The Lebron saga

[reds44]

What if LeBron hits four straight game winners in the Finals and Wade was hurt? Would it really be Wade's team then?
That's not going to happen, but if it did then it would be LeBron's team.

[Chip R]

Short term, this is going to hurt LeBron. But, realistically, he didn't do anything illegal. Perhaps you could say it was morally wrong to do what he did but people are going to disagree about that. People will forget about this and root for LeBron again. Perhaps without the same fervor as before but people without a dog in this hunt are going to root for arguably the best player in the game. People rooted for Kobe again and at the minimum, he cheated on his wife. Kobe excelled and led his team to 2 titles. If LeBron does the same thing, everyone who isn't a CLE fan will forget about all of this. Plus there will be another Olympics in 2 years. LeBron is a cinch to make the team if he chooses to play. That will also go a long ways in turning people back around on him - especially if they win the Gold again.

[Slyder]

Kareem's Bucks swept the Bullets in 1971, when he was still Lew

I meant with the Lakers.

[WMR]

LeBron has a twitvid for you guys....

YouTube - B.o.B - Haterz Everywhere [Feat. Rich Boy] (video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLhZ52vVK-I)

[TC81190]

Nope. ;)

I honestly don't think LeBron cares about who's team it is. That's why he went there. What I don't understand is people who are insisting that he's still THE star attraction for the team when he's clearly not.
did you watch this whole spectacle unfold? I would have to disagree with that notion.

[Yachtzee]

Short term, this is going to hurt LeBron. But, realistically, he didn't do anything illegal. Perhaps you could say it was morally wrong to do what he did but people are going to disagree about that. People will forget about this and root for LeBron again. Perhaps without the same fervor as before but people without a dog in this hunt are going to root for arguably the best player in the game. People rooted for Kobe again and at the minimum, he cheated on his wife. Kobe excelled and led his team to 2 titles. If LeBron does the same thing, everyone who isn't a CLE fan will forget about all of this. Plus there will be another Olympics in 2 years. LeBron is a cinch to make the team if he chooses to play. That will also go a long ways in turning people back around on him - especially if they win the Gold again.

I don't know. We'll have to see, but this is something different than making bad decisions that hurt your personal life but have no impact on the fans whatsoever. To engage in self-serving behavior that slaps the paying customers in the face, well people tend to have long memories, especially if they had shelled out a significant portion of their hard-earned money to support you and your team.

Before this whole debacle, LeBron was one of those players whose popularity transcended his team, and it showed in merchandise sales and endorsements. When you have a drawn-out free agency sham where fans stage elaborate pep rallies to try to obtain your services, not only in your hometown, but in many other markets, and then you put on a ridiculous infomercial to celebrate your greatness and the importance of your decision, when it now appears that was your choice all along, it ticks off a lot of people, from especially from Cleveland, New York and Chicago. In Cleveland, it hurt not only because it was self-serving and humiliating to do that on Live TV, but it also opened a lot of old wounds and gave certain members of the media the opportunity to make more potshots about how bad it is to live in Cleveland (It's not any worse than living in Cincinnati or Columbus, and a whole heck of a lot better than living in places like Flint, Michigan or Gary, Indiana).

Other than Heat fans, I this kind of stuff makes people think long and hard when deciding whether to spend their money on a superstar's jersey or basketball shoes, or spend it on something a little more lasting. I don't think people will hate him forever, but he's never going to get the same love from the fans that he had before "The Decision." I think it just creates more skepticism and drives a deeper wedge between professional athletes and the fans that buy the tickets to see them. When I think about buying team apparel for my kids, more and more I think it's better to buy them something with no name or number on the back, so they don't become too attached to a particular player.

[RBA]

I think the Heat is now Lebron's team.

[GaiusBallstar]

I think the Heat is now Lebron's team.

Until they win a championship, with him as "the guy," its Wade's team.

Guess the only way to find out is to let this unfold though.

[reds44]

Until they win a championship, with him as "the guy," its Wade's team.

Guess the only way to find out is to let this unfold though.
Which will never happen, unless Wade gets hurt.

For the love of Christ they renamed Dade County to "Wade County" when he was a free agent. Not for a day, for like 2 weeks.

[GaiusBallstar]

Which will never happen, unless Wade gets hurt.

For the love of Christ they renamed Dade County to "Wade County" when he was a free agent. Not for a day, for like 2 weeks.

Most likely your right it will never happen. But it will be interesting to see how they perform as a trio, who statistically contributes the most, and who the major media outlets(ESPN) spin as the "man"

The man most likely to be spinned in this way is Lebron. For instance, though it was a different situation in Boston, despite not being the guy who would most likely take the final shot in a big game, KG was widely hailed as the centerpiece of the team, or at least that's how it seemed to me. I didn't disagree with that either, though thats not really relevant.

But Miami is different, Wade already has a championship, but he achieved that with a different cast and the help of Shaq. We shall see how this whole thing plays out, but i agree with those who have said earlier that it'll probably fall apart within 3 years.

[bucksfan2]

Nope. ;)

I honestly don't think LeBron cares about who's team it is. That's why he went there. What I don't understand is people who are insisting that he's still THE star attraction for the team when he's clearly not.

I think you underestimate the ego that goes along with LBJ. He was a high school senior when his mother bought him a Hummer and had King James stitched into the head rest. Before he was drafted he vilified the Cavs when they fired Paul Silas. He has "the chosen one" tattooed across his back. He hosted a one hour special to tell the nation that he was going to take his talents to souf beach.

I think its easy for both LeBron and Wade to say its going to be "our" team. It won't matter we will share the ball and won't have an issue. But it will become an issue because they both play a similar position. They both have massive ego's and both want to be the hero. They very well may mesh together and not miss a step but if I were a betting man I would bet on tension developing as the season goes along.

[improbus]

I think you underestimate the ego that goes along with LBJ. He was a high school senior when his mother bought him a Hummer and had King James stitched into the head rest. Before he was drafted he vilified the Cavs when they fired Paul Silas. He has "the chosen one" tattooed across his back. He hosted a one hour special to tell the nation that he was going to take his talents to souf beach.

I think its easy for both LeBron and Wade to say its going to be "our" team. It won't matter we will share the ball and won't have an issue. But it will become an issue because they both play a similar position. They both have massive ego's and both want to be the hero. They very well may mesh together and not miss a step but if I were a betting man I would bet on tension developing as the season goes along.

But, I don't think that this stuff has anything to do with his teammates and on the court stuff. Until the (alleged) Delonte West situation, I don't think he ever had any issues with other players.

I think LeBron (and Wade) will be relieved not to have to dominate EVERY game. They will be alowed to have some off nights and not lose by 30.

[TeamSelig]

I'm not sure how Lebron will adjust to having real teammates. His assist numbers could skyrocket. Then again, Wade gets a lot of assists too so it might take from him.

My random predictions for next season:

LBJ - 24.1 PPG 9.7 APG 6.1 RPG .542 FG%
Wade - 23.5 PPG 5.1 APG 4.2 RPG .501 FG%
Bosh - 18.7 PPG 2.1 APG 8.7 RPG .567 FG%

[improbus]

I'm not sure how Lebron will adjust to having real teammates. His assist numbers could skyrocket. Then again, Wade gets a lot of assists too so it might take from him.

My random predictions for next season:

LBJ - 24.1 PPG 9.7 APG 6.1 RPG .542 FG%
Wade - 23.5 PPG 5.1 APG 4.2 RPG .501 FG%
Bosh - 18.7 PPG 2.1 APG 8.7 RPG .567 FG%

A friend of mine pointed out something I hadn't thought about. These guys are going to draw a TON of fouls. When you watch the Heat, get ready for the FT Parade.

[savafan]

Lebron is being sued by a lawyer who claims he's the superstar's father.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/07/08/lebron.james.lawsuit/index.html

[RBA]

Lebron is being sued by a lawyer who claims he's the superstar's father.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/07/08/lebron.james.lawsuit/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/07/08/lebron.james.lawsuit/index.html)



Stovell said his only request was that the child, if a boy, play basketball. :rolleyes:

[NJReds]

Lebron is being sued by a lawyer who claims he's the superstar's father.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/07/08/lebron.james.lawsuit/index.html

Even if it is true, I'm not sure why he'd be entitled to any of LeBron's money.

The most I can see that it would result is criminal charges against him, since LeBron's mom was alledgedly underage when he says he had relations with her.

[RBA]

Even if it is true, I'm not sure why he'd be entitled to any of LeBron's money.

The most I can see that it would result is criminal charges against him, since LeBron's mom was alledgedly underage when he says he had relations with her.


The article says she was 16.

Age of Consent for DC is 16

http://www.webistry.net/jan/consent.html (http://www.webistry.net/jan/consent.html)

If he took her to nearby Maryland it is 16
And if he took her to nearby Virginia it's 15

If he provided Alcohol to her or kept her up after curfew, etc, he could have been charged with contributing to the deliquency of a minor. :eek: But not for having sex with her.

[TeamSelig]

Statute of limitations? Maybe some of the law experts can chime in if that might be the case. Why would he bring it up, if he could be facing charges?

[Slyder]

Statute of limitations? Maybe some of the law experts can chime in if that might be the case. Why would he bring it up, if he could be facing charges?

Couldnt they turn around and get him on failure to pay child support? If he is indeed LeBron's dad (and I am even skeptical of that).

[TeamSelig]

Couldnt they turn around and get him on failure to pay child support? If he is indeed LeBron's dad (and I am even skeptical of that).

I would think so. I doubt this guy is his father anyway. I still think it is Greg Oden.


http://lowposts.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/greg_oden.jpg

[Hoosier Red]

did you watch this whole spectacle unfold? I would have to disagree with that notion.

I didn't and I could be wrong as I know very little about the NBA anyway.

I'm certainly less severe than others are with Lebron but as I said, I think this 1)Increases his chances of winning a title, which would get the "Yeah but he could never win a big game" off his back.
2) Eliminates any argument he has or had to make as the best player in basketball history. Again, it sounds silly to say that he's limiting himself to only be a hall of fame quality player, but everything he had said before this decision was that he wanted to be Roy Hobbes. Now he's saying I want to be Joe Morgan. There's nothing wrong with being Joe Morgan, 99.9999999% of players can't be that good. But he seemed to always want to be more.
3) Kobe Bryant in my opinion will never be in the Russell, Jordan, (Robertson) argument as best player in NBA history. But his goal is to be the best there ever was. Kobe may only end up being Johnny Bench, but he wants to be Roy Hobbes.

[CTA513]

Lebron is being sued by a lawyer who claims he's the superstar's father.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/07/08/lebron.james.lawsuit/index.html


Lebron should sue him for wasting his time.

[TeamSelig]

Miami is close to signing Tracy McGrady, per Chad Ford.

Interesting. I'm not sure about it really. He should get a ton of open looks... hopefully he is able to adopt a role player mentality. Low risk, high reward. I kinda like it, but there's a good chance that it won't pan out IMO.

[improbus]

Miami is close to signing Tracy McGrady, per Chad Ford.

Interesting. I'm not sure about it really. He should get a ton of open looks... hopefully he is able to adopt a role player mentality. Low risk, high reward. I kinda like it, but there's a good chance that it won't pan out IMO.

Let's hope that McGrady doesn't think he is a star anymore. He needs to understand he is still a role player. Somehow, I'm not sure that he will be able to do this.

[IslandRed]

Lebron should sue him for wasting his time.

Dude's just hoping to get paid to go away, I imagine.

[TeamSelig]

Lebron flips out on Cleveland fans...

YouTube - LEBRON JAMES FLIPS OUT ON CLEVELAND FANS!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7xlzLOZH5c&feature=player_embedded)

[Chip R]

For those who believe that this has negatively affected LeBron's popularity, his jersey has been the #1 selling jersey on NBA.com fo the past week.

[WMR]

For those who believe that this has negatively affected LeBron's popularity, his jersey has been the #1 selling jersey on NBA.com fo the past week.

BUT BUT BUT it's not HIS team!!!!! :angry:

:runawaycr

[reds44]

For those who believe that this has negatively affected LeBron's popularity, his jersey has been the #1 selling jersey on NBA.com fo the past week.
No you don't say? One of the most popular/best players in the NBA changes teams and he has the #1 selling jersey the week after? Stunning.

[Eric_the_Red]

No you don't say? One of the most popular/best players in the NBA changes teams and he has the #1 selling jersey the week after? Stunning.

But if "everyone" hates him, who is buying all those jerseys?

[bucksfan2]

But if "everyone" hates him, who is buying all those jerseys?

Florida is a pretty big state.

[Cedric]

Why wouldn't his jerseys be #1? I'm not been against or for LeBron during this circus.

Why wouldn't the most talked about player in the league get a huge jersey sales boost when switching teams? Nobody needs to buy a new Kobe, Wade, or Durant jersey.

[BuckeyeRed27]

But if "everyone" hates him, who is buying all those jerseys?

Well most people already have their Kobe, Chris Paul, and Kevin Garnett jerseys.

[RBA]

Simple, they are buying them to burn them. ;)

[improbus]

A few more thoughts on LeBron leaving.
1) I think Cavs fans reactions are more based on the deep-down knowledge that they lost their best ever chance at a title. You're probably not going to have too many more 60 win seasons down the pipeline. The LeBron pain is temporary, the loss of relevancy and interest will hurt more.
2) LeBron gave everything to the Cavs franchise for 7 years, and yet he is getting killed for the last few games where he seems to have played with less heart and effort. But, we don't know how much his injury played into it, how much Delonte's alleged issues played into it, and how much he knew about his own future. But, let me ask honest question. If LeBron shoots 38% (like Kobe did in the Lakers 4 finals win), would the Cavs have been within 20 points in any of those games. No player, no matter their perceived or real talent level, can carry a team in EVERY game. Perhaps LeBron knew deep down that he would NEVER win the Cavs.
3) Finally, I know that we have constantly been comparing LeBron to Bird/Jordan/Magic/ etc... and it is totally unfair. Bird, Jordan, and Magic all played on great TEAMS. They all played with other great players (every one played with at least on top 50 all-time player). Even Wade played with the Shaq during his last motivated/capable season.

[WMR]

Take away Pau and Shaq and Kobe has as many rings as LeBron does.

[improbus]

Take away Pau and Shaq and Kobe has as many rings as LeBron does.
Imagine if Jordan's best partner was Mo Williams, how would he have handled that?

[WMR]

Imagine if Jordan's best partner was Mo Williams, how would he have handled that?

I'll tell you what he would have done, demanded they get better players or...... he'd have gotten the hell out of Chicago.

Jordan had the perfect conflux of events surrounding his career which allowed him to create this basically insurmountable legacy.

Why should LeBron waste his entire career trying to be Jordan? There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Hoosier Red]

I'll tell you what he would have done, demanded they get better players or...... he'd have gotten the hell out of Chicago.

Jordan had the perfect conflux of events surrounding his career which allowed him to create this basically insurmountable legacy.

Why should LeBron waste his entire career trying to be Jordan? There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Actually it's interesting, Jordan as a GM/Player was about as good as Jordan as a GM/President has been. The difference was Jerry Krause was too arrogant to listen to him.

The problem was that Cleveland's owner did everything Lebron wanted. There was no parent in the relationship.

[improbus]

Actually it's interesting, Jordan as a GM/Player was about as good as Jordan as a GM/President has been. The difference was Jerry Krause was too arrogant to listen to him.

The problem was that Cleveland's owner did everything Lebron wanted. There was no parent in the relationship.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. As a teacher, I have slowly but surely learned that no matter how smart/mature you're kids may seem to be, you are the boss and you need to be the boss.

Krause may have been an egotistical GM, but he was the right man for the job.

[Revering4Blue]

Kids sell lemonade to back Cavs owner after fine.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-gilbertfine-lemonade

[TeamSelig]

Wasn't Jordan furious that the Bulls drafted Scottie Pippen? Oops. lol.

Rotoworld is reporting that Matt Barnes might sign w/ the Heat. Considering offers from Celtics, Mavs, and Lakers too, but that Miami is in the lead.

[WMR]

Did Jordan ever make actual specific player demands of Jerry Krause and/or the Bulls Organization? I don't remember that.

[TeamSelig]

Not sure. I was pretty young. Here's something I found:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=feuds/coaches/090528

Michael Jordan vs. Doug Collins
When you're Michael Jordan, you often get what you ask for. After two years of losing to the Pistons in the playoffs, who used their "Jordan Rules" defense, Jordan began to lobby Bulls GM Jerry Krause that a change might be needed. This was no surprise, considering that Jordan and Collins did not get along for years. They kept most of their disagreements private, but the most public came in the 1986-87 season when Jordan left a practice after bickering with Collins over the score of a team scrimmage. Collins would be replaced by his assistant Phil Jackson, who, in his first year as head coach, led the Bulls to the Eastern Conference finals, only to suffer the same fate as Collins -- losing to the Pistons. Years later, when Jordan was running the Wizards, he would hire Collins to be the team's head coach.

Michael Jordan vs. Jerry Krause
Although Bulls GM Jerry Krause eventually surrounded Michael Jordan with the coaches and players he needed to win six NBA championships, Jordan's demand for credit and what Jordan viewed as the disrespect of his not being included in personnel discussions helped perpetuate a mass exit of the team's stars after the 1998 season. The first major rift the two had was when Krause traded Jordan's best friend (to this day) Charles Oakley to the Knicks for Bill Cartwright. Jordan and Oakley reportedly found out about the trade while watching television in Las Vegas. Despite the titles the two won together, Jordan would continue to show his disdain for Krause throughout his years with the Bulls by publicly calling the overweight GM "Crumbs" because of the food stains that often appeared on Krause's clothes.


EDIT :

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=992758

^^^^ some pretty interesting Jordan quotes about his teammates.... its amazing how much MJ got away with

[texasdave]

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/205434-intriguing-spoelstra-connection-at-golden-state?eref=sihp

Never turn your back on Pat Riley.


Erik Spoelstra is currently the head coach of the Miami Heat, but there have been indications that president Pat Riley is interested in moving to the bench -- particularly after Miami signed LeBron James and Chris Bosh and re-signed Dwyane Wade recently.

[savafan]

I'm curious how Lebron's leaving is going to effect the economy in the state of Ohio, and what we'll have to do to make up for the loss.

[Yachtzee]

I'm curious how Lebron's leaving is going to effect the economy in the state of Ohio, and what we'll have to do to make up for the loss.

Not as much as sports media types would have you think. I don't think Columbus or Cincinnati or any other city other than Cleveland saw much of an economic boost from LeBron playing for the Cavs. I think the only businesses likely to be hurt are bars and restaurants near the Q. Even at that, it's not like the Cavs, Indians and Browns all moved with him. Cleveland will survive without him.

[Slyder]

Not as much as sports media types would have you think. I don't think Columbus or Cincinnati or any other city other than Cleveland saw much of an economic boost from LeBron playing for the Cavs. I think the only businesses likely to be hurt are bars and restaurants near the Q. Even at that, it's not like the Cavs, Indians and Browns all moved with him. Cleveland will survive without him.

I'm sure Tourism from the other places to Cleveland will take a hit too as they won't have James to market to the travelling public to watch. Also probably marginal in the big picture but when youre in the shape of some cities any little bit could be the difference between getting by on the skin of your teeth or falling into the red.

[Chip R]

ESPN's Ombudsman, Don Ohlmeyer weighs in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=ohlmeyer_don&id=5397113

[jredmo2]

ESPN's Ombudsman, Don Ohlmeyer weighs in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=ohlmeyer_don&id=5397113

Ohlmeyer is an idiot. Throughout his career, it's debatable whether he has openly embraced controversy, or repeatedly stumbled into controversy due to pure blinding idiocy.

[TeamSelig]

Miami re-signed Carlos Arroyo. Not the greatest shooter but was efficient last season. Good ball handler.

Just my wild guess at their rotation:

Arroyo 20 - Chalmers 20 - LBJ 8
Wade 36 - Miller 22
LBJ 30 - Miller 10 - Jones 8
Bosh 36 - Haslem 10 - Howard 2
Anthony 18 - Haslem 14 - Z 10 - Magloire/Pittman 2

I think they'll run with a James/Wade/Miller/Bosh/Haslem lineup against certain teams.

With Wade resting, they can use a Chalmers-Miller-LBJ-Bosh-Z (basically surround LBJ w/ shooters)... I think that will be pretty effective.

[WMR]

One of the things I like most about this Heat team is how flexible their lineup is going to be. You can go really really big, small and fast... whatever you need/want, really.

[WVRed]

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/samuelswitness.jpg

Cavs signed Samardo Samuels today.

[WMR]

hahaha

[Revering4Blue]

Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports wrote the following on his Twitter page Thursday afternoon, "Unless Cleveland raises multi-year offer that starts around $3.5M, Matt Barnes will sign a 1-year, $1.7M deal with Lakers, sources tell Y!"

Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68299/20100722/barnes_down_to_lakers_cavaliers/#ixzz0uSTxIpqY

[Revering4Blue]

Matt Barnes has agreed on a two-year, $3.6 million contract with the Lakers, according to Yahoo! Sports.

Barnes will make $1.7 million next season, with a $1.9 million player option for 2011-12. The Cavaliers had offered a guaranteed $7 million over two years with a team option for a third season, but Barnes preferred playing for a championship to a bigger payday.

[texasdave]

That Laker-Heat final is going to be amazing.

[reds44]

Blake/Fisher
Kobe/Brown/Barnes/Vujacic (assuming Brown re-signs)
Artest/Barnes/Odom/Walton
Gasol/Odom/Ratliff
Bynum/Gasol

There's no spot on the floor where the Heat will have a true matchup advantage on the Lakers (unless they play Wade/Lebron/Miller as 1/2/3, in which case they'd have an advantage at PG).

With the versatility of Barnes, and the potential of Ebanks, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers let Brown walk. I want him back, though.

I just don't see how the Heat will beat that team. Too much size, too much defense, too much depth.

[Roy Tucker]

I can't imagine what its going to be like when the Heat goes into Cleveland to play next season. Its like honoring Art Modell at the halftime of a home Browns game. The Cleveland crowd is going to be absolutely brutal. They're going to have to call in the National Guard.

[improbus]

The problem is going to be Gasol. He is a matchup nightmare. The Lakers can win when Kobe doesn't play well (see 2010 Finals), but they can't when Gasol is below average. Bosh/Haslem won't be able to handle him and that will be the difference.

[TeamSelig]

Blake/Fisher
Kobe/Brown/Barnes/Vujacic (assuming Brown re-signs)
Artest/Barnes/Odom/Walton
Gasol/Odom/Ratliff
Bynum/Gasol

There's no spot on the floor where the Heat will have a true matchup advantage on the Lakers (unless they play Wade/Lebron/Miller as 1/2/3, in which case they'd have an advantage at PG).

With the versatility of Barnes, and the potential of Ebanks, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers let Brown walk. I want him back, though.

I just don't see how the Heat will beat that team. Too much size, too much defense, too much depth.

lol No match up advantage? Lebron destroys Ron Artest. Artest is one of the better guys you can stick on Lebron, but he is too slow to do much.

Kobe is better than Wade, but Kobe can't keep up with Wade. Wade always tears up the Lakers. Considering that, I'd call that a wash (neither can stop each other)

Bosh/Gasol are pretty close as well. Bosh won the head to head stats last season (although I'll admit I haven't looked into it to see if both guarded each other, etc.)... Gasol is a better defender and passer but I'll give Bosh the scoring and rebounding nod. Both suck as #1 options.

As for Bosh/Haslem not handling Gasol, Gasol put up like 19.5 and 9 but only 41.2% FG vs Toronto. 16 and 8.5 on 44% FG vs Miami.

I'll give the LAL a slight advantage at PG duties, but it really depends if Wade or Lebron plays any point. Arroyo/Chalmers isn't far from Blake/Fisher. I think you could argue that its about a wash since Fishers career is basically over.

The only clear advantage is Bynum at center over the Miami scrubs. But, honestly, do you think Bynum is capable of playing an entire year even? If Gasol slides to the 5, he's easily better than the scrubs, but Bosh is >>>> Odom.

[Scrap Irony]

Wow.

I've seen fans overvalue their players, but this might take the cake.

An unbiased poster armed only with BasketballReference.com and an open mind might say:

Wade = Bryant
(You could argue Wade> Kobe, as Wade almost always destroys the Lakers and Bryant is hit or miss. The match-up of the two has historically favored Wade and figures to continue to do so. But, hey, let's call it even, as Bryant might step up in this hypothetical like he didn't against the C's.)

James >>> Artest
This is the biggest advantage in the game, as James should double Artest's best output in all facets of the game. All of them. He can also play off Artest in the help position, making James, the best defender on the court, the free man Miami might double Bryant with.

Bosh = Gasol
Gasol's D is overrated and Bosh in perennially underrated. Just because the guy played in Toronto doesn't mean he's junk. Bosh dominates Gasol offensively, trumping the big European by six PPG. Everything else is similar and Bosh is four years younger. Gasol passes better, especially out of the double team.

Fisher, etc. = Chalmers, etc.
They're about even as even can be and Fisher is more than a decade older. Arroyo and Blake even out as well, especially as back-ups. Only Chalmers has upside enough to improve.

Bynum > Haslem, etc.
Bynum is better, but only just. Rebounds are even, Bynum's PPG are five points better. But I'd argue Haslem's D (especially against Gasol, who he's managed quite well over their respective careers) evens that out. Bynum gets the edge, as he's younger and trending up, though his brittle nature negates much of that.

[improbus]

Don't undersell Gasol's rebounding. There isn't a better player in the league at getting offensive boards/putbacks. Miami will have no one to keep him off the boards.

The problem the Lakers will have is when the Heat go small. Wade/James could be the first backcourt to average 2 steals/2 blocks a game and stifle the Lakers guards and simply run the slower, less athletic Lakers off the floor. Miami could really be the new Showtime team.

[TeamSelig]

Miami will murder opposing teams in rebounds IMO. Lebron is a great rebounder. Miller and Wade are both good at grabbing boards. Bosh is amazing. Haslem is pretty good. I read somewhere (although I can't find it ATM) that Haslem and Anthony both statistically out rebound their match up by a large margin. I want to say Z does as well. Can't seem to find it right now.

[Scrap Irony]

Miami has three premier rebounders per postion: James (T-3), Wade (6), Bosh (4), not to mention Haslem (top 10 PF in limited minutes). Lakers have three in the Top 10 (Bryant and Gasol at third per position and Odom at 9th), but only two premier rebounders.

The Heat are better statistically at rebounding by a decent margin.

Miami's starting five (assuming Chalmers, Wade, James, Bosh, and Haslem) are better rebounders per minute played and percentage of rebounds than the LA starting five (Fisher, Bryant, Artest, Gasol, and Bynum) by a significant margin.

[Revering4Blue]

Source: Bulls prepared to add McGrady


McGrady, 31, would be Chicago's sixth acquisition this offseason, joining Carlos Boozer, Kyle Korver, Ronnie Brewer, C.J. Watson and Kurt Thomas.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5408617&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

It seems unwise to hand the East title over to the Heat just yet.

[Slyder]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=5408617&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

It seems unwise to hand the East title over to the Heat just yet.

Seems like since they didnt get LeBron, Wade, or Bosh Chi-town is going with the other strategy, bringing in a bunch of lower pay guys and have incredible depth rather than superstars and a bunch of scrubs like Miami.

That could be a HUGE acquisition if McGrady can stay healthy.

[Revering4Blue]

Seems like since they didnt get LeBron, Wade, or Bosh Chi-town is going with the other strategy, bringing in a bunch of lower pay guys and have incredible depth rather than superstars and a bunch of scrubs like Miami.

That could be a HUGE acquisition if McGrady can stay healthy.

True, but Boozer is every bit of an impact acquisition as Bosh. He provides an inside force the bulls haven't had since Artis Gilmore.

[TeamSelig]

I'm kinda interested to see how good the Bulls will be. On paper, it looks good. As for the TMac signing, I'm not sure how it makes the Bulls any better. Might help ticket sales but thats as far as it goes. He was terrible last year. 9.4 PPG 38.9% FG 24.2% 3PT... all in an offensive friendly tempo. The Bulls need some shooters though... hopefully his legs are fresh enough to shoot a better percentage.

PG Rose - Watson
SG Tmac - Brewer - Korver
SF Deng - Johnson
PF Boozer - Gibson
C Noah - Thomas

Rose-Brewer-Deng-Gibson-Noah is a deadly defensive team. With their new defensive coach, they might be one of the top few defensive teams in the league. It will be interesting to see how Boozer plays. Utah was always a pretty good defensive team despite Boozer being a terrible defender. Playing next to Noah should help mask his lack of any defensive awareness.

What's crazy is that Miami had the #2 defense (OpPPG and OpFG%) last season. It's almost the same team this year. Lebron in for QRich and Bosh in for Beasley.

[MrMcConnell]

Blake/Fisher
Kobe/Brown/Barnes/Vujacic (assuming Brown re-signs)
Artest/Barnes/Odom/Walton
Gasol/Odom/Ratliff
Bynum/Gasol

There's no spot on the floor where the Heat will have a true matchup advantage on the Lakers (unless they play Wade/Lebron/Miller as 1/2/3, in which case they'd have an advantage at PG).

With the versatility of Barnes, and the potential of Ebanks, I wouldn't be surprised if the Lakers let Brown walk. I want him back, though.

I just don't see how the Heat will beat that team. Too much size, too much defense, too much depth.

Both the Lakers and Celtics looked very old and average in the Finals this year (actually throughout the entire year.) Artest isn't the defender he once was and even Kobe isn't the player he once was (even though he's arguably one of, if not THE best player in the league). The Lakers just aren't that great.

[reds44]

Both the Lakers and Celtics looked very old and average in the Finals this year (actually throughout the entire year.) Artest isn't the defender he once was and even Kobe isn't the player he once was (even though he's arguably one of, if not THE best player in the league). The Lakers just aren't that great.
Yep, those back to back Champions "just aren't that great."

[Orenda]

I'm curious how Lebron's leaving is going to effect the economy in the state of Ohio, and what we'll have to do to make up for the loss.

Here is an interesting take...http://reason.tv/video/show/dont-blame-lebron-florida-has

[Yachtzee]

Here is an interesting take...http://reason.tv/video/show/dont-blame-lebron-florida-has

While there are some valid points, they make some of the same false assumptions about Cleveland that many others make. Most NE Ohioans never looked at LeBron as an economic savior, at least not the ones with half a brain. Sure they felt he had the opportunity to be a savior in the sporting sense by bringing in a championship, but we live close enough to Detroit to know that championships don't mean jobs.

Drew Carey was in town with these guys talking to city counsel not too long ago. I agree with the argument that Cleveland should look at ways to lower taxes and improve the business climate, some of the suggestions were plain stupid. Let's get rid of zoning laws so that folks can put a strip club or a toxic waste dump in residential neighborhoods (nothing against strip clubs or waste dumps, but they have proper places for those away from homes and schools). And I believe Cleveland was one of the first areas to adopt school vouchers. They neglect to mention that most of Cleveland's population loss has been to the suburbs and surrounding counties where the taxes are lower. They also avoid mentioning the lower cost of living, with lower fuel costs and utility rates. Much of Cleveland's job loss has been in old-school manufacturing because companies find it cheaper to build new plants down south rather than refit and clean up old plants up here. We get left with with footing the bill for cleaning up their messes.

[flyer85]

The odds seem very high his story isn't going to end well. He is surrounded by people who simply wish to indulge their every whim.

http://www.sbnation.com/2010/7/28/1592251/lebron-james-life-is-a-hip-hop#storyjump

[WVRed]

Good to see Cleveland fans still being, well, Cleveland fans...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5418788


CLEVELAND -- A fan wearing a Miami Heat jersey of LeBron James drew the ire of the crowd at a Cleveland Indians game and was escorted out of the ballpark.

Fans in the left-field bleachers chanted obscenities and pointed at the man Wednesday night during the sixth inning of the game between the Indians and New York Yankees.

Hundreds of fans joined in before security led the man out of Progressive Field.

As he left, some fans followed him toward the gate with more derisive chants. Various media reports indicated he was with a female companion, and that fans also threw debris at them.

The man was shown showing off his No. 6 jersey to the crowd as he walked down the steps.

James' recent departure from the Cleveland Cavaliers to the Heat caused a lot of anger in the city.

Many fans were near the left-field foul pole in hopes of catching the 600th home run ball by Alex Rodriguez.

[TeamSelig]

Miami signs Eddie House to a 2 year deal (Vet Min). Wow.


Arroyo - Chalmers - Lebron
Wade - House - Miller
Lebron - Miller - Jones
Bosh - Haslem - Howard
Anthony - Haslem- Z

Got some shooters...

3PT%

House - career .390 (has had seasons .444 and .429 etc.)
Miller - career .405 (last season .501)
Jones - career .395 (last season .411)
Chalmers - career .346

League average is about .360 I think. They aren't the GREATEST 3PT shooters ever, but they will be getting a ton of wide open shots.

[reds44]

Good to see Cleveland fans still being, well, Cleveland fans...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5418788
That guy was just asking for trouble. Hard to feel bad for him.

[bucksfan2]

That guy was just asking for trouble. Hard to feel bad for him.

Yea my thoughts exactly. I realize that what you wear shouldn't be an issue when going to a professional event, but really dude? You got to be dumber than a box of rocks!

[CTA513]

Good to see Cleveland fans still being, well, Cleveland fans...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5418788


The Indians should have upgraded his seats for being treated like that.

:D

[Yachtzee]

That guy was just asking for trouble. Hard to feel bad for him.

His actions on the way out and the fact that he was escorted out instead of being moved indicate he was probably egging the crowd on to get a rise out of them. Just another tool who learned his people skills from the WWE.

[Roy Tucker]

Good to see Cleveland fans still being, well, Cleveland fans...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5418788

Like I said, I can't imagine what its going to be like when the Heat comes to Cleveland to play next season.

[WMR]

Yeah, let's wear a LBJ Heat jersey to a Cleveland sporting event. Brilliant.

Haha, can't wait to see some idiot try this at a Browns game. He won't make it out alive.

[Yachtzee]

Here's a photo of the event.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38460016/displaymode/1168/rstry/38459999/rpage/1/

[11larkin11]

Yeah, let's wear a LBJ Heat jersey to a Cleveland sporting event. Brilliant.

Haha, can't wait to see some idiot try this at a Browns game. He won't make it out alive.

And I will be right there in the Dawg Pound contributing to him not making it out alive!

[TeamSelig]

Wearing a former players new jersey does not warrant the waste of a beer, especially an expensive one. Cleveland fans are in the wrong.

[reds44]

Here's a photo of the event.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/38460016/displaymode/1168/rstry/38459999/rpage/1/
Kind of speaks for itself.

[Donder]

I just caught an interview with this guy on ESPNews. He's obviously loving the attention. Came off as a whiner, he didn't look good at all. They also showed video where his lady friend about got into an altercation on their way out. They looked real classy.

[Cedric]

I just caught an interview with this guy on ESPNews. He's obviously loving the attention. Came off as a whiner, he didn't look good at all. They also showed video where his lady friend about got into an altercation on their way out. They looked real classy.

I predicted before seeing a picture that he would look JUST like he did. Stereotypes can be right.

[Donder]

YouTube - In his own words: Fan who wore LeBron Heat jersey to Indians game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpnfFwSFe-k)

[Slyder]

YouTube - In his own words: Fan who wore LeBron Heat jersey to Indians game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpnfFwSFe-k)

This dude is a dumbass. Any coverage he gets beyond this is beyond stupid. What did he think was going to happen?

Lets lay out some similarities.

Walking into the Black Hole in Oakland wearing a KC Cheifs Marcus Allen jersey.

Walking into Morgantown wearing a Rich Rodriguez mask.

Walking into SF Giants stadium wearing Dodger Blue.

Dressing like Steve Bartman in Wrigley.

He should NOT get his money back and he should have more common sense than to wear LeBron gear to an Indians game while its still fresh in peoples minds. Im just shocked that Clevelanders had the self control to not knock the guy out at some point in the evening.

[cincrazy]

Good to see Cleveland continue to respond with maturity in regards to the situation.

[Yachtzee]

Good to see Cleveland continue to respond with maturity in regards to the situation.

Is Cleveland somehow exceptional in this regard? I've been to plenty of Brown' games in full Bengals gear and never had an issue. Of course I'm always respectful of the people around me and always cheer my team on in a civil manner. However, I've seen other go to games and start antagonizing everybody. Those are the ones who catch hell. I've seen the same in Cincinnati and I've seen worse at Cubs and Steelers games. And none of that compares to what we've seen from Philly fans or NY Jets fans. At least no one intentionally vomited on him or forced his girl to run a guantlet of drunks demanding she flash her lady parts. Considering security was called by the people around him, I stand by my belief that he was the primary troublemaker trying to stir things up.

[cincrazy]

Is Cleveland somehow exceptional in this regard? I've been to plenty of Brown' games in full Bengals gear and never had an issue. Of course I'm always respectful of the people around me and always cheer my team on in a civil manner. However, I've seen other go to games and start antagonizing everybody. Those are the ones who catch hell. I've seen the same in Cincinnati and I've seen worse at Cubs and Steelers games. And none of that compares to what we've seen from Philly fans or NY Jets fans. At least no one intentionally vomited on him or forced his girl to run a guantlet of drunks demanding she flash her lady parts. Considering security was called by the people around him, I stand by my belief that he was the primary troublemaker trying to stir things up.

It's not just Cleveland fans, clearly. I just don't see how getting all fussy about someone wearing a piece of clothing is a good idea. Lebron is in Miami, that's the way it is, let's move on.

Granted, if Votto goes to the Yankees in a few years and someone sits in the SunDeck wearing a Votto Yankees jersey, I'm probably going to hammer him, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it :).

[improbus]

By all accounts, Utah is the most vile group of fans in the NBA, so don't associate fan behavior with a city.

BTW, I believe that this guy is the ultimate tool.

[improbus]

I know LeBron has taken quite a hit in the media and with fans, but here are some undeniable positives from this.
1) The league has a true "villain/evil empire" now. The Lakers are the usual recipient of most peoples unwarranted anger, but the Heat now have stolen that mantle.
2) The league became instantly more interesting. How are other teams going to react to this? Will it work? How will LeBron and Wade play together? Will LeBron finally become Magic 2.0?
3) We now have at least 10-15 new "must see" games. Heat/Celtics, Heat/Lakers, Heat/Magic, Heat/Cavs, etc... It is going to be awesome. I couldn't be more excited for the NBA to start.

[Slyder]

I know LeBron has taken quite a hit in the media and with fans, but here are some undeniable positives from this.
1) The league has a true "villain/evil empire" now. The Lakers are the usual recipient of most peoples unwarranted anger, but the Heat now have stolen that mantle.
2) The league became instantly more interesting. How are other teams going to react to this? Will it work? How will LeBron and Wade play together? Will LeBron finally become Magic 2.0?
3) We now have at least 10-15 new "must see" games. Heat/Celtics, Heat/Lakers, Heat/Magic, Heat/Cavs, etc... It is going to be awesome. I couldn't be more excited for the NBA to start.

I wonder what the fans of teams like Atlanta, Milwaukee, Minnesota, etc think of this consolidation of "star power" with all these Triumverants. Because you know if you're not a major market with serious drawing power you have no chance at getting your own trio unless you're incredibly lucky in the draft.

If the Rumors are true youll have:
Miami Thrice
LA Kobe/Pau/whoever consist of a trio amongst themselves :D.
Knicks: Amare, CP III, Melo
Boston: The Aging Wonders

Im probably leaving out a bunch. But besides the Bulls drafting theirs I dont see many others.
IMO NBA is starting to look more and more like Baseball where there going to be a handful of teams that are legitimate contenders then everyone else will be fighting for the scraps of attention.

[TeamSelig]

Slyder,

The NBA has been like this for years. Pretty much the same teams are in the running for the championship every season.

[Chip R]

I know LeBron has taken quite a hit in the media and with fans, but here are some undeniable positives from this.
1) The league has a true "villain/evil empire" now. The Lakers are the usual recipient of most peoples unwarranted anger, but the Heat now have stolen that mantle.
2) The league became instantly more interesting. How are other teams going to react to this? Will it work? How will LeBron and Wade play together? Will LeBron finally become Magic 2.0?
3) We now have at least 10-15 new "must see" games. Heat/Celtics, Heat/Lakers, Heat/Magic, Heat/Cavs, etc... It is going to be awesome. I couldn't be more excited for the NBA to start.


You'll get your wish. The first game the Heat will play will be in Boston.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5433607 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5433607)

And LeBron thanked Akron in a newspaper ad but omitted Cleveland.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5433205 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5433205)

[texasdave]

I wonder what the fans of teams like Atlanta, Milwaukee, Minnesota, etc think of this consolidation of "star power" with all these Triumverants. Because you know if you're not a major market with serious drawing power you have no chance at getting your own trio unless you're incredibly lucky in the draft.

If the Rumors are true youll have:
Miami Thrice
LA Kobe/Pau/whoever consist of a trio amongst themselves :D.
Knicks: Amare, CP III, Melo
Boston: The Aging Wonders

Im probably leaving out a bunch. But besides the Bulls drafting theirs I dont see many others.
IMO NBA is starting to look more and more like Baseball where there going to be a handful of teams that are legitimate contenders then everyone else will be fighting for the scraps of attention.

Maybe they can just play 3-on-3 half court games. Roster sizes can be reduced to 6. The stars and team owners will split the difference on the money saved. It's a win/win.

[Eric_the_Red]

Maybe they can just play 3-on-3 half court games. Roster sizes can be reduced to 6. The stars and team owners will split the difference on the money saved. It's a win/win.

BOOM-shackalacka!

http://media.nerdblerp.com/uploaded/2010/01/32X_NBA_Jam_Tournament_Edition_S4.PNG

[RBA]

As predicted: Heat @ Lakers December 25, 2010

And Shaq is close to sign a deal with Celtics.

[Slyder]

As predicted: Heat @ Lakers December 25, 2010

And Shaq is close to sign a deal with Celtics.

The Celtics will certainly be up there as oldest team in the NBA next year even with Rondo and Big Baby.

I like the fit though of Shaq wearing the green after being on the other side of the rivalry for so long.

[Razor Shines]

Since this has kind of turned into an nba thread. The pacers picked up collison and posey, but had to trade troy Murphy. It was a 4 team deal, but I'm on my phone, so I don't really want to go through it all. I'm pretty happy, love collison, don't like giving up Murph, but I think this was a good deal.

[TeamSelig]

Amazing trade for the Pacers.

Like you said, we picked up Collison and Posey for Troy Murphy.

New Orleans
In: Trevor Ariza
Out: Darren Collison, James Posey

Houston
In: Courtney Lee
Out: Trevor Ariza

New Jersey
In: Troy Murphy
Out: Courtney Lee

I am hoping we can spin Ford and/or Dunleavy for a PF now. But, I have a feeling we will stand pat and give McRoberts/Hansborough significant minutes. Hopefully Hibbert can stay out of foul trouble and Foster can stay healthy, otherwise we will be hurting for bigs.

[Razor Shines]

Collison is the best PG the Pacers have had since Mark Jackson. I think you're right we do need another big man. I'm fine with Hansborough getting significant minutes, but I don't think McRoberts is going to be a quality NBA guy. Maybe they are hoping Sol Jones turns into something, but I don't know. They have offered to buy out TJ Ford but he refused, maybe he's going to be ok being Collison's back up.

I'm pretty pumped that we'll have a quality PG that can run the show and is an excellent shooter as well.

[texasdave]

What was New Orleans thinking. I would have thought Collison would bring back more than that.

[bshall2105]

I have not been this happy as a Pacer fan in a long time. We may be able to sneak into the playoffs, but then get handled by the Heat in the first round.

[BuckeyeRed27]

What was New Orleans thinking. I would have thought Collison would bring back more than that.

Agreed. Moving Collison was probably a good idea to try and improve the team for Paul, but I would think you could get another piece besides Ariza.

[Revering4Blue]

As far as another Pacer big man, don't count this guy out.


The Pacers want to keep second-round draft pick Magnum Rolle, but they'll need to clear a roster spot now that they've reached the maximum 15 guaranteed deals.

"He's a big part of what we're trying to do here," team president Larry Bird said. "It's a numbers game. We'll see what happens the next couple months ... He's very active, shoots the ball from 15, 17 feet as well as anyone on our team." Indy is trying to dump T.J. Ford's contract, which could eventually be Rolle's ticket to ride.
Source: IndyStar.com

[Revering4Blue]

Nice trade analysis.

http://www.forecaster.ca/thestar/basketball/tradelog-viewtrade.cgi?none&x_id=1850

[ThornWithin81]

BOOM-shackalacka!

http://media.nerdblerp.com/uploaded/2010/01/32X_NBA_Jam_Tournament_Edition_S4.PNG

I miss this game so much.

[Eric_the_Red]

I miss this game so much.

It's coming back soon!

[Razor Shines]

YouTube - EA Sports NBA Jam (Wii) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEe98P0JK6U)

[TeamSelig]

Collison is the best PG the Pacers have had since Mark Jackson. I think you're right we do need another big man. I'm fine with Hansborough getting significant minutes, but I don't think McRoberts is going to be a quality NBA guy. Maybe they are hoping Sol Jones turns into something, but I don't know. They have offered to buy out TJ Ford but he refused, maybe he's going to be ok being Collison's back up.

I'm pretty pumped that we'll have a quality PG that can run the show and is an excellent shooter as well.

I don't think Ford will be the back up though. Price out played him towards the end of the season, I think he'll do it again. Also, Stephenson looked good in the summer league at point... I think they'll try to get him a few minutes here and there for development purposes.

[Roy Tucker]

Barkley comments on LeBron...

http://presscoverage.us/media/why-we-love-charles-barkley-i-dont-run-im-on-tv-every-week-im-easy-to-find/

[Slyder]

I love Charles Barkley straight forwardness.

[improbus]

I love Charles Barkley straight forwardness. I love Charles as well but he is always looking for ways to keep himself relevant. This seems like a nice way to do that. Charles understands that the younger NBA audience doesn't know/remember him as a player, so he needs to keep his name out there as much as possible.

[bshall2105]

I don't think Ford will be the back up though. Price out played him towards the end of the season, I think he'll do it again. Also, Stephenson looked good in the summer league at point... I think they'll try to get him a few minutes here and there for development purposes.

Price did have knee surgery this summer. He may not be fully healthy by the time the season starts. Stephenson should get minutes at both the 1 and the 2, he is extremely talented and looked great this summer.

[Revering4Blue]

Top 10 signs that the Heat are being overhyped

...

10) The best regular season team in history really should do better than Carlos Arroyo and Mario Chalmers at the point

9) It's hard to see how Erik Spoelstra will keep them motivated, playing defense, or sacrificing numbers

8) When your best shot blockers are your small forward and shooting guard, you might not do too well against teams with talented bigs

7) In two of the last four years, Dwayne Wade played 51 games, and in general, guys do not get less injury-prone as they get older

6) One suspects that LeBron James might be just a little bit bored of having the best regular-season record

5) In the last four years, Chris Bosh missed 45 games

4) One suspects that their opponents will be just a wee bit up for their games

3) The best regular season team in history really should do better than Joel Anthony, Jamaal Magloire and Dexter Pittman at center

Uh, what about "Z"?

2) As good as Mike Miller might be, and as many open looks as he's going to get, it's not as if he's ever been on a team that's won a damn thing

1) Even if they are all that and a bag of chips, they'll still coast for the last 2-3 months, since the winning playoff teams now all take off for the last 2-3 months

http://network.yardbarker.com/mlb/article_external/Top_10_MLB_Managers_that_wont_be_back_in_2011/3042273

[Slyder]

They wont approach the Bulls 72 wins.

[TeamSelig]

http://network.yardbarker.com/mlb/article_external/Top_10_MLB_Managers_that_wont_be_back_in_2011/3042273

10) The best regular season team in history really should do better than Carlos Arroyo and Mario Chalmers at the point

- Arroyo/Chalmers > Fisher/Farmar. The Lakers managed.

9) It's hard to see how Erik Spoelstra will keep them motivated, playing defense, or sacrificing numbers

- Spoelstra is actually a GREAT defensive coach.

8) When your best shot blockers are your small forward and shooting guard, you might not do too well against teams with talented bigs

- Haslem and Anthony both play solid D.

7) In two of the last four years, Dwayne Wade played 51 games, and in general, guys do not get less injury-prone as they get older

- Wade won't have as much pressure on him to make things happen on the court.

6) One suspects that LeBron James might be just a little bit bored of having the best regular-season record

- ?

5) In the last four years, Chris Bosh missed 45 games

- lol.

4) One suspects that their opponents will be just a wee bit up for their games

- Probably. But this happens to just about every playoff team.

3) The best regular season team in history really should do better than Joel Anthony, Jamaal Magloire and Dexter Pittman at center

- +Z. When you have superstars at the other positions, you don't need all stars at the other positions. See Kendrick Perkins.

2) As good as Mike Miller might be, and as many open looks as he's going to get, it's not as if he's ever been on a team that's won a damn thing

- But has he ever been a 6th man / 4th option?

1) Even if they are all that and a bag of chips, they'll still coast for the last 2-3 months, since the winning playoff teams now all take off for the last 2-3 months

- Good point.

[Razor Shines]

That list is a bit of a stretch, IMO. The Bulls had Luc Longley and James Edwards at center. Just for starters.

[improbus]

The 72 wins thing is entirely based on motivation. If LeBron/Wade want to take out their years of frustration against the league for 82 games, they can do it. I dont see that happening in today's NBA, but I could be wrong.

The thing I'm most excited about is that this is the first "historically good" NBA team since the Shaq/Kobe Lakers. The Celtics/Spurs/Lakers (Kobe/Gasol) have been very good teams, but not all-timers. But, the Heat have a chance to be just that. Every Heat game will be an event, which is cool.

[MWM]

Put me in the camp that thinks the Heat are going to breeze through the NBA over the next few years. I don't think 72 wins is out of the question at all.

[Razor Shines]

Put me in the camp that thinks the Heat are going to breeze through the NBA over the next few years. I don't think 72 wins is out of the question at all.

Uhhh, did you not see that the Pacers just picked up Darren Collison?

[Revering4Blue]

Uhhh, did you not see that the Pacers just picked up Darren Collison?

They may not be done.


Pacers management has told Danny Granger to expect another trade before the regular season, and he assumes they will try to acquire a big man.

"If we see a deal we like, we're going to make it and we're not going to wait," said Pacers president Larry Bird, after they traded for Darren Collison last Wednesday. For what it's worth, Granger seems eager to get some frontcourt help -- "I can play (power forward) but I'm not a true (power forward). So we're definitely going to have to add another big, and I think that will be our main focus."

Source: Fanhouse.com

[TeamSelig]

Hopefully we don't over pay to fill a need. It's not like we have a chance at winning a championship anyway. I think I'd be OK with allowing Hansborough some time to develop. If he's healthy that is. We could always sign Al Horford, Carl Landry, etc. in the off season.

I think I would prefer we pick up a stop gap big for now and see how that goes. Then look to acquire a big via draft or FA.... instead of trading for someone with a huge contract or sending away draft picks.

[Boston Red]

Born ready....for prison?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/08/15/2010-08-15_lance_stephenson_indiana_pacers_nba_player_arre sted_for_pushing_his_girlfriend_d.html

[Homer Bailey]

YouTube - LeBron "Rise" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdtejCR413c)


And here we go...

[Sea Ray]

Born ready....for prison?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2010/08/15/2010-08-15_lance_stephenson_indiana_pacers_nba_player_arre sted_for_pushing_his_girlfriend_d.html

My guess is she'll eventually say she caused him to get mad and it's all her fault resulting in her refusing to testify

[WMR]

YouTube - LeBron "Rise" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdtejCR413c)


And here we go...

Beautiful.

Can't wait till LBJ and co. start winning rings.....

http://www.esportsea.com/global/media_preview.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.co m%2Fi%2F000%2F041%2F955%2Foriginal%2FHaters_Gon_Ha te.jpg

[Slyder]

I still say its going to be funny when Chicago or someone beats em in the playoffs and LeBron and Wade turn into Shaq v Kobe. They have no bench!

[Razor Shines]

I still say its going to be funny when Chicago or someone beats em in the playoffs and LeBron and Wade turn into Shaq v Kobe. They have no bench!

YouTube - Seinfeld "Not Bloody Likely" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu5ZjfQje9o)

They are going to roll to the finals. Lakers V. Heat will be fun to watch. I'm actually pretty excited to see how many games they can win together.

Liked that video too, I've never been much of a Lebron fan, but I like him more now than when he was on the Cavs.

[Revering4Blue]

We have a new low: Ohio radio station hires witch doctor to curse LeBron:rolleyes:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/26/we-have-a-new-low-ohio-radio-station-hires-witch-doctor-to-curse-lebron/?related=1

[Brutus]

Mike Miller being out doesn't help, and no question it will take time for this unit to mesh with Wade missing the entire preseason, but man they are getting R-O-L-L-E-D by the Celtics tonight.

[Razor Shines]

Lebron taking over now.

[Brutus]

Two things definitely stood out tonight:

1) the lack of post play by Miami, and

2) too much of a stand-still jump shooting team sans LeBron in key stretches and Wade

If Miami wants to do anything in the playoffs, they are going to have to be more aggressive in attacking the basket. Mike Miller will provide another shooter to stretch a defense, and I believe LeBron & Wade will have a lot of success driving & dishing to the wings, but nonetheless they were too guardable tonight.

[Homer Bailey]

Heat are going to dominate this regular season, but I don't see them beating Boston in a 7 game series.

Wade and Bosh just had the worst games of their lives and they were down by 3 with a minute left on the road at Boston. This team is going to be very, very good. Anybody saying otherwise is just in denial.

[Razor Shines]

Heat are going to dominate this regular season, but I don't see them beating Boston in a 7 game series.

Wade and Bosh just had the worst games of their lives and they were down by 3 with a minute left on the road at Boston. This team is going to be very, very good. Anybody saying otherwise is just in denial.

I agree with your second statement and because of that I have to disagree with your first. I think if that game was played in 2 or 3 months the Heat beat the Celtics fairly easily, with or without Miller.

[Brutus]

Heat are going to dominate this regular season, but I don't see them beating Boston in a 7 game series.

Wade and Bosh just had the worst games of their lives and they were down by 3 with a minute left on the road at Boston. This team is going to be very, very good. Anybody saying otherwise is just in denial.

They'll win 65 games. But they're going to struggle in the postseason. Is that very, very good?

Because that's pretty much Cleveland the last few years in a nutshell. They dominated the regular season, and where did it get them in May?

I think if anything, this game is a microcosm of all the fair criticisms that exist about this club: depth, interior play, play-makers outside of the big three, etc.

I'm not a LeBron hater, nor am I going to act like this team will only win 45 games. But I saw a game that absolutely illustrated some really big issues with that club. Yeah they stayed in the game, so what? In the NBA, most games do tend to stay competitive. When you have LeBron James, you're naturally going to stay in most every game.

Game 1 is nothing like the finished product. But I think anyone that didn't see some real issues with that club (on a championship-caliber level) is focusing too much on the names on the jerseys of three players.

[TeamSelig]

So how about Lebron being a sidekick? I know it was just one game, but it looks like quite a few people were wrong.

Miami could use a reliable low post scorer and they really need to move the ball around better. They will need some team chemistry, but I don't think its a bad loss for them. Celtics have had the same nucleus for quite a few years, they're a veteran team, one of the better teams in the league, and the game was played in Boston. Hopefully this humbles Miami to the point where they really tighten up their game.

[flyer85]

Miami doesn't have the people to space the floor on offense (its why he and Wade were a poor fit to play together) and lack guys willing to do the dirty work at both ends of the floor. Both Lebron and Wade are slashers who need lanes to drive into to, to create those lanes you need shooters who can make the defenders make a choice between taking away the the drive or leaving open a good shooter.

IMO they would have been better off with Boozer (a great back to the basket player) instead of Bosh.

[Cedric]

So how about Lebron being a sidekick? I know it was just one game, but it looks like quite a few people were wrong.

Miami could use a reliable low post scorer and they really need to move the ball around better. They will need some team chemistry, but I don't think its a bad loss for them. Celtics have had the same nucleus for quite a few years, they're a veteran team, one of the better teams in the league, and the game was played in Boston. Hopefully this humbles Miami to the point where they really tighten up their game.

Jumping the gun a bit? Wade hasn't played basketball for like a month really. Of course he isn't going to be able to play much or play well. I think people were saying if LeBron wins it will be because Wade takes over in the playoffs. One regular season game with a rusty/injured Wade doesn't show anything.

[Homer Bailey]

They'll win 65 games. But they're going to struggle in the postseason. Is that very, very good?

Because that's pretty much Cleveland the last few years in a nutshell. They dominated the regular season, and where did it get them in May?

Cleveland had Mo Williams taking big shots when LBJ was double-teamed. Wade, Bosh, and Mike Miller will be taking those shots this year. It's a very different team than that Cleveland team.


I think if anything, this game is a microcosm of all the fair criticisms that exist about this club: depth, interior play, play-makers outside of the big three, etc.

I agree. It will be interesting what happens when Mike Miller comes back. He's exactly the type of player this team needs (or appears to need after one game). Going into the year, I thought the Lakers would be the worst matchup for them, but it's hard to think that after watching last night. Garnett completely took Bosh out of the game, and Shaq/Perkins/Jermaine are going to kill the Heat at the 5 spot.

I was surprised the Heat didn't try to make it more up tempo last night considering the Celtics age, and amazing half-court D, but again, it was just one game, and their very first together.


I'm not a LeBron hater, nor am I going to act like this team will only win 45 games. But I saw a game that absolutely illustrated some really big issues with that club. Yeah they stayed in the game, so what? In the NBA, most games do tend to stay competitive. When you have LeBron James, you're naturally going to stay in most every game.

I honestly don't think the Heat could have played worst, at least not in that first half. And they were trailing by 3 with a minute to play. Lebron had 8 turnovers, Wade had 6.... and they almost won! Bosh was probably the worst player on the floor last night as well.

I think the Heat are going to be somewhat similar to our Reds. The average to mediocre teams have NO SHOT against this team. However, these guys may struggle a bit with the Lakers/Celtics, and maybe even the Spurs/Thunder/Magic, but there's just no way teams like Golden State, Sacramento, Chicago, etc. can stay on the floor with them. Celtics are the most defensively sound team in the NBA, and they couldn't stay in front of them once they got hot. That's my opinion.


Game 1 is nothing like the finished product. But I think anyone that didn't see some real issues with that club (on a championship-caliber level) is focusing too much on the names on the jerseys of three players.


I don't expect them to win the title this year. The Lakers matchup too well with them. However, if someone else somehow comes out of the West, they may have a shot.

[Todd Gack]

Heat are going to dominate this regular season, but I don't see them beating Boston in a 7 game series.

Wade and Bosh just had the worst games of their lives and they were down by 3 with a minute left on the road at Boston. This team is going to be very, very good. Anybody saying otherwise is just in denial.

Exactly. SO why should we believe they're going to have a tough time with Boston in a 7 game series? Your post seems to contradict itself. Boston may play them tough in a 7 game series, but it's October 26th.

[Todd Gack]

Miami doesn't have the people to space the floor on offense (its why he and Wade were a poor fit to play together) and lack guys willing to do the dirty work at both ends of the floor. Both Lebron and Wade are slashers who need lanes to drive into to, to create those lanes you need shooters who can make the defenders make a choice between taking away the the drive or leaving open a good shooter.

IMO they would have been better off with Boozer (a great back to the basket player) instead of Bosh.


Udonis Haslem was one of the one important signings in the NBA this offseason. Everyone severely underestimates him because he DOES do the dirty work for the heat.

[Homer Bailey]

Exactly. SO why should we believe they're going to have a tough time with Boston in a 7 game series? Your post seems to contradict itself. Boston may play them tough in a 7 game series, but it's October 26th.

It is condradictory, and I tried to explain it better in my next post, but to be honest, I'm back and forth on this issue. I think they're going to dominate the average to weak teams, and have a really good record, but I just don't know if they have the toughness to top that team in a 7 game series.

[flyer85]

Udonis Haslem was one of the one important signings in the NBA this offseason. Everyone severely underestimates him because he DOES do the dirty work for the heat.Haslem ia a hard worker who is seriously undersized for the post

[WMR]

Heat will be fine. They'll still be playing for the Championship several months from now.

That's probably the best the Celtics will look all year. The long season will beat them down tremendously. Conversely, that's probably the worst that the Heat will look all season long. You're telling me the Heat can play like absolute garbage and still come within 3 of last year's Eastern Conference Champion (who played very well). Um, yeah, I'll take that I think.

They will be fine in the low post.

Comparing this Heat squad to Bron's Cavaliers teams is just dumb.

[WMR]

Haslem ia a hard worker who is seriously undersized for the post

Chuck Hayes fits the definition of seriously undersized. Haslem is more like average or slightly below average.

[Brutus]

Comparing this Heat squad to Bron's Cavaliers teams is just dumb.

If by dumb you mean two teams that show signs of standing around and watching the star players do everything and wait for a pass to make stand-still jump shots... then yes, so very, completely dumb.

[Brutus]

Cleveland had Mo Williams taking big shots when LBJ was double-teamed. Wade, Bosh, and Mike Miller will be taking those shots this year. It's a very different team than that Cleveland team.

I agree that Mike Miller is going to be a nice option when he gets into the lineup. But I also agree with Flyer that the Cavs were content to spread out and give LeBron the room to operate. The Heat are going to have to be willing to do that to be successful. Bosh, Wade and LeBron were getting in the way of one another last night. I don't suspect they will do that all year, but they have to be able to figure out how to work well together.



I honestly don't think the Heat could have played worst, at least not in that first half. And they were trailing by 3 with a minute to play. Lebron had 8 turnovers, Wade had 6.... and they almost won! Bosh was probably the worst player on the floor last night as well.

I think the Heat are going to be somewhat similar to our Reds. The average to mediocre teams have NO SHOT against this team. However, these guys may struggle a bit with the Lakers/Celtics, and maybe even the Spurs/Thunder/Magic, but there's just no way teams like Golden State, Sacramento, Chicago, etc. can stay on the floor with them. Celtics are the most defensively sound team in the NBA, and they couldn't stay in front of them once they got hot. That's my opinion.

I don't expect them to win the title this year. The Lakers matchup too well with them. However, if someone else somehow comes out of the West, they may have a shot.

They played poorly, but they also trailed almost from start to finish. So while they did make a run to get close, there were very few moments the entire game they looked like they could win. I do agree because of the talent, there will be games they look like world-beaters. And they're a shoe-in for 60 wins.

All I'm saying though is that these issues are ones that are a big deal in the postseason. And for me, it's the postseason that separates the contenders from the pretenders. The big three might be good enough to carry them through the playoffs. I won't discount the possibility. I just think the probability is that will be a little too much to ask given their lack of interior presence and having so few quality options off the bench.

[WMR]

Cleveland had Mo Williams taking big shots when LBJ was double-teamed. Wade, Bosh, and Mike Miller will be taking those shots this year. It's a very different team than that Cleveland team.



Um, yeah. Not to mention people are going off of seven years of data in Cleveland versus ONE GAME in Miami. Trying to draw comparisons or state that the Miami offense we saw last night is going to be what you see when 'everything's workin' is just dumb.

They will get Bosh more involved down low and will use Jones and Miller to force space by hitting open 3s. Wade is an excellent mid-range jump shooter as well.