USMNT --- World Cup 2010 South Africa - USA Eliminated

[WMR]

Who else is starting to develop World Cup fever??

I can't believe it's really almost here. :D

[Hoosier Red]

About freaking time we finished off that last thread.

My only concern for the US team is the defense, Onyewu has to recover quickly, and then there's either Spector and Bocanegra or Bocanegra and DeMerrit in some order. None have looked particularly convincing for a long time.

Never thought it would be the defense that had me worried last summer.

[NJReds]

Concerned that Onyewu was gassed after an hour last night and wasn't that great when he wasn't gassed. They'll need him in full fitness, especially against England.

[WMR]

I really don't know what to make of our defense.

I know I don't want Boca on the outside... thing is, I don't really want him starting at CB, either...

I know BB is going to play him, however, and I guess I'd rather have him in the middle than outside...

[reds1869]

We are shaky at the back for sure. I still think this is the strongest all-around squad we've sent to the World Cup. I'm hoping for a nice, deep run.

[WMR]

We are in trouble at outside back, I'm afraid.

Could be the achilles heel of this squad.

[WMR]

WHAT A GOAL BY JOZY!!!!

I love that kid.

LD right in the middle of things as usual.

[Hoosier Red]

We are in trouble at outside back, I'm afraid.

Could be the achilles heel of this squad.

If it weren't so close to the WC, I'd almost be interested in Beasley at LB again.

I think Cherundolo will be okay at RB, but Bocanegra is going to need someone fast on the left to be able to track back. In my ideal lineup, I'd have Holden on the RW and Donovan on the LW but I don't want Landon having to spend so much extra energy tracking back on defense.

[RadfordVA]

Much better job by everyone in 2nd half. Really like what torres and findley brought to table today. Gonna need alot more of that in a couple weeks! Glad Jozy was able to get some confidence back with an easy goal

[WMR]

Great touch and finish by Clint on his goal.

Bornstein is godawful. If he's playing, we're in trouble.

[WMR]

Turkey is a damn good side. I'm definitely encouraged by what I saw today. Just worried about LB.

[Hoosier Red]

Great touch and finish by Clint on his goal.

Bornstein is godawful. If he's playing, we're in trouble.

Well he certainly can't complain about a lack of chances.

I'm thinking this will be the starting line up.


Altidore-Dempsey

Donovan - Edu - Bradley - Holden

Bocanegra -DeMerit-Onyewu - Cherundolo

But I'm betting if the US can get a lead(especially against England) then Beasley will come in for Holden or Dempsey pretty quickly.

Than you'd have:
Altidore - Donovan/Dempsey

Beasley - Edu - Bradley - Holden/Donovan

Bocanegra - DeMerit - Onyewu - Cherundolo

This would allow you to have Beasley track back and protect Bocanegra,(and allow Bocanegra to move further inside, basically 3 Central Defenders, and allow the US to protect a lead.

[NJReds]

For the life of me I'll never understand why FIFA feels it must change the ball before major competitions. It'd be like if Bud Selig introduced a slightly larger baseball before the World Series, or the NFL used a rugby ball in the Super Bowl.



Pazzini: 'World Cup ball a disaster'
Saturday 29 May, 2010

Giampaolo Pazzini has joined goalkeeper Julio Cesar in complaining about the World Cup ball. “It’s a disaster.”

Inter and Brazil shot-stopper Julio Cesar moaned that the new Jabulani sphere for the tournament in South Africa was “terrible, horrible. It's like one of those balls you buy in the supermarket.”

Now Italy striker Pazzini has joined the chorus of disapproval about the Jabulani.

“The new balls are a disaster,” said the Sampdoria forward. “They always change direction mid-air.

“It’s not just a problem for the goalkeepers, but also the strikers. A cross comes in and you line up to head it, then the ball moves by half a metre and you end up missing it.”

The teams are practising with the new balls in their training camps ahead of the World Cup in South Africa.

[improbus]

I'm a teacher and June 11th is the first day of my summer vacation. What a double whammy of awesomeness!

[Chip R]

I thought you guys might want to join a fantasy World Cup prediction. I'm really not into it but I thought it could be interesting to have one.

The Group is RedsZone
The Group ID# is 17678
The password is donovan10

Good luck!

http://us.wc.fantasysports.yahoo.com/world-cup

[reds1869]

I thought you guys might want to join a fantasy World Cup prediction. I'm really not into it but I thought it could be interesting to have one.

The Group is RedsZone
The Group ID# is 17678
The password is donovan10

Good luck!

http://us.wc.fantasysports.yahoo.com/world-cup

I'm in, and I hope others will join us!

[NJReds]

Heard that Giuseppe Rossi ... born in NJ, plays for Italy ... did not make the cut for the Azzurri. He could've played in three, maybe four world cups had he accepted Bruce Arena's offer for a spot on the US squad. He chose to get an Italian passport and now he may never have an opportunity to play in the World Cup.

[Hoosier Red]

Heard that Giuseppe Rossi ... born in NJ, plays for Italy ... did not make the cut for the Azzurri. He could've played in three, maybe four world cups had he accepted Bruce Arena's offer for a spot on the US squad. He chose to get an Italian passport and now he may never have an opportunity to play in the World Cup.

That's a shame for the guy but it's one of the things in International soccer that interests me quite a bit. As the world becomes more and more interconnected there will be even more families moving from one country to another. How FIFA and other international sporting agencies deal with players deciding which country to represent will be an interesting debate that I'm not sure I have an answer for.
While Rossi has given up his chances to play for the US, Freddy Adu probably could have helped Ghana qualify for the WC and played for them if he liked. 4 years ago can you imagine how terrified US fans would be that Adu might not play for the United States in the 2010 World Cup?

It seems as though there will be more and more competition to "recruit" players to play for the national teams at even younger ages.

[Cedric]

I think most USA soccer fans have serious doubts about defensive capability. Obviously teams that hunker down and play for the counter need a steady defense. Demerit, Bocanegra, and Onyewu being nicked up is a major problem.

I can only hope that Edu has a major role in CDM.

[Hoosier Red]

I'm not so sure the US is going to hunker down and counter. The England game will obviously require a great defensive effort and you'll see them bunker in quite a bit there. But against Slovenia and Algeria? I'm not sure the US isn't a comparable or superior team, so it's not like they have to hunker down and hope for the best.

After the group stage, it will really depend on what the matchups are. Admittedly the US will be at a pretty big disadvantage against most teams in the knockout phase.

[WMR]

It looked to me that Bradley Sr. may have finally been cured of his 'hunker down and pray' tendencies. We can play with England.

[NJReds]

That's a shame for the guy but it's one of the things in International soccer that interests me quite a bit. As the world becomes more and more interconnected there will be even more families moving from one country to another. How FIFA and other international sporting agencies deal with players deciding which country to represent will be an interesting debate that I'm not sure I have an answer for.
While Rossi has given up his chances to play for the US, Freddy Adu probably could have helped Ghana qualify for the WC and played for them if he liked. 4 years ago can you imagine how terrified US fans would be that Adu might not play for the United States in the 2010 World Cup?

It seems as though there will be more and more competition to "recruit" players to play for the national teams at even younger ages.

Ghana has been knocking down the door to get Balotelli (Inter/Italy) to play for them. But I think he's committed to trying to make the Italian national team. He's still very young, and will have a chance again in 4 years if he starts showing more maturity on and off the field.

[WMR]

I know I shouldn't, but I'm laughing my ass off at Rossi.

Kid could've been a star for the USMNT but gets left off the Azurri.

[texasdave]

CNNSI ranks all 32 teams. USA checks in at # 14. I thought others might be interested to see the rankings.



When you look at the clubs where the Americans play and consider that the U.S. has yet to produce a soccer superstar, you realize that coach Bob Bradley's team actually punches above its own weight. Part of the reason is excellent team chemistry. The Yanks looked good in the second half of Saturday's 2-1 win against Turkey after a brutal first half, especially on defense. Questions on the back line will probably persist until Oguchi Onyewu, fresh off a seven-month injury layoff, shows he can perform against Wayne Rooney and England on June 12. The attacking keys will be two players who haven't been slowed by injuries: Landon Donovan and Clint Dempsey, who will most likely continue prowling the flanks, where they have the freedom to cut inside with the ball at their feet.
Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/grant_wahl/06/01/wc.power.rankings2/index.html#ixzz0pgb8aQjv

[Hoosier Red]

Gasp and Dismay, Jozy Altidore sprained his ankle today in practice.
He's day to day, but as Dan and Keith used to like to say, "Aren't we all."

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/story/_/id/5247681/ce/us/jozy-altidore-united-states-sprains-ankle-day-day?cc=5901&ver=us

Altidore hurt his right ankle during a workout on a shortened field Wednesday, U.S. Soccer Federation spokesman Neil Buethe said. Altidore was taken to a hospital for X-rays and was diagnosed with a mild sprain.

[Betterread]

I know I shouldn't, but I'm laughing my ass off at Rossi.

Kid could've been a star for the USMNT but gets left off the Azurri.

Laugh at Rossi? He's 10 times better than any forward for the USA.

Toni, Totti, Balotelli, Miccoli were all left off the Azzurri. The Italian group of forwards is the weakest in years. No logic to the selections - Qualiarella is the only interesting player in the group.

[NJReds]

Laugh at Rossi? He's 10 times better than any forward for the USA.

Toni, Totti, Balotelli, Miccoli were all left off the Azzurri. The Italian group of forwards is the weakest in years. No logic to the selections - Qualiarella is the only interesting player in the group.

Totti retired from international duty.
Miccoli suffered a knee injury in Palermo's second to last game.
Balotelli is immature ... a red card waiting to happen. Can't be trusted in the spotlight. Same with Cassano.

I would have taken Toni or Rossi over Iaquinta, though.

Not sure what you don't like about DiNatale, Gilardino and Pazzini. All are solid choices.

[OldRightHander]

Not exactly the US team, but I just heard that Drogba is out with an injury. Shame. He can be fun to watch.

[WMR]

Laugh at Rossi? He's 10 times better than any forward for the USA.

Toni, Totti, Balotelli, Miccoli were all left off the Azzurri. The Italian group of forwards is the weakest in years. No logic to the selections - Qualiarella is the only interesting player in the group.

Yeah, and he'll be watching the World Cup with the rest of us from his couch.

[WMR]

Not exactly the US team, but I just heard that Drogba is out with an injury. Shame. He can be fun to watch.

That's fine. This thread is intended to be a 'catch all' for not only the USMNT, but the World Cup as a whole. :)

[NJReds]

Not exactly the US team, but I just heard that Drogba is out with an injury. Shame. He can be fun to watch.

Other noteable injuries from the past couple days:

Italy: Camorenesi (out) and Pirlo (possibly out)

England: Ferdinand (out)

[reds1869]

Those are some big injuries. Though I guess in this tournament they are all big injuries.

[Cedric]

Those are some big injuries. Though I guess in this tournament they are all big injuries.

I don't see how the Italians can win without Pirlo. The only dynamic "playmaker" in the whole setup for them.

[NJReds]

I don't see how the Italians can win without Pirlo. The only dynamic "playmaker" in the whole setup for them.

He is the glue of that midfield, although he wasn't great this year for Milan.

DeRossi is more than capable, and watch out for Simone Pepe. He had a solid campaign for Udinese. He can be dynamic in the midfield.

Actually, losing the "old-timers" Camorenesi and Pirlo may actually be a blessing in disguise for the Azzurri as some of the younger talent might revitalize this group.

[Nugget]

See what happens to night when the Socceroos play. Wonder what team the US will put out against us as we play hard and whether the US will see this as a hit out or a game where you need to protect your stars.

It will also be a good to see what kind of team Verbeek will put out. Supposedly very disappointed in the condition of the ground.

[Betterread]

Totti retired from international duty.
Miccoli suffered a knee injury in Palermo's second to last game.
Balotelli is immature ... a red card waiting to happen. Can't be trusted in the spotlight. Same with Cassano.

I would have taken Toni or Rossi over Iaquinta, though.

Not sure what you don't like about DiNatale, Gilardino and Pazzini. All are solid choices.

Totti changed his mind. You're right about Miccoli, I forgot he got injured in the final game of the year.
Balotelli is too talented not to be selected, regardless of his weird behavior.
Gilardino and Iaquinta are not world class scorers. Pazzini owes his fantastic year to Cassano. Cassano is the far superior player on Samp.

[Betterread]

He is the glue of that midfield, although he wasn't great this year for Milan.

DeRossi is more than capable, and watch out for Simone Pepe. He had a solid campaign for Udinese. He can be dynamic in the midfield.

Actually, losing the "old-timers" Camorenesi and Pirlo may actually be a blessing in disguise for the Azzurri as some of the younger talent might revitalize this group.

Pirlo had a great 2006 WC but he's past his prime. You like DeRossi as a replacement. Interesting. I'm a Roma fan and DeRossi showed creative midfield ability enough to hope for more... but he was very inconsistent this year. Pizarro was their top midfielder - he passed more accurately, he controlled tempo much better and was more disciplined.
Giovinco could have helped but was not selected.

[NJReds]

Pirlo had a great 2006 WC but he's past his prime. You like DeRossi as a replacement. Interesting. I'm a Roma fan and DeRossi showed creative midfield ability enough to hope for more... but he was very inconsistent this year. Pizarro was their top midfielder - he passed more accurately, he controlled tempo much better and was more disciplined.
Giovinco could have helped but was not selected.

Giovinco was injured and didn't play much this year. He's not in form.

DeRossi is tireless. He had to play a defensive midfield role all too often to cover the suspect Roma defense. Many Italians I know are not thrilled with this squad, either.

[WMR]

USA did a very good job creating chances today. That being typed, they surrendered many good scoring opportunities as well. Keeping England off the ledger will be a tall order. Need to be ready to score some goals next Saturday to keep pace with the Brits.

[Caveat Emperor]

USA did a very good job creating chances today. That being typed, they surrendered many good scoring opportunities as well. Keeping England off the ledger will be a tall order. Need to be ready to score some goals next Saturday to keep pace with the Brits.

I'm going into Saturday hoping for a tie, but mentally prepared (and OK) with a loss.

[Yachtzee]

It's Soccer Xmas morning! Happy World Cup! The Yanks are going on a "Lion" hunt.

[reds1869]

Sad news from Soccer America this morning: Nelson Mandela's 13 year-old great-granddaughter was killed in a car crash on the way home from the opening concert last night.

[AccordinglyReds]

First match about to begin :)

[westofyou]

It's Soccer Xmas morning! Happy World Cup! The Yanks are going on a "Lion" hunt.

This is perfectly timed, the Stanley Cub ends and the World Cup begins, it's gonna be a great month.

[OldRightHander]

This is perfectly timed, the Stanley Cub ends and the World Cup begins, it's gonna be a great month.

Hockey at Wrigley? They did play that outdoor game there recently didn't they?

[improbus]

This is perfectly timed, the Stanley Cub ends and the World Cup begins, it's gonna be a great month.
School ended yesterday and the World Cup started today. Good times all around.

[WMR]

The marking on that goal conceded by S. Africa was just dreadful but is very typical of an African side.

[OldRightHander]

The marking on that goal conceded by S. Africa was just dreadful but is very typical of an African side.

They should have had the win. Better D on that play or that other shot ends up on the other side of the post and they would have won. The one goal they did get was absolutely gorgeous.

[Tony Cloninger]

Being born in Uruguay....I was disappointed they could not come up with 1 goal at least. They had 2 good chances to do so.

[reds1869]

Two underdogs could have come away with huge wins today but were just short. Here's to hoping a certain underdog pulls it off tomorrow. :thumbup:

[guttle11]

Two underdogs could have come away with huge wins today but were just short. Here's to hoping a certain underdog pulls it off tomorrow. :thumbup:

Nigeria could well beat Argentina. ;)

[WMR]

It's important to note that for part of that time they were playing versus 10 men, but France was MUCH more dangerous with Malouda and Henry on the field.

Their manager needs to get over himself and put their best XI on the pitch.

[Tony Cloninger]

My father who was lucky enough to be at home watching the game....said a French player should have been red carded as well.

Uruguay has not had cohesive teams in the Cup since the 70's......most of the country expects more than what is usually the reality. Not surprising if they advance or if they don't make it out of the group to me.

[reds1869]

My father who was lucky enough to be at home watching the game....said a French player should have been red carded as well.

Toulalan could easily have been shown red instead of yellow in the 68th minute.

YouTube - 3. Yellow Card for France's Toulalan WM 2010 South Africa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL7nZflNdKc&feature=player_embedded)

[Yachtzee]

Good thing I picked up Vcast Video for the droid. On vacation @ my in-laws and the World Cup doesn't rate high enough for them to watch. Their old tv is having problems with the CRT too.

[Razor Shines]

Ian Poulter said that if England loses he'll play the first round of the US Open in his birthday suit.

Oh, and so this isn't a thread about the US Mutant Ninja Turtles?

[Cedric]

Milner over Joe Cole for Capello. That has to be about Donovan on the left.

Also Robert Green over James who is still nicked.

Ricardo Clark is in the lineup and Robbie Findley is up front. I'm not happy about Clark at all.

[Yachtzee]

Here they come!

[Buckeye33]

I'm not happy about Clark at all.

I think that just cost the US a goal against.

[RBA]

Seriously, they should outlaw all horns at these events. I can imagine people all over the US telling their spouse to turn the channel they can't stand the noise.

[Yachtzee]

Seriously, they should outlaw all horns at these events. I can imagine people all over the US telling their spouse to turn the channel they can't stand the noise.

It's not nearly as bad as for other games.

[Yachtzee]

Wooohooooo! Dempsey brings it level 1-1

[OldRightHander]

Soft goal, but I'll take it.

[MWM]

How can the US defense be this bad?

[Yachtzee]

Halftime and it's 1-1. What a game.

[Oxilon]

This has been a very sloppy game all around. That "goal" by Dempsey has been the epitome of this game thus far.

[Yachtzee]

How can the US defense be this bad?

I guess it's a trade off. The US can have great goalkeepers but bad D. England has better D but bad keepers.

[OldRightHander]

Howard is incredible so far. With a better D this team would be great.

[Yachtzee]

Man, this D is bad. Timmy will have to play out of his mind for the US to go far

[MWM]

One of these years, they'll wake up and stop being so damned proud, and go out and hire a legitimate international coach who. Bruce Arena an Bob Bradley are like watching when Mike Shula tried to coach against NFL teams.

[Yachtzee]

Is Finley actually adding speed? He doesn't seem to be beating anyone.

[MWM]

Lots of pressure from England right now. You get the impression it's just a matter of time.

[Yachtzee]

Well, the draw gives them a point against the group favorite.

[guttle11]

Great result for the US. The defense really stepped up over the last 50 minutes or so, swarmed Rooney with the exception of a few plays. Gooch and Cherundulo answered the bell. Howard was Howard, it's not even surprising anymore with him. Inches from a win, but a draw is nice. Go get the next two and hope to win the group on goals.

[MWM]

Good result.

I've gotta say that I'll be glad to see the Landon Donovan era come to an end. The guy has so much talent and I was sure he was going to be a force. But he disappears in pretty much every big game. He plays scared... no intensity at all.

That's why I think Altidore is going to be special. He's got the talent and the drive. Gonna be fun watching him the next decade.

[OUReds]

Good result.

I've gotta say that I'll be glad to see the Landon Donovan era come to an end. The guy has so much talent and I was sure he was going to be a force. But he disappears in pretty much every big game. He plays scared... no intensity at all.

That's why I think Altidore is going to be special. He's got the talent and the drive. Gonna be fun watching him the next decade.

Let's wait more then one game against one of the elite teams of Europe before we write off the best American player ever.

[Joseph]

So as an uninitiated, unwashed member of the masses....how does this work? Top one from each group goes on, or top two....?

[OUReds]

So as an uninitiated, unwashed member of the masses....how does this work? Top one from each group goes on, or top two....?

Top two from each group go on to a knockout stage (single elimination).

[Betterread]

Satisfactory result. I applaud Manager Bradley for taking a positive attacking approach to this match. With all our holes in defense, he could have played it safe and defensive and I would have understood why.
We really need 3 points in the next match.
Cherundulo was the defensive man of the match but Demerit showed a lot of ability, strength and endurance. He minimized Rooney's impact. Now if he just played with more tactical nous...along with the rest of the central defense.
Dononvan really impressed me. He failed to come up with scoring chances for himself but he played two beautiful balls in to Gooch and Altidore - each of whom squandered them. Also, Gerrard and Lampard were busy running around after Donovan so he helped to keep them distracted.
Maybe the best part is that we made England look nervous and tense and they don't respond well historically to those things. Capello really pullled the string on Milner and King quickly, perhaps ruining their confidence. Rather surprising.

[reds1869]

Good start for the US. We needed a point and we got it. Now on to six more in the final two matches.

[Yachtzee]

Good result.

I've gotta say that I'll be glad to see the Landon Donovan era come to an end. The guy has so much talent and I was sure he was going to be a force. But he disappears in pretty much every big game. He plays scared... no intensity at all.

That's why I think Altidore is going to be special. He's got the talent and the drive. Gonna be fun watching him the next decade.

I thought Landon played well. He was involved in play up and down the field the whole game. I wasn't a fan of Finley or Clark, and marking on the back line was bad.

[IslandRed]

One of these years, they'll wake up and stop being so damned proud, and go out and hire a legitimate international coach

Without taking a position on Bradley's coaching ability, I'll say this -- in my opinion, the U.S. national team gets better results relative to its talent base than most other countries do. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't think of another country that is a threat to not only make the World Cup but advance out of groups without having a single player who's a standout in a top-flight league. Tim Howard would be the closest we have to a star, I guess.

[WMR]

I thought Landon played well. He was involved in play up and down the field the whole game. I wasn't a fan of Finley or Clark, and marking on the back line was bad.

Landon played very well, just like he usually does.

Tim Howard and Steve Cherundolo --- Co-Men of the Match.

The defense really found their shape in the 2nd half.

[WMR]

Without taking a position on Bradley's coaching ability, I'll say this -- in my opinion, the U.S. national team gets better results relative to its talent base than most other countries do. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't think of another country that is a threat to not only make the World Cup but advance out of groups without having a single player who's a standout in a top-flight league. Tim Howard would be the closest we have to a star, I guess.

I've been a harsh critic of BB over the past couple years, but he has the boys playing unified and well above their overall talent level.

[Sea Ray]

So the hyped matchup of the USA vs the Mother country ends...in a 1-1 tie.

This is the reason I can't get excited about soccer. What's the use of going through all the hype and energy of a sporting event unless you end up with a winner and a loser? Why get all wound up if at the end of the day all you'll find is that you're equally matched? I won't even get into the "excitement" of watching an entire match and see one point scored for each team.

[reds1869]

So the hyped matchup of the USA vs the Mother country ends...in a 1-1 tie.

This is the reason I can't get excited about soccer. What's the use of going through all the hype and energy of a sporting event unless you end up with a winner and a loser? Why get all wound up if at the end of the day all you'll find is that you're equally matched? I won't even get into the "excitement" of watching an entire match and see one point scored for each team.

I'm a yank born and bred but have never understood the American aversion to ties. To honest, a draw against a superior side like England feels like a win to me anyway.

[WMR]

I'm a yank born and bred but have never understood the American aversion to ties. To honest, a draw against a superior side like England feels like a win to me anyway.

It absolutely feels like a victory. Cloud 9.

[Sea Ray]

I'm a yank born and bred but have never understood the American aversion to ties. To honest, a draw against a superior side like England feels like a win to me anyway.

Americans are very competitive and we're generally not into moral victories. We enjoy watching competition and if it didn't determine a winner then what was the point of competing? As an American I'd feel embarrassed to look any Englishman in the face and say that tie felt like a win. That means I've got lower expectations of my team than he has of his

[WMR]

For that imaginary Englishman, today's draw feels like a loss, I guarantee you.

England SHOULD have higher expectations for their team than America. Every single one of their starters is an all-star caliber player in the EPL. (Well, besides their GK, perhaps. :D )

A draw in group play where you win a point versus the best team in the group is NOT a moral victory.

[Betterread]

Americans are very competitive and we're generally not into moral victories. We enjoy watching competition and if it didn't determine a winner then what was the point of competing? As an American I'd feel embarrassed to look any Englishman in the face and say that tie felt like a win. That means I've got lower expectations of my team than he has of his
You are welcome to your perspective but it is an ignorant one. Many sports have ties - hockey, football, boxing, car racing, track and field, etc. Many Americans participate in those sports and are very used to ties. I guess you never noticed ties occurring so you formed an opinion out of that blindness. Just don't say you are speaking for "americans" because you don't speak for all the americans that encourage each other after ties in the sport they participate in.

[Sea Ray]

For that imaginary Englishman, today's draw feels like a loss, I guarantee you.

England SHOULD have higher expectations for their team than America. Every single one of their starters is an all-star caliber player in the EPL. (Well, besides their GK, perhaps. :D )

A draw in group play where you win a point versus the best team in the group is NOT a moral victory.

Kentucky often has a roster full of NBA players but as a Tennessee fan I get no satisfaction if the game went into OT. I'd be thinking about what all we could have done to win the game.

Personally I'd feel like a putz if I found myself excited about a tie but that's just me. To each his own...

[WMR]

Kentucky often has a roster full of NBA players but as a Tennessee fan I get no satisfaction if the game went into OT. I'd be thinking about what all we could have done to win the game.

Personally I'd feel like a putz if I found myself excited about a tie but that's just me. To each his own...

That's not a corollary. There are no ties in basketball. There's also no group play where the ultimate goal is to qualify as either the first or second best team in the group to move onto the knockout stages.

There are no ties in the knockout stages. Perhaps you'd be better off waiting until then to watch the games? :dunno:

[Sea Ray]

You are welcome to your perspective but it is an ignorant one. Many sports have ties - hockey, football, boxing, car racing, track and field, etc. Many Americans participate in those sports and are very used to ties. I guess you never noticed ties occurring so you formed an opinion out of that blindness. Just don't say you are speaking for "americans" because you don't speak for all the americans that encourage each other after ties in the sport they participate in.

Yes I am welcome to my perspective and your opinion of it as ignorant is just that: your opinion.

I have never liked ties in those other sports either. I very much wanted the NFL and NCAA to end ties.

I do not speak for all Americans and neither do you. We can speak as Americans.

I was answering the post that lumped Americans as a group having an aversion to ties. I merely continued the generality in my response. My apologies if that approach offended you.

[Sea Ray]

There are no ties in the knockout stages. Perhaps you'd be better off waiting until then to watch the games? :dunno:

I don't understand why they change the rules as this competition goes on but that's another issue.

Everytime this Cup comes around the question is asked "why Americans don't get into it". Well 1-1 ties is the reason.

If we'd have won 5-0 a lot of Americans would wake up and watch the next game.

[guttle11]

Everytime this Cup comes around the question is asked "why Americans don't get into it". Well 1-1 ties is the reason.

No it's not. The reason is because we aren't the best in the world, or at least near the best in the world. The USMNT didn't even qualify for the WC for 40 years, and there was no domestic league for decades. The MLS is the first viable, long term domestic league we've ever had. Tough to go from no WC interest to widespread WC passion in two decades, when 4 years of build up leads to "Well, we might be pretty good this time".

Soccer is growing in America, and our USMNT program is better than ever and continues to show improvement. If the MLS can continue to grow and get more name players (even well beyond their prime), soccer can become mainstream. It'll never be #1, but it can and probably will at some point become a solid #4 ahead of hockey.

[Cedric]

Landon is the greatest player in USA history and he played great tonight.

[Betterread]

Player ratings for the match from Goal.com

ENGLAND

Robert Green - 4 - Had little to deal with before somehow contriving to fumble Dempsey's shot over his own goal line on 40 minutes. The debate over England's No.1 intensified at that very moment. Needed the post to help him out when Altidore broke free in the second half.

Glen Johnson - 6 - Eager in attack, he almost produced an immediate response to Dempsey's equaliser with a neat run.

John Terry - 6 - Unable to make his presence felt in the opposition area at set-pieces due to some 'hands-on' tactics from the USA defenders. Secure and unhurried in defence.

Ledley King - 5.5 - Had performed well enough in the first half before being replaced by Jamie Carragher at half-time, presumably through injury.

Ashley Cole - 6 - A generally quiet night as he focused on nullifying Donovan, which he did to decent effect.

Aaron Lennon - 6 - Should have taken more responsibility and tested Howard when clean through on goal on 20 minutes instead of squaring across the face of goal, although did well to set up Heskey in the second half. Still not truly match fit after a lengthy lay-off, which begs the question why Capello didn't give him more of a run-out in the warm-up games.

Frank Lampard - 5.5 - Had a free-kick opportunity from fully 25 yards midway through the second half but blazed the Jabulani high and wide. Misplaced one pass straight out for a throw in to much jeering - a forgettable evening.

Steven Gerrard - 6 - Took just four minutes to show he wouldn't shrink from the responsibility of carrying the armband. Was a real marauder in the first quarter of the game, but his influence waned as America gained a foothold in the game.

James Milner - 4 - Perhaps fortunate to escape a yellow card for a clumsy challenge on Cherundolo early on before finally picking one up on 26 minutes. Substituted soon after, and fair to assume the stomach bug that threatened his inclusion was a major part in an abject showing.

Emile Heskey - 7 - Perfectly weighted pass set Gerrard through on goal for the early opener. Blew his chance to end the naysaying once and for all, though, when shooting straight at Howard with all the time in the world in the second half.

Wayne Rooney - 6 - Still nowhere near the mid-season form that set the Premier League alight. A headed chance on 70 minutes would have been buried in January, but not this time. Almost stunned Howard with a long-range snapshot.

Substitutes

Shaun Wright-Phillips - 6 - On after half an hour for the wilting Milner. A much livelier presence who immediately set about forcing Cherundolo on to the back foot.

Jamie Carragher - 5.5 - On for King at half-time. Lucky to escape any punishment at all for a body check on Findley as the American sprinted goalwards.

Peter Crouch - 5 - On for Heskey on 80 minutes. Quickly had a headed chance that he failed to direct on target.

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Tim Howard - 7.5 - Little chance when Gerrard was sent clean through on him early on. Took a hefty boot from Heskey but refused to buckle, and stared down the Aston Villa man when he was in on goal in the second half. Can return to the Everton dressing room next season with pride intact.

Steven Cherundolo - 6 - Had a handful of decent crossing opportunities in the opening quarter but couldn't produce the kind of delivery needed. Had the beating of an unfit Milner, but was booked for a foul on his replacement Wright-Phillips.

Oguchi Onyewu - 8 - Along with central defensive partner DeMerit, he refused to be intimidated by reputations and dealt with everything solidly. Perfect example of his night was how he tracked back to deny Lampard a clear shot on goal with the clock ticking down. Nobody contributed more to the USA cause.

Jay DeMerit - 7 - Got too close to Heskey for the opener which made the striker's lay off all too easy. Booked near the beginning of the second half but put in a sterling shift.

Carlos Bocanegra - 6 - Could have scored had he managed to direct Donovan's fierce free-kick on target in the second half. Only struggled defensively when Johnson overlapped to good effect.

Landon Donovan - 6.5 - Fabulous measured cross picked out Altidore six yards from goal on 18 minutes, but the striker headed wide. Some good set-piece deliveries, but Cole did a fine job of keeping America's true star quiet in open play.

Clint Dempsey - 7 - Had already shown his willingness to shoot from distance even before somehow beating Green with a tepid effort.

Michael Bradley - 6 - Held his own against the more heralded Gerrard and Lampard. Some incisive passing and always looked comfortable on the ball.

Ricardo Clark - 6 - Played his part in America's determined midfield effort without ever taking a starring role.

Jozy Altidore - 6 - Probably should have done better from Donovan's cross than head harmlessly low and wide. An even greater opportunity came in the second half but he was denied by a combination of Green and the upright.

Robbie Findley - 6 - Must have thought he was in on goal before being barged over by Carragher with 18 minutes to play. Booked soon after for a lunge on Gerrard.

Substitutes

Edson Buddle - N/A - Replace Findley on 77 minutes.

Stuart Holden - N/A - Short run-out in place of Altidore

[Caveat Emperor]

Say what you will about the "Ties prevent Americans from enjoying the game," but soccer is growing in popularity with each passing year. I'm just a casual fan myself, but I can never remember this much chatter about soccer happening -- even in previous world cup years. People at work were actually planning where they were going to watch this match.

Great game, great outcome. On to the next one for the Yanks!

[IslandRed]

Say what you will about the "Ties prevent Americans from enjoying the game," but soccer is growing in popularity with each passing year. I'm just a casual fan myself, but I can never remember this much chatter about soccer happening -- even in previous world cup years. People at work were actually planning where they were going to watch this match.

Getting England in the group and as the opening match really helped build anticipation, IMO. Not unlike a college football team that's opening with a premier opponent instead of a typical punching bag; you just... can't... wait.

[Yachtzee]

I could understand frustration with a tie if it had been a negative game where both teams were playing not to lose. However, this was a game where both teams were going for the win the majority of the game. As the underdog, it would have been easy for the US to pull a striker for more help on defense after getting to the second half tied up. The safe call would have been to bunker down and play for the tie. Instead, they kept after it and still came away with a point against a better team. Not only does that help their chances of advancing, it also gives them a shot @ top spot in the group, with an easier draw in the knockout rounds.

[WMR]

My ratings...

Tim Howard - 8

Steven Cherundolo - 8

Oguchi Onyewu - 7.5

Jay DeMerit - 7

Carlos Bocanegra - 6

Landon Donovan - 7.5

Clint Dempsey - 7

Michael Bradley - 6.75

Ricardo Clark - 5.5

Jozy Altidore - 6.5

Robbie Findley - 6

[Sea Ray]

No it's not. The reason is because we aren't the best in the world, or at least near the best in the world. The USMNT didn't even qualify for the WC for 40 years, and there was no domestic league for decades. The MLS is the first viable, long term domestic league we've ever had. Tough to go from no WC interest to widespread WC passion in two decades, when 4 years of build up leads to "Well, we might be pretty good this time".

Soccer is growing in America, and our USMNT program is better than ever and continues to show improvement. If the MLS can continue to grow and get more name players (even well beyond their prime), soccer can become mainstream. It'll never be #1, but it can and probably will at some point become a solid #4 ahead of hockey.

The reason we're not the best in the world is because our best athletes don't want to play soccer. if folks like Deion Sanders and Eric Davis played soccer we'd likely dominate.

I'm intrigued by what you folks see in a soccer game that keeps you glued to the TV. In this 1-1 tie, the US only had 4 shots on goal, England 6. So the US only had four chances to score. In the NFL a team has a chance to score on every snap. In baseball you can score on any pitch. What's exciting about action going on in the middle of the field?

I keep trying to give soccer one more chance and then I get a game like this. It seems as though about half the games so far have ended in ties.

[Reds]

Good draw. I like the outcome, even though the post had to keep it tied. :D

Loved the play of Howard in goal.

[Razor Shines]

I pretty much only watch soccer during the World Cup because I think it can be boring to watch at times. I played GK in high school, so I do think that it's fun to play.

Having said that, today's match was a lot of fun to watch. Tim Howard was fantastic.

As for the ties. The early matches are all about points. It's not like there won't be a winner and a loser in the end, it's just a different format of getting there. I don't think that's why it's not as big in America. There may be a point to be made about the lack of scoring chances.

[guttle11]

The reason we're not the best in the world is because our best athletes don't want to play soccer. if folks like Deion Sanders and Eric Davis played soccer we'd likely dominate.

I'm intrigued by what you folks see in a soccer game that keeps you glued to the TV. In this 1-1 tie, the US only had 4 shots on goal, England 6. So the US only had four chances to score. In the NFL a team has a chance to score on every snap. In baseball you can score on any pitch. What's exciting about action going on in the middle of the field?

I keep trying to give soccer one more chance and then I get a game like this. It seems as though about half the games so far have ended in ties.

I wouldn't say dominate, but if our best athletes grew up playing the game we'd certainly be among the best in the world, right with Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy and France and always a WC favorite.

For me it's the free flowing nature that builds toward goal. And it's not like football, baseball and basketball don't have down time, in soccer the ball just happens to be in play while things are kind of reset for the next attack.

I don't think anyone is claiming the US-England game to be a work of art. It wasn't a terrible match, but it wasn't an instant classic.

Your points are interesting, but the response I get most from non-soccer fans is about the clock. Unlike pretty much every other sport, the actual length of a soccer game is completely arbitrary. 90 minutes is a set guideline, but it's up to the referee to decide exactly how long the game will last.

[RawOwl UK]

Watched it in the local pub last night. Most fans felt it was 2 point lost (as I did).

BUT..

The US were well worth their point. Could have even won the game but for that great save from Green 2nd half (who i have sympathy with as that is just a freak error)

It was a premier league type game in a small stadium which I felt suited the US last night.

Heskey played as well as I've seen for a long time, still should have scored when clean through on goal. Rooney very quiet so credit to the US centre halfs for that. Not sure about bringing Wright Phillips on and playing him Left side !!!!

Press this morning questioning Fabio's selections, which is standard fair in this country when we dont get our own way.

Think the players need the Algeria game to come round ASAP now to get a win for their confidence.

I think England & US will finish top 2 . A draw in todays game will be great for both of us.

[RawOwl UK]

This is the reason I can't get excited about soccer. What's the use of going through all the hype and energy of a sporting event unless you end up with a winner and a loser? Why get all wound up if at the end of the day all you'll find is that you're equally matched? I won't even get into the "excitement" of watching an entire match and see one point scored for each team.

Last night was a classic example of why they SHOULD have draws & why football IS the greatest game on earth.

England were massive favourites last night. Went up a goal early.. only one winner from there right ? :)

US battled back, got some luck but fought so hard for that one point which could go a long way to taking them to the 2nd round.

IF the game went to penalties (lotto system) fair enough there would have been a outright winner. BUT would that have been the right way for the game to end after the 2 teams slugged it out for 90 mins ?


Draws are fine. Never take them away.

(I think Baseball would be suited to draws in regular season games also)

[reds1869]

(I think Baseball would be suited to draws in regular season games also)

The Japanese certainly agree. They allow games in their NPB to end in a tie.

Baseball is the greatest game on earth. But in my book soccer is a very close second. Here's to an England-USA rematch in the Final! :beerme:

[WMR]

Last night was a classic example of why they SHOULD have draws & why football IS the greatest game on earth.

England were massive favourites last night. Went up a goal early.. only one winner from there right ? :)

US battled back, got some luck but fought so hard for that one point which could go a long way to taking them to the 2nd round.

IF the game went to penalties (lotto system) fair enough there would have been a outright winner. BUT would that have been the right way for the game to end after the 2 teams slugged it out for 90 mins ?


Draws are fine. Never take them away.

(I think Baseball would be suited to draws in regular season games also)

I was hoping you'd stop by, Raw! :)

I'll be pulling for your boys from here on out. You guys deserve a deep WC run. We're still winning the group, though. ;)

[WMR]

Watched it in the local pub last night. Most fans felt it was 2 point lost (as I did).

BUT..

The US were well worth their point. Could have even won the game but for that great save from Green 2nd half (who i have sympathy with as that is just a freak error)

It was a premier league type game in a small stadium which I felt suited the US last night.

Heskey played as well as I've seen for a long time, still should have scored when clean through on goal. Rooney very quiet so credit to the US centre halfs for that. Not sure about bringing Wright Phillips on and playing him Left side !!!!

Press this morning questioning Fabio's selections, which is standard fair in this country when we dont get our own way.

Think the players need the Algeria game to come round ASAP now to get a win for their confidence.

I think England & US will finish top 2 . A draw in todays game will be great for both of us.

What are the papers saying about Green and the game? I bet they came up with some clever lines. :D

[Sea Ray]

Your points are interesting, but the response I get most from non-soccer fans is about the clock. Unlike pretty much every other sport, the actual length of a soccer game is completely arbitrary. 90 minutes is a set guideline, but it's up to the referee to decide exactly how long the game will last.

You think that's a good thing? I don't think an official should be in charge of how many innings are played in MLB or how many minutes are played in the NFL.

To those who are OK with ties, I hope you weren't one of the ones complaining when BudSelig ended that All Star game in a tie. He caught a lot of flak for that and rightfully so.

God Bless America

[Sea Ray]

Last night was a classic example of why they SHOULD have draws & why football IS the greatest game on earth.

England were massive favourites last night. Went up a goal early.. only one winner from there right ? :)

US battled back, got some luck but fought so hard for that one point which could go a long way to taking them to the 2nd round.

IF the game went to penalties (lotto system) fair enough there would have been a outright winner. BUT would that have been the right way for the game to end after the 2 teams slugged it out for 90 mins ?


Draws are fine. Never take them away.

(I think Baseball would be suited to draws in regular season games also)

At least you are consistent. I would hate for MLB to have ties even in exhibition games...see my thoughts on Bud Selig and the All Star game

Determining a winner on penalty shots is akin to determining a winner in baseball on home run derby

[improbus]

I always find it ironic that people on a baseball message board call soccer boring. I love baseball, but it can be the ultimate snooze-fest (unless you're really knowledgeable.)

Here's what I see that is changing. The younger generations aren't just playing more soccer, but they are watching more soccer. I teach high school and every year the kids know more and more about world soccer and come wearing more and more different kits. That is the biggest boost for soccer.

As for draws, I don't have a problem with them. I hate it when any sport forces some sort of artificial resolution on a game (like shoot-outs, etc...) If draws are a natural part of the game, don't change it. Really, the only thing you can do is increase the incentive to win and score goals. So, if the scoring system for the group stages were changed (like giving 3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie and awarding .5 points per goal, etc...)

[westofyou]

I always find it ironic that people on a baseball message board call soccer boring. I love baseball, but it can be the ultimate snooze-fest (unless you're really knowledgeable.)


Yep, soccer is a continuous flow of action, if "action" is "scoring" for some then soccer isn't a sport for you, trying to dissuade others from enjoying it based in the "scoring" argument fails to recognize that the world is not a square peg, round hole situation and that includes sports.

[Hoosier Red]

Americans are very competitive and we're generally not into moral victories. We enjoy watching competition and if it didn't determine a winner then what was the point of competing? As an American I'd feel embarrassed to look any Englishman in the face and say that tie felt like a win. That means I've got lower expectations of my team than he has of his

I agree with WMR's point lower. I don't think American's are any more competitive than say Brazilians. In group stages, the tie actually makes things more interesting from a strategy standpoint as it makes a difference between 1 team moving forward because they were smart enough to play for a tie. (For example, Slovenia now can(and will) play for ties agains England and the US and that will guarantee they can move forward.)

[dabvu2498]

I agree with WMR's point lower. I don't think American's are any more competitive than say Brazilians. In group stages, the tie actually makes things more interesting from a strategy standpoint as it makes a difference between 1 team moving forward because they were smart enough to play for a tie. (For example, Slovenia now can(and will) play for ties agains England and the US and that will guarantee they can move forward.)

I think the point you make is the exact issue some of the "competitive Americans" have a problem with... playing to tie.

I realize that in the big picture, it is a better, more competitive strategy, but it's hard for Americans to grasp because in the sports more popular here, that just doesn't happen.

The only comparison I could draw is a baseball team "playing to tie" in the 8th-9th inning in order to extend the game.

Anyway, I'm not a native soccer fan. The community I grew up didn't have youth soccer and by the time we moved somwhere that did, the game had sorta passed me by and I never played.

But my wife and her family are big soccer fans. I used to use Fox Soccer Channel as a means to fall asleep. The British accents and consistent crowd noise do it for me.

But through osmosis or something, I've picked up an appreciation for the game. I'm trying to grasp big picture themes of the sport now... who's good, what leagues are best to watch, who should I root for, etc.

But the World Cup has my interest, no question. Anytime guys suit up to play for their country, I'm likely to watch, regardless of the sport.

Edit: I also hate ties. But I also hate shootouts. But what I hate most is deciding things on stuff like goal differential or away goals and the like.

[Hoosier Red]

The reason we're not the best in the world is because our best athletes don't want to play soccer. if folks like Deion Sanders and Eric Davis played soccer we'd likely dominate.

I'm intrigued by what you folks see in a soccer game that keeps you glued to the TV. In this 1-1 tie, the US only had 4 shots on goal, England 6. So the US only had four chances to score. In the NFL a team has a chance to score on every snap. In baseball you can score on any pitch. What's exciting about action going on in the middle of the field?

I keep trying to give soccer one more chance and then I get a game like this. It seems as though about half the games so far have ended in ties.

That's a common line from sports talk types and sportswriters who quite honestly wouldn't know soccer if it reached up and bit them in the backside and there's some validity to it, BUT, the United States team is still almost always the most athletic side. What they lack is any technical skill comparable to their opponents. But as far as athleticism goes, there's a reason the US has had almost no world class players at any position but has had great goalkeeping since at least 1994.

Perhaps if they had a striker with Chad OchoCinco's speed, a midfielder with Allen Iverson's quickness, and a central defender Lebron James height and power, than it wouldn't matter how much skill they lacked, they'd just dominate physically.

The real difference is that in the past 100 years. Great coaches who had the mind to create brilliant tactics and form development plans to train young players devoted their time to basketball and football as opposed to soccer.

[westofyou]

The real difference is that in the past 100 years. Great coaches who had the mind to create brilliant tactics and form development plans to train young players devoted their time to basketball and football as opposed to soccer.

Good point, all the Pop Warners, Knute Rockne's, Almozo Stagg, John Heismans and Paul Browns were obsessed with their own burgeoning games, as were the Phog Allens's and John Wooden's with theirs. They had the horses and the opportunity to explore in that game while in other countries (where sometimes they like other things tan America.. THE HORROR) other guys were working on the burgeoning game of futball, a game that cost nothing but a ball to play, whereas our football was a game that fell out of college and was on that level for years pretty much locked into that area only, as in the game was not played on the streets and the empty fields of America, it took YEARS for that to occur.

As for basketball, a game that for years was niche sport played by some, not many in the winter when baseball was not played, and that as well was pushed by a large organization that ever present (YMCA) and embraced by HS around the country as a way to keep active boys busy in the cold winter. It was a pro niche sport until the 60's and wasn't big business for 20 years later.

[westofyou]

Edit: I also hate ties. But I also hate shootouts. But what I hate most is deciding things on stuff like goal differential or away goals and the like.

My intramural team lost the championship at OU on a tie (my buddy own goaled our own team) and the championship was decided on which team had the most corner kicks (as in they held the pressure and thus the game)

We played a 15 minute OT, and as a player who played all 105 minutes I can say that while a tie was not the preferred ending I don't think losing on a goal because of fatigue (and there was fatigue) would have been the suck too.

[reds1869]

You think that's a good thing? I don't think an official should be in charge of how many innings are played in MLB or how many minutes are played in the NFL.

It is just a different way of keeping time; the ref isn't arbitrarily guessing. They keep track of stoppages as the game goes on and add time on at the end of the half to account for stoppages. I've several times used my own stop watch to time along with the ref and am always within seconds...not much different than a scoreboard operator.

[improbus]

We also don't have the "street" game that many other cultures do. Clint Dempsey is perhaps the best example of what street-ball presents. He grew up playing on the streets of Texas with Latino kids and learning the natural game and the skill of improvisation. Americans don't have the same opportunities for that kind of play that other countries do.

[guttle11]

You think that's a good thing? I don't think an official should be in charge of how many innings are played in MLB or how many minutes are played in the NFL.

To those who are OK with ties, I hope you weren't one of the ones complaining when BudSelig ended that All Star game in a tie. He caught a lot of flak for that and rightfully so.

God Bless America

No, I don't like it, I would much prefer a clock that stopped for injuries and after goals. But I don't let it ruin the game for me.

I couldn't have cared less about the All-Star game tie. It's an exhibition, no one should really care about the final score.

[Sea Ray]

Yep, soccer is a continuous flow of action, if "action" is "scoring" for some then soccer isn't a sport for you, trying to dissuade others from enjoying it based in the "scoring" argument fails to recognize that the world is not a square peg, round hole situation and that includes sports.

I've never run into anyone who tries to"dissuade others from enjoying something". If it floats your boat, great. I was curious as to what drove some to get exciting about the sport.

As to baseball being boring as someone noted, I agree. For that reason it's not for everyone. But as boring as baseball is sometimes, you still have a chance to score on any given pitch. In soccer you only have a chance to score when you put a shot on goal, which for the USA was only 4. Getting excited about play at mid field is akin to getting excited about incomplete passes

[Sea Ray]

We played a 15 minute OT, and as a player who played all 105 minutes I can say that while a tie was not the preferred ending I don't think losing on a goal because of fatigue (and there was fatigue) would have been the suck too.

I agree with you. I don't think losing on a goal because of fatigue would have sucked. That would be preferable

[Sea Ray]

No, I don't like it, I would much prefer a clock that stopped for injuries and after goals. But I don't let it ruin the game for me.

I couldn't have cared less about the All-Star game tie. It's an exhibition, no one should really care about the final score.
You are in the minority. Selig really heard it because so many folks hated a baseball game ending in a tie

[Reds Fanatic]

The World Cup organizers are considering banning the annoying vuvuzelas.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ghUbctrzM88GqP_A_qJZppPbhjVw

[Eric_the_Red]

The World Cup organizers are considering banning the annoying vuvuzelas.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ghUbctrzM88GqP_A_qJZppPbhjVw

Good. As an American who wanted to watch the World Cup as a sort of introduction to soccer, I couldn't make it through a match because of the annoying noise. I had to watch the US game on mute.

[RawOwl UK]

As to baseball being boring as someone noted, I agree. For that reason it's not for everyone. But as boring as baseball is sometimes, you still have a chance to score on any given pitch. In soccer you only have a chance to score when you put a shot on goal, which for the USA was only 4. Getting excited about play at mid field is akin to getting excited about incomplete passes

I think you have kind of answered your own question.

The thrill of football (cannot stand the term soccer) is that scores are usually low which means when a goal is scored it means so much more than a run in baseball, a goal in Hockey, a 2/3 pointer in Basketball etc.

If a both teams do not overcome the defence the score will be 0-0. It's that simple.

For me it's in the blood. I dont know anything different. The country came to a standstill for 90 mins yesterday which is a fantastic thing really in big bad old world.

[RawOwl UK]

The World Cup organizers are considering banning the annoying vuvuzelas.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ghUbctrzM88GqP_A_qJZppPbhjVw

It's what they do in South Africa. Part of having the tournement in their country.

I dont like them BUT it's their World Cup.

[improbus]

It's what they do in South Africa. Part of having the tournement in their country.

I dont like them BUT it's their World Cup.
I love them. They annoy the heck out the snotty Western Europeans. That is fantastic.

[RawOwl UK]

The main problem for me with them you cannot hear any fans singing. Which makes every game the same. But thats the way it goes.

Earlier in the season my club Sheffield Wednesday handed some of these things out to kids on the turnstile.

They never got used again after that game :)

[Hoosier Red]

You are in the minority. Selig really heard it because so many folks hated a baseball game ending in a tie

This is a different issue, but Selig caught a lot of flak for not knowing what to do and changing the rules in the middle of the game. If both teams knew a tie was possible they would have managed differently most likely. Maybe the big stars would have played even shorter or longer but it would have been played differently. I think if teams knew a tie was possible, they would have done what they could to avoid it.

As for the tie, what you're missing in this is I think one thing American's don't take into account when deciding they don't like ties. I think this format is the way to make sure the best 16 teams move forward. Adding the possibility of a tie in group play, makes it more important to get a point.
Many people love the upsets in the NCAA tournament for example but when No. Iowa beats Kansas, that takes one of the best teams out of the tournament.
Butler was a great story but I don't think they were the 2nd best team in the NCAA tournament. Now maybe you like the downside of having teams which aren't necessarily "the best" move forward in exchange for the excitement of a winner and loser in each group.

In my opinion, the world cup format of having a group stage and then a knockout stage does the best at marrying the need for a winner and a loser to move forward, and the strategic interest created by having a group stage.

[Hoosier Red]

You think that's a good thing? I don't think an official should be in charge of how many innings are played in MLB or how many minutes are played in the NFL.



Well, the point I'll make isn't perfect because the referee has a lot more power in soccer, but the game/quarter/half doesn't end at 0:00 in American Football either. So long as a ball is snapped, the team can take as much time as it wants in scoring before the game ends. Soccer works like that in theory as well. The referee determines how much time is put on the clock, all the players and coaches are notified, and as long as a team is moving the ball forward when "time runs out"/full time is reached, they are able to "run their play," as soon as the other team is able to defend the game ends.


I'm not a vigorous defender because I think it would be easier for a viewer to follow if they knew when the clock would reach triple zeroes, but the running clock isn't as nonsensical as it looks.

[Yachtzee]

Well, the original way of settling ties was to play another game.

[WMR]

Germany easily the most impressive team of the tournament so far.

[guttle11]

Germany easily the most impressive team of the tournament so far.

I would put Argentina up there as well. Only a Herculean effort from the Nigerian keeper kept that game from being 4 or 5-0.

[WMR]

They should be ashamed of those dives, however.

[WMR]

I would put Argentina up there as well. Only a Herculean effort from the Nigerian keeper kept that game from being 4 or 5-0.

Argentina was very good but I still give the nod to Germany because their defense was so stifling... of course, they were playing with a man advantage for much of the time, but still, I'm not sure Australia ever really threatened.

[reds1869]

Well, the original way of settling ties was to play another game.

And that is still the way they do it in the F.A. Cup. It really is an interesting tie-breaking system.

[improbus]

And that is still the way they do it in the F.A. Cup. It really is an interesting tie-breaking system.

It is also only possible during a year-long tournament.

[WMR]

http://www.banvuvuzela.com

[reds1869]

It is also only possible during a year-long tournament.

Agreed. Even then, it is a pain when trying to rearrange fixtures. Just ask Arsene Wenger, he'll let you know how he feels. Over. And over. And over...

[OldRightHander]

http://www.banvuvuzela.com

Amen. Those things are annoying.

[Big Klu]

As a newcomer to soccer, I have a question for all of you more experienced experts.

When the World Baseball Classic was being played last year, you heard many fans complaining loudly about players participating, because they were afraid those players might get hurt and be unavailable for their clubs.

Do fans of top division soccer clubs feel the same way? Are fans of Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Inter, Juventus, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Barcalona, Marseille, Lyon, Bayern Munich, Ajax, River Plate, Flamengo, Corinthians and other top clubs in Europe and South America gnashing their teeth over the possibility that a key player for their favorite club might get injured during Cup play? If not, why not?

[improbus]

As a newcomer to soccer, I have a question for all of you more experienced experts.

When the World Baseball Classic was being played last year, you heard many fans complaining loudly about players participating, because they were afraid those players might get hurt and be unavailable for their clubs.

Do fans of top division soccer clubs feel the same way? Are fans of Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Inter, Juventus, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Barcalona, Marseille, Lyon, Bayern Munich, Ajax, River Plate, Flamengo, Corinthians and other top clubs in Europe and South America gnashing their teeth over the possibility that a key player for their favorite club might get injured during Cup play? If not, why not?
Of course, but unlike the WBC, they understand that the World Cup is the biggest event in the sport and that they cannot keep their players from participating.
I do think that they tend to convince older players to "retire" from international football.

[Chip R]

As a newcomer to soccer, I have a question for all of you more experienced experts.

When the World Baseball Classic was being played last year, you heard many fans complaining loudly about players participating, because they were afraid those players might get hurt and be unavailable for their clubs.

Do fans of top division soccer clubs feel the same way? Are fans of Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Inter, Juventus, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Barcalona, Marseille, Lyon, Bayern Munich, Ajax, River Plate, Flamengo, Corinthians and other top clubs in Europe and South America gnashing their teeth over the possibility that a key player for their favorite club might get injured during Cup play? If not, why not?

I would think that since the World Cup has been around for so long and it has such tradition amongst the fans of the participating countries, that World Cup takes precedence over club football.

Also, unless I am mistaken, there is no real World Series amongst the club teams. Man U doesn't play Santos for any championship or DC United doesn't play Real Madrid like the Reds would play the Cardinals. I know there are leagues that play schedules and hold championships but Man U can no more claim a world championship than can the LA Galaxy. They may play each other in friendlys but I assume those are exhibitions rather than games that mean anything.

Another reason could be that in baseball, we are more concerned with the pitchers in the World Baseball Classic. Not so much with the position players but their risk of injury is just as real. But you can recover from a hamstring or groin pull but pitchers' injuries are more along the lines of rotator cuffs and elbow injuries that may happen during the WBC or a few months down the road. Those injuries require more time to recover than a muscle pull would. They are also career threatening while it would be rare for a position player to suffer a career threatening injury.

[OldRightHander]

If the WBC had been played every four years since 1930, perhaps we would have a different attitude toward it.

[bucksfan2]

As a newcomer to soccer, I have a question for all of you more experienced experts.

When the World Baseball Classic was being played last year, you heard many fans complaining loudly about players participating, because they were afraid those players might get hurt and be unavailable for their clubs.

Do fans of top division soccer clubs feel the same way? Are fans of Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Inter, Juventus, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Barcalona, Marseille, Lyon, Bayern Munich, Ajax, River Plate, Flamengo, Corinthians and other top clubs in Europe and South America gnashing their teeth over the possibility that a key player for their favorite club might get injured during Cup play? If not, why not?

Its the nature of soccer. Players play so many games in different leagues in a given you. You have your league games (EPL), then if your team is good you have your Champions League games, then you have your National teams games. So not only do I think the players are more apt to play in more games but they do it on a year in year out basis.

Also take into consideration that most top notch leagues are right in the beginning of their off season. I don't know when they start playing games again but I think its around the time football does.

One other caveat is soccer for the most part requires natural physical movements. When you look at the WBC I don't think anyone would be complaining if it were just the hitters who took part. Its the pitchers who are thrown off their rhythm and when you deal with a violent unnatural motion that causes problems. Also unlike football, soccer isn't an extreme contact sport. Sure you are going to have injuries, but players aren't playing a violent game.

[Hoosier Red]

Also, unless I am mistaken, there is no real World Series amongst the club teams. Man U doesn't play Santos for any championship or DC United doesn't play Real Madrid like the Reds would play the Cardinals. I know there are leagues that play schedules and hold championships but Man U can no more claim a world championship than can the LA Galaxy. They may play each other in friendlys but I assume those are exhibitions rather than games that mean anything.


Well, there's the FIFA Club World Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_Club_World_Cup) but that's a somewhat recent invention.

The top leagues in Europe all combine for a Champions league, which if we're being honest is as legitimate as a World Championship going to the NBA or MLB winner. The best players wish to play in Europe, the top European clubs are the top teams much like the New York Yankees are probably unquestionably the top baseball team in the world.

[WMR]

If the WBC had been played every four years since 1930, perhaps we would have a different attitude toward it.

Exactly. Everyone the world over, from fan to player to manager to owner, understands that if you are fit and chosen to be a member of the 23 man roster, you go. Unquestionably. Every single time.

(Excepting players who retire from international competition, obviously.)

[Chip R]

Well, there's the FIFA Club World Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_Club_World_Cup) but that's a somewhat recent invention.

The top leagues in Europe all combine for a Champions league, which if we're being honest is as legitimate as a World Championship going to the NBA or MLB winner. The best players wish to play in Europe, the top European clubs are the top teams much like the New York Yankees are probably unquestionably the top baseball team in the world.


I take it that's for EPL teams, no? Is their schedule still going on while World Cup is?

[Hoosier Red]

I take it that's for EPL teams, no? Is their schedule still going on while World Cup is?

Oh yes sorry I misunderstood the question.

The FIFA Club World Cup is played in December, the Champions league is actually for all of Europes top leagues, and the matches are scheduled during the same months as the league matches. I think I read on another soccer thread that the teams usually play intra country league matches mid week and play outside of their league(whether it's Champions League or other inter-country leagues) on weekends.

[WMR]

Did anyone else hear the announcer who swallowed the cat on air during the end of the Netherlands - Denmark match? :lol:

Netherlands are always fancied, but I don't view them as serious contenders for this WC.

[Chip R]

Oh yes sorry I misunderstood the question.

The FIFA Club World Cup is played in December, the Champions league is actually for all of Europes top leagues, and the matches are scheduled during the same months as the league matches. I think I read on another soccer thread that the teams usually play intra country league matches mid week and play outside of their league(whether it's Champions League or other inter-country leagues) on weekends.

Actually, what I wanted to know is if it is business as usual for the EPL now or are they taking a break during the World Cup much like the NHL takes a break for the Olympics?

[WMR]

Actually, what I wanted to know is if it is business as usual for the EPL now or are they taking a break during the World Cup much like the NHL takes a break for the Olympics?

The EPL season runs from August to May. (As do the other major leagues in Europe and the rest of the world ... 'International Calendar')

[WMR]

That was a major discussion point during the creation of MLS. There was some considerable pressure to adopt the international calendar but they did not do so.

[Hoosier Red]

nm

[Reds]

Japan with a nice showing today

[reds1869]

Japan with a nice showing today

That was an impressive victory over a completely disorganized Cameroon. Eto'o and friends looked like they had never even met each other yet alone prepared tactics.

[Caveat Emperor]

That was a major discussion point during the creation of MLS. There was some considerable pressure to adopt the international calendar but they did not do so.

Which, as far as I'm concerned, was a good move. A startup league would be suicidal to go head-to-head with the NFL, NCAA and high school football on weekends in the fall.

I suspect MLS will move to the international format eventually, it's just an issue of when soccer in this country reaches a tipping point to where their fanbase (and TV coverage) will follow a move to the fall.

[Chip R]

The EPL season runs from August to May. (As do the other major leagues in Europe and the rest of the world ... 'International Calendar')

Thanks. Just curious.

[Hoosier Red]

On a new note. I keep reading where people feel like the United States "has" to win on Friday and I just don't agree at all. If we can agree that the US can and will beat Algeria, it's just a matter of the score, then the way the schedule worked out played perfectly for the United States chances at advancing.

They play Slovenia on Friday. Slovenia while clearly not as good as the United States has the advantage of being ahead in the group and will play to their strength(defense) and play for the tie. Given this, it would take a stunning display of ineptitude to lose the game. So worst case scenario, the US ties Slovenia and goes into their final game knowing exactly what they need to do to advance.

a) If England beats Algeria by 2 or more, then the US simply needs to beat Algeria by 2 goals to guarantee getting through.
b) If England beats Algeria by 1 than the US needs to beat Algeria by 1 to at worst tie England and Slovenia, or move ahead of whichever team loses that game. (I'm admittedly not sure what happens when the three teams all have tied, and have the same goal differential.)
c) If England ties Algeria, the United States just needs to win to move ahead of the England-Slovenia loser.

[reds1869]

We absolutely must win the group to have any hope in the knockout stages. Here are the likely opponents based on group placement.

1st in group
LAST 16 - GHANA
Q/F - MEXICO
S/F - BRAZIL
FINAL - SPAIN


2ND in group
LAST 16 - GERMANY
Q/F - ARGENTINA
S/F - SPAIN
FINAL - BRAZIL


It is rather obvious that finishing first gives a better chance at advancing deep into the tournament.

[Hoosier Red]

We absolutely must win the group to have any hope in the knockout stages. Here are the likely opponents based on group placement.

1st in group
LAST 16 - GHANA
Q/F - MEXICO
S/F - BRAZIL
FINAL - SPAIN

2ND in group
LAST 16 - GERMANY
Q/F - ARGENTINA
S/F - SPAIN
FINAL - BRAZIL


It is rather obvious that finishing first gives a better chance at advancing deep into the tournament.

Well that's definately true. I was speaking of simply getting out of the group stage. What's funny to me is how one game has reconfigured so many people's idea as to the toughest road to the quarters and semis. Before the tournament began, one writer was mentioning that finishing 2nd in the group may be more beneficial because Germany would be without Ballack and didn't look to be nearly as dominating as past squads and Argentina was such an unknown with Maradona going crazy through qualifying. In any event, the thought was the United States lucked out on the draw, not only because the group was easy, but also because the road to the quarters and semis was much easier.

One game in, Germany looks like Germany and Argentina looks like Argentina, and the US is looking for a position that moves them away from those two teams.

[OldRightHander]

Paraguay just scored an absolute beauty off a free kick against Italy. That was one of the prettiest goals of the tournament so far as far as I'm concerned.

[reds1869]

Paraguay just scored an absolute beauty off a free kick against Italy. That was one of the prettiest goals of the tournament so far as far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely stunning. It will be even more beautiful if they can hold off the Italian charge in the second half.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Absolutely stunning. It will be even more beautiful if they can hold off the Italian charge in the second half.

And they couldn't.
Italy just put one in on a pretty big mistake by the keeper. It was a cross that that he tried to punch out and missed completely and De Rossi made a nice sliding redirect inside the box for the goal.

[Reds]

Italy is 62 minutes in without a goal AND while I'm typing that they score. tied at 1-1.

[OldRightHander]

Absolutely stunning. It will be even more beautiful if they can hold off the Italian charge in the second half.

So much for that. Maybe they can score another.

[Reds]

I know it's tied now, but even a draw would be a surprise to me. But what could have been, bad goalie error.

[Yachtzee]

The EPL season runs from August to May. (As do the other major leagues in Europe and the rest of the world ... 'International Calendar')

Except the Russian and Scandinavian Leagues, which play a summer schedule, same as the U.S. The Ukraine plays an "International Calendar," but starts the season in July, ends it in June, and takes a 3 month break in the winter, so that it's more like a summer season.

FIFA wants the MLS to move to the International Calendar. However, in addition to the aforementioned competition with other pro leagues in the US, the concern from the American standpoint is that the winters in places like Toronto, Columbus, Chicago, Boston, New York, and Salt Lake City are more like Russia and Scandinavia than they are the milder winters of Western and Southern Europe.

[Chip R]

I know it's tied now, but even a draw would be a surprise to me. But what could have been, bad goalie error.


Lots of goalie errors so far. Is that unusual?

[NJReds]

Lots of goalie errors so far. Is that unusual?

I posted this earlier, but a lot of players complained about the new ball before the tournament started. It's apparently very light and very unpredictable in its movements. It alledgedly takes off and flies farther than a regular ball. I think the Brazilian goalie, Cesar, compared it to a ball that you'd get in a supermarket.

It certainly has caused fits so far this WC. The US is lucky to have Howard. He's one of the best keepers in the tournament.

[westofyou]

Was this game worth a revisit on my DVR tonight?

(Work ya know)

[Hoosier Red]

But don't the players complain about the ball every WC? I agreed with whomever said earlier that he didn't know why FIFA changes the ball around the year of the WC anyway but, the keepers complaining is not new.

[Chip R]

I posted this earlier, but a lot of players complained about the new ball before the tournament started. It's apparently very light and very unpredictable in its movements. It alledgedly takes off and flies farther than a regular ball. I think the Brazilian goalie, Cesar, compared it to a ball that you'd get in a supermarket.

It certainly has caused fits so far this WC. The US is lucky to have Howard. He's one of the best keepers in the tournament.


I've heard that but just passed it off to general soccer player whining.

[NJReds]

I've heard that but just passed it off to general soccer player whining.

I think you'd hear similar complaints from NFL or NBA players if they introduced a new, lighter ball right before the playoffs started.

In fact, it did happen once during an NBA season:


In June, 2006 the NBA announced that Spalding would be introducing a new official game ball for play beginning in the 2006 season. According to the NBA, the new ball is composed of a new material that offers better grip, feel, and consistency than the current leather ball. In 1970, the ball was transitioned from a four panel to an eight panel ball, and the latest ball design is comprised of two interlocking, cross-shaped panels that Spalding calls Cross Traxxion. The material is a microfiber composite with moisture management that is supposed to provide better grip and feel. According to the NBA press release, the new composite material eliminates the need for a break-in period, and provides greater consistency from ball to ball.

Despite the claims from the NBA and commissioner David Stern, there were several complaints about the new basketball. Many players have complained that the new ball is slippery, hard to hold and that the increased friction has even caused cuts on player's hands. Many elite players called for the NBA to bring back the old ball, even bringing a grievance to the National Labor Relations Board to revert to the original leather ball.

Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban asked several members of the University of Texas at Arlington physics department to test the balls. What they found, is that the new ball, when dropped from a height of 5 feet, bounced an average of 4 inches lower than the old ball. They also determined that the composite ball is slower to absorb moisture than the previous leather ball.

On December 11, 2006, NBA commissioner David Stern announced that the NBA would switch back to the old leather model starting at the beginning of 2007.

[guttle11]

Was this game worth a revisit on my DVR tonight?

(Work ya know)

Not really, unless you're the type that must watch every game. Had it's moments, but the virtually the entire second half was Italy pushing forward and Paraguay holding on for dear life. The rain made for a lot of through balls skipping past, slips, and generally stagnant play. Kind of resembled an old school Big Ten football game.

[westofyou]

Not really, unless you're the type that must watch every game. Had it's moments, but the virtually the entire second half was Italy pushing forward and Paraguay holding on for dear life. The rain made for a lot of through balls skipping past, slips, and generally stagnant play. Kind of resembled an old school Big Ten football game.

Thanks, I'll pass, I just don't want to miss good stuff... cause of work.

[texasdave]

On a new note. I keep reading where people feel like the United States "has" to win on Friday and I just don't agree at all. If we can agree that the US can and will beat Algeria, it's just a matter of the score, then the way the schedule worked out played perfectly for the United States chances at advancing.

They play Slovenia on Friday. Slovenia while clearly not as good as the United States has the advantage of being ahead in the group and will play to their strength(defense) and play for the tie. Given this, it would take a stunning display of ineptitude to lose the game. So worst case scenario, the US ties Slovenia and goes into their final game knowing exactly what they need to do to advance.

a) If England beats Algeria by 2 or more, then the US simply needs to beat Algeria by 2 goals to guarantee getting through.
b) If England beats Algeria by 1 than the US needs to beat Algeria by 1 to at worst tie England and Slovenia, or move ahead of whichever team loses that game. (I'm admittedly not sure what happens when the three teams all have tied, and have the same goal differential.)
c) If England ties Algeria, the United States just needs to win to move ahead of the England-Slovenia loser.

Here is an article that goes into detail about tiebreakers and such. If you finish this entire article, I believe you get 3 college credit hours.

http://webhome.csc.uvic.ca/~haron/FIFA/

[RawOwl UK]

Agreed. Even then, it is a pain when trying to rearrange fixtures. Just ask Arsene Wenger, he'll let you know how he feels. Over. And over. And over...

Good job he wasn't in charge back in 1979 when Arsenal played my team Sheffield Wednesday in this epic !!!!

3 Sat 6 Jan ARSENAL................. 1-1
3R Tue 9 Jan Arsenal.................1-1
3R2 Mon 15 Jan Arsenal................. 2-2
at Filbert Street aet
3R3 Wed 17 Jan Arsenal................. 3-3
at Filbert Street aet
3R4 Mon 22 Jan Arsenal................. 0-2
at Filbert Street

These were the days when the shootout system did not exist !!!!

[improbus]

Except the Russian and Scandinavian Leagues, which play a summer schedule, same as the U.S. The Ukraine plays an "International Calendar," but starts the season in July, ends it in June, and takes a 3 month break in the winter, so that it's more like a summer season.

FIFA wants the MLS to move to the International Calendar. However, in addition to the aforementioned competition with other pro leagues in the US, the concern from the American standpoint is that the winters in places like Toronto, Columbus, Chicago, Boston, New York, and Salt Lake City are more like Russia and Scandinavia than they are the milder winters of Western and Southern Europe.
One of the major advantages for the USMNT is that the MLS guys are significantly more fresh than the guys who play in European Leagues. MLS has been playing for a month or so and the Euro's haven't had any time off since last August. It isn't a coincedence that so many elite players bring injuries into the WC.
So, I hope that MLS keeps the schedule the way it is.

[reds1869]

Good job he wasn't in charge back in 1979 when Arsenal played my team Sheffield Wednesday in this epic !!!!

3 Sat 6 Jan ARSENAL................. 1-1
3R Tue 9 Jan Arsenal.................1-1
3R2 Mon 15 Jan Arsenal................. 2-2
at Filbert Street aet
3R3 Wed 17 Jan Arsenal................. 3-3
at Filbert Street aet
3R4 Mon 22 Jan Arsenal................. 0-2
at Filbert Street

These were the days when the shootout system did not exist !!!!

I was discussing that cup tie with one of Arsenal's team historians a few years ago at the Emirates. That is absolutely epic stuff.

[Hoosier Red]

One of the major advantages for the USMNT is that the MLS guys are significantly more fresh than the guys who play in European Leagues. MLS has been playing for a month or so and the Euro's haven't had any time off since last August. It isn't a coincedence that so many elite players bring injuries into the WC.
So, I hope that MLS keeps the schedule the way it is.

That's true, of course on the other hand, the MLS has to get a lot better before I'll be happy if even half of the team comes from the MLS.

Right Now I'm pretty sure the only true MLS players on the roster are Findlay and Buddle.

Donovan of course plays in MLS but he also is capable of going to European leagues at the very least in the MLS offseason.

[reds1869]

For those of you that don't read Soccer America and don't watch Colbert, I give you the following video. Especially those of you named RawOwl UK. :beerme:

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/38509/stephen-colbert-gets-his-digs-in-at-english.html

[NJReds]

Brazil - N. Korea are 0-0 at the half. Possession stat: Brazil 84% - Korea 16%.

Korea's playing a 5-3-2 and defending in great numbers. Must be a thriller.

[RawOwl UK]

For those of you that don't read Soccer America and don't watch Colbert, I give you the following video. Especially those of you named RawOwl UK. :beerme:

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/38509/stephen-colbert-gets-his-digs-in-at-english.html

Says video not available in my country :(

[RawOwl UK]

Brazil - N. Korea are 0-0 at the half. Possession stat: Brazil 84% - Korea 16%.

Korea's playing a 5-3-2 and defending in great numbers. Must be a thriller.

North Korea have been superb. You cant really blame Brazil, NK have just done a job on them.

NK have also been good on the ball for the small amount of possesion they have had. Need to concentrate early in the 2nd half now.

[RawOwl UK]

How does the coverage work in the US for the World Cup ?

Over here it's a protected event that is shared by the BBC & ITV so the whole country has no problems watching every game live. Sky cannot obtain the rights.

[NJReds]

How does the coverage work in the US for the World Cup ?

Over here it's a protected event that is shared by the BBC & ITV so the whole country has no problems watching every game live. Sky cannot obtain the rights.

ESPN/ABC owns the rights. So all of the games are televised live ... most on ESPN (cable) and a few on ABC (network).

Of course, you can get all the games live on the Spanish channel networks that are on "free" TV as well.

[RawOwl UK]

People talking about it at work etc ?

[westofyou]

People talking about it at work etc ?

Depends on where you work I suppose, I'm in an IT atmosphere, most of the guys and gals don't seem to care about sports in my team. But 18 million folks watched the game against England, more than watched the 4th game of the NBA finals, so there is some interest.

[NJReds]

People talking about it at work etc ?

Some chatter. There's not a lot of sports talk in general where I work, but I hear some talk.

The sports radio talk shows are hit-and-miss. Unfortunately, there are a lot of radio voices who don't like soccer, so instead of ignoring it they use the World Cup as an opportunity to bash the sport. I still don't get that mentality.

I'm in the New York City metro area, so there are big pockets of international fans. My neighbors are from Brazil. There are a lot of Italian fans nearby, too. In NYC, you can pretty much find a pub that's friendly to whichever country you root for.

[NJReds]

Depends on where you work I suppose, I'm in an IT atmosphere, most of the guys and gals don't seem to care about sports in my team. But 18 million folks watched the game against England, more than watched the 4th game of the NBA finals, so there is some interest.

That doesn't count the people who watch Telemundo (Spanish). I know quite a few people who speak Spanish and would rather watch their commentators. Add to that all of the folks who speak Spanish as their primary language.

[RawOwl UK]

Guys, not sure if you know about http://www.talksport.net/

pretty much wall to wall World cup coverage at the moment. A great alternative from the BBC. Some good presenters with good shows. Might be worth a listen if you want an insight to how we are seeing it from this side of the pond.

[reds1869]

People talking about it at work etc ?

The people I'm around are for the most part really into the World Cup. I'm a freelancer so I'm in and out of a lot of places. Interest is higher than any previous tournament I can remember.

[MrMcConnell]

Brazil - N. Korea are 0-0 at the half. Possession stat: Brazil 84% - Korea 16%.

Korea's playing a 5-3-2 and defending in great numbers. Must be a thriller.

Actually, the entire Cup so far has been disappointing from a fan standpoint. I can see why a lot of non-soccer fans really loathe the sport.

[RBA]

Coverage is available not only on ABC/ESPN, but on cell phones (Sprint for one), also on the web via ESPN3.com

[Yachtzee]

Actually, the entire Cup so far has been disappointing from a fan standpoint. I can see why a lot of non-soccer fans really loathe the sport.

Other than the Vuvuzelas, how so? Well, there have been a few dogs of matches. I only caught enough of Portugal v. Ivory Coast today to see Ronaldo fall down a few hundred times. However, I have to say that so far, ESPN's coverage has been light years ahead of what it's been in the past. I love the fact that they have set up shop in South Africa and brought in announcers and analysts from England and other soccer playing nations instead of trotting out some of the usual suspects like Marcelo Balboa, Eric Wynalda, and Dave O'Brien. Even ESPN stallwarts JP Dellacamera and Tommy Smyth have been relegated to radio duty.

[ochre]

I only caught enough of Portugal v. Ivory Coast today to see Ronaldo fall down a few hundred times.In his defense, the wind was blowing...

[Razor Shines]

People talking about it at work etc ?

I had a men's basketball rec league game tonight and there were guys on both teams talking about the World Cup. I've never noticed that before.

[MWM]

Ah, Ronaldo. My least favorite athlete in the world. He's the epitome of what I can't stand about some of the prima dona jocks.

[westofyou]

Actually, the entire Cup so far has been disappointing from a fan standpoint. I can see why a lot of non-soccer fans really loathe the sport.
It's 5 days of play in a month long jaunt, I could say the exact same thing about the first 6 weeks of the NFL season most years.

[Eric_the_Red]

The US played Saturday and don't play again until Friday. Is that length of time between games normal in soccer?

[reds1869]

The US played Saturday and don't play again until Friday. Is that length of time between games normal in soccer?

It depends as the world is a big and diverse place. Using the English Premiership as an example, Saturday is the "typical" day for matches though that is not as true anymore. Cup and European matches are typically played midweek. There are also Monday games for TV broadcast. The result is that teams tend to play two matches per week. The Championship (second tier) on down tend to play a slightly more congested schedule. Other nations have completely different setups.

[Cedric]

The US played Saturday and don't play again until Friday. Is that length of time between games normal in soccer?

It's an 8 group tournament so that's why the break. Usually the EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga games are Sat/Sun with an occasional midday fixture.

I think it averages out to about a game a week. 38 games from August to May.

[FutureRedsGM]

I'm really trying to get into this, but I just can't get past the off-sides rule. Can someone help me with a layman's explanation?

[westofyou]

If the top x is the ball, he can pass the ball to the bottom X, he's on side, but if he was past the far right zero he'd be off sides, he can't pass that zero and take the ball unless the top X passes it when the bottom X is still to the left of the zero, the same applies for Hockey, except it's only in your offensive zone.


X

X
0 0

[OldRightHander]

I'm really trying to get into this, but I just can't get past the off-sides rule. Can someone help me with a layman's explanation?

To over simplify it, you can't cherry pick.

A forward player receiving a pass played up to him can't be past all the defenders, not counting the keeper, when the pass is played. Once the pass leaves the other player's foot, he can then streak ahead and receive the pass, but he can't be past all the defenders before the pass is played to him.

[Yachtzee]

To over simplify it, you can't cherry pick.

A forward player receiving a pass played up to him can't be past all the defenders, not counting the keeper, when the pass is played. Once the pass leaves the other player's foot, he can then streak ahead and receive the pass, but he can't be past all the defenders before the pass is played to him.

That's about it. The easiest way to learn offsides is to watch the back line of defenders. If you see a forward beyond the last defender before the ball is played forward - offsides.

Is it me, or does it seem like guys with a path to the goal are dumping off instead of taking the shot. With the problems keepers have had so far, I would think they would shoot first.

[NJReds]

Another game where one team is willing to sit back and defend. Spain with 89% possession in the first half of yet another 0-0 match. Firsrt Paraguay, then North Korea, now Switzerland. Do any of these teams actually want to play?

[NJReds]

That's about it. The easiest way to learn offsides is to watch the back line of defenders. If you see a forward beyond the last defender before the ball is played forward - offsides.

Is it me, or does it seem like guys with a path to the goal are dumping off instead of taking the shot. With the problems keepers have had so far, I would think they would shoot first.

Problem with offsides is that it's nearly impossible to call. You have to have one eye on the passer, another on the person receiving the pass and you also have to note the position of the last defender. Now with "passive offside" it's even more difficult for the linesmen.

[WMR]

Swiss Bliss!

[Reds]

they'll do well to protect this lead, they'll have to defend a bunch of waves of offense

[NJReds]

Unbelievable. 17-1 in shots; 85%-15% in possession, and Spain is losing. I

It's a bad trend for this tournament if packing in a defense and hoping for a lucky goal becomes the norm.

[Tony Cloninger]

I think that is the strategerie of most of these teams...including my Uruguayan team. Afraid to lose the game rather than win it...in order to move on.

I always have debates with my father about how the sports in the US have always changed the rules to open up offense......but he will have none of it.
I think there could always be some sort of tweaks that could be done....like there were in the 60's after some brutal....muggish type games in the 1962 and 1966 World Cups.

[MWM]

It's a bad trend for this tournament if packing in a defense and hoping for a lucky goal becomes the norm.

That's exactly how Italy played every game and won the cup in 2006. Maybe teams took notice.

[OldRightHander]

Swiss almost with a 2-0 lead. Robbed by the post. What an opportunity that was.

[Cedric]

Unbelievable. 17-1 in shots; 85%-15% in possession, and Spain is losing. I

It's a bad trend for this tournament if packing in a defense and hoping for a lucky goal becomes the norm.

What did you expect from the Swiss? And definately against the Spanish.

[westofyou]

That's exactly how Italy played every game and won the cup in 2006. Maybe teams took notice.

Yep, winnng creates trends, clutching and grabbing and closing down the center of the ice by the Devils in Hockey dragged down that game in the 90's, win with the spread in CFB and all of the sudden even Michigan is trying it, the 4 corners, The Single Wing, T formation, 3 point shots... all led to trends, trends create change and sometimes the change is stagnating the game.

That's what we're seeing with the the following of Italy's lead, uninteresting games on the average and little inventive movements with the ball, and that's a shame because that's the beauty of the game.

[NJReds]

That's exactly how Italy played every game and won the cup in 2006. Maybe teams took notice.

I bet there every game was close to 50-50 in possession for Italy in that World Cup. I'm also pretty sure that they were never outshot 17-1. There's a difference between controlling midfield play and counterattacking, and lining up 8 men in the box and never leaving your side of the field except for the odd longball.

[NJReds]

What did you expect from the Swiss? And definately against the Spanish.

Seems more pronounced in this World Cup. Paraguay, North Korea and now Switzerland (which isn't a bad team at all), barely left their side of the field.

I can understand a 60-40 split ... but some of these games are bordering on 90% possession for one team.

[Cedric]

Seems more pronounced in this World Cup. Paraguay, North Korea and now Switzerland (which isn't a bad team at all), barely left their side of the field.

I can understand a 60-40 split ... but some of these games are bordering on 90% possession for one team.

I agree it's been bad. I just don't see anything that odd within this match. The Swiss always pack in men in the box and Spain is the best possession football team in the world.

[NJReds]

I agree it's been bad. I just don't see anything that odd within this match. The Swiss always pack in men in the box and Spain is the best possession football team in the world.

I saw Switzerland play a very fluid game recently ... but it was a friendly. Hey, it worked for them. They're on the verge of an upset.


Chile manhandled Honduras. Sometimes I think the tremendous home field advantage that the smaller CONCACAF teams enjoy is a big disadvantage when they leave the continent. In an odd way, the US probably benefits from not having a true home field advantage except when they play in Columbus or Seattle.

[OldRightHander]

This match between Spain and Switzerland is quite entertaining during the last few minutes. A lot of attacking by the Spanish and the Swiss have had some good chances.

[oneupper]

Swiss upset Spain 1-0. Partying in Zurich and Basel! (They will clean up nicely afterwards).

[Reds]

What an upset. They defended well enough to win and got the advantageous goal.

[WMR]

If you're playing at a massive talent deficit, it's the smartest strategy for a team to employ by far, IMO.

Italy just plays negative soccer by nature.

[OldRightHander]

Italy just plays negative soccer by nature.

Well, when your team is coached by Greg Louganis...

[Yachtzee]

Seems more pronounced in this World Cup. Paraguay, North Korea and now Switzerland (which isn't a bad team at all), barely left their side of the field.

I can understand a 60-40 split ... but some of these games are bordering on 90% possession for one team.

Well, at least some of these teams will be whittled down after the group rounds. It didn't seem so bad after the first few days, where it just seemed to be a few teams willing to sit back and wait for a fortuitous counter. After today, I have to say it's starting to become too much of a trend. I didn't see the Brazil-North Korea game, but I've heard that even Dunga has the Brazilians playing more of a defend and counter attack as of late.

Here's to hoping the teams favoring an attacking style, the Germans, Dutch, English, etc., can do well enough to swing the pendulum back to fun offense-oriented soccer.

[Roy Tucker]

A couple comments about offside...

- onside/offside call is made at the time of the pass. after the ball is struck, it doesn't matter and the pass recipient(s) can sprint behind the defense.

- a player can be offsides and have it not matter if they are not involved in an active play, such as way over on the other side of the field.

Having reffed soccer, its a very difficult call, especially when the defense tries a lot of offside traps. You need 3 eyes to see it all.

[Yachtzee]

A couple comments about offside...

- onside/offside call is made at the time of the pass. after the ball is struck, it doesn't matter and the pass recipient(s) can sprint behind the defense.

- a player can be offsides and have it not matter if they are not involved in an active play, such as way over on the other side of the field.

Having reffed soccer, its a very difficult call, especially when the defense tries a lot of offside traps. You need 3 eyes to see it all.

It's definitely much easier to see on TV than it is at field level.

[NJReds]

Well, at least some of these teams will be whittled down after the group rounds. It didn't seem so bad after the first few days, where it just seemed to be a few teams willing to sit back and wait for a fortuitous counter. After today, I have to say it's starting to become too much of a trend. I didn't see the Brazil-North Korea game, but I've heard that even Dunga has the Brazilians playing more of a defend and counter attack as of late.

I don't really have a problem w/defend and counter. France got to the 2006 final with that style ... and a couple Henry dives that resulted in PKs.

But it seems to have hit a rather absurd extreme the past few days. Maybe there are too many minnows ... perhaps it'd be a better tournament if they went back to 24 teams.

I think Dunga's smart. If you push too much ... like Spain today ... the defensive team could get lucky with a long ball. You have to play some defense and can't go all-out on attack for 90 minutes. But I know that Brazilian fans are ticked at Dunga for his apparent shift to more defensive minded soccer.

Uruguay - South Africa should be entertaining.

[Yachtzee]

Anyone see this yet? USA-England in Legos!

YouTube - USMNT-ENG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUnU3B6WsJ4&feature=player_embedded)

[oneupper]

"...Suddenly the USA are on terms"

Geez, I wish I could speak English.

[Yachtzee]

"...Suddenly the USA are on terms"

Geez, I wish I could speak English.

Leave it to the British to make a sporting event sound like a diplomatic negotiation. ;)

[OldRightHander]

You had to know this was coming sooner or later.

http://www.antivuvuzelafilter.com

[bucksfan2]

I don't really have a problem w/defend and counter. France got to the 2006 final with that style ... and a couple Henry dives that resulted in PKs.

I may not know much about strategy or what makes a well played game, but, in the 2006 WC Zidane was the most dominant soccer player I have ever seen. He controlled the middle of the field and dictated where the ball was going. Sadly one head butt and that is all but forgotten.

[Yachtzee]

http://www.partymakerdiscountmegastore.com/331/products/3/38045449.jpg

Diego Forlan

[OldRightHander]

http://www.partymakerdiscountmegastore.com/331/products/3/38045449.jpg

Diego Forlan

Amazing shot there. Not looking good for the home team.

[RawOwl UK]

Unbelievable. 17-1 in shots; 85%-15% in possession, and Spain is losing. I

It's a bad trend for this tournament if packing in a defense and hoping for a lucky goal becomes the norm.

It very rarely works against teams as good as Spain. You cannot blame the Swiss for using that tactic though. While it was 0-0 they had to do that and frustrate Spain, this maybe led to their goal with Spain switching off at the back.

Possesion stats make me laugh a little. Some teams play crab football passing across the pitch and back again going nowhere. Does this mean they have had the best of the game ?

Stats in football are pretty useless (shots on goal !!! powder puff Dempsey esque efforts count when really it was as good as a back pass from to the keeper from a defender). It's the wins, goals for and against column that usually tell the story.

[OldRightHander]

Stats in football are pretty useless (shots on goal !!! powder puff Dempsey esque efforts count when really it was as good as a back pass from to the keeper from a defender). It's the wins, goals for and against column that usually tell the story.

I think the shots IN goal stat usually tells a lot more than shots ON goal.

[FutureRedsGM]

If the top x is the ball, he can pass the ball to the bottom X, he's on side, but if he was past the far right zero he'd be off sides, he can't pass that zero and take the ball unless the top X passes it when the bottom X is still to the left of the zero, the same applies for Hockey, except it's only in your offensive zone.


X

X
0 0

That is a great explanation and I can definitely understand that. I still don't get it though. Instead of gaining an advantage by out-hustling the D, you get penalized for it.

[Chip R]

I take it they don't play any night games in the World Cup. Is that because the stadiums don't have lights or is that tradition that soccer isn't played at night?

[Boss-Hog]

I take it they don't play any night games in the World Cup. Is that because the stadiums don't have lights or is that tradition that soccer isn't played at night?
They do play night games (the last one starts at 8:30 PM local time) but South Africa is six hours ahead of those of us in EST. :)

[Chip R]

They do play night games (the last one starts at 8:30 local time) but South Africa is six hours ahead of those of us in EST. :)

They are a very southern country. Is it dark there at that time of evening?

[Boss-Hog]

They are a very southern country. Is it dark there at that time of evening?
Oh yeah, good point...hadn't thought about that. :) I'm not positive the answer to your question, but I wouldn't think so. Hopefully someone else knows for sure...

[reds1869]

They are a very southern country. Is it dark there at that time of evening?

It is dark for the 8:30 games. It is winter in South Africa so it is getting dark considerably earlier than it is here.

[Chip R]

It is dark for the 8:30 games. It is winter in South Africa so it is getting dark considerably earlier than it is here.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

[Hoosier Red]

They are a very southern country. Is it dark there at that time of evening?

Well it's the southern hemisphere, so I'd imagine it's dark at 8:30. Wouldn't 8:30 in June there be like 8:30 in December here?