Arroyo to the Mets?

[travisgrimes]

According to link provided in THE ORG, the Mets are "intently" going after Bronson and maybe two other Reds players. The other players to me could only be a couple of players: Brandon Phillips, Willy Taveras, Laynce Nix or Wladimir Balentien. But who could we get in return? If we trade Harang to LAD and get a young SS in return do we even make an attempt at Jose Reyes? If the Mets aren't willing to deal their top prospects as they said in the link provided.... who do they even have that would interest the Reds?

[GIDP]

Mets dont really have a lot to offer these days.

[mattfeet]

Mets dont really have a lot to offer these days.

Exactly what I came in here to say.

-Matt

[travisgrimes]

That's why I'm confused with this move... Mets system is bare and only players they have to deal they are unwilling to trade. Maybe Jocketty pulls something outta his a**, i guess we'll see.

[Jefferson24]

It's a move to reduce payroll, it doesn't have much to do with what we get back.

Sometimes I think they are almost intentionally trying to drive away the fan base.

Package Arroyo and Phillips and they save a bunch of $$$. Don't expect them to reinvest much of the savings either.

[flash]

Josh Thole would be a nice pick-up at catcher, but is he ready yet. Ithink he is at least a year away. He would definitely be in Louisville next year. I know he has had a good minor leaguue career and is currently kicking but in Vennezuela.

Reese Havens, SS really did well in Arizona, but it was the first time he had ever done well offensively.

[Ghosts of 1990]

He's been rumored to every team in baseball. Won't happen.

[GIDP]

Here is a few thoughts.

First, I dont really think the Mets have much to offer in terms of minor league talent. Or have any I think they would give up for just Arroyo.

Secondly, if the deal were to include another player from the Reds I think we start discussing some major league players on the Mets. Hard to believe that any of the Mets current roster fits for the Reds other than Jose Reyes.

[JayBruceFan]

Get Fernando Martinez and put him in left

[Vottomatic]

Jose Reyes makes $9M next season. Mets need a first baseman. Package Arroyo ($12M) + Alonso ($1M) and get our SS. We still save $4M.

[GIDP]

http://bases.nbcsports.com/2009/12/the-mets-and-the-reds-are-working-on-a-deal-with-a-lot-of-moving-parts.html.php


Mark Healey of Baseball Digest reports that the Mets and the Reds are in "serious talks" about a trade involving Bronson Arroyo. Nothing is likely to get done quickly, however, because according to Healey's source there are multiple other players involved -- including more Reds -- and because the Mets "have a player under contract that needs to be moved in order for the deal to be expanded," whatever that means.
I wouldnt read too much but I have theorys on this story.

"The player under contract" im thinking about fitting that most is Castillo. I cant see the Reds taking him on even if the Mets deal possibly includes Arroyo and Phillips, which might be possible.

If im just spit balling this I read it as the Mets need someone to take Castillo before they can work up a deal involving more than just Arroyo.

Also I dont know how much I trust Baseball Digest. They are pretty much online only these days and many of their reporters are just bloggers. I know this because I happen to know someone who was approached about writing for them.

[mattfeet]

Jose Reyes makes $9M next season. Mets need a first baseman. Package Arroyo ($12M) + Alonso ($1M) and get our SS. We still save $4M.

This would be beyond awesome.

-Matt

[mdccclxix]

Jose Reyes makes $9M next season. Mets need a first baseman. Package Arroyo ($12M) + Alonso ($1M) and get our SS. We still save $4M.

I'd rather give them cozart a b prospect and kick in some significant cash.

[Moosie52]

The Reds won't win 50 games if both Harang and Arroyo go.

[Joeyjection19]

Jose Reyes makes $9M next season. Mets need a first baseman. Package Arroyo ($12M) + Alonso ($1M) and get our SS. We still save $4M.

This would make my day.

[Deepleft34]

There is NO chance that the Mets are trading Reyes. His name was mentioned for Halladay and the team immediately backed off. The only way Reyes goes to the Reds is if Votto comes in return. I know the Reds are not doing that so it is a moot point. As a Met fan whose 2nd favorite team is the Reds, I am big on both Harang and Arroyo...but I doubt that you net anything higher than a Bobby Parnell...maybe a John Maine. If Molina is signed, there is a slight chance on Thole...but the NY Media LOVES the kid and it wuld be a bloodbath, so I doubt him too.

[David Cubbedge]

Just have to state something to everyone in Redsland. There is no way that the Reds will see Reyes in a deal. No possible way the Mets would swap BP for him. Are we being serious? Since when have the Reds gotten something over on another team? I know the suggestion is Arroyo and BP for Reyes, but I still don't think that gets it done.

Nothing I have read so far tells me that the Reds are not unloading salary. When was the last time this team traded a valued commodity that was getting expensive and gained a valued return. Whether it were really good spects, or MLB level talent. It just hasn't happened for us as Reds fans, and nothing has been reported that we will actually see a return now.

The only thing we have read is that there is interest on both ends and that specifically Arroyo is mentioned. One report says the Reds are including more players from their roster. And finally, for this to happen Castillo has to be dealt. None of this tells me that the Reds are looking to net a valuable return.

It could go either way, but don't be surprised if we dump Harang, Arroyo and possibly even BP and CoCo for peanuts.

[flash]

Well, if the Reds can't get Thoule and they can't get Reyes than what is the point?

(I would trade Taveras for Havens for a salary dump if the Reds were looking to get someone to pay for that ridiculous contract he signed.)

[David Cubbedge]

Thats exactly what I am saying. It would be nice to trade Tavares for salary relief. Knowing that nobody will want the guy, Jocketty may be looking for relief elsewhere. Arroyo, Harang, Phillips, and CoCo could be had for next to nothing if Jocketty is simply trying to unload.

[Vottomatic]

Just have to state something to everyone in Redsland. There is no way that the Reds will see Reyes in a deal. No possible way the Mets would swap BP for him. Are we being serious? Since when have the Reds gotten something over on another team? I know the suggestion is Arroyo and BP for Reyes, but I still don't think that gets it done.

Nothing I have read so far tells me that the Reds are not unloading salary. When was the last time this team traded a valued commodity that was getting expensive and gained a valued return. Whether it were really good spects, or MLB level talent. It just hasn't happened for us as Reds fans, and nothing has been reported that we will actually see a return now.

The only thing we have read is that there is interest on both ends and that specifically Arroyo is mentioned. One report says the Reds are including more players from their roster. And finally, for this to happen Castillo has to be dealt. None of this tells me that the Reds are looking to net a valuable return.

It could go either way, but don't be surprised if we dump Harang, Arroyo and possibly even BP and CoCo for peanuts.

Are you kidding me? The Reds dumped Griffey's salary and got Nick Masset in return.
They dumped Dunn's salary and got Owings and Herrera in return.

Both Herrera and Masset are key components of our bullpen. And Griffey is an aging veteran who should be retired. Dunn made less in free agency than he did playing for the Reds. That says alot about what major league teams think of him.

I don't see Jocketty dealing Harang, Arroyo, BP or CoCo for peanuts. Their contracts are all up in the next 1 or 2 years. There is no extreme hurry to deal any of them. They are just putting their names out there to see if any club is dumb enough to bite.

The Mets would be the type of team that would be dumb enough to bite.

[GIDP]

Reds didnt get Herrera for Dunn. They got him for Hamilton.

[UPRedsFan]

Who pitches if Arroyo is gone? Who replaces those 200 innings?

Who pitches if both Harang and Arroyo are gone?

This would be a mistake

[FlyerFanatic]

Who pitches if Arroyo is gone? Who replaces those 200 innings?

Who pitches if both Harang and Arroyo are gone?

This would be a mistake

who cares how many innings arroyo and harang eat up? this team is terrible, if we arent competing, then whats the point of paying both those guys 11 mill to eat up innings? might as well trade em and try to get that money off our already strapped budget.

this organization needs to shed payroll anyway it can, and re think how they want to turn this organization around. walt is already off to a bad start by blaming the fans for not coming out. fans arent going to come out and watch this team lose. if they can turn the corner and get this team competing in a weak NL central, the fans will show.

[UPRedsFan]

who cares how many innings arroyo and harang eat up? this team is terrible, if we arent competing, then whats the point of paying both those guys 11 mill to eat up innings? might as well trade em and try to get that money off our already strapped budget.

this organization needs to shed payroll anyway it can, and re think how they want to turn this organization around. walt is already off to a bad start by blaming the fans for not coming out. fans arent going to come out and watch this team lose. if they can turn the corner and get this team competing in a weak NL central, the fans will show.

So how do the turn the corner by getting rid of two fifths of the starting rotation? We're already looking for a 5th starter. Trade Arroyo and we'll need 2. You can't count on Wood or Volquez. This team was not terrible the last portion of the season. When Arroyo and Bailey were both pitching well and Rolen and Stubbs came on the scene they started to win. Unless we're getting Reyes for Arroyo or Kemp for Harang we need to hang on to these guys. If the Reds are not competing at the deadline then cut one or both loose. But don't throw the season away before it begins. There is a chance we compete this year.

I expect the offense to be better. Stubbs/Dickerson could be a very productive (high OBP) combo in centerfield. Bruce could bust out this year. Heisey could be ready after what he did in the AFL -lots of players make that jump. The defense should be league leading with a full year of Janish, Rolen and Stubbs. If Harang is healthy it will be a very solid rotation with Bailey, Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, and Owings/Maloney. Throw Arroyo and Harang out and we're a .500 team at best. Stand pat and we have a chance.

[Dracodave]

Arroyo and Harang out and we're a .500 team at best. Stand pat and we have a chance.


Keeping Harrang and Arroyo makes us that .500 team at best, remember Harrang tries to pitch every game perfectly because he gets zero run support. Arroyo doesn't get good till the second half of the season and by then we are already out of it. How does keeping either of these guys benefit the Red? If you keep one keep Harrang, if we can get some run producers out of Arroyo atleast the all around better pitcher stays with the Red, the one that can produce solid innings at all times. Arroyo is very flakey with his stats.



Before All-Star Cincinnati Reds 9 8 5.38 18 18 2 1 0 0 112.0 125 74 67 21 5 41 59

After All-Star Cincinnati Reds 6 5 2.24 15 15 1 1 0 0 108.1 89 27 27 10 4 24 68


How is the first half of Arroyo's season helping the Reds? If you replace that with a young pitcher who produces a era a full run lower than that, it keeps our players in the game more. He was very hittable in the first half of the season.

[GIDP]

Trading Arroyo and Harang might take us from at best .500 team to an at worst who cares.

[Moosie52]

Trade Harang. Trade Cordero. That saves enough money. How much of the savings do you think goes back into the team and how much goes back into the owners' pockets? Don't give up Arroyo just to dump salary, because he will be impossible to upgrade.

[Dracodave]

Trading Arroyo and Harang might take us from at best .500 team to an at worst who cares.


I feel we are already there.

When the big signing is Laynce Nix and Chris Burke. Who cares?

[Dracodave]

Trade Harang. Trade Cordero. That saves enough money. How much of the savings do you think goes back into the team and how much goes back into the owners' pockets? Don't give up Arroyo just to dump salary, because he will be impossible to upgrade.


How is he impossible to upgrade? He is NOT an ace. Its not like we are trading a Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay, we're trading Arroyo. He is at best a number 3.

[GIDP]

I feel we are already there.

When the big signing is Laynce Nix and Chris Burke. Who cares?

More like the only signing is those 2.

[UPRedsFan]

Wrong guys.

All those in favor of trading Harang and Arroyo please go back and answer my original question. Who will pitch in their place in the rotation?

If you can give me 2 names who are reasonable to expect 200 innings of sub 4.5 ERA from, then we can talk. The answer doesn't exist in house. Owings has proven it's not going to be him. Maloney and Wood aren't ready for that level of performance. Lehr can't do it. Volquez won't be ready until July. If you're thinking we'll just sign someone, then why not keep what you've got?

I can concede that trading Arroyo while value is at highest may be smart if we get young talent back. But then you have to keep Harang.

[Dracodave]

Wrong guys.
All those in favor of trading Harang and Arroyo please go back and answer my original question. Who will pitch in their place in the rotation?
If you can give me 2 names who are reasonable to expect 200 innings of sub 4.5 ERA from, then we can talk. The answer doesn't exist in house. Owings has proven it's not going to be him. Maloney and Wood aren't ready for that level of performance. Lehr can't do it. Volquez won't be ready until July. If you're thinking we'll just sign someone, then why not keep what you've got?


I'm not quite sure Maloney couldnt produce that ERA. His strike out walk rate was pretty impressive, and giving up runs as a rookie even the long ball will happen till he learns to keep the ball down in the zone.

40ip
28 strike outs
8 walk

Thats something I'll take from a lefty if he can build on that. He's not as bad as many people will describe him and sure he gave up runs last year, but he only got 40 innings of exposure at the big league level, can we right him off that fast? Weren't people complaining when we were ready to write Bailey off for the same way?

If you go into next year with a rotation of

Harrang
Cueto
Bailey
Maloney
Hopefully we trade for some decent talent to replace what we are giving up in Arroyo.

The top three are still solid, and the you'll get Volquez back mid-summer. Im not sure how that rotation is any worse than Josh Fogg or Kip Wells or whatever scrub we used to run out there.

Maloney will NOT progress if he is still striking out minor leaguers...what does that mean? Wells can do the same! Let him PROVE he can't pitch at the MLB level before giving up on him.

[UPRedsFan]

I'm not giving up on Maloney. I'd just be more comfortable with him earning the 5th spot instead of depending on him to fill the 4th spot with Arroyo gone.

[Dracodave]

In order to get good talent, you must give up good talent.

I didnt see Florida cry when they gave up Becket for Hanley.