USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - USA Eliminated

[MWM]

This ref is going to have to hand Ghana a yellow card at some point.

[WMR]

golllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[Reds Fanatic]

Goal Donovan!

[GIDP]

Yes!

[MWM]

Brilliant run by Dempsey and a no-brainer call for the penalty.

[WMR]

USA starting to boss the game

[GIDP]

US has been playing soooooo much better this half. Its like the tables have completely turned.

[MWM]

Edu just doesn'tplay smart very often. His head doesn't seem to be there.

And Bocanegra might have lost a step, and might not be the most talented player, but I like having him in there. He plays very smart.

[11larkin11]

Dempsey has gotten the crap kicked completely out of him in the last two games.

[Slyder]

Jozy did give him a bit of shove LoL.

But this team is playing WORLDS better. Not just attacking but defending they arent letting Ghana dictate space like they were in the first half. This is the type of game I was expecting.

[MWM]

Yeah, the defense has actually looked pretty good the last two games with the exception of Clark's brain lapse

[MWM]

Geez, these guys are just shoving our guys around. Tired of seeing US guys on the ground.

[Slyder]

They didnt impress me in group play and honestly yes they controlled most of the first half but Ghana still hasnt shown to have playmakers to finish. They have a bunch of above average players but they dont have an elite player on the roster.

I still think you are watching two of the better goalkeepers in the World Cup. If the Algerian Keeper hesistated even for a second he gives up a strong shot to I think Jozy. Both goalkeepers have played well and arguably the biggest reason both clubs are at this point. 30 minutes left, no golden goal (I actually miss this) were in for a good show.

[GIDP]

Well hopefully the US comes out good to start the extra time.

[MWM]

I keep trying to figure out of Ghana was that good in the first half, or if the US was that bad. Other than the goal, Ghana has not had many good looks like the US did.

The US has looked very good late in games and Ghana did look a little tired. Who knows!

[GIDP]

I keep trying to figure out of Ghana was that good in the first half, or if the US was that bad. Other than the goal, Ghana has not had many good looks like the US did.

US looked flat as could be. 2nd half seemed more to what I expected.

[11larkin11]

Gomez in for Jozy

[Slyder]

Looking like one of my rec games. Punt Off by the goalies early.

[Slyder]

Crap.

[MWM]

Not sure who to blame for that one. Demerit was a little out of position, but was just outran. Not much Howard could do about it.

[MWM]

Oh man, that ball was going into the corner and barely hit off the guy's leg.

[GIDP]

This isnt looking good.

[Slyder]

Both teams look like they are on E. Lots of long balls, very little development, seems like a lot of kicking and praying and Ghana got theirs on it. Gonna be tough for the US now, after going to the well as often as us has needed.

[MWM]

Once again, Donovan has been a complete non-factor. Late in the first extra time he had a chance to try to make a run and create something and he chose to pull it back and hope to make some cross that was never going to work.

[OldRightHander]

Just get one and take our chances with the shootout at this point. This team has been entertaining, but my expectations were for a little more advancement. I'm not giving up all hope yet.

[MWM]

Bush league. How could a true competitor employ such practices.

This ref ought to add 5 minutes of stoppage time.

[GIDP]

Really really hate how you can burn 10+ minutes off by faking injuries. Seriously that stuff has to stop.

[Slyder]

Goals for the next 4 years:
1 Tighten up the leaks in the back
2 Develop some strikers that can score.
3 Work on strength to start stronger, we went to the well one too many times.

We already got more endurance than many of the teams but we need to figure out how to get started, whether it be personel changes, staff changes, training regiment, whatever something needs to change to get this team to play the first half like it did in the second half many times this year.

[Slyder]

Really really hate how you can burn 10+ minutes off by faking injuries. Seriously that stuff has to stop.

Like was said by Alexis we lost this game on possession. When they got that 2nd "lucky bounce" the well was empty. They didnt burn but maybe a couple minutes with the injuries. Ghana held the ball well in the 2nd 15, not allowing the US to have the time to build an attack.

[MWM]

Ah well, lots of positives to come out of this WC. I know we've been saying it for years, but the US is getting better every year relative to the rest of the world. They have a ways to go, but it's a process.

Altidore and Bradley form a very solid core for the next 8-10 years, and I think the difference with those two is they will give the team some personality on the field. I think Feilhaber can also be a real player and he's 25, so has some good years left. Clint Dempsey might have one more cup in him, but he's 27, so he could start to break down soon as physical as he plays.

And I haven't entirely given up on Freddy Adu yet, although I'm pretty close. But with the talent that guy has, if he can get over himself and learn how to play the game of soccer instead of trying to make the highlight reel, he could still be the best player the US has seen.

The future is looking brighter every day for US soccer. And I know this isn't very popular, but i'm looking forward to Donovan not being the premier player (and I have never thought of him as the best ever US player. That designation goes to Claudio Reyna, IMO). He's very talented, but he lacks any kind of real competitive drive. No killer instinct at all and the US needs their best players to be leaders and play with some spirit. Donovan is not that guy through no fault of his own.

Now if we can just get a manager who doesn't do silly things like starting Ricardo Clark in the biggest game in US soccer history. That's a Bob Boone type of move by overthinking things.

[Yachtzee]

Well, on the bright side, the US continues to show progress and at least some of these guys are young enough to be around for the next World Cup. I hope the experience they've gotten this time around will lead to the US being even stronger the next time around.

[GIDP]

Like was said by Alexis we lost this game on possession. When they got that 2nd "lucky bounce" the well was empty. They didnt burn but maybe a couple minutes with the injuries. Ghana held the ball well in the 2nd 15, not allowing the US to have the time to build an attack.

they certainly burned more than the 3 given at the end of the game. They burned at least 4 with the guy laying on the ground, then walking across the field. Then every throw in they burned at least 10-15. Then on that one corner they burned probably 25-30 seconds.

Maybe my judgement of time is awful but I certainly they burned more than a couple minutes. They took their sweet time doing everything. Within reason is fine but when its blatant its an issue.

[MWM]

Goals for the next 4 years:
1 Tighten up the leaks in the back
2 Develop some strikers that can score.
3 Work on strength to start stronger, we went to the well one too many times.


Yep. They also need to learn how to play a more physical game. They get pushed around too often, like they did today.

And as silly as this may sound, they have got to figure out how to play with their heads better. Bradley is the only guy who ever wins long, high balls with his head. I kind of chuckle a little watching most of the US players trying to o up and challenge head balls. They lose almost every time. I think this is an important part of the game.

[Tony Cloninger]

When they tied it...I thought they were going to win it. I could not tell if it was more difficult to try and score the equalizer or trying to defend it.

I was hoping they would the themselves out for the next game...but Ghana looks like it could play another 30 minutes without a sweat.

[Yachtzee]

Ah well, lots of positives to come out of this WC. I know we've been saying it for years, but the US is getting better every year relative to the rest of the world. They have a ways to go, but it's a process.

Altidore and Bradley form a very solid core for the next 8-10 years, and I think the difference with those two is they will give the team some personality on the field. I think Feilhaber can also be a real player and he's 25, so has some good years left. Clint Dempsey might have one more cup in him, but he's 27, so he could start to break down soon as physical as he plays.

And I haven't entirely given up on Freddy Adu yet, although I'm pretty close. But with the talent that guy has, if he can get over himself and learn how to play the game of soccer instead of trying to make the highlight reel, he could still be the best player the US has seen.

The future is looking brighter every day for US soccer. And I know this isn't very popular, but i'm looking forward to Donovan not being the premier player (and I have never thought of him as the best ever US player. That designation goes to Claudio Reyna, IMO). He's very talented, but he lacks any kind of real competitive drive. No killer instinct at all and the US needs their best players to be leaders and play with some spirit. Donovan is not that guy through no fault of his own.

Now if we can just get a manager who doesn't do silly things like starting Ricardo Clark in the biggest game in US soccer history. That's a Bob Boone type of move by overthinking things.

I think Donovan might have one more Cup in him. I'm hoping his play with the USMNT and Everton gets him a transfer to the EPL where he can get the experience he needs to be the Field General type #10 he can be. But then again, maybe Bradley takes over for him by that time and he takes the supporting role next time around.

I think if Dempsey makes it to another World Cup, he might be playing the role of the dangerous sub off the bench.

I had a bad feeling about this game when I saw Findley and Clark in the starting lineup. The US always seems to play better and with more determination when Findley and Clark are on the bench.

[GIDP]

They certainly have a nice base of young talent.

[GIDP]

I come away from the Cup being very high on Bradley and Edu. I think they both play harder than anyone else on the field. Well other than maybe Dempsey.

[Yachtzee]

Yep. They also need to learn how to play a more physical game. They get pushed around too often, like they did today.

And as silly as this may sound, they have got to figure out how to play with their heads better. Bradley is the only guy who ever wins long, high balls with his head. I kind of chuckle a little watching most of the US players trying to o up and challenge head balls. They lose almost every time. I think this is an important part of the game.

I think the US has always played a physical game. Their problem is that they they don't "sell" it when they get fouled. You look at guys like Dempsey and even Brian McBride in years past and they would get laid out with elbows to the head and pop right back up with blood running down their face. Some other teams would have their guys rolling on the ground for five minutes. In the US we just have the mentality of "rub some dirt on it, walk it off, and get back in there."

Bradley is good and still young, so we've got that going for us. We could use some players good in the air, like we had when Brian McBride still played internationally.

[reds1869]

I'm very disappointed in the way we went out. We can hold out heads high, but it still stings.

[GIDP]

If FIFA wants to fix flopping they will take replay and give cards out for it. They should already dosomething like that for bad yellows given.

[Slyder]

Yep. They also need to learn how to play a more physical game. They get pushed around too often, like they did today.

And as silly as this may sound, they have got to figure out how to play with their heads better. Bradley is the only guy who ever wins long, high balls with his head. I kind of chuckle a little watching most of the US players trying to o up and challenge head balls. They lose almost every time. I think this is an important part of the game.

I concur, I dont know about the whole playing on headballs I do not think the US will ever get the caliber of athletes that many places get to match head to head. Soccer is 3rd, 4thish in the US where as its #1,2,3, and 4 in many places in the world.

I still think that Richard Kingson is one of the more underrated keepers left, but Uruguay is more disciplined than the US is on defense.

[MWM]

I think Donovan might have one more Cup in him. I'm hoping his play with the USMNT and Everton gets him a transfer to the EPL where he can get the experience he needs to be the Field General type #10 he can be. But then again, maybe Bradley takes over for him by that time and he takes the supporting role next time around.

I used to be a huge Landon Donovan fan clear back in 2001-2002. I used to tell people I named my son after him (even though we got the name somewhere else). I thought he was going to give the US that playmaker they've never had before.

I was always disappointed when he chose not to play in Europe. From a strictly soccer perspective, he'd be SOOOO much better off now had he went there as a 20 year old. But having said that, there's more to life than sports. I can't fault him for choosing life over career, and my understanding is that's why he chose not to go across the pond.

But I don't think he has much confidence that he can play with the big boys because he plays so tentative, almost scared, in big games. He has no aggressiveness at all. He reminds me a lot of Adam Dunn in a sense. When Dunner was demolishing way through the minors and came up and easily put up such great numbers right from the start, I thought he was going to be an absolute beast, more like Pujols has become. But he never seemed to get better over the years, and his defense got worse. He's a very good and productive player, but he never became what a lot of us imagined he would. As much as I liked the guy, he was always a bit of a disappointment. That's how I feel about Landon.

[reds1869]

I used to be a huge Landon Donovan fan clear back in 2001-2002. I used to tell people I named my son after him (even though we got the name somewhere else). I thought he was going to give the US that playmaker they've never had before.

I was always disappointed when he chose not to play in Europe. From a strictly soccer perspective, he'd be SOOOO much better off now had he went there as a 20 year old. But having said that, there's more to life than sports. I can't fault him for choosing life over career, and my understanding is that's why he chose not to go across the pond.

But I don't think he has much confidence that he can play with the big boys because he plays so tentative, almost scared, in big games. He has no aggressiveness at all. He reminds me a lot of Adam Dunn in a sense. When Dunner was demolishing way through the minors and came up and easily put up such great numbers right from the start, I thought he was going to be an absolute beast, more like Pujols has become. But he never seemed to get better over the years, and his defense got worse. He's a very good and productive player, but he never became what a lot of us imagined he would. As much as I liked the guy, he was always a bit of a disappointment. That's how I feel about Landon.

Very well put. Landon is one of my favorite players but you have to accept him for what he is: good, not great. That said, he is in line to make a boatload of cash this transfer window.

[Hoosier Red]

I concur, I dont know about the whole playing on headballs I do not think the US will ever get the caliber of athletes that many places get to match head to head. Soccer is 3rd, 4thish in the US where as its #1,2,3, and 4 in many places in the world.



And even saying that, the US athletes are almost always stronger, faster, and better conditioned than their opponents. It's soccer specific technical details which the US needs to continue to improve on.

Guys who made the team and will still be in their 20's in the next WC.
Jonathan Spector-3/1/86
Michael Bradley-7/31/87
Stuart Holden-8/1/85
Jose Torres-10/29/87
Jozy Altidore-11/6/89(WOW he's only 20!)
Maurice Edu-4/18/86
Robbie Findlay-8/4/85
Benny Feilhaber-1/19/85
Jonathan Bornstein-11/7/84

Add in a list of guys who have seen some national team time and are getting some work on international teams;
Freddy Adu-6/2/89(He's only 21)
Alejandro Bedoya-4/29/87
Edgar Castillo-10/8/86
Charlie Davies-6/25/86
Sacha Kjllestan-9/9/85

and others, and you have a pretty good base of players. Now think back to the 2006 WC and think of how many guys on this team you hadn't even heard of.

The US roster continues to improve.

[reds1869]

I like the look of that roster. I think that some of the older players from this team may yet have a run in them, though hopefully as key reserves and not feature men.

[Slyder]

And even saying that, the US athletes are almost always stronger, faster, and better conditioned than their opponents. It's soccer specific technical details which the US needs to continue to improve on.

Guys who made the team and will still be in their 20's in the next WC.
Jonathan Spector-3/1/86
Michael Bradley-7/31/87
Stuart Holden-8/1/85
Jose Torres-10/29/87
Jozy Altidore-11/6/89(WOW he's only 20!)
Maurice Edu-4/18/86
Robbie Findlay-8/4/85
Benny Feilhaber-1/19/85
Jonathan Bornstein-11/7/84

Add in a list of guys who have seen some national team time and are getting some work on international teams;
Freddy Adu-6/2/89(He's only 21)
Alejandro Bedoya-4/29/87
Edgar Castillo-10/8/86
Charlie Davies-6/25/86
Sacha Kjllestan-9/9/85

and others, and you have a pretty good base of players. Now think back to the 2006 WC and think of how many guys on this team you hadn't even heard of.

The US roster continues to improve.

Looking at the list of birthdays makes me feel OLD and im a 1983 yob.

[reds1869]

Looking at the list of birthdays makes me feel OLD and im a 1983 yob.

I know what you mean! It's the same feeling a I get when I think of Scott Rolen as "old" and realize that we're roughly the same age.

[Tony Cloninger]

I would like to know why the European countries get 13 entries into the WC but South America only 5 and the 5th one has to go through a playoff?

I am not just saying this beacuse of how well the South American teams have played but are the European team twice as good?

[Hoosier Red]

Well there are a lot more countries in Europe to begin with.
South America 5 out of 12 South American countries qualify, 13 out of 50 European countries qualify.

*Note I only went by wikianswers for how many countries each continent had. It's also important to note that countries like Israel also play in the European Federation, because group matches in middle eastern countries would be well messy.

[westofyou]

I would like to know why the European countries get 13 entries into the WC but South America only 5 and the 5th one has to go through a playoff?

I am not just saying this beacuse of how well the South American teams have played but are the European team twice as good?


This is from wiki

For each tournament, FIFA decides the number of places awarded to each of the continental zones beforehand, generally based on the relative strength of the confederations' teams.

[westofyou]

They played well, my contention is the USA needs a player of the stature of Donovan on the back line, since the games best players in the US tend to be placed in offensive positions the best players are not seeing the back line much, add in the back line players in the US probably see less offensive talent than the overseas guys and you end up having less impact players there, ala Roberto Carlos or Ferdinand. Nevertheless being one of the best 16 is a long way from the tournament no-shows of the past. Onyewu was missed for sure.

[Tony Cloninger]

Thanks Hoosier and WOY...... Maybe some of these South Americans countries should break up into about 4-5 countries... like Slovakia, Chez Republic did...and the about 20 countries that broke away from Mother Russia. :D

[oneupper]

Nevertheless being one of the best 16 is a long way from the tournament no-shows of the past.

I don't think it can be stressed enough how far the US Team has come and how fast. I've been watching World Cups since 1974. Back then, the US couldn't buy a place at the table (there was ONE Concacaf spot and it usually went to Mexico, although that year it went to Haiti of all countries).

Now the team can play "mano a mano" with the second tier European/South American teams and the better "rest of world" selections. No one is happy to see them slotted in their group. They actually WON their group this year, something they had never really done before (they did in 1930, but that wasn't much of a cup).

Improving from this point on is going to be a lot tougher and may not be possible in the short run (20 years) considering traditions and demographics, but this is not a bad place to be.

Take it, enjoy it, celebrate it. Good Job USA. You've come a long way, baby!

[Slyder]

Klose is the type of "kloser" the US needed in this cup.

[MWM]

Klose is the type of "kloser" the US needed in this cup.

Yep. He's been one of my favorite players over the past 8 years. Fun to watch.

That was one ugly goal given up by England... almost like some the US gives up. How in the world could they have such a opening on a goal kick? And the keeper played it about as bad as could have. He sort started to come out, then decided against it, then decided to go out again. He couldn't decided and was very tentative. It was as much on him as the defense, yet he gets up ad starts swearing and screaming at them. Poor form. He played it awfully.

[Slyder]

Yep. He's been one of my favorite players over the past 8 years. Fun to watch.

That was one ugly goal given up by England... almost like some the US gives up. How in the world could they have such a opening on a goal kick? And the keeper played it about as bad as could have. He sort started to come out, then decided against it, then decided to go out again. He couldn't decided and was very tentative. It was as much on him as the defense, yet he gets up ad starts swearing and screaming at them. Poor form. He played it awfully.

Thats why I believe aggressiveness in the back is a HUGE part of what seperates good from truely great goalies. If he comes out immediately its probably a non issue, at the very least he makes the shot harder for Klose by cutting off the angle and playing "big".

[MWM]

LOL @ England.... being totally outclassed by the Germans. And the second goal was also poorly played by the keeper, once again very tentative and indecisive.

[MWM]

Wow! England TOTALLY screwed. The officiating is going to wind up being the biggest story coming out of this cup.

I'm not in favor of instant replay generally, but to see if a goal went in or not, like in hockey, is worthwhile to implement.

[Reds Fanatic]

England was just robbed of the goal that should have tied it.

[RedsManRick]

Not able to watch. What happened on the no goal?

[Screwball]

Wow! England TOTALLY screwed. The officiating is going to wind up being the biggest story coming out of this cup.


I agree with Klinsman: "It's a disgrace."

[MWM]

Not able to watch. What happened on the no goal?

England shot a ball off the top goal post, it bounced inside the line by a few feet, then bounced up and hit the post again before the German keeper grabbed it. Refs didn't call it a goal. It was probably the worst missed call of the WC so far. Instead of a tie game, Germany is still up 2-1.

[MWM]

England should have stuck with Green. David James has been awful today.

[Reds Fanatic]

Germany is dominating England now 4-1.

[MWM]

England's defense has been awful today. All of these goals were fairly easy ones.

This is why I love watching Germany. They're second only to Brazil, and maybe Spain, at finishing.

[MWM]

I love listening to Klinsman. Sure wish we would have found a way to bring him into the US program.

[NJReds]

That awful decision against England that denied them of the second goal really altered this game. Germany's last two goals came on the counterattack when England was throwing all their players forward to get the tying goal that they really already had scored.

I don't understand why replay isn't an option. And if not replay, why not have officials stationed behind the goal.

[Tony Cloninger]

Or like they have a hockey? A light flashes when the ball crosses the plain. Or is that not an option at all? FIFA is right in line with the NCAA in regards to dragging their feet on the obvious problems.

[Betterread]

I was looking forward to a great game, continuing the rivalry. But Germany was a different class today from England. If you just saw today's game, you'd think Klose and Podolski were special, and Rooney was ordinary.
Podolski really blows my mind how well he performs in the WC and how utterly horrible he plays on the club level. He has been begging for playing time, from any team, in any league, for years.
Thomas Muller had the game of his life. He was a revelation. What is with the #13 for German strikers? The legacy is impressive.

[MWM]

Has Rooney ever played a good game in the WC? He lookedpretty bad today, bad crosses and shots all day, very lethargic. It's not like him, but he consistently plays poorly in the cup.

[NJReds]

Has Rooney ever played a good game in the WC? He lookedpretty bad today, bad crosses and shots all day, very lethargic. It's not like him, but he consistently plays poorly in the cup.

Rooney doesn't look like the same player since the ankle injury. He had an awful World Cup.

[reds1869]

Germany really look like they could go all the way. I never would have said that at the outset, but they look like a power for the next several World Cups.

[Screwball]

Germany really look like they could go all the way. I never would have said that at the outset, but they look like a power for the next several World Cups.

I really hope Argentina beats Mexico. An Argentine-German matchup in the quarters would be a legendary battle.

[improbus]

Rooney doesn't look like the same player since the ankle injury. He had an awful World Cup.

He also got no service. They don't have creative forces in the middle of the pitch. Instead, they have Lampard and Gerrard, who are more attackers than creators. Not a good tournament for England.

As for the Germans, Ozil is frightening and Muller was always in the right spot. They are very impressive. BTW, how strong does Ghana look now, keeping Germany to a 1-0 score line?

[NJReds]

He also got no service. They don't have creative forces in the middle of the pitch. Instead, they have Lampard and Gerrard, who are more attackers than creators. Not a good tournament for England.

Good point. The only time I really see Rooney play is with Manchester United. They obviously have a much better midfield.

[Yachtzee]

I was looking forward to a great game, continuing the rivalry. But Germany was a different class today from England. If you just saw today's game, you'd think Klose and Podolski were special, and Rooney was ordinary.
Podolski really blows my mind how well he performs in the WC and how utterly horrible he plays on the club level. He has been begging for playing time, from any team, in any league, for years.
Thomas Muller had the game of his life. He was a revelation. What is with the #13 for German strikers? The legacy is impressive.

I would love it if Klose or Podolski decided starting in the MLS would be better than riding the pines in the Bundesliga. I imagine they could command DP contracts and would be just as exciting to watch as some of the bigger names MLS teams have been chasing.

[dougdirt]

Mexico is about 6 inches away on two different shots from being up 2-0 10 minutes in on Argentina. Still 0-0 though.

[Oxilon]

That was offsides and it wasn't even close.

[WMR]

Visions of Claudio Reyna.

[Oxilon]

Argentina scores again on a turnover by Mexico infront of their own net.

On a side note, did anybody see the screen when the Argentina was celebrating. The cameraman accidentally hit a player in the head and player knocked the camera/camera guy over -- pretty funny stuff.

[KYRedsFan]

Man, some great great soccer today but continually the refs make the headlines with unbelievably bad calls.

[NJReds]

Man, some great great soccer today but continually the refs make the headlines with unbelievably bad calls.

Actually today it was the linesmen that have made the big errors. Really blatant offsides there, and there's no excuse for the linesman to miss that call. The ref even went to the linesman to confirm the call, but the guy stood by his first (wrong) call.

[paintmered]

I really hope Argentina beats Mexico. An Argentine-German matchup in the quarters would be a legendary battle.

It's just a shame that it would be a quarterfinal match and not the final.

[Betterread]

It's just a shame that it would be a quarterfinal match and not the final.
?? They're in the same bracket - they can't both be in the final.
It would be ideal if neither one gets there, I want to see Spain vrs. Brazil.

[WMR]

The future of Mexican football is bright.

[Yachtzee]

?? They're in the same bracket - they can't both be in the final.
It would be ideal if neither one gets there, I want to see Spain vrs. Brazil.

Really? Brazil has been rather disappointing this time around. Haven't been playing the beautiful game we're accustomed to when it comes to Brazilian soccer.

[WMR]

I really hope the USSF isn't content to give Bradley another 4 years. We have one of the richest soccer federations in the world, no reason not to have a top-flight international manager.

[Betterread]

Really? Brazil has been rather disappointing this time around. Haven't been playing the beautiful game we're accustomed to when it comes to Brazilian soccer.
Do you think Chile can beat them? If Brazil is eliminated, I hope Chile is the squad to do it. I love their style of play - they are fierce.

[Yachtzee]

Do you think Chile can beat them? If Brazil is eliminated, I hope Chile is the squad to do it. I love their style of play - they are fierce.

I hope so. I like the Chileans too. They're feisty. I'm really hoping we see two attacking teams make it to the finals. Nothing worse than seeing teams in the final match content to kick it around for 120+ minutes and settle it in a penalty shootout.

[Hoosier Red]

I really hope the USSF isn't content to give Bradley another 4 years. We have one of the richest soccer federations in the world, no reason not to have a top-flight international manager.

I've heard your criticisms of Bradley before WMR, but I'm curious did you not think he got the most out of this group of players?

Considering the fact that he has 3-4 players who could play on a top level EPL team, and a lot of other talented players who can at least make mid level tier 1 league rosters, the knockout round is about as far as one can expect.

I mean Howard plays for Everton, and I imagine could play for any top team. Same for Donovan. Same for Onyewu when healthy. Apparantly Michael Bradley wowed everyone in this tournament and a few champions league caliber teams will be bidding for him. But everyone else right now? I just don't see it.

Who else do you see as being able to play significant minutes on a championship caliber EPL or Leaugue 1 or La Liga team?

[MWM]

I'm not sure it's so cut and dry that Bradley got the most he could out of these players. This team played 4 games in the World Cup and only seemed really prepared and played well once. They played OK against England, bad against Slovenia, pretty good against Algeria, and pretty bad much of the game against Ghana.

You can't look at the result (getting to the elimination round) in a vacuum. In reality, they only played one top tier team in England, and as we saw in the Cup, England really isn't top tier anymore. They won one game. This team as is could have played a lot better than they did. Plus, he tinkered too much with the lineup. He should have stuck with what worked. Putting Ricardo Clark in THAT game was just dumb.

I don't think he did a bad job necessarily, but I'm not sure I believe the idea that he got the most out of this team. He might have done as well as HE could do. I don't think they played all that great in the cup. And they came out completely unprepared in the beginning of every game. That has to be on him. I'd still much rather have a legit international leader of the program.

[Hoosier Red]

I'm not sure it's so cut and dry that Bradley got the most he could out of these players. This team played 4 games in the World Cup and only seemed really prepared and played well once. They played OK against England, bad against Slovenia, pretty good against Algeria, and pretty bad much of the game against Ghana.

You can't look at the result (getting to the elimination round) in a vacuum. In reality, they only played one top tier team in England, and as we saw in the Cup, England really isn't top tier anymore. They won one game. This team as is could have played a lot better than they did. Plus, he tinkered too much with the lineup. He should have stuck with what worked. Putting Ricardo Clark in THAT game was just dumb.

I don't think he did a bad job necessarily, but I'm not sure I believe the idea that he got the most out of this team. He might have done as well as HE could do. I don't think they played all that great in the cup. And they came out completely unprepared in the beginning of every game. That has to be on him. I'd still much rather have a legit international leader of the program.

Those are fair criticisms, but the reality is getting to the knockout round is a decent accomplishment for this US team, and aside from the finishing, which I'm not sure what Bradley could do, the team played fairly well in all phases.

That much being said, I find it's usually a poor idea to carry a coach on for more than one WC cycle.

[SunDeck]

Just heard what Klinsman said about US soccer. Although it was inelegantly put, with some vague ramblings about the "lower classes", his point is that the US does things the opposite way from the rest of the world. Here, we pay to have our kids play on the best teams to get college scholarships. In the rest of the world, superstars emerge from the poorest neighborhoods and soccer is a way to become rich. He compared soccer worldwide to the NBA- and this is the part he did not state very well, or at least in a politically correct way- where kids from the lower classes see pro basketball as a way out of the ghetto.

I see his point though, in the US Soccer is still not a game played by the masses who have hopes of playing pro. Of course, he didn't mention anything about possibly coaching for the US in 2014.

[MWM]

I listened to Klinsman as well. I think he's saying what a lot of people have been saying for a couple of decades. The only way USA soccer gets to a level on par with the rest of the powerhouses is to have more of the best athletes in he country consider soccer a real alternative to other sports at a young age. Not all of them, but some of them.

We consistently have the best sprinters in the world. If the youth of inner city america started playing soccer regularly, AND YOUNG, the US could be as good as anyone. I don't think they could ever dominate, but they could be a legit threat every cup. Can you imagine if Ladanian Tomlinson, Marshall Faulk, or Chris Johnson started kicking the ball when they were 5 years old and played soccer instead of football? They could outrun any team out there.

Klisman was also trying to be as diplomatic as possible when Tirico asked for his honest opinion about the caliber of the players on the US team. He tried to be nice, but he basically said they just aren't as good technically, and by technically he means first touch. That's the thing that always sticks out to me when I watch the US versus other nations. Our first touch is awful and seems so routine for everyone else. the US plays a reactionary game no knowing what they're going to do with it one they get it. the good nations play much more anticipatory. They know where their teammates and what they're doing with the ball before they get it.

[improbus]

Some things about the US team in retrospect.
1) Our problem for 20 years has been finishing. Imagine our team with Higuain finishing off chances.
2) Jay Demeritt. I love his heart, but he is not a World Cup central defender. Our backline without a healthy Gooch was too small and unathletic to handle the fast-break potential of Ghana (same goes for England vs. Germany).
3) Howard was very average after the England game. He was not at fault for any of the goals, but he certainly wasn't "standing on his head" to use hockey terms.
4) The whole "giving up a quick goal" problem is one that we have to put on Bradley to a certain degree. He has to have the team ready to go from the whistle. For it to happen once is excuseable, but it happened numerous times.

[Yachtzee]

Whenever someone says something about the US not having the best athletes, I just have to laugh. The USMNT already has some of the most athletic and best conditioned soccer players in the world. We can run with just about anyone. The problem is that our players lack the technical skill and creativity that you see from players on the top national teams. Of course not every country has those guys either. The US is at about the same level as other second-tier countries. We're no longer the easy pickings we once were and, like many African and South American teams, most of our team plays in Europe. We don't have a Messi or Tevez or Luis Fabiano, but who does?

If you want to talk about improving techique and creativity, we're already seeing it at the youth level, where more coaches are getting trained and licensed instead of just being dads who know more about baseball and football than soccer. Practices are becoming more play-focused than oriented toward rote drilling. I think the best thing is that more young talent is finding its way into academies and reserve teams for pro clubs rather than relying on the traditional high school-college development pipeline. Making the way to World Cup contender doesn't happen overnight. I think we're on the right path though. It was less than 20 years ago when our team was mostly college kids and our best players were either naturalized citizens or the offspring of US servicemen raised abroad.

[WMR]

Bradley ended up doing okay, much better than I expected, but in the end his tactics and decision-making are not world-class.

The US program has seen an unbelievable growth rate in the past 20 years. I might equate it to growing from a Single A team to the Major Leagues.

We will be serious contenders/challengers for a WC in my lifetime.

[improbus]

Bradley ended up doing okay, much better than I expected, but in the end his tactics and decision-making are not world-class.

The US program has seen an unbelievable growth rate in the past 20 years. I might equate it to growing from a Single A team to the Major Leagues.

We will be serious contenders/challengers for a WC in my lifetime.
Man, do I hope you're right. But, I agree on the progress we have made. Really, you can just look at it from the clubs our guys play for. In 1990, they were college kids. By 1998, we had our own league and were starting to send a few players abroad (like Reyna and Keller). Now, we have a guy at AC Milan, two at Rangers, and big names are looking at Donovan and Bradley. It can only go up from here.

[NJReds]

Man, do I hope you're right. But, I agree on the progress we have made. Really, you can just look at it from the clubs our guys play for. In 1990, they were college kids. By 1998, we had our own league and were starting to send a few players abroad (like Reyna and Keller). Now, we have a guy at AC Milan, two at Rangers, and big names are looking at Donovan and Bradley. It can only go up from here.

I'd love to start to see some of the u21 guys start to get some playing time, particularly on the back line.

And somehow I think they have to try and get Adu into the fold. He's been a disappointment, but at the U21 World Cup (or whatever tournament that was a couple years ago) he and Altidore were amazing. He's got to find a club where he'll get significant time on the fileld, even if it's back at MLS.

[NJReds]

Robben scores to give Holland a 1-0 lead. Getting him back was huge for the Orange. He's a tremendous, if underrated, striker.

[Hoosier Red]

I think it's important to keep some perspective on Adu as well.

At age 21, Clint Dempsey was playing for Furman University. Carlos Bocanegra went through 4 years at UCLA before starting his pro career.
Landon Donovan was loaned back to MLS because of a disasterous spell in Germany where he got almost no playing time.

If you take away the prodigy thought of Adu, a guy getting some playing time with a second level European squad at age 21 is not the worst thing in the world. He'll still have 2 full World Cup runs is my guess.

[NJReds]

I think it's important to keep some perspective on Adu as well.

At age 21, Clint Dempsey was playing for Furman University. Carlos Bocanegra went through 4 years at UCLA before starting his pro career.
Landon Donovan was loaned back to MLS because of a disasterous spell in Germany where he got almost no playing time.

If you take away the prodigy thought of Adu, a guy getting some playing time with a second level European squad at age 21 is not the worst thing in the world. He'll still have 2 full World Cup runs is my guess.

That's my thought. Big soccer powers like Brazil and Argentina can give up on potential stars that don't shine right away because of the depth of their pool of talent.

The US doesn't have that luxury.

[NJReds]

Bradley ended up doing okay, much better than I expected, but in the end his tactics and decision-making are not world-class.

The US program has seen an unbelievable growth rate in the past 20 years. I might equate it to growing from a Single A team to the Major Leagues.

We will be serious contenders/challengers for a WC in my lifetime.


I'm not enamored with Bradley, either. But I think he got a lot out of the guys and they perform well for him. The program has grown during his tenure.

He was also dealt two big blows:

- Onweyu not being in form
- Davies injury

With a fit Onweyu and Davies, it's very likely that this team is still playing.

[Hoosier Red]

I'm not enamored with Bradley, either. But I think he got a lot out of the guys and they perform well for him. The program has grown during his tenure.

He was also dealt two big blows:

- Onweyu not being in form
- Davies injury

With a fit Onweyu and Davies, it's very likely that this team is still playing.

I agree with this too. Every squad has injuries, but the US was just not nearly deep enough to overcome them. There's no doubt in my mind Davies finishes the two golden chances that Findlay missed out on.

[Chip R]

I listened to Klinsman as well. I think he's saying what a lot of people have been saying for a couple of decades. The only way USA soccer gets to a level on par with the rest of the powerhouses is to have more of the best athletes in he country consider soccer a real alternative to other sports at a young age. Not all of them, but some of them.

We consistently have the best sprinters in the world. If the youth of inner city america started playing soccer regularly, AND YOUNG, the US could be as good as anyone. I don't think they could ever dominate, but they could be a legit threat every cup. Can you imagine if Ladanian Tomlinson, Marshall Faulk, or Chris Johnson started kicking the ball when they were 5 years old and played soccer instead of football? They could outrun any team out there.


Well put. The problem with our best young athletes not going to/staying with soccer is, I believe, that the best league in the world is in Europe and not in the U.S. Baseball, football (although no other country really plays football besides the U.S.) basketball and even hockey have the best leagues in the U.S. Kids can watch their favorite players on TV all the time and even go to their games. Sure they have MLS here but aside from a few players, the best go to Europe. I know ESPN and other networks are taking more of an interest in soccer but that may not last after the World Cup. And even if it does, it's not on free TV.

I also believe that American players - for the most part - are looked upon as, at best, Johnny Come Latelys and at worst, second class citizens. If I had a son who had the ability to play pro soccer in Europe, I don't know if I'd want to see him looked upon like that. Kind of like how European players are seen here in the NBA and the NHL. The tag on them is that they are finesse players and soft. A lot of media, fans and front office people also believe that it's tough to judge how young European players will fit in at the highest level. I would think the same is true for American players who play in Europe.

Finally, as we all know, soccer is seen by the American public as a secondary sport. It's not NASCAR and it's not one of the 4 major sports. Whereas in Europe and South America, soccer is king. It is awful difficult to convince kids to play a sport that is, for the most part, not seen as that important in this country.

[bucksfan2]

I agree with this too. Every squad has injuries, but the US was just not nearly deep enough to overcome them. There's no doubt in my mind Davies finishes the two golden chances that Findlay missed out on.

Findlay was a problem. I am not sure why Bradley kept inserting him into the games, but I think he was the only one who possessed that break away speed. He reminded me a lot of Ted Ginn in football. Great physical assets but he just couldn't apply them to the field.

I was really impressed with Feilhaber and Bradley. I am not sure why Feilhaber wasn't starting because he deserved to do so. I wonder if he just didn't have the endurance to play 90 minutes at altitude. The Rico Clark inserting was puzzling as well. I don't know what Bradley was thinking but I am sure he was hoping for something. It was a shame that he had to use a sub so early in the game.

[Roy Tucker]

Some interesting WC article through the years at SI...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/magazine/05/21/si.world.cup.coverage/index.html?eref=sihp

[Hoosier Red]

Findlay was a problem. I am not sure why Bradley kept inserting him into the games, but I think he was the only one who possessed that break away speed. He reminded me a lot of Ted Ginn in football. Great physical assets but he just couldn't apply them to the field.

I was really impressed with Feilhaber and Bradley. I am not sure why Feilhaber wasn't starting because he deserved to do so. I wonder if he just didn't have the endurance to play 90 minutes at altitude. The Rico Clark inserting was puzzling as well. I don't know what Bradley was thinking but I am sure he was hoping for something. It was a shame that he had to use a sub so early in the game.


Clark looks like a disaster in hindsight and it was certainly the most questionable move he made all tournament but I can see the method to the madness.
The idea was Clark was a better defender and had fresher legs than Edu. The second may have been true, but I've never seen any evidence Clark is a better defender.

Using the sub early sucked, but in reality it didn't matter. Clark was getting subbed out for Edu at some point, and the moment they went down 1-0 it became much more necessary so it's not like they had to use a sub they otherwise wouldn't have.

[Yachtzee]

Well put. The problem with our best young athletes not going to/staying with soccer is, I believe, that the best league in the world is in Europe and not in the U.S. Baseball, football (although no other country really plays football besides the U.S.) basketball and even hockey have the best leagues in the U.S. Kids can watch their favorite players on TV all the time and even go to their games. Sure they have MLS here but aside from a few players, the best go to Europe. I know ESPN and other networks are taking more of an interest in soccer but that may not last after the World Cup. And even if it does, it's not on free TV.

I also believe that American players - for the most part - are looked upon as, at best, Johnny Come Latelys and at worst, second class citizens. If I had a son who had the ability to play pro soccer in Europe, I don't know if I'd want to see him looked upon like that. Kind of like how European players are seen here in the NBA and the NHL. The tag on them is that they are finesse players and soft. A lot of media, fans and front office people also believe that it's tough to judge how young European players will fit in at the highest level. I would think the same is true for American players who play in Europe.

Finally, as we all know, soccer is seen by the American public as a secondary sport. It's not NASCAR and it's not one of the 4 major sports. Whereas in Europe and South America, soccer is king. It is awful difficult to convince kids to play a sport that is, for the most part, not seen as that important in this country.

I have never bought this argument for one minute. Why? Look no further than the Olympics. The US dominates in the Olympics, both Winter and Summer games, in sports which have little to no media coverage outside Olympic years. We are one of the best countries in the world at producing athletes. We have great swimmer, gymnasts, speedskaters, track stars, figure skaters, etc. Why? Because for most sports we have the greatest training facilities and more funding than most other countries. The only major international sport where that hasn't been true is soccer. In decades past, US had very little money going into soccer. It was only since 1994 that we've seen money put into the training and development of soccer players. I don't expect us to win a World Cup in my lifetime. Not when countries like Spain and the Netherlands are still trying for their first. However, I do believe we will see American players with the talent and ability to make winning it a real possibility.

When it comes to the matters of kids choosing other sports over soccer, I never saw it that much when I was in school. Most of the kids who were good at other sports just weren't right for soccer. Soccer just isn't the best sport for big muscular dudes. They can't run the five to six miles a game expected of good soccer players. If you can't make it 90 minutes, you won't make it far. Most of the best soccer players I knew didn't drift to other sports. They just quit playing once they reached the point where they had no more opportunity to play. Of course that was in the '80s when there was no MLS and Europe had no respect for our college kids (most European Leagues had few foreigners to begin with).

[bucksfan2]

Clark looks like a disaster in hindsight and it was certainly the most questionable move he made all tournament but I can see the method to the madness.
The idea was Clark was a better defender and had fresher legs than Edu. The second may have been true, but I've never seen any evidence Clark is a better defender.

I think the most questionable move was Findlay. He really did little on the field but look fast. He has a couple of opportunities to finish but didn't. From my amateur eyes Findlay was ill-suited to play against that level of competition. I know Bradley wanted speed, but functional speed would have been much nicer.


Using the sub early sucked, but in reality it didn't matter. Clark was getting subbed out for Edu at some point, and the moment they went down 1-0 it became much more necessary so it's not like they had to use a sub they otherwise wouldn't have.

If that was true, I don't doubt that it was, it would have been nice if Clark would have lasted more than 20 or so minutes. Subbing Edu in so early was very similar to him starting the game. He was gassed as well as every other American on the pitch in OT.

All and all I don't know enough about the American players to really have an opinion one way or the other.

[Yachtzee]

As far as Americans being too soft or being finesse players, my experience has been the opposite. Playing pickup games overseas, we Americans were always chided for being too physical because we were good at using our upper bodies to gain position and knock guys off the ball. Our general weakness was our lack of strong footskills and poor first touches. The British guys liked our style, but the guys from other countries would yell at us to stop playing "American Football."

[MWM]

I have never bought this argument for one minute. Why? Look no further than the Olympics. The US dominates in the Olympics, both Winter and Summer games, in sports which have little to no media coverage outside Olympic years. We are one of the best countries in the world at producing athletes. We have great swimmer, gymnasts, speedskaters, track stars, figure skaters, etc. Why? Because for most sports we have the greatest training facilities and more funding than most other countries. The only major international sport where that hasn't been true is soccer. In decades past, US had very little money going into soccer. It was only since 1994 that we've seen money put into the training and development of soccer players. I don't expect us to win a World Cup in my lifetime. Not when countries like Spain and the Netherlands are still trying for their first. However, I do believe we will see American players with the talent and ability to make winning it a real possibility.


I think the big difference with soccer is that most of the rest of the world has it as their #1 sport and it's so much a part of the culture, it's like baseball, basketball, and football combined. EVERYONE wants to play soccer there, while even here you have it split between the big 3. So while we may dominate Olympic sports overall, most of the soccer nations really don't care much about those, at least less than we do.

I also disagree with your assertion that the US athletes on the MNT are just as good as the other strong nations. I don't know that there's any quantitative data that says so, but I just don't see it. When I see the guys playing for Germany, Italy, Spain, Brazil, Argentina they look a lot different than our guys, and I'm not talking about technical skills. I think they're just better athletes as they are the best those countries have to offer. We have no one who looks anything like Miroslav Klose or Michael Ballack on our team. Where I see athletes on par with those guys is in the backfields and defensive backfields in the NFL. And some of them are in MLB.

I think there are exceptions. For instance, I look at Jozy and see a legit athlete, not just a good soccer player. And to a lesser degree Clint Dempsey and Michael Bradley. There have been others, but I think they are the exceptions rather the the norm. At least that's my perception.

[improbus]

I think the big difference with soccer is that most of the rest of the world has it as their #1 sport and it's so much a part of the culture, it's like baseball, basketball, and football combined. EVERYONE wants to play soccer there, while even here you have it split between the big 3. So while we may dominate Olympic sports overall, most of the soccer nations really don't care much about those, at least less than we do.

I also disagree with your assertion that the US athletes on the MNT are just as good as the other strong nations. I don't know that there's any quantitative data that says so, but I just don't see it. When I see the guys playing for Germany, Italy, Spain, Brazil, Argentina they look a lot different than our guys, and I'm not talking about technical skills. I think they're just better athletes as they are the best those countries have to offer. We have no one who looks anything like Miroslav Klose or Michael Ballack on our team. Where I see athletes on par with those guys is in the backfields and defensive backfields in the NFL. And some of them are in MLB.

I think there are exceptions. For instance, I look at Jozy and see a legit athlete, not just a good soccer player. And to a lesser degree Clint Dempsey and Michael Bradley. There have been others, but I think they are the exceptions rather the the norm. At least that's my perception.

I agree 100%.

[westofyou]

I've played a lot of European and Latin players as an adult at Stanford, all ages, the first touch notation is true, the US guys are weaker on the ball handling skills.

Still the US has come a long way since this

http://tshf.net/2002images/kyle-rote-action.jpg

[Betterread]

Dutch and Brazilian soccer development are two opposite poles of the soccer development debate. For years, British and German influences on US soccer were predominant and only recently have they been moved aside as US talent developers have looked to the Dutch and Brazilian models.
The biggest problem with development: players that waste time playing soccer in college. College soccer is a waste of time.
I am seeing great progress of the ability of youth players all the way through to the US national team.
Soccer is improving, by leaps and bound but winning the world cup is not a realistic goal for the US. Not yet.
Just like it's not a realistic goal for Germany or England either.

Here is an interesting article on Ajax and their development approach.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?ref=magazine

[Chip R]

As far as Americans being too soft or being finesse players, my experience has been the opposite. Playing pickup games overseas, we Americans were always chided for being too physical because we were good at using our upper bodies to gain position and knock guys off the ball. Our general weakness was our lack of strong footskills and poor first touches. The British guys liked our style, but the guys from other countries would yell at us to stop playing "American Football."


I didn't mean to infer that American players were soft or finesse players. What I said was that when Euro players came over to the U.S. to play basketball and hockey, they were regarded as soft and looked down on by the basketball and hockey cognoscenti. My point was that U.S. players may be looked down on by the soccer cognoscenti in Europe because they are American players. I have no idea why they see American players as second class players but I'm sure there is some stereotype out there.

[Betterread]

I didn't mean to infer that American players were soft or finesse players. What I said was that when Euro players came over to the U.S. to play basketball and hockey, they were regarded as soft and looked down on by the basketball and hockey cognoscenti. My point was that U.S. players may be looked down on by the soccer cognoscenti in Europe because they are American players. I have no idea why they see American players as second class players but I'm sure there is some stereotype out there.
Whatever stereotypes there are, players are judged by how they look in training. In soccer, training is more frequent (every day) than american pro sports and more important to playing time. What is unique about soccer compared to US pro team sports is the lack of respect for reputations and fame. If you don't train well, and another player trains better, you will sit on the bench. If this happens repeatedly, you have to win respect. Look at Brazil's national team and all the stars that weren't selected. The US didn't do it that way: Onyewu was selected even though he was obviously out of shape and out of form.

[Cedric]

Whatever stereotypes there are, players are judged by how they look in training. In soccer, training is more frequent (every day) than american pro sports and more important to playing time. What is unique about soccer compared to US pro team sports is the lack of respect for reputations and fame. If you don't train well, and another player trains better, you will sit on the bench. If this happens repeatedly, you have to win respect. Look at Brazil's national team and all the stars that weren't selected. The US didn't do it that way: Onyewu was selected even though he was obviously out of shape and out of form.

Onyewu was selected because we don't have anywhere near the depth or talent of Brazil.

Isn't that obvious? Brazil has the ability to pick superstars based on how they are training, we don't have that ability.

[Cedric]

As far as Americans being too soft or being finesse players, my experience has been the opposite. Playing pickup games overseas, we Americans were always chided for being too physical because we were good at using our upper bodies to gain position and knock guys off the ball. Our general weakness was our lack of strong footskills and poor first touches. The British guys liked our style, but the guys from other countries would yell at us to stop playing "American Football."

You are 110% right. Supposedly we have no technical players and no athletes hardly and yet we still have a damn good international team?

If we have no technical skill and supposedly bad athletes than how are we competing? You don't beat Spain and compete with England and Brazil without being athletic. And you certainly don't do that with the lack of technical ability the US has without being great athletes.

Most all analysts agree that the US is winning now because of our overall fitness and athleticism. This argument about pure athletic ability is odd at best.

Edu, Bradley, Bocanegra, Donovan, Dempsey, Altidore, Onyewu, are incredibly fit and athletic. The tactical awareness and technical ability of the US team is way more of a problem than fitness. We are known to have the most athletic/fit team in almost any game we play.

[SunDeck]

As far as Americans being too soft or being finesse players, my experience has been the opposite. Playing pickup games overseas, we Americans were always chided for being too physical because we were good at using our upper bodies to gain position and knock guys off the ball. Our general weakness was our lack of strong footskills and poor first touches. The British guys liked our style, but the guys from other countries would yell at us to stop playing "American Football."

My generally impression, having also played with a lot of international students is not necessarily the same. Frankly, we are just not as in tune with the game as they are. The best example from my memory was a 50 year old Econ professor I used to play with here in Bloomington, who said he was just a run of the mill recreational player in Germany. But the thing I noticed about him was that he was never winded, always seemed to be in the correct position and often looked as though he was a mental step ahead of the American players. The South Americans by far were the most enjoyable to play with; they always seemed to put the ball into a creative place that didn't occur to me. Africans usually just blew by me with quicker footwork.

What they all had in common seemed to be a better feel for the game. We Americans, despite maybe having good technical skills just played slower. We didn't see space until it was there, whereas the international players saw where space would develop. The result were more fouls, or seemingly playing more physically because our pacing was slower and clumsy compared to them. They might interpret it as playing some kind of "american football", but it always seemed to me that we just didn't have the game in our bones like they did. Playing with them made me a hugely better player, I only wish I had my 21 year old legs again.

[NJReds]

According to this NY Times blog post (http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/28/new-record-for-spanish-language-tv-in-u-s/), soccer on TV in the US doing quite well, especially when you take into account people watching Spanish language broadcasts:



During Monday’s Brazil-Chile game, the Univision play-by-play announcer Pablo Ramírez broke the news that Sunday’s Argentina-Mexico match drew 9.36 million viewers to the network — the biggest audience for any Spanish-language program, sports or otherwise, in the history of television in the United States.


Univision’s U.S.-Ghana audience, when added to the 14.86 million who watched the game on ABC, made for a total American audience of 19.37 million.


News sources are reporting that U.S.-Ghana is the fourth-most-watched soccer game ever in the United States — after the 1999 Women’s World Cup final, the 1994 men’s final between Brazil and Italy and the 1994 U.S.-Brazil second-round game — but those older figures do not take into account Spanish-language audiences.

[Betterread]

Brazil: Chile was a huge historical match and, next to Brazil: Argentina, a matchup of SA powers. Brazil totally dominated on defense and on the counter attack, displaying that they don't need to control possession to win. They did have a lot of possession, anyway, but Chile really tried hard to limit their space. It didn't matter for Brazil. Impressive preformance.

[Hoosier Red]

My generally impression, having also played with a lot of international students is not necessarily the same. Frankly, we are just not as in tune with the game as they are. The best example from my memory was a 50 year old Econ professor I used to play with here in Bloomington, who said he was just a run of the mill recreational player in Germany. But the thing I noticed about him was that he was never winded, always seemed to be in the correct position and often looked as though he was a mental step ahead of the American players. The South Americans by far were the most enjoyable to play with; they always seemed to put the ball into a creative place that didn't occur to me. Africans usually just blew by me with quicker footwork.

What they all had in common seemed to be a better feel for the game. We Americans, despite maybe having good technical skills just played slower. We didn't see space until it was there, whereas the international players saw where space would develop. The result were more fouls, or seemingly playing more physically because our pacing was slower and clumsy compared to them. They might interpret it as playing some kind of "american football", but it always seemed to me that we just didn't have the game in our bones like they did. Playing with them made me a hugely better player, I only wish I had my 21 year old legs again.

I think that all translates into technical skills though doesn't it? Even skilled Americans essentially see a pass coming and think, "okay trap the ball, now head up, look for someone open."

Whereas many Europeans have all these skills so ingrained that they're thinking as the pass is coming in they're thinking, "As this ball gets to me, #6 will be breaking past the defender, if I can send a touch pass at the proper angle I should be able to slip it to him."

This goes past just simply being technically better. When the players are able to do all this without having to think about it, the confidence on the pitch spreads the technical ability even further. Because the US players are essentially thinking, they're inclined to play to not make a mistake. Because the foreign players are essentially feeling as the game goes on, they can play more aggressively.

[SunDeck]

I have always thought of technical skills having more to do with what one can do with his feet, head, dribbling, evasive moves, etc. Comparatively, a person could become a great hitter, but still lack a real good baseball sense. In my soccer prime, I played well with both feet, I could juggle a ball until I got tired of it, I could pass most defenders, but compared to the international guys I played with, I wasn't as mentally aware of subtleties and nuance. It's hard to explain, but it seemed so obvious as I played with them. Anyway, the description that the international players "feel" the game is probably close to what I'm trying to say.

[MWM]

No one said they were bad athletes. They're just not premier ones, among the best a nation can produce. But to think they're on par with the great soccer nations in athleticism is way off, IMO. Again, when I look at the German or Spanish team, the differences in the players goes far beyond technical skill.

[Chip R]

Paraguay advances over Japan in penalty kicks.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Paraguay advances over Japan in penalty kicks.

I'm not soccer purist or anything like that, but I don't like games ending that way.

Maybe see it go to a golden goal after the first 30 minutes or perhaps move the PKs back to the 18 to give the goalie a bit more of a chance.

[texasdave]

How about a 3 on 3 from the mid-field line until one team scores and the other team doesn't? Or maybe they could do it five times each and add up the goals. One team's three best offensive players take the ball against the other team's two best defenders plus the goalie. I like it.

[Chip R]

I'm not soccer purist or anything like that, but I don't like games ending that way.

Maybe see it go to a golden goal after the first 30 minutes or perhaps move the PKs back to the 18 to give the goalie a bit more of a chance.

I know but they used to have sudden death OT but did away with it. If they don't do penalty kicks and don't have sudden death OT, the game goes on and on and on. I must admit PKs are very dramatic but it's akin to using field goals to decide a winner in football. I do get the feeling that some teams just play for PKs instead of trying to win in regulation and OT.

[SunDeck]

I do get the feeling that some teams just play for PKs instead of trying to win in regulation and OT.

And that's why we hate it. However, the curious thing I've found is that FIFA doesn't think like we do. By our (American) logic, it is not right that an inferior team, knowing they cannot win against a stronger opponent should have this loophole which encourages them to pack in the box, play for a tie and hope to win on the coin toss that is penalty kicks. By FIFA's logic, that's a legitimate strategy. They love the imperfections and ridiculous contradictions of the game.

[NJReds]

By our (American) logic, it is not right that an inferior team, knowing they cannot win against a stronger opponent should have this loophole which encourages them to pack in the box, play for a tie and hope to win on the coin toss that is penalty kicks.

Odd thing is that today's game was between two pretty evenly matched teams. I didn't see the game, but heard from those who watched that Paraguay didn't start playing until the OT.

It's not just American logic. I know many soccer fans from overseas that also hate PKs.

I think they should keep playing OT as well, allowing an extra substitution for each 15 minute period (those against playing extra time say that fatigue is a problem). Use the roster and play until you have a winner. Especially for the final.

[Hoosier Red]

Odd thing is that today's game was between two pretty evenly matched teams. I didn't see the game, but heard from those who watched that Paraguay didn't start playing until the OT.

It's not just American logic. I know many soccer fans from overseas that also hate PKs.

I think they should keep playing OT as well, allowing an extra substitution for each 15 minute period (those against playing extra time say that fatigue is a problem). Use the roster and play until you have a winner. Especially for the final.

On a totally unrelated note, the NCAA used to do this. My senior year at IU, the two semifinal games each went 4 overtimes. 90 minutes plus 4 more 20 minute periods.

That was an ugly final the following Sunday.

[SunDeck]

Odd thing is that today's game was between two pretty evenly matched teams. I didn't see the game, but heard from those who watched that Paraguay didn't start playing until the OT.

It's not just American logic. I know many soccer fans from overseas that also hate PKs.



Possibly true, I should clarify that I'm talking about the bizarro world of FIFA.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Portugal Spain has been a pretty entertaining game so far. Just before half and no score, but lots of chances. Portugal has mostly outplayed Spain, but Spain has had about three really solid chances including two right at the very start.

[NJReds]

Possibly true, I should clarify that I'm talking about the bizarro world of FIFA.

The older international fans that I know like the old way of solving a tie ... with a replay.

The networks would love that.

[SunDeck]

The older international fans that I know like the old way of solving a tie ... with a replay.

The networks would love that.

The very next day, like the US Open.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Spain wins 1-0 and played very well in the 2nd half.

And according to the broadcast the USA is the only group winner to not advance to the next round. sigh.

[Roy Tucker]

Back when I coached my daughter's SAY team, a playoff game would go 15 minutes regular overtime and then 15 minutes without goalies. After that, they did PKs.

Playing without a goalie gets pretty crazy. We had a game that made it through to PKs (and we lost) but I lost 5 years off my life in that 15 minutes without goalies.

[Yachtzee]

Dutch and Brazilian soccer development are two opposite poles of the soccer development debate. For years, British and German influences on US soccer were predominant and only recently have they been moved aside as US talent developers have looked to the Dutch and Brazilian models.
The biggest problem with development: players that waste time playing soccer in college. College soccer is a waste of time.
I am seeing great progress of the ability of youth players all the way through to the US national team.
Soccer is improving, by leaps and bound but winning the world cup is not a realistic goal for the US. Not yet.
Just like it's not a realistic goal for Germany or England either.

Here is an interesting article on Ajax and their development approach.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html?ref=magazine

We have a few youth clubs around here that state in their literature that they follow the Dutch model for youth training.

As far as college soccer goes, I see that as more of an avenue for late bloomers, talent-wise. Great youth player here are starting to garner interest from scouts at the youth travel level. I foresee a time when most of the talent has moved to pro development academies, reserve squads and USL sides before they reach college age. But they'll still scout college soccer to find those who slip through the cracks. Plus, some schools have been good at attracting foreign talent with the promise of an American college degree.

[Yachtzee]

My generally impression, having also played with a lot of international students is not necessarily the same. Frankly, we are just not as in tune with the game as they are. The best example from my memory was a 50 year old Econ professor I used to play with here in Bloomington, who said he was just a run of the mill recreational player in Germany. But the thing I noticed about him was that he was never winded, always seemed to be in the correct position and often looked as though he was a mental step ahead of the American players. The South Americans by far were the most enjoyable to play with; they always seemed to put the ball into a creative place that didn't occur to me. Africans usually just blew by me with quicker footwork.

What they all had in common seemed to be a better feel for the game. We Americans, despite maybe having good technical skills just played slower. We didn't see space until it was there, whereas the international players saw where space would develop. The result were more fouls, or seemingly playing more physically because our pacing was slower and clumsy compared to them. They might interpret it as playing some kind of "american football", but it always seemed to me that we just didn't have the game in our bones like they did. Playing with them made me a hugely better player, I only wish I had my 21 year old legs again.

I wouldn't necessarily attribute the econ professor's skill to athleticism as much as to better soccer "intelligence." He probably never got winded because I'm guessing he was rarely in the wrong place. It's like the difference between a centerfielder who can make great plays because he knows where to be vs. one who has to hustle to make the same play because of bad positioning.

One thing I find promising these days is that the kids on my son's U8 team are learning stuff today that I didn't learn until high school back in the '80s.

[westofyou]

Spain wins 1-0 and played very well in the 2nd half.



I taped this game, I hear 10 spanish players had more touches than Ronaldo (34) he and Rooney didn't enhance their images very well on the world stage.

[NJReds]

I taped this game, I hear 10 spanish players had more touches than Ronaldo (34) he and Rooney didn't enhance their images very well on the world stage.

The players featured in the Nike "write the future" commercial didn't fare too well:
Cannavaro
Rooney
Ronaldinho (didn't even make the squad)
Ronaldo

[Yachtzee]

The players featured in the Nike "write the future" commercial didn't fare too well:
Cannavaro
Rooney
Ronaldinho (didn't even make the squad)
Ronaldo

Kind of like their Dan vs. Dave campaign they did for the Olympics quite a while back.

[Cedric]

Kind of like their Dan vs. Dave campaign they did for the Olympics quite a while back.

I think that was Reebok ha.

[Chip R]

I think that was Reebok ha.

I think you are right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_%26_Dave

[Chip R]

FIFA sacked more refs from the World Cup including the guy who blew the English goal against Germany and the guy who gave Kaka a red card.

[Slyder]

FIFA sacked more refs from the World Cup including the guy who blew the English goal against Germany and the guy who gave Kaka a red card.

One of the FIFA representatives said that they would look into goalline technology, that would be a good assistant to the referee and allow the side judge to stay with offsides or the play and not have to worry about being in a position to call a goal.

[Yachtzee]

Okay, I am now officially pulling for the Germans hardcore, because they have the best South Park-inspired music video for the World Cup.

YouTube - Basta's gimme hope joachim - new version - english subtitle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t9TogmkLkk)

[Yachtzee]

Anyone watching Brazil-Netherlands? I checked the score @ work and it was 0-1 Brazil. Just got home in time to see the Dutch go up 2-1. Now Felipe Melo has been sent off, straight red. Game is getting chippy.

[bucksfan2]

Anyone watching Brazil-Netherlands? I checked the score @ work and it was 0-1 Brazil. Just got home in time to see the Dutch go up 2-1. Now Felipe Melo has been sent off, straight red. Game is getting chippy.

Watching it now. Brazil is in full court press mode but the Dutch have an extra player.

[Yachtzee]

Brazil falls to the Dutch, 2-1.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Wow. The Dutch take out Brazil. The 2nd goal was beautiful.
Melo got a red in the 72nd minute. He fouled Robben and then stepped on him on accident, but it did look bad.

[reds1869]

I wish those two teams could play 100 times. That is what the beautiful game is all about--and I suspect that nine times out of ten the action would be even better.

[Yachtzee]

Wow. The Dutch take out Brazil. The 2nd goal was beautiful.
Melo got a red in the 72nd minute. He fouled Robben and then stepped on him on accident, but it did look bad.

I don't know about an accidednt. Have to see the replay again but Brazil definitely lost their cool after the second goal. Of course Van Bommel was lucky to escape without a card too.

[westofyou]

What a great game that was, and due to my DTV being out, I watched on my PC and it still was great.

[Chip R]

I watched the last part of the first half and came back in a little bit after the equalizer. Very good game.

[improbus]

I would have stomped on Robben too. He is a great player, but his rolling on the ground was embarassing.

Brazil struggled without having a true playmaker. They could have really used Ronaldinho's one on one ability.

[Yachtzee]

I would have stomped on Robben too. He is a great player, but his rolling on the ground was embarassing.

Brazil struggled without having a true playmaker. They could have really used Ronaldinho's one on one ability.

What I love about the foreign analysts was that they could talk about what a great game it was, but still call out Robben for hitting the deck too much. Steve McManaman certainly wasn't pleased. I wish they could have a Soccer Tonight show with Macca, Gullit and Klinsman as Analysts. Roberto Martinez(?) is great too, but he still has his day job at Wigan.

[improbus]

I hate to say this, but I'm seeing more open play and skill in the Ghana/Uruguay game than in the Brazil/Netherlands game. End to end stuff. No diving, just solid stuff.

[Yachtzee]

Wow. Ghana goes up 1-0 at the half. Maybe some of the American pundits who thought we should have beaten Ghana might change their tune.

[improbus]

Wow. Ghana goes up 1-0 at the half. Maybe some of the American pundits who thought we should have beaten Ghana might change their tune.
The difference in the two games today has been goal-keeping.

[Yachtzee]

Anyone else getting tired of the Hyundai ads?

[improbus]

Anyone else getting tired of the Hyundai ads?
I'm extemely tired of the Adidas commercial.

[Yachtzee]

t
I'm extemely tired of the Adidas commercial.

The FIFA Lady is getting on my nerves too

[Yachtzee]

I saw a picture on the web where Dirk Kuyt bears a passing resemblance to Sloth from the Goonies. Now when I see the second Dutch goal, where Kuyt flicks it to Sneijder, all I can think of is "Sloth loves Chunk."

[improbus]

What just happened? Drama...

[dougdirt]

Best handball EVER. Ghana had a for sure goal except the Uruguay defender just handballed the crap out of it to stop the goal. He of course got a red card and Ghana got a PK. They put the PK off the post and missed.

[westofyou]

Best handball EVER. Ghana had a for sure goal except the Uruguay defender just handballed the crap out of it to stop the goal. He of course got a red card and Ghana got a PK. They put the PK off the post and missed.

Diegos handball was better, if Uruguay wins, they lose that player for the next game

[improbus]

Kingson needs to stop guessing.

[dougdirt]

Diegos handball was better, if Uruguay wins, they lose that player for the next game

Dieog's wasn't a handball (ask him, he will tell you).

[BuckeyeRed27]

Wow. Have to feel terrible for Ghana.

That shouldn't be a PK there. That should be a goal and a red card.

[Tony Cloninger]

I am ...beyond words to describe how I feel . Cousins and nephews have been calling from Uruguay to our family.

Sucks to have to play penalty kicks...and losing Juarez is terrible...too bad he could not head it in.

They had their chances though to win in regulation at least twice.

What a day... 12-0 blowout vs the Cubs and now this.

[Betterread]

Dieog's wasn't a handball (ask him, he will tell you).
It is common knowledge that he admitted it was a handball. This is what he said: "un poco con la cabeza de Maradona y otro poco con la mano de Dios" ("a little with the head of Maradona and a little with the hand of God").

[Tony Cloninger]

BR27.....I have to agree but like PI in football.....it is a gamble you take beacuse the other result would have been worse.

[dougdirt]

It is common knowledge that he admitted it was a handball. This is what he said: "un poco con la cabeza de Maradona y otro poco con la mano de Dios" ("a little with the head of Maradona and a little with the hand of God").

Well unless he is referring to himself as God, then he didn't admit it with that quote. Regardless, it was the right play to make because otherwise Ghana is moving on.

[Yachtzee]

BR27.....I have to agree but like PI in football.....it is a gamble you take beacuse the other result would have been worse.

That's why players have to put away those penalty kicks.

[guttle11]

Suarez had to take the handball there. If not, that ball probably goes in and Ghana wins. He had to give his team a chance. They'll miss him against Holland, but they probably wouldn't be there without his play. Better to adjust without him than board a plane back home tomorrow.

And I'd rank that above the Hand of God. That one was early in the second half. This one was essentially the last play of the game.

[Betterread]

Well unless he is referring to himself as God, then he didn't admit it with that quote. Regardless, it was the right play to make because otherwise Ghana is moving on.
The quote is coy. He directly admitted that he handled the ball in 2005. And its a terrible play. It was obvious and negated the skill of the shooter.

[Yachtzee]

I am ...beyond words to describe how I feel . Cousins and nephews have been calling from Uruguay to our family.

Sucks to have to play penalty kicks...and losing Juarez is terrible...too bad he could not head it in.

They had their chances though to win in regulation at least twice.

What a day... 12-0 blowout vs the Cubs and now this.

Congratulations, Tony. I've enjoyed watching Uruguay, mainly because of Forlan. Suarez would be more entertaining if he weren't diving so much. He almost put a couple more in on the Ghanains. Forlan's goal on the free kick was great though.

Looking at who is left, the last team to win the World Cup from this bunch is Germany in 1990. With Germany and Argentina facing off tomorrow, it's looking more and more like we might have a first time winner this time around. Could this be the year Spain or the Netherlands finally wins it all? (Can you believe neither of those two teams has won yet?) Or do we have Argentina, Germany or Uruguay adding to their hardware? And then there is plucky Paraguay, who still has a shot.

[Yachtzee]

Suarez had to take the handball there. If not, that ball probably goes in and Ghana wins. He had to give his team a chance. They'll miss him against Holland, but they probably wouldn't be there without his play. Better to adjust without him than board a plane back home tomorrow.

And I'd rank that above the Hand of God. That one was early in the second half. This one was essentially the last play of the game.

I think if you consider the circumstances, Suarez's handball you can at least understand. It was an act of desperation and, from a fairness perspective, Ghana was given the golden opportunity to put it away and didn't. Maradona's "Hand of God" gave his team the unfair victory.

[Tony Cloninger]

Thanks Yachtzee. I can see why some would have a quarrel with what happened. In American jargon "It Blows" Soccer can be ...like they have been saying.... A beautiful yet heart wrenching game.

The irony of having uruguay vs Netherlands...is that in the 1974 opening WC game ...they faced each other. Uruguay had been a power since 1950..... 1954 and 1970 4th Place finishes and Quarters in 1966.

Holland comes out with "Total Football" in that match.....Uruguay was confused and basically seemed not to advance past the grind out...tough defense...and minimal offense they were known for. A Military Coup in 1973 did not help matters either...as the country was also heading for about 10 years of recession and soccer was just not a priority to put money in.

So it has been 20+ years of being not only out of Brazil and Argentina's reach...but then Chile and Colombia passed them by.

Suarez is young.....wish they had Forlan for another run in 4 years.

[improbus]

Uruguay remind me alot of Butler from this season. They have one or two very skilled player(s) in Forlan,Suarez/Hayward. After that, you have the right role players in the right places. Everyone is working well together. It is nice to see a team like Uruguay advance.

[SunDeck]

Germany in the third minute! Man, I wish I were not at work. This seemed like it could be a great match.

[texasdave]

There was a play in the game yesterday where the Netherlands' player had a corner kick and then only tapped the ball about a foot at the most and then ran away from the ball. He did not really have another teammate right there it appeared to me and the Brazilian player ran in after the ball. I was in a restaurant and didn't catch all of the commentary but the gist of it was that this was a play you might see in school boy soccer, but not something you would see at the International level. What was the purpose behind the play? What was the Netherlands player trying to accomplish? Anyone remember that play?

[Yachtzee]

Germany in the third minute! Man, I wish I were not at work. This seemed like it could be a great match.

Germans up 2-0 now. Argentina has had some chances but hasn't been able to finish. Both sided have shown great passing. Whoops, now Argentina has fallen apart. 3-0.

[Yachtzee]

At this point, Argentina just seems beat now.

[dougdirt]

Is Germany good? I can't tell.

[Yachtzee]

Klose gets his second as Germany puts up another 4 spot.

[Yachtzee]

That's it. Germany 4-0.

[SunDeck]

Klose- can't score anywhere but the WC.

[Yachtzee]

Klose has two more games to top Ronaldo for most WC goals.

[SunDeck]

Amazing.
I hope that game is repeated this evening- it sounds like the performance by a German team in years. I wonder what the difference was between their game today and against Serbia? Maybe it just means telling Podolski to stop looking at the goal every time he's close to the box.

Zika, zaka, zika,zaka, hoi, hoi, hoi!

[Yachtzee]

Amazing.
I hope that game is repeated this evening- it sounds like the performance by a German team in years. I wonder what the difference was between their game today and against Serbia? Maybe it just means telling Podolski to stop looking at the goal every time he's close to the box.

Zika, zaka, zika,zaka, hoi, hoi, hoi!

I'd say your comment alludes to it. The Germans have been good at being unselfish when going to goal, finding the man with the open shot. They've also had some great touch and passing in tight spots. Today they just seemed to be faster than the Argentines as well.

[reds1869]

Germany versus Spain...tasty!

[MWM]

Been traveling and just caught up on the games. The Brazil-Ned was a great game, but it may be the most theatrical game I've ever seen. Good lord, the crying!!! I was really disappointed to see Robben's flopping all over the place as I love the Dutch and hate to see them doing it.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't remember Brazil being such whiners in the past. They always seemed to go out and play Brazil football. They weren't immune to it, but I've always loved watching them play and this team seemed very un-Brazil like in the way they handled themselves. I couldn't believe how much they whined the entire game. They plow over a Dutch player, get a whistle, then throw their arms up in the air acting all innocent. It was the entire game. Didn't seem like Brazil to me. Disappointing.

[MWM]

Also, the Germans have been the most impressive team in the cup so far, IMO. They are rock solid in just about every aspect of the game. And they're not above flopping and theatrics, but they do it much less than anyone else. I love their style. They are much more business-like than any other team I've watched.

I think some teams, specifically Argentina, have gotten so far carried away with their theatrical production on the pitch, that it has had a detrimental impact on their game. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but when I watch, it almost looks like when they get the ball in a position to attack close to the goal, they're thinking "get a whistle" first and try to get a good shot second.

There were several times in the game when it was obvious they were looking for a whistle, and when they didn't get it the attack just stopped in its tracks. They didn't have any other ideas. They really didn't do much of anything against Germany. In contrast, the second German goal came after Muller went down on the ground, didn't get a whistle, and kept playing to set up Podolski. It was a brilliant play. I have to think that if it was an Argentine player, they would have stopped, thrown their arms up and whined at the ref. So I believe it goes beyond just being irritating for fans that it can detract from truly creative play.

[MWM]

Germany versus Spain...tasty!

No doubt. They may as well just call that one the final. I can't wait.

[Yachtzee]

Also, the Germans have been the most impressive team in the cup so far, IMO. They are rock solid in just about every aspect of the game. And they're not above flopping and theatrics, but they do it much less than anyone else. I love their style. They are much more business-like than any other team I've watched.

I think some teams, specifically Argentina, have gotten so far carried away with their theatrical production on the pitch, that it has had a detrimental impact on their game. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but when I watch, it almost looks like when they get the ball in a position to attack close to the goal, they're thinking "get a whistle" first and try to get a good shot second.

There were several times in the game when it was obvious they were looking for a whistle, and when they didn't get it the attack just stopped in its tracks. They didn't have any other ideas. They really didn't do much of anything against Germany. In contrast, the second German goal came after Muller went down on the ground, didn't get a whistle, and kept playing to set up Podolski. It was a brilliant play. I have to think that if it was an Argentine player, they would have stopped, thrown their arms up and whined at the ref. So I believe it goes beyond just being irritating for fans that it can detract from truly creative play.

While there will always be a certain amount of diving in soccer, I think it's the histrionics that bug me the most. One of the things I've noticed is that fewer refs are falling for the bad acting. That seems to benefit teams that aren't big on acting it up. If you have someone rolling on the deck while the ref let's play go on, the team is actually playing with ten men for a little bit.

I loved watching the Germans today, but my one complaint would be the few times when Argentina started to get through and the Germans slowed down raising their arms to signal offsides. One of these days the ref will let it go and a goal will be the result.

[Yachtzee]

No doubt. They may as well just call that one the final. I can't wait.

Experience vs. Youth, Possession vs. Speed, Villa vs. Klose for the Golden Boot. Lots of interesting aspects to this game.

Imagine if Germany makes it to the final, they will have beaten England, Argentina, and Spain to get there.

[Betterread]

No doubt. They may as well just call that one the final. I can't wait.
Germany will have psychological edge on the more talented, but neurotic Spaniards. Spain: Holland would be great but Germany:Holland would be completely wild. The Dutch think Germans are scum (WWII has not been forgotten), even more that the Brits. No psychological edge for Germany vrs. Holland. Beating Germany for the WC final would be the ultimate for Holland.

[Yachtzee]

Germany will have psychological edge on the more talented, but neurotic Spaniards. Spain: Holland would be great but Germany:Holland would be completely wild. The Dutch think Germans are scum (WWII has not been forgotten), even more that the Brits. No psychological edge for Germany vrs. Holland. Beating Germany for the WC final would be the ultimate for Holland.

No kidding. Listening to a call-in show on XM, the Dutch fans were already in a tizzy about meeting Germany in the finals. They just have to be careful not to overlook Uruguay, which has shown it can win if it comes to a tight game. I don't think the Germans will look past Spain, but they know it will be tough to beat them. If it does come to a Dutch-German final, it will be something else. The Germans still talk about a spitting incident involving Frank Rijkard and the two teams have met in a number of historically important matches before.

[sabometrics]

Van Bronckhorst had one of the best goals of the tournament thus far. 40 yards and just a pure shot off the left bar. Forlan has been on his game too keeping Uruguay in it through the first half. If you're not watching this game yet you may want to tune in for the stretch run.

[jmcclain19]

Seemed like a pretty one sided game today between Ned/Uru

Uruguay kept playing 8, 9, 10 guys behind the ball all game and Netherlands just kept launching all out attacks at the defense. It seemed inevitable they would break thru a few times.

Robben just had a great header to make it 3-1.

[Joseph]

And I thought the NHL playoffs took a long time.

[Yachtzee]

And I thought the NHL playoffs took a long time.

The World Cup takes about 1 month from start to finish. I'd hardly call that long.

[MWM]

Happy to see the Dutch in the finals, although I could live without Robben's antics and V Bommel's dirty play. V Bommel is lucky to still be playing.

[oneupper]

The Dutch deserved the cup in '74, when they were clearly the best side. In '78 they came inches away (a shot off the post in the last minute) from taking it from Argentina.
A little redemption headed their way, perhaps?

This time Germany would seem to be the best side standing, but a Holland-Spain would be nice, as it would product a first time winner.

[westofyou]

And I thought the NHL playoffs took a long time.

They do, April start and a June end.

[Yachtzee]

Happy to see the Dutch in the finals, although I could live without Robben's antics and V Bommel's dirty play. V Bommel is lucky to still be playing.

Van Bommel was pretty cynical at the end. He could have easily caught two yellows in the past two games and would have had to sit out the final.

Got to hand it to the Uruguayans. No one thought they'd make it this far and they kept fighting to the end. Definitely made a better account for themselves than Argentina did against Germany.

[NJReds]

Van Bommel was pretty cynical at the end. He could have easily caught two yellows in the past two games and would have had to sit out the final.


I thought I heard on ESPN this a.m. that the "2 Yellows" rule doesn't apply to the semifinal round. Someone could've accumulated a second yellow card today and still qualified for the final. But I could be wrong.

[Yachtzee]

As a side note: something I've picked up on in the past few days about Germany. They've been talking about how the Germans really turned their training regime around under Klinsman, bringing in tehniques Klinsman picked up from American sports, which Loew has continued to use. Combined with the Germans' reemphasis on development at the youth level, I think we're seeing what the US could look like in 2018 or 2022 if the USSF implements a program to build the technical skills (touch and footskills) and awareness of space possessed by top contenders. If they do it now, maybe some kids playing U-8 to U-10 today will be our young superstars of the 2022 World Cup.

[Yachtzee]

I thought I heard on ESPN this a.m. that the "2 Yellows" rule doesn't apply to the semifinal round. Someone could've accumulated a second yellow card today and still qualified for the final. But I could be wrong.

I thought that it meant that the yellows accumulated in the earlier parts of the tournament were wiped out, but that a player could still get suspended on yellows in consecutive matches. I don't think ESPN explained it well, at least when I've been watching. So you could be right.

[Slyder]

As a side note: something I've picked up on in the past few days about Germany. They've been talking about how the Germans really turned their training regime around under Klinsman, bringing in tehniques Klinsman picked up from American sports, which Loew has continued to use. Combined with the Germans' reemphasis on development at the youth level, I think we're seeing what the US could look like in 2018 or 2022 if the USSF implements a program to build the technical skills (touch and footskills) and awareness of space possessed by top contenders. If they do it now, maybe some kids playing U-8 to U-10 today will be our young superstars of the 2022 World Cup.

They won't learn playing on these craptastic short sided fields that USSF is using at every age until U14.

[Yachtzee]

They won't learn playing on these craptastic short sided fields that USSF is using at every age until U14.

On the contrary, it's my understanding that the shorter fields are intended to put emphasis on fewer, better touches and shorter, faster passing with more control. The idea is to emulate the conditions of street soccer. I've heard the Dutch and Germans don't put their kids on full size fields with 11v11 teams until the age of 14.

If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. We played 11v11 on full size fields at age 8. It was a lot of booting the ball downfield and letting our fastest kids chase it. As a winger, I usually just chased the ball into the corner and booted it into the middle hoping one of my guys could put it in. Defenders rarely went past midfield because coach didn't want them to get beat going the other way. Coaches cared more about having speed and strong legs for long passes. We spent more time stretching and running laps than we did playing.

[Tony Cloninger]

Is Van Bommel the tall Dutch (there's an oxymoron for you)...with black hair?

Beacuse i think i saw about 2 of the Uruguayan players chasing him down after the game was over.

I know most people seem to NOT want Uruguay in there....especially after the Ghana game. Sucks to be such a non-entity to most soccer fans...even when you play your heart out......but they clearly missed Suarez and their captain in the backfield. I will never know if that would have made the difference at all....but depth is not their strong point, which is why most people did not take them seriously or thought they got lucky to be there.

[Slyder]

On the contrary, it's my understanding that the shorter fields are intended to put emphasis on fewer, better touches and shorter, faster passing with more control. The idea is to emulate the conditions of street soccer. I've heard the Dutch and Germans don't put their kids on full size fields with 11v11 teams until the age of 14.

If you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. We played 11v11 on full size fields at age 8. It was a lot of booting the ball downfield and letting our fastest kids chase it. As a winger, I usually just chased the ball into the corner and booted it into the middle hoping one of my guys could put it in. Defenders rarely went past midfield because coach didn't want them to get beat going the other way. Coaches cared more about having speed and strong legs for long passes. We spent more time stretching and running laps than we did playing.

I'm not saying 11 v 11 should be the only way just that the current setup is severely lacking in many key areas. At some point before they start middle school/junior high they should be introduced to a field that allows them to play like they are going to play from the 6th grade and up.

1 The kids aren't learning to play by being on the bench which is what is the result of playing these assine 6 v 6 fields for U11-12 as most of the teams I have reffed usually have upwards of 10-12 kids on a team anyways and just substitute the whole "team" once or twice a half.
2 They are not learning the concept of playing the ball wide and working it there.
3 Defenders are not learning to push up because the fields are so small that they have to fear the goalie kicking it over their heads.
4 Kids are not able to be given the opportunity to learn what offsides is properly because the fullbacks stay so far back.
5 Midfield is a lost art in much of the upper levels that I have seen because there just isnt the room for the kids to learn and experience it.

U4 up through like U8 (non offsides games) yes theres a point to have the smaller teams more time with the ball, fewer kids to watch, teaching the basics, yada, yada, yada. But I think we do the kids a HUGE disservice by limiting to the extent the experience of field size. We don't have all the great coaches some of these places have that can correct poor habits learned early, most of the coaches in the US are usually parents who know slightly more than the kids but thats still a real limited knowledge.

Like I said above 11 v 11 isnt the be all end all, but you have to put the kids on a field size
- where you need to have someone playing midfield.
- allows the defenders to practice pushing up away from the goal.
- gives players the opportunity to learn what offsides is (maybe even an offsides trap if the coach is real good).
- teaches kids the advantage of playing wide and overlapping runs.

It could be as simple as maybe adding a player or 2 to the field and maybe add some space to the field.

It shows in the middle schools especially when these kids start playing 11 v 11. I have lost track of the number of games since they started this policy that within the first 3 minutes of a game I could predict just how bad of a game it was going to be because one team never had its fullbacks outside the goal box because that is what they did for the entire time they played while the other team just constantly gets the ball dribbles up 30 yds and then has numbers because the midfielders and fullbacks don't understand the concept of putting pressure on the ball or moving out to limit the amount of area that the team can work. Games are won/lost in the midfield, these rules as they are current constructed do not play towards that.

[Yachtzee]

I'm not saying 11 v 11 should be the only way just that the current setup is severely lacking in many key areas. At some point before they start middle school/junior high they should be introduced to a field that allows them to play like they are going to play from the 6th grade and up.

1 The kids aren't learning to play by being on the bench which is what is the result of playing these assine 6 v 6 fields for U11-12 as most of the teams I have reffed usually have upwards of 10-12 kids on a team anyways and just substitute the whole "team" once or twice a half.
2 They are not learning the concept of playing the ball wide and working it there.
3 Defenders are not learning to push up because the fields are so small that they have to fear the goalie kicking it over their heads.
4 Kids are not able to be given the opportunity to learn what offsides is properly because the fullbacks stay so far back.
5 Midfield is a lost art in much of the upper levels that I have seen because there just isnt the room for the kids to learn and experience it.

U4 up through like U8 (non offsides games) yes theres a point to have the smaller teams more time with the ball, fewer kids to watch, teaching the basics, yada, yada, yada. But I think we do the kids a HUGE disservice by limiting to the extent the experience of field size. We don't have all the great coaches some of these places have that can correct poor habits learned early, most of the coaches in the US are usually parents who know slightly more than the kids but thats still a real limited knowledge.

Like I said above 11 v 11 isnt the be all end all, but you have to put the kids on a field size
- where you need to have someone playing midfield.
- allows the defenders to practice pushing up away from the goal.
- gives players the opportunity to learn what offsides is (maybe even an offsides trap if the coach is real good).
- teaches kids the advantage of playing wide and overlapping runs.

It could be as simple as maybe adding a player or 2 to the field and maybe add some space to the field.

It shows in the middle schools especially when these kids start playing 11 v 11. I have lost track of the number of games since they started this policy that within the first 3 minutes of a game I could predict just how bad of a game it was going to be because one team never had its fullbacks outside the goal box because that is what they did for the entire time they played while the other team just constantly gets the ball dribbles up 30 yds and then has numbers because the midfielders and fullbacks don't understand the concept of putting pressure on the ball or moving out to limit the amount of area that the team can work. Games are won/lost in the midfield, these rules as they are current constructed do not play towards that.

I think a lot of your complaints arise from coaching. Some youth leagues around here are requiring coaches to undergo training and licensing in order to coach the higher youth levels. Kids aren't going to learn those kinds of things without coaches teaching them, regardless of field size.

[NJReds]

I'm not able to watch Spain - Germany, but it sounds like from what I've read that Spain is playing keep-away and there was very little action in the first half.

[NJReds]

If Spain ends up playing Holland, the goalies can hang out on the sidelines while the teams pass the ball around the midfield. Then come out for the penalty shootout.

[Chip R]

And it's Spain.

[texasdave]

Perhaps not for the purists, but soccer is a much more interesting game when there is a sense of desperation by one of the teams.

[SunDeck]

I'm not able to watch Spain - Germany, but it sounds like from what I've read that Spain is playing keep-away and there was very little action in the first half.

Typical Spanish game- playing control ball, looking for the perfect pass to finish, but they ended up scoring on a corner kick, with a brilliant header.
Germany played to counter attack and nearly had a couple goals. In the end I think it had to go Spain's way. Germany needed to control the ball more at midfield and just couldn't do it and I was also surprised by the number of give aways by Germany in the middle of the field. That was somewhat uncharacteristic.

[Yachtzee]

Typical Spanish game- playing control ball, looking for the perfect pass to finish, but they ended up scoring on a corner kick, with a brilliant header.
Germany played to counter attack and nearly had a couple goals. In the end I think it had to go Spain's way. Germany needed to control the ball more at midfield and just couldn't do it and I was also surprised by the number of give aways by Germany in the middle of the field. That was somewhat uncharacteristic.

I think they really missed Mueller.

[Slyder]

I think a lot of your complaints arise from coaching. Some youth leagues around here are requiring coaches to undergo training and licensing in order to coach the higher youth levels. Kids aren't going to learn those kinds of things without coaches teaching them, regardless of field size.

On these smaller sized fields you can't teach what you cant do.

Kids dont push up regardless of how the coach tells them cause 80% of the goalies can kick it to the other box without much issue. They get discouraged of pushing up because of this and no amount of coaching is going to get them to change until they see they aren't going to get beat by a kick over their heads.

How do you teach the long through ball when anything further than 20-30yds ends up out of bounce?

How do you teach the advantage of working it wide when teams can get back because the field is too small to work on good crosses?

How do you teach overlapping runs (like Bradley's goal vs Slovenia) when theres no one in the midfield as there isnt enough space for someone to truely play the position?

How do you deal with enough kids to have basically 2 teams on one roster? If you've got the numbers you should give kids the opportunity to have them on the field so that they can better understand conditioning, spacing, passing, etc. Its not an issue with the ginormous teams (as in current rules) because kids get subbed out halfway through cause theres another whole team just waiitng on the bench).

Kids lose interest on the bench, they arent watching the game most of the time, they aren't learning, most dont know what to look for, USUALLY theyre talking with their teammates just about anything but learning the game. I think you would see "better" results by simply adding to the play surface and allowing teams to play 8 v 8. Add like 15-20 ft to the length and 5-10 ft to the width add 2 players to be "midfielders" and you would see in general an increase in the number of players actually playing.

[Yachtzee]

On these smaller sized fields you can't teach what you cant do.

Kids dont push up regardless of how the coach tells them cause 80% of the goalies can kick it to the other box without much issue. They get discouraged of pushing up because of this and no amount of coaching is going to get them to change until they see they aren't going to get beat by a kick over their heads.

How do you teach the long through ball when anything further than 20-30yds ends up out of bounce?

How do you teach the advantage of working it wide when teams can get back because the field is too small to work on good crosses?

How do you teach overlapping runs (like Bradley's goal vs Slovenia) when theres no one in the midfield as there isnt enough space for someone to truely play the position?

How do you deal with enough kids to have basically 2 teams on one roster? If you've got the numbers you should give kids the opportunity to have them on the field so that they can better understand conditioning, spacing, passing, etc. Its not an issue with the ginormous teams (as in current rules) because kids get subbed out halfway through cause theres another whole team just waiitng on the bench).

Kids lose interest on the bench, they arent watching the game most of the time, they aren't learning, most dont know what to look for, USUALLY theyre talking with their teammates just about anything but learning the game. I think you would see "better" results by simply adding to the play surface and allowing teams to play 8 v 8. Add like 15-20 ft to the length and 5-10 ft to the width add 2 players to be "midfielders" and you would see in general an increase in the number of players actually playing.

Moving up to 8v8 is what I think they're supposed to do at U-10, I think. I'm not as concerned about short fields as long as they are wide enough. I think teaching long through passes is easier if kids have learned better passing and touch at younger ages. The goalie problems can be remedied by banning punts. Make the goalies learn to distribute the ball using throws or ground passing.

[jmcclain19]

I think they really missed Mueller.

Big time. In the England/Argentina games, they seemed content to sit back and then strike when that slightest window opened with an opportunity.

Seems like Mueller was the man driving the boat on those opportunities. I didn't see much push back at all by Germany - especially in the 2nd half. They seemed ok with letting Spain crash the goal for minutes on end without the counter back.

And this match was amazingly boring until that goal happened.

Like texasdave pointed out - it became much more interested when the Germans became desperate.

[Yachtzee]

Big time. In the England/Argentina games, they seemed content to sit back and then strike when that slightest window opened with an opportunity.

Seems like Mueller was the man driving the boat on those opportunities. I didn't see much push back at all by Germany - especially in the 2nd half. They seemed ok with letting Spain crash the goal for minutes on end without the counter back.

And this match was amazingly boring until that goal happened.

Like texasdave pointed out - it became much more interested when the Germans became desperate.

Without Mueller, it seemed as though their passing wasn't moving up field fast enough. With him, the Germans seemed to be able to move the ball faster to open up the defense. Today, Spain was able to get back and clog up the German offense between the halfline and the 18 yd line.

[Yachtzee]

Oh, and the Germans had the Octopus against them too. :)

[reds1869]

Oh, and the Germans had the Octopus against them too. :)

They better be trembling at the thing's prediction for the 3rd Place Game!

[MWM]

Geez, I went to such extremes all day to avoid any exposure to the game for THAT. What a snooze fest. Who hid the German team and replaced them with the look-alikes on the field today? Was not even the same team. Was Muller THAT important?

I am excited to have a new winner, though.

[Tony Cloninger]

I like both Spain and the Netherlands. I do not like Van Bommel or Victor Von Doom as he should be called. How does this guy get away with the fouls blatantly pulls?

[Yachtzee]

I like both Spain and the Netherlands. I do not like Van Bommel or Victor Von Doom as he should be called. How does this guy get away with the fouls blatantly pulls?

He just looks at the ref and and says, "I am from Holland. Isn't zhat vierd? Yesh!"

[RawOwl UK]

I'm back



Not sure if that works but this is just before the Germany game on the streets of Rhodes. I ended up watching the game next to a German couple :( they were brave to be there in a bar full of English fans and we all bought them a beer afterwards to celebrate their deserved victory.

[NJReds]

Oh, and the Germans had the Octopus against them too. :)

And so do the Dutch.


Working from his aquarium tank in Oberhausen, Germany, the sage cephalopod, whose record in predicting international soccer matches since 2008 stands at 10-1, made its choice before a bank of cameras from several television networks. On Thursday The Lede blog explained that the multitalented mollusk’s accurate prophecy that Spain would defeat Germany to advance to the final had resulted in death threats from outraged German fans.

[NJReds]

Not so fast Spain ... you have the Octopus, but the Dutch have the Mani psychic parakeet in their corner:


Paul the "psychic" octopus has a rival: a Singapore parakeet which correctly predicted all four winners in the World Cup quarter-finals has picked the Netherlands to trump Spain for the championship, local media said Friday.

The bird, named Mani, has rapidly gained cult status among gambling-mad soccer fans who have been flocking to its owner's shop in Singapore's Little India district in the hope of winning big.

Local media reports said Mani used its beak to pick a card bearing the flag of the Netherlands over one with Spain's national colours.

"With the World Cup in its final stage, Mani is now literally the talk of the town -- and many are going with its prediction of the Dutch team winning its first-ever World Cup title," Channel NewsAsia said on its website.

It said Mani and its owner, astrologer M. Muniyappan, used to see about 10 customers on an average day but now they entertain the same number in just one hour.

Dubbed "magical bird" and "homegrown psychic parakeet" by the local media, Mani accurately predicted the outcome of the game in which Spain won over Germany to set the showdown with the Netherlands, which beat Paraguay.

With the sport watched by millions of people worldwide, Mani is competing for stardom with Paul, the octopus in Germany which has also used its "psychic" powers to accurately pick winners.

[texasdave]

Welcome back, RawOwl UK, and hope you had a great trip.

[jmcclain19]

So cough it up folks - who are you picking in the final.

I'm going with Spain.

[texasdave]

How can you go against a psychic parakeet? The Netherlands.

[Hoosier Red]

So cough it up folks - who are you picking in the final.

I'm going with Spain.

The Netherlands. I have no reason for believing this.

[westofyou]

So cough it up folks - who are you picking in the final.

I'm going with Spain.

Dutch are my pick

[jmcclain19]

How can you go against a psychic parakeet? The Netherlands.

The Octopus picked Spain - thus I follow

http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/article/paul-the-octopus-picks-spain-to-win-world-cup-mani-the-parakeet-likes-the-netherlands/19548332

[WMR]

I never thought the Dutch defense would hold up like it has... happy to have been proven wrong... can they do it for one more game? I'll be pulling for them. Spain has had enough success recently, give someone else some glory. :D

[Chip R]

Have to go with my heritage and say the Dutch.

[Yachtzee]

Neither team has won one before, so take that out of the equation. I'm torn. I would normally automatically pick the Dutch, but Van Bommel, De Jong and Robben have kind of soured me on this team.

[reds1869]

I'm not cheering for either team. I'm just kicking back and enjoying what could be a classic World Cup Final!

[Cedric]

I'm calling my prediction 1-0 to the Dutch. Predicting that Robben on the right gives Sergio Ramos and Capdevilla fits.

[RawOwl UK]

An early Dutch goal and this could be a fantastic final. My head says Spain 1-0 though.

[improbus]

Get ready for "dive-fest 20-10".

[Tony Cloninger]

I want to see if Van Bommel will be red carded finally......they just glossed over his work on Tuesday...especially right before the 1st Dutch goal/

They barely showed the replay of his high kicking at the defenders upper thigh.

Do the side referees NOT get to call any fouls? Beacuse he was there watching it.

[WMR]

Quite a fast-moving thread.