Seattle fires Jim Mora, ESPN reporting Pete Carroll next.

[LoganBuck]

ESPN going nuts on possible move of Carroll to Seahawks.

Nothing concrete, but Mortenson and Schefter reporting on the possibility, claim that Carroll is already putting a staff together.

[Newport Red]

It's a good time for Carroll to get out before the roof falls in on SC football.

[Reds4Life]

He's tried the NFL before, and flamed out. He's a god at USC, I don't see him taking a hike. NCAA is never going to give them any real punishment, they are a cash cow and draw big ratings.

[flyer85]

He's tried the NFL before, and flamed out. He's a god at USC, I don't see him taking a hike. NCAA is never going to give them any real punishment, they are a cash cow and draw big ratings.the basketball team at USC has been made the scapegoat (the Reggie Bush situation was 2 years prior to Mayo but is still dragging on ).

[Chip R]

He's tried the NFL before, and flamed out. He's a god at USC, I don't see him taking a hike. NCAA is never going to give them any real punishment, they are a cash cow and draw big ratings.


Even if they do get real punishment, are fewer people going to watch them? Nobody gets taken off TV as a punishment these days and no one is bowl ineligible. The most that would happen is that they would lose some scholarships, and be put on probation.

[Reds4Life]

Even if they do get real punishment, are fewer people going to watch them? Nobody gets taken off TV as a punishment these days and no one is bowl ineligible. The most that would happen is that they would lose some scholarships, and be put on probation.

Yup, nothing is going to happen to them, so I don't think it will be an issue for Carroll wanting to get out.

[bucksfan2]

Even if they do get real punishment, are fewer people going to watch them? Nobody gets taken off TV as a punishment these days and no one is bowl ineligible. The most that would happen is that they would lose some scholarships, and be put on probation.

Some teams do get taken off as a form of punishment. I really like what Carroll does for the college game. I really think that college football is better off with Carroll than without him. But I think that the hammer is going to and needs to come down on USC football. With the absence of a NFL team in LA, USC football is king. That players are treated like royalty which inevitably leads to NCAA infractions. If Carroll leaves I think you will see USC football face serious sanctions and go through another 5 year down period.

[Chip R]

Some teams do get taken off as a form of punishment.

I certainly can't remember the last team that happened to in either basketball or football.

[OnBaseMachine]

I hope Carroll doesn't leave (and I don't think he will), but if he does, I hope guys like Mike Leach, Chris Petersen, Steve Sarkisian are at the top of USC's list to replace Carroll.

[UKFlounder]

No Lane Kiffin? :D


I hope Carroll doesn't leave (and I don't think he will), but if he does, I hope guys like Mike Leach, Chris Petersen, Steve Sarkisian are at the top of USC's list to replace Carroll.

[Hoosier Red]

Yup, nothing is going to happen to them,

Cmon that's not true, there's a very good chance that SW Arkansas state my lose 10 scholarships to teach USC a lesson.

[Sea Ray]

No Lane Kiffin? :D

Oh, they know they can't lure Lane away from Big Orange Country...

[Sea Ray]

I'm not so sure Pete Carroll will be a great NFL coach. What do you think?

[Revering4Blue]

Bill Cowher to Seattle?

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/01/seahawks-fire-jim-mora-after-one-season/1

[IslandRed]

Anyway, TV money in college football flows through the conferences, not the NCAA. The NCAA makes its bones from the basketball tournament.

[KoryMac5]

Pete Carroll was not a very good NFL coach 33-31 with the Patriots and the Jets. At USC he is 97-19 during his tenure and has his pick of wonderful California recruits every year. I think he may be kicking the tires to see if he can get more $$$ from the school.

[WVRed]

Pete Carroll was not a very good NFL coach 33-31 with the Patriots and the Jets. At USC he is 97-19 during his tenure and has his pick of wonderful California recruits every year. I think he may be kicking the tires to see if he can get more $$$ from the school.

And yet Carroll refuses to take an NFL job unless he is given total control.

You know, because those GM's don't know what they are doing.

I think Carroll's luck on the national scene is running out and he knows it. They haven't exactly been world beaters the past two years, even with McKnight and Sanchez (Bush and Leinart part 2) running the show. Carroll may want to jump ship before USC fans start calling for change.

[OnBaseMachine]

I didn't think Pete would leave but now it appears I was wrong. Scott Wolf of the LA Times says Jim Harbaugh is a potential candidate to replace Carroll along with Mike Riley, Jack Del Rio, and Jeff Fisher. I like Harbaugh the most out of that group.

Riley is one of the top five most underrated coaches in FBS IMO but I'd rather have Harbaugh. However, it looks like the first call will go to Riley.

edit - June Jones is another guy I'd love to see USC pursue but I doubt they go there.

[WVRed]

I didn't think Pete would leave but now it appears I was wrong. Scott Wolf of the LA Times says Jim Harbaugh is a potential candidate to replace Carroll along with Mike Riley, Jack Del Rio, and Jeff Fisher. I like Harbaugh the most out of that group.

Riley is one of the top five most underrated coaches in FBS IMO but I'd rather have Harbaugh. However, it looks like the first call will go to Riley.

edit - June Jones is another guy I'd love to see USC pursue but I doubt they go there.

Question is, would Harbaugh take the job and if he did, would he ultimately leave to go to his alma-mater if the Michigan job comes open next year?

[Danny Serafini]

I certainly can't remember the last team that happened to in either basketball or football.

I think Baylor basketball may have, not that it mattered since Baylor was irrelevant at the time anyway. They also got the worst hit since SMU's death penalty when the NCAA canceled their nonconference schedule. Otherwise I can't really remember when. Maybe that Auburn football team that went undefeated in the early '90s while on probation?

[KronoRed]

Jack Del Rio? so many Jaguar fans would be thrilled.

[Tony Cloninger]

Pete had one bad year... 6-10 for the Jets. He went 8-8...9-7 and 10-6 for the Patriots. I do not call that bad at all...but I do not think he could be a GM/coach. He would be better off being a coach with good input into personnel decisions but not complete control.

[Kingspoint]

SI.com's Jim Trotter reports that Seahawks owner Paul Allen is unwilling to offer head coaching candidate Pete Carroll total control over football matters.

And we have a potential hitch. "Allen has been through that once with Mike Holmgren and is not going to go through that again," said Fritz Pollard Alliance chairman John Wooten, who has knowledge of the situation. It's long been believed that if Carroll was to return to the NFL, he'd want GM duties in addition to the head coaching job. A deal no longer appears to be imminent.

[dabvu2498]

I think Baylor basketball may have, not that it mattered since Baylor was irrelevant at the time anyway. They also got the worst hit since SMU's death penalty when the NCAA canceled their nonconference schedule. Otherwise I can't really remember when. Maybe that Auburn football team that went undefeated in the early '90s while on probation?


I don't think Baylor was banned from playing on TV.

The Auburn football and Kentucky basketball programs were both off TV for a year in the early 90s. That's the last I can remember, also.

[Chip R]

Looks like it's a done deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4810861

[paintmered]

Looks like Carroll is getting out before the house of cards collapse leaving the next guy to deal with it all.

[Sea Ray]

That Rooney Rule is such a fraud. It's apparently all that's holding up an announcement. It makes minorities like Leslie Frasier, the ones it's meant to help, a pawn. It puts them in a bad situation. Another "well intentioned" rule which has unintended consequences making the solution worse than the problem.

[KoryMac5]

Pete had one bad year... 6-10 for the Jets. He went 8-8...9-7 and 10-6 for the Patriots. I do not call that bad at all...but I do not think he could be a GM/coach. He would be better off being a coach with good input into personnel decisions but not complete control.

He was awful with the Jets losing his last 6 games that season after starting 6-4. He was Ok with the Patriots during his tenure their, 33-31 overall. I wouldn't be paying a coach 7 million per season for numbers like that unless he was a proven winner in the NFL. Cowher must be sitting back asking himself what he is worth to a team if Pete gets 7 million per season.

[Oxilon]

He was awful with the Jets losing his last 6 games that season after starting 6-4. He was Ok with the Patriots during his tenure their, 33-31 overall. I wouldn't be paying a coach 7 million per season for numbers like that unless he was a proven winner in the NFL. Cowher must be sitting back asking himself what he is worth to a team if Pete gets 7 million per season.

Obviously that's not the only factor going into his salary. Hypothetically, if he was a .500 career coach in the NFL (which he is), that being it, he wouldn't command half that.

The only reason it's $7MM is due to his success at USC. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Reds4Life]

Obviously that's not the only factor going into his salary. Hypothetically, if he was a .500 career coach in the NFL (which he is), that being it, he wouldn't command half that.

The only reason it's $7MM is due to his success at USC. Nothing more, nothing less.

And that is a bad reason, the NFL isn't college football.

[kaldaniels]

That Rooney Rule is such a fraud. It's apparently all that's holding up an announcement. It makes minorities like Leslie Frasier, the ones it's meant to help, a pawn. It puts them in a bad situation. Another "well intentioned" rule which has unintended consequences making the solution worse than the problem.

It's not designed to get a minority hired when someone like Carroll is available...it is meant to get the names of minorities out there in case someone else is looking around.

[Newport Red]

That Rooney Rule is such a fraud. It's apparently all that's holding up an announcement. It makes minorities like Leslie Frasier, the ones it's meant to help, a pawn. It puts them in a bad situation. Another "well intentioned" rule which has unintended consequences making the solution worse than the problem.

Marvin didn't get a head coaching job the first few tries. It gets your name in the head coaching discussion for the next few years and gives you interviewing experience.

[Sea Ray]

It's not designed to get a minority hired when someone like Carroll is available...it is meant to get the names of minorities out there in case someone else is looking around.

Not only do I disagree with you, Leslie Frazier does too...


I can't believe some of you folks don't see the hypocrisy of this. I pulled this paragraph out of the ESPN story posted earlier:


Seahawks CEO Tod Leiweke had told Frazier that Carroll definitely does not have Seattle's job. Frazier had been unwilling to talk with the Seahawks about the head-coaching vacancy if Carroll had been promised full control of the Seahawks. Multiple sources indicated he had been.

Does it sound to you like Frazier did it for the "experience" of getting interviewed? Do you think he flew across the country for this interview (while preparing for his team's next playoof game) just so he could get his name out there?

No! The Seahawks had to lie to him and tell him that the Carroll deal wasn't a done deal. Interviewing for a job that you have no chance to get is not a good experience. Frasier made it clear that he wanted no part of a token interview, but just because of his race, he was lied to and took precious time away from his current job just so the Seahawks could announce this hiring.

I think it stinks and it is an injustice to Leslie Frazier. He knows he's a good coach and for that reason alone he knows teams will come calling for his services. He doesn't need lame rules like the Rooney Rule in order to get a head coaching job.

[reds44]

Looks like Carroll is getting out before the house of cards collapse leaving the next guy to deal with it all.
John Calapari is proud.

[kaldaniels]

Not only do I disagree with you, Leslie Frazier does too...


I can't believe some of you folks don't see the hypocrisy of this. I pulled this paragraph out of the ESPN story posted earlier:



Does it sound to you like Frazier did it for the "experience" of getting interviewed? Do you think he flew across the country for this interview (while preparing for his team's next playoof game) just so he could get his name out there?

No! The Seahawks had to lie to him and tell him that the Carroll deal wasn't a done deal. Interviewing for a job that you have no chance to get is not a good experience. Frasier made it clear that he wanted no part of a token interview, but just because of his race, he was lied to and took precious time away from his current job just so the Seahawks could announce this hiring.

I think it stinks and it is an injustice to Leslie Frazier. He knows he's a good coach and for that reason alone he knows teams will come calling for his services. He doesn't need lame rules like the Rooney Rule in order to get a head coaching job.

If Frazier does not agree with my premise, then Frazier is a fool for partaking in such an event. (No seriously...why in the world would he go out there in the midst of a playoff season if he knew he wasn't going to get the gig) There was no gun to his head...he could have easily declined. Truth is...now, many more people (media in particular) know the name Leslie Frazier. And for that Frazier is grateful.

Look my friend, I was not presenting my opinion...I was presenting a fact. The Rooney Rule was designed to get the names of minorities "out there", with the end result being more minorities would eventually be hired.

If you want to argue whether the rule is good or not...thats another question...but in the Pete Carroll case, although Carroll had the job from day 1, now many more people know the name Leslie Frazier. That is the result of the Rooney Rule. It was not designed to prevent teams or impede teams from making a seemingly easy choice.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Interviewing for a job that you have no chance to get is not a good experience. Frasier made it clear that he wanted no part of a token interview, but just because of his race, he was lied to and took precious time away from his current job just so the Seahawks could announce this hiring.

I think it stinks and it is an injustice to Leslie Frazier. He knows he's a good coach and for that reason alone he knows teams will come calling for his services. He doesn't need lame rules like the Rooney Rule in order to get a head coaching job.

Agree.

[Sea Ray]

If Frazier does not agree with my premise, then Frazier is a fool for partaking in such an event. (No seriously...why in the world would he go out there in the midst of a playoff season if he knew he wasn't going to get the gig) There was no gun to his head...he could have easily declined. Truth is...now, many more people (media in particular) know the name Leslie Frazier. And for that Frazier is grateful.

Look my friend, I was not presenting my opinion...I was presenting a fact. The Rooney Rule was designed to get the names of minorities "out there", with the end result being more minorities would eventually be hired.

If you want to argue whether the rule is good or not...thats another question...but in the Pete Carroll case, although Carroll had the job from day 1, now many more people know the name Leslie Frazier. That is the result of the Rooney Rule. It was not designed to prevent teams or impede teams from making a seemingly easy choice.

If you and I knew Pete Carroll had the job all along, how could Leslie Frazier not have?

You dispute your own point when you said Frazier is a fool for being used. I agree 100%. Because of this Rooney rule, we're discussing (and agreeing) that this minority candidate is a fool for being used. How is that good for the minority candidate?

He didn't need this interview for notoriety. He's been mentioned as a potential head coach for years not because of his race but because of his coaching abilities. To say that good coaches like Frazier need to go through these hoops in order to get hired someday just because he's black is a insult, in my opinion.

[kaldaniels]

If you and I knew Pete Carroll had the job all along, how could Leslie Frazier not have?

You dispute your own point when you said Frazier is a fool for being used. I agree 100%. Because of this Rooney rule, we're discussing (and agreeing) that this minority candidate is a fool for being used. How is that good for the minority candidate?

He didn't need this interview for notoriety. He's been mentioned as a potential head coach for years not because of his race but because of his coaching abilities. To say that good coaches like Frazier need to go through these hoops in order to get hired someday just because he's black is a insult, in my opinion.

If Frazier thought he had a chance in this interview...he is a fool. But he went anyway, yes, as the token candidate, to promote himself.

I do not think he was "used".

[Sea Ray]

I do not think he was "used".


I disagree and I'll tell you why.

1)Seattle had to lie to him to even get him there.

2)Seattle needed him to interview before they could announce the hiring.

3)Frazier gets interviewed in good faith, takes time away from his team preparing for the playoffs and goes home empty handed

Seattle gets the coach they want while satifying their requirements under the Rooney Rule. Frazier gets nothing but FF miles out of the deal.

If I were him I would feel used.

If Pete Carroll is not announced as Seattle's head coach I'll come around to your way of thinking, Kal...:beerme:

[BRM]

The LA Times is reporting that Pete Carroll to Seattle is a done deal.

[traderumor]

Look for the gauntlet to drop on USC football as a soon to follow announcement. I have little doubt that he is getting out of Dodge with this move.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Wow, Sea Ray and I agree a lot so far in 2010. What the heck is going on? :)

[bucksfan2]

Look for the gauntlet to drop on USC football as a soon to follow announcement. I have little doubt that he is getting out of Dodge with this move.

I agree 100%. I am not a USC fan at all. Haven't been since they torched OSU two years in a row. But I do think that college football is better with Carroll than without Carroll. I always saw Carroll as a likable guy who knew how to get most out of his players. I think he will struggle again in the NFL and think USC's program will suffer in the next handful of years.

[LoganBuck]

Reggie Bush just met with the NCAA.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ys-reggiebush011010&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[Chip R]

Reggie Bush just met with the NCAA.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ys-reggiebush011010&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


About time.

[KronoRed]

Look for the gauntlet to drop on USC football as a soon to follow announcement. I have little doubt that he is getting out of Dodge with this move.

USCw is one of the sacred cows in college football, slap on the wrist treatment.

[Hoosier Red]

I disagree and I'll tell you why.

1)Seattle had to lie to him to even get him there.

2)Seattle needed him to interview before they could announce the hiring.

3)Frazier gets interviewed in good faith, takes time away from his team preparing for the playoffs and goes home empty handed

Seattle gets the coach they want while satifying their requirements under the Rooney Rule. Frazier gets nothing but FF miles out of the deal.

If I were him I would feel used.

If Pete Carroll is not announced as Seattle's head coach I'll come around to your way of thinking, Kal...:beerme:

The Rooney Rule doesn't require Leslie Frazier to interview with Seattle. If he "knew" what the situation was he wouldn't have had to go out and interview.
What's the downside to him interviewing with one of 32 people making decisions about head coaches. If he impresses Seattle's owner, perhaps it helps get jobs down the road. Marvin Lewis and Lovie Smith both interviewed multiple times before they were hired. My guess is the good interviews they had previous to being hired in their specific roles probably didn't hurt matters.

[Chip R]

The Rooney Rule doesn't require Leslie Frazier to interview with Seattle. If he "knew" what the situation was he wouldn't have had to go out and interview.
What's the downside to him interviewing with one of 32 people making decisions about head coaches. If he impresses Seattle's owner, perhaps it helps get jobs down the road. Marvin Lewis and Lovie Smith both interviewed multiple times before they were hired. My guess is the good interviews they had previous to being hired in their specific roles probably didn't hurt matters.


Not that I disagree with you - you actually make a good point - but what would happen to the Seahawks if someone like Frazier declined to be interviewed? Would they have to interview another minority candidate or by asking to interview a minority candidate, does that fulfill the requirement?

And take it one step further, what if every minority candidate refused to interview because they think it's a joke?

[Tom Servo]

SI's Peter King reports that Jaguars coach Jack Del Rio is making calls to potential staff members in anticipation of leaving Jacksonville for USC.

[Hoosier Red]

Not that I disagree with you - you actually make a good point - but what would happen to the Seahawks if someone like Frazier declined to be interviewed? Would they have to interview another minority candidate or by asking to interview a minority candidate, does that fulfill the requirement?

And take it one step further, what if every minority candidate refused to interview because they think it's a joke?

A similar situation happened in Detroit. In a situation like that, I think it would be in the best interest of the team to be up front with a candidate and say we're definately looking at hiring Carroll, but in the event that doesn't work out and in order to cover our end we'd like to fly you in for an interview. The worst thing to come out of it would be a free trip to seattle and a nice night in a 5 star hotel.

[kaldaniels]

Not that I disagree with you - you actually make a good point - but what would happen to the Seahawks if someone like Frazier declined to be interviewed? Would they have to interview another minority candidate or by asking to interview a minority candidate, does that fulfill the requirement?

And take it one step further, what if every minority candidate refused to interview because they think it's a joke?

It only takes one...you could easily find a low-level assistant wanting to interview just to get his name out there. Come find me when a team throws up its hands (an extreme timetable deadline not withstanding) and says "sorry, but we can't find one minority who will interview".

[Chip R]

It only takes one...you could easily find a low-level assistant wanting to interview just to get his name out there. Come find me when a team throws up its hands (an extreme timetable deadline not withstanding) and says "sorry, but we can't find one minority who will interview".

Of course. But, hypothetically speaking, what would happen if they did decide to not interview there? Do the Seahawks face penalties if they went ahead and hired Carroll? Does the NFL give them a break because no minority would interview?

[kaldaniels]

Of course. But, hypothetically speaking, what would happen if they did decide to not interview there? Do the Seahawks face penalties if they went ahead and hired Carroll? Does the NFL give them a break because no minority would interview?

From within the pro and college ranks, I would bet there are over 1000 minorities on coaching staffs. If each and everyone of them declined...I figure the NFL might let it slide.

You gotta admit...thinking that not one minority would be willing to be flown in for an interview is a huge,huge,hypothetical.

I repeat it just takes one. You'd think in a worst case scenario one of the higher-ups in the Seahawks organization could simply call in a favor and have someone show up.

[traderumor]

Reggie Bush just met with the NCAA.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ys-reggiebush011010&prov=yhoo&type=lgnsThe article says he met before the start of the 2009 football season.

[bucksfan2]

I don't really like the Rooney rule. I think it serves a purpose, but its implementation is off. Seattle wants to hire Carroll. They are not hiring Carroll because he is white, they are hiring Carroll because of his success at USC. Its the same thing with Washington hiring Shanahan, and any team that hires Cowher is going to hire Cowher because of his pedigree and whether or not Cowher wants to coach for a given team.

I have another question about the Rooney rule. Lets assume that Tony Dungey makes it known that he wants to come back and coach. St. Louis works out a deal with Dungey without interviewing anyone else. Should they have to hire a white coach?

Leslie Frazier will get a coaching job at some point. I wonder how many coordinators got a job on their first or even second interview, Al Davis doesn't count. I think that at some point the Rooney Rule served a purpose to get black coaches into the forefront, but I think it has become more of a hindrance anymore.

[Sea Ray]

The Rooney Rule doesn't require Leslie Frazier to interview with Seattle. If he "knew" what the situation was he wouldn't have had to go out and interview.
What's the downside to him interviewing with one of 32 people making decisions about head coaches. If he impresses Seattle's owner, perhaps it helps get jobs down the road. Marvin Lewis and Lovie Smith both interviewed multiple times before they were hired. My guess is the good interviews they had previous to being hired in their specific roles probably didn't hurt matters.

You're dealing in the hypothetical. I deal in the real world (where possible) and your scenario is not what happened with Frazier. This is what really happened according to ESPN reports:

Frazier made it clear that he was not interested in a token interview. He only wanted to interview if he had a realistic shot at the job. Upon hearing that and knowing that they needed an interview with a person of color, the Seahawks lied to him and said they had not decided on Carroll as their next head coach. Under those conditions, Frazier agrees to the interview.

So to recap, it's the deceit here that the Rooney Rule fostered that I have a problem with. If Frazier had been told the truth and still agreed to the interview for the reasons you mentioned above, fine. But that's not what happened. He was used and that's not right.

[Sea Ray]

Of course. But, hypothetically speaking, what would happen if they did decide to not interview there? Do the Seahawks face penalties if they went ahead and hired Carroll? Does the NFL give them a break because no minority would interview?

Yes the Seahawks would face penalties if they didn't interview a minority candidate.

The Redskins also made a mockery of the whole process. John Feinstein equates believing the Redskins hadn't already decided on Shanahan to believing in Santa Claus:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/30/AR2009123001213.html


And Tony Dungy also doesn't like how the Seahawks handled it although he does acknowledge the value of a pointless interview nevertheless:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/tony-dungy-on-rooney-rule-011010


"That is not what the Rooney Rule is supposed to be, (that) you make up your mind and then interview a candidate for it anyway just to satisfy the rule," said Dungy, who retired from coaching last year and now is an analyst on NBC's "Football Night in America" show.

"If the Jerry Gray situation is the way it has been described as happening, I don't think it was fair. I don't think I would ever interview for a job if my boss was not out of the job. I don't blame Jerry; it's the position he was put in, if it happened that way."

Jerry Gray is the token minority candidate interviewed by the Redskins.

Dungy notes that the rule "isn't fair" and I agree with him. Do any of you disagree with Dungy and me?

[BRM]

Carroll insisted his decision had nothing to do with the NCAA's lengthy look into his program, denouncing rumors of a rift between him and athletic director Mike Garrett. Carroll said he thought he would be at USC "forever."

How many people believe the bolded part?

[Sea Ray]

How many people believe the bolded part?

I don't but time will tell the story here. If things get ugly at USC Carroll won't be able to escape it. It's not like he's going into the witness protection program. We all know where to find him.

Bottomline is this, if USC is shown to have significant issues in its recruiting of athletes then it'll take a toll on Carroll's image as a successful college coach and that's the only success he's really got at this point. If he's not winning in Seattle by then, it all could unravel on him.

Sure he'll have money but ego and prestige is what really matters to this guy.

[Hoosier Red]

Yes the Seahawks would face penalties if they didn't interview a minority candidate.

The Redskins also made a mockery of the whole process. John Feinstein equates believing the Redskins hadn't already decided on Shanahan to believing in Santa Claus:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/30/AR2009123001213.html


And Tony Dungy also doesn't like how the Seahawks handled it although he does acknowledge the value of a pointless interview nevertheless:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/tony-dungy-on-rooney-rule-011010



Jerry Gray is the token minority candidate interviewed by the Redskins.

Dungy notes that the rule "isn't fair" and I agree with him. Do any of you disagree with Dungy and me?

Yes I disagree with you and Tony Dungy. Dungy more than anyone should understand how helpful those interviews can be as he went on about 5 of them before finally being offered the job.

Did it harm Jerry Gray in any way to be the "token" interview?
You're assuming the Redskins and/or Seahawks have to lie to people which is incorrect. The Seahawks chose to lie to Frazier because they didn't want to go beyond him as far as candidates.
Again the Rooney rule doesn't require the Seahawks to interview Leslie Frazier. If he decides he doesn't want to interview, they can move on to someone else. I'm pretty sure Frazier's gone through the token interview and didn't want to do it again which is fair, that's his choice.

If a team wanted to circumvent the rule, I'd just interview a minority coach from the current staff. The person would have the motivation to impress the big cheese so maybe there's something on the new coaches staff.

[Hoosier Red]

I really don't understand how people can argue with the Rooney rule unless they believe that the # of minority coaches was not a problem. It's a legitimate viewpoint to think that but the 32 NFL owners did not. They wanted to create a system where more minority candidates were getting opportunities.

So without forcing a single team to hire someone less qualified, the number of minority coaches has gone from 2 to 6 inside of 5 years.

[Chip R]

How many people believe the bolded part?


Mark McGwire? ;)

[jimbo]

They wanted to create a system where more minority candidates were getting opportunities.

I would rather they create a system where more qualified candidates were getting opportunities.

[bucksfan2]

I really don't understand how people can argue with the Rooney rule unless they believe that the # of minority coaches was not a problem. It's a legitimate viewpoint to think that but the 32 NFL owners did not. They wanted to create a system where more minority candidates were getting opportunities.

So without forcing a single team to hire someone less qualified, the number of minority coaches has gone from 2 to 6 inside of 5 years.

The problem I have with the system is on full display this off season. If you want to hire a coach like Shanahan, Cowher, Carroll, or Holmgren why should you have to interview anybody else? You are hiring these guys based upon pedigree, wins, style, etc.

If Leslie Frazier wants to become a NFL head coach, which I think he does, then let him interview for an actual job that he can get.

[Sea Ray]

I really don't understand how people can argue with the Rooney rule unless they believe that the # of minority coaches was not a problem. It's a legitimate viewpoint to think that but the 32 NFL owners did not. They wanted to create a system where more minority candidates were getting opportunities.

So without forcing a single team to hire someone less qualified, the number of minority coaches has gone from 2 to 6 inside of 5 years.

Because it makes a mockery of the entire process. I present to you exhibit A and B:


1) Seahawks

2) Redskins

Read the two articles I posted if you want to know what a mockery this was.

If a team wants to hire a white coach then it is a burden for a minority candidate to be called in. Just ask Leslie Frazier

The Rooney Rule doesn't keep teams from hiring the white boys

[gonelong]

Because it makes a mockery of the entire process. I present to you exhibit A and B:


1) Seahawks

2) Redskins

Read the two articles I posted if you want to know what a mockery this was.

If a team wants to hire a white coach then it is a burden for a minority candidate to be called in. Just ask Leslie Frazier

The Rooney Rule doesn't keep teams from hiring the white boys[/quote]

It wasn't meant to. It was meant to give minorities access to the process. Coaches are hired-to-be-fired.

The guy that interviews has a chance to make an impression on a number of people. He has access. I'd rather be considered as an after-thought or a courtesy than not at all, because that gives me a chance, no matter how small. That's a burden I'll gladly shoulder.

In a year or two's time, many of those folks that were part of the process may have moved to another team and have a voice in the hiring of that teams next coach.

If Leslie Frazier doesn't want to be bothered with opportunity, then he can pound sand. I'd be damn happy to interview for a scarce position that I knew was already all but locked-up if the chances the position would be open again in 3 years was 50/50.

GL

[Hoosier Red]

I would rather they create a system where more qualified candidates were getting opportunities.

Fine, but that's not what the owners wanted. They were not forced to implement this rule, they wanted to open up the opportunities to minority coaches because they realized that more qualified coaches were not getting as many chances.

[Hoosier Red]

Because it makes a mockery of the entire process. I present to you exhibit A and B:


1) Seahawks

2) Redskins

Read the two articles I posted if you want to know what a mockery this was.

If a team wants to hire a white coach then it is a burden for a minority candidate to be called in. Just ask Leslie Frazier

The Rooney Rule doesn't keep teams from hiring the white boys

Which is exactly why its the correct way of doing things.

Consider from 2003(when the Rooney Rule was instituted) through 2006, the number of minority coaches went from 2 to 6.

That tells me that simply making sure that minority candidates are being included in the process but are not given preferential treatment means that the rule is working exactly as they want it to.

Sorry if it means the Redskins and Cowboys have to spend an extra $500 on a hotel room.


Again, if it was an imposition to Leslie Frazier he could have politely declined.
There are many situations which I've pointed out where it is useful for minority candidates to interview.

[jimbo]

Fine, but that's not what the owners wanted. They were not forced to implement this rule, they wanted to open up the opportunities to minority coaches because they realized that more qualified coaches were not getting as many chances.

I disagree with all of this. The rule was never intended to give more qualified coaches chances, but rather minorities, qualified or not. The NFL was pretty much pressured into it by civil rights lawyers who threatened them with a major lawsuit if they didn't start hiring more black coaches. The PR from something like that would have been disastrous, so they had to come up with something.

[jimbo]

Consider from 2003(when the Rooney Rule was instituted) through 2006, the number of minority coaches went from 2 to 6.

That tells me that simply making sure that minority candidates are being included in the process but are not given preferential treatment means that the rule is working exactly as they want it to.

Or, it could simply mean that the organizations who hired these coaches felt they were the most qualified, and would have interviewed and hired them regardless if the Rooney Rule was in effect or not.

[Hoosier Red]

Or, it could simply mean that the organizations who hired these coaches felt they were the most qualified, and would have interviewed and hired them regardless if the Rooney Rule was in effect or not.

All right I don't want to be argumentative so my last words on this.

If you are correct, then for 20 years, 4 black coaches were hired and if I understand correctly never more than 2 were coaching at one time.

The Rooney Rule is passed which makes no requirement to hire black coaches, but rather simply to interview one. And within 4 years the number of coaches goes from 2-6 and it's simply a coincidence?

They were all on the verge of being offered jobs anyway? To me that's more naive than believing Pete Rose never gambled on baseball.