Golf's Rules are Bunk

[MWM]

I can't stand about 90% of what comes from Rick Reily, but he's spot on with this one about how dumb some of golf's rules are.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=5470940

[RFS62]

There's nothing wrong with the rule about not grounding your club in a bunker or hazard.

There's plenty wrong with the PGA setting the course up and calling those pitiful sand filled depressions hazards.

And if you do chose to do that, how on earth can you let the gallery stand in them?

That's the crime here.

It's all on the PGA.

[westofyou]

There's nothing wrong with the rule about not grounding your club in a bunker or hazard.

There's plenty wrong with the PGA setting the course up and calling those pitiful sand filled depressions hazards.

And if you do chose to do that, how on earth can you let the gallery stand in them?

That's the crime here.

It's all on the PGA.

Plus, placing flyers around to inform everyone of the hazards is a little small-time if you ask this non-golfer.

It is a pro event, manage news to the participants in a way that belies that fact.

[Chip R]

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/TV-viewer-busts-Juli-Inkster-gets-her-DQ-d-from?urn=golf-264211

[MWM]

There's nothing wrong with the rule about not grounding your club in a bunker or hazard.

There's plenty wrong with the PGA setting the course up and calling those pitiful sand filled depressions hazards.

And if you do chose to do that, how on earth can you let the gallery stand in them?

That's the crime here.

It's all on the PGA.

That's exactly how I feel about.

[SunDeck]

The DQ of Furyk (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/08/26/2010-08-26_late_furyk_gets_dqd.html) seemed pretty lame. It's my understanding that not all the players even do the pro-am, which in the bizzaro PGA world means a player is smarter to skip it than to risk missing his tee time.


"I cannot disagree with it more," said Mickelson, who played with Mayor Bloomberg in the Pro-Am. "I have no idea how the commissioner let this rule go through. It's ridiculous."


Then again, there still is such a thing as a wake up call.

[Chip R]

The DQ of Furyk (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2010/08/26/2010-08-26_late_furyk_gets_dqd.html) seemed pretty lame. It's my understanding that not all the players even do the pro-am, which in the bizzaro PGA world means a player is smarter to skip it than to risk missing his tee time.

Unless I'm mistaken, these amateurs pay a lot of money to play in the pro-am. If Golfer X no shows the event, Amateur Y is gonna be pretty ticked off that his pro didn't play with him. I think a DQ is a bit extreme but fining these guys may not have done the trick.

[SunDeck]

Unless I'm mistaken, these amateurs pay a lot of money to play in the pro-am. If Golfer X no shows the event, Amateur Y is gonna be pretty ticked off that his pro didn't play with him. I think a DQ is a bit extreme but fining these guys may not have done the trick.

Absolutely, make him pay the guy's entry fee. He was five minutes late, I think. Something could have been worked out.

[Chip R]

Absolutely, make him pay the guy's entry fee. He was five minutes late, I think. Something could have been worked out.


It's bunk he was DQed cause he was 5 minutes late. Furyek made an honest effort to get there. But there had to be some reason they made the rule to penalize the golfers so draconian. Money isn't going to replace the thrill of playing with your pro. Money they have or else they wouldn't pay for that event.

Let's say you're a huge Tiger Woods fan and you have put up a good sum of money to play in a pro-am with him. You'll get your picture taken with him and have all these stories about how you played golf with Tiger. You will be the envy of your peers. But Tiger decides at the last minute to go over to the IHOP and pick up a waitress. While you are on the tee with nothing but your driver in your hands, Tiger's back at the motel doing what he does. Sure, the tournament will give you your money back and fine Tiger but fining him is like throwing a deck chair off the Titanic. So they use the threat of the DQ to keep them from blowing the pro-am off. Obviously there should be some middle ground but the pro-ams are good for business.

[SunDeck]

It's bunk he was DQed cause he was 5 minutes late. Furyek made an honest effort to get there. But there had to be some reason they made the rule to penalize the golfers so draconian. Money isn't going to replace the thrill of playing with your pro. Money they have or else they wouldn't pay for that event.

Let's say you're a huge Tiger Woods fan and you have put up a good sum of money to play in a pro-am with him. You'll get your picture taken with him and have all these stories about how you played golf with Tiger. You will be the envy of your peers. But Tiger decides at the last minute to go over to the IHOP and pick up a waitress. While you are on the tee with nothing but your driver in your hands, Tiger's back at the motel doing what he does. Sure, the tournament will give you your money back and fine Tiger but fining him is like throwing a deck chair off the Titanic. So they use the threat of the DQ to keep them from blowing the pro-am off. Obviously there should be some middle ground but the pro-ams are good for business.

All that way just to take a jab at Tiger? ;)
You might be right- a dq might keep guys from blowing off the pro-am. Then again, with the exception of John Daly, how many of these guys are likely to do that? If they don't have any interest in the event, I don't believe they are under any obligation to sign up for it.

[Chip R]

All that way just to take a jab at Tiger? ;)

You have to admit it's a good example and quite probable.



You might be right- a dq might keep guys from blowing off the pro-am. Then again, with the exception of John Daly, how many of these guys are likely to do that? If they don't have any interest in the event, I don't believe they are under any obligation to sign up for it.

I'm sure most of the pros - including Furyek - wouldn't do this on purpose. But there may be a few that had a late night the night before and don't want to shlep to the course that early for something that won't benefit them. Like I said, I don't think they put that DQ rule in there just for the heck of it. This had to have been a problem before that and they felt the DQ was just the right stick to convince the pros not to blow off the pro-ams.

[Hoosier Red]

You might be right- a dq might keep guys from blowing off the pro-am. Then again, with the exception of John Daly, how many of these guys are likely to do that? If they don't have any interest in the event, I don't believe they are under any obligation to sign up for it.

It is made to keep players from blowing it off. I don't know how a player is assigned the Pro-Am for a certain week, but before players would call out of the Pro-Am citing injury, and then show up Thursday perfectly fine.

While the Pro-Am is great for the PGA in general, you have to realize it's not particularly fun for the player. 1) The rounds take forever 2) You don't get to really practice anything because you're expected to "entertain" the guest players instead of working out a few different shots you might need to hit, and 3)It's not your sponsors that you get to necessarily be helping.

Imagine Peyton Manning going through film with a lucky fan on a Saturday night. Now he'd go through film anyway, but in order to make the experience worthwhile, he probably would have to be a little bit more personable and would possibly miss out on something.

So a lot of players blew it off. Like I said, the one thing I'm curious about is how players are drawn for this. Is it always the top 50 players in the tournament? Or is it a lottery where 50 of the entered players are drawn out? Or do you have a few exemptions where you can decide not to play in the Pro-AM but you are okay to play on Thursday?

[SunDeck]

He was late- not blowing it off or kneeling over the hotel toilet with a hangover. According to this article, the rule is there to keep players from hurting the franchise (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/golf/sc-spt-0826-notes-golf-module--20100826-7,0,5216321.story), but seriously, he was late, not absent. And even though the rule is about keeping players from offending someone who pays a high price to show pros how awful they are at golf, the fact is he was still dq'd right? Or did he get to actually play in the pro am and couldn't play in the tournament?

[Hoosier Red]

No I understand that the DQ is rather draconian especially for this instance. However if there's one thing about golf rules, it's usually open and shut with little room left for interpretation.

Late = not there = DQ
Same as if he'd been 5 minutes late for a Tee Time.

Sucks to be Furyck though I'll grant you.

[SunDeck]

Sucks to be Furyck though I'll grant you.

Indeed- the guy is so often in the top 20 that he has to be leaving a boatload of money behind with the dq.

[Redhook]

These pro-ams are essential to the Tour, but they are a huge problem as well. I don't know exactly how everything works on Tour, but let me clarify a few things about these pro-ams.

1) Players don't choose to play in them, they're assigned. Pretty much, the top ranked players each week have to play in the pro-ams. 18 guys in the morning and 18 in the afternoon. I'm not sure if they get any outs, like one freeby a year or something of the sort.

2) When a player no-shows or is a late, another PGA Tour player plays with the group. Typically, there will be 4 players on-site assigned to be there from approximately 6:30-8:30 AM. Then another group of 4 will be there from 11:30-1:30. The players will practice during this time, but are on-call if there's a problem. I'd venture to guess each player on Tour has to be "on-call" 2-4 times per year. It's not that bad.

3) The DQ for missing a pro-am has been around for awhile, but they used to give each player one miss with no penalty. I'm guessing they took that one free miss away? That's too bad because the penalty doesn't fit the crime. It's ridiculous really. After this Furyk fiasco, I bet they make a change this offseason.

I believe the players understand the importance of these pro-ams, as the ams are putting up 5K each or so to play, but they're also pretty rough to play in them. They usually take 5+ hours and it's hard to get much productive practice out of them. That being said, playing with a few ams for the opportunity to play for millions isn't so bad. I'd certainly do it if I could.

[RFS62]

The pro ams used to be a much more important deal to the pros, even though they have always grumbled. Before the big money purses they see today came along, a pro could make connections with local fat cats and pick up some extra cash and maybe a business opportunity.

The big stars have never liked it much.

[GAC]

I am a golf hazard! :D

[Hoosier Red]

These pro-ams are essential to the Tour, but they are a huge problem as well. I don't know exactly how everything works on Tour, but let me clarify a few things about these pro-ams.

1) Players don't choose to play in them, they're assigned. Pretty much, the top ranked players each week have to play in the pro-ams. 18 guys in the morning and 18 in the afternoon. I'm not sure if they get any outs, like one freeby a year or something of the sort.

2) When a player no-shows or is a late, another PGA Tour player plays with the group. Typically, there will be 4 players on-site assigned to be there from approximately 6:30-8:30 AM. Then another group of 4 will be there from 11:30-1:30. The players will practice during this time, but are on-call if there's a problem. I'd venture to guess each player on Tour has to be "on-call" 2-4 times per year. It's not that bad.

3) The DQ for missing a pro-am has been around for awhile, but they used to give each player one miss with no penalty. I'm guessing they took that one free miss away? That's too bad because the penalty doesn't fit the crime. It's ridiculous really. After this Furyk fiasco, I bet they make a change this offseason.

I believe the players understand the importance of these pro-ams, as the ams are putting up 5K each or so to play, but they're also pretty rough to play in them. They usually take 5+ hours and it's hard to get much productive practice out of them. That being said, playing with a few ams for the opportunity to play for millions isn't so bad. I'd certainly do it if I could.

That's a lot of good information Redhook. Thanks. So essentially if you're a top 30 player, you're always assigned to play in a pro-am. I'd think that would make for a longer week and some competitive disadvantage versus not having to play in it.

And if you're not one of the top 36 players, the "on-call" guys are just randomly picked? Sorry I know this is a bit of minutiea for everyone else but it's just something I'm interested in.

[guttle11]

DQing a player because he missed a pro-am is just ridiculous though. Now I could understand if the player routinely skips the pro-am, but Furyk was a little late and now is out of the tourney, when over half the field wasn't even subject to the same rule.

Just fine the guy from the check he gets from his next money finish and be done with it. Escalate the fines and only after the absences become egregious (3 or 4) do you remove him from an event. The sponsors care more about the event than the pro-am anyway.

[Redhook]

That's a lot of good information Redhook. Thanks. So essentially if you're a top 30 player, you're always assigned to play in a pro-am. I'd think that would make for a longer week and some competitive disadvantage versus not having to play in it.

And if you're not one of the top 36 players, the "on-call" guys are just randomly picked? Sorry I know this is a bit of minutiea for everyone else but it's just something I'm interested in.

Yes, the Top 30 players, play in the majority, if not all, the pro-ams. Their schedule is very different from the "other" Tour players. Usually, they'll take Monday off, or just get a little practice in. They'll play 9 holes Tuesday if they've seen the course, 18 if they haven't. Then they play 18 on Wed.

Playing the pro-ams has advantages and disadvantages. Most of the other players can't play the day before the tournament unless they get up at 5:00 for a quick 9 at 6:15 or so. The disadvantage is they're tiring, but not enough to ruin a week. You get used to them.

When I caddied on the LPGA, they rotated the on-call players. It's not random, but required every so often. I caddied about 30 events and was on-call maybe 3 times. Not much. I think that's pretty typical. It would kind of suck if you were expecting Tiger or Phil and you got some guy 120th on the money instead.

I still think the rule that DQ'd Furyk is bunk. It too harsh and only applies to a small percentage of the field. I'm sure it'll be changed this offseason.

[Kingspoint]

Golf's rules are simple compared to baseball's rules.

[bucksfan2]

Golf's rules are simple compared to baseball's rules.

Huh? Have you ever played golf? Golf has more rules that no one knows about until they are called on national TV.

[Boston Red]

Huh? Have you ever played golf? Golf has more rules that no one knows about until they are called on national TV.

Baseball has a lot of that too. The balk rules, for example. Interference (in the basepaths, from the batter, from the catcher and from the fans). A player catching the ball with his hat. A ball hitting the umpire. A ball hitting a baserunner. Double switches and other substitution rules (a batter being in the game once announced, the starting pitcher on the lineup card being required to actually pitch to a batter before being replaced, etc.). Differences between the infield and outfield in determining whether a ball is fair or foul. "Unwritten rules" enforced not by the umpires but by a fastball to the ribs.

So, yes, baseball's got a lot of rules that those only somewhat familiar with the game are very puzzled by.

[Kingspoint]

Huh? Have you ever played golf? Golf has more rules that no one knows about until they are called on national TV.

There may be 15-20 golf rules that you don't know.

There are at least 100 baseball rules that you don't know.

[Kingspoint]

What's funny about all of the weird and different baseball rules is that it's part of what is so cool about baseball.

Golf has too many "duffers", uninformed players who think that buying a golf set from Costco and a pair of golf shoes is enough for understanding how to play the game. It would never occur to half of all golfers that they should see a "professional" and get lessons (every season or two), instead of just going out there and hacking away. That would be akin to being part of a baseball team without a coach, a manager, or ever having had a practice.

But those of us who have played baseball have all played on a "team" at least for one season, if not for 5-10 seasons. How many golfers have been on a "golf team" for even one season, yet alone four or more seasons? 1 out of 1000 would be my guess.

Golf just seems like they have a bunch of odd rules because the majority of people who watch it and play it have never taken it seriously. How many people have actually bothered to ever read the rules? 1 in a 100 at the most. It's more like 4 out of 1000.

[oneupper]

This kid seems to respect the rules.

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/What-would-you-do-teen-golfer-disqualifies-self?urn=golf-267228