2010 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament

[macro]

Discussion of the tournament was getting started in the UK thread, but I think it warrants a thread of its own. Let's keep the UK thread for general discussion of the program and include tournament-related UK discussion in this one. It will prevent people having to read both threads to see all the tournament-related discussion.

As was mentioned in that thread, Kansas and Kentucky seemed to get the #5 and #6 teams in the tournament in WVU and Ohio State. The committee even admitted that those two were the next in consideration for #1 seeds. It doesn't seem quite fair to those four teams, but anyway...

Mississippi State got a bad deal by being left out, and Florida should put the committee members on their Christmas card list. Just goes to show that unless you actually win one of these conference tournaments, they are largely meaningless exhibitions. MSU beat Florida by seven points in the SEC tournament Friday.

[KronoRed]

MSU beat Florida by seven points in the SEC tournament Friday.
...and lost to them in the regular season.

Utah St stole their spot not Florida :p:

[Reds Fanatic]

The times have been released for the first round games:




Thursday


(All times Eastern)

Florida vs. BYU, 12:20 p.m.

Old Dominion vs. Notre Dame, 12:25 p.m.

Robert Morris vs. Villanova, 12:30 p.m.

Murray State vs. Vanderbilt, 2:30 p.m.

North Texas vs. Kansas State, 2:40 p.m.

Sam Houston St. vs. Baylor, 2:45 p.m.

St. Mary's vs. Richmond, 2:50 p.m.

UTEP vs. Butler, 4:45 p.m.

N. Iowa vs. UNLV, 7:10 p.m.

East Tennessee St. vs. Kentucky, 7:15 p.m.

Washington vs. Marquette, 7:20 p.m.

Ohio vs. Georgetown, 7:25 p.m.

Lehigh vs. Kansas, 9:30 p.m.

Wake Forest vs. Texas, 9:35 p.m.

Montana vs. New Mexico, 9:40 p.m.

San Diego St. vs. Tennessee, 9:45 p.m.

Friday
Morgan State vs. West Virginia, 12:15 p.m.

Minnesota vs. Xavier, 12:25 p.m.

Cornell vs. Temple, 12:30 p.m.

Siena vs. Purdue, 2:30 p.m.

Missouri vs. Clemson, 2:35 p.m.

Oakland vs. Pittsburgh, 2:45 p.m.

Wofford vs. Wisconsin, 2:50 p.m.

Utah St. vs. Texas A&M, 4:45 p.m.

Florida State vs. Gonzaga, 7:10 p.m.

Georgia Tech vs. Oklahoma St., 7:15 p.m.

New Mexico St. vs. Michigan St., 7:20 p.m.

Ark.-PB/Winthrop vs. Duke, 7:25 p.m.

Vermont vs. Syracuse, 9:30 p.m.

Santa Barbara vs. Ohio State, 9:35 p.m.

Houston vs. Maryland, 9:40 p.m.

Louisville vs. California, 9:45 p.m.

[bucksfan2]

Some thoughts

-Kansas was my pick to win the tournament, they got a bad draw, but I still think they win it all.

-Before the tourney started I thought UK would be the first #1 team to lose. Too much youth, reminds me a lot of the OSU team with Oden who almost bowed out early to X. I do like their draw and Texas would scare me, but there is a reason they are a 8 Seed.

-I wonder if Syracuse has the necessary toughness to win. From what I have seen they are more of a soft, finesse team.

-I wouldn't want to face MSU because of Izzo, Minnesota because of Tubby, and Pitt because of Dixon.

-A lot of people are down on Vilanova. I don't know, I really like Jay Wright as a coach and they have veteran guard leadership.

[cumberlandreds]

WVU and Ohio State got shafted. They should have been 2 seeds in the South and West. Just terrible seeding job done by the NCAA. GTown and Villanova should have been flipped in seedings. Duke have no one to blame but themselves to make the Final Four. Saying that,a true cinderella team may come from that region. It's easily the weakest region.
I was shocked to see Florida make it. Miss State deserved it more than them. But Miss State has no one to blame but themselves for not making it. When lose to Rider,WKU,Auburn and Alabama and don't balance it off with some really good wins you leave yourself wide open not to make it.
I'm tired of hearing Seth Greenburg whine about not making it too. When you play a non conference schedule that is ranked 337 in the RPI you don't deserve to be in it. That's just horrible scheduling and tells me he just wants to fatten his resume with wins.

[WVRed]

Some thoughts

-Kansas was my pick to win the tournament, they got a bad draw, but I still think they win it all.

-I wouldn't want to face MSU because of Izzo, Minnesota because of Tubby, and Pitt because of Dixon.


That is my upset special of the tournament. I have Michigan State knocking off Kansas in the Sweet 16. Izzo has the players and the coaching experience to match up full throttle against Bill Self. Also thinks Georgetown beats Ohio State to reach the Final Four in the Midwest region.


I was shocked to see Florida make it. Miss State deserved it more than them. But Miss State has no one to blame but themselves for not making it. When lose to Rider,WKU,Auburn and Alabama and don't balance it off with some really good wins you leave yourself wide open not to make it.

Agreed on all points, but Florida making it over Mississippi State was for one reason and one reason alone. $$$$$$

[Boston Red]

Florida making it over Mississippi State was for one reason and one reason alone. $$$$$$

How do you figure? It's not as though Florida has some sort of huge basketball fan following that is going to sell more tickets or cause many more people to tune in. I'd be surprised if there are a thousand Florida fans in OK City Thursday afternoon. I would expect them to be outnumbered by BYU fans.

[WVRed]

How do you figure? It's not as though Florida has some sort of huge basketball fan following that is going to sell more tickets or cause many more people to tune in. I'd be surprised if there are a thousand Florida fans in OK City Thursday afternoon. I would expect them to be outnumbered by BYU fans.

Compared to Mississippi State, I would say there would be plenty more pull for Florida compared to Starkville. I do agree on the BYU point though.

Funny Seth Greenberg was mentioned earlier. I wonder if Florida had missed the field if he and Billy Donovan would be campaigning to expand the tournament to 96 teams? :)

On a somewhat related note, there are people who are debating Kentucky having to play Texas in New Orleans and the supposed home field advantage Texas is going to have. The point was made though that Texas fans are not going to travel to Louisiana to see "this year's team".

[Boston Red]

Kentucky fans would outnumber Texas fans if they played in Houston.

[Sea Ray]

WVU and Ohio State got shafted. They should have been 2 seeds in the South and West. Just terrible seeding job done by the NCAA. GTown and Villanova should have been flipped in seedings.



There was someone from the committee on ESPN this morning and he said they were all clustered in the Midwest due to geography. I don't think they should be seated according to geography. They should seed 1-16 and send them wherever. I don't think they've always done it this way.

[Razor Shines]

Well, I said earlier this season when Texas was ranked #1 that I wanted to see UT and UK play. I've been to a few of the games this year, and I still think they have the talent to beat UK, but Barnes doesn't have any control over that team. It's been kinda sad to see it fall apart.

They have the talent to beat Wake whether they play as a team or not, but it will be close and it wouldn't surprise me if they got beat. If they play as a team they can give Kentucky a good game, but I expect Texas to get blown out if they make it that far.

[joshnky]

-I wonder if Syracuse has the necessary toughness to win. From what I have seen they are more of a soft, finesse team.

Syracuse is hardly soft with a front court of Onuaku, Jackson, and Joseph. Their problem will be match-ups against the zone. Some teams (Louisville this year) give them lots of trouble.



-I wouldn't want to face MSU because of Izzo, Minnesota because of Tubby, and Pitt because of Dixon.

I agree on MSU and will spread that to cover the Big Ten. For that reason, I think the team UK fans should be most worried about is Wisconsin. Big Ten teams usually do well in the tourney and Wisconsin's style could be a nightmare for a young team.

On the other hand, Jamie Dixon is a terrific coach but his teams always underachieve in the tournament.

[WVRed]

Well, I said earlier this season when Texas was ranked #1 that I wanted to see UT and UK play. I've been to a few of the games this year, and I still think they have the talent to beat UK, but Barnes doesn't have any control over that team. It's been kinda sad to see it fall apart.

They have the talent to beat Wake whether they play as a team or not, but it will be close and it wouldn't surprise me if they got beat. If they play as a team they can give Kentucky a good game, but I expect Texas to get blown out if they make it that far.

I was worried about a possible UK-Texas matchup but I am starting to think the second round isn't going to be a problem. It won't be a cakewalk, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over playing Texas or Wake.

Texas's team this year reminds me of UK's "Team Turmoil" which ended up as 8 or 9 seeds and spiraled out of control. They have the athleticism and depth to match Kentucky, but no clear leader or PG on that team.

Wake OTOH is led by Dino Gaudio, who might be the definition of a D-1 coach that is in over his head.

[cumberlandreds]

There was someone from the committee on ESPN this morning and he said they were all clustered in the Midwest due to geography. I don't think they should be seated according to geography. They should seed 1-16 and send them wherever. I don't think they've always done it this way.

If that's was the reason then that was shear stupdity. I just don't think they knew what they were doing. having Ohio State,Georgetown and Kansas in the same region is just stupid.

[cumberlandreds]

I was worried about a possible UK-Texas matchup but I am starting to think the second round isn't going to be a problem. It won't be a cakewalk, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over playing Texas or Wake.

Texas's team this year reminds me of UK's "Team Turmoil" which ended up as 8 or 9 seeds and spiraled out of control. They have the athleticism and depth to match Kentucky, but no clear leader or PG on that team.

Wake OTOH is led by Dino Gaudio, who might be the definition of a D-1 coach that is in over his head.

Either one will be tough but I think UK will beat either in the end. These two aren't 8/9 seeds for no reason. They have issues whether it be on the court or off.

[Hoosier Red]

Syracuse is hardly soft with a front court of Onuaku, Jackson, and Joseph. Their problem will be match-ups against the zone. Some teams (Louisville this year) give them lots of trouble.



I agree on MSU and will spread that to cover the Big Ten. For that reason, I think the team UK fans should be most worried about is Wisconsin. Big Ten teams usually do well in the tourney and Wisconsin's style could be a nightmare for a young team.


The conference has made strides recently but I seem to remember years in the mid AUGHTs where the Big 11 didn't get a team out of the first weekend.

Wisconsin seems to be either/or in the tournament. Either they pound teams into submission, or they can't score 40 points.

[Homer Bailey]

WVU got the shaft by not getting a 1 seed over Duke, then to top it off, the committee avoids putting WVU with Duke because they don't want to be proven wrong.

Honestly, I didn't care if we got a 2 seed and got put in Duke's bracket, but the #5 team shouldn't have to play the #2 team (UK). It's not fair to either UK or WVU. If WVU doesn't make the elite 8, I've got nothing to complain about, but if we lose to UK in the elite 8, I'm going to be furious.

If you can come up with a legit argument for Duke getting the 1 seed over WVU, I would LOVE to hear it. Their resumes are not even comparable.

[Hoosier Red]

WVU got the shaft by not getting a 1 seed over Duke, then to top it off, the committee avoids putting WVU with Duke because they don't want to be proven wrong.

Honestly, I didn't care if we got a 2 seed and got put in Duke's bracket, but the #5 team shouldn't have to play the #2 team (UK). It's not fair to either UK or WVU. If WVU doesn't make the elite 8, I've got nothing to complain about, but if we lose to UK in the elite 8, I'm going to be furious.

If you can come up with a legit argument for Duke getting the 1 seed over WVU, I would LOVE to hear it. Their resumes are not even comparable.

The whole geographic considerations strike me as a weak cop-out.
I can maybe see the idea if say there's a Pac-10 school and an ACC school that are close in rankings, deciding to send the Pac-10 school to the West Region and the ACC school to the East or South region because there isn't a whole lot of reason to send both teams across the country.

But with the West so weak this year, no matter what, somebody was going to be flying out there, so they should have thrown the geographic considerations out the window.

[KronoRed]

Funny Seth Greenberg was mentioned earlier. I wonder if Florida had missed the field if he and Billy Donovan would be campaigning to expand the tournament to 96 teams? :)

Didn't see anything about Donovan even campaigning for the Gators to get in, but don't let that get in the way of your agenda :thumbup:

[joshnky]

If you can come up with a legit argument for Duke getting the 1 seed over WVU, I would LOVE to hear it. Their resumes are not even comparable.

Using Ken Pomeroy's rankings:
Duke is #1 compared to WVU at #8
Duke won 12 out of their last 13 and the only bad loss was to NC State
WVU won 10 out of their last 13 and the only bad loss was to Connecticut
Duke's SOS was #4 compared to WVU at #2
Both teams were the benefit of upsets in the conference tournaments so that they didn't have to face the other top teams.

Now, I'm a Big East fan and will be rooting for West Virginia. Conversely, I think Duke is overrated and Louisville could potentially upset them in the second round. However, their body of work is very similar and Duke finished the year a little more strongly than WVU. Really, there is a large group of teams lumped together on that one-two line that were deserving. Once you get past UK and KU, teams like Syracuse, Duke, WVU, and OSU are all about equal in terms of resume.

Honestly, I thought Duke was a lock for a one seed and that WVU would be the #1 seed over Syracuse.

[Homer Bailey]

Using Ken Pomeroy's rankings:
Duke is #1 compared to WVU at #8
Duke won 12 out of their last 13 and the only bad loss was to NC State
WVU won 10 out of their last 13 and the only bad loss was to Connecticut
Duke's SOS was #4 compared to WVU at #2
Both teams were the benefit of upsets in the conference tournaments so that they didn't have to face the other top teams.

Now, I'm a Big East fan and will be rooting for West Virginia. Conversely, I think Duke is overrated and Louisville could potentially upset them in the second round. However, their body of work is very similar and Duke finished the year a little more strongly than WVU. Really, there is a large group of teams lumped together on that one-two line that were deserving. Once you get past UK and KU, teams like Syracuse, Duke, WVU, and OSU are all about equal in terms of resume.

Honestly, I thought Duke was a lock for a one seed and that WVU would be the #1 seed over Syracuse.


Ken Pomeroy??? Who in the world is that? I understand you had to pull something our your rear to argue for Duke, but honestly, who is that guy?

Top 15 RPI Wins:
Duke: ZERO
WVU: SIX!

WVU has beaten: Gtown (TWICE), Nova, Pitt, Ohio State, A&M, Marquette, Notre Dame, Ole Miss

Duke got THROTTLED by Georgetown. I mean ran out of the gym.

WVU plays in the best conference in the land, AND had the number 2 OOC SOS!

Duke lost by double digits to flippin NC State. WVU's "worst loss" was at UCONN, which shot 42 (42!) Free throws in one of the worst homer jobs ever.

Tell me this, if the resumes were flipped, do you think WVU would have gotten the 1 seed? Or do you think Duke got it because of the name on the front of the jersey? Not directly these comments/questions directly at you, just more at the selection committee. I imagine you were just playing devil's advocate.

[Hoosier Red]

Ken Pomeroy??? Who in the world is that? I understand you had to pull something our your rear to argue for Duke, but honestly, who is that guy?

Top 15 RPI Wins:
Duke: ZERO
WVU: SIX!

WVU has beaten: Gtown (TWICE), Nova, Pitt, Ohio State, A&M, Marquette, Notre Dame, Ole Miss

Duke got THROTTLED by Georgetown. I mean ran out of the gym.

WVU plays in the best conference in the land, AND had the number 2 OOC SOS!

Duke lost by double digits to flippin NC State. WVU's "worst loss" was at UCONN, which shot 42 (42!) Free throws in one of the worst homer jobs ever.

Tell me this, if the resumes were flipped, do you think WVU would have gotten the 1 seed? Or do you think Duke got it because of the name on the front of the jersey? Not directly these comments/questions directly at you, just more at the selection committee. I imagine you were just playing devil's advocate.


Ken Pomeroy's a guy you should get to know HB, he's really put a lot of the new thoughts into understanding how best to differentiate teams.
Oddly enough, I don't think committee members take into account what games were THE WORST HOMER JOBS EVER.

[Homer Bailey]

Ken Pomeroy's a guy you should get to know HB, he's really put a lot of the new thoughts into understanding how best to differentiate teams.
Oddly enough, I don't think committee members take into account what games were THE WORST HOMER JOBS EVER.

Then completely throw that factor out. Still not comparable resumes, and my question was still not answered. If you do the blind resume test, no question WVU gets it. When you attach the names to the resumes, Duke gets it.

[joshnky]

Ken Pomeroy??? Who in the world is that? I understand you had to pull something our your rear to argue for Duke, but honestly, who is that guy?

Pomeroy is widely considered to be one of the best in the business. His computer rankings are flawed (like the RPI) but are still a valid measure of a team. Even using your preferred measure, Duke was ranked #3 in the RPI.

I'll gladly have a real debate with someone but not when they clearly don't know what they're talking about.

[joshnky]

WVU's "worst loss" was at UCONN, which shot 42 (42!) Free throws in one of the worst homer jobs ever.

It all even's out. WVU also beat Louisville in the worst piece of end game officiating this season.

[TeamSelig]

I really wanted to put Texas over Wake Forest, but I can't get past WF's 8th best FG defense.

What do you guys think about Maryland? Looking at stats, I really want to send them far into the tourney, but I just can't get myself to do it.

13th best FG defense
21st best turnover margin
31st best FG%

[Homer Bailey]

Pomeroy is widely considered to be one of the best in the business. His computer rankings are flawed (like the RPI) but are still a valid measure of a team. Even using your preferred measure, Duke was ranked #3 in the RPI.

I'll gladly have a real debate with someone but not when they clearly don't know what they're talking about.

Clearly don't know what they're talking about? Hah. I asked to compare the resumes, and you picked out one comment I made about the officiating, and that one is. None of my other points were refutable. Still think I'm on the wrong side?

http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=2194&tid=132317495&mid=132317495&sid=1146&style=2

And regarding the UL game, Mazzula was tripped and hit, so there should have been a foul called. Did it go off his head? Of course, but there was an equally missed call right before that.

And the next call, the ball clearly goes off the UL player if you watch the replay. Granted the officials misused the replay monitor, and should not have been able to do so to make that call, but in the end the correct call was made.

[joshnky]

I asked to compare the resumes, and you picked out one comment I made about the officiating, and that one is. None of my other points were refutable.

I gave you a comparison using Ken Pomeroy's rankings which you refused to acknowledge as credible. When you used RPI for your basis I pointed out that the RPI ranks Duke ahead of WVU. I realize you're a WVU fan and can't be objective; however, computer rankings have these teams very close and even favor Duke. To say there is "no" comparison between the two doesn't hold up. As I pointed out before, WVU likely deserved a one seed but over Syracuse not Duke.

And I 100% disagree with your assessment of the Louisville game but I don't want to derail the thread with something that happened in January.

[Homer Bailey]

I gave you a comparison using Ken Pomeroy's rankings which you refused to acknowledge as credible. When you used RPI for your basis I pointed out that the RPI ranks Duke ahead of WVU. I realize you're a WVU fan and can't be objective; however, computer rankings have these teams very close and even favor Duke. To say there is "no" comparison between the two doesn't hold up. As I pointed out before, WVU likely deserved a one seed but over Syracuse not Duke.

And I 100% disagree with your assessment of the Louisville game but I don't want to derail the thread with something that happened in January.

So there is ONE GUY out there who has some crazy numbering system that makes Duke the #1 team in the country (which alone should discredit this guys rankings). You got me there. I shouldn't have said there is "no" comparison.

Apparently 90% of the people polled in that poll agree with me that the resumes really aren't very close at all. Duke made their resume by beating the bottom half of the RPI top 50, and getting ZERO wins over the RPI top 15! They get to play in the extremely generous ACC, got TROUNCED when they played the 8th place Big East team, and lost by double digits to an awful NC State team.

And still, no one will address this question: If the resumes were COMPLETELY reversed, and it was WVU with zero top 15 RPI wins, and Duke with 6 top 15 RPI wins, who gets the 1 seed?

Edit: Just checked out Pomeroy's rankings. Wisconsin is #3. Do you really want to use these rankings in your argument?

[BuckeyeRed27]

The difference between Duke and WVU is pretty small. There are certainly areas of both resumes that could easily have made either team a #1. Yes you are probably right that Duke got the #1 because they are Duke. Life's not fair so deal with it. Really the difference I see for WVU is which order you play Kentucky and Duke because you are probably going to have to beat them both anyways.

[Homer Bailey]

The difference between Duke and WVU is pretty small. There are certainly areas of both resumes that could easily have made either team a #1. Yes you are probably right that Duke got the #1 because they are Duke. Life's not fair so deal with it. Really the difference I see for WVU is which order you play Kentucky and Duke because you are probably going to have to beat them both anyways.

Which is why I have a gripe with it. If we were the 2 seed in Duke's bracket, I wouldn't say a word. I'd actually be ecstatic. I think we deserved to not have to face the big 3 in our first four games. We deserved to face the worst #1 seed based on us finishing 5th (I realize that Duke got the #3 1 seed, which I think is equally ridiculous). If we would have been in Duke's bracket, beaten Duke, and lost to UK, I could accept it. If Duke would have beaten us, I can accept it.

What I can't stand is the thought of us losing to UK when I feel we deserved an easier route. If we lose before the elite 8? No excuses. I have no case, and I won't whine about the seeding. If we get beat by UK in the elite 8, I'm going to be feel screwed. My goal is the final four, and I think we earned the right to be the 2 seed in the south.

[Boston Red]

Duke might be better than Kentucky. The Cats haven't exactly been battle tested this year.

[Homer Bailey]

Duke might be better than Kentucky. The Cats haven't exactly been battle tested this year.

Could be. But every Duke and WVU fan knows that is an absolutely perfect matchup for us. Our length was a huge problem for Duke 2 years ago when we spanked them in the NCAA's, and it would be an even bigger problem this year.

UK has the bodies and athleticism to match up with WVU. I don't think Duke does.

[Hoosier Red]

So there is ONE GUY out there who has some crazy numbering system that makes Duke the #1 team in the country (which alone should discredit this guys rankings). You got me there. I shouldn't have said there is "no" comparison.

Apparently 90% of the people polled in that poll agree with me that the resumes really aren't very close at all. Duke made their resume by beating the bottom half of the RPI top 50, and getting ZERO wins over the RPI top 15! They get to play in the extremely generous ACC, got TROUNCED when they played the 8th place Big East team, and lost by double digits to an awful NC State team.

And still, no one will address this question: If the resumes were COMPLETELY reversed, and it was WVU with zero top 15 RPI wins, and Duke with 6 top 15 RPI wins, who gets the 1 seed?

Edit: Just checked out Pomeroy's rankings. Wisconsin is #3. Do you really want to use these rankings in your argument?

Actually apparantly according to Pomeroy AND RPI, Duke comes out ahead of West by gawd.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/polls
http://kenpom.com/rate.php

but why let facts get in the way when you can froth at the mouth.

[Hoosier Red]

Care to try to name the 128 #1 seeds since 1979?

http://www.sporcle.com/games/Feely/alltime1seeds

[Homer Bailey]

Actually apparantly according to Pomeroy AND RPI, Duke comes out ahead of West by gawd.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/polls
http://kenpom.com/rate.php

but why let facts get in the way when you can froth at the mouth.

Wow. Duke is #3 in RPI, and WVU is #4. What a mind-blowingly excellent argument for Duke. Clear cut who is better when you look at those numbers isn't it.

Who has more top 50 RPI wins?
Who has more top 100 RPI wins?
Who has more top 25 RPI wins?
Who has more top 15 RPI wins?
Who has the higher SOS?
Who has the higher OOC SOS?
Who has the better conference RPI?
How did Duke do against the 8th place Big East team? A team WVU beat twice?
Name ONE win better that WVU's SIX best wins?

Sorry, why should I let these facts get in the way?

[rdiersin]

So there is ONE GUY out there who has some crazy numbering system that makes Duke the #1 team in the country (which alone should discredit this guys rankings). You got me there. I shouldn't have said there is "no" comparison.

Apparently 90% of the people polled in that poll agree with me that the resumes really aren't very close at all. Duke made their resume by beating the bottom half of the RPI top 50, and getting ZERO wins over the RPI top 15! They get to play in the extremely generous ACC, got TROUNCED when they played the 8th place Big East team, and lost by double digits to an awful NC State team.

And still, no one will address this question: If the resumes were COMPLETELY reversed, and it was WVU with zero top 15 RPI wins, and Duke with 6 top 15 RPI wins, who gets the 1 seed?

Edit: Just checked out Pomeroy's rankings. Wisconsin is #3. Do you really want to use these rankings in your argument?

Pomeroy's ratings are based on efficiency margins, i.e. Points per possession on offense and defense. Not really that crazy. Seems like a pretty reasonable way to assess a team to me. But hey don't let that stop a good rant.

Oh, and by the way, while Wisconsin might not be the 3rd best team in the country, they are a very good team. They may not look like much, but they are so efficient and don't have many wasted possessions.

[Revering4Blue]

If you can come up with a legit argument for Duke getting the 1 seed over WVU, I would LOVE to hear it.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/13/1813273/ncaa-caves-to-tv-pressure-by-going.html



NCAA caves to TV pressure by going easy on Duke

[Homer Bailey]

Pomeroy's ratings are based on efficiency margins, i.e. Points per possession on offense and defense. Not really that crazy. Seems like a pretty reasonable way to assess a team to me. But hey don't let that stop a good rant.

Oh, and by the way, while Wisconsin might not be the 3rd best team in the country, they are a very good team. They may not look like much, but they are so efficient and don't have many wasted possessions.

Grasping for straws really.

Honestly, if the best case for Duke over WVU is some efficiency rating that has Wisconson as #3 in the country and WVU as #8 in the country, then you've made my case for me. It takes a rating system actually doesn't factor in the results of games (based on your description) to "defeat" my argument. Laughable truly.

We all really know why Duke got it.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Well as much fun as it would be to talk about Duke/WVU for the next 8 pages....

I already hate my bracket. Final Four I've got Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia and Duke.

[WVRed]

Could be. But every Duke and WVU fan knows that is an absolutely perfect matchup for us. Our length was a huge problem for Duke 2 years ago when we spanked them in the NCAA's, and it would be an even bigger problem this year.

UK has the bodies and athleticism to match up with WVU. I don't think Duke does.

To be honest, I wouldn't have as much a gripe with WVU being in over Duke as much as I would have it being over Syracuse. Losing your last regular season game to Louisville followed by an early exit to Georgetown in the Big East tournament shouldn't qualify for a number one seed. At least Duke won their conference tournament (even if the ACC is down this year).

FWIW, if Kentucky loses to WVU, Kentucky fans are going to be livid for pretty much the exact same reason. Why should Kentucky have to face the best no 2 seed in West Virginia when they were the number two overall seed?

The way I would have done the 1/2 matchups (leaving everything intact):

Midwest=Kansas vs Villanova
East=Kentucky vs Kansas St
South=Duke vs West Virginia
West=Syracuse vs Ohio State

[Homer Bailey]

To be honest, I wouldn't have as much a gripe with WVU being in over Duke as much as I would have it being over Syracuse. Losing your last regular season game to Louisville followed by an early exit to Georgetown in the Big East tournament shouldn't qualify for a number one seed. At least Duke won their conference tournament (even if the ACC is down this year).

FWIW, if Kentucky loses to WVU, Kentucky fans are going to be livid for pretty much the exact same reason. Why should Kentucky have to face the best no 2 seed in West Virginia when they were the number two overall seed?

The way I would have done the 1/2 matchups (leaving everything intact):

Midwest=Kansas vs Villanova
East=Kentucky vs Kansas St
South=Duke vs West Virginia
West=Syracuse vs Ohio State


Boom. There it is.

Although I don't have much of a gripe with Cuse getting a number 1 over us. They beat us on our home court, and won the league outright by 2 games. They lost 2 league games all year in the toughest conference in america.

[Hoosier Red]

Grasping for straws really.

Honestly, if the best case for Duke over WVU is some efficiency rating that has Wisconson as #3 in the country and WVU as #8 in the country, then you've made my case for me. It takes a rating system actually doesn't factor in the results of games (based on your description) to "defeat" my argument. Laughable truly.

We all really know why Duke got it.

Of course every poll listed there, AP, Coaches, CBS's own special poll, the computers and Ken Pomeroy all had Duke ahead of West Virginia. Take your questions to them.

[rdiersin]

Grasping for straws really.

Honestly, if the best case for Duke over WVU is some efficiency rating that has Wisconson as #3 in the country and WVU as #8 in the country, then you've made my case for me. It takes a rating system actually doesn't factor in the results of games (based on your description) to "defeat" my argument. Laughable truly.

We all really know why Duke got it.

I'm not really trying to "defeat" your argument. I thought before you criticize something you obviously don't know about you might like to try to understand it. My mistake for trying to even engage you in a conversation.

I could care less about Duke's seeding.

[WVRed]

Boom. There it is.

Although I don't have much of a gripe with Cuse getting a number 1 over us. They beat us on our home court, and won the league outright by 2 games. They lost 2 league games all year in the toughest conference in america.

At the same time, WVU managed to win the "toughest conference in America" and has been ranked highly all season. I think the fact that they won the Big East tournament should hold some merit for a number one seed, especially with a team that lost their last two games.

It can't be worse than Washington winning the Pac-10 tournament about five years ago despite barely being ranked and getting a number one seed.

[Homer Bailey]

Of course every poll listed there, AP, Coaches, CBS's own special poll, the computers and Ken Pomeroy all had Duke ahead of West Virginia. Take your questions to them.

That's exactly my point. Somehow Duke gets rated ahead of WVU in all polls despite having an obviously inferior resume.


I'm not really trying to "defeat" your argument. I thought before you criticize something you obviously don't know about you might like to try to understand it. My mistake for trying to even engage you in a conversation.

I could care less about Duke's seeding.

You're right. Wrong word on my part. I misconstrued your post, and I apologize.

[rdiersin]

That's exactly my point. Somehow Duke gets rated ahead of WVU in all polls despite having an obviously inferior resume.



You're right. Wrong word on my part. I misconstrued your post, and I apologize.

No worries. If it makes you feel better, a good portion of the year WVU was higher than Purdue in Pomeroy and other ratings even though Purdue beat WVU handily. It doesn't always make sense, but I think it is important to see that they are unbiased as well.

[15fan]

I really wanted to put Texas over Wake Forest, but I can't get past WF's 8th best FG defense.

2 decade Deac fan here.

If there's one thing the Deacs do well and often, it's tank hard down the stretch. This year is no different. In the last 5 games, they have:

Lost by double digits on the road to the #11 team in the ACC (NC State)

Lost by double digits at home to the #10 team in the ACC (North Carolina)

Lost a road game at FSU in which they scored 47 points

Lost by 21 to the #12 (last place!) team (Miami) in the first round of the conference tourney.

Dino Gaudio got thrown into a tough situation when Prosser died. I'd love for him to do well. But after 3 years of watching him on the sideline, I've seen enough to know that he's a horrific in-game coach. Decent recruiter, but Xs and Os are wretched. LD Williams (the 2 guard) can't hit a jump shot to save his life. Ish Smith (PG) is abysmal at the FT line. Al-Farouq Aminu is a TO waiting to happen when he's not shooting 20% from behind the 3 point line.

The good news for brackets is that it doesn't really matter who wins the Texas-Wake game. Either team is going to get hammered by Kentucky in the 2nd round.

[Razor Shines]

Why does it matter if Duke didn't win any games against the top 15RPI if Duke being ranked ahead of WVU in RPI doesn't matter?:cry:

[Homer Bailey]

Why does it matter if Duke didn't win any games against the top 15RPI if Duke being ranked ahead of WVU in RPI doesn't matter?:cry:

RPI only factors in your winning percentage, your opponents winning percentage, and your opponents' opponents winning percentage.

Duke having a high winning percentage wins helps. Playing teams like Va Tech who have a high winning percentage helps, along with other ACC schools that play cupcake out of conference games. Acc has the worst OOC schedule of the big 6:

Pac 10 Sc = 0.653
Big 12 Sc = 0.564583
Big Ten Sc = 0.4863
Big East Sc = 0.44
SEC Sc = 0.425
ACC Sc = 0.377083

Leads to inflated ACC records, which leads to inflated RPI.

[joshnky]

So, it seems like Baylor is getting a lot of hype but I don't know much about them and really don't follow the Big 12. Are they a legit threat or a product of a conference that tends to underachieve in the tourney?

[Hoosier Red]

That's exactly my point. Somehow Duke gets rated ahead of WVU in all polls despite having an obviously inferior resume.



Inferior in your mind perhaps. But generally if the computer calculations(I don't think RPI cares about Duke) and the humans agree, my guess is it is more than the NCAA caving in to Duke. While it's certainly debateable whether or not Duke is better than WVU or should be rated higher, it is not clear cut that WVU should have gotten the #1 seed ahead of Duke.

To hear your rant, WVU clearly is the better team and clearly has the better resume, and yet is seeded lower.

All anyone has been saying is clearly that's not the case.

[Homer Bailey]

Inferior in your mind perhaps. But generally if the computer calculations(I don't think RPI cares about Duke) and the humans agree, my guess is it is more than the NCAA caving in to Duke. While it's certainly debateable whether or not Duke is better than WVU or should be rated higher, it is not clear cut that WVU should have gotten the #1 seed ahead of Duke.

To hear your rant, WVU clearly is the better team and clearly has the better resume, and yet is seeded lower.

All anyone has been saying is clearly that's not the case.

Fair enough. Although clearly 90% of the college basketball fans polled in the above poll agree with me.

[Hoosier Red]

Fair enough. Although clearly 90% of the college basketball fans polled in the above poll agree with me.

If the media and the NCAA can be accused of giving Duke the benefit of the doubt, the public at large can just as easily be accused of not doing so.

For the record, I think Duke got the easiest path to the final four and its a crock that WVU has to play in Kentucky's region. Until this year we had always heard that the committee ranks all teams 1-65 and then snakes back and forth unless there are conference entanglements to avoid. This nonsense of entering geographical concerns strikes me as a weak cop out.

[Homer Bailey]

If the media and the NCAA can be accused of giving Duke the benefit of the doubt, the public at large can just as easily be accused of not doing so.

For the record, I think Duke got the easiest path to the final four and its a crock that WVU has to play in Kentucky's region. Until this year we had always heard that the committee ranks all teams 1-65 and then snakes back and forth unless there are conference entanglements to avoid. This nonsense of entering geographical concerns strikes me as a weak cop out.

Agree with all of this.

[Razor Shines]

Who are WVU "SIX" wins against the top 15 RPI? ESPN shows they are 5-4 against the top 25 RPI.

[Homer Bailey]

Who are WVU "SIX" wins against the top 15 RPI? ESPN shows they are 5-4 against the top 25 RPI.

Is that counting Georgetown twice?

I've got Gtown (2)
Nova
OSU
A&M
Pitt

OSU is 22nd in RPI, my number was a big misleading. 6 wins against the RPI top 22.

[Razor Shines]

Is that counting Georgetown twice?

I've got Gtown (2)
Nova
OSU
A&M
Pitt

OSU is 22nd in RPI, my number was a big misleading. 6 wins against the RPI top 22.


I don't know who they have them beating. ESPN's Insider has them as 5-4 vs. the top 25 RPI. Maybe they go by how the team was ranked at the time they played, I don't know.



And I agree that WVU may be better than Duke, there's certainly an argument there. But I don't think it's completely ridiculous that Duke is #1 over WVU.

As for the 90% of college basketball fans agreeing with you. Well, most college basketball fans outside of NC HATE Duke, so big deal. And I'm not sure we should be making any conclusions based on an online poll. How many times did you vote?

[Homer Bailey]

I don't know who they have them beating. ESPN's Insider has them as 5-4 vs. the top 25 RPI. Maybe they go by how the team was ranked at the time they played, I don't know.



And I agree that WVU may be better than Duke, there's certainly an argument there. But I don't think it's completely ridiculous that Duke is #1 over WVU.

As for the 90% of college basketball fans agreeing with you. Well, most college basketball fans outside of NC HATE Duke, so big deal. And I'm not sure we should be making any conclusions based on an online poll. How many times did you vote?

You can only vote once. And I concede that there is a lot of hate for Duke, but those results were just ridiculous.

The ridiculous part to me is that if you flipped the two resumes, it would still be Duke getting the 1 seed. And like I said, I didn't mind getting the #2 in their bracket, and that is what I am most bitter about.

[TeamSelig]

Duke has the easiest route to the final four, that's not even debatable IMO.

[BRM]

As for the 90% of college basketball fans agreeing with you. Well, most college basketball fans outside of NC HATE Duke, so big deal. And I'm not sure we should be making any conclusions based on an online poll. How many times did you vote?

What? College hoops fans hate Duke? Say it ain't so. Why, I know for a fact that WMR is a HUGE Duke fan. Wears a Laettner jersey everywhere.

[hebroncougar]

What I can't stand is the thought of us losing to UK when I feel we deserved an easier route. If we lose before the elite 8? No excuses. I have no case, and I won't whine about the seeding. If we get beat by UK in the elite 8, I'm going to be feel screwed. My goal is the final four, and I think we earned the right to be the 2 seed in the south.

If players/coaches thought like this, it's what gets them beat in the 2nd round. Here's an easy solution, if you do get to play UK in the elite eight, beat them.

[Roy Tucker]

What I can't stand is the thought of us losing to UK when I feel we deserved an easier route. If we lose before the elite 8? No excuses. I have no case, and I won't whine about the seeding. If we get beat by UK in the elite 8, I'm going to be feel screwed. My goal is the final four, and I think we earned the right to be the 2 seed in the south.

Who do you play for? Shouldn't you be practicing?

;)

[Homer Bailey]

Who do you play for? Shouldn't you be practicing?

;)

:deadhorse

[WVRed]

WVU got the shaft by not getting a 1 seed over Duke, then to top it off, the committee avoids putting WVU with Duke because they don't want to be proven wrong.

Honestly, I didn't care if we got a 2 seed and got put in Duke's bracket, but the #5 team shouldn't have to play the #2 team (UK). It's not fair to either UK or WVU. If WVU doesn't make the elite 8, I've got nothing to complain about, but if we lose to UK in the elite 8, I'm going to be furious.

If you can come up with a legit argument for Duke getting the 1 seed over WVU, I would LOVE to hear it. Their resumes are not even comparable.

In accordance with Macro's request to keep UK discussion separate, I would be interested in your thoughts regarding a possible Kentucky-WVU matchup on the UK thread. I posted my thoughts about WVU (seeing them this season) and am curious how you feel WVU matches up with Kentucky.

[Cyclone792]

Personally, I'd have listed Syracuse as the 3rd #1 with West Virginia as the 4th #1 and Duke as the top #2. But then again, they're all fairly close so I can see arguments for any order amongst those three. In the end, the committee has to make a choice and the current setup is apparently the direction they chose to go.

Individual matchups are what people should be more concerned about anyway, not necessarily the name of the school on the opposing jersey. Whether you're a top seed or a two seed, if you run into a team in the second round or Sweet 16 that matches up well against you, you're in trouble before even thinking about the Elite 8.

[WMR]

What? College hoops fans hate Duke? Say it ain't so. Why, I know for a fact that WMR is a HUGE Duke fan. Wears a Laettner jersey everywhere.

Are you trying to trigger my upchuck reflex?

[macro]

In accordance with Macro's request to keep UK discussion separate, I would be interested in your thoughts regarding a possible Kentucky-WVU matchup on the UK thread. I posted my thoughts about WVU (seeing them this season) and am curious how you feel WVU matches up with Kentucky.

Actually, I was encouraging everyone to include their UK tournament discussion here instead of in the UK thread, but just to whatever is comfortable. :)

[BRM]

Are you trying to trigger my upchuck reflex?

It's been a long time since we've thrown friendly jabs. Just keeping it fun. :)

I miss the days of us dissing Razor with talk of floor-slapping guards and the art of the flop at good ole Duke.

[Hoosier Red]

To: Xavier fans
From: Fans of Big 10 schools
Re: Apologies for this idiot's ramblings

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/88295567.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUjc8LDyiUiD3aPc:_Yyc: aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

• Xavier is coached by a rookie who got his job only because his predecessors bail out for bigger paychecks as soon as they can. Chris Mack's salary is probably supplemented by free Skyline chili. Friday, for the first time, he'll be a head coach in an NCAA tournament game.

He'll be facing Tubby Smith, who makes millions of dollars a year and has taken four programs to the NCAA tournament. In fact, he's taken four programs to the tournament at least twice, and he won it all with Kentucky in 1998.

Let's hope Tubby The Titan doesn't allow himself, or his team, to pretend to be overmatched in this game.

And his record for overacheiving in the tournament is stellar, ask Kentucky fans, they were quite upset when he left as I remember

The Gophers play in a power conference, the Big Ten. Xavier plays in the Atlantic 10.

And the Big 10 has Indiana who couldn't beat anyone, oh wait they beat Minnesota

• The Gophers' key players all participated in the NCAA tournament last year. Xavier's best player, Jordan Crawford, is a transfer from Indiana.

Perhaps the dumbest argument of them all, Jordan Crawford has as much experience as the rest of the Gophers since his Indiana team lost in the 1st round of the 2008 tournament. 7 of the top 8 guys in the Muskie's rotation are sophomores or older which means they all have MORE experience than Minnesota because last year's team went to the Sweet Sixteen.

[Chip R]

To: Xavier fans
From: Fans of Big 10 schools
Re: Apologies for this idiot's ramblings

http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/88295567.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUjc8LDyiUiD3aPc:_Yyc: aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

• Xavier is coached by a rookie who got his job only because his predecessors bail out for bigger paychecks as soon as they can. Chris Mack's salary is probably supplemented by free Skyline chili.

That sounds like a pretty good deal to me. :beerme:

[Boston Red]

We heard it all from the Wisconsin camp before Xavier throttled them in the second round last year. I think this author just reused the same articles and changed some of the names.

[OnBaseMachine]

#15 seed Robert Morris leads #2 Villanova 28-22 at halftime.

[OnBaseMachine]

BYU leads Florida by eight with under 11 minutes to go.

[Redlegs212]

Im gettin scared for Nova..

[BRM]

ND and Old Dominion are tied up with 4 mins to play. Some good games here early in the day.

[OnBaseMachine]

BYU is in the process of blowing a 13 point lead with nine minutes to go. Now down to a 4 point lead with six minutes to go.

[Reds Fanatic]

3 good games going on right now. ND and Old Dominion tied at 46 with 1:47 left.

[OnBaseMachine]

Robert Morris leads Villanova 42-34 with 11:05 remaining.

[Reds Fanatic]

Notre Dame and Old Dominion going down to the wire. Old Dominion has a 3 point lead with 24 seconds left and Notre Dame has the ball.

[OnBaseMachine]

Meanwhile, Old Dominion just missed a free throw that could've put them up by four with 29 seconds left.

And BYU is still choking hard.

[BRM]

Florida has made a great comeback. ND and ODU are going down to the wire. Great start to the tournament so far today.

[OnBaseMachine]

ODU leads Notre Dame by three with 9.7 seconds remaining.

BYU is now losing.

[OnBaseMachine]

Old Dominion wins 51-50. One upset already.

[Reds Fanatic]

Florida - BYU tied. It looks like BYU got a timeout with a second left.

[Reds Fanatic]

The first OT game of the tournament as BYU and Florida head to OT.

[BRM]

An OT game already. Nice. Nova still down to Robert Morris.

[OnBaseMachine]

Villanova will win by I'm surprised at how long Robert Morris has hung in there. They lead by four with five minutes remaining.

[RichRed]

Old Dominion wins 51-50. One upset already.

Awesome. I grew up rooting for ODU; my parents graduated from there. The CAA strikes again.

[OnBaseMachine]

Robert Morris leads Villanova 55-47 with 3:57 remaining.

[BRM]

Looking like a rough tournament so far for the Big East. Villanova is now down by 8.

[RichRed]

By the way, Bill Simmons is doing a running chat all day for the NCAA tourney. Good stuff.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=5005238

[Reds Fanatic]

BYU and Florida still tied with 51 seconds left in OT.

[BRM]

Vanderbilt and Murray State are underway now.

[BRM]

Florida/BYU has been a heck of a game.

[OnBaseMachine]

Robert Morris is up four with 2:10 remaining. Only four #15 seeds have ever won a game...

[Reds Fanatic]

Double OT. What a great start to the tournament.

[BRM]

Robert Morris is up four with 2:10 remaining. Only four #15 seeds have ever won a game...

Can anyone name all four? Without looking it up, of course.

[Chip R]

Double OT for Florida and BYU.

[BRM]

What was the largest lead BYU had in the second half? Was it 13?

[OnBaseMachine]

Can anyone name all four? Without looking it up, of course.

Princeton and Hampton are the only two I can think of.

Robert Morris is giving it away. Villanova's last eight points have come from fouls.

[OnBaseMachine]

What was the largest lead BYU had in the second half? Was it 13?

13 point lead with 9 minutes left.

[BRM]

Princeton and Hampton are the only two I can think of.

Robert Morris is giving it away. Villanova's last eight points have come from fouls.

Vermont and Richmond jumped in my head for some reason but I could be wrong on both.

[BRM]

13 point lead with 9 minutes left.

Thanks. I thought it was 13.

[Reds Fanatic]

Can anyone name all four? Without looking it up, of course.

Richmond was one. I remember them beating Syracuse.

[OnBaseMachine]

Robert Morris has fouled Scotty Reynolds four times in the last minute and he's drained all eight free throws.

58-56 RMU with 1:03 left.

[OnBaseMachine]

BYU doesn't want to win. They can't stop turning the ball over.

[OnBaseMachine]

BYU is up by seven with 1:20 remaining. Can they hold on this time?

[Reds Fanatic]

Another OT game as Villanova and Robert Morris head to OT.

[OnBaseMachine]

Robert Morris and Villanova heading to OT. RMU doesn't stand a chance now, IMO.

[BRM]

BYU up 7 now with 33 seconds left. They should be able to hold on to that lead.

[OnBaseMachine]

BYU beats Florida 99-92. Nice.

Villanova is pulling away from Robert Morris in OT.

[Hoosier Red]

As for #15's that I remember:

Santa Clara beat Arizona
Hampton beat Iowa State
Richmond beat Syracuse

I never remember the 4th.

[KronoRed]

As for #15's that I remember:

Santa Clara beat Arizona
Hampton beat Iowa State
Richmond beat Syracuse

I never remember the 4th.

Robert Morris won't be the 5th, thankfully.

[Hoosier Red]

Just curious, how long do you guys root for your brackets? I usually turn mine in, assume I'm not going to win, and pull for the upsets all the time.

How many people would be upset if Robert Morris had won?

[Reds Fanatic]

Robert Morris is now down 1 with about 34 seconds left.

[KronoRed]

Just curious, how long do you guys root for your brackets? I usually turn mine in, assume I'm not going to win, and pull for the upsets all the time.

How many people would be upset if Robert Morris had won?

I didn't see anyone in here rooting for Florida to pull the upset :p:

Go big dogs :D

[BRM]

Robert Morris has cut the lead to 1.

[LoganBuck]

Robert Morris won't be the 5th, thankfully.

Robert Morris down by 1

[LoganBuck]

RM now down by 3

[LoganBuck]

Dude why don't you dunk that?

[KronoRed]

Robert Morris down by 1

3 now and they don't have the ball

Silly move by the Villanova player, take the shot.

[KronoRed]

Half court shots should be worth 4 points ;)

[LoganBuck]

This is an awesome ending so far.

[LoganBuck]

Half court shots should be worth 4 points ;)

Agree!

[OnBaseMachine]

Just curious, how long do you guys root for your brackets? I usually turn mine in, assume I'm not going to win, and pull for the upsets all the time.

How many people would be upset if Robert Morris had won?

I have Villanova going to the Final Four in some of my brackets but I was rooting for Robert Morris to win.

[BRM]

Vanderbilt and Murray State have a good one going so far.

[KronoRed]

Robert Morris goes down.

[Reds Fanatic]

Villanova holds on to win 73-70.

[LoganBuck]

Ugh, gotta get a better shot there.

Nova wins

[KronoRed]

"They only lost on the scoreboard"

Buddy, that's all that matters

[Boston Red]

Love to see Murray State get a big win here. Only 3 point dogs, and playing like it's basically an even matchup.

[BRM]

Murray State has a 4 point lead at the half, 36-32. Baylor is tied with Sam Houston State late in the 1st half.

[TeamSelig]

"They only lost on the scoreboard"

Buddy, that's all that matters

lol I thought the same thing.

I'm pulling for a Baylor loss, since I had Notre Dame beating them.

[Reds Fanatic]

Murray State is up 1 on Vanderbilt with 21 seconds left. Vanderbilt ball.

[Reds Fanatic]

Murray State with a buzzer beater to upset Vanderbilt.

[OnBaseMachine]

Wow. What a shot. Another upset.

[BRM]

Baylor is in a battle right now too. Tied up with under 4 minutes to play.

[Homer Bailey]

Perfection for me so far. Me likey.

[Caveat Emperor]

Perfection for me so far. Me likey.

5-5 thus far for me as well -- though, if past tournament pools are any indication, the wheels should start falling off somewhere around 9PM tonight.

[BuckeyeRed27]

For some reason I thought ND would be a great Elite 8 pick...oops
Got everything else so far.

[RichRed]

St. Mary's is threatening to ruin my perfect day so far.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The St. Mary's center has great touch but that guard can just stroke the 3. It is crazy how high he puts the ball in the air.

[Playadlc]

Richmond is awful.

[TeamSelig]

For some reason I thought ND would be a great Elite 8 pick...oops
Got everything else so far.

I had them going that far too. Glad I had a last second switch to the sweet 16.

Vandy screwed me over a little. I already have 2/16 wrong. Blah.

[reds1869]

Richmond is awful.

They are actually a pretty good team. I've watched them six times this year and this is by far the worst game they've played.

[BuckeyeRed27]

They are actually a pretty good team. I've watched them six times this year and this is by far the worst game they've played.

They just couldn't guard that big guy and when they tried they were leaving pretty good shooters open for 3. Game over.

[OnBaseMachine]

#14 Ohio leads #3 Georgetown by 13 with 4:15 remaining in the first half.

[redhawkfish]

I can't believe I am posting this, but go Bobcats!!

[reds1869]

I can't believe I am posting this, but go Bobcats!!

Same here. I have no love for OU, but it would be a great moment if they knocked off the Hoyas. Go Cats!

[Reds Fanatic]

Ohio up 12 at the half.

[Oxilon]

I had a feeling the Big East was overrated this season. Villanova snuck by the powerhouse, Robert Morris and Ohio is smacking Georgetown around at halftime. At this point, I'm fully expecting Oakland to give Pitt a hard time and Cal to pound Louisville. And let's not forget Bob Huggins and his tourney record. Still like Syracuse though, despite the injury to Onuaku.

[OnBaseMachine]

Ohio leads Georgetown by 16 with a little over 15 minutes remaining and Ohio has the ball...

[Boston Red]

Big East schools are not faring well (understatement alert).

[OnBaseMachine]

That Bassett guy from Ohio is unbelievable.

14 point lead for Ohio with 8:19 remaining.

[WVRed]

That Bassett guy from Ohio is unbelievable.

14 point lead for Ohio with 8:19 remaining.

Bassett played for Indiana and was one of the more outspoken players during the Kelvin Sampson era I believe.

[OnBaseMachine]

Georgetown is making a run. It's now 77-68 with 6:38 left.

[OnBaseMachine]

Back to a 10 point lead with 3:40 left.

[Boston Red]

Georgtown missed a three from the corner that would have cut it to three and then misses the front end of a one and one, and then Ohio cans a three at the other end. Huge momentum swing there. Going to be awfully tough now.

[OnBaseMachine]

Kentucky crushed ETSU. Northern Iowa knocked off UNLV 69-66.

Ohio leads by 14 with 50 seconds remaining...

[Caveat Emperor]

I'm watching the game, and I still don't believe what I'm seeing -- that Ohio U is threatening to drop a 100 spot on Georgetown...

...unreal.

[OnBaseMachine]

Ohio wins 97-83. Wow. Another huge upset. This has been a great first day.

[Chip R]

God bless Ali Farokhmanesh!!!!!

[WVRed]

Goodbye Athens, Ohio. WVU burns couches, Bobcat fans will torch the entire city. :)

[Boston Red]

Gary Trent and Geno Ford must have had huge games!

[Caveat Emperor]

Goodbye Athens, Ohio. WVU burns couches, Bobcat fans will torch the entire city. :)

The OUPD had better hope the kids are too hungover from St. Patrick's day to cause any real damage.

[Reds Fanatic]

Another great game going on now between Marquette and Washington

[improbus]

The OUPD had better hope the kids are too hungover from St. Patrick's day to cause any real damage.

And I'm jealous that I'm not there...

BTW, anyone else loving how bad the Big East is looking?

[Joseph]

Murray State Alum here.....very happy man right now.

[OnBaseMachine]

Another small upset as 11 seed Washington knocked off 6 seeded Marquette.

[WVRed]

And I'm jealous that I'm not there...

BTW, anyone else loving how bad the Big East is looking?

Loving it. Living in West Virginia it's definitely been fun.

I thought the Big 12 was the most overrated conference in college basketball, but the Big East is moving up there at lightspeed.

[Razor Shines]

Texas and Wake headed to OT.

[Reds Fanatic]

The 3rd OT game of the first day as Texas and Wake Forest go to OT. This is more OT games in one day than in the whole tournament last year.

[Reds Fanatic]

Tennesse holds on to win by 3 over San Diego State. I think it is like 9 games today that have went down to the wire.

[OnBaseMachine]

Texas leads Wake 80-79 with 15 seconds remaining in the first OT.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wow. What a day. Wake Forest wins on a shot with 1 second left.

[OnBaseMachine]

Wow, another awesome finish. Wake Forest wins 81-80 on a jumper with 1.3 seconds left.

[OnBaseMachine]

Oh, and there's another close game still going on. #3 New Mexico leads #14 Montana 53-52 with 3:36 to go.

[UKFlounder]

What an incredible day this has been. I hope tomorrow will be just as good

[Razor Shines]

Ok, I've seen two lane violations called today. Haven't seen that many the entire rest of the season.

[15fan]

:D

:beerme:

[Boston Red]

Based on that performance, Wake Forest and Texas should both be eliminated and Kentucky should be awarded a bye.

[Razor Shines]

Based on that performance, Wake Forest and Texas should both be eliminated and Kentucky should be awarded a bye.

I'm sure our resident WFU fan would have something to say about that.

[OnBaseMachine]

New Mexico hangs on to beat Montana 62-57.

[Hoosier Red]

5 point victory today is practically a blowout.

[WMR]

5 point victory today is practically a blowout.

They showed the Keith Smart shot in 87 during our game tonight. Hadn't seen that play in a long time.

[Scrap Irony]

Conference records/ thoughts after the first day:

Big XII 3-1
They didn't look all that great, but the tournament is young yet and they moved on. Kansas struggled for 30 minutes, Baylor didn't shoot well at all, and Texas is the biggest disappointment of the year. Only Kansas State played well in their 20-point win. Three more Big XII teams play tomorrow; if they kick tail, the Big XII could lay claim to being the best league in basketball.

ACC 1-0
Wake over Texas was perhaps the ugliest game the NCAA has seen in years. Neither team deserved to win. Five games on Friday will make or break their reputation as a disappointment this season. Only Duke and Maryland look to be clear favorites.

Pac 10 1-0
And, thankfully for the Pac, this season is now in the record books... Oh, Washington won? Welcome to the NCAA. It's parity, baby.

SEC 2-2
The SEC was a prayer and an OT game from being unbeaten. Of course, they were also a Melvin Goins' trey from being 1-3. Still, Kentucky may make it all moot in the end. That was the most dominating game on day one by a fairly wide margin.

Mountain West 2-2
Never leave a European player wide open with seconds left. What in the name of Jerry Tarkanian is going on with UNLV's (lack of) D? San Diego State played just well enough to lose against Tennessee. Still, a good first day from an underrated western conference.

Big East 1-3
Ouch. The Georgetown loss killed brackets and Big East momentum. Four teams (all but one a heavy favorite) play on Friday. Perhaps they wash this taste out of our mouths.

Still watching: The Big 10. All five teams play Friday.
The A-10 has two teams playing on Friday, as does the WAC, .

[TeamSelig]

2 decade Deac fan here.

If there's one thing the Deacs do well and often, it's tank hard down the stretch. This year is no different. In the last 5 games, they have:

Lost by double digits on the road to the #11 team in the ACC (NC State)

Lost by double digits at home to the #10 team in the ACC (North Carolina)

Lost a road game at FSU in which they scored 47 points

Lost by 21 to the #12 (last place!) team (Miami) in the first round of the conference tourney.

Dino Gaudio got thrown into a tough situation when Prosser died. I'd love for him to do well. But after 3 years of watching him on the sideline, I've seen enough to know that he's a horrific in-game coach. Decent recruiter, but Xs and Os are wretched. LD Williams (the 2 guard) can't hit a jump shot to save his life. Ish Smith (PG) is abysmal at the FT line. Al-Farouq Aminu is a TO waiting to happen when he's not shooting 20% from behind the 3 point line.

The good news for brackets is that it doesn't really matter who wins the Texas-Wake game. Either team is going to get hammered by Kentucky in the 2nd round.

Thanks guy. I actually put Texas over WF after reading what you put. I'm blaming you for my bracket failure. ;)

[joshnky]

Based on that performance, Wake Forest and Texas should both be eliminated and Kentucky should be awarded a bye.

According to Ken Pomeroy's rankings Wake Forest is the fifth best team UK will have played this year, ranking slightly behind Miss St and UofL. They also have the second highest defensive efficiency of any team UK has played all year. On the other hand, according to Pomeroy, Texas would have been the best team by far that UK would have played to date if they had beaten Wake.

All of this means nothing except to suggest that Wake Forest will be a tougher match up than ETSU.

[15fan]

If Wake wins, it is one of the biggest tourney shockers in a long time.

If Wake loses, it won't matter as the loss will eventually be expunged after the inevitable NCAA investigation of Calipari & Kentucky. ;)

[reds1869]

Still watching: The Big 10. All five teams play Friday.
The A-10 has two teams playing on Friday, as does the WAC, .

The A-10 picked up a loss by Richmond yesterday. I thought from the outset that St. Mary's was much better than a 10 seed and that proved to be the case.

[joshnky]

Big East 1-3
Ouch. The Georgetown loss killed brackets and Big East momentum. Four teams (all but one a heavy favorite) play on Friday. Perhaps they wash this taste out of our mouths.

There is no doubt that the Big East was over-rated this year (I fully expect Pitt to lose today) but I think this is more indicative of the overall climate than one conference. Really, outside of two teams, the rest of the major conference field has been mediocre this year. In fact, if the committee hadn't paired up so many mid-majors in the bracket, I imagine that you'd see even more upsets because of the extreme mount of parity this season.

[dabvu2498]

There is no doubt that the Big East was over-rated this year (I fully expect Pitt to lose today) but I think this is more indicative of the overall climate than one conference. Really, outside of two teams, the rest of the major conference field has been mediocre this year. In fact, if the committee hadn't paired up so many mid-majors in the bracket, I imagine that you'd see even more upsets because of the extreme mount of generally bad basketball this season. There. That is more like it.

[NJReds]

Loving it. Living in West Virginia it's definitely been fun.

I thought the Big 12 was the most overrated conference in college basketball, but the Big East is moving up there at lightspeed.

Additionally, St. John's and Seton Hall crashed out of the NIT. I think it's clear that the Big East was average at best this year.

[WVRed]

Additionally, St. John's and Seton Hall crashed out of the NIT. I think it's clear that the Big East was average at best this year.

I posted in the UK thread that I think the Big East isn't so much overrated as much as it is beaten black and blue from conference and tournament play.

From top to bottom, the Big East is the most powerful conference in college basketball. It's down considerably compared to last year, but its still the top conference in terms of strength.

The problem is the same argument used for the SEC in football, except the SEC backs it up in the championship games. Everybody beats up on each other during the season and conference tournament that the Big East is gassed come the NCAA tournament. It might be a benefit to Syracuse losing early in the Big East tournament as they will likely be better rested than say WVU.

The only team who has done anything in the Big East in terms of national championships is playing in the Not Invited Tournament this year.

[WVRed]

If Wake wins, it is one of the biggest tourney shockers in a long time.

If Wake loses, it won't matter as the loss will eventually be expunged after the inevitable NCAA investigation of Calipari & Kentucky. ;)

Sounds like what i've been hearing in West Virginia. :)

[BuckeyeRed27]

Why did I pick a team coached by Bob Huggins to reach the finals?
WVU down 10-0 early to Morgan State.

[Reds Fanatic]

West Virginia has missed their first 9 shots of the game.

[Oxilon]

Big East = FAIL.

[BuckeyeRed27]

After 15 minutes WVU has the lead for the first time at 22-21
Xavier leads by 4 nine minutes in and Cornell is up by 8 on Temple

[TeamSelig]

and now WVU is up 11 at the half.

[Scrap Irony]

If Wake wins, it is one of the biggest tourney shockers in a long time.

If Wake loses, it won't matter as the loss will eventually be expunged after the inevitable NCAA investigation of Calipari & Kentucky. ;)

I disagree with the first part of your assertion, 15. Wake has serious talent. Enough talent in their starting five, IMO, to win against a very, very young Kentucky team. They have a veteran PG and three really big bigs that match up favorably defensively with what the Cats tend to do offensively.

If the Cats lose, it'd be much less of a shock, IMO, than Georgetown's epic collapse against Ohio this season or any number of weird happenings with Duke over the past decade.

[BuckeyeRed27]

and now WVU is up 11 at the half.

Up 18 now they are on a 48-20 run since the 11 minute mark of the 1st half...not bad

Looks like the game to watch here will be the Xavier/Minnesota game

[joshnky]

If the Cats lose, it'd be much less of a shock, IMO, than Georgetown's epic collapse against Ohio this season or any number of weird happenings with Duke over the past decade.

Really? Georgetown has been suspect all season long. Aside from the Big East tournament they've been very inconsistent and really struggled with Austin Freeman's issues of late. The way they played defensively was shocking but the fact they lost was hardly epic nor at the proportion of a UK second round loss.

[RichRed]

Not looking good for the Morgan State Fairchilds.

[BuckeyeRed27]

X has stretched it bo 9 with 5 minutes to go.
WVU is sitting on a 30 point lead.
Cornell is up 16 on Temple with about 6 to go.

Where is the MADNESS???? :p:

[reds1869]

Nice win for X. I'd love to see Oakland in the second round, but if not a rematch with Pitt will be most welcome.

[OnBaseMachine]

Purdue beat Siena 72-64.

#13 Wofford leads #4 Wisconsin 40-39 with 9:31 remaining.

[WMR]

Go Wofford. :D

[OnBaseMachine]

Wofford/Wisconsin tied at 49 with 1:17 left.

[OnBaseMachine]

Nice job by the Wofford player to give the game away by dribbling the ball out of bounds.

Wisconsin hangs on to win. Missouri knocked off Clemson and Pitt has a big lead on Oakland in the second half.

[WMR]

Jeez, what a pathetic ending by Wofford. That was sad. Dribble it off your own knee with under 5 secs left.

[Chip R]

Nice job by the Wofford player to give the game away by dribbling the ball out of bounds.

He could play for UC. ;)

[WMR]

Cornell can beat Wisconsin.

[Hoosier Red]

I agree they can, though I think it's probably unwise to read too much into any opening round game. If you win, that's all that matters.

That goes for Nova yesterday too.

[TeamSelig]

Jeez, what a pathetic ending by Wofford. That was sad. Dribble it off your own knee with under 5 secs left.

Did you see the guy? Didn't exactly look like the smartest guy in the world.

[OnBaseMachine]

Texas A&M leads Utah State 42-29 at the half.

[OnBaseMachine]

Texas A&M beat Utah State 69-53.

[GBC Red]

Big East = FAIL.

Really? So the showing yesterday wasn't amazing, but WVU winning by 27 and Pitt winning by 23 is a fail? I'm aware Marquette, Georgetown, and ND all went down yesterday, but as a Big East fan Georgetown is the only one that surprised me. Marquette has played just like they did all year and ND's slow burn offense automatically keeps opponents in games. If Louisville loses tonight I wouldn't be shocked either. Getting 8 teams in the tourney is not a fail.

[OnBaseMachine]

Some more close games...

Gonzaga's once double digit lead over Florida State has been cut to 55-50 with 3:54 remaining.

Georgia Tech leads Oklahoma State 54-52 with 3:54 left.

New Mexico State has made a comeback and now only trails Michigan State 46-44 with a little over 15 minutes remaining.

[OnBaseMachine]

Arkansas-Pine Bluff has Duke right where they want them - down 31 with 3 minutes remaining.

New Mexico St. is now winning.

[OnBaseMachine]

Gonzaga beats FSU, 67-60.

[OnBaseMachine]

Georgia Tech beat Oklahoma State 64-59. Ok St. had a chance to tie the game but one of there players decided to try to drive through three GT defenders and turned the ball over.

[Reds Fanatic]

New Mexico State hits a 3 and is down 1 with 18 seconds left.

[WMR]

New Mexico St. got sorta screwed there at the end. A lane violation? Really?

[OnBaseMachine]

It looks like the refs are tired of the upsets.

Michigan State and the refs knock off Nex Mexico State 70-67.

[Jack Burton]

New Mexico St. got sorta screwed there at the end. A lane violation? Really?

No doubt, what the heck was that call in that situation? Not joking here but the ref needs to lose his job and be looked into for a possible gambling angle. You just don't make that call, what's wrong with these morons, "let them play" like they said in that one movie.

[OnBaseMachine]

No doubt, what the heck was that call in that situation? Not joking here but the ref needs to lose his job and be looked into for a possible gambling angle. You just don't make that call, what's wrong with these morons, "let them play" like they said in that one movie.

Bill Simmons agrees:

Worst call of tournament - the lane violation in that MSU game. That's a call you make only if you are fixing the game

http://twitter.com/sportsguy33

[joshnky]

New Mexico St. got sorta screwed there at the end. A lane violation? Really?

True, but it was hard to feel bad for them after they had their little "injury" timeout. The guy fouls out, falls to the floor writhing in pain, and then 5 minutes later hops up and goes to the bench.

[OnBaseMachine]

Cal leads Louisville 12-0 early on.

[OnBaseMachine]

22-4 Cal. Louisville will go on a run but Cal is unbelievably hot right now.

[reds1869]

The Big East is taking it on the chin so far.

[OnBaseMachine]

Here comes Louisville. 12-0 run to cut it to 30-24.

[OnBaseMachine]

Cal hits a long three at the buzzer to carry a 41-30 lead into halftime.

Houston trails Maryland by two in the first half.

[OnBaseMachine]

Cal is up 53-39 with 14:30 remaining.

[OnBaseMachine]

10 point lead for Cal with four minutes remaining. Cal ball.

[Razor Shines]

Really? So the showing yesterday wasn't amazing, but WVU winning by 27 and Pitt winning by 23 is a fail? I'm aware Marquette, Georgetown, and ND all went down yesterday, but as a Big East fan Georgetown is the only one that surprised me. Marquette has played just like they did all year and ND's slow burn offense automatically keeps opponents in games. If Louisville loses tonight I wouldn't be shocked either. Getting 8 teams in the tourney is not a fail.

You forgot Villanova, they really should have lost that game. Reynolds was getting Jordan calls.

[OnBaseMachine]

Cal knocked off Louisville, 77-62. Ohio State and Syracuse both won comfortably and Maryland leads Houston by 12 with under six minutes remaining.

[GBC Red]

You forgot Villanova, they really should have lost that game. Reynolds was getting Jordan calls.

Should have, but didn't. They are looking rough today as well, however. That being said as of me typing this (I'm saying this because Nova could go down) the Big East still has 4 teams left. Only the Big 12 has more. I still don't define the lower seeded teams (with exception of Georgetown) losing a fail.

[Reds Fanatic]

Great game going on between St. Mary's and Villanova. St. Mary's up 3 with about 1:15 left.

[OnBaseMachine]

St. Mary's is up five with 30 seconds left and have the ball.

[reds1869]

And Nova goes bye-bye.

[Joseph]

Murray State is not Sweet. Very disappointing.

[reds1869]

Murray State is not Sweet. Very disappointing.

I was really pulling for them. Oh so close.

[Joseph]

Yeah its tough when you've got the ball in hand with a chance and you can't get it done.

[Playadlc]

These buffalo wild wings commercials during every single break are so stupid they honestly make me not want to eat there.

[Reds Fanatic]

Northern Iowa has an 8 point lead on Kansas at the half.

[Scrap Irony]

Kansas has not yet played like the best team in America. But they have time, crowd, talent, and perception on their side.

[WMR]

BOOM goes the dynamite.

Northern Iowa came to play!

[WMR]

You see what a razor-thin margin a team like Northern Iowa is up against versus a team like Kansas.