Manny Ramirez?

[Grande Donkey]

Could the Reds be looking at this? Tim Brown says the White Sox, Rays and a mystery team have all been discussing this possibility. Could Walt be trying to shock the world?

[Grande Donkey]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/white-sox-made-failed-run-at-manny-ramirez.html

[BringDownMugabe]

Pros:
- Post-Season Experience
- Wouldn't cost too much
- Add a great bat to our lineup
- Get Gomes out of the everyday lineup

Cons
- He's defense may be worse than Gomes
- It's Manny freakin' Ramirez

[muddie]

Please don't trade for this guy. I have zero respect for him.

[ian_madden]

Can this town handle Chad, TO and Manny? I think so.

[GIDP]

Id swap him and Arroyo with out thinking twice about it.

[muddie]

Id swap him and Arroyo with out thinking twice about it.

Ringling Brothers one time a week is enough. Arroyo is better than he gets credit for here. Wood and Leake are promising but unproven. You're not going to get the innings Arroyo can give you from many guys.

I believe the organization can resolve most needs internally with what is already here, including the minors. Better dugout decisions would be a big start. I hope Walt doesn't make a mistake at the deadline. I really believe he is smarter than most GMs and believe he will make the right moves, even if it means sitting tight. Again, the Reds are losing some games from the dugout in my opinion. That is no reason to start trading away good players.

[couch_manager]

He's a shadow of his former self. No thanks. Yeah, trade him for Arroyo...then Arroyo's replacement in the rotation is going to be...another rookie...or...Bailey or Harang? :rolleyes:

[GIDP]

He's a shadow of his former self. No thanks. Yeah, trade him for Arroyo...then Arroyo's replacement in the rotation is going to be...another rookie...or...Bailey or Harang? :rolleyes:

If the Reds cant replace 4.20 ERA guy who isnt striking anyone out, and is living off a career low BABIP it likely wont matter anyways.

There are massive warning signs right now for Arroyo. Super low K rate. His BB rates are up. His xFIP is 4.94. Hes out performed his xFIP over the years but never with a BABIP that low. Basically hes an average pitcher who is skating by on what a lot of people would consider a good chunk of luck.

[mroby85]

If the Reds cant replace 4.20 ERA guy who isnt striking anyone out, and is living off a career low BABIP it likely wont matter anyways.

There are massive warning signs right now for Arroyo. Super low K rate. His BB rates are up. His xFIP is 4.94. Hes out performed his xFIP over the years but never with a BABIP that low. Basically hes an average pitcher who is skating by on what a lot of people would consider a good chunk of luck.

I would consider many of these stats a good chunk of garbage. Some guys are just good pitchers, and know how to pitch. He's been consistently solid for this team for several years, not all good pitchers have a ton of strikeouts. In fact, maybe learning to pitch has made him a better pitcher. He's also among the league leaders in 8 inning games with 1 or less ER. I'm not saying I wouldn't trade him for Manny, because I love the idea of him in this lineup, and have for a couple years now, but Arroyo is a solid pitcher, that couldn't be easily replaced by bailey or harang.

Also, wouldn't manny being on the DL effect them being able to trade him?

[DocRed]

He's a shadow of his former self. No thanks. Yeah, trade him for Arroyo...then Arroyo's replacement in the rotation is going to be...another rookie...or...Bailey or Harang? :rolleyes:

That shadow is still hitting .317 with a .409 OBP and .925 OPS....still pretty damn close to his career numbers of .313, 4.11 OBP, 1.000 OPS

[muddie]

If the Reds cant replace 4.20 ERA guy who isnt striking anyone out, and is living off a career low BABIP it likely wont matter anyways.

There are massive warning signs right now for Arroyo. Super low K rate. His BB rates are up. His xFIP is 4.94. Hes out performed his xFIP over the years but never with a BABIP that low. Basically hes an average pitcher who is skating by on what a lot of people would consider a good chunk of luck.

For the record, Arroyo's last ten starts look like this:

3.49 ERA
Averaging 6.9 innings pitched per game.
Seven of his last ten he has gone at least seven innings, shortest outing five innings.
If you want to find a weakness, you could point to his 19 BB vs. 30 K's. I don't believe that is much to get excited about though if you're looking for a down side.

How are you going to replace this? The Reds don't have this guy in the system right now without making a lot of huge assumptions.

[couch_manager]

That shadow is still hitting .317 with a .409 OBP and .925 OPS....still pretty damn close to his career numbers of .313, 4.11 OBP, 1.000 OPS

He's had more than 20 homeruns once since 2007. He's on pace to have only 350 AB's once again this year...the guy's always hurt.

[mroby85]

For the record, Arroyo's last ten starts look like this:

3.49 ERA
Averaging 6.9 innings pitched per game.
Seven of his last ten he has gone at least seven innings, shortest outing five innings.
If you want to find a weakness, you could point to his 19 BB vs. 30 K's. I don't believe that is much to get excited about though if you're looking for a down side.

How are you going to replace this? The Reds don't have this guy in the system right now without making a lot of huge assumptions.

If this was facebook, I would like it! lol

[GIDP]

I would consider many of these stats a good chunk of garbage. Some guys are just good pitchers, and know how to pitch. He's been consistently solid for this team for several years, not all good pitchers have a ton of strikeouts. In fact, maybe learning to pitch has made him a better pitcher. He's also among the league leaders in 8 inning games with 1 or less ER. I'm not saying I wouldn't trade him for Manny, because I love the idea of him in this lineup, and have for a couple years now, but Arroyo is a solid pitcher, that couldn't be easily replaced by bailey or harang.

Also, wouldn't manny being on the DL effect them being able to trade him?

Im not suggesting you need to be a high K pitcher to have success but Arroyo is all the way down 4.3 per 9. Thats a low low amount of strike outs. His stats this year look a ton like Josh Foggs career numbers. The only diference is hes giving up less hits, and when I look at his BABIP which for the most part a pitcher cant control its almost .40 points lower than what even the best of pitchers normally have.

I'm not sold that hes going to continue to have that type of production because with his statistics he should be throwing an ERA closer to 5 than it is to 4.

Just consider me completely skeptical that hes going to continue to out produce what the numbers say he should be doing.

[jmac]

If this was facebook, I would like it! lol
Agree ! :)