2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

[Playadlc]

Meltdown in the works here.

[WMR]

Good lord... inbound the freaking ball

[WMR]

Refs will give it to KU if they can.

[WMR]

:facepalm:

[Reds Fanatic]

Northern Iowa lead down to 1 as Kansas has scored the last 6.

[WMR]

YES!!!! HAHAHAH

GO Ali!!!

[Reds Fanatic]

A clutch 3 and then an offensive foul by Kansas. Northern Iowa up 4 with 24 seconds left.

[Scrap Irony]

Perception is an important thing in basketball. Officials are human and often subconsciously affect games far too much.

This is one of those times.

Every time KU sets up their press, they foul.

Every. Time.

I hate it for NIU, as they've played well enough to win.

[Oxilon]

I know No. Iowa has this all but wrapped up, but has anybody else felt their was a Kansas bias with the refs? Kansas' full court pressure definitely deserved some calls for No. Iowa but they didn't get a single one.

[Scrap Irony]

Why would you call a TO there? Especially considering how difficult a time they've had getting the ball in-bounds?

Let KU foul and take your chances.

[WMR]

KANSAS is DONE

[Reds Fanatic]

Northern Iowa knocks out Kansas!

[Scrap Irony]

Wow. My bracket is officially done.

(And I love it.)

[reds1869]

This is the best tournament in years, and we just witnessed a classic game.

[WMR]

2 on Aminu

[Scrap Irony]

Wake matches up well with Kentucky athletically. (They may be the most athletic team in America.)

This should be a really interesting game.

[GIDP]

Having KY lose now would make this bracket the best ever.

[durl]

Is it just me or does Wall seem a little out-of-sync?

[redhawkfish]

Longest rebound ever? Wake Forest blows the dunk and ball goes to a UK player at the other end top of the key!

[Scrap Irony]

Having KY lose now would make this bracket the best ever.

Hate all you want, this Kentucky team is fun both to root for and against. They're the upstart Yankees of the early 2000's. And that's good for college basketball.

Besides, Chas McFarland is the dirtiest player perhaps in the history of the ACC. (And, God Almightly, is that ever saying anything, considering Duke is in that league.) You really want that guy to win? Ever?

[durl]

oh...and Jay Bilas doing color for the UK game. Just great.

[GIDP]

Hate all you want, this Kentucky team is fun both to root for and against. They're the upstart Yankees of the early 2000's. And that's good for college basketball.

Besides, Chas McFarland is the dirtiest player perhaps in the history of the ACC. (And, God Almightly, is that ever saying anything, considering Duke is in that league.) You really want that guy to win? Ever?

I'm not hating I just want to laugh. If anything its joy filled.

[durl]

Hey...Ashley Judd is at the UK game. Who'da thunk it?

[durl]

LOVE IT! MacFarland tries to push Orton away from the basket and ends up helping Orton set the pick for Wall.

[WMR]

Darius Miller's best half as a Cat. Maybe already his best game as a Cat.

WOW.

[WMR]

Whooooo!!!!

[GIDP]

Hey...Ashley Judd is at the UK game. Who'da thunk it?

Now like shes got much else to do these days.

[WMR]

Good lawd. :eek:

[WMR]

Damn Bledsoe looked like Nate Robinson on that dunk. Like Nate Robinson on steroids.

[durl]

Damn Bledsoe looked like Nate Robinson on that dunk. Like Nate Robinson on steroids.

No kidding. I'm glad to see Bledsoe and Miller finding their games when it counts.

[durl]

Orton will get a technical. He put his hands on another player...a light push. The replay shows that the refs missed the shot to the head #1 gave Cousins on his way to the basket.

[WMR]

Considering his behavior throughout the game, I thought Macfarland should've been ejected.

He is a dirty, dirty player.

Credit to Cousins once again for keeping his cool.

[WVRed]

Orton will get a technical. He put his hands on another player...a light push. The replay shows that the refs missed the shot to the head #1 gave Cousins on his way to the basket.

Kentucky got the raw end on that one. I didn't even see Orton do anything to merit a technical.

I agree with WMR, he should have been tossed. That was a pretty violent cut that looked more like frustration than going for the ball.

[WMR]

I hope Krebs' mother was watching that. :)

[WVRed]

Dear President Obama,

Thank you for the kiss of death.

Love,

The Kansas Jayhawks Mens Basketball Team

[15fan]

Believe me, few tears will be shed by the Wake faithful that McFarland must move on.

Impressive showing by Kentucky. 3rd time Wake has played Kentucky in the tournament, and the margins of victory have been 34, 20, and 30.

[Razor Shines]

So, I guess I shouldn't have taken 20 mins researching who I would take in that elite eight Georgetown - Kansas Match up.

[Kingspoint]

Obviously, the Pac-10 was a lot better than was led to believe.

The RPI is a joke.

[MasonBuzz3]

Dear President Obama,

Thank you for the kiss of death.

Love,

The Kansas Jayhawks Mens Basketball Team

Villanova would like to be included on this letter...much thanks

[joshnky]

It appears that Wes Johnson is over his February swoon. Syracuse will be the team to beat in that half of the field if he begins to play like a POY candidate again.

[Razor Shines]

That sucks, I was kinda looking forward to a Butler - Gonzaga Sweet 16 game.

[Scrap Irony]

Ten fouls called on Georgia Tech, three on OSU with 7:30 left in the 1st Half.

Were I Paul Hewitt, I'd have already gotten at least one technical.

My one major critique with this year's tournament has been the officiating. Very poor. Very biased.

[OnBaseMachine]

Cornell has an early 11-1 lead on Wisconsin.

[Scrap Irony]

Cornell beating Wisconsin would suprise no one outside Madison. Most experts, IIRC, picked the Ivy League team.

Will be an interesting game between Kentucky and whomever happens to come out of this game. Athletic approach v. cerebral. Fast break v. slow down. Princeton offense v. the DDMO.

[Scrap Irony]

Three fouls now on Lawal, two on Favors. Meanwhile, Turner plows into Peacock to clear out room and nothing called.

Sigh.

Fouls now 11-4, ridiculous, and patently unfair.

[15fan]

As someone who has watched Hewitt-coached teams for about a decade now, let me offer this:

Hewitt's teams play defense with hands and arms first, feet second. It's physical ball.

If the refs let it go, they wear down folks and win.

If the refs call it tight, however, they end up with lots of guys saddled with lots of fouls.

[Scrap Irony]

I get that, absolutely. But it's not like Ohio State isn't doing the exact same thing. Hand checks, bumps, and elbows should be called both ways.

[OnBaseMachine]

Cornell leads Wisconsin by 11 with under two minutes remaining in the first half.

[Scrap Irony]

Ohio State D = Duke D

It's flops and flails and I tire of it. Play defense like a man.

[OnBaseMachine]

Cornell leads Wisconsin by 12 at the half.

WVU is up five on Missouri at halftime.

[OnBaseMachine]

Now a 15 point lead for Cornell with 16 minutes to go.

[MBZags]

I'm here to lament Gonzaga's loss. I didn't expect them to win at all, but that was just embarrassing. They have historically struggled with their perimeter defense, and Wes Johnson absolutely shredded them up.

Since my bracket already sucks thanks to Kansas and Villanova, I'll be cheering for the underdogs. It'd be nice to see Cornell pull out another victory, particularly in lieu of what's happening on their campus right now.

[OnBaseMachine]

Ohio State and Michigan State are well on their way to advancing to the Sweet 16.

Cornell leads Wisconsin by 17 with under 11 minutes remaining.

WVU is up 9 with 11:28 to go.

[OnBaseMachine]

Ohio State beat Georgia Tech 75-66.

MSU leads Maryland by 7 with 3:59 left.

WVU is up 6 with under five minutes to go.

Cornell leads Wisconsin by 21 with 5:09 left.

[OnBaseMachine]

Maryland is within one point with a 1:19 remaining. Wow.

[OnBaseMachine]

Maryland is now winning 81-80 with 31 seconds left. What a comeback.

[kbrake]

Anyone know what time Ohio State will play Friday?

[Reds Fanatic]

Michigan State beats Maryland on a buzzer beater.

[OnBaseMachine]

Michigan State hits a three at the buzzer to beat Maryland 85-83.

[Reds Fanatic]

Anyone know what time Ohio State will play Friday?They will probably announce the game times at the end of the games today.

[OnBaseMachine]

#12 Cornell knocked off #4 Wisconsin 87-69.

[OnBaseMachine]

West Virginia knocks off Missouri 68-59 and advances to the Sweet 16 to play Washington.

[Playadlc]

Tom Izzo...best coach in CBB.

[Scrap Irony]

Tom Izzo...best coach in CBB.

Really? That was coaching?

If there was a time out and a pick (or even a set play), then I might call that great coaching. But it was a desperation 25-footer that happened to go in. That's luck, not good coaching.

(That said, Izzo may just be the best coach in America. Though I'd argue Williams, Howland, Calipari, and a couple others on that list.)

[WVRed]

After watching WVU this afternoon, if they go on one of their famous "cold streaks" to open the half, given the way Kentucky has been playing, I could see it getting ugly REAL QUICK.

If you are down by 15 early, you have to play up-tempo style to get back in, which WVU cannot do. If they try, it could be disastrous.

[OnBaseMachine]

Xavier leads Pitt 28-18 with 5:12 remaining in the first half.

[Redsfaithful]

Ohio State D = Duke D

It's flops and flails and I tire of it. Play defense like a man.

Nah, Georgia Tech wasn't as talented, and it was clear from the get go they were going to get in foul trouble. That's why I wasn't worried about the full court press early, it couldn't be effective for long because GT couldn't keep it up without fouling.

There were some ridiculously flagrant fouls from Tech in the second half actually.

[OnBaseMachine]

Xavier is up 12 with under 15 minutes to go...

[OnBaseMachine]

Xavier's 50-37 lead with 13 minutes left has been cut to 50-49 with 8:49 to go...

Texas A&M leads Purdue by 11 with 15:49 to go.

[OnBaseMachine]

Xavier is up 5 with 54 seconds left and X has the ball.

A&M has blown an 11 point lead and now trails Purdue by three.

[OnBaseMachine]

Xavier tried their best to give the game away but they hung on to beat Pitt 71-68.

Duke beat Cal 68-53.

A&M/Purdue is tied at 55 with one minute remaining.

[Reds Fanatic]

Purdue and Texas A&M tied with 1.1 seconds left. A&M ball

[GIDP]

Nice Job CBS :laugh:

[redhawkfish]

Nice Job CBS :laugh:

No Kidding!! That was stupid! I just saw the last play.

[OnBaseMachine]

Texas A&M and Purdue are headed to OT.

[Reds Fanatic]

The 4th OT game of the tournament as Purdue and Texas A&M go to OT.

[OnBaseMachine]

Purdue wins 63-61 as A&M blows a double digit second half lead.

[reds1869]

Xavier on to the Sweet Sixteen for the third consecutive year. I'm one happy man this evening!

[Redsfaithful]

This has honestly been one of the funnest tournaments I can remember.

[OnBaseMachine]

This has honestly been one of the funnest tournaments I can remember.

Agreed.

[dabvu2498]

I never get tired of watching X go to the Sweet 16. Never forget, X fans, that it's not part of the birthright to be there. Enjoy it every time.

[reds44]

I am hoping like no other at least one mid major finds their way into the Final Four. Whether it be Butler, St. Mary's, X, Cornell, whoever. Just give me one.

[OnBaseMachine]

I am hoping like no other at least one mid major finds their way into the Final Four. Whether it be Butler, St. Mary's, X, Cornell, whoever. Just give me one.

Agreed. I think St. Mary's has the best chance. If they beat Baylor they'll advance to the Elite Eight and face the winner of Purdue/Duke for a chance at the Final Four.

I'm hoping Xavier beats Kansas State and Butler knocks off Syracuse, then Xavier and Butler would face off and one of them would be guaranteed a Final Four berth.

[reds44]

I think has X has a shot against Kansas State, but I don't think Butler has enough offense to stay with Cuse. How awesome would it be if Butler got to the Final Four in Indianapolis, though?

[GIDP]

Cornell is really good

[Hoosier Red]

Purdue wins 63-61 as A&M blows a double digit second half lead.

I hate Purdue as much as any team in the country, but dang, that was an impressive effort.

As for the game earlier in the day, Izzo showed he's the best coach in the country because his team didn't need to call a timeout in order to know exactly what play to run and how to get the ball into the right spot. I'd say it even if they didn't make the shot.

[Danny Serafini]

I'm hoping Xavier beats Kansas State and Butler knocks off Syracuse, then Xavier and Butler would face off and one of them would be guaranteed a Final Four berth.

That could be interesting, a battle of Thad Matta's former employers to see which would face Ohio St. in the Final Four.

[dabvu2498]

That could be interesting, a battle of Thad Matta's former employers to see which would face Ohio St. in the Final Four. Even better, it could be rematch of their game from nonconference season, which had quite a controversial ending.

[bucksfan2]

I think has X has a shot against Kansas State, but I don't think Butler has enough offense to stay with Cuse. How awesome would it be if Butler got to the Final Four in Indianapolis, though?

I think the way Syracuse played against Gonzaga no team was going to beat them. You just aren't going to be a team like Syracuse when they are making everything. Its similar to how OU dismantled Georgetown. You aren't going to beat a team when they are draining 3 pointer after 3 pointer.

That said if Syracuse isn't on fire and Butler can ugly up the game they will have a fighting chance.

I don't know enough about Kansas State to know how good they are. They are in the Sweet 16 and 3 of their losses are to Kansas. The good thing for X is KSU doesn't have the type of top notch talent across the board. Those are the types of teams who have eventually knocked X out of the tourney. X can play with most teams but when they run up against more talent teams that are well coached they struggle. Their last 3 NCAA runs were short circuited by Duke, UCLA, and Pitt. Talent + Coaching is very difficult for a team like X to overcome.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Michigan State's Kalin Lucas is probably done for the tournament. Big loss for the Spartans.

[gilpdawg]

Michigan State's Kalin Lucas is probably done for the tournament. Big loss for the Spartans.

That's official now. He's done. Kind of figured that's what it was when it happened. (I have a little bit of a sports med background)

[Boston Red]

I am hoping like no other at least one mid major finds their way into the Final Four. Whether it be Butler, St. Mary's, X, Cornell, whoever. Just give me one.

Please stop referring to teams from the A-10, C-USA and MWC as mid-majors. They're not. Thanks.

For that matter, you shouldn't refer to Cornell as a mid-major. The Ivy League is a low-major league.

[Scrap Irony]

I'd argue that the A-10 is now a major conference, due to solid wins and programs over the past deacade to fifteen years. The MWC is also in that boat, especially this year.

The C-USA?

Mid-major city.

Memphis is the only interesting team in that entire league and it will soon prove irrelevant as a program, unless Pastner comes out slugging next season. (They carry that entire conference on their back.)

[Chip R]

Please stop referring to teams from the A-10, C-USA and MWC as mid-majors. They're not. Thanks.

For that matter, you shouldn't refer to Cornell as a mid-major. The Ivy League is a low-major league.

It's going to be tough to shake that label unless they join a BCS conference. Even all the success teams like Butler and Gonzaga have had over the past several years hasn't stopped the pundits from referring to them as mid-majors.

[Scrap Irony]

It's going to be tough to shake that label unless they join a BCS conference. Even all the success teams like Butler and Gonzaga have had over the past several years hasn't stopped the pundits from referring to them as mid-majors.

Most pundits are stupid.

[RichRed]

The Sweet 16 consists of teams from 11 different conferences. Now that IS sweet.

[bucksfan2]

I'd argue that the A-10 is now a major conference, due to solid wins and programs over the past deacade to fifteen years. The MWC is also in that boat, especially this year.

The C-USA?

Mid-major city.

Memphis is the only interesting team in that entire league and it will soon prove irrelevant as a program, unless Pastner comes out slugging next season. (They carry that entire conference on their back.)

I wouldn't rank the A-10 up there with the big boys yet. IMO they are probably a small notch below what CUSA was before the defection to the Big East. They were a pretty solid conference this season but over the past decade Xavier has been their only consistent team and they have more than a few very bad programs. Teams like Saint Bonaventure, LaSalle, Fordham, Duquesne, and George Washington have all been bottom feeder programs.

[GIDP]

A-10 is certainly not a major conference. It has a couple good programs but outside of the 4 or so that have decent success its not very good.

C-USA is pretty terrible

MWC isnt much better.

[Boston Red]

There's a huge difference between A-10, C-USA and the MWC (high major leagues) and conferences like the Big Sky, the Sun Belt, the MAC, the MAAC, etc. (mid-majors). And there's a huge difference between those mid-major leagues and leagues like the Ivy, OVC, Summit, Northeast, Patriot, A-Sun, etc. (low majors). Calling everyone not in a power conference a "mid-major" is extremely lazy on the part of commentators. All college basketball played outside the power conferences is not the same.

[WVRed]

I'd argue that the A-10 is now a major conference, due to solid wins and programs over the past deacade to fifteen years. The MWC is also in that boat, especially this year.

The C-USA?

Mid-major city.

Memphis is the only interesting team in that entire league and it will soon prove irrelevant as a program, unless Pastner comes out slugging next season. (They carry that entire conference on their back.)

Memphis will be back. They have the number one recruiting class coming in and almost all of the talent is from the Memphis area (something Cal never did). Joe Jackson, Will Barton (top SG in the class of 2010), Jelan Kendrick, and Tarik Black headline a pretty impressive class. Memphis is a hotbed for talent and if Pastner manages to keep them, they will be competitive.

Houston could be the one to watch. Tom Penders resigned yesterday and early speculation is that Billy Gillispie is the top choice. He would be a better fit back in Texas and if he has conquered the demons could put them into contention in C-USA within a year or two.

[GIDP]

There's a huge difference between A-10, C-USA and the MWC (high major leagues) and conferences like the Big Sky, the Sun Belt, the MAC, the MAAC, etc. (mid-majors). And there's a huge difference between those mid-major leagues and leagues like the Ivy, OVC, Summit, Northeast, Patriot, A-Sun, etc. (low majors). Calling everyone not in a power conference a "mid-major" is extremely lazy on the part of commentators. All college basketball played outside the power conferences is not the same.
So you just want to argue semantics? You want every conference to be labled, semi-major, mid-major, quarter-major, almost-major, sub-major and stuff like that?

A lot of these schools dont even have multiple college sport teams. I think it stems from the perception of that more than anything.

[Boston Red]

So you just want to argue semantics? You want every conference to be labled, semi-major, mid-major, quarter-major, almost-major, sub-major and stuff like that?

A lot of these schools dont even have multiple college sport teams. I think it stems from the perception of that more than anything.

If you want to lump the A-10 in with the SWAC, hell yes I want to argue semantics.

And it's not that tough: high major, low major, mid-major.

[GIDP]

If you want to lump the A-10 in with the SWAC, hell yes I want to argue semantics.

And it's not that tough: high major, low major, mid-major.

I dont think anyone thinks about it like that. I dont know if I have ever heard it expressed that way. Maybe if you have someone who doesnt follow college sports just look at a list sure but a college sports fan? Nah they generally know that the A-10 has some decent programs in it. You have to be in the dark. I think would guess that most people barely acknowledge SWAC as any major.

A-10 isnt a major conference so either way its going to be labled mid-major. I'm just pushing some buttons with that last comment.

[Chip R]

Most pundits are stupid.

True but they have the bully pulpit. And as long as they have that, they are going to talk about the Dukes, Kentuckys and North Carolinas. If some school like Penn State or Arizona State or St. Johns comes up out of nowhere and has a deep run in the tournament, the pundits are going to say it's because of that tough competition in the Big 10 or Pac 10 or Big East. When a team like UNI or Xavier or St. Marys comes up with a 25 win season, the pundits will say it's because their conference isn't tough. It's easier in this world to take the BCS conferences and label them all as major programs and all the rest as mid-majors and low-majors. All the best recruits go to those schools and they produce the most NBA players and so they get the attention. It's more difficult for people to pick and choose teams from other conferences and say this one's a major program and that one isn't.

[Hoosier Red]

If you want to lump the A-10 in with the SWAC, hell yes I want to argue semantics.

And it's not that tough: high major, low major, mid-major.

Here's the rules I identified as being mid major and below.

1) A maximum of 1 NBA quality player on the team at any one time. That's one every four years.
2) Either a) playing in a league with a maximum of 2-3 teams in the NCAA tournament over the past 10 years. or b) A team which has not finished in the top 33% of its own conference in the past 10 years.
3) Most important: The team has no expectation of making the Sweet 16 in a given year.
As an example: Tell Butler fans going into the year that they will make the tournament and lose in the 2nd round they'll probably be pretty happy. Tell UK fans they'll make the tournament and lose in the 2nd round, they'll be calling for 20 win Tubby's head.
As an addendum, any team that prints Sweet 16 T-shirts has no right to complain about being lumped in with the dreaded Mid-Majors.

[reds1869]

I dont think anyone thinks about it like that. I dont know if I have ever heard it expressed that way.

I used to see the leagues divided that way all the time. Somewhere around the year of the George Mason run everyone not in a "BCS league" started being referred to as a mid-major. It is just simple terminology designed for the simple minds that make up most of ESPN's audience.

[GIDP]

I used to see the leagues divided that way all the time. Somewhere around the year of the George Mason run everyone not in a "BCS league" started being referred to as a mid-major. It is just simple terminology designed for the simple minds that make up most of ESPN's audience.

Its possible but then again the schools that complain about being called a mid major really don't have much of an argument considering their conferences. Is Xavier a mid major program? No, but they certainly are in a conference that is easily debated as one.

[Revering4Blue]

Why “Mid-Major” Is More Accurate Than Ever.

http://www.yardbarker.com/college_basketball/article_external/Why_Mid_Major_Is_More_Accurate_Than_Ever/2297011

Why it (Mid-Major label) isn't.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/stewart_mandel/03/22/tournament.reset/index.html?eref=sihp/QUOTE]

[Revering4Blue]

[QUOTE]West Virginia starting point guard Darryl "Truck" Bryant will miss the rest of the NCAA tournament after breaking his right foot, school officials confirmed to ESPN.com on Tuesday night./QUOTE]

[Spazzrico]

I agree that XU is a major school in a weird conference. The top A-10 teams can play with the traditional power conferences and expect a modicum of success, while the bottom tier is just dreadful.

X fans like myself are particularly irritated by the mid-major label due to comments like I heard the other night from some schmoe on Sporting News radio. He was being complimentary, but he did so by saying something to the effect that Xavier is a mid-major, but isn't really playing like a mid-major right now (read: good). Here the expectation is that mid-majors are flashes in the pan. However anyone who follows college basketball knows how consistently successful Xavier is, now to the point of making the second weekend three years in a row. Only one other school in the country can say that. So hearing the mid-major label just feels like disrespect.

In the end, it's not like I lose sleep over it or anything, it's just annoying.

[reds1869]

I agree that XU is a major school in a weird conference. The top A-10 teams can play with the traditional power conferences and expect a modicum of success, while the bottom tier is just dreadful.

X fans like myself are particularly irritated by the mid-major label due to comments like I heard the other night from some schmoe on Sporting News radio. He was being complimentary, but he did so by saying something to the effect that Xavier is a mid-major, but isn't really playing like a mid-major right now (read: good). Here the expectation is that mid-majors are flashes in the pan. However anyone who follows college basketball knows how consistently successful Xavier is, now to the point of making the second weekend three years in a row. Only one other school in the country can say that. So hearing the mid-major label just feels like disrespect.

In the end, it's not like I lose sleep over it or anything, it's just annoying.

That pretty much sums up my feelings. In the end, I'll be enjoying the game in a few days and marveling at how far the program has come. I am so proud right now. The label annoys me but X just keeps on rolling.

[OnBaseMachine]

Funny stuff from some of West Virginia's basketball players:

http://www.twitvid.com/ABAC7

[Homer Bailey]

West Virginia starting point guard Darryl "Truck" Bryant will miss the rest of the NCAA tournament after breaking his right foot, school officials confirmed to ESPN.com on Tuesday night.

:angry:

The best team we've ever had (in my lifetime), and we lose our starting PG 2 days before the Elite 8, and 4 days before a potential matchup with John Wall.

West Virginia fans are simply cursed.

[Razor Shines]

Here's the rules I identified as being mid major and below.

1) A maximum of 1 NBA quality player on the team at any one time. That's one every four years.
2) Either a) playing in a league with a maximum of 2-3 teams in the NCAA tournament over the past 10 years. or b) A team which has not finished in the top 33% of its own conference in the past 10 years.
3) Most important: The team has no expectation of making the Sweet 16 in a given year.
As an example: Tell Butler fans going into the year that they will make the tournament and lose in the 2nd round they'll probably be pretty happy. Tell UK fans they'll make the tournament and lose in the 2nd round, they'll be calling for 20 win Tubby's head.
As an addendum, any team that prints Sweet 16 T-shirts has no right to complain about being lumped in with the dreaded Mid-Majors.

I disagree with that part about Butler. I used to live close to there and I worked just a couple blocks from Butler and I have to say that losing in the second round is a disappointment for most Butler fans, even for me as a casual Butler fan.

Now, if you tell Butler fans they're going to make it to the Sweet 16 and lose then yeah, they'd be happy. And that still may make the same point, Kentucky fans would probably not be happy with just making the Sweet 16.

[Captain Hook]

I disagree with that part about Butler. I used to live close to there and I worked just a couple blocks from Butler and I have to say that losing in the second round is a disappointment for most Butler fans, even for me as a casual Butler fan.

Now, if you tell Butler fans they're going to make it to the Sweet 16 and lose then yeah, they'd be happy. And that still may make the same point, Kentucky fans would probably not be happy with just making the Sweet 16.

You can throw Gonzaga, Xavier and Memphis into this as well.I'd guess that there fans have even higher expectations then the fans of teams that are consistently near the bottom of the BCS conferences.

The max 1 NBA player might be a decent measure most of the time but can by no means be the rule.Over the years there have been teams from mid majors with more then 1 NBA prospect and then you have teams from the Major conferences like North Western that never have NBA prospects.

[Captain Hook]

I disagree with that part about Butler. I used to live close to there and I worked just a couple blocks from Butler and I have to say that losing in the second round is a disappointment for most Butler fans, even for me as a casual Butler fan.

Now, if you tell Butler fans they're going to make it to the Sweet 16 and lose then yeah, they'd be happy. And that still may make the same point, Kentucky fans would probably not be happy with just making the Sweet 16.

Expectations change and sometime can do so in a very short time.I don't personally know any Butler fans but it's the same with all fans.We are all Reds fans here and I'm sure that our expectations are a winning season and we'd all be thrilled with a trip to the play offs.Then when we get to the play off a few years in a row and all the sudden just making it's not good enough.Nothing short of a Championship would do at that point(i know, hard to imagine).

[Hoosier Red]

You can throw Gonzaga, Xavier and Memphis into this as well.I'd guess that there fans have even higher expectations then the fans of teams that are consistently near the bottom of the BCS conferences.

The max 1 NBA player might be a decent measure most of the time but can by no means be the rule.Over the years there have been teams from mid majors with more then 1 NBA prospect and then you have teams from the Major conferences like North Western that never have NBA prospects.

Actually as Northwestern hasn't finished in the top 1/3 of the Big 10 in the past 10 years they fit as a mid-major under my rules as well.
It's interesting to hear that experience from you Razor. My experience on campus has been pretty low pressure. Now this specific year when they found out it would be Murray State in the 2nd round, I could see them being upset but going into the season I imagine most Butler fans would be happy to take it.

You certainly wouldn't hear any BU fans grumbling about neeeding a new coach after a 25-5 season and a second round exit.

[Razor Shines]

Actually as Northwestern hasn't finished in the top 1/3 of the Big 10 in the past 10 years they fit as a mid-major under my rules as well.
It's interesting to hear that experience from you Razor. My experience on campus has been pretty low pressure. Now this specific year when they found out it would be Murray State in the 2nd round, I could see them being upset but going into the season I imagine most Butler fans would be happy to take it.

You certainly wouldn't hear any BU fans grumbling about neeeding a new coach after a 25-5 season and a second round exit.

Certainly not, everyone seems to love Brad. And why shouldn't they? I like him too, played pick up ball with him before he became the head coach. He's a great guy.

Maybe it's different this year, as clearly I'm not near campus now. I have a few close friends that are Butler grads and I can say they wouldn't have been happy with 2nd round exit. I guess I see what you are saying though. There is a difference in being disappointed with a second round exit and being pissed about a second round exit.

[Hoosier Red]

Oh no, I agree. Stevens is a great coach and I hope he takes what happened at Iowa as a cautionary tale for chasing the big job elsewhere. He has a serious chance to become a legend at Butler on the same level as guys like Tony Hinkle but he'd have to stay at Butler to do it.

[reds44]

Please stop referring to teams from the A-10, C-USA and MWC as mid-majors. They're not. Thanks.

For that matter, you shouldn't refer to Cornell as a mid-major. The Ivy League is a low-major league.
Um no. They're all mid majors. C-USA is definatley a mid major.

[Caveat Emperor]

A-10 is certainly not a major conference. It has a couple good programs but outside of the 4 or so that have decent success its not very good.

I'd argue the same thing about the Big 10. Once you get past Ohio State, Purdue, Michigan State and Wisconsin there isn't a lot of good basketball to be found.

But, that's true for most conferences -- top heavy with good talent and a middle/back-end filled with crap.

[GIDP]

I'd argue the same thing about the Big 10. Once you get past Ohio State, Purdue, Michigan State and Wisconsin there isn't a lot of good basketball to be found.

But, that's true for most conferences -- top heavy with good talent and a middle/back-end filled with crap.

The thing is though those schools are consistently top 25 programs. A-10 basically only has Xavier.

[Scrap Irony]

The thing is though those schools are consistently top 25 programs. A-10 basically only has Xavier.

1. Xavier and Temple both spent the majority of the year in the Top 25.

2. The Top 25 poll means little in the grand scheme of things. It's one measure (and a poor one at that) of success as voted on by coaches (who have better things to do) and sportswriters (who are typically idiots and/or uninformed).

The A-10 is just as "major" as last season's SEC, this season's Pac-10, or the Big Ten three years ago. It almost always has at least two legitimate upper echelon teams that belong in the discussion for a six seed or better in the dance and two or three other teams that are in the discussion for at-large bids (or make noise in the NIT).

Don't let the talking heads on ESPN fool you, GIDP, there's good basketball-- as good as any in the ACC or Big East-- being played elsewhere in the country. We see that every March.

I just wished we saw it before then on national sports networks.

[Razor Shines]

1. Xavier and Temple both spent the majority of the year in the Top 25.

2. The Top 25 poll means little in the grand scheme of things. It's one measure (and a poor one at that) of success as voted on by coaches (who have better things to do) and sportswriters (who are typically idiots and/or uninformed).

The A-10 is just as "major" as last season's SEC, this season's Pac-10, or the Big Ten three years ago. It almost always has at least two legitimate upper echelon teams that belong in the discussion for a six seed or better in the dance and two or three other teams that are in the discussion for at-large bids (or make noise in the NIT).

Don't let the talking heads on ESPN fool you, GIDP, there's good basketball-- as good as any in the ACC or Big East-- being played elsewhere in the country. We see that every March.

I just wished we saw it before then on national sports networks.

But they don't have anyone that's got a real shot to win it all. You do have team(s) from the ACC, Big Ten, Big East, SEC and PAC 10 with a legit shot to win it all most years. All of them this year save the PAC 10.

Sure I love watching teams like Xavier, Butler and Cornell play, but realistically they don't have the talent that teams like Kentucky, WVU, Duke, Syracuse...etc have.

[reds44]

Funny stuff from some of West Virginia's basketball players:

http://www.twitvid.com/ABAC7
That was awesome lol

[dsmith421]

Paul Daugherty finally provided a workable, useful definition of "mid-major" in SI this week.


It's a construct of lazy media, and of the big six football conferences, who enjoy the autocratic way the term helps maintain their money, power and influence.

[RichRed]

Paul Daugherty finally provided a workable, useful definition of "mid-major" in SI this week.

That IS pretty good. Wonder who wrote it for him?

[Caveat Emperor]

But they don't have anyone that's got a real shot to win it all. You do have team(s) from the ACC, Big Ten, Big East, SEC and PAC 10 with a legit shot to win it all most years. All of them this year save the PAC 10.

So Memphis was never a legit shot to win it all when they were a #1 seed out of C-USA?

[dsmith421]

So Memphis was never a legit shot to win it all when they were a #1 seed out of C-USA?

Or, indeed, until the moment Mario Chalmers knocked down a 20-footer at the buzzer of the championship game.

They're from Conference USA, you see, and therefore can't be a legitimate national championship contender.

[dsmith421]

As an addendum, any team that prints Sweet 16 T-shirts has no right to complain about being lumped in with the dreaded Mid-Majors.

http://images.footballfanatics.com/FFImage/thumb.aspx?i=/productImages/_425000/FF_425664_xl.jpg&w=200

Midmajor? Check.

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_426000/FF_426575_l.jpg

Midmajor? Check.

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_425000/FF_425883_l.jpg

Midmajor? Check.

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_425000/FF_425667_l.jpg

They're everywhere! Indiana is the only remaining Major program in America!

[GIDP]

I think some of you are missing the point he was trying to make.

Im talking abour Razors post

[WVRed]

On to the tournament.

Butler taking it to Syracuse early. 26-17 with 4 minutes to go in the first half.

[Chip R]

And there goes my bracket. Butler wins.

[OnBaseMachine]

Butler over Syracuse. Wow, this has been a great tournament.

[improbus]

Butler over Syracuse. Wow, this has been a great tournament.

I think WVU and Washington are trying to single-handedly destroy that good feeling. What a horrific game.

[OnBaseMachine]

WVU is up 11 with under four minutes remaining. Go Eers.

[WVRed]

I think WVU and Washington are trying to single-handedly destroy that good feeling. What a horrific game.

It looks like WVU is going to win, but if they face Kentucky on Saturday, it could be downright ugly.

I didn't think WVU would miss Truck Bryant as badly as they do. Mazulla is over agressive and can't work with his right hand. If he picks up foul trouble early, WVU is finished.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Way to go Butler! Thanks for making one my upset picks look good.

That WVU/Wash game was painful to watch. Just slopy play and no rythm (and no fans for the first half).

[Reds Fanatic]

Kansas State is blowing Xavier off the floor 17-4.

[Hoosier Red]

http://images.footballfanatics.com/FFImage/thumb.aspx?i=/productImages/_425000/FF_425664_xl.jpg&w=200

Midmajor? Check.

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_426000/FF_426575_l.jpg

Midmajor? Check.

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_425000/FF_425883_l.jpg

Midmajor? Check.

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_425000/FF_425667_l.jpg

They're everywhere! Indiana is the only remaining Major program in America!

I stand by my point. UK, Syracuse, Duke, and tOSU have no business bragging about making a sweet 16. It's like the baseball teams printing wild card t-shirts. You should print a T-shirt to celebrate the highest point you've reached. So maybe it fits for Syracuse.

[WMR]

If I see a UK fan wearing a t-shirt bragging about a sweet 16, they will be mocked. ;)

[WMR]

Dick Enberg is aware, I hope, that Colgate isn't playing tonight? :eek:

[Joseph]

I'm not sure he's aware of where he is even, much less who is playing.

[Reds Fanatic]

Big comeback by Xavier as they come back from down 15 early to take a 1 point lead at the half.

[WMR]

Good Lord, Perry, you're a senior. You should know to go straight up there as soon as you catch.

[Slyder]

Watching Cornell vs UK and its showing the difference in speed. UK is trying to run Cornell out of Syracuse.

[WMR]

30-6 run to end the half :eek:

[BuckeyeRed27]

Cornell has no chance. Just aren't athletic enough. They would have to shoot about 90% to win this game and with the way UK is playing defense that would be lucky to even get off enough shots.

[Scrap Irony]

I hate to say it, but I find that I like Dick Enberg. As a kid, he was always my favorite of the big three. (His play-by-play with McGuire as color was like Mozart.) Sure, he may not be the fastest off the draw, but he works really well with Bilas (who's the best color man in the business right now).

And Kentucky is once again absolutely manhandling another team. This team is a coach's dream, in that they play monster man-to-man defense and outwork other teams. It's not that they're more talented; it's that they're more talented and work harder.

The only way UK loses this tournament is if they beat themselves.

[WMR]

I actually like Enberg as well. He reminds me of a sweet old uncle for some reason. haha.

[WMR]

The 5 assists notched by John Wall in the first half make him Kentucky's all-time single season assist record holder. What a talent.

[Scrap Irony]

Cornell scored six points in the last 15 minutes of the half.

Six. Points.

[Caveat Emperor]

And 1 on a 3 ball for K-State?

Ballgame. I don't care that there's 4 minutes left to play.

[Scrap Irony]

Crawford reminds me a lot of his brother.

[WMR]

I've said this before, but before his Senior year I couldn't wait for Joe Crawford to graduate and after his Senior season he had become one of my all-time favorite Cats.

[OnBaseMachine]

Xavier is up 67-66 with 1:53 remaining...

[Hoosier Red]

And 1 on a 3 ball for K-State?

Ballgame. I don't care that there's 4 minutes left to play.

Thank you Billy Packer.

[Hoosier Red]

Cornell scored six points in the last 15 minutes of the half.

Six. Points.

I think the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half, Kentucky scored 8 points.

[OnBaseMachine]

Xavier trails 72-71 with 5 seconds remaining and are shooting a free throw to tie the game...

[OnBaseMachine]

Xavier and Kansas State are headed to OT!

[Reds Fanatic]

5th OT game of the tournament as Xavier and Kansas State go to OT.

[Hoosier Red]

Len Elmore can shut it about the non call at the end. If the K-State player had actually slowed Holloway down he would have gotten credit for the foul before Holloway had a chance to shoot.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Len Elmore can shut it about the non call at the end. If the K-State player had actually slowed Holloway down he would have gotten credit for the foul before Holloway had a chance to shoot.

Agree. If you are going to foul in that situation you better make it crystal clear.

[jimbo]

Agree. If you are going to foul in that situation you better make it crystal clear.

Looked pretty clear from where I'm sitting. Besides, you don't want to take him down and get called for an intentional.

[Scrap Irony]

Speaking of fouling, Cousins is hacked every time he touches the ball. Hard. The two shot foul they called on the Cornell C was ridiculously poor. It was so obviously intentional that a grade school official could have called it.

That's four calls I've seen this year that should have resulted in either players being kicked out, technicals, or intentional fouls that weren't on Cousins alone.

He gets fouled more than anyone in college or the pros.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Looked pretty clear from where I'm sitting. Besides, you don't want to take him down and get called for an intentional.

The ref doesn't want to call that foul. You have to foul him hard enough to make him call it. That KState kid didn't.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Are you freaking kidding me????

[Reds Fanatic]

Double OT. What a fantastic game this has been.

[OnBaseMachine]

Crawford! WOW! A long three to tie the game. Double OT!

[Hoosier Red]

W-O-W

[Slyder]

Crawford! WOW! A long three to tie the game. Double OT!

He Shot that from freaking RENO.

[Scrap Irony]

Best game since Duke-UK in 1992?

[BuckeyeRed27]

He Shot that from freaking RENO.

Let's not get carried away. It was more like Provo.

[redsfan30]

I'm not sure if anything has been mentioned about this or not but...

Dear CBS,

Please promote Gus Johnson to your lead play by play man. He is awesome.

Thanks.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I'm not sure if anything has been mentioned about this or not but...

Dear CBS,

Please promote Gus Johnson to your lead play by play man. He is awesome.

Thanks.

I was just about to post a kudos to Gus Johnson. He has made this game even more awesome than it already is.

[OnBaseMachine]

I'm not sure if anything has been mentioned about this or not but...

Dear CBS,

Please promote Gus Johnson to your lead play by play man. He is awesome.

Thanks.

I love listening to Gus Johnson. I know a lot of people are turned off by his screaming but I think the dude is awesome. I really enjoy listening to him call a game.

[Scrap Irony]

I don't care for the screaming in normal times, but this game deserves it, for the most part.

This just in: Pulley is tough. So is Crawford. So is Holloway.

Can't wait to see how this ends.

[WMR]

I'll take almost anyone over Gus Johnson. Hate him equally doing Bengals games.

[WMR]

I will add that this is the one game where Gus' screaming isn't totally over the top.

[OnBaseMachine]

Kansas State has this one wrapped up.

KSU will play Butler for a spot in the Final Four. Go Butler!

[Scrap Irony]

Unfortunately, the X-KSU game ends with a whimper. Great game for sure, but it's got to eat at X fans what might have been.

[BuckeyeRed27]

What a great game though. That Butler/KState game on Saturday should be another good one.

[Caveat Emperor]

If I were a Xavier fan, this game would've made me sick. Make a couple of stops (or contest a 3 ball or two) and they're playing a Butler squad they match up with EXTREMELY well this weekend with a shot at the Final Four.

X really blew it tonight -- probably the best shot they'll ever have to make a Final Four.

On the plus side, though -- with my bracket trashed and no local teams and/or teams I really care about involved, I can skip the rest of the tournament until the national title game.

[reds1869]

Unfortunately, the X-KSU game ends with a whimper. Great game for sure, but it's got to eat at X fans what might have been.

What might have been won't get us anywhere. That was a great game and I feel strangely calm. I'm normally crushed when Xavier loses in the tourney, but I'm more proud of the team's heart than anything tonight. I think it is because I didn't expect to make it to this point at the beginning of the season. Congrats to KSU on a great game.

[Hoosier Red]

That game was phenomenal, easily the best of a tournament that hasn't been lacking for great games.

I wish Jackson had gone straight up with his shot or passed it off. Once he held back he was out of rhythm it looked like.

[OnBaseMachine]

Xavier gave KSU way too many wide open three's. They could and should have won that game. A win there matches them up with Butler for a chance at a Final Four spot against either Tennessee, Ohio State, Northern Iowa, or Michigan State, all of which Xavier is capable of beating. That was a great game though. Great season for Xavier.

Now I'm rooting for a Butler/Northern Iowa and West Virginia/St. Mary's Final Four.

[Spazzrico]

What might have been won't get us anywhere. That was a great game and I feel strangely calm. I'm normally crushed when Xavier loses in the tourney, but I'm more proud of the team's heart than anything tonight. I think it is because I didn't expect to make it to this point at the beginning of the season. Congrats to KSU on a great game.

I feel the exact same way. I had low expectations on the season when Brown left and a rookie HC. Mack went from 0-60 in one season and proved he is a damn good in-game coach as well as recruiter. I hope so badly that Crawford stays. I want to see him with one more year of development. Plus he'll be in line for the first round pick...

Great season!

[Caveat Emperor]

What might have been won't get us anywhere. That was a great game and I feel strangely calm. I'm normally crushed when Xavier loses in the tourney, but I'm more proud of the team's heart than anything tonight. I think it is because I didn't expect to make it to this point at the beginning of the season. Congrats to KSU on a great game.

Yeah -- but win this game and you're in an elite-8 matchup that you're probably favored to win.

That'd make me sick if I was an X fan. A chance to go to the Final Four without having to play a national powerhouse like Duke or North Carolina? That's not exactly a situation you find yourself in everyday.

I can understand the "didn't expect to even make it this far," but the tournament set up perfectly for Xavier to take that proverbial "next step" and they blew it. If they'd contested a few 3-balls down the stretch, they'd have had a legit shot to run straight to the National title game.

[Spazzrico]

Yeah -- but win this game and you're in an elite-8 matchup that you're probably favored to win.

That'd make me sick if I was an X fan. A chance to go to the Final Four without having to play a national powerhouse like Duke or North Carolina? That's not exactly a situation you find yourself in everyday.

I can understand the "didn't expect to even make it this far," but the tournament set up perfectly for Xavier to take that proverbial "next step" and they blew it.

We played Duke in our first Elite-8 and if it wasn't for some extremely bull**** calls on Myles, we were there. I don't know about blowing it though. I really feel like KSU was a bad matchup for them and they played an insane game to keep them somewhat contained. I think you are right though that Butler is a team they can handle, especially having played them earlier and almost beating them on their home court. Oh well. Sigh.

[reds44]

I have no idea what whoever was guarding Pullen on his last 3 was doing. How you could possibly go under a screen there is beyond me.

[Razor Shines]

So Memphis was never a legit shot to win it all when they were a #1 seed out of C-USA?

Of course they did, but the power conferences have teams like Memphis consistently. Memphis was blessed with a great coach who was an even better recruiter. I don't even care about this argument though, Butler won and I'm thrilled. I wish I was in Broad Ripple tonight.

[Hoosier Red]

Of course they did, but the power conferences have teams like Memphis consistently. Memphis was blessed with a great coach who was an even better recruiter. I don't even care about this argument though, Butler won and I'm thrilled. I wish I was in Broad Ripple tonight.

I tried to get my buddy to watch the game in Broad Ripple but he wanted to actually have a seat. What a silly idea.

[Razor Shines]

I tried to get my buddy to watch the game in Broad Ripple but he wanted to actually have a seat. What a silly idea.

Haha. I talked to a couple of my friends who did go to Broad Ripple (and are probably still there) and they said every bar was packed before the game, but after it was just nuts.

[dsmith421]

Xavier gave KSU way too many wide open three's.

The game was ultimately won by Jacob Pullen (who got a lengthy rest due to foul trouble) outwitting Dante Jackson twice on stack plays. It's really really tough for me, as someone who has played a lot of basketball, to kill a kid for making a couple bad decisions under that kind of pressure.

Xavier never had this game won. That's ridiculous. Their biggest lead was two points. K-State started two seniors and three juniors. It was an uphill battle from the word go, and they played their ass off and gave themselves a chance. Not bad for some program that is allegedly second-rate because it can't just up and choose to join the Big East.

[OnBaseMachine]

I don't see anyone on here "killing" the kid for making a bad decision. Xavier played a great game, as did KSU. That's gotta be the best game of the tournament so far.

[Caveat Emperor]

Xavier never had this game won. That's ridiculous. Their biggest lead was two points. K-State started two seniors and three juniors. It was an uphill battle from the word go, and they played their ass off and gave themselves a chance. Not bad for some program that is allegedly second-rate because it can't just up and choose to join the Big East.

I don't know -- for a program that yearns to be treated with the same respect as the guys who play in the Big East, saying "Not bad..." strikes me as an incredibly mid-major attitude. Part of being a "major" program is never being satisfied with a result other than a championship. It's almost an attitude thing: we start every year with a goal of being national champions and we consider it a disappointment when we fall short of that goal. No "moral victories" and no excitement and self-congratulation over top-16 finishes.

The bigger issue for me, as a non-Xavier fan (but someone who pulls for Xavier to do well as a hometown-pride thing), is that this was another big-game letdown for Xavier -- much like UCLA in '08 and Duke in '04. I understand they've been underdogs in every major tournament game they've played, but eventually Xavier needs to get a big win if they ever want to move to the proverbial "next level." As it stands, they're still a program that has never made it to a Final Four. At some point, you'd hope, they figure out a way to win a game like tonight's and string together a deeper run into the tournament.

Until they do that, they're never going to get the respect they want as a program.

[Roy Tucker]

I have no idea what whoever was guarding Pullen on his last 3 was doing. How you could possibly go under a screen there is beyond me.

They showed a replay from the other end of the court. KSU ran a double screen on the baseline and you could see Holloway get caught up in them. He was about 10 ft. behind by the time Pullen took his jumper. Got no help but help is hard to come by that late in double OT.

Great game to watch. Some of those 3's that Crawford hit were ridiculous. X never quite got past the tipping point where they had a lead they could do something with. It felt like they ran uphill the whole game.

And it kept me up way past my bedtime. Fun, though.

[bucksfan2]

That game was phenomenal, easily the best of a tournament that hasn't been lacking for great games.

I wish Jackson had gone straight up with his shot or passed it off. Once he held back he was out of rhythm it looked like.

Some guys like that little slide and dribble in shooting 3's. Its a rhythm mechanism and Jackson was on line, just a little short.

I despise listening to Enberg. IMO Gus Johnson is the best the NCAA has to offer. He can go over the top, but his voice and inflection give you a good description of how the game is going. IMO I would much rather listen to a final game of Gus Johnson and either Elmore or Kellogg rather than Nantz. Both Nantz and Enberg are "smooth" play by play, but they show very little emotion. College basketball is full of emotion.

As for Xavier's final four runs I think one will come. I can't remember much of the Duke game but when they played UCLA they just got beat by one of the top 2 teams in the country. I hadn't really seen KSU play this season but they are a final four caliber team. 2 quality guards and good athletic size. They remind me of UC back in Huggins glory days.

[Hoosier Red]

Some guys like that little slide and dribble in shooting 3's. Its a rhythm mechanism and Jackson was on line, just a little short.

I despise listening to Enberg. IMO Gus Johnson is the best the NCAA has to offer. He can go over the top, but his voice and inflection give you a good description of how the game is going. IMO I would much rather listen to a final game of Gus Johnson and either Elmore or Kellogg rather than Nantz. Both Nantz and Enberg are "smooth" play by play, but they show very little emotion. College basketball is full of emotion.



Enberg still brings it on occassion but I'm afraid the game moves too fast for him.

[RichRed]

And it kept me up way past my bedtime. Fun, though.

I recorded it and watched it early this morning. What an amazing game, and who better than Gus Johnson to scream it at us. (I like Gus AND Enberg, for the record.)

[dsmith421]

I don't know -- for a program that yearns to be treated with the same respect as the guys who play in the Big East, saying "Not bad..." strikes me as an incredibly mid-major attitude. Part of being a "major" program is never being satisfied with a result other than a championship.

Then there are effectively only 12-15 major programs in the country, because that's how many teams go into a season expecting to win a title. Which doesn't square with any definition of "mid-major" I've ever heard before. Would UC fans this year have been satisfied with a Sweet 16? They'd be over the moon.


It's almost an attitude thing: we start every year with a goal of being national champions and we consider it a disappointment when we fall short of that goal. No "moral victories" and no excitement and self-congratulation over top-16 finishes.

Where do you see self-congratulation and excitement? I'm pissed they lost. But I'm not so myopic as to believe XU has a birthright to win the national title every year. If I wanted that, I'd root for Kentucky.


The bigger issue for me, as a non-Xavier fan (but someone who pulls for Xavier to do well as a hometown-pride thing), is that this was another big-game letdown for Xavier -- much like UCLA in '08 and Duke in '04.

Duke in 2004 was a letdown? Seriously? Going toe-to-toe with the most legendary basketball program in recent times, a team that started four NBA first round picks, and losing a one possession game is a "letdown"?


I understand they've been underdogs in every major tournament game they've played, but eventually Xavier needs to get a big win if they ever want to move to the proverbial "next level."

On that we can agree.

[Hoosier Red]

I truly understand your frustration DSmith, but I think part of the reason Xavier gets slapped with the mid-major label is that they make such a fuss about it whenever it's brought up. If you're going to do that, you have to win a big game against a top 10 team in the tournament and make a run.

Now that said, the larger reason they're slapped with the mid major label is that the media is lazy.

[dsmith421]

I truly understand your frustration DSmith, but I think part of the reason Xavier gets slapped with the mid-major label is that they make such a fuss about it whenever it's brought up.

I personally wish they wouldn't dignify a stupid and arbitrary designation primarily based on college football by responding to it at all.


If you're going to do that, you have to win a big game against a top 10 team in the tournament and make a run.

I don't even think it's that. It's getting a Final Four under their belt, regardless of who they beat. I hate to keep bringing up UC, but they went to their early-90s final four by beating teams seeded (IIRC) 13, 9, 5, and 6, with the last being a Memphis team they'd destroyed three times already that season. No one ever questioned their legitimacy as a top tier program after that. So your point is well taken, and that's what pisses me off so much about XU coming out flat in the first six minutes last night, because a rematch with Butler is just about the most favorable Elite Eight matchup X could get.

What I categorically reject is the idea that I'm displaying a "mid-major attitude" by being proud of a team that lost it's coach and over 3000 points of production plus an entire recruiting class and still won its league, 26 games, and returned to the Sweet Sixteen.

[Roy Tucker]

I recorded it and watched it early this morning. What an amazing game, and who better than Gus Johnson to scream it at us. (I like Gus AND Enberg, for the record.)

Yeah, I had that thought during the game. Gus got pretty cranked up last night and it made me chuckle. I like Gus and Enberg both as well.

Enberg can still let loose with a good "ohhh... myyy.." every so often but he is getting a little long in the tooth. But I have liked and appreciated him for a long time.

That game last night reminded me a bit of UD-UCLA game from 1974 Sweet 16when the Flyers took the vaunted Bruins to triple-overtime before losing 110-100.

Like last night with X and KSU, non-stop action, play after play, both teams playing well and going at each other tooth and nail, and a shame someone had to lose.

[Hoosier Red]

I don't even think it's that. It's getting a Final Four under their belt, regardless of who they beat. I hate to keep bringing up UC, but they went to their early-90s final four by beating teams seeded (IIRC) 13, 9, 5, and 6, with the last being a Memphis team they'd destroyed three times already that season. No one ever questioned their legitimacy as a top tier program after that. So your point is well taken, and that's what pisses me off so much about XU coming out flat in the first six minutes last night, because a rematch with Butler is just about the most favorable Elite Eight matchup X could get.

What I categorically reject is the idea that I'm displaying a "mid-major attitude" by being proud of a team that lost it's coach and over 3000 points of production plus an entire recruiting class and still won its league, 26 games, and returned to the Sweet Sixteen.

I agree with each of those points. UC didn't suddenly become a "major program" when they went from C-USA to the Big East.

[Chip R]

I agree with each of those points. UC didn't suddenly become a "major program" when they went from C-USA to the Big East.


But are they a major program now?

[redhawkfish]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/ncaa-tournament-proving-that-midmajor-semiupperlow,17154/

I thought this was kind of funny based on the conversation.

[Hoosier Red]

But are they a major program now?

I don't think anyone calls them a mid-major do they? And that's the irony in this, according to whatever standards the media puts on Xavier, Butler, et al.. UC has become a major program as it has found its way to the bottom.

[Reds4Life]

But are they a major program now?

UC was a major before the Big East, and still is. They have won 2 national titles, and multiple trips to the final four.

I watched the game last night, it seemed like for the last few minutes of regulation, and both OT's, it was a 3 point shooting contest for both teams. Xavier make some freak 3 pointers that kept them in the game. If they had won, facing Butler was probably the most favorable matchup they would ever get to make it to a final four.

[Chip R]

I don't think anyone calls them a mid-major do they? And that's the irony in this, according to whatever standards the media puts on Xavier, Butler, et al.. UC has become a major program as it has found its way to the bottom.

They don't call them a mid-major because they are in the Big East. By definition, every program in a BCS conference is a major program. However, by some standards, they could be seen as a mid-major program due to their lack of recent success. If you were to compare Xavier's resume and UC's resume over the past 10 years and have someone pick the major program and the mid-major program without seeing the names of the schools, most would pick Xavier.


UC was a major before the Big East, and still is. They have won 2 national titles, and multiple trips to the final four.

That may be true but that last Final Four was almost 20 years ago and the last national title was about 50 years ago.

[cumberlandreds]

Xavier,Butler,Gonzaga and maybe a few others are mid majors in name only. Their play over the last few years show they deserve to be in the same talk as the big guys of the college world. They are just in conferences where most of the rest of the teams can't compete consistently with the teams from major conferences like the Big East,ACC etc...
Thus they are stuck with the mid major label. But die hard college basketball fans know better.

[Chip R]

Xavier,Butler,Gonzaga and maybe a few others are mid majors in name only. Their play over the last few years show they deserve to be in the same talk as the big guys of the college world. They are just in conferences where most of the rest of the teams can't compete consistently with the teams from major conferences like the Big East,ACC etc...
Thus they are stuck with the mid major label. But die hard college basketball fans know better.


I agree. However the problem isn't with the die-hard fans. It's with the less die-hard fans or the ones that are pretty much only interested in how their alma mater or adopted team is doing and the respective conference their team is in. When they turn on ESPN, they see Vitale shouting about Duke, Carolina, Georgetown, Kentucky, Syracuse, Connecticut, and perhaps a few more. Rarely if ever do the talking heads say anything about Butler or Gonzaga or Xavier unless they are playing a team from a BCS conference.

But you know, even though the label of "mid-major" is somewhat demeaning, it isn't that bad. National expectations aren't usually high; most of the time the kids are going to stick around for 4 years instead of putting in a cameo appearance for a year and then going pro; getting in trouble with the NCAA isn't usually a problem (Unless Caliperi has coached at your school). When your school does well in the NCAAs, you have people rooting for your team that usually don't have a rooting interest. Besides their alums and their fans, how many people are rooting for a team like Duke or Kentucky? They aren't feel good stories like St. Marys or Butler or Xavier or Cornell.

[bucksfan2]

I agree. However the problem isn't with the die-hard fans. It's with the less die-hard fans or the ones that are pretty much only interested in how their alma mater or adopted team is doing and the respective conference their team is in. When they turn on ESPN, they see Vitale shouting about Duke, Carolina, Georgetown, Kentucky, Syracuse, Connecticut, and perhaps a few more. Rarely if ever do the talking heads say anything about Butler or Gonzaga or Xavier unless they are playing a team from a BCS conference.

But you know, even though the label of "mid-major" is somewhat demeaning, it isn't that bad. National expectations aren't usually high; most of the time the kids are going to stick around for 4 years instead of putting in a cameo appearance for a year and then going pro; getting in trouble with the NCAA isn't usually a problem (Unless Caliperi has coached at your school). When your school does well in the NCAAs, you have people rooting for your team that usually don't have a rooting interest. Besides their alums and their fans, how many people are rooting for a team like Duke or Kentucky? They aren't feel good stories like St. Marys or Butler or Xavier or Cornell.

To be honest Chip I think Gonzaga is thought of as one of the big boys. To me its because of their scheduling and playing the big boys out of conference. Xavier has begun to do that as of late, especially with KSU, UC, and Florida all on their non conference schedule this season.

If you play in a non-BCS conference and want to be considered a legit power you need to schedule heavy in the non-conference. Even last season with Davidson they over scheduled because they had Curry on their team. So yea Vitale may be screaming Duke and Carolina all season long but teams like Northern Iowa, Butler, and X all got a some recognition as the season went along. I think Saint Mary's flew under the radar a little because they were over shadowed by Gonzaga and needed to win their conference tournament to get in. I think now people will realize that Saint Mary's has built a pretty strong program.

[Chip R]

To be honest Chip I think Gonzaga is thought of as one of the big boys. To me its because of their scheduling and playing the big boys out of conference. Xavier has begun to do that as of late, especially with KSU, UC, and Florida all on their non conference schedule this season.

If you play in a non-BCS conference and want to be considered a legit power you need to schedule heavy in the non-conference. Even last season with Davidson they over scheduled because they had Curry on their team. So yea Vitale may be screaming Duke and Carolina all season long but teams like Northern Iowa, Butler, and X all got a some recognition as the season went along. I think Saint Mary's flew under the radar a little because they were over shadowed by Gonzaga and needed to win their conference tournament to get in. I think now people will realize that Saint Mary's has built a pretty strong program.


The problem is that a lot of BCS conference teams won't have anything to do with the so-called mid-majors. UNI had to play in the Paradise Jam tournament over the holidays to get the opportunity to play a Big East team in De Paul and an ACC team in B.C. If they hadn't inexplicably lost to De Paul, they would have played Tennessee from the SEC. UNI also plays Iowa and Iowa State every year. Unfortunately both teams were bad this year so that didn't help them out much. They played Siena and participated in the MVC-MWC challenge where they played Wyoming and the Bracketbusters where they played Old Dominion. Except for the De Paul game, they won every other game. The other non-conference games were at Denver and at North Dakota. So it's not as easy as it sounds. The mid-major teams can't just snap their fingers and expect Duke and Kentucky to come calling.

[dabvu2498]

Mid-major, schmid-major.

Does being a "mid-major" hurt Xavier (or Butler or Gonzaga) in recruiting? Winning games? Making the tournament? Winning games in the tournament? Going to the Sweet 16? Does it somehow hurt their financial bottom-line?

I don't think so. So who cares?

[macro]

The only way UK loses this tournament is if they beat themselves.

If the free throw shooting doesn't improve, they will do just that.

[macro]

I'm not sure if anything has been mentioned about this or not but...

Dear CBS,

Please promote Gus Johnson to your lead play by play man. He is awesome.

Thanks.

His call of Andre Caldwell's TD reception to give the Bengals the win at Baltimore this past season is one I'll never forget. I like Gus.

[reds44]

They showed a replay from the other end of the court. KSU ran a double screen on the baseline and you could see Holloway get caught up in them. He was about 10 ft. behind by the time Pullen took his jumper. Got no help but help is hard to come by that late in double OT.

Great game to watch. Some of those 3's that Crawford hit were ridiculous. X never quite got past the tipping point where they had a lead they could do something with. It felt like they ran uphill the whole game.

And it kept me up way past my bedtime. Fun, though.
He tried going under the screen though. Once he did that, Pullen leaked out top and it was easy money. You have to fit through those screens there.

[OnBaseMachine]

Gus Johnson soundboard...

http://www.gusjohnsongetsbuckets.com/

[paintmered]

The term "mid-major" is nothing more than a label that identifies conference affiliation or lack of historical national prominence. It's completely independent of how talented or successful a team is.

Also, if your team doesn't have the right conference, it takes more than even a Final Four appearance to lose the label. I've yet to see George Mason lose their mid-major label. Conversely, look at Providence. They're a high-major team and would have finished in the bottom half of any conference this year.

[improbus]

Gus Johnson soundboard...

http://www.gusjohnsongetsbuckets.com/

My friends and I have been laughing about that all weekend.

One of my favorite all time Gus moments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poWDJdcAbX4

[OnBaseMachine]

Ohio State leads Tennessee 57-56 with just under eight minutes remaining.

Baylor is crushing St. Mary's 54-21 with a little over 15 minutes left. I'm very surprised by that score ... I thought St. Mary's would win that game.

[OnBaseMachine]

Tennessee now leads OSU 68-63 with 3:50 remaining...

[OnBaseMachine]

74-73 Tennessee with 12.9 seconds left and Tenn is shooting free throws...

He makes them both. 76-73 Tennessee...

[OnBaseMachine]

Tennessee wins 76-73.

[paintmered]

As a UC fan, it's interesting to watch a team like Tennessee play with such a high basketball IQ down the stretch. I have a much higher opinion of the job Bruce Pearl is doing in Knoxville now than I did before the game. Really impressive stuff, and it highlights how far Mick's gang still have to go.

Also, Evan Turner is an absolute beast. I hope all you Buckeye fans delighted in watching him this season because players of that caliper don't come around often.

In other news, Baylor is finishing off St. Mary's in a blowout.

[dabvu2498]

As a UC fan, it's interesting to watch a team like Tennessee play with such a high basketball IQ down the stretch.

:eek:

There's a first time for everything. I have a feeling I won't be the only SEC guy to comment on that statement.

Though, in fairness, Pearl has done a good job this year, all things considered.

[paintmered]

:eek:

There's a first time for everything. I have a feeling I won't be the only SEC guy to comment on that statement.

Though, in fairness, Pearl has done a good job this year, all things considered.

This is the first time I've seen them play this year. I gather that they looked different today than they have during the season?

Really, my previous opinion of Pearl was that he was a novelty with all the chest painting and theatrics.

[dabvu2498]

This is the first time I've seen them play this year. I gather that they looked different today than they have during the season?

Really, my previous opinion of Pearl was that he was a novelty with all the chest painting and theatrics.

That would be the consensus around most SEC fans. Good recruiter also. Good motivator.

Game preparation/management... not so great.

They have studs.

[macro]

Purdue's wearing black uniforms with black numbers. Whose idea was that?!

[Reds Fanatic]

Northern Iowa looking good again up 7 on Michigan State at the half.

[Joseph]

go NIU!

[KronoRed]

Purdue's wearing black uniforms with black numbers. Whose idea was that?!

Sounds like something the Bengals would do

St.Mary's didn't look like they belogned in the same galaxy as Baylor.

[OnBaseMachine]

Northern Iowa is going to end up losing this game because their 84% and 87% free throw shooters can't make a free throw tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Northern Iowa also did not hit a FG for about the last 10 minutes of the game.

[macro]

It was those dag gone officials! If it wasn't for them UT could have taken 'em to OT, I just know it.

When does Spring football start?

What a difference two weeks makes. :)

[Razor Shines]

Moved from Kentucky thread


Since I'm tired of my words getting picked apart, this is the last post I'm making on this subject.

I thought WVU deserved the 1, but didn't care about it as long as we were in the same bracket as Duke. We didn't end up in the same bracket as Duke, so then I said that I will only be upset if we lose to UK in the elite 8, and it is looking like that is going to happen tomorrow. If we didn't make the elite 8, we've got no one to blame but ourselves. Therefore, I'm upset.

WVU can't be put in the same bracket as a 2 seed with a 1 seed from its own conference, so we couldn't be put with the number 4 #1 seed (Syracuse). Therefore, we should have been put with the #3 1 seed. We weren't, and Duke got the number 4 #2 seed in its bracket. That is not fair.

And again, I don't think WVU has nearly as strong of a case against Syracuse as it does against Duke. Cuse beat us on our home floor, lost 4 games all season long, won the conference by 2 games, and had many many more quality wins than Duke did.

And again, Duke got the 1 seed because of the name on the front of the jersey, not because of the resume.

I don't know what you're talking with your words getting picked apart. You've been making the argument in this thread and the other that WVU should have been @#1 over Duke, sorry for thinking that you believed what you posted and responding to it, but whatever.

The emboldened part is what I have a problem with because it's not true. Duke and WVU are a TOSS UP, you could make an argument that WVU should be the #3 1 seed and Duke as the #4, but Duke was one of the top 4 teams in the country and I think they've proven that. They easily beat down a decent Cal team and beat really good Purdue team. Purdue's a 2 seed if Hummel doesn't get hurt, but they're still a tough 4 seed without him. Duke played really good ball down the stretch. They really became a much better team once Zoubek got in shape as was able to become somewhat of a force down low.

Have they gotten seeds in the past because of their name? Sure, but so have a whole lot of other teams. This year though they were one of the top four teams, if you want to put them 4th behind WVU that's fine there's certainly an argument for that. If one of the 1's were over seeded this year it was Syracuse.

[Scrap Irony]

Respectfully, horsecrap.

Duke is a #1 because they're Duke and their path through the tournament was scripted to provide an easy avenue to this round.

You argue that Cal was good? Really? Cal lost double digit games this year in perhaps the weakest major conference in NCAA history. And it isn't like they were even good in that conference Cal was a doormat for most of the season. They beat a very poor Louisville team (who had already mailed it in, losing to Cincinnati in the Big East conference) in the first round. How does Duke get any credit for that?

And Purdue? A good team? The same team that lost by 40+ points in the Big Ten Tournament just days before the NCAA Tourney began? No team who loses by 40 should ever be confused with a good team. Ever. They have exactly three players that can shoot. Total. A good team? No chance.

No, Duke's had a cakewalk (they didn't deserve) through opponents they should have man-handled.

(And yeah, I HATE Duke, so all of this is probably completely biased.)

[rdiersin]

Respectfully, horsecrap.


And Purdue? A good team? The same team that lost by 40+ points in the Big Ten Tournament just days before the NCAA Tourney began? No team who loses by 40 should ever be confused with a good team. Ever. They have exactly three players that can shoot. Total. A good team? No chance.



:rolleyes:
One game. It takes an adjustment when you lose your best player. Yeah, they aren't a great offensive team without Hummel, but they are a great defensive team even without Hummel. So, please just stop it, they are a good team. Also, last I looked that Purdue team did beat WVU by 15 earlier this year.

[Scrap Irony]

Earlier this year with Hummel. Without him, they're a middle of the pack major conference team that might hope to win half their games. At best. They just don't have enough shooters without their best player.

Not a great team as was proven both in the Big Ten Tourney and in the NCAA.

[Razor Shines]

Respectfully, horsecrap.

Duke is a #1 because they're Duke and their path through the tournament was scripted to provide an easy avenue to this round.

You argue that Cal was good? Really? Cal lost double digit games this year in perhaps the weakest major conference in NCAA history. And it isn't like they were even good in that conference Cal was a doormat for most of the season. They beat a very poor Louisville team (who had already mailed it in, losing to Cincinnati in the Big East conference) in the first round. How does Duke get any credit for that?

And Purdue? A good team? The same team that lost by 40+ points in the Big Ten Tournament just days before the NCAA Tourney began? No team who loses by 40 should ever be confused with a good team. Ever. They have exactly three players that can shoot. Total. A good team? No chance.

No, Duke's had a cakewalk (they didn't deserve) through opponents they should have man-handled.

(And yeah, I HATE Duke, so all of this is probably completely biased.)

Yeah it is. Have you watched Duke play this year? Did you watch Purdue play them last night? Purdue is still a very, very good defensive team without Hummel and I'm an IU fan so I don't really like Purdue. That Purdue team is at least as good as, probably better than the Butler team that beat Syracuse.

Back to Duke. I know you were the one that said their defense is all "flops and flails. Play defense like a man." Respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about. Watch them play defense and tell me they're not an excellent defensive team this year. They're a much better defensive team than they've been in a long time. They're a better team than Syracuse and deserved the #1 seed.

And I said that Cal was decent and the game was over at halftime. Also a Cal team that beat Louisville, who everyone was picking to knock off Duke.

[Scrap Irony]

I've seen them play 30 times this year.

Both Purdue and Duke lack athleticism. Like Butler, Northern Iowa, or any number of teams this year, they look like great defensive teams when playing a team of similar athletic ability.

And I cannot believe you can claim Duke doesn't flop and flail at charges. They are the kings of pretend.

[Razor Shines]

I've seen them play 30 times this year.

Both Purdue and Duke lack athleticism. Like Butler, Northern Iowa, or any number of teams this year, they look like great defensive teams when playing a team of similar athletic ability.

And I cannot believe you can claim Duke doesn't flop and flail at charges. They are the kings of pretend.

No more than most other teams in the country, but it's the popular opinion of those who hate Duke so have at it. I'm sure you'll find plenty of support on this site, I have this argument every year it's just usually with WMR. Damn it, I really tried to let negative comments about Duke slide this season, almost made it the whole year.

[Homer Bailey]

Here is the go to question that I've asked about 5 times, and since no one has officially answered it, I think it makes the answer very clear, and my point valid.

If you COMPLETELY switched Duke's and WVU's resume (Wins, RPI, SOS, Top 25 wins, etc.), who do you think gets the #1 seed, Duke or WVU?

The answer is clearly Duke.

Edit: And my point the entire time has been, if you aren't going to give us a one seed, give us a chance to beat Duke (in their bracket). Don't cop out and make sure that one of UK and WVU doesn't make the final 4.

[improbus]

Cal vs. Hugs. Good times for all.

[rdiersin]

Earlier this year with Hummel. Without him, they're a middle of the pack major conference team that might hope to win half their games. At best. They just don't have enough shooters without their best player.

Not a great team as was proven both in the Big Ten Tourney and in the NCAA.

I would agree that they aren't a great team, but I still can't get how they are a bad team and would only win half their games in conference. They are a great defensive team. Period. Yeah, they have struggled on offense, but they have won. They lost three games without Hummel. One to MSU. One to Duke. The blowout was to Minn, however in the game in which Hummel got hurt Minn took a good sized lead and Purdue came back and beat them, at Minnesota. I am not going to argue that they are some great team but when someone says that they aren't good and wouldn't win half their games, I have to question whether they have seen this team at all this year or that they are just making statements to try and make Duke look worse. If its the later, I find that sad.

[Razor Shines]

Here is the go to question that I've asked about 5 times, and since no one has officially answered it, I think it makes the answer very clear, and my point valid.

If you COMPLETELY switched Duke's and WVU's resume (Wins, RPI, SOS, Top 25 wins, etc.), who do you think gets the #1 seed, Duke or WVU?

The answer is clearly Duke.



And as I've said over and over, there is an argument to be made for WVU getting a number 1 seed over Duke, but Duke is better than Syracuse. So like I've said Duke could have been the 4th #1 with WVU being the 3rd, but as it is Duke was the 3rd #1 and Syracuse was the 4th.

You're making it sound an awful lot like someone was out to get WVU.

[redhawkfish]

Does the selection commitee rank any seeds after the one seeds? Is there a top number 2 seed that gets bracketed with a weak one seed. It seems like it would be a huge hassle to rank every numbered seed.

[Razor Shines]

Well I think it was pretty clear that they thought that Syracuse was the 4th #1 because they were sent out West. And we know that Kansas was #1 and clearly Kentucky is ahead of Duke.

[Homer Bailey]

Does the selection commitee rank any seeds after the one seeds? Is there a top number 2 seed that gets bracketed with a weak one seed. It seems like it would be a huge hassle to rank every numbered seed.

Yes. They put the number 1 two seed in the position they feel is most favorable, which is why they used the excuse that they put WVU close to home to try to explain how they matched them up with the #2 overall. This of course is a bunch of baloney, as everyone knew the UK fans were going to buy up all the seats, and still create a homecourt advantage, but the selection committee did their best to try to spin their awful decision.