Reds vs Cardinals 5/14/10 Game Thread

[Reds Fanatic]

Lineups from John Fay:


Reds v Cards, 7:10 p.m at GABP:

CIN

Cabrera 6

Phillips 4

Votto 3

Rolen 5

Gomes 7

Bruce 9

Stubbs 8

Hanigan 2

Harang 1 (2-4, 6.02)

vs. LH Jaime Garcia (3-2, 1.18)

CARDS

Rasmus 8

Ludwick 9

Pujols 3

Holliday 7

Freese 5

Molina 2

Schumaker 4

Garcia 1

Ryan 6

[edabbs44]

Anyone else just a little bit more jacked up for tonights game than usual?

[redsmetz]

Anyone else just a little bit more jacked up for tonights game than usual?

My wife & I are heading down to buy some tickets! :beerme:

[membengal]

Yeah, pretty excited myself, edabbs. Even thought it is just one of 162.

[RED VAN HOT]

At some point the Reds need to believe they can beat these guys.

[Screwball]

I'm actually pretty interested in seeing this Garcia kid. Apparently he's had TJ surgery, and has recovered well. Sickels was always high on him during his MiL career, so it's evident he's got some talent, but TOR talent? Well, that's what I'd like to try to see tonight.

[Degenerate39]

Anyone else just a little bit more jacked up for tonights game than usual?

Yeah I'm really pumped for this game

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Anyone else just a little bit more jacked up for tonights game than usual?

Check

I have my Joey Votto jersey on and am ready to go, even though I can't watch it.

[GAC]

Since 2005 our record vs the Cards is 35W vs 48L.

[nate]

Chat is open!

[smith288]

Good to see thom stopped with the rediculous hair coloring.

[nate]

Good to see thom stopped with the rediculous hair coloring.

Yeah, that was quite the 'do he had.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

How does the crowd look?

[CrackerJack]

*crickets*

[edabbs44]

2 on, Gomes up, 2 out after Rolen pops up.

where is everyone?

[Buckeye33]

Reds having big time trouble with the slider that Garcia is throwing. Guess you'll have that the 1st time you see a pitcher.

[edabbs44]

Gomes infield single. Bases juiced for Bruuuuuce.

[Buckeye33]

Good lord, he's throwing the slider like 80% this inning.

[edabbs44]

Bruce whiffs, had no shot. 0-0 after one.

[oneupper]

Dang it. Can't anyone hit the ball?

[edabbs44]

Double for Schumaker. Drilled over Stubbs' head.

[oneupper]

Did Stubbs misplay that?

[edabbs44]

Did Stubbs misplay that?

I think he took a step in, but unsure if he would have had it.

[kbrake]

I don't think he had a chance either way.

[edabbs44]

2 out, Schumaker to 3rd. Brendan Ryan up. Cabrera with a decent play on the grounder.

And, FTR, he made a really nice play in the 1st.

[membengal]

Did Stubbs misplay that?

Sure didn't look to me like that was catchable regardless. That ball was smoked.

[edabbs44]

Ryan whiffs, 0-0 going bottom 2nd.

[oneupper]

Ryan tosses his bat and helmet. Should Harang get mad?

[Buckeye33]

Note to Reds hitters tonight, Garcia likes to throw a slider.

[edabbs44]

1-2-3 inning. Garcia looks fairly impressive.

[edabbs44]

Pop up to Gomes. Jonny G looking like a young Anduw Jones out there. 1 out.

[edabbs44]

Anyone else notice that post counts aren't moving? By the lack of activity here, I would guess not.

Ludwick singles up the middle. And no, Janish likely wouldn't have had that one. :)

[edabbs44]

2-0 Cards, Albert hits a pop up to rightish center that somehow made it out.

[dsmith421]

The next Reds pitcher that is within six inches of the strike zone against Pujols should be fined $5,000. This is just stupid now.

[mbgrayson]

Everyone else must be at the game....

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Aaron freaking Harang finds a way to bust Pujols out of his extended slump.

Geez, so predictable

[Homer Bailey]

Anyone else notice that post counts aren't moving? By the lack of activity here, I would guess not.

Ludwick singles up the middle. And no, Janish likely wouldn't have had that one. :)

Posts in game threads don't count in your post total.

[kbrake]

Really wish we would quit letting Pujols kick us around.

[edabbs44]

The next Reds pitcher that is within six inches of the strike zone against Pujols should be fined $5,000. This is just stupid now.

I vote to go at him unless it is an obvious situation.

Holliday lines one off of Harang. Single.

[Mario-Rijo]

Supposed to have been a slider down and away, was up and came back over the plate. Easy for the best hitter in the game to hit the mistake.

[dsmith421]

I vote to go at him unless it is an obvious situation.

An obvious situation to me means Albert Pujols is at the plate.

The rest of their lineup is garbage, and yet we permit Pujols to kill us every freaking game. Take the bat out of his hands. Better yet, plug him in the earhole every at-bat. You might give La Doubleday and Carpenter aneurysms in the bargain.

[edabbs44]

Posts in game threads don't count in your post total.

I did not know that.

[kbrake]

I vote to go at him unless it is an obvious situation.

Holliday lines one off of Harang. Single.

With some pitchers maybe thats ok but Harang is getting into David Weathers territory when it comes to ability to keep Pujols in the park.

[CTA513]

Aaron freaking Harang finds a way to bust Pujols out of his extended slump.

Geez, so predictable

Pujols was going to bust out of his slump against the Reds no matter who was pitching tonight.

[Mario-Rijo]

This umpire seems biased I swear! :thumbdown

[oneupper]

Harang threw a frickin' meatball to Pujols. Any one of the cards would have taken him yard.

[oneupper]

This umpire seems biased I swear! :thumbdown

I thought it was just me.

[Joseph]

Harang pitching in all kinds of trouble so far tonight.

[edabbs44]

Hit and run, 1st and 3rd one out. Hopefully this doesn't get out of hand right now.

[edabbs44]

Harang threw a frickin' meatball to Pujols. Any one of the cards would have taken him yard.

Pujols didn't even hit that well.

DP, out of the inning. BP didn't look too enthused on that play.

[kbrake]

That really helped. Problem with getting too jacked up for a game is it can really ruin your night in a hurry. Without that DP it could have got ugly. Ok we have seen Garcia's slider can we make some adjustments?

[CTA513]

Pujols didn't even hit that well.

DP, out of the inning. BP didn't look too enthused on that play.

Probably a deep fly out if any other Cardinals hitter made the same kind of contact.

Still can't make that kind of mistake to him.

[CTA513]

Another easy inning for Garcia.

17 pitches total over the last 2 innings.

[VR]

Cabrera gets ahead 3-0, patient, but grounds out to 2nd.

Phillips hits one up the middle, Shumaker is standing there waiting for it.

Joey hits a sinking liner to left, Holliday catches it just off the ground.


Perhaps it will be that kind of night.

[jojo]

Cabrera gets ahead 3-0, patient, but grounds out to 2nd.

Phillips hits one up the middle, Shumaker is standing there waiting for it.

Joey hits a sinking liner to left, Holliday catches it just off the ground.


Perhaps it will be that kind of night.

its early

[VR]

its early

Yes. I think they'll get to Garcia, as early as this inning.

[Mario-Rijo]

Garcia is a prime example of why the Cards are always the favorites in this division. I mean who expected him to be an intrical pat of the team coming into the season? That's why "on paper" with them is such a flawed exercise.

[VR]

Garcia is a prime example of why the Cards are always the favorites in this division. I mean who expected him to be an intrical pat of the team coming into the season? That's why "on paper" with them is such a flawed exercise.


Duncan can get chaff to perform very well over spurts. Let's see how he does after the league sees him once. I'm not impressed with his stuff.

[mbgrayson]

Bruce walks on 4 straight. Molina walks to the mound and almost yells at Garcia....Molina is part of why the Cards get so much from their pitchers.

[mbgrayson]

After 4 innings, Cards 2, Reds 0.

Harang is at 66 pitches, 44 strikes, 6 hits, 1 BB, and 2 Ks.
Garcia is at 56 pitches, 35 strikes, 2 hits, 1 BB, and 3 Ks.

[Mario-Rijo]

Ludwick looks/plays more like a softball player than a MLB player.

[edabbs44]

4-0...another crap HR. One inch over the fence in RF.

[Joseph]

so much for first place

[dsmith421]

Harang is becoming very Miltonesque.

[Mario-Rijo]

Another mistake pitch by Aaron. Down and away called, up and coming back over the plate executed.

[mbgrayson]

Harang needs to be traded to San Diego or Seattle, or a pitchers's park somewhere.

Both of tonight's Cardinal HRs barely made it over the wall. In San Diego, Harang is throwing a shutout.

[CTA513]

Should be enough unless Garcia falls apart.

[BCubb2003]

At least the rally was killed.

[Red in Chicago]

Harang needs to be traded to San Diego or Seattle, or a pitchers's park somewhere.

Both of tonight's Cardinal HRs barely made it over the wall. In San Diego, Harang is throwing a shutout.

or throwing several innings of relief:p:

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Aaron Harang is anything but a big-game pitcher. And the Reds continue their streak of disappointing excited home crowds.

[CTA513]

Aaron Harang is anything but a big-game pitcher. And the Reds continue their streak of disappointing excited home crowds.

Not really a big game.

[kbrake]

Aaron Harang is anything but a big-game pitcher. And the Reds continue their streak of disappointing excited home crowds.

You would think we would have figured it out by now haha.

[dsmith421]

Not really a big game.

It's about the closest thing to a big game we get here.

[edabbs44]

They need a vet to do something. Hit a bomb, rip a double to the gap. Something to get some life into the team and fans.

[CTA513]

It's about the closest thing to a big game we get here.

Which should tell you how bad the Reds have been when this is considered a big game.

[VR]

So, are there no big games until September?

[Mario-Rijo]

Oh this Garcia is a crafty one.

[VR]

Anyone heard attendance tonight? Joint looks pretty full.

[Red in Chicago]

boo birds on harang

[dsmith421]

Which should tell you how bad the Reds have been when this is considered a big game.

That's the point.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 5th:

Hannigan, on the 8th pitch of the AB, gets an infield single to deep short.
Harang strikes out on a missed bunt, looking terrible.
Cabrerra hits the 2nd pitch into a tailor made 5-4-3 doubleplay.

Garcia at 69 pitches.
Harang at 87 pitches.

Cards 4, Reds 0.

[kbrake]

Which should tell you how bad the Reds have been when this is considered a big game.

I think we all get that but its either take this and get excited or just watch all year and never get excited about anything.

[mbgrayson]

Cardinals 6th:

Schumaker grounds out to Cabrerra.
Garcia grounds out to Cabrerra.
Ryan Ks swinging.

Middle of the 6th, Cards 4, Reds 0.

Harang now at 98 pitches.

[Joseph]

Cardinals 6th:

Schumaker grounds out to Cabrerra.
Garcia grounds out to Cabrerra.
Ryan Ks swinging.

Middle of the 6th, Cards 4, Reds 0.

Harang now at 98 pitches.

He's been watching Homer Bailey pitch.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 6th:

Phillips flies out to the warning track in right.
Votto Ks swinging on a nasty slider.
Rolen Ks swinging.

Garcia at 85 pitches.

After 6 innings, Cards 4, Reds 0.

[mbgrayson]

Once again Harang can't get any run support....weird.

[mbgrayson]

Mike Lincoln in to pitch...

[Doc. Scott]

Lincoln whiffs pujols omg

[CTA513]

Lincoln whiffs pujols omg


Pujols should retire after that.

[VR]

Apparently Jay Bruce is now Micky Morandini....as strike 2 was callled 4 inches off the ground.

[VR]

It really is amazing....any ball that is near the plate is a strike for Garcia....Reds getting none of those calls.

[CTA513]

4-2 Cardinals after Stubbs hits a 2 run homer.

[WVRedsFan]

Stubbs--showing what he can do, homers. Maybe there is hope.

[VR]

When he hits it, he hits it.

[mth123]

Streaky Stubbs with a really long HR. Had power there.

[Homer Bailey]

Uncle!

He is raking from the 7 spot....

[mbgrayson]

Uncle!

He is raking from the 7 spot....

Has seemed to suit him better there...

[VR]

What a fantastic point there by Brennaman.

Carpenter and LaRussa freak out when Carlos Lee strikes out and throws his bat down is disgust.

I'm guessing they are not going to jump on Garcia for doing the exact. Same. Thing.

[klw]

UNCLE

[mbgrayson]

There was Garcia's 1st dinger allowed of the season....wow.

[WVRedsFan]

Cairo. Why?

[Degenerate39]

Why would you pinch hit Cairo there?

[mbgrayson]

Miguel Cairo needs a trip down the highway....

[alloverjr]

Not a big fan of Cairo but it's not like he's the biggest problem on this team. Your number 1 just gave up 4 in 6. Maybe he should find a highway?

[WVRedsFan]

The schedule makers hate us. On a roll and we have to face the RedBirds. It's a plot. Look for the black helicopters

[klw]

Stubbs is 7 for 23 with 2 hr's 2bb since going to the 7 spot.

[Reds Fanatic]

Where was that pitch? Should have been strike 3. But Holliday pops out on the next pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

Freese strikes out swinging on a 96 MPH fastball. 2 outs.

[klw]

Anybody notice the pitcher's duel in Toronto? Jays up on the Rangers 15-10 in the 5th.

[WVRedsFan]

With Nick's stuff, why does he nibble so much?

[Reds Fanatic]

Anybody notice the pitcher's duel in Toronto? Jays up on the Rangers 15-10 in the 5th.Blue Jays have already homered 5 times in 5 innings in that game.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wow runner starts to steal and is caught stealing as Masset turns and throws him out. As Molina goes in to 2nd his helmet hit Phillips right in the mouth.

[Bob Borkowski]

What was the exact attendance tonight...Marty said it was 27, 500 plus.

Should have been more.

[oneupper]

This ump is awful.

[RedsMan3203]

What was the exact attendance tonight...Marty said it was 27, 500 plus.

Should have been more.

27,568 at #Reds game tonight

[Reds Fanatic]

Cabrera flies out to left.

And Cairo was tossed from the game for arguing a call last inning.

[Bob Borkowski]

27,568 at #Reds game tonight

Thanks.

[Degenerate39]

By God the Reds better bean Pujols tonight

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips hit by the pitch on a breaking pitch. First he gets hit in the mouth by a helmet now he gets hit by the pitch.

[RedsMan3203]

By God the Reds better bean Pujols tonight

Cincinnati teams don't have enough balls to do anything about it. Cheap shots in Bengals games, they lay low and nothing ever happens...

Reds player gets hit, our pitchers never return the favor....

St. Louis team is a joke and a bunch of crazy idiots.

[Reds Fanatic]

Trever Miller in to face Votto

[WVRedsFan]

The umpire is dong strange things (from home plate) and Votto is really miffed. 2 outs

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto flies out to left and angrily tosses his bat away. I am sure the Cardinals had their feelings hurt by that.

[oneupper]

Votto is PO'd

[Reds Fanatic]

Mitchell Boggs in to pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen flies out to right. 4-2 Cards after 8.

[edabbs44]

That sucks...Votto and/or Rolen need to step up there.

[alloverjr]

The change in competition is apparent.

[oneupper]

You can tell that the Reds were psyched for this game. Emotions are flowing.
Don't know if that's good or bad.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rhodes in to pitch the 9th

[Reds Fanatic]

Schumaker singles to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Boggs bunts into a 1-6 FC. 1 out.

[edabbs44]

You can tell that the Reds were psyched for this game. Emotions are flowing.
Don't know if that's good or bad.

Just the first game. I was saying in another thread, I just don't want to see them get wiped out this series. Putting some runs on the board was key IMO.

[WVRedsFan]

What do the Cardinals have over the Reds? Attitude. Larussa messed with the Reds minds last inning.

[Reds Fanatic]

What a stop by Phillips to start a 4-6 FC. 2 outs.

[edabbs44]

Hell of a play by BP, 2 down.

[VR]

Great play by Phillips...yikes.

[kbrake]

What do the Cardinals have over the Reds? Attitude. Larussa messed with the Reds minds last inning.

Talent?

[Reds Fanatic]

Mather hits for Rasmus and pops out to 2nd. 4-2 Cards mid 9th.

[WVRedsFan]

If this game ends like it stands now, and I expect it will if not worse. the differece was offense. Southpaws rule the Reds.

[Reds Fanatic]

Franklin in to pitch.

Gomes, Bruce and Stubbs due up.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomes just missed a deep foul to left on the first pitch.

[Degenerate39]

wow

[edabbs44]

That was ripped...and very close to being a HR.

[Reds Fanatic]

2-2 count on Gomes

[Reds Fanatic]

Infield hit for Gomes to start the 9th. His 3rd hit of the night.

[Degenerate39]

Not a homer but I'll take it

[WVRedsFan]

Infield single. Hope springs eternal.

[edabbs44]

Joony G with the infield single. Really becoming a spark plug on this team.

[Degenerate39]

Gomes steals 2nd!

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomes steals 2nd. No one covers 2nd on the play.

[edabbs44]

SB for JG.

[VR]

Good for Gomes. Heads up play.

[WVRedsFan]

Great move by Gomes. Steals second erasing the DP.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bloop single to center for Bruce. 1st and 3rd with no outs.

[flyer85]

I hate the Cardinals

[mbgrayson]

I like how hard they are working Franklin so far.

1st and 3rd, none out. Franklin at 12 pitches, none out.

[mth123]

Streaky Stubbs on a hot streak with a chance to be a hero.

[Degenerate39]

Stubbs you need to launch another one into the stands here

[edabbs44]

Yeah Bruce.

[edabbs44]

Seriously...Drew needs to find a gap.

[WVRedsFan]

Blown Save #2?

[Reds Fanatic]

Stubbs grounds into a 6-4 FC. 4-3 Cards. 1 out.

[edabbs44]

At least it wasn't a DP.

Assume we go Hanigan/Nix.

[Degenerate39]

You better send Stubbs here

[edabbs44]

How about a hit and run?

[Reds Fanatic]

Hanigan lines a single to center. 1st and 2nd.

[edabbs44]

Base hit Hanigan. Nice.

[SirFelixCat]

Awesome job by Hanigan, wow.

[Degenerate39]

Single up the middle! First and second

[SirFelixCat]

Would you double steal here?

[Degenerate39]

Would you double steal here?

With Stubbs and Heisey on the base paths I would.

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey running for Hanigan.

Hernandez pinch hitting

[SirFelixCat]

I'm ok w/ Razor here...better contact hitter, but I'm double stealing w/o a doubt here.

[Homer Bailey]

Hernandez? Sounds like a DP to me....

[WVRedsFan]

well, the table is set. Time for Dusty to do something smart. Heisey gets into the game with Hernandez up? What's up with that? I don't understand. DP city. Slow runner means disaster.

[flyer85]

Dusty is begging for a DP ... what is he doinfg

[Homer Bailey]

Hernandez? Sounds like a DP to me....

Well done dusty...

[edabbs44]

What a crap ending.

[Reds Fanatic]

6-4-3 DP on the first pitch ends the game. Reds lose 4-3.

[Degenerate39]

Crap

[flyer85]

Aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[jojo]

Nothing about that last decision/at bat was very edifying.

[kbrake]

I'm ok with the move. Ramon you have to be better than that.

[SirFelixCat]

SO so dumb...a double steal makes so much sense for so many reasons...you need a basehit to score a run anyway and even if they throw one out, you still have a guy in scoring position and still need a hit. Plus, you stay out of the DP.


Dammit!

[VR]

I'm hoping we're going to hear that Nix was unavailable to pinch hit. If not, inexplicable.

[oneupper]

Curse words in rapid succession. :thumbdown

[WVRedsFan]

well, the table is set. Time for Dusty to do something smart. Heisey gets into the game with Hernandez up? What's up with that? I don't understand. DP city. Slow runner means disaster.Even a dip stick like me could see that happening. Dusty drives me crazy. Why in the name of everything holy did Dusty make that move? With Nix on the bench? And, as usual the Cardinals win. It gets disgusting to see this time after time. Good grief.

[flyer85]

the dice come up snake eyes. I was certain it would be Nix or Heisey. I hate Larussa and the Cards but he is light years ahead of Dusty

[edabbs44]

OK with the decision, Ramon has been hitting well.

[Joseph]

I'm hoping we're going to hear that Nix was unavailable to pinch hit. If not, inexplicable.

Dusty must just owe LaRussa a favor.

[Reds Fanatic]

He definetly did not pick Hernandez due to his past against Franklin. Hernandez is now 3 for 22 lifetime versus Frankin.

[Joseph]

With Wainright going in one of the other games. That pretty much sealed a 3rd series loss against the Cards.

[hebroncougar]

SO so dumb...a double steal makes so much sense for so many reasons...you need a basehit to score a run anyway and even if they throw one out, you still have a guy in scoring position and still need a hit. Plus, you stay out of the DP.


Dammit!

I don't agree with double stealing in that situation, but when Dusty sent up the RH batter, I was sure that's what they were going to do.

[flyer85]

shoot me and put me out of my misery

[WVRedsFan]

Heck, why not hit Leake or Owings? Just stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. Another loss to those idiots on a managerial error. Ramon Freaking Hernandez, the slowest man -- the most impatient man in God's universe and Dusty pulls his number? Good freakiing goodness. Just livid here.

[flyer85]

He definetly did not pick Hernandez due to his past against Franklin. Hernandez is now 3 for 22 lifetime versus Frankin.I would love to hear the thought process that arrived at Ramon. I can't come up with anything

[mbgrayson]

I have to go get sick....

Why oh why did Dusty pinch hit Hernandez there? Career, Ramon was 3 for 21 (.143) against Franklin.

Nix is not great in his career against Franklin, but he is better: 4 for 16, but is also left handed,and he is faster than Hernandez. Ouch.

Very disappointing 9th....

Anyone who says Dusty only costs the Reds a couple games a year just doesn't watch them all. No guarantee with Nix, but I started writing this before the 6-4-3.

[Spring~Fields]

Final St. Louis 4, Cincinnati 3

WP: J. Garcia (4-2) S: R. Franklin (8)
LP: A. Harang (2-5)

Scoring Summary
Top 3rd: St. Louis
Pujols homered to deep center, R. Ludwick scored

Top 5th: St. Louis
Ludwick homered to deep right, C. Rasmus scored

Bot 7th: Cincinnati
Stubbs homered to deep center, J. Gomes scored

Bot 9th: Cincinnati
Stubbs grounded into fielder's choice, J. Gomes scored, J. Bruce out at second

Reds Batting
2B - J Gomes (5, J Garcia).
HR - D Stubbs (4, 7th inning off J Garcia 1 on, 1 Out).
RBI - D Stubbs 3 (16).
Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - J Bruce 2.
GIDP - O Cabrera, R Hernandez.
Team LOB - 6.

Fielding
DP - 1 (S Rolen-B Phillips-J Votto).

[redsfaninbsg]

I watched the game tonight and didn't follow the thread so I've not read it. Anyway, was Nix sick or something? I was sure he would PH in the 9th.

[alloverjr]

I would love to hear the thought process that arrived at Ramon. I can't come up with anything

Dusty. That's all I got.

[WVRedsFan]

I cannot believe that this game ended this way. Stupid. I can't get over it.

[edabbs44]

I would love to hear the thought process that arrived at Ramon. I can't come up with anything

Hanigan was being pinch run for anyway. Nix has been awful this season.

[WVRed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A

[RedsMan3203]

Can't win them all.... Lets get them tomorrow....

[Reds Fanatic]

I would love to hear the thought process that arrived at Ramon. I can't come up with anythingI am at a complete loss. Pretty much any other move he could have done makes more sense. Other pinch hitters, double steal maybe even a bunt but Ramon hitting there makes no sense.

[membengal]

I would love to hear the thought process that arrived at Ramon. I can't come up with anything

Got me.

On top of that, Nix would have had the hole on the right side of the infield to shoot for.

I got nothing for why Ramon there.

Plus, Ramon didn't give them a chance to try and double steal and at least avoid the chance at the DP. Hit the first pitch into that crap.

[mth123]

The issue is personnel. The bench choices are Cairo, Janish, Nix, the back-up catcher and a rookie with about 10 PAs. I wouldn't have chosen Ramon there, but its not like there was a good choice to make.

[flyer85]

Hanigan was being pinch run for anyway. Nix has been awful this season.ah so PH your slow footed GB hitting catcher, it must make sense in some alternate universe

[membengal]

The issue is personnel. The bench choices are Cairo, Janish, Nix, the back-up catcher and a rookie with about 10 PAs. I wouldn't have chosen Ramon there, but its not like there was a good choice to make.

The lefty. With a hole to shoot for on the right side of the infield. And, as a bonus, who isn't slower than me. Which is pretty slow.

Nix isn't all that, but he was the obvious choice there.

[hebroncougar]

Got me.

On top of that, Nix would have had the hole on the right side of the infield to shoot for.

I got nothing for why Ramon there.

Plus, Ramon didn't give them a chance to try and double steal and at least avoid the chance at the DP. Hit the first pitch into that crap.

Were the Cards holding the runner on first?

[alloverjr]

Hanigan was being pinch run for anyway. Nix has been awful this season.

Why waste a pinch runner for Hanigan in that situation? Unless you start the runners his speed does not come into play unless there's a gap shot, and even Hanigan gets to 3rd on that with still 1 out. That move was just as perplexing as Hernandez vs. Nix.

[hebroncougar]

Why waste a pinch runner for Hanigan in that situation? Unless you start the runners his speed does not come into play unless there's a gap shot, and even Hanigan gets to 3rd on that with still 1 out. That move was just as perplexing as Hernandez vs. Nix.

Because it's the winning run.................

[Homer Bailey]

Get ready for some Dustification.

[mbgrayson]

The issue is personnel. The bench choices are Cairo, Janish, Nix, the back-up catcher and a rookie with about 10 PAs. I wouldn't have chosen Ramon there, but its not like there was a good choice to make.

Owings available there too. He is 1 for 1 lifetime against Franklin. Cairo already had been used...

[mth123]

The lefty. With a hole to shoot for on the right side of the infield. And, as a bonus, who isn't slower than me. Which is pretty slow.

Nix isn't all that, but he was the obvious choice there.

Agreed, but he's still not a good choice.

[membengal]

Were the Cards holding the runner on first?

I think they were. Only pitch to Ramon, so not entirely sure. But I can't imagine LaRussa giving the runner at first a free head start at stealing second on the back half of a potential double steal. Not his style.

[membengal]

Agreed, but he's still not a good choice.

Okay.

But still obvious, even if not good. You just can't put the old slow groundball hitting guy at the dish in that situation.

[edabbs44]

ah so PH your slow footed GB hitting catcher, it must make sense in some alternate universe

Which speedster are you using as your PHer then?

At that point you are looking for a guy who can get a hit. Ramon is as good a bet as any.

I can't see a better choice available.

[flyer85]

The game show that comes to mind is Jokers Wild when a contestant would go "off the board" ... which is what Dusty does with great frequency

[alloverjr]

Because it's the winning run.................

How many more ways does Heisey score from 1st than Hanagin in that at bat?

[edabbs44]

Okay.

But still obvious, even if not good. You just can't put the old slow groundball hitting guy at the dish in that situation.

In that situation, you want the guy who has the best shot of getting a hit. Play to win, not play to beat out the potential DP.

Herm needs to join this board.

[mbgrayson]

How many more ways does Heisey score from 1st than Hanagin in that at bat?

Well, Heisey scores on a double, Hannigan more doubtful.

My problem is why not Nix there?

[Degenerate39]

You have your two fastest guys on the team on base. Why dont you double steal there? Worst case scenario is one of them gets thrown out but you still have one guy in scoring position. If both of them move up 90 feet then the DP is out

[hebroncougar]

How many more ways does Heisey score from 1st than Hanagin in that at bat?

Look..........I don't like Dusty as much as most people on here, but taking him to task for pinch running for a catcher on first when he's the winning run with one out in the ninth inning is kinda nuts. I'm not sure he made the right choice withe the runner (I'd have chosen Janish, and batted Heisey), but most managers do that. It's a strictly by the book situation.

[WVRedsFan]

In that situation, you want the guy who has the best shot of getting a hit. Play to win, not play to beat out the potential DP.

Herm needs to join this board.With Ramon's record against Franklin and his impatience this is just a stupid move. First pitch? Come on. Just so freaking stupid that it makes no sense to even argue about it. Just stupid.

[flyer85]

Which speedster are you using as your PHer then?

At that point you are looking for a guy who can get a hit. Ramon is as good a bet as any.

I can't see a better choice available.
Like I posted right before it happened, it was begging for a DP. You want 2 cracks a hit so you DO NOT send up a guy who he is going to be a DP if he hits a grounder in the field UNLESS he is a much better hitter. Dusty is going to say some crap like since he was PRing for Hanigan he would save a player by batting Hernandez

[edabbs44]

Look..........I don't like Dusty as much as most people on here, but taking him to task for pinch running for a catcher on first when he's the winning run with one out in the ninth inning is kinda nuts. I'm not sure he made the right choice withe the runner (I'd have chosen Janish, and batted Heisey), but most managers do that. It's a strictly by the book situation.

Because it is always Dusty's fault.

[flyer85]

How many more ways does Heisey score from 1st than Hanagin in that at bat?very few, but there are a whole lot more ways he doesn't ground into a DP

[CTA513]

Because it is always Dusty's fault.

I hear its never his fault at all.

[OnBaseMachine]

What the heck was Dusty Baker thinking? With the Reds trailing 4-3 in the bottom of the 9th and runners on first and second with only one out against Ryan Franklin, Dusty Baker chose to pinch hit with Ramon Hernandez instead of Laynce Nix. Incredible. Left handed hitters are hitting .300 with a .700 OPS vs Franklin while right handed hitters are hitting .206 with a .464 OPS vs Franklin. Not to mention Hernandez is incredibly slow and a groundball machine. So what does Hernandez do? Double play on the first pitch. What a shocker!

Maybe Hernandez has hit well against Franklin in the past? Nope. He's now 3-for-22 against him. What an awful, awful decision by Dusty Baker. If you aren't going to use Laynce Nix in that situation then why in the world is he on the team? This, IMO, is easily the worst decision he's made since using Aaron Harang and Edinson Volquez in relief in San Diego.

[membengal]

In that situation, you want the guy who has the best shot of getting a hit. Play to win, not play to beat out the potential DP.

Herm needs to join this board.

Yeah. The 3 for 21 guy lifetime against Franklin was their best shot at getting a hit.

Full disagree.

Nix, with the hole, and some pop, was the play. And, a guy who is more used to pinch-hitting in such situations.

And, no, I am not second-guessing. I first-guessed that in chat. Not like I am a seer or anything, fact is, Dusty went way off the board with that move, and it back-fired.

[mth123]

Look..........I don't like Dusty as much as most people on here, but taking him to task for pinch running for a catcher on first when he's the winning run with one out in the ninth inning is kinda nuts. I'm not sure he made the right choice withe the runner (I'd have chosen Janish, and batted Heisey), but most managers do that. It's a strictly by the book situation.

Should have used Cueto to run.

I'm guessing the Decision to use Hernandez was because PR for Hanigan burns a position player and Ramon is going to need to be used if the Reds tie it. Dusty probably didn't want to use up everyone so soon. Using Cueto to PR would have helped with that problem.

[edabbs44]

Like I posted right before it happened, it was begging for a DP. You want 2 cracks a hit so you DO NOT send up a guy who he is going to be a DP if he hits a grounder in the field UNLESS he is a much better hitter. Dusty is going to say some crap like since he was PRing for Hanigan he would save a player by batting Hernandez

So who was the obvious PHer?

[membengal]

edabbs, are you being deliberately obtuse? At least 10 people on this thread either made the case for Nix ahead of time or stated why it should have been Nix after the fact.

Dusty got this one wrong. It's okay. It happens. It's possible to admit that occasionally, he gets a decision wrong. He got this one wrong.

[flyer85]

So who was the obvious PHer?
Heisey or Nix. Heisey speed keeps him out of a most DP situations and Nix is a FB hitter thus unlikely to hit in a DP. And make no mistake, Ramon is a not very good slow footed GB hitting DP candidate.

[WVRedsFan]

So who was the obvious PHer?

Anyone but Hernandez. You are trying to avoid the game-ending DP, so you pick the team's slowest, most impatient player and you negate the fact that you are putting a right handed hitter who doesn't hit Franklin well
in a game where you can take the division lead? Give me a break.

[mbgrayson]

So who was the obvious PHer?

Dusty says Nix not available...

[edabbs44]

Yeah. The 3 for 21 guy lifetime against Franklin was their best shot at getting a hit.

Full disagree.

Nix, with the hole, and some pop, was the play. And, a guy who is more used to pinch-hitting in such situations.

And, no, I am not second-guessing. I first-guessed that in chat. Not like I am a seer or anything, fact is, Dusty went way off the board with that move, and it back-fired.

I could argue either way but I think it is a bit much to roast a manager who PHs a player who currently is hitting near .300 vs RHPs this season, with an OBP over .400. Instead of say Nix, who has been horrible this year.

[westofyou]

he didn't want to waste a bat, he had used a PR for the catcher, and Hernandez would have to come in if the game was tied.

I'm sure his plan wasn't perfect for it ended up in the worst way it could have, but it's a defendable move based on using ones bench.

[edabbs44]

Anyone but Hernandez. You are trying to avoid the game-ending DP, so you pick the team's slowest, most impatient player and you negate the fact that you are putting a right handed hitter who doesn't hit Franklin well
in a game where you can take the division lead? Give me a break.

No, you are trying to win the game. Forget the DP.

[alloverjr]

Look..........I don't like Dusty as much as most people on here, but taking him to task for pinch running for a catcher on first when he's the winning run with one out in the ninth inning is kinda nuts. I'm not sure he made the right choice withe the runner (I'd have chosen Janish, and batted Heisey), but most managers do that. It's a strictly by the book situation.

If Hernandez( or Nix), hits a double, you still have 2nd and 3rd with one out in a tie game and you haven't unnecissarily wasted a position player. A gap shot is the only outcome where this move pans out. I realize this haad no bearing on the outcome if Ramon was his #1 choice o hit there but that doesn't explain that decision.

Now, if the plan was a double steal atempt and Ramon missed the sign then I get it but I don't think the runners were moving.

[membengal]

Sure, turn this into a Dusty-is-so-persecuted issue.

Whatever. That gets old. But I guess it serves the purpose of killing discussion.

Later.

[RedsMan3203]

Nix was unavailable to PH tonight.

[mth123]

Nix was unavailale per Dusty.

[WVRedsFan]

Dusty says Nix was unavailable, so why do you use Heisey to run knowing you had no choice to hit anyone but Hernandez? That being the case...oh, I give up.

[paintmered]

Nix was unavailable to PH tonight.

Well, that explains that.

[membengal]

Well, that explains that.

That does indeed.

[edabbs44]

edabbs, are you being deliberately obtuse? At least 10 people on this thread either made the case for Nix ahead of time or stated why it should have been Nix after the fact.

Dusty got this one wrong. It's okay. It happens. It's possible to admit that occasionally, he gets a decision wrong. He got this one wrong.

I don't care how many people made a case for a .175 hitter to PH. Many love to pick apart everything this guy does. And that's fine.

bUT Hernandez is hitting 100 points better than Nix this season. That doesn't matter?

[mth123]

Dusty says Nix was unavailable, so why do you use Heisey to run knowing you had no choice to hit anyone but Hernandez? That being the case...oh, I give up.

I think running with Heisey, especialy with a short bench, is a bigger issue IMO. The Reds have a couple of pitchers who can run. Cueto would have been a good choice.