The Official Redszone NBA Playoff Thread, now with more accuracy! [Archive] - Page 2 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

improbus

05-23-2010, 12:49 PM

Cleveland and Orlando are front running teams. When the going gets tough, both of them fold and this is directly linked to the attitudes of LeBron and Howard. Neither hold their teammates accountable and neither has displayed the ability to inspire them, either through words or through play.
Boston is very different. Allen, Garnett, and Pierce have all taken turns being the big time clutch guys, and Rondo has trumped all three of them. To me, Cleveland and Orlando have similar talent levels/athleticism to the C's, but neither of them have the mental fortitude to compete with Boston.

Homer Bailey

05-23-2010, 04:34 PM

To me, Cleveland and Orlando have similar talent levels/athleticism to the C's, but neither of them have the mental fortitude to compete with Boston.

Cleveland has nowhere near the talent that the Celtics have. When the Cavs and C's take the floor, the Cavs have the best player, and the C's have the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th best players.

Kingspoint

05-23-2010, 05:01 PM

Cleveland has nowhere near the talent that the Celtics have. When the Cavs and C's take the floor, the Cavs have the best player, and the C's have the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th best players.

You'll lose every time under that scenario.

RBA

05-23-2010, 11:16 PM

The Lakers in Six!

Yes, the Lakers will win the next 6 games in a row. ;)

I still stand by my prediction. They will win the next 6 in a row. :thumbup:

Homer Bailey

05-23-2010, 11:35 PM

I still stand by my prediction. They will win the next 6 in a row. :thumbup:

Nope.

Going to have big problems if Artest gets 14 shots a game. If they're gettin smacked in the mouth in Phoenix they are going to have a tough time winning in Boston.....

I'm now 29-13 betting the playoffs. R-A-K-I-N-G.

gilpdawg

05-24-2010, 04:21 AM

Nope.

Going to have big problems if Artest gets 14 shots a game. If they're gettin smacked in the mouth in Phoenix they are going to have a tough time winning in Boston.....

I'm now 29-13 betting the playoffs. R-A-K-I-N-G.
As a Pacers fan, if Ron Artest gets a ring, I'm going to throw bleach in my eyes. Thanks, Ron, for starting one of the worst scenes in sports history, which started a downward spiral which could culminate with the Pacers leaving Indianapolis. Really, thanks. I could say a lot more about Ron Artest but I would be banned from this site.

That said, as someone rooting for Phoenix, I love it when Ron shoots a three. Keep shooting those Ron. Keep shooting those. Just like you bricked them when you played here, right? Why don't you run in the stands and punch Jack Nicholson?

I feel better now.

RBA

05-25-2010, 12:23 AM

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a36/tango2201/BIGBABYLIP1.gif

reds44

05-25-2010, 01:09 AM

RBA

05-25-2010, 01:20 AM

Smacked in the mouth? They lost one game.

And not on their home court. :eek:

reds44

05-25-2010, 03:34 AM

And not on their home court. :eek:
Boston REALLY got smacked around by the Magic tonight.

Homer Bailey

05-25-2010, 01:16 PM

Smacked in the mouth? They lost one game.

They got it taken to them. Suns shot like 40 free throws while the Lakers stood outside and jacked up jumpers. I think the Lakers roll tonight, but the Suns may have shown the blueprint for beating the Lakers: Make Artest hit wide open shots, because he's proven he can't do it.

Boston REALLY got smacked around by the Magic tonight.

An OT loss is really getting smacked around? Please. Rondo had an awful game, Howard had his best game of the playoffs, and it still took OT to beat them? C'mon.

reds44

05-25-2010, 04:28 PM

They got it taken to them. Suns shot like 40 free throws while the Lakers stood outside and jacked up jumpers. I think the Lakers roll tonight, but the Suns may have shown the blueprint for beating the Lakers: Make Artest hit wide open shots, because he's proven he can't do it.

An OT loss is really getting smacked around? Please. Rondo had an awful game, Howard had his best game of the playoffs, and it still took OT to beat them? C'mon.
The Lakers scored 109 points and shot 48% from the field. The Suns played zone, and the Lakers had troubles solving it. I bet you any money the Celtics won't play a possesion of zone against the Lakers. The Suns victory the other night was no blueprint on beating the Lakers.

The Lakers lost that game, not because of Ron Artest, but because Odom was 4-14 and Bynum only played 8 minutes.

And my getting smacked around post was sarcasm, but you say Howard had his best game of the playoffs, what do you call Amare's effort the other night?

Homer Bailey

05-25-2010, 05:29 PM

The Lakers scored 109 points and shot 48% from the field. The Suns played zone, and the Lakers had troubles solving it. I bet you any money the Celtics won't play a possesion of zone against the Lakers. The Suns victory the other night was no blueprint on beating the Lakers.

The Lakers lost that game, not because of Ron Artest, but because Odom was 4-14 and Bynum only played 8 minutes.

And my getting smacked around post was sarcasm, but you say Howard had his best game of the playoffs, what do you call Amare's effort the other night?

Maybe I overstated the blueprint comment. But Artest's bricklaying has been a huge weakness on the Lakers so far, but it is overshadowed because the Lakers have played no one that can match up with Gasol inside, and no one that can even attempt to defend Kobe.

Celtics probably won't play any zone, but they matchup way better than any team that the Lakers have played so far. I mean, if OKC has ANY functional big man, I think they win that series.

Clearly, Amare's game was his best of the playoffs, but Amare is strictly an offensive player. When Dwight Howard has a good offensive game, he is doing that in addition to his outstanding rebounding and shot blocking.

My "smacked in the mouth" comment was in reference to the way that Phoenix took it right at the Lakers, which is the type of effort I expect from Boston. The great thing about the NBA is that there are no style points or anything, and this whole "dispute" is kind of silly considering it will all be settled in a few weeks, and we don't have to play hypothetical games like we do in college.

Boston Red

05-25-2010, 06:07 PM

this whole "dispute" is kind of silly considering it will all be settled in a few weeks, and we don't have to play hypothetical games like we do in college.

It's especially silly when the two teams' current series are one game away from being very interesting.

Homer Bailey

05-25-2010, 06:45 PM

It's especially silly when the two teams' current series are one game away from being very interesting.

If you'd like to bet me that those two teams won't make the finals, I'm all ears.

Boston Red

05-25-2010, 06:53 PM

If you'd like to bet me that those two teams won't make the finals, I'm all ears.

Let's revisit this Thursday if both lose their next outing.

reds44

05-25-2010, 07:00 PM

Let's revisit this Thursday if both lose their next outing.
They both will still be, even if they lose.

Boston Red

05-25-2010, 07:03 PM

They both will still be, even if they lose.

Maybe, but that Game 6 in Boston would be awfully, awfully interesting.

And we already know that you never think the Lakers are ever in any danger of losing anything.

Homer Bailey

05-26-2010, 12:31 AM

Suns have more good players than the Lakers do, but they don't have Kobe, and they won't have the officials in LA. Lakers will still win this series.

Roy Tucker

05-26-2010, 08:35 AM

Lakers look suddenly vulnerable. I'm surprised.

Barkley made a good comment that the Suns' bench needs to figure out how to play well on the road.

WVRed

05-26-2010, 09:22 AM

Suns have more good players than the Lakers do, but they don't have Kobe, and they won't have the officials in LA. Lakers will still win this series.

Agreed, but I think this series has exposed a lot that Boston will likely take advantage of in the finals.

As was said earlier in this thread with Cleveland, the Lakers may end up having the best player, but the Celtics have better players at the other positions.

texasdave

05-26-2010, 11:23 PM

It looks as if they are heading back to Boston for a game six. Orlando still has a pulse.

Homer Bailey

05-26-2010, 11:27 PM

I'd bet on Orlando making the finals before I'd bet on the Suns. All of a sudden the C's look discombobulated (sp?). If they lose Perkins for Game 6 they are in some trouble.

texasdave

05-27-2010, 12:05 AM

Homer Bailey

05-27-2010, 02:46 AM

reds44

05-27-2010, 03:26 AM

Well the Lakers have put themself in a must win in game 5 and the Celtics have put themself in a must win in game 6.

Roy Tucker

05-27-2010, 08:16 AM

I thought both T's were unwarranted as well. One was an accident and one was a really quick on the trigger T. Perkins always looks nasty anyhow.

Howard has wicked elbows. Almost as bad as Bill Cartwright.

blumj

05-27-2010, 11:12 AM

Did anyone see the game? Were the technicals on Perkins warranted? If the league rescinds one and allows him to play in game six you just know that people are gonna complain that 'the fix' is in, that the NBA wants a Celtics-Lakers finals.

You know, people who want to believe something's fixed will always be able to find reasons. The NBA probably does make it a little too easy, though.

Former NBA referee Tim Donaghy continued his criticism of the league in an appearance on the Dennis & Callahan show Thursday morning and addressed the controversy from Wednesday night, when the Celtics were on the short end of some questionable calls, including the ejection of center Kendrick Perkins for two technical fouls.

Donaghy said the league clearly benefits from the series going longer, and the referees understand that. "It's a situation where the officials are well aware of what goes on and what's best for the league," said Donaghy, who left the league in disgrace after a gambling scandal and served a prison sentence. "Obviously, what's best for the league is putting Orlando in a little bit of an advantage. It seems to be that's certainly what's taking place."

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/2121995/donaghy-dc-refs-favoring-magic

Roy Tucker

05-27-2010, 11:31 AM

Donaghy is a bit like Jose Canseco and steroids.

Their careers have a huge blotch of a stain on them but I'm afraid they are telling an awful lot of the truth.

Boston Red

05-27-2010, 11:37 AM

blumj

05-27-2010, 01:01 PM

It's best for the NBA if the Lakers and Celtics meet in the Finals. Not sure how Donaghy could claim otherwise. You're putting the Celtics at serious risk of not winning the series by hurting their chances to win Game 6. A Game 7 would be great for the NBA....as long as the Celtics win it. It would be awfully tough in Orlando.
I don't know if you read the whole thing, but he also said this:
Donaghy said he does not think Rush will be suspended for giving Perkins a quick hook, and he thinks the refs will stop favoring Orlando. "Moving forward I would say no [more bias], and that's because anything can happen in a Game 7, and an LA-Boston finals would be much better than an LA-Orlando finals," he said.

Boston Red

05-27-2010, 02:05 PM

NJReds

05-27-2010, 04:01 PM

Anything that risks that LA/Boston final (which a suspended Perkins for Boston's last shot to close it out at home will obviously do) is a detriment to the NBA. So I think Donaghy is a bit out there on this one.

The league said Perkins can play game 6:

BOSTON (AP)—Boston’s Kendrick Perkins(notes) will be eligible to play in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals against the Orlando Magic.

The NBA said Thursday that one of the two technical fouls Perkins received in Game 5 was rescinded. That means Perkins hasn’t hit the mark of seven technicals in the playoffs that would lead to an automatic suspension.

Perkins was called for the first technical when he elbowed Marcin Gortat(notes) in the stomach. Replays showed Perkins’ arm merely slipped as he tried to help teammate Rajon Rondo(notes) up.

But it was the second technical that was rescinded by the league. Perkins got that one when he complained about a foul call in the second quarter.

texasdave

05-27-2010, 04:22 PM

Just watched that second technical on Kendrick Perkins and that could have ended up going either way. I have seen players T'd up for that sort of display and not T'd up for the same shenanigans. I think when any player already has six technicals in less than 16 games the referees might be looking at that player a little bit more closely. Right or wrong. I don't really think it matters much. Orlando, to me, had the better team coming in and I still think they will win the series. Now if Dwight Howard picks up two quick fouls in the first minute of Game Six all bets are off and it is Grassy Knoll Time.

Jack Burton

05-27-2010, 04:34 PM

Worst thing for the NBA is a Magic Suns final.

Chances of a Magic Suns final.... 0%

BRM

05-27-2010, 04:51 PM

Worst thing for the NBA is a Magic Suns final.

Chances of a Magic Suns final.... 0%

Which is funny because that's the matchup I'd prefer to see.

texasdave

05-27-2010, 05:17 PM

Which is funny because that's the matchup I'd prefer to see.

Same here if I could just pick one team from each conference. Stoudemire-Howard would be fun to watch.

BRM

05-27-2010, 05:26 PM

Same here if I could just pick one team from each conference. Stoudemire-Howard would be fun to watch.

Those two aren't necessarily my favorite teams but I much prefer them, and their style, to their current opponents.

Roy Tucker

05-27-2010, 05:30 PM

BRM

05-27-2010, 05:32 PM

I though there was nfw the Magic and the Suns would win. Now it seems there is a fw. Color me shocked.

Same here, although I am really hoping to see Phoenix knock off the Lakers. Don't care so much about the East. Doesn't matter all that much to me who wins that series.

Scrap Irony

05-27-2010, 07:32 PM

I thought Perkins got screwed over both calls. (Then again, I'm a Boston fan from way back, so my bias may be showing.) On the first, the official obviously misconstrued the "elbow" and the second was just an emotional guy reacting to the call. Howard does that virtually every whistle.

I also thought both Garnett and Pierce should have gotten T'd and Rondo's T was beyond ridiculous. He asked to talk to an official extremely calmly and another official ran over screaming to T him up.

Really, really poor officiating for the game.

WVRed

05-27-2010, 11:03 PM

I like to watch to watch Kobe and Gasol when they've got their mojo workig. Pretty basketball.

Celtics are typical Eastern Conference body slam hoops.

I though there was nfw the Magic and the Suns would win. Now it seems there is a fw. Color me shocked.

The Celtics win with defense, which is pretty scary given the quality of it in the NBA. The only other defensive caliber team I have seen in the league has been the San Antonio's of the past.

Homer Bailey

05-27-2010, 11:05 PM

The Celtics win with defense, which is pretty scary given the quality of it in the NBA. The only other defensive caliber team I have seen in the league has been the San Antonio's of the past.

Huge misconception about the current NBA is that there isn't any defense.

Boston Red

05-27-2010, 11:42 PM

Just how Phil Jackson drew it up.

texasdave

05-28-2010, 12:23 AM

Just how Phil Jackson drew it up.

Yes, but I doubt Richardson was trying to bank that game-tying three on the other end. Steve Nash could play on my team any day.

Homer Bailey

05-28-2010, 12:38 AM

RBA

05-28-2010, 01:02 AM

Steve Nash and the Suns climbed over the backs of the Lakers and nearly walked away with the win and now their traveling back to Phoenix. Maybe they will wear their Los Suns jersey to protest illegal screenings? The Suns have had more than their multiple 3 seconds of fame.

reds44

05-28-2010, 03:22 AM

Only one quote can describe the game tonight.

"One lucky shot deserves another."

reds44

05-28-2010, 03:25 AM

Kobe Bailout and his 25% game winning field goal percentage over the last 6 years gets the victory.

Kobe leads the playoffs with two game winning misses this year (game winners that he missed that one the game).

And he's the "most clutch player in the game." Unreal really.
He had 30, 11, and 9 tonight with only 2 turnovers. Don't you think you are nitpicking a little here? He really should have passed his last shot to Fisher, but it worked out for the best.

As for your last sentence:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/0910kobegamewinners.html

Roy Tucker

05-28-2010, 08:03 AM

Exciting but not particularly skillful end of the ballgame last night.

Richardson's shot reminded me of when I'd play HORSE with my sister and she'd heave one up from 35 feet and it would go in.

Artest's play was a good hustle play. When Kobe's shot went up, he was 10 ft. on the other side of the basket.

Craig Sager interviewed Artest after the game. All I can say is "what?!?!?".

Homer Bailey

05-28-2010, 10:14 AM

He had 30, 11, and 9 tonight with only 2 turnovers. Don't you think you are nitpicking a little here? He really should have passed his last shot to Fisher, but it worked out for the best.

As for your last sentence:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/0910kobegamewinners.html

Kobe played a great game, but he was 3 for 9 in the 4th, and missed yet another game winning shot. Really an absolutely terrible shot, and he got bailed out. The ironic part is the fact that it was the worst possible shot (airball) is what won the Lakers the game.

And yeah, he made 6 game winners this year, yet no one talks about how many misses he had this year, which were plenty. Heck he had at least 1 (and I wanna say 2) games where he missed the winning shot in regulation, then hit it in OT.

Fact is, he is horribly overrated as a clutch finisher (when in fact, he is the WORST), as is evidenced here:

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Kobe is an outstanding player, but I just can't stand how much credit he gets for winning 4 rings because he's been on great teams. Remember, I'm a huge LeBron apologist, and I'm so sick of the "4 ring" argument when comparing the two players, because it isn't valid based on the two teams the two players play on.

Jack Burton

05-28-2010, 11:39 AM

Hoosier Red

05-28-2010, 11:43 AM

Don't worry Jack, it's all part of the conspiracy.
The Refs had it all under control, they used their magnets to help Richardson bank in a three previously in order to set up the more dramatic finish.

Jack Burton

05-28-2010, 11:51 AM

RBA

05-28-2010, 04:08 PM

No justice in sports. The Suns deserved that game, Nash was spectacular down the stretch and was definitely the best player on the court.

Kobe throws up an airball and some idiot is wandering around the hoop and sallys it up as time expires..... no justice.

Nash better than Kobe? I don't think so. The Suns deserved nothing. If they deserved it, they would have won it.

Jack Burton

05-28-2010, 04:12 PM

Nash better than Kobe?
Yes

RBA

05-28-2010, 04:34 PM

Kobe throws up an airball and some idiot is wandering around the hoop and sallys it up as time expires..... no justice.

The Suns failed to box him out, Artest got where he needed to be and put it in. How is that being an "idiot" and not hustle? If the Suns got the rebound, they would earned them Overtime. They quit on the last play of the game. So that's why the Suns deserve to win?

Jack Burton

05-28-2010, 04:44 PM

The Suns failed to box him out, Artest got where he needed to be and put it in. How is that being an "idiot" and not hustle? If the Suns got the rebound, they would earned them Overtime. They quit on the last play of the game. So that's why the Suns deserve to win?

But at least you can admit that Artest is mentally challenged. No?

RBA

05-28-2010, 04:59 PM

But at least you can admit that Artest is mentally challenged. No?

He's paid millions of dollars to play a game. Looks like he is smart enough for the people who pay him. Not many men make it to the level where he is at.

reds44

05-28-2010, 05:03 PM

No justice in sports. The Suns deserved that game, Nash was spectacular down the stretch and was definitely the best player on the court.

Kobe throws up an airball and some idiot is wandering around the hoop and sallys it up as time expires..... no justice.
What are you talking about? Did you miss the fact that the Suns banked in a three to tie the game? Yeah, that was all skill.

The Lakers didn't trail at any point in the final 3 quarters. The right team won.

reds44

05-28-2010, 05:04 PM

The Suns failed to box him out, Artest got where he needed to be and put it in. How is that being an "idiot" and not hustle? If the Suns got the rebound, they would earned them Overtime. They quit on the last play of the game. So that's why the Suns deserve to win?
Yeah. Artest said he knew the shot was going to be short as soon as he shot it because he thought Kobe got fouled. What a dummy.

Boston Red

05-28-2010, 05:06 PM

But at least you can admit that Artest is mentally challenged. No?

Yes, Artest is certainly mentally challenged.

I can imagine it was a tough loss if you are a Suns fan.

Jack Burton

05-28-2010, 05:11 PM

Yes, Artest is certainly mentally challenged.

I can imagine it was a tough loss if you are a Suns fan.

Especially the way Nash played down the stretch, basically willing his team to victory. If only Frye could have knocked 1 or 2 of those down.....

Razor Shines

05-28-2010, 05:17 PM

The Suns failed to box him out, Artest got where he needed to be and put it in. How is that being an "idiot" and not hustle? If the Suns got the rebound, they would earned them Overtime. They quit on the last play of the game. So that's why the Suns deserve to win?

He may have been hustling but I don't think there's any question that Artest is an idiot. I say that as a Pacer fan who saw his idiocy first hand.

Homer Bailey

05-28-2010, 05:24 PM

Artest explained why he took the shot with a minute left while the entire Staples Center screamed "Nooooo!"

"There was a time when I used to hit that shot 40% of the time."

Ron, you are shooting threes at an unprecedented 24% clip in this post season. You are terrible.

reds44

05-28-2010, 06:51 PM

Especially the way Nash played down the stretch, basically willing his team to victory. If only Frye could have knocked 1 or 2 of those down.....
Dear God. The Suns had the lead for zero seconds in the last three quarters. Nobody "willed" their team to victory.

I love all the love Nash is getting too. He had 29/11/3. Kobe had 30/11/9, but yes Nash "willed" his team to victory.

reds44

05-28-2010, 07:00 PM

Here are their lines for the series:

Game 1
Kobe: 40/5/5
Nash: 13/13/4

Game 2
Kobe: 21/13/5
Nash: 11/15/3

Game 3
Kobe: 36/11/9
Nash: 17/15/2

Game 4
Kobe: 38/10/7
Nash: 15/8/4

Game 5
Kobe: 30/11/9
Nash: 29/11/3

WCF
Kobe:
33 PPG, 10 APG, 7 RPG
55% from the field, 3 TPG

Nash:
18 PPG, 12 APG, 3 RPG
49% from the field, 3 TPG

So if by "willed his team to victory" you mean "finally came anywhere near playing as well as Kobe" then yes, he willed his team to victory, and lost.

Tony Cloninger

05-28-2010, 09:17 PM

I want the Suns to win as well...but to not give Kobe credit for winning now and before....and using LeBron as a comparison? Comparison to what?

Scrap Irony

05-28-2010, 09:33 PM

I really like Nate Robinson. I also really like Rajon Rondo. They're really fun to watch.

Razor Shines

05-30-2010, 12:07 AM

Kobe Bryant is the Miguel Cairo of the NBA. He made some ridiculous jumpers down the stretch tonight.

reds44

05-30-2010, 12:18 AM

Yes
Nash still the best player on the court?

New Fever

05-30-2010, 12:45 AM

Kobe Bryant was just insane tonight, Grant Hill played good defense too. He is the Best player on the planet.

Homer Bailey

05-30-2010, 04:56 AM

Kobe Bryant was just insane tonight, Grant Hill played good defense too. He is the Best player on the planet.

He is a very very very very good player on an excellent team.

LeBron James is the best basketball player on the planet. He plays on an average team at best.

This is my opinion.

reds44

05-30-2010, 04:59 AM

He is a very very very very good player on an excellent team.

LeBron James is the best basketball player on the planet. He plays on an average team at best.

This is my opinion.

Watch the two shots Kobe drills in the last two minutes of the game. One of Hill and Frye, another one over Frye.

Those two shots are why he's the best player in the game. LeBron can't be put in that class until he finds something to wear on his finger.

Kobe if a great player on a good team, that he raises up because he is great.

Homer Bailey

05-30-2010, 05:08 AM

Watch the two shots Kobe drills in the last two minutes of the game. One of Hill and Frye, another one over Frye.

Awful shot selection. Just awful. They went in. He is amazing at making difficult shots. They don't have to be that difficult, and they don't always go in. They went in tonight. Two nights ago, he took an awful, awful, AWFUL shot, and Artest finished it for him. The fact that they went in tonight does not make him the best player in the game.

Those two shots are why he's the best player in the game. LeBron can't be put in that class until he finds something to wear on his finger.

Kobe played on similar teams post-Shaq-pre-Gasol as LeBron has for his entire career. How many rings did Kobe put on his finger during that time frame? How many rings did Kobe have at age 25 as the best player on his team?

Kobe if a great player on a good team, that he raises up because he is great.

I don't deny any of this. But you put LBJ on that team, they probably win an equal amount of titles. Kobe should not get all of the incredible praise that he gets simply because he plays on a much much much better team than LBJ does. Does anyone, ANYONE on the planet think that Kobe would have won one single ring on the Cavs over the last 7 years? I seriously doubt he would have even made a finals.

If you think Kobe is better than LBJ, that is fine. That is your opinion. Just don't tell me that he is better because of the rings. It's comparing apples to oranges.

reds44

05-30-2010, 05:21 AM

Homer Bailey

05-30-2010, 05:32 AM

There is no way you can compare this Cavs teams to that Lakers team. Those Lakers team only had two real NBA players, Kobe and Odom. The Cavs have LeBron, Mo Williams, Delonte West, Jamison, Anthony Parker, and Moon. Leon Powe couldn't even get on the floor for them and he played big minutes for the Celtics when they won it all.

The teams Kobe was playing with consisted of Smush Parker, Kwamie Brown, Chuck Atkins, Chris Mihm, etc. Those teams were epic levels of awful.

Yet LBJ took a team of Daniel Gibson, Drew Gooden, Eric Snow, and Anderson Varajao to the NBA finals. So yes, the teams are very comparable.

Mo Williams? Really? Guy is an SG in a PG's body, so he has to play PG, yet can't distribute, and shoots terribly in every playoff. He's an AWFUL defender, and he isn't even old. He's not good. Might honestly be the worst "All-Star" of all time.

Delonte West? There is a reason he doesn't start. Guy is a good one-on-one scorer. Can't guard anyone. Anthony Johnson was posting him up in the ECF last year, and he couldn't stop him. He's a poor man's Jorge Cantu.

Jamison took a #2 all over the NBA playoffs this year. Shot 18% from 3. Want to know the most amazing fact about Jamison?

He is the best player Lebron James has ever played with.

Re-read that. The best player LBJ has ever played with is Antawn Jamison. An undersized 4 that can't defend the low post, is about a 38% shooter from 17 feet plus, and is notorious for not being a clutch player.

Do I really have to go into detail about Anthony Parker or Jamario Moon? Would they see a single minute with this Lakers team? I'm not sure they would.

Please don't try to tell me Leon Powe is good. Please, just don't.

The teams are very comparable whether you like the comparison or not. I'm just saying, I think LBJ could have EASILY won 4 rings if he played for the Lakers over the last 13 or so years, and maybe more. I seriously doubt that LBJ would have ran a top 15 player (of all time) out of town (at minimum 2 more rings if Kobe never forces them to trade Shaq), demanded a trade, demanded the team trade for better players, etc.

Again, you can think that Kobe is a better player, and I can accept that. But he is NOT a better player than LBJ simply because he has four rings, because the conditions for the two players are not the same. They just aren't.

RBA

05-30-2010, 04:41 PM

reds44, repeat after me...

"I recognize Lebron James as the best basketball player in the history of basketball."

reds44

05-30-2010, 04:49 PM

Yet LBJ took a team of Daniel Gibson, Drew Gooden, Eric Snow, and Anderson Varajao to the NBA finals. So yes, the teams are very comparable.

Mo Williams? Really? Guy is an SG in a PG's body, so he has to play PG, yet can't distribute, and shoots terribly in every playoff. He's an AWFUL defender, and he isn't even old. He's not good. Might honestly be the worst "All-Star" of all time.

Delonte West? There is a reason he doesn't start. Guy is a good one-on-one scorer. Can't guard anyone. Anthony Johnson was posting him up in the ECF last year, and he couldn't stop him. He's a poor man's Jorge Cantu.

Jamison took a #2 all over the NBA playoffs this year. Shot 18% from 3. Want to know the most amazing fact about Jamison?

He is the best player Lebron James has ever played with.

Re-read that. The best player LBJ has ever played with is Antawn Jamison. An undersized 4 that can't defend the low post, is about a 38% shooter from 17 feet plus, and is notorious for not being a clutch player.

Do I really have to go into detail about Anthony Parker or Jamario Moon? Would they see a single minute with this Lakers team? I'm not sure they would.

Please don't try to tell me Leon Powe is good. Please, just don't.

The teams are very comparable whether you like the comparison or not. I'm just saying, I think LBJ could have EASILY won 4 rings if he played for the Lakers over the last 13 or so years, and maybe more. I seriously doubt that LBJ would have ran a top 15 player (of all time) out of town (at minimum 2 more rings if Kobe never forces them to trade Shaq), demanded a trade, demanded the team trade for better players, etc.

Again, you can think that Kobe is a better player, and I can accept that. But he is NOT a better player than LBJ simply because he has four rings, because the conditions for the two players are not the same. They just aren't.
The goal is to win championships. In basketball, you're not the best player in your sport until you win a championship.

LeBron does not win a ring with the Lakers team Kobe has now. I promise you.

RBA

05-30-2010, 05:30 PM

Homer Bailey

05-30-2010, 09:01 PM

The goal is to win championships. In basketball, you're not the best player in your sport until you win a championship.

LeBron does not win a ring with the Lakers team Kobe has now. I promise you.

I promise that I'm going to marry Megan Fox.

Both promises we just made mean the exact same thing. Nothing.

LBJ WALKS to the championship with this team around him. I promise.

Kobe has a better mid-range game. Lebron is a better athlete, passer, rebounder, drive-to-the-hoop scorer, shot blocker, stealer, and teammate.

LBJ actually MAKES HIS TEAMMATES BETTER as opposed to showing them up and yelling at them. LBJ can actually pass the ball.

Let's go ahead and get this one straight... was LT not the best player in his sport over the last few years? Was A-Rod not one of the best few players (pre-2009, his first ring)?

Team accomplishments, and individual effectiveness are two separate things. You may think Kobe is better than LBJ. That's fine. Just don't tell me he's better because he's been on teams that have won championships. It's just not that relevant.

Homer Bailey

05-30-2010, 09:03 PM

I'm confused how someone earns MVP for taking their team to 8th place. But of course, I recognize Lebron James as the best basketball player in the history of basketball and Steve Nash a close second.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8996/crazykg2.gif

I'm really sorry that you don't understand how the MVP works. It goes to the most valuable player in the regular season. If you want to try to argue that LBJ wasn't that player, PLEASE present your case. Honestly, I would pop some popcorn, pour me a nice scotch, and call it a night just to read your analysis as to how LBJ wasn't the most valuable player this year.

Or do you want to just keep being like everyone else, and only referring to team stats?

RBA

05-30-2010, 09:25 PM

I'm really sorry that you don't understand how the MVP works. It goes to the most valuable player in the regular season. If you want to try to argue that LBJ wasn't that player, PLEASE present your case. Honestly, I would pop some popcorn, pour me a nice scotch, and call it a night just to read your analysis as to how LBJ wasn't the most valuable player this year.

Or do you want to just keep being like everyone else, and only referring to team stats?

You sound confused, I recognize Lebron James as the best basketball player in the history of basketball. Maybe it's the scotch talking.

reds44

05-30-2010, 10:24 PM

I promise that I'm going to marry Megan Fox.

Both promises we just made mean the exact same thing. Nothing.

LBJ WALKS to the championship with this team around him. I promise.

Kobe has a better mid-range game. Lebron is a better athlete, passer, rebounder, drive-to-the-hoop scorer, shot blocker, stealer, and teammate.

LBJ actually MAKES HIS TEAMMATES BETTER as opposed to showing them up and yelling at them. LBJ can actually pass the ball.

Let's go ahead and get this one straight... was LT not the best player in his sport over the last few years? Was A-Rod not one of the best few players (pre-2009, his first ring)?

Team accomplishments, and individual effectiveness are two separate things. You may think Kobe is better than LBJ. That's fine. Just don't tell me he's better because he's been on teams that have won championships. It's just not that relevant.
Ah, the LeBron makes his teammates better argument. Real talk, give me one example of somebody going to play with LeBron and becoming better at basketball. Please.

As for Kobe, I can show you Odom, Gasol, Ariza, and even (to a lesser extent) Shannon Brown.

Odom was an epic enigma when he joined Kobe.
Gasol was soft and never been out of the first round.
Ariza was a former bust.
Shannon Brown was barely in the league.

How many times had Ron Artest been to the finals before joining Kobe? Answer would be none.

Both Mo Williams and Jamison got WORSE while playing with LeBron. I'll even give LeBron a pass on Shaq going from 18/8 in Phoenix to 12/7 in Cleveland just because of how old Shaq is, but just because he averages more assists does not make him a better team player. The THREE players the Cavs brought in for LeBron all became worse in Cleveland than they were in their previous stops. But yes, he makes his teammates better.

Somehow, Kobe and his teammates have won 4 rings and 7 conference titles with him "yelling" at them and "not passing" them the ball.

LeBron's not a better defender than Kobe either, and it's really not even close if you ask me.

And don't cross compare sports right now. Basketball is a much more individually dominated sport than football and baseball.

In basketball, you can't be the best player in your sport until you've won a ring. That's just the way it is.

And it goes both ways. You can't start talking Kobe vs. Jordan until Kobe gets 6. Hopefully he gets five in the next couple weeks.

Oh, and I couldn't care less about the MVP award. The fact that Steve Nash has 2 and Kobe has 1 is all you need to know about that award.

reds44

05-30-2010, 10:56 PM

For their careers, Jamison and Gasol are similar players.

Jamison: 20 PPG/8 RPG
Gasol: 19 PPG/ 9 RPG

I'd give the edge to Gasol, however.

What about Derek Fisher and Mo Williams?
Fisher: 9 PPG/3 APG
Williams: 14 PPG/5 APG

I'd give the edge to Mo Williams.

And you know what you could call Derek Fisher? "A shooting guard in a point guards body."

The Lakers add Gasol and Fisher, and all of a sudden, three straight trips to the finals (with one championship and maybe one more coming).
Cavs add Williams and Jamison, and somehow no improvement?

Yeah, but LeBron makes his teammates SO much better.

Razor Shines

05-31-2010, 01:20 AM

Ah, the LeBron makes his teammates better argument. Real talk, give me one example of somebody going to play with LeBron and becoming better at basketball. Please.

As for Kobe, I can show you Odom, Gasol, Ariza, and even (to a lesser extent) Shannon Brown.

Odom was an epic enigma when he joined Kobe.
Gasol was soft and never been out of the first round.
Ariza was a former bust.
Shannon Brown was barely in the league.

How many times had Ron Artest been to the finals before joining Kobe? Answer would be none.

Both Mo Williams and Jamison got WORSE while playing with LeBron. I'll even give LeBron a pass on Shaq going from 18/8 in Phoenix to 12/7 in Cleveland just because of how old Shaq is, but just because he averages more assists does not make him a better team player. The THREE players the Cavs brought in for LeBron all became worse in Cleveland than they were in their previous stops. But yes, he makes his teammates better.

Somehow, Kobe and his teammates have won 4 rings and 7 conference titles with him "yelling" at them and "not passing" them the ball.

LeBron's not a better defender than Kobe either, and it's really not even close if you ask me.

And don't cross compare sports right now. Basketball is a much more individually dominated sport than football and baseball.

In basketball, you can't be the best player in your sport until you've won a ring. That's just the way it is.

And it goes both ways. You can't start talking Kobe vs. Jordan until Kobe gets 6. Hopefully he gets five in the next couple weeks.

Oh, and I couldn't care less about the MVP award. The fact that Steve Nash has 2 and Kobe has 1 is all you need to know about that award.

I agree with most of this, I don't think rings matter as much though. If Kobe didn't have any rings he'd still be the best player IMO.

Plus there's a reason why when I go down to the inner city YMCA to play ball the 'ballers' call out "Kobe" when they shoot. :D

RedLakerFan24

05-31-2010, 02:12 AM

RedLakerFan24

05-31-2010, 02:16 AM

Yet LBJ took a team of Daniel Gibson, Drew Gooden, Eric Snow, and Anderson Varajao to the NBA finals. So yes, the teams are very comparable.

Mo Williams? Really? Guy is an SG in a PG's body, so he has to play PG, yet can't distribute, and shoots terribly in every playoff. He's an AWFUL defender, and he isn't even old. He's not good. Might honestly be the worst "All-Star" of all time.

Delonte West? There is a reason he doesn't start. Guy is a good one-on-one scorer. Can't guard anyone. Anthony Johnson was posting him up in the ECF last year, and he couldn't stop him. He's a poor man's Jorge Cantu.

Jamison took a #2 all over the NBA playoffs this year. Shot 18% from 3. Want to know the most amazing fact about Jamison?

He is the best player Lebron James has ever played with.

Re-read that. The best player LBJ has ever played with is Antawn Jamison. An undersized 4 that can't defend the low post, is about a 38% shooter from 17 feet plus, and is notorious for not being a clutch player.

Do I really have to go into detail about Anthony Parker or Jamario Moon? Would they see a single minute with this Lakers team? I'm not sure they would.

Please don't try to tell me Leon Powe is good. Please, just don't.

The teams are very comparable whether you like the comparison or not. I'm just saying, I think LBJ could have EASILY won 4 rings if he played for the Lakers over the last 13 or so years, and maybe more. I seriously doubt that LBJ would have ran a top 15 player (of all time) out of town (at minimum 2 more rings if Kobe never forces them to trade Shaq), demanded a trade, demanded the team trade for better players, etc.

Again, you can think that Kobe is a better player, and I can accept that. But he is NOT a better player than LBJ simply because he has four rings, because the conditions for the two players are not the same. They just aren't.\

So, now you're blaaming Jamison and not Lebron?? Lebron makes his teamates better, Look at Jamison with the Wizards, he was a monster in the playoffs, but with Leebron he got worsee, sorry for the spelling mistakess, my computer has a virus and wont let me type

reds44

05-31-2010, 02:28 AM

\

So, now you're blaaming Jamison and not Lebron?? Lebron makes his teamates better, Look at Jamison with the Wizards, he was a monster in the playoffs, but with Leebron he got worsee, sorry for the spelling mistakess, my computer has a virus and wont let me type
Too much pron!

RedLakerFan24

05-31-2010, 02:32 AM

Too much pron!

LOL it was frrom downloading too much musicc from piratebay

reds44

05-31-2010, 05:55 AM

Hey Paul, do us all a favor and leave the wheelchair at home for game 1.

Jack Burton

05-31-2010, 06:06 AM

Lakers vs. Celtics in the finals? What a shocker.

WVRed

05-31-2010, 09:42 AM

Lakers vs. Celtics in the finals? What a shocker.

http://cdn.adamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/celtics_beatla_white.jpg

improbus

05-31-2010, 10:09 AM

reds44

05-31-2010, 02:58 PM

LeBron went to the Finals in 2006 when the East was extremely weak. The Pistons were on their last legs, and only two teams won 50 games. That Finals run was pretty fluky. I don't think we can read too much into that season.
As for some of the comparisons, I have a few takes.
1) The Cavs would trade Jamison for Gasol so quickly that it wouldn't even be funny. In fact, they would probably have to throw in another player to make it happen. Gasol is a top 3 post player in the league and Jamison is a tweener who is a disaster defensively.
2) Williams vs. Fisher is probably closer than you think. Williams is closer to a 2 guard than a PG and is a streaky shooter. Williams is simply asked to do more in Cleveland's offense than Fisher is in LA's offense. But, Fish pulls off 1-2 plays per game that turn a game towards the Lakers (a big 3, taking a charge, etc...).
And Fisher is closer to a 2 guard than a PG too. Kobe and Odom get the Lakers into their offense, not Fisher.

And yes, Gasol is one of the best post players in the league now. He was simply nothing more than a "good player" when he came to the Lakers. Kobe has taken his game to another level, thus "making his teammate better."

And Lamar Odom was a tweener who was a disaster on defense and didn't try all the time when he came to the Lakers. And Kobe made him better.

Homer Bailey

05-31-2010, 03:11 PM

I should have never hi-jacked this thread into Kobe vs. Lebron, and I apologize. I'm not willing to discuss it any further. You can take this as me waving the white flag, but it's silly to debate, because everyone has already made up their mind, and it's not going to change.

Let's continue to discuss the NBA playoffs.

reds44

05-31-2010, 03:21 PM

Scrap Irony

05-31-2010, 03:33 PM

Shaq < Bynum
Jamison < Gasol
James > Artest
Parker < Bryant
Williams > Fisher

6th Man
West < Odom

Bench
Cavs = Lakers

As to teams, the Lakers are far better. I can't believe anyone would question that. Too, the Lakers have been better for years. I also cannot believe anyone would argue that.

But Bryant and James are pretty much identical, IMO. Both are phenomenal players who take a ton of shots, makes a ridiculous amount of bad shots, and play realy well on both sides of the ball.

Homer Bailey

05-31-2010, 03:53 PM

improbus

05-31-2010, 06:26 PM

And yes, Gasol is one of the best post players in the league now. He was simply nothing more than a "good player" when he came to the Lakers. Kobe has taken his game to another level, thus "making his teammate better."

Also, having some guy named "Phil Jackson" has probably helped Lamar, etc...
Put it this way, Lamar did some amazing things on the Heat, Gasol got the Grizzlies, and Artest would have gone to the Finals if not for the brawl. They were all very good to great players before they entered Kobe's orbit.

Scrap Irony

05-31-2010, 11:12 PM

Lakers v. Celtics:

Perkins > Bynum
Garnett < Gasol
Pierce > Artest
Allen < Bryant
Rondo > Fisher

6th Man
Davis < Odom

Bench
Celtics > Lakers

Really, really even. The C's are old and dinged up, though, and the Lakers are fairly fresh.

Celtics
The Optimist Says: Rondo should do major damage, as he's been among the best and most important players throughout the playoffs. Fisher can't stay in front of him and the Lakers aren't a big shot-clocking, physically imposing team, so he should be able to get into the lane. Allen always seems to play up to Bryant's level and may be the only player that's ever gotten into Kobe's head. Perkins gets a fresh start, too, and should be ready to go from the get-go. (He matches up well with Bynum or Gasol, too.)

The Pessimist Says:
Kobe may score 50 a night. Allen can't guard Bryant. At all. Neither can Pierce. Maybe Rondo can keep in front of him, but he's too short and small in stature. Garnett may be able to stick with Gasol and keep him below 25. Last time, The C's were able to outmuscle LA, but, this year, Boston is older, less athletic, and brittle across the front line (Garnett, Davis, Wallace, and Perkins are all banged up) and small in the backcourt.

LA
The Optimist Says:
Kobe's still Kobe. Gasol may be the second best player on the court. And Odom's in the picture for the fifth. In other words, the talent is definitely on the Laker's side. Rondo is a lesser Nash and the Lakers played well against him. In fact, Boston may be the third most talented team the Lakers have faced this playoffs.

The Pessimist Says:
Boston's style frustrates LA and has for years. Stranger things have happened than to see the Old Three find the fountain of youth for seven games. It happened with Boston for years. If Boston can shoot from 3 as well as they did against Orlando, they may give LA fits, too, as the Lakers aren't great in a jump shooting contest. IF it gets into a battle of the benches, LA is in trouble. Boston's bench is top notch, with Nate the Great, Wallace, Big Baby, etc.

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 12:12 AM

Buck Foston

Roy Tucker

06-01-2010, 08:48 AM

I see it at pretty close to a toss-up, but I like the Lakers in 7 since they have home court advantage. Its going to be a great series.

I read over the weekend that Rasheed Wallace is the only player to be kicked out of the McDonald's All-American Game. How fitting.

Boston Red

06-01-2010, 09:02 AM

And yes, Gasol is one of the best post players in the league now. He was simply nothing more than a "good player" when he came to the Lakers. Kobe has taken his game to another level, thus "making his teammate better."

You maybe need to check the stats again. Gasol was a bona fide star in Memphis. It's just that he played for Memphis. Who noticed?

The year before he came to L.A., Gasol averaged 20.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg and 2.1 bpg. while shooting 53.8% (throw in 3.4 apg). That is a helluva lot more than a "good player".

Jack Burton

06-01-2010, 12:12 PM

That Gasol trade needs to be looked into by authorities, charges need to be filed against Jerry West. Serious.

Roy Tucker

06-01-2010, 12:28 PM

I think Chris Wallace was the Memphis GM that made the Gasol trade.

Homer Bailey

06-01-2010, 01:03 PM

I think Chris Wallace was the Memphis GM that made the Gasol trade.

He was. Hopefully the Lakers gave him a ring for last years title as well.

reds44

06-01-2010, 03:30 PM

I love how in this thread Gasol has been called one of the best bigs in the game in a Kobe/LeBron argument and then called "overrated" in a Lakers/Celtics discussion.

Makes sense.

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 03:41 PM

He was. Hopefully the Lakers gave him a ring for last years title as well.

LOL You think it was a bad trade??? Come on, The Memphis got Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph(with Kwame Brown Salary Dump), Javaris. What did the Cavs give up for Jamison????

Homer Bailey

06-01-2010, 04:06 PM

LOL You think it was a bad trade??? Come on, The Memphis got Marc Gasol, Zach Randolph(with Kwame Brown Salary Dump), Javaris. What did the Cavs give up for Jamison????

To act like that trade wasn't .30 on the dollar is laughable. Let's be serious.

And the Jamison trade was a pure salary dump (which will be hamstringing the Cavs for years).You could argue that the Gasol trade was as well, but honestly who trades away Pau Gasol to "save money", then go and blow even more money on Zach Randolph? The trade miraculously worked out somewhat decent for Memphis, but to act like that was a fair trade is a little insane.

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 04:14 PM

To act like that trade wasn't .30 on the dollar is laughable. Let's be serious.

And the Jamison trade was a pure salary dump (which will be hamstringing the Cavs for years).You could argue that the Gasol trade was as well, but honestly who trades away Pau Gasol to "save money", then go and blow even more money on Zach Randolph? The trade miraculously worked out somewhat decent for Memphis, but to act like that was a fair trade is a little insane.

Yeah, but Memphis got the player that they wanted in Marc Gasol, they made the league know that Pau Gasol was available, they wanted salary cap and a great young big. They asked Chicago first about Tyrus Thomas but Chicago wasn't willing to put on more Salary, so the next thing they got was Marc Gasol. If you were the GM for Memphis who would you rather have, Pau Gasol or Marc Gasol + Zach Randolph???

reds44

06-01-2010, 04:17 PM

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 04:22 PM

Pau Gasol. Don't try to defend that trade from Memphis' part, it was one of the worst trades in NBA history.

Getting Marc Gasol( One of the Best Centers in the League) + Zach Randolph + Javaris + 2 1st Round Picks is not a bad deal for a Player who wanted out of Memphis

Homer Bailey

06-01-2010, 04:23 PM

Yeah, but Memphis got the player that they wanted in Marc Gasol, they made the league know that Pau Gasol was available, they wanted salary cap and a great young big. They asked Chicago first about Tyrus Thomas but Chicago wasn't willing to put on more Salary, so the next thing they got was Marc Gasol. If you were the GM for Memphis who would you rather have, Pau Gasol or Marc Gasol + Zach Randolph???

Every Laker fan tries to act like the Lakers got Zach Randolph in that trade. They didn't. The Lakers gave them poor mans Pau Gasol, and they got one of the best big men in the game.

The trade itself was robbery. Let's say that Dwayne Wade signs with the Wizards with the cap room they have (not likely, or really even possible), but would you say the Wizards got Dwayne Wade in the Cavs trade? No. They are mutually exclusive.

reds44

06-01-2010, 04:25 PM

Getting Marc Gasol( One of the Best Centers in the League) + Zach Randolph + Javaris + 2 1st Round Picks is not a bad deal for a Player who wanted out of Memphis
They didn't get Zach Randolph in that trade.

The Lakers got Pau Gasol for a lesser version of himself, aka his brother and a bunch of garbage. It was a horrible trade for the Grizzles.

reds44

06-01-2010, 04:26 PM

Every Laker fan tries to act like the Lakers got Zach Randolph in that trade. They didn't. The Lakers gave them poor mans Pau Gasol, and they got one of the best big men in the game.

The trade itself was robbery. Let's say that Dwayne Wade signs with the Wizards with the cap room they have (not likely, or really even possible), but would you say the Wizards got Dwayne Wade in the Cavs trade? No. They are mutually exclusive.
Who? This is the first time I've ever seen somebody try to act like the Lakers didn't rob the Griz blind lol

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 04:27 PM

Every Laker fan tries to act like the Lakers got Zach Randolph in that trade. They didn't. The Lakers gave them poor mans Pau Gasol, and they got one of the best big men in the game.

The trade itself was robbery. Let's say that Dwayne Wade signs with the Wizards with the cap room they have (not likely, or really even possible), but would you say the Wizards got Dwayne Wade in the Cavs trade? No. They are mutually exclusive.

i know the Lakers didn't give them Zach, but by trading Kwame Brown to them it made them get Zach Randolph for Nothing, they didn't sign him, it came to them in a trade which they gave away nothing, they traded Quentin Richardson for Zach

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 04:32 PM

Who? This is the first time I've ever seen somebody try to act like the Lakers didn't rob the Griz blind lol

Memphis almost got to the Playoffs this year, the trade made them alot better

Homer Bailey

06-01-2010, 04:43 PM

Who? This is the first time I've ever seen somebody try to act like the Lakers didn't rob the Griz blind lol

Not necessarily on this board. The laker fans I know use this rationale all the time. All the time.

reds44

06-01-2010, 04:51 PM

Memphis almost got to the Playoffs this year, the trade made them alot better
Just stop it. No it didn't. There's reasons Memphis got better, that trade wasn't one of them.

reds44

06-01-2010, 04:52 PM

Not necessarily on this board. The laker fans I know use this rationale all the time. All the time.
Well I'm sure those are the "meathead bandwagoners" that I hate lol

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 04:53 PM

Just stop it. No it didn't. There's reasons Memphis got better, that trade wasn't one of them.

So Marc Gasol Putting up 15 and 10 with great defense had nothing to do with it?? them getting salary cap to get Zach Randolph had nothing to do with it?

Chip R

06-01-2010, 04:53 PM

All right, this thread has officially got off the rails. If you want to discuss the merits of the Gasol trade, start a different one. Let's talk about the NBA Finals here.

reds44

06-01-2010, 04:56 PM

So Marc Gasol Putting up 15 and 10 with great defense had nothing to do with it?? them getting salary cap to get Zach Randolph had nothing to do with it?
Okay you're the GM of the Lakers right now.

Do you trade Pau for Marc and Randolph?

The correct answer is, no chance.

EDIT: just saw Chip's post, im done now lol

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 04:59 PM

Okay you're the GM of the Lakers right now.

Do you trade Pau for Marc and Randolph?

The correct answer is, no chance.

EDIT: just saw Chip's post, im done now lol

No, Gasol is perfect in the Triangle, it depends on what teams ask, if you ask Memphis if they would trade Marc + Zach for Pau they would say no

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 05:01 PM

Okay you're the GM of the Lakers right now.

Do you trade Pau for Marc and Randolph?

The correct answer is, no chance.

EDIT: just saw Chip's post, im done now lol

im not saying those players are better then Pau, im just saying the trade wasnt as bad as you're making it to be

texasdave

06-01-2010, 05:17 PM

Lakers in six. And I take Kobe over Lebron eight days a week.

reds44

06-01-2010, 05:19 PM

Lakers in six. And I take Kobe over Lebron eight days a week.
I agree with Lakers in 6, and on your last sentence.

Lakers have yet to lose at home in the playoffs, and I don't see that changing. Then we'll get one in Boston.

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 05:21 PM

This Laker team is different from 08, we added Artest and Bynum, No more Walton or Rad guarding Pierce

Homer Bailey

06-01-2010, 05:29 PM

This Laker team is different from 08, we added Artest and Bynum, No more Walton or Rad guarding Pierce

This Laker team is also different from 09.

Ariza>>>>>>>Artest

Bynum can't be counted on for much at this point.

I picked the Celtics awhile back because I got them at +400, and I still think they have a great shot. Home court is certainly in the Lakers favor, but if the C's get one of the first 2, I think they have a great shot, and I think they get one of the first two.

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 05:32 PM

This Laker team is also different from 09.

Ariza>>>>>>>Artest

Bynum can't be counted on for much at this point.

I picked the Celtics awhile back because I got them at +400, and I still think they have a great shot. Home court is certainly in the Lakers favor, but if the C's get one of the first 2, I think they have a great shot, and I think they get one of the first two.

Ariza cant guard Pierce, the Reason the Lakers picked Artest over Ariza is because Artest is able to guard SF that are bigger, like Pierce, and Lebron. And Bynum cant be counted??? Come On, with Bynum on Perkins instead of Gasol it makes it alot easier on Gasol. The reason they lost in 08 is because Gasol and Odom were being punked and pushed around. With Bynum it allows Odom to go to the Bench to give them Much REST

Boston Red

06-01-2010, 05:35 PM

I have expected the Celtics to get run out of the gym in each of the last two series. And I would normally expect the Lakers to run them, too. But this team seems to have aged backwards in the playoffs, and Rondo has been unreal.

Homer Bailey

06-01-2010, 05:49 PM

Ariza cant guard Pierce, the Reason the Lakers picked Artest over Ariza is because Artest is able to guard SF that are bigger, like Pierce, and Lebron. And Bynum cant be counted??? Come On, with Bynum on Perkins instead of Gasol it makes it alot easier on Gasol. The reason they lost in 08 is because Gasol and Odom were being punked and pushed around. With Bynum it allows Odom to go to the Bench to give them Much REST

Fisher is going to have to guard one of Rondo, Pierce, or Allen. That's a problem. I'm guessing the matchups will be as follows:

Artest on Pierce
Kobe on Rondo
Fisher on Allen

Allen may be the Finals MVP if Fisher guards him all series.

Bynum has averaged 7.5 a game over the last two series. Like I said, he can't be counted on. I think they're better off with Odom seeing 30 minutes than they are with Bynum.

I personally don't think Artest is even close to the defender he used to be, and find it hard to believe the Lakers "picked" Artest over Ariza. Did they not offer to Ariza? I honestly don't remember/care. '09 Ariza is a better defender than '10 Artest, and I won't even comment on their shooting.

And let's not act like it takes a lot to defend Kendrick Perkins.

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 05:54 PM

Fisher is going to have to guard one of Rondo, Pierce, or Allen. That's a problem. I'm guessing the matchups will be as follows:

Artest on Pierce
Kobe on Rondo
Fisher on Allen

Allen may be the Finals MVP if Fisher guards him all series.

Bynum has averaged 7.5 a game over the last two series. Like I said, he can't be counted on. I think they're better off with Odom seeing 30 minutes than they are with Bynum.

I personally don't think Artest is even close to the defender he used to be, and find it hard to believe the Lakers "picked" Artest over Ariza. Did they not offer to Ariza? I honestly don't remember/care. '09 Ariza is a better defender than '10 Artest, and I won't even comment on their shooting.

And let's not act like it takes a lot to defend Kendrick Perkins.

Its not like Perkins scores 20 ppg, they need Bynum for Defense. Fisher always guards Allen, he's very good at fighting the screens. And bynum is going to play like 20 minutes, and Odom is still going to get 30 minutes, like in the regular season, so i don't see your point. Gasol can't play Center the whole game. If you start Odom theat makes the bench very weak. Didn"t you see what Artest did to Durant?? Ariza wouldnt have played that defense on Durant, Melo always kills Ariza because of his size, Ariza struggels with bigger players, and they didn't offer Ariza anything, they made their offer to Artest. And its not guarding Perkins thats the problem, its the rebounding, GASOL gets pushed around by Perkins because of his size, Garnett pushes around Odom because of his size, so having Bynum helps the Lakers wih the rebounding

reds44

06-01-2010, 06:04 PM

Fisher is going to have to guard one of Rondo, Pierce, or Allen. That's a problem. I'm guessing the matchups will be as follows:

Artest on Pierce
Kobe on Rondo
Fisher on Allen

Allen may be the Finals MVP if Fisher guards him all series.

Bynum has averaged 7.5 a game over the last two series. Like I said, he can't be counted on. I think they're better off with Odom seeing 30 minutes than they are with Bynum.

I personally don't think Artest is even close to the defender he used to be, and find it hard to believe the Lakers "picked" Artest over Ariza. Did they not offer to Ariza? I honestly don't remember/care. '09 Ariza is a better defender than '10 Artest, and I won't even comment on their shooting.

And let's not act like it takes a lot to defend Kendrick Perkins.
Ariza and Artest both got MLE. The Lakers picked Artest, and Artest is a better player than Ariza is.

In the 08 finals, the Lakers problem was not Rondo nor was it Allen. The problem was Paul Piece and Kendrick Perkins being a fatty. Artest will do a much better job than Walton/Rad did, and the Lakers have Bynum to deal with Perkins this time.

And no, Ariza has never been a better defender than Ron Artest. Go look at what Artest did to Kevin Durant in the first round. The Lakers got Artest for series like this.

And people have to stop acting like Fisher is useless on defense. Yeah, Westbrook killed him in round 1, but he more than held his own against Deron and Nash. Ray Allen is not going to go all Russel Westbrook and beat him off the dribble. Fisher can chase him around screens, it's really not even a worry. Fisher has been MUCH better this year than he was last year.

Homer Bailey

06-01-2010, 06:07 PM

Its not like Perkins scores 20 ppg, they need Bynum for Defense. Fisher always guards Allen, he's very good at fighting the screens. And bynum is going to play like 20 minutes, and Odom is still going to get 30 minutes, like in the regular season, so i don't see your point. Gasol can't play Center the whole game. If you start Odom theat makes the bench very weak. Didn"t you see what Artest did to Durant?? Ariza wouldnt have played that defense on Durant, Melo always kills Ariza because of his size, Ariza struggels with bigger players, and they didn't offer Ariza anything, they made their offer to Artest. And its not guarding Perkins thats the problem, its the rebounding, GASOL gets pushed around by Perkins because of his size, Garnett pushes around Odom because of his size, so having Bynum helps the Lakers wih the rebounding

I saw Kevin Durant look like the 21 year old (22?) that he is. I'll bet that Paul Pierce is going to use Artest's physicallness agaisnt him, and flop his way into a few fouls (I'm no Pierce fan, but he's a wily veteran).

I never said anything about Odom starting. It doesn't matter who starts. It matters who gets more minutes. Sure Bynum can help on defense/rebounding, but he isn't physically ready for big minutes at this point. So, like I said, he can't really be relied upon.

reds44

06-01-2010, 06:09 PM

I saw Kevin Durant look like the 21 year old (22?) that he is. I'll bet that Paul Pierce is going to use Artest's physicallness agaisnt him, and flop his way into a few fouls (I'm no Pierce fan, but he's a wily veteran).

I never said anything about Odom starting. It doesn't matter who starts. It matters who gets more minutes. Sure Bynum can help on defense/rebounding, but he isn't physically ready for big minutes at this point. So, like I said, he can't really be relied upon.
Yeah, because lord knows Ron Artest has never guarded a superstar before.

Ron Artest is a much, much better and smarter player than you're giving him credit for.

The Lakers matchup with the Celtics much better than they did last time around.

Kobe/Rondo
Fisher/Allen
Artest/Pierce
Gasol/KG
Bynum/Perkins

Odom/Wallace

RedLakerFan24

06-01-2010, 06:10 PM

I saw Kevin Durant look like the 21 year old (22?) that he is. I'll bet that Paul Pierce is going to use Artest's physicallness agaisnt him, and flop his way into a few fouls (I'm no Pierce fan, but he's a wily veteran).

I never said anything about Odom starting. It doesn't matter who starts. It matters who gets more minutes. Sure Bynum can help on defense/rebounding, but he isn't physically ready for big minutes at this point. So, like I said, he can't really be relied upon.

Im not saying Artest is going to stop Pierce, but he's going to do a way better job then what Walton/Rad did. Bynum has been playing pretty solid, not bad, in the Zone defense i kida ruin his numbers, just like they did with Gasols, so dont look at his ppg

Homer Bailey

06-01-2010, 06:18 PM

Yeah, because lord knows Ron Artest has never guarded a superstar before.

Ron Artest is a much, much better and smarter player than you're giving him credit for.

The Lakers matchup with the Celtics much better than they did last time around.

Kobe/Rondo
Fisher/Allen
Artest/Pierce
Gasol/KG
Bynum/Perkins

Odom/Wallace

I never said Artest hasn't guarded a superstar before. I just don't think he's nearly the defender he used to be. Add in the fact that he can't shoot, and you have a player that isn't very valuable (in the first year of a 5 year deal).

I have very legit doubts about 3 of the 5 starters on the Lakers. Granted, Kobe is the best player in this series, and Gasol is certainly one of the top 4 players of the series.

reds44

06-01-2010, 06:21 PM

I never said Artest hasn't guarded a superstar before. I just don't think he's nearly the defender he used to be. Add in the fact that he can't shoot, and you have a player that isn't very valuable (in the first year of a 5 year deal).

I have very legit doubts about 3 of the 5 starters on the Lakers. Granted, Kobe is the best player in this series, and Gasol is certainly one of the top 4 players of the series.
I think he proved in the first round he is a damn good defender.

And jesus, Ron Artest is 30, not 55.

RBA

06-01-2010, 06:26 PM

Bynum had his knee drained yesterday and he's expected to have better mobility. He still won't be 100 percent healthy, but he will likely be playing better than he has done in the playoff thus far.

reds44

06-01-2010, 06:28 PM

Bynum had his knee drained yesterday and he's expected to have better mobility. He still won't be 100 percent healthy, but he will likely be playing better than he has done in the playoff thus far.
See also: Kobe's numbers pre and post getting his knee drained.

RBA

06-01-2010, 06:47 PM

See also: Kobe's numbers pre and post getting his knee drained.

Yup, Bynum is going to start putting in threes while two Boston defenders are in his face. :D

reds44

06-01-2010, 06:53 PM

Yup, Bynum is going to start putting in threes while two Boston defenders are in his face. :D

YouTube - Andrew Bynum Shoots A 3 Pointer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcYGrphj5Nk)

improbus

06-01-2010, 08:52 PM

Lakers v. Celtics:

Perkins > Bynum
Garnett < Gasol
Pierce > Artest
Allen < Bryant
Rondo > Fisher

6th Man
Davis < Odom

Bench
Celtics > Lakers

I like what you're doing here, but I think you could take it a degree further
Perkins = Bynum - Bynum is better but hurt and Perk has not lived up to his play of two years ago and is a threat to be suspended.
Garnett << Gasol - Garnett has flashes, but can't be consistent. Gasol should eat him up.
Pierce > Artest - Pierce is better than Artest, but I do think that Artest matches up well with Pierce. Pierce relies on old-man-moves and muscle which Artest can still defend very well. That said, if Artest takes over 4 threes a game, the Celtics would be thrilled.
Allen <<< Bryant - Kobe can sense Jordan's 6 championships. But, don't forget that he just about quit in the 2008 Finals.
Rondo >>>> Fisher - Four arrows may not be enough. Fish will make one or two veteran clever plays a game but Rondo will make twenty great athletic plays.

6th Man
Davis << Odom - Odom's length is devastating and Davis is very inconsistent.

Bench
Celtics > Lakers - The Lakers Bench has played one good game (even the Machine hit some shots), but I would expect Boston's bench (with the rejuvenated Nate Robinson) to outperform them.

RedLakerFan24

06-02-2010, 12:09 AM

In the previous post, we discussed the Paul Pierce vs. Ron Artest matchup that is sure to be a focal point of the 2010 NBA Finals due to the fact that Artest is one of the few changes to the starting lineup since these teams last met in the 2008 championship round.

So how exactly has Pierce fared against Artest? The wizards at ESPN Stats & Information crunched the numbers and Artest has enjoyed more success than you might think as Pierce is averaging a mere 0.58 points per play against Artest over the past three regular seasons.

To quantify that, let's first explain how that metric is determined: A play is defined as any field goal attempt, trip to the foul line, or turnover. The only plays registered are when Artest is the initial defender, and does not include points scored off switches, offensive rebounds, cuts, and transition plays.

In a nutshell, this is 1-on-1 basketball. Ball-handler vs. defender.

Under that scenario, Pierce ran 38 plays and scored 22 points on 6-of-26 shooting (23.1 percent) with eight turnovers and four trips to the foul line. The mere fact that Pierce generated more turnovers than field goals suggests Artest has dominated the matchup.

Given the way Pierce struggled offensively against Cleveland's LeBron James, it's worth watching if he's able to keep up his offensive exploits from the Eastern Confernce finals against the Magic. After all, Pierce will likely draw the already daunting task of guarding Kobe Bryant, much like he checked James in the second round, and used up much of his energy at that end of the floor.

Here's one more set of numbers for you to chomp on: The last time Pierce and Artest met in the postseason was the opening round of the 2004 playoffs. Not only did the Pacers sweep, Pierce averaged 20.8 points per game on 34.2 percent shooting (just 29.4 percent from beyond the arc, while committing 6.3 turnovers per game.

reds44

06-02-2010, 12:34 AM

Good stuff right there.

Joseph

06-03-2010, 07:51 PM

Boston in 6.

Random prediction as I don't watch much if any NBA ball.

reds44

06-03-2010, 08:31 PM

I'll go Lakers in 6.

I can't handle another finals loss to Boston.

The Voice of IH

06-03-2010, 08:53 PM

Celtics in 6 for ME!

texasdave

06-03-2010, 09:07 PM

Lakers in 6 (but 5 wouldn't surprise me either).

texasdave

06-03-2010, 11:19 PM

Celtics aren't 'stealing' the first one.

reds44

06-03-2010, 11:59 PM

The difference between this series and the one two years ago is Bynum and Artest. We're a better team then we were then, and the Celtics aren't as good.

Three.

RBA

06-04-2010, 12:09 AM

http://i45.tinypic.com/2j5dmbs.gif

Homer Bailey

06-04-2010, 12:11 AM

reds44

06-04-2010, 12:12 AM

The difference is the Gasol/KG matchup, which is just embarrassing. Artest can not be counted on for that offensive output for the rest of the series. Needless to say he was very good tonight.

Gasol's 8 offensive boards were the difference in the game.
No. The difference is Bynum and Artest. Having Bynum keeps the more physical Perkins off of Gasol. Gasol will get his against KG at this point in his career.

And please, Artest was nailing open shots tonight. If teams are going to give Ron Ron open looks, he will hit them. He's not a horrible offensive player, and Pierce, who killed us two years ago, was contained tonight.

Having the bigger body of Artest forces Allen to guard Kobe, and clearly that got Ray into foul trouble tonight.

reds44

06-04-2010, 12:14 AM

http://i45.tinypic.com/2j5dmbs.gif
I'm not sure if this or Phil yelling at Chris Rock was better.

reds44

06-04-2010, 12:15 AM

If the Lakers are going to out physical the Celtics like they did tonight, this will be a very short series.

With that being said, I expect a different effort from the C's come Sunday.

Homer Bailey

06-04-2010, 12:32 AM

No. The difference is Bynum and Artest. Having Bynum keeps the more physical Perkins off of Gasol. Gasol will get his against KG at this point in his career.

And please, Artest was nailing open shots tonight. If teams are going to give Ron Ron open looks, he will hit them. He's not a horrible offensive player, and Pierce, who killed us two years ago, was contained tonight.

Having the bigger body of Artest forces Allen to guard Kobe, and clearly that got Ray into foul trouble tonight.

I'm just not going to do this all series long.

If it's a tightly officiated game like it was tonight, the Celtics have zero chance.

reds44

06-04-2010, 12:33 AM

I'm just not going to do this all series long.

If it's a tightly officiated game like it was tonight, the Celtics have zero chance.
The Celtics shot six more free throws than the Lakers did.

Find somebody else to blame.

texasdave

06-04-2010, 12:53 AM

Celtics had zero chance anyway. The Los Angeles Lakers are the best team in the NBA this year.

Homer Bailey

06-04-2010, 12:54 AM

The Celtics shot six more free throws than the Lakers did.

Find somebody else to blame.

Never said the officiating favored the Celtics. I said if it's going to be tightly officiated, it's going to favor the Lakers.

And if you want to get technical, the Celtics were called for more fouls than the Lakers were.

reds44

06-04-2010, 12:55 AM

Never said the officiating favored the Celtics. I said if it's going to be tightly officiated, it's going to favor the Lakers.

And if you want to get technical, the Celtics were called for more fouls than the Lakers were.
How does a tightly officiated game favor the Lakers?

Homer Bailey

06-04-2010, 12:59 AM

How does a tightly officiated game favor the Lakers?

The Celtics entire defensive strategy is based on their physicalness. They didn't even play very physical tonight and got called for 28 fouls. They aren't going to be able to defend effectively if they can't by physical, especially with Gasol.

Officiating tonight was terrible, and I think the C's even got the benefit of the calls. Some of those Artest and Fisher fouls were straight garbage. The Odom call under the hoop was awful. The Allen foul on the Kobe elbow jumper was the worst call of the game. It's not going to be a fun series if there are going to be 52 fouls called, especially in a game where one team isn't fouling to catch up in the end.

reds44

06-04-2010, 01:01 AM

The Celtics entire defensive strategy is based on their physicalness. They didn't even play very physical tonight and got called for 28 fouls. They aren't going to be able to defend effectively if they can't by physical, especially with Gasol.

Officiating tonight was terrible, and I think the C's even got the benefit of the calls. Some of those Artest and Fisher fouls were straight garbage. The Odom call under the hoop was awful. The Allen foul on the Kobe elbow jumper was the worst call of the game. It's not going to be a fun series if there are going to be 52 fouls called, especially in a game where one team isn't fouling to catch up in the end.
In theory, their defensive strategy is based on their physicality, but when you consider the Lakers out-physicaled (that's not a word) the Celtics tonight, I'm not sure you can say it's advantage Lakers.

I'll agree that the refs were bad both ways tonight, though.

RedLakerFan24

06-04-2010, 02:27 AM

Lakers in 3

Homer Bailey

06-06-2010, 11:02 PM

And please, Artest was nailing open shots tonight. If teams are going to give Ron Ron open looks, he will hit them. He's not a horrible offensive player.

Care to rescind that one?

Scrap Irony

06-06-2010, 11:32 PM

When Rondo is on, the Celtics are the better team. He is the straw that stirs Boston's drink, certainly.

The major question going forward, obviously, is whether Rondo can have three more great games before he has three bad (or even average) ones.

Some comments:
Ray Allen: greatest shooter in the history of the NBA? Reggie Miller may argue, but that's about it.

There is no truth to the rumor that NBA Final officials are paid per whistle. If that were so, they'd be virtual millionaires. Blech.

If Kobe doesn't score 30, the Lakers might not have enough offense to win. Imagine that pressure-- score 30 or lose. Gotta be tough.

Ron Artest is not the original Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde, but he sure plays that way. Perhaps the dumbest smart player in basketball history. (With possible exceptions to Danny Ainge and John Starks.) He's got to be hard to root for.

Derek Fisher looks really, really old when Rajon Rondo flies around him.

Andrew Bynum played really, really well tonight. Seven blocks and aggressive post-up play. If he can ever get healthy, that kid could do some damage, either as a legitimate third option for LA or for someone else.

Speaking of options, Pau Gasol might be the ugliest basketball player since Kevin McHale. Check that: Gasol is who McHale would be if he were born 30 years later. And in another country. (Though, to be fair, Minnesota could be considered another country.)

I miss Luke Walton.

I don't miss Bill Walton.

While you were reading this, Rajon Rondo grabbed two rebounds, stole the ball once, scored on lay-up, and blocked a shot. Magic Johnson also had a brain anuerism trying to describe Rondo's play.

kaldaniels

06-06-2010, 11:50 PM

Wow. Watching Stu Scott do the highlights on ESPN is unbearable.

Homer Bailey

06-07-2010, 12:06 AM

Wow. Watching Stu Scott do the highlights on ESPN is unbearable.

The whole highlight was about Kobe being sweet, and he was not.

RedLakerFan24

06-07-2010, 01:55 AM

I Hate the Refs

reds44

06-07-2010, 03:59 AM

I Hate the Refs
KG was in foul trouble too and the Lakers shot 15(?) more free throws. Tough to blame the refs. Lakers just choked down the stretch.

blumj

06-07-2010, 09:15 AM

There's really not enough game between the fouls, though. Is that the refs or the players?

Roy Tucker

06-07-2010, 09:35 AM

This series will go 7 games.

I thought Kobe looked a little tired.

I think Rondo makes a lot of guys look old. The Lakers need a thug to clotheline Rondo driving the lane to slow him down. But they don't have anyone like that.

Homer Bailey

06-07-2010, 10:48 AM

I Hate the Refs

LOL

UKFlounder

06-07-2010, 11:07 AM

But if they had someone, he'd need to be someone who could finish the job. Shaq & Dwight Howard both put hard licks on Rondo in the past 2 series, and he stayed down for a while, but came back & was strong to help eliminate Cleveland & Orlando. It's not enough just to knock him down hard once and hope that works.

This series will go 7 games.

I thought Kobe looked a little tired.

I think Rondo makes a lot of guys look old. The Lakers need a thug to clotheline Rondo driving the lane to slow him down. But they don't have anyone like that.

RBA

06-07-2010, 11:33 AM

I was going to go with Lakers in 7, but now I'll go with lakers in 6.

Homer Bailey

06-07-2010, 11:51 AM

I was going to go with Lakers in 7, but now I'll go with lakers in 6.

The split made you reduce the number of games they'll win in? You really think they'll win two in Boston?

RBA

06-07-2010, 12:02 PM

The split made you reduce the number of games they'll win in? You really think they'll win two in Boston?

That's what I said. Watch and learn.

Homer Bailey

06-07-2010, 12:09 PM

That's what I said. Watch and learn.

Sig bet on the 3 game mini-series in Boston?

Homer Bailey

06-07-2010, 04:47 PM

That's what I said. Watch and learn.

Sig bet on the 3 game mini-series in Boston?

No?

reds44

06-07-2010, 06:58 PM

Would you really be that surprised if the Lakers got 2 in Boston? I wouldn't be, not at all.

I have no reason to fear Boston after two games. For some reason I doubt they'll be another game where Ray Allen breaks the NBA record for 3s and Kobe is in foul trouble the entire game.

Homer Bailey

06-07-2010, 08:58 PM

Would you really be that surprised if the Lakers got 2 in Boston? I wouldn't be, not at all.

Yes I would be. By my count, LA is 2-4 in road playoff games against OKC and Phoenix, and one of the wins on a fluke put back by Gasol after a Kobe brick. They've not impressed me with their road play. (Let's be serious about the Utah matchup).

I have no reason to fear Boston after two games. For some reason I doubt they'll be another game where Ray Allen breaks the NBA record for 3s and Kobe is in foul trouble the entire game.

Do you expect Garnett/Pierce to go 4/16 as well? Do you expect Bynum/Gasol to block 13 shots and shoot 65%?

You can talk yourself into it however you want, but it's a five game series now, and Boston has the home court advantage.

reds44

06-07-2010, 09:59 PM

There's no reason not to expect Gasol to play that well. Maybe Bynum won't play as well, but Odom won't play as poorly either.

And yes, KG is a non factor in this series and Artest always handles Pierce.

And again, have you watched the Lakers play? They've gone on the road up 2-0 in every series. There has been very little sense of urgency. In close out games, the Lakers are 3-0. It's all about a sense of urgency.

And yes, I know what it is. The Celtics aren't sweeping the Lakers in Boston, and they aren't clinching at Staples either.

RedLakerFan24

06-08-2010, 01:31 AM

Yes I would be. By my count, LA is 2-4 in road playoff games against OKC and Phoenix, and one of the wins on a fluke put back by Gasol after a Kobe brick. They've not impressed me with their road play. (Let's be serious about the Utah matchup).

Do you expect Garnett/Pierce to go 4/16 as well? Do you expect Bynum/Gasol to block 13 shots and shoot 65%?

You can talk yourself into it however you want, but it's a five game series now, and Boston has the home court advantage.

When the Lakers need a win on the Road they get a win, look at last year

Jack Burton

06-08-2010, 11:44 AM

I Hate the Refs

That's funny coming from a lakers fan

RBA

06-08-2010, 12:51 PM

That's funny coming from a lakers fan

I think it's funny after the refs consult video replay they still can't make the right call. :D

I think basketball is too fast a game and it turns into a guessing game with the officials. I always said that whether it's the Lakers or any other team getting the phathom calls.

WMR

06-08-2010, 01:01 PM

No?

I'm afraid he's a......

YouTube - Arrested Development Chicken Dance Remix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-hFbuWIKAA)

RBA

06-08-2010, 01:15 PM

I'm afraid he's a......

YouTube - Arrested Development Chicken Dance Remix (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-hFbuWIKAA)

I can't see the video, but I have a feeling it's on the childish behavior side. So be it.

Razor Shines

06-08-2010, 02:44 PM

I can't see the video, but I have a feeling it's on the childish behavior side. So be it.

If you're at all a fan of Arrested Development, you'd laugh. Koo-Koo Ka-Chaaa!

RBA

06-08-2010, 03:00 PM

If you're at all a fan of Arrested Development, you'd laugh. Koo-Koo Ka-Chaaa!

I'm sure.

I need to lighten up. I'm bias, I don't know what's going to happen in these finals. But I wouldn't be suprise for the Lakers to win 2 out of 3 or Boston win 2 out of 3. I would be shocked if either team won all 3 at TDG.

texasdave

06-08-2010, 11:52 PM

Home court advantage back to the Lakers. Not sure what that means since the road team has now won 2 of the first 3.

Scrap Irony

06-08-2010, 11:55 PM

I Hate the Refs

You should love them after Game Three.

Phantom calls on both Davis and Wallace and a really, really questionable offensive call on Allen during a decisive 8-0 run late in the fourth quarter that took the game from one point to nine.

I don't see how Derek Fisher is allowed to play. He fouls every time down court. He grabs. He clutches. No call. Ever. Not once.

I realize other players do the same thing. I know Boston does as well.

But, man, the guy is just blatant about it. Every pick, he's grabbing jersey.

reds44

06-08-2010, 11:59 PM

The refs have been awful both ways in this series.

I love Derek Fisher. Once a year, he has a game where he saves our butt. Last year it was game 4, this year it was game 3. We don't win this game without him.

Homer, I hope you stop trying to rationalize what the Lakers do. I'm sure you'll come back here and say "Fisher won't play like that again." The Lakers know how to win, period.

Oh and Mr. Pierce, I hope you're right about this series not going back to LA.

reds44

06-09-2010, 12:03 AM

Oh, and props to Andrew Bynum tonight too. His stat line won't show it, but he played well tonight. Played hard on the defensive end.

reds44

06-09-2010, 12:09 AM

Home court advantage back to the Lakers. Not sure what that means since the road team has now won 2 of the first 3.
I won't feel comfortable going back to LA down 3-2. I want another one in Boston.

Homer Bailey

06-09-2010, 12:16 AM

texasdave

06-09-2010, 12:16 AM

Aren't all the preliminary rounds scheduled 2-2-1-1-1? Why would it change to 2-3-2 for the finals? Anyone know?

Homer Bailey

06-09-2010, 12:17 AM

Aren't all the preliminary rounds scheduled 2-2-1-1-1? Why would it change to 2-3-2 for the finals? Anyone know?

The long distance between the cities. That way players/coaches/media won't have to fly 15,000 miles.

reds44

06-09-2010, 12:18 AM

No rationalization from me. Celtics just couldn't get over the hump. Kobe was trying to give the game away and Fisher bailed him out. Can't believe he missed that many shots and they still won. That being said, if Allen does ANYTHING right, the Celtics win. You can't say Allen went 0 for 13 because "The Lakers know how to win."

C's obviously have to win the next two or this ones over. Still very possible. I figured the Lakers would get one in Boston, but I thought it would be Game 5.
No, but am I surprised Allen was that bad?

I have no reason to fear Boston after two games. For some reason I doubt they'll be another game where Ray Allen breaks the NBA record for 3s and Kobe is in foul trouble the entire game.

Say hello to the due factor.

And please with that Kobe garbage. Our offense stalled for the entire 2nd half and the majority of it was Kobe having to take contested shots with the shot clock winding down.

texasdave

06-09-2010, 12:19 AM

The long distance between the cities. That way players/coaches/media won't have to fly 15,000 miles.

Thanks. This makes sense.

Homer Bailey

06-09-2010, 12:23 AM

No, but am I surprised Allen was that bad?

Say hello to the due factor.

Bold prediction saying he wouldn't have another record night. No one could have predicted he would have followed it with one of the worst nights ever. There is no such thing as a due factor. You and I both know that.

And please with that Kobe garbage. Our offense stalled for the entire 2nd half and the majority of it was Kobe having to take contested shots with the shot clock winding down.

I'm honestly shocked that people are going to defend Kobe's performance tonight. I know people follow him blindly, but this one honestly shocks me.

Gasol can take Garnett in the post any time he wants, but Kobe dribbles, fakes, fakes again, and shoots fadeaways all night. IT IS OK TO SAY KOBE PLAYED POORLY! It's honestly foolish to defend him when he throws up a stinker, because it makes it hard to take anything else that's being said seriously.

reds44

06-09-2010, 12:26 AM

Bold prediction saying he wouldn't have another record night. No one could have predicted he would have followed it with one of the worst nights ever. There is no such thing as a due factor. You and I both know that.

I'm honestly shocked that people are going to defend Kobe's performance tonight. I know people follow him blindly, but this one honestly shocks me.

Gasol can take Garnett in the post any time he wants, but Kobe dribbles, fakes, fakes again, and shoots fadeaways all night. IT IS OK TO SAY KOBE PLAYED POORLY! It's honestly foolish to defend him when he throws up a stinker, because it makes it hard to take anything else that's being said seriously.
Did you watch the game? The Lakers couldn't get into their offense. The Celtics defense was pushing the Lakers further and further out and they made entry passes impossible. I don't think Kobe played poorly, I think the Celtics played great defense on the Lakers and it forced Kobe into tough shots.

And I could have told you Allen had a bad game coming. Maybe not that bad, but bad. I still want to know if you're going to try to convince us all that Pierce isn't going to continue sucking.

Homer Bailey

06-09-2010, 12:44 AM

Did you watch the game? The Lakers couldn't get into their offense. The Celtics defense was pushing the Lakers further and further out and they made entry passes impossible. I don't think Kobe played poorly, I think the Celtics played great defense on the Lakers and it forced Kobe into tough shots.

And I could have told you Allen had a bad game coming. Maybe not that bad, but bad. I still want to know if you're going to try to convince us all that Pierce isn't going to continue sucking.

The rest of the Lakers went 24-37 - Over 50%. The only one struggling on offense was Bryant. He's shooting 39% for the series. He has NOT been good.

You don't honestly believe that the Lakers were physically not capable of throwing passes to Gasol are you? Because the Celtics played behind Gasol the entire night.

Sure you could have told me Allen had a bad game coming. You didn't, and hindsight is 20/20.

Pierce hasn't been good. It wasn't because of Artest tonight though. He was missing shots over Luke Walton, and refusing to take him to the hole. Weird night for him.

Artest was great on Pierce in game 2.

reds44

06-09-2010, 01:31 AM

The rest of the Lakers went 24-37 - Over 50%. The only one struggling on offense was Bryant. He's shooting 39% for the series. He has NOT been good.

You don't honestly believe that the Lakers were physically not capable of throwing passes to Gasol are you? Because the Celtics played behind Gasol the entire night.

Sure you could have told me Allen had a bad game coming. You didn't, and hindsight is 20/20.

Pierce hasn't been good. It wasn't because of Artest tonight though. He was missing shots over Luke Walton, and refusing to take him to the hole. Weird night for him.

Artest was great on Pierce in game 2.
Go back and look who was taking the shots late in the shot clock. It was Kobe. That's why his shooting percentage was so bad.

And yes, I watch the game, the Celtics big were pushing the Laker bigs outside the pain. Not really a good idea to make an entry pass to a big man that far away from the basket.

RedLakerFan24

06-09-2010, 01:33 AM

Yeah Gasol always gets the ball, tires to get in, and he always kicks it out, thats why it the stats show he has no shot attempts

reds44

06-09-2010, 01:35 AM

Yeah Gasol always gets the ball, tires to get in, and he always kicks it out, thats why it the stats show he has no shot attempts
Yes.

NJReds

06-09-2010, 09:13 AM

Entertaining game last night. It's a tough series because I'm not a fan of either of these teams. I just wish the players would tone down the theatrics. A lot of people get on soccer players for their antics (rightly so), but between the flopping to draw cheap charge calls and the whining about every single call (especially the Celtics) really seemed over the top last night.

Roy Tucker

06-09-2010, 09:57 AM

Both teams are playing stifling defense. The NBA-standard pick and rolls are getting forced up against the sidelines and 5-10 ft. above the 3 point line and get stifled before they even begin. The big men seem agile enough to switch to stop the roll and then switch back. Every so often, a mismatch gets generated that gets taken advantage of, but for the most part, getting a good shot has been really hard to get.

There has been a lot of histrionics and flopping. And I don't have a dog in this hunt either but I think the refs have been pretty awful. I can't believe Bennet Salvatore is being allowed to ref a Finals. He really is incompetent. Its like CB Buckner doing a World Series.

Chip R

06-09-2010, 10:03 AM

This series should disprove to anyone who doesn't believe that there isn't any defense played in the NBA.

Sadly, I think that's it for BOS. I don't believe any team that lost the 3rd game of the 2-3-2 format has won the series. BOS just can't seem to get everyone going at the same time. Fisher and Odom were nails last night and Kobe made some unbelievable shots.

BRM

06-09-2010, 10:12 AM

This series should disprove to anyone who doesn't believe that there isn't any defense played in the NBA.

Unless you have the misfortune of watching a lot of Nuggets games. They don't play defense. I'm not sure they can even spell it. Which is why they were bounced early on.

It has been nice watching teams get after it defensively. Nice change of pace for me anyway.

Cedric

06-10-2010, 11:07 PM

Unless you have the misfortune of watching a lot of Nuggets games. They don't play defense. I'm not sure they can even spell it. Which is why they were bounced early on.

It has been nice watching teams get after it defensively. Nice change of pace for me anyway.

This is defense? I'm sorry but it's not.

It's bad basketball. The league is full of players with absolutely no idea no how to play fundamental basketball. It's a byproduct of players who just want to dunk and run. They don't know how to handle when the game slows down.

WMR

06-10-2010, 11:36 PM

Wow, that was epically stupid, Ray Allen. Aren't you a veteran player?

Mark Jackson trying to suggest it wasn't a horrible decision is laughable.

Homer Bailey

06-10-2010, 11:59 PM

RBA

06-11-2010, 12:01 AM

Saying I didn't enjoy that game would be an understatement.

Homer Bailey

06-11-2010, 12:13 AM

Saying I didn't enjoy that game would be an understatement.

I laughed at the sig, I must say. I'll play along as well, as the Lakers are winning game 5.

RedLakerFan24

06-11-2010, 01:49 AM

C's got away with that block call on Kobe, but they would have won anyway. They just wanted it more.

Lakers win the next one and clinch in 6.

Kobe has 6 4th quarter field goals in the last 3 games. In the NBA finals. Please cool the best closer in the game talk. He also had 7 turnovers tonight.

No, if Bynum isn't healthy the Celtics will win, today was a perfect example of how valuable Bynum is. He only played 12 minutes, i didn"t see the game because i was working but i saw that the Lakers got out rebounded

reds44

06-11-2010, 02:19 AM

No, if Bynum isn't healthy the Celtics will win, today was a perfect example of how valuable Bynum is. He only played 12 minutes, i didn"t see the game because i was working but i saw that the Lakers got out rebounded
Uh huh. Lakers defense/rebounding is totally different with Bynum on the floor.

With that being said, this was a game the Celtics just wanted more. Lakers did their typical "we don't need this game so we're not gonna play balls out" thing.

RedLakerFan24

06-11-2010, 02:25 AM

Uh huh. Lakers defense/rebounding is totally different with Bynum on the floor.

With that being said, this was a game the Celtics just wanted more. Lakers did their typical "we don't need this game so we're not gonna play balls out" thing.

Oh, i didn't see the game, i just assume it was cause of Bynum.

Homer Bailey

06-11-2010, 10:23 AM

As I said before the series, Bynum could not be counted on. It's just that simple.

However, as bad as Kobe has been, I don't think he'll let the Lakers lose game 5.

BRM

06-11-2010, 10:37 AM

This is defense? I'm sorry but it's not.

It's bad basketball. The league is full of players with absolutely no idea no how to play fundamental basketball. It's a byproduct of players who just want to dunk and run. They don't know how to handle when the game slows down.

It's defense compared to a lot of teams in the NBA, especially the team I watch most of the time. But all in all, I agree with a lot of that last paragraph. I don't enjoy the NBA nearly as much now as I used to.

blumj

06-11-2010, 01:58 PM

It's defense compared to a lot of teams in the NBA, especially the team I watch most of the time. But all in all, I agree with a lot of that last paragraph. I don't enjoy the NBA nearly as much now as I used to.
I don't know anything about basketball at all. Seems to me like they can't do anything without it being a foul, though. Is that because they're not doing it the right way?

Joseph

06-11-2010, 06:08 PM

The NBA is full of a lot of athletic players with a lot less skill these days compared to day of yore [/old].

reds44

06-12-2010, 03:22 PM

As I said before the series, Bynum could not be counted on. It's just that simple.

However, as bad as Kobe has been, I don't think he'll let the Lakers lose game 5.
Holy mother of God, Kobe had 33 and 6 on Thursday, stop treating him like Ron Artest.

Homer Bailey

06-12-2010, 11:57 PM

Holy mother of God, Kobe had 33 and 6 on Thursday, stop treating him like Ron Artest.

7 turnovers, 1 meaningful basket in the 4th, as we watched it get away. He was not good. The pass that Rondo stole cost them the game.

When he's good, I have no problem giving him credit. He's been bad every game but game 1.

improbus

06-13-2010, 09:47 PM

Kobe is absolutely out of his mind. 19 so far in the 3rd.

Boston Red

06-13-2010, 10:11 PM

Kobe is absolutely out of his mind. 19 so far in the 3rd.

Not much help.

marcshoe

06-13-2010, 10:40 PM

I'm rooting for the Celtics, but that shot did not hit the rim.

Boston Red

06-13-2010, 10:40 PM

I bet on the Celtics, so I think it was a brilliant call.

Boston Red

06-13-2010, 10:42 PM

Both teams trying to give this one away. This one won't be going in the ESPN Classic vault.

marcshoe

06-13-2010, 10:44 PM

That was nice, though.

Boston Red

06-13-2010, 10:51 PM

I'll still be shocked if the Celtics manage to win again in L.A. Of course, I expected them to lose to Cleveland and Orlando, too.

marcshoe

06-13-2010, 10:57 PM

I've been a college-only guy for years, but something about the NBA caught my attention this year, and I found out that several teams were fun to watch, the Celtics being one of them. I really enjoy watching Pierce, particularly. It feels funny to root against the Lakers, though, since when I was small I had a poster on my wall with Jerry West, Wilt, and Elgin Baylor. Back then, being a West Virginian meant being a Laker fan.

Homer Bailey

06-13-2010, 11:21 PM

Chip R

06-13-2010, 11:27 PM

I'm rooting for the Celtics, but that shot did not hit the rim.

Actually, I think it did. At the point when it was right by the rim, the path of the ball changed like it did hit the rim.

Homer Bailey

06-13-2010, 11:30 PM

Actually, I think it did. At the point when it was right by the rim, the path of the ball changed like it did hit the rim.

The view from straight on shows the spin of the ball change as it glances off the rim.

Either way, impossible call to make in real time.

WMR

06-13-2010, 11:50 PM

Good thing RBA didn't take that sig bet. :D

reds44

06-14-2010, 12:41 AM

Kobe went OFF in the 3rd, but again, he was held to 2 of 6 in the fourth quarter. That's 4 games in a row he has flat out failed in the 4th quarter. He got little to no help. Artest continues to just be awful.

Celtics big 4 had their best game of the series, and only need one more to win me my +500 future bet on them. I'm still not sure they do it. I keep waiting on the game that Kobe just refuses to let them lose, and am holding out judgment until the series is over. We shall see.
Your Kobe hate is unbelievable. It really is. He was literally the only player that showed up for the Lakers today and the best you can do is say he went 2 for 6 in the 4th? Really? Keep in mind two of his 4 misses were absolute desperation 3s with under a minute left.

Today was the game where Kobe refused to let them lose, the problem in the rest of the team was horsecrap.

I don't see us winning both games in LA. This has turned into the same series as two years ago. Bynum is died and Gasol has gone to crap.

reds44

06-14-2010, 12:48 AM

Kobe had 38 points on 13-27 shooting.

The REST OF THE TEAM had 48 points on 18-51 shooting.

Homer Bailey

06-14-2010, 01:11 AM

The rest of the team was awful. Kobe, for the most part was outstanding. However, he was not the "closer" that he is supposed to be, which is all I criticized him for.

reds44

06-14-2010, 01:13 AM

The rest of the team was awful. Kobe, for the most part was outstanding. However, he was not the "closer" that he is supposed to be, which is all I criticized him for.
They never had the lead, what was he supposed to close?

Scrap Irony

06-14-2010, 09:26 AM

I agree in part with HB. Bryant had a HoF 3rd quarter, one of the best quarters in Finals history.

His fourth quarter was... forgettable.

Games like this, where he "fails" to lead his team to victory, are why many insist Kobe is overrated, or some other such bluster. Bryant had three lousy quarters. Lousy. He had one transcendent quarter.

The haters are going to remember the three lousy quarters.

Kobe Fans will remember the 3rd quarter.

reds44

06-14-2010, 02:20 PM

He scored 38 points.

If you're going to remember anything about how he played other than "great" then, well, no comment.

Roy Tucker

06-14-2010, 02:26 PM

I thought it was conclusive the ball hit the rim.

I also thought Kobe was brilliant. I can't believe the number of very contested shots he made. I mean, Allen was chest-to-chest and a hand in Kobe's face and the ball still goes in.

But the Lakers need to get their O in gear. If the only way they can score is for Kobe to make impossible shot after impossible shot, they ain't winning. Gasol contributed some, but Odom and Fisher and someone off the bench has to catch fire. Bynum is too gimpy.

Phil Jackson needs to figure out a way to defeat the Celtics D.