next season....never would've thought I'd say that...let's just hope that he continues to work hard this offseason as he apparently did last year

[_Sir_Charles_]

Aggressive...but he was TOAST. Lucky that the ball got away. 2 bagger for Bruce.

[WVRedsFan]

Except for the 10 MPH difference on the fastball.

Yeah, and Matt throws with the other hand. And Jim came from SoCal while Matt came from Sandusky. Enough!

Jay now goes the other way for another hit and nearly has an error in judgment, but is safe at 2nd.

[Kc61]

Bruce has had some nice swings lately. That time he served it out to the opposite field and then stretched to a double. Now he moves to third on a ground out by Balentien.

[mth123]

Yeah, and Matt throws with the other hand. And Jim came from SoCa while Matt came from Sandusky. Enough!

Jay now goes the other way for another hit and nearly has an error in judgment, but is safe at 2nd.

Jim Maloney only gave up .7 HR/9. Matt has given up 9 in about 35 IP.

[mth123]

Cisco!!!!!

[_Sir_Charles_]

San Francisco with a treat. :O)

Single for the Ribbie.

[HeatherC1212]

I'm impressed with Juan's approach in this game. He seems to be taking advantage of his chance to play a full game tonight. :)

[WVRedsFan]

Jim Maloney only gave up .7 HR/9. Matt has given up 9 in about 35 IP.

You know, back in those days (I think I was 13 in 1964), I didn't pay much attention to anything but strikeouts and wins. I used to remember one of the old timers who used to watch games with Dad and I in those day say, "typical Maloney--walk two and strike out three."

[_Sir_Charles_]

Moehler's been throwing the ball well lately without much success...not tonight though. Pretty pedestrian stuff. And with that...he's toast. Bullpen time.

[mth123]

Francisco/Gomes for the LF platoon in 2010. Cisco can spot in at 3B once in a while to get Gomes more ABs.

[Brutus]

Francisco will soon be the Reds' cleanup hitter. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in 2010... but soon.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I agree that Juan's looked good so far. But he's still VERY susceptible to the breaker. He looks VERY bad on the big curveball IMO.

[mth123]

You know, back in those days (I think I was 13 in 1964), I didn't pay much attention to anything but strikeouts and wins. I used to remember one of the old timers who used to watch games with Dad and I in those day say, "typical Maloney--walk two and strike out three."

Jim Maloney is the all time best Reds pitcher since 1950. Maybe ever.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Nosirree. :-(

[GAC]

I just KNEW I should've gone to tonights game! Dang it!

Well, it looks like we brought the hot bats with us to H-Town. :O)

Pretty sure I'll go to tomorrow night's game.

If we lose tomorrow we're blaming you then. ;)

[_Sir_Charles_]

If we lose tomorrow we're blaming you then. ;)

I expected no less. :D

Still not sure if I'm going though. We'll see.

[WVRedsFan]

Jim Maloney is the all time best Reds pitcher since 1950. Maybe ever.

No doubt about it. One of my all-time favorite players. We haven't had a pitcher like that since he left. When you look at that staff from 1961 to 1964, you had a knuckleballer (Purkey), a crafty lefty (O'Toole), a junkball pitcher (Jay) and Maloney. Maloney was the best of the bunch and has the no-hitters to prove it. I defy anyone to find anyone with Maloney's effectiveness in a similar period on the Reds.

[_Sir_Charles_]

LOL. FSN houston is showing the Reds rookies in the hotel wearing halloween costumes (rookie hazings). They're all dressed like girls. Homer looked quite cute in a pink top. :O) Freaking hilarious!

[_Sir_Charles_]

Nice curve from Maloney there.

[GAC]

This Maloney tonight ain't doing too bad. ;)

[WVRedsFan]

LOL. FSN houston is showing the Reds rookies in the hotel wearing halloween costumes (rookie hazings). They're all dressed like girls. Homer looked quite cute in a pink top. :O) Freaking hilarious!You guys get interesting stuff like that and we get George and Chris blabbing about nothing over and over. And over.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Tejada grounds out to the cannon-wielding Janish. What a gun that kid's got. I'd love it if his bat can hold it's own.

[HeatherC1212]

LOL. FSN houston is showing the Reds rookies in the hotel wearing halloween costumes (rookie hazings). They're all dressed like girls. Homer looked quite cute in a pink top. :O) Freaking hilarious!

FSN Ohio showed it too and I was laughing so hard I nearly missed who all was there. :laugh: I'm still not sure of a couple of the guys but they looked hilarious. Homer looked so funny in that pink hat but Drew Stubbs was my favorite. Gotta love the rookie hazing on the last road trip! :D

[_Sir_Charles_]

You guys get interesting stuff like that and we get George and Chris blabbing about nothing over and over. And over.

Frilly red top and blonde wig for Maloney. :O) Yep, MUCH better than George & Chris. hehe.

[HeatherC1212]

You guys get interesting stuff like that and we get George and Chris blabbing about nothing over and over. And over.

They showed it on Reds Live pregame and then they showed parts of it again VERY early in the game. I hope they show it again because it was SOOOO funny! :D

[_Sir_Charles_]

Matt sits down after striking out looking

[_Sir_Charles_]

Wright's looking good so far. Back to back K's as Stubbs goes down.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Hey, if I'm gonna jinx anybody...it should be Houston's guys. :O) 4 pitch walk to Janish

[_Sir_Charles_]

Awww....I thought it was another hit for Joey. But the ball bounces right off Berkman's mitt to Matsui. End of the inning.

[HeatherC1212]

Joey slacks off and makes out #3, although that would have been funny if that ball had gone off Berkman and into right field, LOL :laugh:

[Kc61]

I agree that Juan's looked good so far. But he's still VERY susceptible to the breaker. He looks VERY bad on the big curveball IMO.

He just turned 22. He adjusted to AA and then blew away both AA and AAA. He's hitting .500 with an .800 slugging pct in his major league start. I think he deserves a couple of months to adjust to big curveballs.

The Astros announcers said that strikeouts are his bugaboo. They couldn't be more wrong.

JF's special ability is to make contact -- for a power hitter. In the last two seasons, his strikeout percentage has been quite low for a power guy. He doesn't walk much, which is a deficiency, but he compensates by making contact frequently for a power hitter.

I think JF is going to be an all star player in the major leagues. I hope the Reds stick with him. He has fairly unusual abilities -- but as we saw in that last at bat, a two strike hit to knock in a run, he has the knack of hitting the baseball with authority, he does it often, and that's a great thing for a young player.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Man, what a nice change of pace. Berkman has really stuggled against us this year. It's really odd to see. But I'll take it. :O)

[_Sir_Charles_]

I like Juan's upside too. But I also think he could use a full season at AAA to work on that very thing.

[mth123]

No doubt about it. One of my all-time favorite players. We haven't had a pitcher like that since he left. When you look at that staff from 1961 to 1964, you had a knuckleballer (Purkey), a crafty lefty (O'Toole), a junkball pitcher (Jay) and Maloney. Maloney was the best of the bunch and has the no-hitters to prove it. I defy anyone to find anyone with Maloney's effectiveness in a similar period on the Reds.

Medicine in 1970 is a lot different than now. If his injury had occurred with today's technology, he'd have been patched up and pitched 10 more years and might be a HOFer. He would have been an ace on the Big Red Machine.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Francisco 'ole. Yuck.

Horrible fundamentals on that routine groundball.

[Tom Servo]

Man, what a nice change of pace. Berkman has really stuggled against us this year. It's really odd to see. But I'll take it. :O)
We should try and pick him up on the cheap. :thumbup:

[HeatherC1212]

Hmm, they better work on him in LF pretty hard this offseason. Maloney says 'No problem" about the error and gets the next guy to ground out. ;)

[_Sir_Charles_]

We should try and pick him up on the cheap. :thumbup:

If by "on the cheap" you mean "half our payroll" then I'd agree. :O) That's about what it would take. Berkman's not going anywhere anytime soon. But it's nice to dream. *grin*

[Kc61]

I like Juan's upside too. But I also think he could use a full season at AAA to work on that very thing.

I agree and he needs to work in left field. He just made an error at third and he just seems too big to be a third baseman.

But I love this kid at the plate.

I see him playing six weeks at AAA and then joining the Reds as a backup at several positions. Then it will be up to him to prove himself a regular.

Astros announcers on the JF error say that Rolen makes that play if he leaves his glove in the dugout. They are right, of course.

[WVRedsFan]

Medicine in 1970 is a lot different than now. If his injury had occurred with today's technology, he'd have been patched up and pitched 10 more years and might be a HOFer. He would have been an ace on the Big Red Machine.Absolutely. Wow, imagine a healthy Maloney on the BRM. They might have won 120 games and won multiple world titles.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I've seen Wright several times this year and this is the best I've seen him... BY FAR.

[Kc61]

It seems clear to me that Maloney is a major league pitcher. Cincy may not be the best fit, but this guy has graduated from AAA IMO.

He throws a lot of fly balls, but he has good control and is deceptive. He keeps the hitters off balance a lot of them get fooled.

Last off season I pulled Maloney off my top prospects list. I wasn't happy with him. He's back on.

[mth123]

Bruuuuuce.

[HeatherC1212]

BRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCE!!!! :jump:

I don't know for sure but I think Jay might be seeing the ball better?! ;)

[_Sir_Charles_]

And the jinx works!!! BRUUUUUUUUCE! :jump:

[_Sir_Charles_]

Wow...Man, does Juan ever swing HARD!

[Kc61]

Watching Votto, Bruce and Francisco hit tonight, the NL Central had better load up with lefties. These three can do some major damage.

Francsico against a lefty. Let's see how he does. Base hit. Guy is unreal.

[mth123]

Cisco singles again.

[_Sir_Charles_]

3 hits for Juan tonight! Single to right center

[Brutus]

He just turned 22. He adjusted to AA and then blew away both AA and AAA. He's hitting .500 with an .800 slugging pct in his major league start. I think he deserves a couple of months to adjust to big curveballs.

The Astros announcers said that strikeouts are his bugaboo. They couldn't be more wrong.

JF's special ability is to make contact -- for a power hitter. In the last two seasons, his strikeout percentage has been quite low for a power guy. He doesn't walk much, which is a deficiency, but he compensates by making contact frequently for a power hitter.

I think JF is going to be an all star player in the major leagues. I hope the Reds stick with him. He has fairly unusual abilities -- but as we saw in that last at bat, a two strike hit to knock in a run, he has the knack of hitting the baseball with authority, he does it often, and that's a great thing for a young player.

Well, I wouldn't quite go so far to say he makes contact frequently - even for a power hitter. He did strikeout over 21% of his PA's this year in the minors. That's still above average. Yes, you are correct, that it's not 25, 28 and 30% like some sluggers. But I would not categorize it as making contact frequently, per se.

I agree with you on most everything else. I think the kid has a bright future ahead of him if he stays disciplined as a hitter. His raw power is enough to compensate for having a lower walk rate, so long as it's within reason. He could well be a great hitter. Your points are mostly on-target. I just would not necessarily make it out to be like he's had no trouble making contact.

[_Sir_Charles_]

1st and 3rd after Hanigan with a solid ab resulting in a single to right center

[Kc61]

Let's see. From the left side the Reds have Votto, Bruce, Francisco, Alonso. From the right side there's Phillips, Rolen, Stubbs. Maybe Frazier.

I think one more righty hitter should do the trick. Fairly exciting actually.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Maloney grounds out to Matsui to end the inning. 8-1 Redlegs

[Tom Servo]

Let's see. From the left side the Reds have Votto, Bruce, Francisco, Alonso. From the right side there's Phillips, Rolen, Stubbs. Maybe Frazier.

I think one more righty hitter should do the trick. Fairly exciting actually.
No love for Gomes?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Let's see. From the left side the Reds have Votto, Bruce, Francisco, Alonso. From the right side there's Phillips, Rolen, Stubbs. Maybe Frazier.

I think one more righty hitter should do the trick. Fairly exciting actually.

In theory...it looks good. I just don't see Alonso fitting into that mix. I don't think the Reds want to move Phillips to short just like I don't think they're going to want to move Votto to left. Alonso's going to be a man without a position on the big club. Odd man out and major trade bait IMO.

On second look, I'm not sure where those guys you listed would play. Rolen...3rd. Juan...? Left? Votto & Yonder...? Just curious.

[Kc61]

Well, I wouldn't quite go so far to say he makes contact frequently - even for a power hitter. He did strikeout over 21% of his PA's this year in the minors. That's still above average. Yes, you are correct, that it's not 25, 28 and 30% like some sluggers. But I would not categorize it as making contact frequently, per se.

I agree with you on most everything else. I think the kid has a bright future ahead of him if he stays disciplined as a hitter. His raw power is enough to compensate for having a lower walk rate, so long as it's within reason. He could well be a great hitter. Your points are mostly on-target. I just would not necessarily make it out to be like he's had no trouble making contact.

Respectfully disagree on the strikeouts. For a guy with his power, 21 percent is a very good number. Look at guys like Mark Reynolds and Adam Dunn. Much higher.

In addition, Francisco doesn't walk much. His 21 percent includes a lot of bad pitches that other guys take. I'm not lauding him for swinging at bad pitches, but given his overall profile (huge power, low walks) that 21 percent number is quite good.

In the minors, his RBI totals were consistently high. I think this is because he gets the bat on the ball so much.

Again, I'm not comparing him to slap hitters with very low K totals. But when you look at the huge power potential, well, you see what I mean.

He also has shown me so far that he will use the whole stadium. Tonight he has three ground ball or line drive singles, including an RBI with two strikes. Impressive for a big guy. So it's not just big swing after big swing.

Frankly, tonight, I'm most impressed with Bruce's swings. Much better than when he struggled earlier. It's fun to watch the Reds hit and play well, isn't it?

[Tony Cloninger]

I still think they keep Gomes. How much could he actually get in arbitration? His numbers ate decent but not bank breaking.

[HeatherC1212]

Juan about coming out of his shoes to start running to 1B on that single was the funniest thing I've seen all day and I REALLY needed to laugh after a tough week! Thanks Juan. :laugh:

[_Sir_Charles_]

'Stros top prospect Manzella K's. Really nice start from Maloney tonight. He's really locating well and changing speeds effectively.

[Kc61]

I wonder if Maloney realizes how important this start is to him. Anyone watching this will want this guy. A big deceptive lefty, strikes guys out, good control.

Reds patience with him is paying off.

[corkedbat]

Well, I wouldn't quite go so far to say he makes contact frequently - even for a power hitter. He did strikeout over 21% of his PA's this year in the minors. That's still above average. Yes, you are correct, that it's not 25, 28 and 30% like some sluggers. But I would not categorize it as making contact frequently, per se.

I agree with you on most everything else. I think the kid has a bright future ahead of him if he stays disciplined as a hitter. His raw power is enough to compensate for having a lower walk rate, so long as it's within reason. He could well be a great hitter. Your points are mostly on-target. I just would not necessarily make it out to be like he's had no trouble making contact.

I love watching Francisco, but wonder if he can play decent enough D in LF (I don't see him as a 3B). If he sticks around, his power definitely pushes its way into the lineup. If some AL team takes a shine to him as a possible DH though, I might be tempted by a young SS or SP if they did. I also am curious to see if he gets a LF start before the season ends.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I wonder if Maloney realizes how important this start is to him. Anyone watching this will want this guy. A big deceptive lefty, strikes guys out, good control.

Reds patience with him is paying off.

I'm certainly in no hurry to deal him off. Yes, he's a flyball pitcher...but even in GABP those can be successful. This rotation could certainly use a servicable lefty.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Stubbs beats out yet another groundball.

[HeatherC1212]

Wow, I leave the computer for two minutes and there's two on, nobody out and Joey is up again. :eek:

[Brutus]

Respectfully disagree on the strikeouts. For a guy with his power, 21 percent is a very good number. Look at guys like Mark Reynolds and Adam Dunn. Much higher.

In addition, Francisco doesn't walk much. His 21 percent includes a lot of bad pitches that other guys take. I'm not lauding him for swinging at bad pitches, but given his overall profile (huge power, low walks) that 21 percent number is quite good.

In the minors, his RBI totals were consistently high. I think this is because he gets the bat on the ball so much.

Again, I'm not comparing him to slap hitters who don't fan much. But when you look at the huge power potential, well, you see what I mean.

He also has shown me so far that he will use the whole stadium. Tonight he has three ground ball or line drive singles, including an RBI with two strikes. Impressive for a big guy. So it's not just big swing after big swing.

Frankly, tonight, I'm most impressed with Bruce's swings. Much better than when he struggled earlier. It's fun to watch the Reds hit and play well, isn't it?

You're using a couple of extreme examples to hold him to a lower standard.

Truth is, the last three seasons, the average 1B has a 20% strikeout rate. The average LF has about a 17% strikeout rate. Francisco's career minor league rate is higher than both the average slugger positions in the majors. It's nothing to sneeze at, but it's also not an attribute that is credit-worthy.

21% is not good. Mark Reynolds and Adam Dunn are two players that have basically been among the highest strikeout rates ever to play the game. Using them as examples is not prudent. They are outliers and nothing more.

I'm not busting on the guy. But 21% is still not a great strikeout rate.

[HeatherC1212]

*whew* That was lucky to only be one out! :eek:

[_Sir_Charles_]

Stubbs caught a HUGE break there. Why was he even heading towards third there?

[oneupper]

Tejada showing his age (whatever that is) at short. Stubbs has made him look bad twice already.

[_Sir_Charles_]

IF single for Phillips. Little topper to third...no chance to get Brandon.

[Kc61]

I love watching Francisco, but wonder if he can play decent enough D in LF (I don't see him as a 3B). If he sticks around, his power definitely pushes its way into the lineup. If some AL team takes a shine to him as a possible DH though, I might be tempted by a young SS or SP if they did. I also am curious to see if he gets a LF start before the season ends.

Problem is that Alonso and Votto play the exact same position and neither seems destined to move. So if the Reds are going to trade a hitter, it is likely Alonso.

Francisco probably can play left field. I think his future is as a left fielder who can backup at third or first.

And, look, it's possible that with time Francisco can get better at third. He seems big for the position IMO, maybe doesn't move quite well enough to stay there. Reds want him to learn left field, which makes sense.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Bases jacked for Bruce...who promptly K's.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Wlad delivers! 2 run single to right center. Double digit runs 3 out of 4 games! 10-1 and I'm REAAAAAAALLY regretting not going to tonights game. *sigh*

[HeatherC1212]

Wlad gets two more runs in with hit to right center. Everyone is joining the hit parade! :D

[HeatherC1212]

Wlad delivers! 2 run single to right center. Double digit runs 3 out of 4 games! 10-1 and I'm REAAAAAAALLY regretting not going to tonights game. *sigh*

That score could be reversed if you had gone to the game tonight though ;) and I only say that as someone who has all ready been to three blowout Reds losses just this year, LOL :laugh:

[Kc61]

You're using a couple of extreme examples to hold him to a lower standard.

Truth is, the last three seasons, the average 1B has a 20% strikeout rate. The average LF has about a 17% strikeout rate. Francisco's career minor league rate is higher than both the average slugger positions in the majors. It's nothing to sneeze at, but it's also not an attribute that is credit-worthy.

21% is not good. Mark Reynolds and Adam Dunn are two players that have basically been among the highest strikeout rates ever to play the game. Using them as examples is not prudent. They are outliers and nothing more.

I'm not busting on the guy. But 21% is still not a great strikeout rate.

I don't think the best way to look at it is as a function of position. There are a lot of different types of hitters in left and at first. The average strikeout rate for a position doesn't mean much to me.

The better way, I think, is to look at power production and compare K rates. I would expect that guys with big power production tend to have the higher rates.

Some of the big power producers strike out 25 to 30 percent of official at bats. My point is that JF doesn't walk as much as some, but compensates with a lower K rate for a power man. That's what makes him so interesting to me.

[HeatherC1212]

YESSIREE!! :D

[HokieRed]

Just got here. Great to see all the hitting but Maloney's work is just as interesting and important to the future. Seems like the most effective he's been. Anything in particular he's doing that accounts for that?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Just really locating his pitches well. Mixing it up well too.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Hanigan HBP. Just grazed on the pant leg.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Maloney for leadoff!!! :O) 3 for 12 with a walk.

[HeatherC1212]

OK, now it's just getting ridiculous, LOL :laugh:

[_Sir_Charles_]

Stubbs pops out with 2 on.

[HeatherC1212]

I guess with a 9 run lead it's okay to take your sure handed SS out of the game. Hmmm. :eek:

Awww, now Joey gets taken out of the game too. Why should I watch anymore!?!? LOL ;)

[redsmetz]

one hit away from equaling their best total for the season, so says Marty.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Sutton ph'ing...singles up the middle. Bases jacked...hmmmm, who's coming up again?

Aaaarrrrggghhh! Barker Ph'ing for Vottomatic. Fire Baker! :O) just kidding.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Pretty DP there. Barker hits us out of the bases loaded chance. Shoot.

If Votto had come to the plate, the Astros were bound to walk him intentionally I'm sure. *grin*

[Kc61]

Interesting to see how Maloney handles the seventh and possibly eighth inning.

[HeatherC1212]

Sutton ph'ing...singles up the middle. Bases jacked...hmmmm, who's coming up again?

Aaaarrrrggghhh! Barker Ph'ing for Vottomatic. Fire Baker! :O) just kidding.

I have no problem storming the dugout over this, especially after that double play, LOL ;)

[Kc61]

BTW, I think Sutton is a factor for next year's bench. He's played quite well, switch hits, plays several positions. Pretty good pickup.

[_Sir_Charles_]

ROFL! :)


~edit~ At Heather...not the Sutton reference. I agree with that one. Thanks for the laugh H.

[HokieRed]

His pitch count looks good. Gameday has him at 73.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Nice gun there from Francisco. If his footwork allows it, he's certainly got the arm for third.

[Brutus]

I don't think the best way to look at it is as a function of position. There are a lot of different types of hitters in left and at first. The average strikeout rate for a position doesn't mean much to me.

The better way, I think, is to look at power production and compare K rates. I would expect that guys with big power production tend to have the higher rates.

Some of the big power producers strike out 25 to 30 percent of official at bats. My point is that JF doesn't walk as much as some, but compensates with a lower K rate for a power man. That's what makes him so interesting to me.

That's a fair way of looking at it. However, even by that standard, his walk-to-strikeout ratio is far worse than most of those same sluggers you mentioned. So he's not even striking out that much less relative to how much he's walking.

His career walk to K ratio is .16 in the minors. That's awful. Compare that to some of the sluggers you want to use this standard against:

Albert Pujols - OK he's a freak of nature, but still (1.80 in 2009)
Carlos Pena (0.53)
Prince Fielder (0.77)
Mark Reynolds (0.38)
Ryan Howard (0.39)
Adam Dunn (0.66)
Russell Branyan (0.39)
Nelson Cruz (0.42)
Justin Upton (0.42)

And these were the best sluggers I could find (outside of Pujols) with some of the worst rates. I am not even including a whole lot of good sluggers with rates around .7 or .8.

Look at this list and you'll see that Francisco is twice as low a BB-K rate as the lowest guys on the list. Almost three times taking his .16 career rate into account.

For context, not a SINGLE qualified hitter in the majors right now has a BB-K rate as low as Francisco's minor league career. None. Not one. That's 156 players. His career rates put him in the company right now with guys like Aaron Rowand, Clint Barmes, Jeff Francouer, Kevin Kouzmanoff, etc. more than they put him in the company of Adam Dunn, Mark Reynolds or Ryan Howard.

Granted, his power is undeniable. But even by the standard you're using, it does not measure up to what you're suggesting.

I like the guy. Let me make it clear that I think his power will eventually win out. And you're right that he does not strike out a ton, relative to a few of the "swing from the heels" guys in the majors. But make no mistake, no matter how we judge it, he still strikes out a lot - not a ton, but enough to be considered less than average.

[HokieRed]

BTW, I think Sutton is a factor for next year's bench. He's played quite well, switch hits, plays several positions. Pretty good pickup.

Agree. He has hit a lot of balls very hard recently, even when he's made outs. I think he'll hit a good number of HR's to LCF in GABP.

[HeatherC1212]

ROFL! :)

~edit~ At Heather...not the Sutton reference. I agree with that one. Thanks for the laugh H.

No problem. I honestly thought Joey was going to be one of the only reasons for me to watch games through these last few weeks of the season but the entire team has been playing quite well. It's been fun to watch but I don't like baseball as much when Joey is on the bench, LOL :laugh:

ITA about Sutton. He's handled himself quite well and I'd love to see him as part of the bench next year. :)

[_Sir_Charles_]

First real meatball served up by Maloney there to Matsui. Slow bender right over the heart of the plate.

Now he's WAY high. Might be time to start the pen warming up. He looks to be tiring.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Linedrive off the LF wall. Kepp held to a single though.

Yeah, I think Matt's spent.

[Kc61]

That's a fair way of looking at it. However, even by that standard, his walk-to-strikeout ratio is far worse than most of those same sluggers you mentioned. So he's not even striking out that much less relative to how much he's walking.

His career walk to K ratio is .16 in the minors. That's awful. Compare that to some of the sluggers you want to use this standard against:

Albert Pujols - OK he's a freak of nature, but still (1.80 in 2009)
Carlos Pena (0.53)
Prince Fielder (0.77)
Mark Reynolds (0.38)
Ryan Howard (0.39)
Adam Dunn (0.66)
Russell Branyan (0.39)
Nelson Cruz (0.42)
Justin Upton (0.42)

And these were the best sluggers I could find (outside of Pujols) with some of the worst rates. I am not even including a whole lot of good sluggers with rates around .7 or .8.

Look at this list and you'll see that Francisco is twice as low a BB-K rate as the lowest guys on the list. Almost three times taking his .16 career rate into account.

.


Two responses. If you're talking BB to K rate, then Francisco suffers by the low number of walks. My point is that he compensates for the walks, in part, but clearly his walks are low. I'd rather look at K to at bat rates.

Also, looking at JF's minor league career numbers is, IMO, not a very fair measure. His first full year at Dayton, at age 19-20, he fanned over 160 times as I recall. That year skews his numbers. He then dramatically improved the last two seasons.

Compare his K/at bat rates for the last two seasons and his numbers are far more favorable.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Sac fly to Stubbs. 10-2

[HeatherC1212]

One more out Matt....you can do it! :)

[_Sir_Charles_]

"Maloney's an Ohio kid. Sandusky, just outside of Columbus" :O) Astros announcers DO know their Buckeye geography. *grin*

[_Sir_Charles_]

Ramon Ramirez warming up.

[HeatherC1212]

That is HILARIOUS that they dropped the rookies off at the other end of the mall so they had to walk all the way to the hotel in those dresses!! :lol:

YAY for Matt tonight! Nice job. :)

[_Sir_Charles_]

Big K to end the inning. Great outing by Matt. Absolutely solid! He should be done though. 10-2 good guys.

[HeatherC1212]

"Maloney's an Ohio kid. Sandusky, just outside of Columbus" :O) Astros announcers DO know their Buckeye geography. *grin*

Wow, I didn't know I only live two hours away from Cedar Point.....LOL :lol:

[Brutus]

Two responses. If you're talking BB to K rate, then Francisco suffers by the low number of walks. My point is that he compensates for the walks, in part, but clearly his walks are low. I'd rather look at K to at bat rates.

Also, looking at JF's minor league career numbers is, IMO, not a very fair measure. His first full year at Dayton he fanned over 160 times as I recall. That year skews his numbers. He then dramatically improved the last two seasons.

Compare his K/at bat rates for the last two seasons and his numbers are far more favorable.

I already mentioned the .21 this year. Even the .21 would be second-worst in all the majors right now of qualified players. So even ignoring what he's done in the past, his rate is still almost twice as low as guys like Dunn, Reynolds, Howard, etc.

Your point was his lower strikeout totals compensate for the lack of walks somewhat. But since BB-K ratio uses only those two numbers, this suggests that's not the case at all. In fact, he's faring even worse when looking at these two numbers in isolation.

The strikeouts are still on the high side. They're not problematic, but short of improving his walk rate, the guy will definitely have to continue to cut down on them even more if he wants to be successful. If he does either (or both), no doubt about it - he will be one of arguably the best sluggers in the game. But he does definitely need to do at least one or the other.

[HokieRed]

92 pitches.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Tim Byrdak in.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Ground ball to third...Kepp airmails it to Berkman. Ruled an error.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Adam Rosales pinch running.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Bruce takes the free pass. 1st & 2nd with 0 outs. Wlad up.

[_Sir_Charles_]

MAN! What a catch! Wlad tosses his bat and it goes PAST the dugout...fan snags it.

[HeatherC1212]

We may have a full out Louisville squad out there soon, LOL :laugh:

Great catch by the guy in the crowd! :eek:

[_Sir_Charles_]

Wlad ends up whiffing.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Juan pops out to Bourne. 2 down. Hanigan up.

~edit~ Tatum Ph'ing. Flies out to right to end the inning.

[HeatherC1212]

Wow, we haven't had a big blowout game since...oh, like Tuesday or Wednesday so I guess we were due for another one, LOL :laugh:

[Degenerate39]

I wonder what kind of numbers Votto would've put up had he not missed a month of playing time

[HeatherC1212]

I think Hanigan just gave the security guy a bat for the fan in the crowd. That's cool. :)

[Kc61]

I already mentioned the .21 this year. Even the .21 would be second-worst in all the majors right now of qualified players. So even ignoring what he's done in the past, his rate is still almost twice as low as guys like Dunn, Reynolds, Howard, etc.

Your point was his lower strikeout totals compensate for the lack of walks somewhat. But since BB-K ratio uses only those two numbers, this suggests that's not the case at all. In fact, he's faring even worse when looking at these two numbers in isolation.

The strikeouts are still on the high side. They're not problematic, but short of improving his walk rate, the guy will definitely have to continue to cut down on them even more if he wants to be successful. If he does either (or both), no doubt about it - he will be one of arguably the best sluggers in the game. But he does definitely need to do at least one or the other.

I guess I don't entirely follow your first two paragraphs, sorry.

Appreciate your thoughts. Obviously, we'll see how he does against big league pitching.

Overall, I think his contact rate for this type of hitter is relatively high and affords Francisco - given his huge power - to be a big time hitter. How it works out, we'll see.

[HeatherC1212]

I wonder what kind of numbers Votto would've put up had he not missed a month of playing time

Wow, those numbers could have been scary good. :D IMO, he was very likely to be an All Star before he went on the DL. I'm sure it didn't matter much to him (especially at the time) but boy what that would have done for the Reds to get him on the All Star team for the NL where guys like Pujols, Fielder, and Gonzalez seem to rule 1B. :eek:

[_Sir_Charles_]

Rosie at short. Sutton at second. Tatum behind the dish. Viola on the bump.

~edit~ Barker at first too.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Single for Miggy. 12 game hitting streak.

[HokieRed]

Viola throwing 95 and an 81 slider. If he can get any kind of control over that slider, he'll be unhittable with that difference.

[mbgrayson]

Who is the oldest guy the Reds have out there right now?

[Kc61]

Get Cordero up.

[HeatherC1212]

At least we had a huge lead before Berkman struck with a HR. :eek:

[_Sir_Charles_]

Berkman with a monster shot. 2 run dinger. 10-4.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Who is the oldest guy the Reds have out there right now?

Gotta be Tatum or Barker, right?

[HokieRed]

I wish Dusty hadn't made all those changes. Always best not to disturb the baseball gods.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Ramirez in

[HeatherC1212]

Who is the oldest guy the Reds have out there right now?

Is it Wlad? I don't remember how old Barker is but it could be him too. Those are my two guesses and boy is that a young team on the field right now! The scary thing is when our regulars are out there, there's not much difference, LOL :laugh:

[Kc61]

I'm not sure we'll see Viola in this organization after this season. He has a good arm, but hasn't shown any kind of consistency.

Good line by the Astros announcers that Viola has hit a discordant note and leaves the game.

[mbgrayson]

Gotta be Tatum or Barker, right?

Barker is 34, Tatum is 26.

[HeatherC1212]

I think we should have a party when Berkman retires from the game. ;)

[Kc61]

Double against Ramirez for Carlos Lee.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Hmmmm....Lee with a double.

we need to stop this RIGHT NOW! I want the blowout.

[Kc61]

Long fly out to Bruce. Two out.

[HeatherC1212]

That could have been scary but I'm glad they stopped the bleeding. :eek:

[mbgrayson]

Who is the oldest guy the Reds have out there right now?

Stubbs- 24
Sutton- 26
Barker- 34
Rosales- 26
Bruce- 22
Balentin- 25
Francisco- 22
Tatum- 26

Viola- 26
Ramirez- 27

[Kc61]

That could have been scary but I'm glad they stopped the bleeding. :eek:

Ramirez is decent. He's a nice pitcher to have at AAA to come up when needed. Not sure he makes the staff next year, probably not, but hope they can keep him in reserve one more year.

[HokieRed]

I doubt Viola's on next year's opening day roster but the stuff's awfully good--worth sticking him back at L'ville to see if he can get it right.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Taveras pinch....hitting?

[Kc61]

I doubt Viola's on next year's opening day roster but the stuff's awfully good--worth sticking him back at L'ville to see if he can get it right.

They'll need to protect him or he will definitely be picked up somewhere.

I wonder if he'll ever get it together, but sometimes lefties bloom late.

Dusty obviously likes his arm, Viola got a lot of work this spring and Dusty always comments favorably about his arm.

[redsfandan]

Who is the oldest guy the Reds have out there right now?
I love that question. The Reds are young and will likely only get younger. And that's fine with me.

[HeatherC1212]

This Astros pitcher could be part of an NFL team's O Line. What a big guy! Do you think the Bengals could get him? ;)

[_Sir_Charles_]

They'll need to protect him or he will definitely be picked up somewhere.

I wonder if he'll ever get it together, but sometimes lefties bloom late.

Dusty obviously likes his arm, Viola got a lot of work this spring and Dusty always comments favorably about his arm.

Gotta remember, he's a position player turned pitcher after joining the minors. Those types are ALWAYS late bloomers.

[HeatherC1212]

Ramirez is decent. He's a nice pitcher to have at AAA to come up when needed. Not sure he makes the staff next year, probably not, but hope they can keep him in reserve one more year.

I was at the game last season when he finally got his first major league win after the bullpen blew it for him in three previous games. It was a fun night and he is a good pitcher to have available when the big clue needs him in a pinch. :)

[_Sir_Charles_]

1-2-3 for Peronto. Bottom of the 9th coming. who's closing? Burton?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Burton in. Kepp quickly flies out to Jay.

[HeatherC1212]

Reds win!! The quest for .500 is still alive!!! :jump:

[_Sir_Charles_]

And this one belongs to the Reds! :O) Great game.

[HeatherC1212]

Jay Bruce gets the post game interview and it's really nice to see him more comfortable and happy. :)

[HeatherC1212]

OMG, now Grande thinks Sandusky is near Columbus!!! LEARN YOUR OHIO GEOGRAPHY PEOPLE!! Sandusky...on LAKE ERIE. Columbus...near the MIDDLE OF THE STATE. They are TWO HOURS apart!! :bang:

[durl]

OMG, now Grande thinks Sandusky is near Columbus!!! LEARN YOUR OHIO GEOGRAPHY PEOPLE!! Sandusky...on LAKE ERIE. Columbus...near the MIDDLE OF THE STATE. They are TWO HOURS apart!! :bang:

Well, it's more "near" Columbus than, say, Minneapolis. :D

[WVRedsFan]

Great game thread, boys and girl. Good pbp, a nice discussion between mth and me on Maloneys Jim and Matt and another between Brutus and KC on Francisco. Great to see Heather be able to stay up to keep us all in the right mood, and the blowout was nice too. It's been a very pleasant month or so and let's keep it rolling until next weekend!

[_Sir_Charles_]

Okay, it's official. We'd better win tomorrow...cuz I don't want to be blamed for breaking the winning streak. Just got my tickets. Actually pretty close to where that kid caught the bat tonight. Of course, being of sound mind...I'll be DODGING any flying bats headed my way. :O)

[redsfandan]

I still think they keep Gomes. How much could he actually get in arbitration? His numbers ate decent but not bank breaking.
I didn't see anyone reply to this question. I'm betting around $2 million.

[HeatherC1212]

Okay, it's official. We'd better win tomorrow...cuz I don't want to be blamed for breaking the winning streak. Just got my tickets. Actually pretty close to where that kid caught the bat tonight. Of course, being of sound mind...I'll be DODGING any flying bats headed my way. :O)

I just realized that I won't be home part of tomorrow night to entertain the game thread (I'll get home in the middle of the game) so you better bring them some good luck! ;) If you happen to catch a foul ball or a stray bat from Joey, please send me a PM so we can talk business, LOL :thumbup:

Have fun! :beerme:

[HeatherC1212]

Great game thread, boys and girl. Good pbp, a nice discussion between mth and me on Maloneys Jim and Matt and another between Brutus and KC on Francisco. Great to see Heather be able to stay up to keep us all in the right mood, and the blowout was nice too. It's been a very pleasant month or so and let's keep it rolling until next weekend!

Aww, I do my best! ;) And my theory is that Saturday mornings are for sleeping in so why not stay up a little longer tonight? LOL :laugh:

[redsmetz]

Aww, I do my best! ;) And my theory is that Saturday mornings are for sleeping in so why not stay up a little longer tonight? LOL :laugh:

Got you beat. We're just back from the museum center picking our daughter up from the Amtrak station coming in from DC. She caught bits of the game coming through the mountains in WV, but the Charleston and Huntington stations both had high school football games on instead of the Reds.

On to .500!

[cumberlandreds]

The quest for .500 record lives!

[_Sir_Charles_]

I just realized that I won't be home part of tomorrow night to entertain the game thread (I'll get home in the middle of the game) so you better bring them some good luck! ;) If you happen to catch a foul ball or a stray bat from Joey, please send me a PM so we can talk business, LOL :thumbup:

Have fun! :beerme:

Notta chance. In my nearly 100 games I've attended...I've NEVER caught a foul ball. No chance I'll cough it up. :O)

[HeatherC1212]

Notta chance. In my nearly 100 games I've attended...I've NEVER caught a foul ball. No chance I'll cough it up. :O)

That's all right but you gotta give me credit for trying, LOL ;)

[WVRedsFan]

Got you beat. We're just back from the museum center picking our daughter up from the Amtrak station coming in from DC. She caught bits of the game coming through the mountains in WV, but the Charleston and Huntington stations both had high school football games on instead of the Reds.

On to .500!

If there is anything else to broadcast, WCHS in Charleston moves the baseball to a low-watt local station that no one can get out of Kanawha County. Same with the Huntington affiliate. In fact, they are the only two stations within 150 miles that carry the Reds in WV. And then they do this? Thank goodness for Sirius-XM is all I can say. Even FSO lets us down when they decide to show Cincinnati football instead of the Reds.