2010 NFL Season Discussion

[kaldaniels]

Al Michaels just referenced the "accident where a man was killed" in reference to Donte Stallworth. Sometimes the NFL's propaganda reallly irks me.

[JaxRed]

OK, it's half time. The Jags roller coaster ride continues. The week after the Colts big victory, the Jags went to Buffalo, and after falling behind 10-0 with a turnover, the Jags came back, controlled the game and had a nice clear victory.

The Jags ride that emotion into a home Monday Night sellout against the Titans. And the Jags lay an egg. An ugly egg. Garrard gets knocked out with a concussion, Trent Edwards comes in an plays fairly well, but not enough to make a real impact.

And Edwards hit his hand on a helmet late in the game meaning that even though they were way down, they had to keep running the ball giving the impression that they weren't even trying to win. The crowd was angry, and there was a lot of talk that the sellout streak would end next home game.

However, the next 2 games would be on the road. The next was at KC. Garrard was ruled out, and Edwards was iffy with the hand injury. So as backup, Jags signed Todd Bouman who hadn't played a game in 5 years. As it turns out, Edwards was not ready, and Bouman became the starter. The Jags laid the egg everyone expected, losing their 4th game of the year by more than 20 points.

So, at it's low point one again, the Jags go into Dallas, and not only pull off the upset, they win easily. The Jags head into the bye week, on a high note, and at 4-4.

2 weeks until the next game. Will the high of the Cowboys win extend the sellouts?

The season has exposed lots of weaknesses. The Jags need a QB, defensive backfield help, and more OL. The schedule is tough from here on out. The are probably still looking at a 6 or 7 win season.

It's now the 3/4 point, and the Jekyll/Hyde Jags evolved into the good Dr. Jekyll for the last 4 games. Following the high of the Dallas upset, the Jags had a bye week, which they needed to sell out the next game against the Texans. Which they did.

It was a back and forth game, and it was headed to overtime, when Garrard launched a 50 yard Hail Mary as time expired......... that got answered !! The db punched the ball to the ground and it went right into a Jags wide receiver's hands. The Jags had their 2nd last second miracle win of the season !! The Jags were 5-4.

The next week we played the Browns at home. The game was sold out again. (Six games no blackouts). Bad David Garrard showed up again, but despite 6 turnovers, the Jags had a nice solid win. They were now tied with the Colts for the Division lead. The Jags were 6-4.

The next game would be a tough one. On the road against the Giants. The Jags lost, but they probably outplayed the Giants. But for the first time this season, when they lost, it wasn't by 20 or more points. It did not destroy the goodwill they had built up. 6-5.

The next game was on the road at Tennessee. The Titans are the Jags most hated opponent, and they beat us on Monday Night in Jax by 27 points, in what was one of the many low points of the season.

But the new Jags dominated the Titans in a way the 17-6 score did not reflect. In addition the Colts lost their 3rd straight game and 4th out of last 5. The Jags are now in sole possession of first place, and control most of the tie breakers. Jags are 7-5.

They've had to overcome some adversity. They lost Aaron Kampman, their big free agent pickup for the season.

If they win 2 games of the next 4, they should win the Division. All in all it's a Jags love fest in Jax. The folks love Del Rio, they love Garrard, they love the GM Gene Smith. 2 more games and if we sell out those, we'll have gone from 7 blackouts to 0.

[MikeThierry]

How bout them.............. Rams?

[BuckeyeRed27]

Broncos just fired Josh McDaniels.

[WMR]

:lol:

[kaldaniels]

YouTube - Josh McDaniels: Fist-Pumping Moron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vIOBUFRVkg)

One last time. Thanks for the memories Josh. The look on Belicheks face is priceless.

[MWM]

I thought he still a few years on his contract. And I think they're still paying Mike Shannahan. They may be paying 3 head coaches next year. LOL!

[edabbs44]

The Sanchize....going the way of Mangenius?

[WVRed]

I thought he still a few years on his contract. And I think they're still paying Mike Shannahan. They may be paying 3 head coaches next year. LOL!

You have to think Mike Shanahan in laughing somewhere in his DC home right now.

Wanna know the worst part? I think McDaniels is somebody who could very easily end up in Cincinnati.

[Oxilon]

You have to think Mike Shanahan in laughing somewhere in his DC home right now.

Wanna know the worst part? I think McDaniels is somebody who could very easily end up in Cincinnati.

I would gladly take McDaniels as our coach. The guy definitely made some mistakes his first time around, but he's going to be an outstanding coach when it's all said and done. I just don't think McDaniels would take the gig here, seeing how you basically have to be Mikey's puppet.

[Redsfaithful]

I don't see a lot of difference between Josh McDaniels and a Dave Shula or Bruce Coslet. Just think, this is the coach that jettisoned Peyton Hillis, Jay Cutler, and Brandon Marshall all in what, a year?

[WVRed]

I would gladly take McDaniels as our coach. The guy definitely made some mistakes his first time around, but he's going to be an outstanding coach when it's all said and done. I just don't think McDaniels would take the gig here, seeing how you basically have to be Mikey's puppet.

If he could come in and clean up the roster the same way he did Denver, I would be all for it.

The Mikey's puppet argument may work for a more seasoned coach such as Bill Cowher, but in McDaniels case he may take whatever job he can. Most teams probably won't look too favorably on Spygate Round Two so his desirability may have taken a hit.

[MWM]

I don't see a lot of difference between Josh McDaniels and a Dave Shula or Bruce Coslet. Just think, this is the coach that jettisoned Peyton Hillis, Jay Cutler, and Brandon Marshall all in what, a year?

Worse than all of that was using a first round draft pick on Tim Tebow.

However, I don't think getting rid of Cutler was a bad move. I don't think he's ever going to be a consistently good QB and they got someone I think works just as well (maybe even better in certain schemes) along with a draft pick. I like that move. The others were terrible.

[Todd Gack]

I don't see a lot of difference between Josh McDaniels and a Dave Shula or Bruce Coslet. Just think, this is the coach that jettisoned Peyton Hillis, Jay Cutler, and Brandon Marshall all in what, a year?

Peyton Hillis was certainly a mistake, but Cutler is/was overrated and Marshall is a cancer.

THe problem was replacing Cutler with Tebow. That'll end up being his biggest mistake once everyone sees that Tebow can't drop back and read coverages.

[WVRed]

I don't see a lot of difference between Josh McDaniels and a Dave Shula or Bruce Coslet. Just think, this is the coach that jettisoned Peyton Hillis, Jay Cutler, and Brandon Marshall all in what, a year?

Hillis was a fullback under the Broncos and I dont think anybody expected him to do what he is doing in Cleveland.

Cutler and Marshall weren't bad moves though. They both had issues but I think what they replaced them with was even worse. Demaryius Thomas over Dez Bryant was probably the worst pick. And of course reaching big time for Tebow.

The draft before that, Robert Ayers and Knoshown Moreno haven't exactly been spectacular.

[Sea Ray]

Hillis was a fullback under the Broncos and I dont think anybody expected him to do what he is doing in Cleveland.

Cutler and Marshall weren't bad moves though. They both had issues but I think what they replaced them with was even worse. Demaryius Thomas over Dez Bryant was probably the worst pick. And of course reaching big time for Tebow.

The draft before that, Robert Ayers and Knoshown Moreno haven't exactly been spectacular.

Ayers, Moreno, Tebow? Sounds like their scouting dept needs to to do more than watch SEC football

[MWM]

Hillis was a fullback under the Broncos and I dont think anybody expected him to do what he is doing in Cleveland.

See, THAT is a major problem. He was in their organization for two years, and they didn't see it. That's a major indictment on their ability to evaluate talent that they already own.

[IslandRed]

You have to think Mike Shanahan in laughing somewhere in his DC home right now.

Not to mention Jay Cutler.


I would gladly take McDaniels as our coach. The guy definitely made some mistakes his first time around, but he's going to be an outstanding coach when it's all said and done.

Before he can be a good head coach, he'll have to get over that belief that he's the smartest person alive and no one can tell him anything about anything, a fairly common ailment among hotshots given too much control too soon.

OK, maybe that's too harsh. But if that's not what he believed, his actions appeared indistinguishable from someone who did believe it.

[WMR]

He was like Belichick except without the credibility.

[redsfanmia]

He was like Belichick except without the credibility.

Does Belichick have a history of feuding with players? If so I don't remember.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Does Belichick have a history of feuding with players? If so I don't remember.

Ask Randy Moss.

[redsfanmia]

Ask Randy Moss.

Did he publicly feud with him?

[blumj]

Players can't really feud with him, he has total control, the Krafts always back him, Brady always backs him, other team leaders always back him, the media doesn't matter, anyone who isn't with the program just goes away.

[Boss-Hog]

At the very least, Moss has recently gone out of his way to excessively praise him (see his bizarre final press conference with the Vikings before they cut him).


Ask Randy Moss.

[Puffy]

The Broncos really screwed up the whole Josh McDaniels thing. They let a coach, less than 40 years old, have complete power over personnel. The guy was an offensive coordinator, no previous head coaching experience, and they gave him absolute power. They should have hired a player personnel guy to work hand in hand or even above McDaniels to smooth transition.

McDaniels was doomed to fail even before he started. That said, he probably gets another shot to become head coach somewhere down line, but will have to go back to coordinating somewhere first.

[Hoosier Red]

The Broncos really screwed up the whole Josh McDaniels thing. They let a coach, less than 40 years old, have complete power over personnel. The guy was an offensive coordinator, no previous head coaching experience, and they gave him absolute power. They should have hired a player personnel guy to work hand in hand or even above McDaniels to smooth transition.

McDaniels was doomed to fail even before he started. That said, he probably gets another shot to become head coach somewhere down line, but will have to go back to coordinating somewhere first.

The more I think about it, this is where not having a GM really hurts the Bengals. Because Mike Brown has the coaches double as scouts, there's no GM to put the brakes on when a receivers coach looks at Jerome Simpson and says, "yeah I can work with that" or when an offensive line coach looks at Andre Smith and says, "yeah but with a little tough love, he'll be fine. I can reach him, trust me." Essentially every coach becomes too emotionally invested in the process to make good objective evaluations. If I'm a WR coach and I look at Jerome Simpson's freakish physical abilities, I have to be able to get him ready if I'm worth my salt as a coach right?

Add to it Mikey's predilication for redeeming people, with no buffer to slow down and make an objective evaluation and it's a disaster.

The same thing happened in Denver. Josh McDaniels made the emotional decision that he could get Tebow to be worthy of a number one pick. He made an emotional decision that Brandon Marshall angered him and had to go, no matter what they got for him.

[Sea Ray]

He was like Belichick except without the credibility.

Belichick is low key, something I'd never use to describe McDaniels

[blumj]

Belichick is low key, something I'd never use to describe McDaniels
Some not-so-nice Pats fans call McDaniels "Skippy", he seemed pretty green to even be the OC just a couple of years ago. You can understand why Belichick didn't want to name coordinators, other teams go making them HCs before he can even finish training them.

[WVRed]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5904082


Harrison believes Baltimore Ravens guard Chris Chester deliberately went after him while being called for a false-start penalty during an extra-point attempt Sunday. Chester came off the line of scrimmage and drove at Harrison, an unusual blocking technique because offensive linemen generally try to remain packed to avoid potential blocked kicks.

Harrison, a three-time Pro Bowl linebacker, said it was the perfect time to target him because such an infraction draws only a 5-yard penalty. He also believes Chester may have been trying to hurt him.

"It was uncalled for and cheap," Harrison said Thursday.

This comes from the same guy who has been fined four times and actually admitted to trying to hurt other players?

[kaldaniels]

And the Titans cover the spread. What a kick in the crotch if you bet on Indy.

[Caveat Emperor]

And the Titans cover the spread. What a kick in the crotch if you bet on Indy.

The way Manning has been freely distributing the football this year, I wouldn't touch an Indy line with a 10' pole.

[Razor Shines]

The way Manning has been freely distributing the football this year, I wouldn't touch an Indy line with a 10' pole.

Well he did his part last night putting up 30, but the defense allowing the Titans 28 pts is damn near a fire-able offense.

[WVRed]

I think God really wants Brett Favre to continue with his Iron Man streak:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5911532


The change gave Brett Favre another 31 hours for his injured shoulder to recuperate. The Vikings quarterback, who didn't throw during Saturday's walk-through, has started an NFL-record 297 consecutive games.

And now is probably going to be delayed even further.

[Slyder]

:owned::oops::barf:
And the Titans cover the spread. What a kick in the crotch if you bet on Indy.

<<<This guy and it was the ONLY miss on a 4 bet parry :bang::cry::doh::oops::barf:

[Roy Tucker]

Yikes.

YouTube - Metrodome Roof Collapse Video From the Inside Metrodome (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAyLX2hY7E0)

[Eric_the_Red]

So what should the punishment be for the Jets strength & conditioning coach for tripping the DDolphin player from the sidelines? I'd be fine with anything from a suspension for the rest of the 2010 season and post-season to outright firing. Zero place for that type of stuff on the field, especially from an authority figure within the organization.

[Chip R]

So what should the punishment be for the Jets strength & conditioning coach for tripping the DDolphin player from the sidelines? I'd be fine with anything from a suspension for the rest of the 2010 season and post-season to outright firing. Zero place for that type of stuff on the field, especially from an authority figure within the organization.


Sack him. No excuse for something like that.

[Eric_the_Red]

And what does it tell you about the Jets org that they are waiting for the NFL to hand down punishment?

[JaxRed]

Suspension for rest if season. If Jets decide to lose him.... no problem

[RichRed]

So what should the punishment be for the Jets strength & conditioning coach for tripping the DDolphin player from the sidelines? I'd be fine with anything from a suspension for the rest of the 2010 season and post-season to outright firing. Zero place for that type of stuff on the field, especially from an authority figure within the organization.

From the "You can't make this stuff up" department, that coach won a sportsmanship award while a football player at Hofstra.

http://www.massapequapost.com/news/2000-11-29/Front_Page/12.html

[JaxRed]

Thought I would break from my normal quarterly report on the Jags and update prior to the Colts-Jags game this week, which appears to be for the AFC South Championship.

This week the Jags were resilient in overcoming a tough Raiders squad, and came back to win 38-31 in another thriller. The Jags once again were not blacked out.

Turns out that if Jags win 2 of next 3 and Colts win all 3, tie breaker goes to Colts based on 3rd level (common opponents).

If Texans lose tonight and Jags beat Colts Sunday, Jags clinch division.

The Jags are a little like the pursuing posse in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. You look behind and they are still there. "Who are those guys?"

Since they've gone to 8-5, they are starting to draw some attention. The key to this resurgence over the last couple years has been the GM Gene Smith. He finally starts getting some pub.....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/12/13/week-14-mmqb/1.html

Jags are probably over-achieving this year, but Smith definitely has them on the rise.

[Sea Ray]

Sack him. No excuse for something like that.

It looked to me like the player was well out of bounds when this happened. What is the coach's responsibility in this instance? Can you hold your ground and if the guy runs into you it's his tough rocks?

Of course this doesn't excuse a coach purposely trying to trip a guy but does the fact that it occured well out of bounds help the coach's case?

[westofyou]

Guys in the NHL get suspended for extending their knee to impede an opponent.

This guy deserves a suspension.

[Boss-Hog]

It looked to me like the player was well out of bounds when this happened. What is the coach's responsibility in this instance? Can you hold your ground and if the guy runs into you it's his tough rocks?

Of course this doesn't excuse a coach purposely trying to trip a guy but does the fact that it occured well out of bounds help the coach's case?
No, not in my book. He should be suspended at a minimum through the end of this season and I wouldn't shed any tears if he was fired. There's no place for that in any sport.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Favre has been listed as inactive for tonight's game and his streak will end at 297. That is unless Ford Field is swallowed by the Earth in the next hour or so.

[JaxRed]

ProFootballTalk (Mike Florio) is presenting a mild case that this was set up by the Jets. You had 5 Jets sideline guys, standing shoulder to shoulder exactly on the edge of the white line, and the video suggests guy #2 is starting to lean in with his shoulder.

[Eric_the_Red]

ProFootballTalk (Mike Florio) is presenting a mild case that this was set up by the Jets. You had 5 Jets sideline guys, standing shoulder to shoulder exactly on the edge of the white line, and the video suggests guy #2 is starting to lean in with his shoulder.

And Florio continues to demonstrate why he is the luckiest man alive to hold the position that he has while dispensing such ignorance.

[redsfanmia]

No, not in my book. He should be suspended at a minimum through the end of this season and I wouldn't shed any tears if he was fired. There's no place for that in any sport.

He should be banned from the sideline as long as he works in the NFL.

[JaxRed]

Ok I just watched the film, more closely then the Zapruder film. I think Florio is right on this one.

[westofyou]

Tommy Lewis play 1954

YouTube - 1954 Cotton Bowl: Dicky Maegle - Tommy Lewis Tackle Play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSteCSinjTs)

[kaldaniels]

Totally bush league for the coach to trip that guy up.

But man he sure was out of bounds quite a bit. Setting up a wall seems like good strategy to me, so long as the coaches are in areas that they are allowed to be. Tripping a guy...thats ridiculous though.

[JaxRed]

ESPN says NFL is looking into the situation to see if it was orchestrated.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/33582/jets-deliver-strong-statement-on-sal-alosi

[Chip R]

No, not in my book. He should be suspended at a minimum through the end of this season and I wouldn't shed any tears if he was fired. There's no place for that in any sport.

That is what has happened. He's suspended through the end of the season without pay and that includes playoffs. The guy is barred from the practice facility. I thought he should be fired but I'm OK with this.

[KronoRed]

Of course it was orchestrated, look at the Jets guys lined up in a line.

Ban the coach for life and fine the jets a few million dollars.

[KoryMac5]

According to fans at the game and a few players on the Jets what had happened was the Miami player continually was running out of bounds by the Jets sideline on punts and kicks. The Jets complained several times and a penalty was thrown. The Jets coaching staff decided ( not sure if Ryan ordered this or not) to form a wall to keep this player from doing this every kick or punt. Looks like one of the coaches got carried away. Really shocked it took the Jets until 230 pm to respond to this situation, after all Rex runs his mouth 24/7.

[Roy Tucker]

I thought it was kinda funny. Kinda like Reggie Jackson leaning into the DP throw in the '78 WS.

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.

[cincrazy]

Thought I would break from my normal quarterly report on the Jags and update prior to the Colts-Jags game this week, which appears to be for the AFC South Championship.

This week the Jags were resilient in overcoming a tough Raiders squad, and came back to win 38-31 in another thriller. The Jags once again were not blacked out.

Turns out that if Jags win 2 of next 3 and Colts win all 3, tie breaker goes to Colts based on 3rd level (common opponents).

If Texans lose tonight and Jags beat Colts Sunday, Jags clinch division.

The Jags are a little like the pursuing posse in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. You look behind and they are still there. "Who are those guys?"

Since they've gone to 8-5, they are starting to draw some attention. The key to this resurgence over the last couple years has been the GM Gene Smith. He finally starts getting some pub.....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/12/13/week-14-mmqb/1.html

Jags are probably over-achieving this year, but Smith definitely has them on the rise.

Good to see Smith having some success in Jacksonville. The national media really ripped him good for some of his draft choices the last few years, most notable picking Tyson Alualu tenth overall. Always nice to see a man get a little vindication for some unncessary over-the-top ripping.

[Todd Gack]

Good to see Smith having some success in Jacksonville. The national media really ripped him good for some of his draft choices the last few years, most notable picking Tyson Alualu tenth overall. Always nice to see a man get a little vindication for some unncessary over-the-top ripping.

The Jags are last in the NFL in Turnover margin. Those kind of teams end up losing early in the playoffs. They're exactly the type of team who has gone on a nice little winning streak because of some very fortunate bounces. Cleveland should've beat them. Oakland was up 2 TD's on them before Jacksonville played well for a 5 minutes stretch. Houston was, well, a very fortunate bounce.

Jacksonville will enter the playoffs this year and lose in their first game no matter who they play, they'll give Del Rio an extension, and then they'll be a crappy team next year when they play a first place schedule and David Garrard finally starts playing like, well, David Garrard.

[redsfanmia]

The Jags are last in the NFL in Turnover margin. Those kind of teams end up losing early in the playoffs. They're exactly the type of team who has gone on a nice little winning streak because of some very fortunate bounces. Cleveland should've beat them. Oakland was up 2 TD's on them before Jacksonville played well for a 5 minutes stretch. Houston was, well, a very fortunate bounce.

Jacksonville will enter the playoffs this year and lose in their first game no matter who they play, they'll give Del Rio an extension, and then they'll be a crappy team next year when they play a first place schedule and David Garrard finally starts playing like, well, David Garrard.

You forgot that they beat the Colts on a 59 yard field goal.

[Todd Gack]

You forgot that they beat the Colts on a 59 yard field goal.

How could I forget?

Other teams that fall into this category:

New Orleans. They're going to lose early because they're just not the same as last year. Something's 'off' about them. No running game and defense isn't as consistent.

NYJ: They haven't been playing 9-5 good all year. They were fortunate to beat Cleveland, Detroit, and Houston. You've received a sneak peek these last 2 weeks.

Chicago: You got a little sneak peek this last Sunday. Cutler simply isn't stable enough to lead them deep in the playoffs.

[Razor Shines]

Of course it was orchestrated, look at the Jets guys lined up in a line.

Ban the coach for life and fine the jets a few million dollars.

Eric Winston, Houston O lineman, was on the radio today and he said that after watching it he believes that it was orchestrated.

I think most of us think that, but for a current NFL player to say it is pretty significant.

[cincrazy]

The Jags are last in the NFL in Turnover margin. Those kind of teams end up losing early in the playoffs. They're exactly the type of team who has gone on a nice little winning streak because of some very fortunate bounces. Cleveland should've beat them. Oakland was up 2 TD's on them before Jacksonville played well for a 5 minutes stretch. Houston was, well, a very fortunate bounce.

Jacksonville will enter the playoffs this year and lose in their first game no matter who they play, they'll give Del Rio an extension, and then they'll be a crappy team next year when they play a first place schedule and David Garrard finally starts playing like, well, David Garrard.

They are what their record says they are my friend. They have a solid QB, a great running attack, and a defense that's performing, especially on the line. I'm not talking about next year or their schedule. You have to win the games put in front of you, and the Jags are doing that. They started off the season shaky, but have played much, much better as of late.

And I wouldn't sell the Saints short, especially in the NFC.

[Eric_the_Red]

They are what their record says they are my friend. They have a solid QB, a great running attack, and a defense that's performing, especially on the line. I'm not talking about next year or their schedule. You have to win the games put in front of you, and the Jags are doing that. They started off the season shaky, but have played much, much better as of late.

And I wouldn't sell the Saints short, especially in the NFC.

Disagree on the Jags. They are this years Bengals. Look for a major regression next year, as a tougher schedule and fewer favorable (luck?) plays go their way.

[JaxRed]

It's extremely possible Jags could lose in first round. We are a team still on the upswing. But you miss the point if you think Jags revert to being a sub-500 team next year. A fundamental change has happened.

They canned a GM that blew all but 1 of his first round draft choices, signed FA bust after FA bust, and had enough bad character guys that people were calling us the Bengals south.

Gene Smith took over after Jags went 5-11. In two years he's taken us to 7-9 and then 8-5. He's cleaned house of all the bad character guys, drafted to stock upon the offensive and defensive lines rather than glamour positions.

When we played bad at the beginning of the season we got blown out by 20 points 4 times. But they turned the corner, and now even when we lose (Giants) it's just barely.

We may not even make the playoffs. But this team is coming, folks.

[Oxilon]

This Jets' coach on the sideline thing made me hate the Jets even more. But it also got my thinking about a random hypothetical situation.

For instance, say it's a tie game in the Superbowl. On one of the last plays of the game, a player with the ball breaks free and is going to take it to the house for an easy 6 points. But what would happen if a player/coach from the opposing sideline ran onto the field and prevented the player from scoring? I don't believe I've ever heard of any NFL rule where the team can get an automatic touchdown without actually putting the ball in the endzone. Would the penalty spot the ball at the one yard line (like defensive PI in the endzone) and give the would-be losing team an extra opportunity from stopping a touchdown?

[IslandRed]

It's happened in college before. The NFL has the same rule. If someone comes off the bench to tackle a ballcarrier, a touchdown may be awarded, although it sounds like the referee has some discretion depending on whether the runner actually had a chance to score. Link (scroll to the bottom):

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/penaltysummaries

[kaldaniels]

This Jets' coach on the sideline thing made me hate the Jets even more. But it also got my thinking about a random hypothetical situation.

For instance, say it's a tie game in the Superbowl. On one of the last plays of the game, a player with the ball breaks free and is going to take it to the house for an easy 6 points. But what would happen if a player/coach from the opposing sideline ran onto the field and prevented the player from scoring? I don't believe I've ever heard of any NFL rule where the team can get an automatic touchdown without actually putting the ball in the endzone. Would the penalty spot the ball at the one yard line (like defensive PI in the endzone) and give the would-be losing team an extra opportunity from stopping a touchdown?

It would be a touchdown. There is a rule in the rulebook allowing officials to award the TD in a situation like that. It also allows a TD to be awarded if the offense has 1 inch to go for a TD but the defense keeps jumping offsides intentionally.

[cincrazy]

Disagree on the Jags. They are this years Bengals. Look for a major regression next year, as a tougher schedule and fewer favorable (luck?) plays go their way.

That's just the nature of the NFL. Maybe the Jags will fall back next year, I'm not sure. But this team has talent, and they're mature. Unlike my Bengals. The fact of the matter is, the Colts have Manning, so they automatically have the edge next year. But in terms of THIS year, I like Jacksonville. They're a solid team, and they shouldn't be underestimated in the playoffs. You mean to tell me you don't think they can beat the Jets or the Raves if they meet in the first round? Because I think they can. They'd get pasted by the Pats, but who wouldn't at this point.

[Puffy]

New Orleans. They're going to lose early because they're just not the same as last year. Something's 'off' about them. No running game and defense isn't as consistent.



As a Giants fan I disagree with this. If, and the playoffs are not guaranteed for my G-Men yet, but if they make playoffs the Saints and Eagles scare me more than any other two teams.

The Falcons are a result of their home stadium and their defense can be had and even with home field advantage I am pretty sure the Giants beat them. The Packers have no running game whatsoever. And the Bucs, please let them make playoffs and let Giants play them. Please.

[Todd Gack]

As a Giants fan I disagree with this. If, and the playoffs are not guaranteed for my G-Men yet, but if they make playoffs the Saints and Eagles scare me more than any other two teams.

The Falcons are a result of their home stadium and their defense can be had and even with home field advantage I am pretty sure the Giants beat them. The Packers have no running game whatsoever. And the Bucs, please let them make playoffs and let Giants play them. Please.

The Eagles defense is all or nothing. They're not particularly that great. I thought the Giants gameplan the 1st time around was good enough to win, but they didn't. I think the Eagles or Giants will end up winning the NFC. In fact, I think the Eagles end up playing in Atlanta for the NFC championship to give the Vick/Atlanta storyline.

The Saints offense just hasn't been the same as last year. There isn't as much consistency. Thomas has been hurt which killed their running game. Ivory did an admirable job, but not to the level that it was last year. And their defense isn't as consistent with some injuries there. Like I said, something's "off" about them this year.

Otherwise, I agree with everything else you've stated.

[Eric_the_Red]

That's just the nature of the NFL. Maybe the Jags will fall back next year, I'm not sure. But this team has talent, and they're mature. Unlike my Bengals. The fact of the matter is, the Colts have Manning, so they automatically have the edge next year. But in terms of THIS year, I like Jacksonville. They're a solid team, and they shouldn't be underestimated in the playoffs. You mean to tell me you don't think they can beat the Jets or the Raves if they meet in the first round? Because I think they can. They'd get pasted by the Pats, but who wouldn't at this point.

The Jets are similar to the Jags, IMO. Playoff pretenders. They may make it, but I don't see them with a real shot at the Super Bowl.

The Ravens are probably a notch better than the Jets and Jaguars, IMO.

Right now in the AFC it is the Pats and everyone else. Actually, you can probably expand that to the NFL.

[Eric_the_Red]

The Eagles defense is all or nothing. They're not particularly that great. I thought the Giants gameplan the 1st time around was good enough to win, but they didn't. I think the Eagles or Giants will end up winning the NFC. In fact, I think the Eagles end up playing in Atlanta for the NFC championship to give the Vick/Atlanta storyline.

The Saints offense just hasn't been the same as last year. There isn't as much consistency. Thomas has been hurt which killed their running game. Ivory did an admirable job, but not to the level that it was last year. And their defense isn't as consistent with some injuries there. Like I said, something's "off" about them this year.

Otherwise, I agree with everything else you've stated.

Thomas and Bush have been hurt most of the year. Now they are back, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the rise. Their defense, however, has not impressed me at any point this year.

[klw]

Of course it was orchestrated, look at the Jets guys lined up in a line.

Ban the coach for life and fine the jets a few million dollars.

Survey says: Orchestrated!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New-York-Jets-Sal-Alosi-suspended-indefinitely-121510

[Todd Gack]

Thomas and Bush have been hurt most of the year. Now they are back, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the rise. Their defense, however, has not impressed me at any point this year.

I know they're coming back, but I'm not sold. Like I said, there's something 'off' about the Saints this year. I don't expect every 'good' season to go exactly the same, but there's just something that doesn't sit right with the Saints and I can't put my finger on it. Unfortunate injuries, inconsistent play, fortunate bounces to help them win,. . . . . .I just don't see them being particularly a threat in the NFC.

[Eric_the_Red]

Lots of injuries which could alter the playoff picture/draft picks (and one nonsensical move by Shanahan).

Aaron Rodgers out Sunday.
Troy Polamalu out Sunday, and maybe the rest of the regular season.
Brett Favre and Tavaris Jackson out.
Donovan McNabb benched for....Rex Grossman??
Tim Tebow taking most of the first team reps this week instead of Kyle Orton.

[UKFlounder]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a 4th quarter as interesting and fun to watch as the Eagles-Giants today. The Eagles made some big plays, but the Giants should have won that one. I think "choke" may be appropriate for it.

As a fan of neither team, I really enjoyed watching it. Wow. Just wow.

[kaldaniels]

Barring Seattle coming back from 14 down vs the best team record-wise in the NFC, chalk up an 0-4 weekend for the stellar NFC West!

[redhawkfish]

What a fun game to watch! Bears and Jets tied 31-31 in 3rd quarter.

[Eric_the_Red]

The playoff schedule has been determined:

NFL WILD CARD WEEKEND

Saturday, January 8
NFC: 4:30 PM (ET) New Orleans at St. Louis/Seattle (NBC-TV)
AFC: 8:00 PM (ET) New York Jets at Indianapolis (NBC-TV)

Sunday, January 9
AFC: 1:00 PM (ET) Baltimore at Kansas City (CBS-TV)
NFC: 4:30 PM (ET) Green Bay at Philadelphia (FOX-TV)

[Sea Ray]

Here's a dilemma for Seattle fans:

If Seattle wins, they'll go to the back of line in the draft this year. All playoff teams draft after all non playoff teams, regardless of record. This will mean the difference between a #11 pick and a #21 pick every rd.

So, with that in mind, would you as a Seattle Seahawk fan want to see a win tonight or not? I just talked to one Seahawk season ticket holder and he's not even going tonight. He definitely wants no part of a win. He wants them to load up on draft picks and hope owner Paul Allen buys some key FAs and make a run next year.

What do you think?

[Caveat Emperor]

Josh Freeman, despite starting the year with a broken thumb, finished the year with 25 TDs v. 6 INTs and a QB Rating of 95.9 -- good for #6 overall in the NFL.

Tampa didn't make the post-season, but I'm excited for the 2011 season already. Get the labor situation done so that this young team doesn't lose time on the development cycle.

[kaldaniels]

Not a well played game, but I'm enjoying the playoff atmosphere of the NFC West championship.

[Sea Ray]

Hilarious that a 7-9 team made the playoffs. Seattle better hope for bad weather and enjoy their crown 'cause it'll cost 'em in the draft and in the schedule next year. That game sure looked like a 6-9 team going against a 7-8 team. 95% of all the plays were w/i a ten yd box.

[Kingspoint]

The Raiders sweep their Division and miss the playoffs.

[Caveat Emperor]

Hilarious that a 7-9 team made the playoffs. Seattle better hope for bad weather and enjoy their crown 'cause it'll cost 'em in the draft and in the schedule next year. That game sure looked like a 6-9 team going against a 7-8 team. 95% of all the plays were w/i a ten yd box.

Apparently nobody told Pete Carrol that just being bowl eligible is not a good goal for the NFL.

[Mutaman]

As a Giants fan I disagree with this. If, and the playoffs are not guaranteed for my G-Men yet, but if they make playoffs the Saints and Eagles scare me more than any other two teams.

The Falcons are a result of their home stadium and their defense can be had and even with home field advantage I am pretty sure the Giants beat them. The Packers have no running game whatsoever. And the Bucs, please let them make playoffs and let Giants play them. Please.

Hope the Giants shoot nothing but pars and birdies and enjoy their nice long vacation.

[JaxRed]

The Raiders sweep their Division and miss the playoffs.

And supposedly, Cable getting fired.

[Slyder]

And supposedly, Cable getting fired.

Rumor mongering by people who are throwing stuff at the walls and hoping Al lives up to his reputation. No one knows whats going through Al's head and if they claim to are lying.

[Sea Ray]

It cost them a 1st rd pick. What's a drop from 8 to 21 worth? A 2nd rd pick? Next yrs 1st rounder?


The Seahawks' victory did come at a cost: at least 13 draft spaces.

The Seahawks would have held the eighth choice in this spring's draft if they had lost, finishing at 6-10. They would have been one of eight teams with that record, but of those eight teams, only San Francisco would have had a weaker schedule than Seattle, therfore the 49ers would have held the seventh pick and Seattle would have chosen eighth.

Now, Seattle will hold -- at best -- the No. 21 overall pick in the first round. If the Seahawks beat New Orleans next week, they'll pick No. 25 at the best.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawksblog/

[Caveat Emperor]

No question about it, I'd rather be in the playoffs with the 21st pick than outside and waiting for the draft to start for my 8th pick.

[Sea Ray]

No question about it, I'd rather be in the playoffs with the 21st pick than outside and waiting for the draft to start for my 8th pick.

It's a fascinating dilemma. According to an online poll most Seahawk fans felt otherwise. I don't know how I'd vote

[BRM]

It's a fascinating dilemma. According to an online poll most Seahawk fans felt otherwise. I don't know how I'd vote

They probably think their team will get beat in the opening round, badly. Still, I think I agree with CE that it's better to be in than out.

[Redsfan320]

Hannah Storm and Adam Schefter break out in celebration after discover Manging was fired. (http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/sportscenter-anchors-celebrate-coach-getting-fired/). LOL, have a good laugh at that one. That kinda crap can't happen on national TV. At least we do know now that those post-9 AM SportsCenters really are live. :lol:

320

[Sea Ray]

I had no idea ESPN was so embedded with Browns fans

[Razor Shines]

Tom Cable officially out as Raiders HC.

[Slyder]

Tom Cable officially out as Raiders HC.

I didnt get to watch as much football this year but 6-0 vs the AFC West seems like a good starting point. Any Raider fans get to watch the games? I missed most of them due to work schedule.

[Razor Shines]

Not a raiders fan, but I caught a lot of their games on NFL redzone. Their d looked amazing at times and then other times it looked like a high school team could score on them. Perhaps the talent is there but there was a lack of discipline?

[Slyder]

Not a raiders fan, but I caught a lot of their games on NFL redzone. Their d looked amazing at times and then other times it looked like a high school team could score on them. Perhaps the talent is there but there was a lack of discipline?

I know they were the most penalized team... again but I dont know about whether it was just stupid mistakes or what. Just from the sense of seeing games scores we were a bit of a Jeckyll and Hyde team... Maybe the old man thinks Cable was the guy to right the ship but not a guy to get the team over that next hump. Or maybe he's just senile, I'll wait and see who he hires.

At least 1 thing is certain no matter what happens though, Oakland will not have the worst coach in the division that "honor" remains in SD where for some reason they decided to keep that stiff as a board Norvell as coach.

Remember when AJ was looked upon as a great GM? HAHA.

[RBA]

I bet Al Davis goes for some real old guy this time around.

[Slyder]

I bet Al Davis goes for some real old guy this time around.

We've been waiting for him to skip the puppets and come down out of the coaches box and coach the team himself for the last 8 years. And I only half kid.

[Redsfaithful]

I thought Cable should have been fired when he punched his assistant coach. If Davis hires Hue Jackson I think that team will be very good, very soon.

[RBA]

I thought Cable should have been fired when he punched his assistant coach. If Davis hires Hue Jackson I think that team will be very good, very soon.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/01/04/SPFN1H449F.DTL&tsp=1

[Slyder]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Vince-Young-is-out-in-Tennessee?urn=nfl-303993

Fisher wins the battle. I am honestly shocked I thought Bud Adams being Vince's biggest cheerleader would bring in someone else and give Young another chance with a new coach. Add another team that could be vying for the services of the top QBs in this draft class.

[VottoFan54]

As a Raiders fan I've seen numerous players that thought Cable was an awesome coach and Shane Lechler went on CSN for an interview and basically said we are going to have a tough time re-signing people and no one in free agency is going to want to come to Oakland. He also said the move was totally unreasonable.

[IslandRed]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Vince-Young-is-out-in-Tennessee?urn=nfl-303993

Fisher wins the battle. I am honestly shocked I thought Bud Adams being Vince's biggest cheerleader would bring in someone else and give Young another chance with a new coach. Add another team that could be vying for the services of the top QBs in this draft class.

I'm not 100% sure Fisher survives either, but I'm probably wrong. He has only a year left on his deal and there's really no sense in keeping him around just one more year. The Titans aren't going anywhere near the Super Bowl next year with the current roster and a rookie or retread at quarterback. They need some rebuilding, and Adams needs to either commit to Fisher being around to do it (i.e. contract extension), or move on to the guy who'll be doing it.

[Slyder]

I'm not 100% sure Fisher survives either, but I'm probably wrong. He has only a year left on his deal and there's really no sense in keeping him around just one more year. The Titans aren't going anywhere near the Super Bowl next year with the current roster and a rookie or retread at quarterback. They need some rebuilding, and Adams needs to either commit to Fisher being around to do it (i.e. contract extension), or move on to the guy who'll be doing it.

If he wasnt going to bring back Fisher why get rid of Young first?

[Sea Ray]

I'm not 100% sure Fisher survives either, but I'm probably wrong. He has only a year left on his deal and there's really no sense in keeping him around just one more year. The Titans aren't going anywhere near the Super Bowl next year with the current roster and a rookie or retread at quarterback. They need some rebuilding, and Adams needs to either commit to Fisher being around to do it (i.e. contract extension), or move on to the guy who'll be doing it.

Fisher is due about $6.5mill next year. No way they eat that. He's here for 2011.

The labor situation is driving these coaching decisions significantly. Owners don't want to bring in a new system and try to install it with no minicamps and likely a shortened training camp. Mike Brown referred to this during Tuesday's presser.

Because of this we've seen teams on the fence decide to keep their existing coaches...Cin, Dallas, Minn, Tenn and Jacksonville to name a few

This also tells us one more thing: that the owners foresee a long, protracted lockout

[The Operator]

Rex Ryan's mouth runneth over yet again:

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5995744

With just two days to go before meeting Indianapolis in an AFC wild-card game, Jets coach Rex Ryan was busy praising Colts quarterback Peyton Manning and ended up zinging the Patriots.

[Slyder]

Nothing wrong with him zinging the Pats. I mean judging by the season it sure looks like theyve got the video cameras going again ;).

[IslandRed]

If he wasnt going to bring back Fisher why get rid of Young first?

It was a foregone conclusion that keeping both wasn't going to happen. But it also became a consensus opinion that keeping Young and dumping Fisher would be almost as bad, because the perception would be that VY was bigger than the team or the coach, a stature he's done nothing to earn. That kind of headache isn't helpful when coach-hunting. But the decision to cut Young is defensible independent of what happens with Fisher. Five years is plenty of time for a guy to mature and grow out of the kind of pouting he specialized in, and he was due a fat roster bonus if he stayed.

I think it's probable Fisher stays, because it's one year and for the reasons Sea Ray mentioned. But like I said, I wouldn't be shocked. A hard evaluation of the Titans would lend support to an immediate direction change.

[Chip R]

Since the playoffs are starting on Saturday, there is a new overtime rule where each team must possess (or at least attempt to possess) the ball. Here's a column that humorously breaks down the different scenarios that could happen in a game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/110106&sportCat=nfl

[Sea Ray]

Since the playoffs are starting on Saturday, there is a new overtime rule where each team must possess (or at least attempt to possess) the ball. Here's a column that humorously breaks down the different scenarios that could happen in a game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/110106&sportCat=nfl

That's incorrect, Chip. If the first team scores a TD, the game's over under these new rules

[redsfandan]

Apparently the 49ers have agreed to a 5 year/$25M deal with Harbaugh to be their head coach.

[Razor Shines]

Since the playoffs are starting on Saturday, there is a new overtime rule where each team must possess (or at least attempt to possess) the ball. Here's a column that humorously breaks down the different scenarios that could happen in a game.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/110106&sportCat=nfl

A guy on the Dan Patrick show said he can't wait until a team opens with a drive and kicks a FG and some of their players celebrate because they think they won.

[Sea Ray]

So does the Seahawks win yesterday prove that the system works in the NFL or does it show how unfair it is to make a better team travel to the 7-9 team's huge homefield advantage? One thing's for sure, anything can happen once you make the playoffs and home field can be a huge advantage. Seattle has one of the hugest home field advantages in the league and this is unfortunate for Bengal fans because their team will have to play in Quest Field next year. There's no comparison playing Seattle in Quest Field as opposed to Heinz Field

[Oxblood]

Should need to have a winning record to make the playoffs, don't want this to turn into the NBA/NHL.

[Eric_the_Red]

Should need to have a winning record to make the playoffs, don't want this to turn into the NBA/NHL.

It's happened once in the history of the league. I think we're safe.

[Sea Ray]

I think the system should be "tweaked" in that a team with a .500 record or worse loses the advantage of being a division winner. In other words, they'd likely lose home field advantage. This would rarely need to be enforced since we don't have .500 or worse teams making the playoffs but I think such a sutle change would be beneficial

[Caveat Emperor]

Should need to have a winning record to make the playoffs, don't want this to turn into the NBA/NHL.

The simple answer is to re-seed based on record. Best record and #2 record get a bye, #3 and #4 get home games in the wild-card round, and #5 and #6 go on the road.

[Eric_the_Red]

The simple answer is to re-seed based on record. Best record and #2 record get a bye, #3 and #4 get home games in the wild-card round, and #5 and #6 go on the road.

I don't like it. That would be to the detriment of a team in a tough division where 10-6 may win the division. Then they'd have to go to an 11-5 wild card team that may play in a division with 2 good teams and 2 patsies? Seems unfair to me.

[Caveat Emperor]

I don't like it. That would be to the detriment of a team in a tough division where 10-6 may win the division. Then they'd have to go to an 11-5 wild card team that may play in a division with 2 good teams and 2 patsies? Seems unfair to me.

As opposed to the current system, that's to the detriment of a team in a division with another dominant team (see: Baltimore / Pittsburgh or New York / New England or New Orleans / Atlanta) that is forced to go on the road and play a team that plays in a crap division and happened to win it?

Besides, what you're advocating is quite different than the current system -- which takes nothing about "tough division" into account. It merely hands out a home game to a division winner regardlessof the quality of the division.

[Sea Ray]

The simple answer is to re-seed based on record. Best record and #2 record get a bye, #3 and #4 get home games in the wild-card round, and #5 and #6 go on the road.

No, I think there should be a benefit to winning your division. Thus I think it should be a rare occurance that you lose that

[Eric_the_Red]

As opposed to the current system, that's to the detriment of a team in a division with another dominant team (see: Baltimore / Pittsburgh or New York / New England or New Orleans / Atlanta) that is forced to go on the road and play a team that plays in a crap division and happened to win it?

Besides, what you're advocating is quite different than the current system -- which takes nothing about "tough division" into account. It merely hands out a home game to a division winner regardlessof the quality of the division.

No, I'm actually advocating for the current system. Leave it the way it is. Ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Todd Gack]

How could I forget?

Other teams that fall into this category:

New Orleans. They're going to lose early because they're just not the same as last year. Something's 'off' about them. No running game and defense isn't as consistent.

NYJ: They haven't been playing 9-5 good all year. They were fortunate to beat Cleveland, Detroit, and Houston. You've received a sneak peek these last 2 weeks.

Chicago: You got a little sneak peek this last Sunday. Cutler simply isn't stable enough to lead them deep in the playoffs.


I swore I added Indy to this list because I got banned from their board about a month ago arguing against them. :p:

Oh well, I made some money on the Seahawks ML of +425, and I was going to bet the farm against them in the Divisional round, but they actually match up well against Chicago. I'm think I'm going to still pick Chicago -10, but small. Cutler is such a wild card that he can lose any game no matter how bad the opponent.

I will say this, if Green Bay somehow beats Atlanta and Seattle somehow, some way ends up in the NFCCG, I'll bet on Green bay even with it being at Seattle.

[Caveat Emperor]

No, I think there should be a benefit to winning your division. Thus I think it should be a rare occurance that you lose that

The benefit to winning your division is that you make the playoffs automatically, regardless of what other records are out there.

Congratulations to you if you were the best of what's around in your division, but wins and losses should be what carries the day when it comes to home games and bye week.

[Eric_the_Red]

Division 1
1. Team A 10-6
2. Team B 9-7
3. Team C 8-8
4. Team D 7-9

Divison 2
1. Team E 14-2
2. Team F 11-5
3. Team G 4-12
4. Team H 2-14

So by your estimation Team F is obviously superior to Team A? Sorry, I disagree.

[Slyder]

I agree with the minor tweak. If you win the division you should get the opportunity to play in the playoffs BUT if you finish under 500 you shouldnt get a home game out of the deal. This should be the ONLY tweak to it.

[Caveat Emperor]

Division 1
1. Team A 10-6
2. Team B 9-7
3. Team C 8-8
4. Team D 7-9

Divison 2
1. Team E 14-2
2. Team F 11-5
3. Team G 4-12
4. Team H 2-14

So by your estimation Team F is obviously superior to Team A? Sorry, I disagree.

Team F won more games than Team A. That's the only measure of "superiority" that should matter in a conversation like this. You play the games on your schedule, and the teams that win the most games are rewarded.

The minute you start to look at things outside of Wins and Losses is the minute that the whole system comes collapsing down on itself in a pile of idiocy.

[Eric_the_Red]

Agree to disagree, I suppose. I see nothing wrong with the current system.

[Razor Shines]

Team F won more games than Team A. That's the only measure of "superiority" that should matter in a conversation like this. You play the games on your schedule, and the teams that win the most games are rewarded.

The minute you start to look at things outside of Wins and Losses is the minute that the whole system comes collapsing down on itself in a pile of idiocy.

Well the system worked though. Team F beat Team A in Team A's stadium. I think division winners should be rewarded, but if they're not superior they'll get beat.

[blumj]

Okay, I am weird, but I really did laugh when I heard that Matt Cassell is Tom Brady's replacement at the Pro Bowl.

[Sea Ray]

How can Uhrlacher let the QB tackle him on that INT? He knows his QB is out and his struggling team needs a spark and he lets Rodgers tackle him by a finger. You're a rough and tumble LB, run through that!

[Kingspoint]

How can Uhrlacher let the QB tackle him on that INT? He knows his QB is out and his struggling team needs a spark and he lets Rodgers tackle him by a finger. You're a rough and tumble LB, run through that!


Aaron Rodgers is just as big (maybe not as wide a body, but he's taller in height and almost weighs as much) as Urlacher, and much more athletic.

Rodgers was all year, and still is, the best player in the NFL this year.

[Sea Ray]

Aaron Rodgers is just as big (maybe not as wide a body, but he's taller in height and almost weighs as much) as Urlacher, and much more athletic.

Rodgers was all year, and still is, the best player in the NFL this year.

Yeah but he barely got a hand on Uhrlacher. He needs to be athletic enough to run through that.

Good Lord, now the Bears are down to their 3rd string QB. Cutler does not look hurt enough not to play in a game of this magnitude

[Redsfan320]

The 2010 National Football Conference Champions are the NFC North-Wild-Card-6-seed Green Bay Packers.

While I was rooting for the Pack, what a great job by Caleb Hanie.

320

[Mutaman]

Congradulations to Mike McCarthy, Donald Driver, Charles Woodson and cheeseheads everywhere.

[RedsBaron]

I'm happy the Packers are in the Super Bowl but I am beginning to fear that we are in store for another Super Bowl title for the Steelers. :angry:

[Slyder]

I'm happy the Packers are in the Super Bowl but I am beginning to fear that we are in store for another Super Bowl title for the Steelers. :angry:

Green Bay is the best team of the NFC of those that made the playoffs, it won't be a boring Super Bowl.

If they survive they won't be getting an easy game like they did when they played Seattle.

[Oxilon]

Ben Roethlisberger is such an unlikeable person.

[Yachtzee]

Ben Roethlisberger is such an unlikeable person.

Man, the AFC playoffs have featured Ray Lewis, Rex Ryan, Belicheat, and the always evil Steelers. I didn't really care for any of the teams making the last two rounds of the playoffs, but the Steelers are beyond unlikeable. With Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, James Harrison and some others I'm sure I'll think of later, the Steelers might just have the biggest bunch of scumbags and cheap shot artists in the NFL. Of course, the Super Bowl hype will feed us BS about "The Steeler Way" and how awesome they are. To that I say, go Packers.

It still amazes me that some fathers still let their daughters walk around in Roethlisberger jerseys around here.

[Slyder]

Man, the AFC playoffs have featured Ray Lewis, Rex Ryan, Belicheat, and the always evil Steelers. I didn't really care for any of the teams making the last two rounds of the playoffs, but the Steelers are beyond unlikeable. With Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, James Harrison and some others I'm sure I'll think of later, the Steelers might just have the biggest bunch of scumbags and cheap shot artists in the NFL. Of course, the Super Bowl hype will feed us BS about "The Steeler Way" and how awesome they are. To that I say, go Packers.

It still amazes me that some women period walk around in Roethlisberger jerseys around here.

Fixed for accuracy. I mean seriously after the stories of his umm.... escapades you would think he'd be the LAST guy most women would want to wear.

[Caveat Emperor]

Ben Roethlisberger is such an unlikeable person.

Another ring, and you almost have to consider him a lock for the Hall of Fame.

[Oxblood]

Cutler has a sprained mcl, he's gonna take a lot of heat. He looked like he didn't want to be playing while he was in there anyways.

[LoganBuck]

Cutler has a sprained mcl, he's gonna take a lot of heat. He looked like he didn't want to be playing while he was in there anyways.

If you ever had a sprained MCL you would know that it isn't a shake it off kind of thing. Especially to be playing at that level, in those temperatures. A sprained MCL, is typically a partially torn MCL. It feels weak, and your lateral movement feels like you have no stability. He has to be able to protect himself from other players, and play to the level where he isn't hurting his team. Field conditions were also not good.

I had one in August of 2008 and had to wear a serious brace on my leg, all day for four months, and then whenever I was doing physical activity for another four months, and I still have to wear one for athletic activity. The initial pain was severe, and I thought something horrible had happened to my knee.

[BuckeyeRed27]

If you ever had a sprained MCL you would know that it isn't a shake it off kind of thing. Especially to be playing at that level, in those temperatures. A sprained MCL, is typically a partially torn MCL. It feels weak, and your lateral movement feels like you have no stability. He has to be able to protect himself from other players, and play to the level where he isn't hurting his team. Field conditions were also not good.

I had one in August of 2008 and had to wear a serious brace on my leg, all day for four months, and then whenever I was doing physical activity for another four months, and I still have to wear one for athletic activity. The initial pain was severe, and I thought something horrible had happened to my knee.

Yep 100% correct. There is no way he could have effectively played football on that. He would have gotten killed and probably couldn't throw.

In fact had they won it would be unlikely he'd be available for the Super Bowl.

People really need to lay off this guy.

[Oxilon]

Philip Rivers played against the Pats in the playoffs with a torn ACL. Playoffs are where legends are made. Is a sprained MCL painful? I'm sure it is. It's still no excuse for Cutler though, as he should have never left the game.

[LoganBuck]

Philip Rivers played against the Pats in the playoffs with a torn ACL. Playoffs are where legends are made. Is a sprained MCL painful? I'm sure it is. It's still no excuse for Cutler though, as he should have never left the game.

It isn't about pain, it is about being effective. Jay Cutler isn't a Philip Rivers,Tom Brady or Peyton Manning type, playing behind a good veteran offensive line, in a precision passing attack. He is a gun slinger, behind a crappy offensive line, who was playing a darn good pass rushing team. It is about being smart, not some stupid, tough it out, macho thing. He needed to be able to move, plant and throw. He tried it out, decided he couldn't go, and that was it.

If you haven't had one, you would not understand. You are limited, and that wasn't what the Bears needed down 14 in the second half.

I am not a fan of Jay Cutler in any way, shape, or form. People need to leave him alone.

[Razor Shines]

It was his left knee. I have no idea how he could have planted to throw with a partially torn mcl.

[Sea Ray]

I think one of the reasons he is taking so much heat is his demeanor on the sideline. He wasn't wearing headphones or coaching up the other QBs. Nor was he cheering his team on. He looked detached. Your starting QB is your leader. Roethlisberger would've had his baseball hat on backwards and high fived his teamates as they came off the field. Jay Cutler's body language reminded me of Jeff George or Ryan Leaf.

Lovie said in his presser today that the coaching staff made him sit. I think he's just covering Cutler's A there but that is what he said today

[Razor Shines]

That's not true either. I saw him cheer and high five after they scored the TD. The camera cut away from him almost instantly though.

I don't care at all about Cutler but this is all because of the image people had of him before yesterday game.

[RichRed]

I think one of the reasons he is taking so much heat is his demeanor on the sideline. He wasn't wearing headphones or coaching up the other QBs. Nor was he cheering his team on. He looked detached. Your starting QB is your leader. Roethlisberger would've had his baseball hat on backwards and high fived his teamates as they came off the field. Jay Cutler's body language reminded me of Jeff George or Ryan Leaf.


As much as I can't stand Ben R., I agree with this. Cutler has always had lousy body language: pouting, hanging and shaking his head, trudging off the field like somebody stepped on his dog. I'm not the biggest "intangibles" guy around but you expect the de facto leader of your team to carry himself better than that.

EDIT: I still don't blame him for not being in the game on a sprained MCL.

[Sea Ray]

That's not true either. I saw him cheer and high five after they scored the TD. The camera cut away from him almost instantly though.

I don't care at all about Cutler but this is all because of the image people had of him before yesterday game.

So you were fine with his demeanor?

[Razor Shines]

So you were fine with his demeanor?

I wasn't on the sideline. I have no idea what his demeanor really was. Just cause a guy looks likes he's not leading based on a TV shot of him here and there doesn't mean he's not leading. Different guys "lead" in different ways.

I saw a shot of him sitting next to Hanie as he was going over the photos of the defenses, but it was only a 2 second shot. I saw him wearing an ear piece listening in to the play calling.

Again I have no idea what he was doing on the sideline. For all I know you guys could be right. He could have been texting people and talking to the cheerleaders after he got hurt.

Maybe it's just his normal demeanor and his teammates understand he leads in understated ways. Should have put on a rah rah show and done things he normally doesn't do just for the cameras?

[Sea Ray]

The cameras showed a lot of him and I'd say his demeanor was that of someone who couldn't wait for the game to end. Not what you want from your field general

[kaldaniels]

Philip Rivers played against the Pats in the playoffs with a torn ACL. Playoffs are where legends are made. Is a sprained MCL painful? I'm sure it is. It's still no excuse for Cutler though, as he should have never left the game.

Statements like this are making the "Cutler should have played" crowd look silly.

[Razor Shines]

Statements like this are making the "Cutler should have played" crowd look silly.

Why because he had a scope done before hand? Had time to be fitted for an ACL brace?

I played my whole senior season of high school baseball with a torn ACL. But I had torn it during basketball season and I had a scope and was fitted for an ACL brace. Arrangements can be made but you need time and that's something that Cutler didn't have.

[Razor Shines]

The cameras showed a lot of him and I'd say his demeanor was that of someone who couldn't wait for the game to end. Not what you want from your field general

Maybe he couldn't but maybe that's just the way he looks? Maybe there's not other meaning behind it other than that's how he looks??? I don't know...don't know the guy.

[IslandRed]

If people want to question his attitude after coming out of the game, I suppose that's fair, although RichRed is right when he said Cutler always looks like that.

But I have to give the guy the benefit of the doubt with regards to physical toughness. I remember watching him play at Vanderbilt. He was a dropback QB playing behind Vandy lines in a league with the best defensive lines college football has to offer, starting all but one game in four seasons (and that was a coach's DNP, not an injury). He might have been the most-leveled quarterback in college football history. And he played the Mike Martz Sacrificial Lamb role this year without getting dinged until yesterday. Dude can take a hit.

[Razor Shines]

I just heard what Trent Dilfer said about Cutler. I have to believe Dilfer has a personal issue with Cutler and is using this as an opportunity to rip him.

He says no people shouldn't question his toughness. But then goes on to say that Cutler "was looking for a way out of the game." You should question why he didn't "fight and claw and scratch to stay in that game. That he didn't fight and push the trainers and doctors away and try to run back out there and make someone physically grab the back of his jersey and yank him back off of the field." He said that's why "100 players tweet, they're question that side of it. Not one came to his defense."

Was it really 100 players? No. I've heard several come to his defense and not just his teammates. Dilfer is a ******. How many times have you seen a professional athlete attempt to run out on the field but get physically pulled off? Not many, if any.

[Oxilon]

Statements like this are making the "Cutler should have played" crowd look silly.

Why? Because it makes Cutler look worse for coming out of the game? Same position, same handiness, same age. The only difference is Philip Rivers had a torn ACL and MCL and still played. Cutler sprained his MCL. If Philip Rivers can play with the ligaments completely ripped apart, I'd think Cutler could have played with a partial MCL tear with his team down in the NFC Championship.

Would I have played? Most definitely not, but that's just another reason I'm an accountant and not a Pro Bowl caliber QB making millions.

As it turns out, Drew Brees was playing with a MCL sprain for weeks this season, so you can take that FWIW too.

[Razor Shines]

Why? Because it makes Cutler look worse for coming out of the game? Same position, same handiness, same age. The only difference is Philip Rivers had a torn ACL and MCL and still played. Cutler sprained his MCL. If Philip Rivers can play with the ligaments completely ripped apart, I'd think Cutler could have played with a partial MCL tear with his team down in the NFC Championship.

Would I have played? Most definitely not, but that's just another reason I'm an accountant and not a Pro Bowl caliber QB making millions.

As it turns out, Drew Brees was playing with a MCL sprain for weeks this season, so you can take that FWIW too.

Time. It takes time for the trauma of the injury to go away. It takes time to be properly fitted for the brace. Rivers had surgery before he played. If Cutler had a week or so he probably would have played too.

[Oxilon]

Time. It takes time for the trauma of the injury to go away. It takes time to be properly fitted for the brace. Rivers had surgery before he played. If Cutler had a week or so he probably would have played too.

That's be true if they had the same injury. However, Cutler only had Grade II MCL tear compared to River's Grade III ACL and MCL tear. Considering it was the NFC Championship game and Cutler injured himself in the 1st half, I still think he could have done some precautionary work during halftime and came back out and played.

[kaldaniels]

Time. It takes time for the trauma of the injury to go away. It takes time to be properly fitted for the brace. Rivers had surgery before he played. If Cutler had a week or so he probably would have played too.

Agreed completely.

My issue with Oxilon's take is that he is somehow using the transitive property to compare injuries, when in fact there are so many variables it is unfair to compare one to another.

[Chip R]

I think this brings up an interesting subject. I don't think there is any right or wrong answer here but it'll be interesting to see what people think. Let's say there is a star player - like Cutler but not necessarily Cutler - that is injured either before or during a game. The player in question is injured enough where he can play but he may not be quite as effective as he was at full strength. Do you believe this player should play or should he sit so his backup can play and possibly do a better job? If the hurt player goes out and plays through the injury is he being heroic and giving his team that extra spark to win or is he being selfish and trying to make himself look good? If it is the latter, is he not being a team player by playing? If the player sits is he not helping the team by letting an inferior player play in his place or is he being a team player by letting the inferior player play?

[kaldaniels]

A lot of gray area Chip, but if by taking himself out, a player gives his team a better chance to win, I'm for it.

[MWM]

Is this what sports fandom has come to, debating what a player's sideline demeanor means? Really?

[blumj]

It's television programming, producers choose what to show us and what not to show us based on what makes for more sensational storylines. And we continue to buy whatever they want to sell.

[Oxblood]

Cutler took the cowards way out. Nice job quitting on your team.

[Razor Shines]

Cutler took the cowards way out. Nice job quitting on your team.

LOL. I've seen a lot of dumb things posted on here but.......

[Oxblood]

Imo he didn't want to be out there.

[Cedric]

That's be true if they had the same injury. However, Cutler only had Grade II MCL tear compared to River's Grade III ACL and MCL tear. Considering it was the NFC Championship game and Cutler injured himself in the 1st half, I still think he could have done some precautionary work during halftime and came back out and played.

Major MCL sprain.. One more bad hit and he probably would have completely wiped out his ACL.

I don't see any reason to ridicule Cutler here.

[Razor Shines]

Lol, Must have been reading some of your recent posts.

He quit, it was obvious he didn't want to be out there.

Oh. I didn't know that. Did he text you while he wasn't leading his team on the sidelines?

[Boss-Hog]

Take the personal stuff off the board, guys. This thread has otherwise been civil and it needs to remain that way.

[Yachtzee]

Major MCL sprain.. One more bad hit and he probably would have completely wiped out his ACL.

I don't see any reason to ridicule Cutler here.

From what I can recall when I talked to an orthopaedic surgeon years ago, a tear or sprain to the MCL can be much more problematic than an ACL tear. With the ACL being in the middle of the knee, some people, particularly those with incredible leg strength, can keep going with a torn ACL because the strong leg muscles are able to maintain stability in the knee to compensate for the torn ACL. According to my doctor, some players, most notably Thurman Thomas, were able to continue playing with torn ACLs in both knees because of their superior leg strength. On the other hand, the MCL is on the inside of the knee, so a weakness or tear to that ligament can make it much more difficult to maintain stability. You only have the muscles on one side of the knee providing stability as opposed to all the muscles supporting the knee.

Unless someone has dealt with an MCL or ACL tear personally, I don't think they have any idea how hard it is to deal with. You can't just compare one person to another and say "So-and-so played on a torn ACL/MCL, so this guy should have." Everybody has differences physically, so one guy's injury may not be the same as another's, even if it occurs in the same area.

[LoganBuck]

From what I can recall when I talked to an orthopaedic surgeon years ago, a tear or sprain to the MCL can be much more problematic than an ACL tear. With the ACL being in the middle of the knee, some people, particularly those with incredible leg strength, can keep going with a torn ACL because the strong leg muscles are able to maintain stability in the knee to compensate for the torn ACL. According to my doctor, some players, most notably Thurman Thomas, were able to continue playing with torn ACLs in both knees because of their superior leg strength. On the other hand, the MCL is on the inside of the knee, so a weakness or tear to that ligament can make it much more difficult to maintain stability. You only have the muscles on one side of the knee providing stability as opposed to all the muscles supporting the knee.


This is pretty much exactly what my orthopedist told me.

[Razor Shines]

From what I can recall when I talked to an orthopaedic surgeon years ago, a tear or sprain to the MCL can be much more problematic than an ACL tear. With the ACL being in the middle of the knee, some people, particularly those with incredible leg strength, can keep going with a torn ACL because the strong leg muscles are able to maintain stability in the knee to compensate for the torn ACL. According to my doctor, some players, most notably Thurman Thomas, were able to continue playing with torn ACLs in both knees because of their superior leg strength. On the other hand, the MCL is on the inside of the knee, so a weakness or tear to that ligament can make it much more difficult to maintain stability. You only have the muscles on one side of the knee providing stability as opposed to all the muscles supporting the knee.

Unless someone has dealt with an MCL or ACL tear personally, I don't think they have any idea how hard it is to deal with. You can't just compare one person to another and say "So-and-so played on a torn ACL/MCL, so this guy should have." Everybody has differences physically, so one guy's injury may not be the same as another's, even if it occurs in the same area.

Exactly

[Hoosier Red]

Why? Because it makes Cutler look worse for coming out of the game? Same position, same handiness, same age. The only difference is Philip Rivers had a torn ACL and MCL and still played. Cutler sprained his MCL. If Philip Rivers can play with the ligaments completely ripped apart, I'd think Cutler could have played with a partial MCL tear with his team down in the NFC Championship.

Would I have played? Most definitely not, but that's just another reason I'm an accountant and not a Pro Bowl caliber QB making millions.

As it turns out, Drew Brees was playing with a MCL sprain for weeks this season, so you can take that FWIW too.

Should probably point out that Rivers came out of the game the week before. There's no telling whether Cutler could have played in the Super Bowl after getting a brace and practicing with it for two weeks.

It's all speculation based on information which the Bears were surely not going to release to make him look bad, but he came out at the end of the half, made his case, tried to play in the second half, and then was taken out.

While many knocked Lovie's choice of bringing in the 3rd quarterback with 36 seconds left in the third quarter, my guess is part of the motivation was to make sure Cutler couldn't go back in(by rule.)

[Caveat Emperor]

Injured or not, I'd never want Jay Cutler as the starting QB of my team.

[Revering4Blue]

SI.com’s Don Banks is reporting that the Titans and longtime coach Jeff Fisher are preparing to part ways.:confused:

The move is awfully surprising because owner Bud Adams essentially chose Fisher over troubled QB Vince Young in a showdown of the loser-must-leave-town following Tennessee’s 6-10 season. But according to Banks, Fisher was troubled that defensive coordinator and close friend Chuck Cecil was fired while very well-respected defensive line coach Jim Washburn left for Philadelphia.

At this point, we’re not sure if Adams is firing Fisher, if Fisher is resigning or if it’s somewhere in between.

http://nfl-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/27277666

[Slyder]

http://nfl-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/27277666

I heard this on ESPN Radio and it seem to make sense.

Tennessee is likely in a position where its going to be very tough to be successful. Their QB is either going to be a guy they draft, Kerry Collins, or some reclamation project (JaWalrus anyone?) and with Fischer with only 1 year left maybe both sides thought it be better that someone new had the say on the choices.

This doesnt even include the fact about the coaching changes.

Fischer saves face knowing he "won" but at the same time he can start fresh somewhere else as (likely) a head coach in 2012 and Tennessee can start changing the direction to the vision of the new coach. This isnt a firing or else it happen a month ago.

[IslandRed]

I think they were going to try and eke one more year out of Fisher, which was reasonable with the lockout looming, but the staff upheaval in the last few weeks may have proven the pointlessness of that approach. Given the rumored size of the contract buyout (less than he was due to make in 2011, but closer to that figure than the nothing he was entitled to if he resigned of his own accord), "mutual decision" is probably accurate.

[Razor Shines]

Injured or not, I'd never want Jay Cutler as the starting QB of my team.

That's completely fair and I wouldn't either, unless of course the only other option was Todd Collins. But this stuff about him quiting is silly.

[redsfandan]

Once in a blue moon I'll check out the polls on ESPN to kill a few minutes. One of the poll questions that I found today is "Which of these is the least likeable person?" The options are Jay Cutler, Ben Roethlisberger, or Michael Vick. And this is how the votes break down right now:

Cutler 44%
Roethlisberger 35%
Vick 21%

On the the flip side, 68% of the voters answered no to the question "Has Jay Cutler been treated fairly in the aftermath of the NFC title game?" At least that one I can agree with. But, Cutler is being vilified for things that are completely different than Roethlisberger and Vick. It's silly but I think the perceived attitude that he's shown in the past has just made this a bigger deal to some people than it really is.

[kaldaniels]

Once in a blue moon I'll check out the polls on ESPN to kill a few minutes. One of the poll questions that I found today is "Which of these is the least likeable person?" The options are Jay Cutler, Ben Roethlisberger, or Michael Vick. And this is how the votes break down right now:

Cutler 44%
Roethlisberger 35%
Vick 21%

On the the flip side, 68% of the voters answered no to the question "Has Jay Cutler been treated fairly in the aftermath of the NFC title game?" At least that one I can agree with. But, Cutler is being vilified for things that are completely different than Roethlisberger and Vick. It's silly but I think the perceived attitude that he's shown in the past has just made this a bigger deal to some people than it really is.

We know why each of the 3 players in the poll was included in it. And for Jay Cutler to come out on top...I don't have a word to describe it.

[Razor Shines]

Once in a blue moon I'll check out the polls on ESPN to kill a few minutes. One of the poll questions that I found today is "Which of these is the least likeable person?" The options are Jay Cutler, Ben Roethlisberger, or Michael Vick. And this is how the votes break down right now:

Cutler 44%
Roethlisberger 35%
Vick 21%

.

Wow, that's pretty shocking. But, like I said earlier in the thread a lot of the heat Cutler is taking is because most people's minds were already made up about him. They just needed another reason to rip him.

[blumj]

That sure says a lot about the majority of the people who participate in those polls.

[Razor Shines]

Flipped over for the end of the Pro Bowl last night. I don't know why they play that game. I'd be more interested in seeing some kind of skills competition.

There was 1 funny thing I saw. With around 40 seconds left in the game the AFC was down by 30 or something. Matt Cassell is QBing for the AFC and Peyton Manning is nearly out on the field trying to get the ref's attention because he thinks that the NFC is playing an illegal defense. Geez, Peyton you might want to let it go.

[Eric_the_Red]

Flipped over for the end of the Pro Bowl last night. I don't know why they play that game. I'd be more interested in seeing some kind of skills competition.

There was 1 funny thing I saw. With around 40 seconds left in the game the AFC was down by 30 or something. Matt Cassell is QBing for the AFC and Peyton Manning is nearly out on the field trying to get the ref's attention because he thinks that the NFC is playing an illegal defense. Geez, Peyton you might want to let it go.

LOL- yeah, when Peyton was in the game he went to question the refs after the INT he threw. Dude is a competitor. Seems like he has some Michael Jordan in him- he wants to win at everything he does.

[Razor Shines]

LOL- yeah, when Peyton was in the game he went to question the refs after the INT he threw. Dude is a competitor. Seems like he has some Michael Jordan in him- he wants to win at everything he does.

Didn't watch that early but can totally see him doing that. And I agree, that's just the way he is.

[kaldaniels]

So with the Pro Bowl the law of probability says that someday, a marquee guy is going to suffer a devastating injury in it, even going at 10% (yeah that's a stretch) full-speed. Maybe it has even happened in the past, I don't know. But in this day and age of second-guessing and media saturation, what do you think the repercussions would be of say, Peyton Manning suffering a injury last night that would keep him out for a year and/or end his career? Would life as we know it in the Pro Bowl go on?

[Razor Shines]

So with the Pro Bowl the law of probability says that someday, a marquee guy is going to suffer a devastating injury in it, even going at 10% (yeah that's a stretch) full-speed. Maybe it has even happened in the past, I don't know. But in this day and age of second-guessing and media saturation, what do you think the repercussions would be of say, Peyton Manning suffering a injury last night that would keep him out for a year and/or end his career? Would life as we know it in the Pro Bowl go on?

I bet that might kill the game. That would kinda be a dumb reason to kill it, but it needs to be done, whatever the reason.

[Chip R]

So with the Pro Bowl the law of probability says that someday, a marquee guy is going to suffer a devastating injury in it, even going at 10% (yeah that's a stretch) full-speed. Maybe it has even happened in the past, I don't know. But in this day and age of second-guessing and media saturation, what do you think the repercussions would be of say, Peyton Manning suffering a injury last night that would keep him out for a year and/or end his career? Would life as we know it in the Pro Bowl go on?

Didn't some guy from New England suffer a serious injury in a skills thing or some kind of flag football thing several years ago?

[Reds Fanatic]

Didn't some guy from New England suffer a serious injury in a skills thing or some kind of flag football thing several years ago?

Yes about 10 years ago or so they had a rookie running back coming off a really good rookie season. At that time the pro bowl had a rookie flag footbal game and this player blew out his knee so badly he was out of football for over 2 years and really was never the same after that injury.

[Boss-Hog]

Correct - Robert Edwards.

[Roy Tucker]

Drew Brees dislocated his elbow 2-3 years ago, IIRC.

I can't see how they can continue the game. Its an open farce now. That game yesterday was absurd.

[Chip R]

Drew Brees dislocated his elbow 2-3 years ago, IIRC.

I can't see how they can continue the game. Its an open farce now. That game yesterday was absurd.

After seeing dozens of Pro Bowls and NHL ASGs and NBA ASGs I don't see how anyone can bag on the MLB ASG.

[Boston Red]

After seeing dozens of Pro Bowls and NHL ASGs and NBA ASGs I don't see how anyone can bag on the MLB ASG.

Why not? Just because it sucks less than the other all-star games doesn't make it not suck.

[Chip R]

Why not? Just because it sucks less than the other all-star games doesn't make it not suck.


Why does it suck? At least everyone is trying their best. You don't see C.C. Sabathias throw up a BP fastball to Ryan Howard so he can hit a home run. You don't see Pujols strike out just to make Justin Verlander look good. You don't see Evan Longoria let a ball go past him that was a step to his right.

[Sea Ray]

Why does it suck? At least everyone is trying their best. You don't see C.C. Sabathias throw up a BP fastball to Ryan Howard so he can hit a home run. You don't see Pujols strike out just to make Justin Verlander look good. You don't see Evan Longoria let a ball go past him that was a step to his right.

I don't think the MLB All Star game sucks but I disagree that everyone's trying their best. Tony LaRussa wasn't trying his best a few years ago when he left Albert Pujols on the bench in a one run game with bases loaded and 2 outs in the 9th

[Chip R]

I don't think the MLB All Star game sucks but I disagree that everyone's trying their best. Tony LaRussa wasn't trying his best a few years ago when he left Albert Pujols on the bench in a one run game with bases loaded and 2 outs in the 9th

That's a manager, not a player.

[Sea Ray]

That's a manager, not a player.

Agreed but how does that make it OK? It sure affects the game, does it not?

[RedsBaron]

I wish there was no expectation that every player chosen for the MLB all star game must get in the game. Presently it seems that the starters only get a couple of at bats before they are pulled.

[Yachtzee]

I wish there was no expectation that every player chosen for the MLB all star game must get in the game. Presently it seems that the starters only get a couple of at bats before they are pulled.

I seem to remember the All Star games from the late '70s-early '80s, when the NL was taking it to the AL every year, where managers would, as a courtesy, try to get at least one player from every team in the game if the result was settled late, and even then, it was position players only and they might just get a pinch-hit appearance. Starting pitchers would throw around 3 innings and then they'd bring in the next starter for a few innings. Relievers were only brought in for a match-up advantage or to close out the game, but rarely did they burn through the bullpen like they do now.

[Chip R]

Agreed but how does that make it OK? It sure affects the game, does it not?

Did I say that made it OK? I don't know why he did that but that's one example. Counter that with all the NHL ASGs where there's no checking and double digit scores for both teams. Or a Pro Bowl where the defense is handcuffed by the rules. Or an NBA ASG where if someone actually took a charge it would be by accident.

[Sea Ray]

Did I say that made it OK?

I refuse to respond with the equivalent to your question by saying "did I say you said it was OK?" (See how ridiculous that sounds?)

You were making a distinction between players and managers trying to win. If it's not OK then why spell out the difference as you did?

[RedsBaron]

I seem to remember the All Star games from the late '70s-early '80s, when the NL was taking it to the AL every year, where managers would, as a courtesy, try to get at least one player from every team in the game if the result was settled late, and even then, it was position players only and they might just get a pinch-hit appearance. Starting pitchers would throw around 3 innings and then they'd bring in the next starter for a few innings. Relievers were only brought in for a match-up advantage or to close out the game, but rarely did they burn through the bullpen like they do now.

My favorite All Star game was the 1970 contest which famously featured Pete Rose's crashing into Ray Fosse to win the game in the 12th inning. Carl Yastremzski was voted the MVP of the game, as Yaz had 4 hits in 6 at bats. Luis Aparicio also had six at bats and Davey Johnson had five. As the game is managed today no way would Yaz have stayed in the game long enough to bat six times.
I also looked at the 1966 box score for the All Star game, won by the NL 2-1. The NL used four pitchers: Koufax, Bunning, Marichal and Gaylord Perry. While an extra outfielder or two appeared as a pinch hitter, the NL starting outfield played the entire game, and why not, since they were guys named Mays, Aaron and Clemente.

[blumj]

I wish there was no expectation that every player chosen for the MLB all star game must get in the game. Presently it seems that the starters only get a couple of at bats before they are pulled.
That doesn't really bother me, as long as the substitutions make some kind of sense and they don't waste all the pitchers. The reserves are really good players, too. Joe Maddon did a really good job managing it like a real game while still getting almost everyone involved a few years ago, although I guess not every roster winds up being as easy to work with as the one he had that year. More often, you get to a point where it makes sense to use a pinch runner or a RH pinch hitter, but the players you're trying to get into the game are all slow or LHHs.

[Sea Ray]

As I recall, one player long ago (maybe it was Rod Carew) complained that he was pulled so soon from an All Star game. My how the culture has changed

[Slyder]

Would having the Pro Bowl at the site of the Super Bowl (when its on turf) and in the middle of the Super Bowl Brew haha matter? Give the players who make it an opportunity to be acknowledged and experience the Super Bowl when so many will never experience it?