Week 2- Bengals vs. Ravens

[Redsfan320]

Let's get it rollin'. Goin' for win #1!

320

[GIDP]

Bengals run the ball a ton in the first half and go 3 and out 3 times.

2nd half they throw it and score 21 points.

[MWM]

I have a bad feeling this one is going to be ugly.

[CTA513]

Spread them out and use Scott and Leonard as emergency dump offs out of the backfield and I can see them having some success. Try to pound the ball over and over and it could end up being a long day.

[Oxilon]

It's way to early for a game to be a must-win, but this game should give us a good barometer of where this season is heading. After being completely mishandled last week (the score doesn't even do justice, IMO), we're at home playing a good team we beat twice last season.

Entering this season, I had my doubts about this team -- when you talk about the parity of the NFL, our difficult schedule, and the Bengals ineptitude when it comes to consistency and expectations over all. So a loss today wouldn't shock me by any means, but it would definitely put a wrench into the postseason talk.

[KoryMac5]

Would love to see Scott mixed in here today. Ravens were surprised by Benson last season they won't make the same mistake again. Ray Lewis talked about Benson's patience this week with the media. Throwing Scott's style at them for 10 -12 touches will help keep them off balance.

[The Operator]

Why did they go with Scott instead of Benson on that 3rd &1? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

They've tried to run Benson outside, now they send Scott up the middle. Uh... huh.

[forfreelin04]

Benson looking very 2009 which answers all the haters that said he would regress in 2010.

[forfreelin04]

Did anyone read Mel Kiper's take on Carson coming out of the draft? Via Lance's Blog.

Mel on Carson....back then
From Mel Kiper's 2003 Draft Report
Negatives: Lacks a quick arm like Elway or Mike Vick and has some windup and three-quarters arm delivery. Forces ball, making dumb mistakes at times. Doesn't have much personality or fire and is a marginal leader, who seems to lack the persona to attract teammates as followers. Average scrambler. Has short accuracy and is inconsistent on short-to-medium and long passes. Erratic, hot-and-cold player who lacks velocity on deep out. Does not have great instincts and intelligence or IQ. Streaky and loses poise and confidence. Can improve technique and accuracy. Slow reactor. Lacks field vision. Better in rhythm system. Ran a limited offense and loses accuracy when pressured, but he will throw away and take a sack. Good but not great arm. Has questionable mental toughness and is questionable at handling pressure. Tends to bird-dog his primary receiver.

[The Operator]

Carson is lucky he doesn't have about 7 INTs so far. He's making some awful throws.

[Oxilon]

7 INTs is pretty rough. I can really only see 2 INTs. But with that said, he should also have atleast 2 TDs. I don't know how he missed CJ in the endzone. Palmer's not exactly proving his critics wrong with this game that's been full of missed opportunities.

Concerning the Ravens, is Flacco really their future QB? He looks like Kyler Boller back there.

[Joseph]

The Ravens make adjustments, the Bengals don't.

TD Ravens.

[The Operator]

7 INTs is pretty rough. I can really only see 2 INTs. But with that said, he should also have atleast 2 TDs. Well, I've never been above hyperbole in the heat if a post. :p:


Concerning the Ravens, is Flacco really their future QB? He looks like Kyler Boller back there.I've never been very impressed with him.

And as I type that, The Ravens go ahead 7-6. Aye.

[KoryMac5]

Have they even gone no huddle at all today. Frustrating not being able to move the ball at all whether its the Ravens or not.

[MWM]

They're going to regret not getting in the end zone. It's 15-10, but there's plenty of time.

[The Operator]

Did Marvin just have his red flag out - as if he was going to challenge a penalty?

Mmmk, Marvin.

The lack of touchdowns are a little depressing. They get the ball handed to them with great field position after the interception, and then can't punch it in. Really need a TD there.

15-10 good guys.

[The Operator]

Flacco picked off by Ndukwe. That should seal it. INT #4 for Flacco on the day.

[UKFlounder]

Well, they held on to win, despite no TDs. It counts as much as any other win.

[Yachtzee]

Not a pretty win, but it shows that, once again, the Bengals seem to have the Ravens' number and that maybe the Ravens aren't all the prognosticators thought they were. Still a lot of football to be played though.

[Tony Cloninger]

Can I get a Steeler fan to tell how in the Heck they are 2-0? I mean they might as well be the 1976-77 Steelers with Mike Kruzcek starting...throwing 10 passes while Franco, Frenchy and Rocky run the ball 50+ times.

[Oxilon]

Ugly win, but a win none the less.

Regarding the offense though, it has to improve. The Offensive line is garbage. I knew it coming into the season. I knew it when Andre Smith couldn't get in shape. It's bad and I don't see how it can improve throughout the season. With that said though, Palmer has to get better than this. He had wide open WRs but he simply was missing them. I'll give him credit for no INTs though -- that's a big plus in a defensive struggle like this game was.

[Oxilon]

Can I get a Steeler fan to tell how in the Heck they are 2-0? I mean they might as well be the 1976-77 Steelers with Mike Kruzcek starting...throwing 10 passes while Franco, Frenchy and Rocky run the ball 50+ times.

The Steelers are the St. Louis Cardinals of the AFC North. You look at their roster and you don't see a complete team, yet they're always a good team.

I'm convinced it starts from the top of the organization. The Rooney's run the Steelers like a professional organization. They're always up to date with everything and improving, kind of like Apple. Than you have Mike Brown, who runs the Bengals like the 1994 version of DOS.

[cincrazy]

Ugly win, but a win none the less.

Regarding the offense though, it has to improve. The Offensive line is garbage. I knew it coming into the season. I knew it when Andre Smith couldn't get in shape. It's bad and I don't see how it can improve throughout the season. With that said though, Palmer has to get better than this. He had wide open WRs but he simply was missing them. I'll give him credit for no INTs though -- that's a big plus in a defensive struggle like this game was.

Well, Carson threw at least two balls, one near our goal line and another near the Ravens', that should have been picked. I think he was lucky to not get intercepted more than careful with the football.

[Redhook]

Carson was terrible today. Just flat out awful. His line, which was very bad, should've been a lot worse. Like others have stated, he should have quite a few more int's. He looks nothing like the Carson of old. And I'm worried about that.

Bratkowski just reconfirmed it again to me that he's an idiot when it comes to play-calling. This is the only organization in the NFL that would continue to keep this guy around. I can't stand him, if you couldn't tell. For example: 50 seconds left in the 1st half on your own 30. Run, pass, run, punt. So dumb. Either run out the clock or go for it. Of course, he chooses neither. Then, the Bengals get another gift from the Ravens and have 1st and 10 at the 11 with just a few minutes left. It looked like they were protecting a 30-point lead. How can you not attempt to throw one pass over the 1st down line? Why not throw a ball to your two studs? And there were plenty more head-scratchers throughout the game. Oh, and where was the no-huddle?

I know the Bengals won, and I'm thrilled about that, but this game was ugly and the Bengals didn't show me one positive on offense. Not one. The defense played ok, but Flacco was the reason the Bengals won. They didn't win it, the Ravens lost the game.

[Tony Cloninger]

The defense was the reason they won......and contributed to Flacco playing badly. I guess you can look at it both ways but I think this defense showed what it is about and that last week was an aberration.

[CTA513]

The offense won't be good unless they figure out what type of offense they want to be.
They have the weapons to be a passing offense but also want to run the ball, but its hard to play smash mouth when you don't even have a real fullback.

[Tony Cloninger]

How bad was the OL when they only gave up 1 sack and 7 QB hit's? Against this defense? I think I am missing what you saw.

Palmer has happy feet. He is or seems to be making the OL look worse than they are by being jittery.

[Eric_the_Red]

Palmer owes each member of the defense a steak dinner. They (and Nugent) completely bailed him out with the win.

[MWM]

Bratkowski just reconfirmed it again to me that he's an idiot when it comes to play-calling. This is the only organization in the NFL that would continue to keep this guy around. I can't stand him, if you couldn't tell. For example: 50 seconds left in the 1st half on your own 30. Run, pass, run, punt. So dumb. Either run out the clock or go for it. Of course, he chooses neither. Then, the Bengals get another gift from the Ravens and have 1st and 10 at the 11 with just a few minutes left. It looked like they were protecting a 30-point lead. How can you not attempt to throw one pass over the 1st down line? Why not throw a ball to your two studs? And there were plenty more head-scratchers throughout the game. Oh, and where was the no-huddle?

What he said.

[Mario-Rijo]

Can I get a Steeler fan to tell how in the Heck they are 2-0? I mean they might as well be the 1976-77 Steelers with Mike Kruzcek starting...throwing 10 passes while Franco, Frenchy and Rocky run the ball 50+ times.

It's called legit defense or if you prefer Troy Polamalu, he makes that big a difference. Well that and the fact that the Steelers have decided to run the ball to set up the pass like they used to but got away from it for awhile. They keep that defense fresh and a fresh Polamalu is an offense wrecker.

Though I'll also say it doesn't hurt getting a soft schedule from the NFL to start the season, that helps.

[Tony Cloninger]

I would not call Atlanta soft. I think they are better but the Steelers made them look like the 1993 bengals on offense. The Titans.....they are the de-jour playoff pick beacuse of the way things ended last year.

[SunDeck]

After last week, I'll take it.

[GIDP]

This loss was all Palmers fault.

oh they won? nvm still his fault.

[Eric_the_Red]

This loss was all Palmers fault.

oh they won? nvm still his fault.

You know a Bengal player is not playing well when homers Brad & Lap are ripping him. They pointed out a LOT of mistakes Carson made today. Can't see how anyone could defend his performance today.

[GIDP]

You know a Bengal player is not playing well when homers Brad & Lap are ripping him. They pointed out a LOT of mistakes Carson made today. Can't see how anyone could defend his performance today.

I didnt listen to the radio. I just think the amount of crap Palmer gets no matter how the team plays.

He throws up a ton of yards, with no running game and hes terrible.

He doesnt throw any picks, and the team wins and hes terrible.

I cant wait for a real bad day, or a great day and listen to how overboard the comments get.

[cincrazy]

I didnt listen to the radio. I just think the amount of crap Palmer gets no matter how the team plays.

He throws up a ton of yards, with no running game and hes terrible.

He doesnt throw any picks, and the team wins and hes terrible.

I cant wait for a real bad day, or a great day and listen to how overboard the comments get.

Carson Palmer sucked today. He made several horrible throws into coverage that should have been picked off, and he's totally out of synch with his receivers.

This isn't all Palmer's fault, the genius we have as an offensive coordinator certainly isn't helping matters. But Palmer just doesn't even look prepared out there. He has to step his game up, period. End of discussion.

[cincrazy]

How bad was the OL when they only gave up 1 sack and 7 QB hit's? Against this defense? I think I am missing what you saw.

Palmer has happy feet. He is or seems to be making the OL look worse than they are by being jittery.

Agreed. Palmer doesn't handle pressure well, even when there is NO pressure. I really think the knee injury from early 2006 has screwed with him mentally, he's just not the same player. I'm by no means saying "He's done," but it's certainly cause for concern. Get a few guys in his face, and he panics and doesn't make good decisions.

[GIDP]

Carson Palmer sucked today. He made several horrible throws into coverage that should have been picked off, and he's totally out of synch with his receivers.

This isn't all Palmer's fault, the genius we have as an offensive coordinator certainly isn't helping matters. But Palmer just doesn't even look prepared out there. He has to step his game up, period. End of discussion.

I think the 4 yard runs, then the 1 and 2 yard runs for losses right after is killing this team more than anything Palmer is doing.

[GIDP]

Palmer certainly does have happy feet.

[Sea Ray]

Palmer certainly does have happy feet.

Actually I think the O-line gave him great protection today. There's no excuse for his bad game but in his defense he did play well enough to win

[Sea Ray]

I have a bad feeling this one is going to be ugly.


I guess it was kinda ugly but a win's a win

[traderumor]

Just to be fair, the Ravens have yet to give up a TD yet in two games, so some credit is certainly due them.

[WVRed]

Just to be fair, the Ravens have yet to give up a TD yet in two games, so some credit is certainly due them.

By all rights the score should have been 35-10 instead of 15-10. Especially with all the opportunities in the red zone.

The Bengals did everything right in the offseason. Replaced Shayne Graham with a kicker who looks to be better so far and added Carson some firepower. Add TO, Shipley, and Gresham and the Bengals should have a pretty impressive offense. Palmer should have no excuses.

Palmer still has not taken the step forward to being an elite QB. I don't know if its the playcalling by Brat or just lack of execution, but something is definitely wrong.

I'm equally worried about the running game. We ran Cedric Benson into the ground last season and he is being outplayed by Bernard Scott. I wouldn't be surprised if Scott ends up starting by the end of the season, whether it be outperforming Benson or injury.

[GIDP]

I really dont think the offense is even running plays worthy of being called passing plays.

[GIDP]

I also feel like they werent even playing for TDs at times. Its like they wanted to just get 3 points every time down and not turn it over. Totally conservative play calling other than 1 pass to TO.

[Redsfaithful]

I also feel like they werent even playing for TDs at times. Its like they wanted to just get 3 points every time down and not turn it over. Totally conservative play calling other than 1 pass to TO.

This was definitely true at the end with the last field goal. I think they trust the defense and don't want to risk a TO there (this is me being charitable).

I don't know why they haven't gone downfield more, part of me worries the coaching staff doesn't think Palmer has the accuracy to do it consistently anymore. Will be interesting to see if they open it up more against what looks to be a bad Carolina team next week.

[Redhook]

I also feel like they werent even playing for TDs at times. Its like they wanted to just get 3 points every time down and not turn it over. Totally conservative play calling other than 1 pass to TO.

I agree 100%. And that's what really p****s me off. They were playing not to lose. They gave the Ravens so many chances to come back and win. This time, they got lucky. Next time, I don't know. You must knock a team out when you get a chance.

[Redhook]

I didnt listen to the radio. I just think the amount of crap Palmer gets no matter how the team plays.

He throws up a ton of yards, with no running game and hes terrible.

He doesnt throw any picks, and the team wins and hes terrible.

I cant wait for a real bad day, or a great day and listen to how overboard the comments get.

I think everyone misses the Palmer we used to have. He's not even close to where he used to be prior to his knee injury. His accuracy, or lack there of, is mind-boggling.

He has been absolutely terrible both weeks. Horrible. Last week, when the game mattered, he stunk. All the yards were against a lazy defense protecting a humongous league. Just because his fantasy stats were decent doesn't mean he had a good week. This week, they won, but he was terrible again. He missed so many open throws. And, he was missing them by yards, not feet. This concerns me.

I hope he doesn't have a day worse than yesterday. If so, no way they win.

The comments in this thread concerning Palmer have been spot on. I haven't read one that has over-reacted about how poorly he played. I'm a huge Palmer fan, but he has done nothing this year that shows me he's going to take this team to the next level this year.

I really hope he steps it up next week against a struggling Carolina team.

[hebroncougar]

People on here listent to Lance McAllister too much. He used to gripe that Palmer couldn't lead the team to victory (when we has throwing for 300 yards a game), and always said he like Roethlisberger better, even though he didn't have the stats, he "led" his team to victory. Now, Palmer doesn't throw near as much, but the team wins, and he puts on his blog how bad "Superman" Palmer is, and how he gets a free pass. The local talk show circuit drove me to XM, and thank goodness I've got it. People forget, he plays against the Steelers D, and the Ravens D twice a year.

[mash3024]

I am certainly a big carson backer but he looked very sloppy yesterday. The big miscue to me was the throw to chad in the back of the endzone. Chad had complete separation after the defender slipped and the pass wasn't even close.

I will give him a benefit of the doubt because I believe Bratkowski is possibly the worst play caller in the NFL. When my friends and I can sit on the couch and tell which play is coming, I can guarantee an opposing defense can as well.

[bucksfan2]

People on here listent to Lance McAllister too much. He used to gripe that Palmer couldn't lead the team to victory (when we has throwing for 300 yards a game), and always said he like Roethlisberger better, even though he didn't have the stats, he "led" his team to victory. Now, Palmer doesn't throw near as much, but the team wins, and he puts on his blog how bad "Superman" Palmer is, and how he gets a free pass. The local talk show circuit drove me to XM, and thank goodness I've got it. People forget, he plays against the Steelers D, and the Ravens D twice a year.

You get two balls in the endzone and Carson's performance looks a whole lot better. But to be honest that has plagued the Carson led Bengals for years. The only time they really scared the end zone was on the deep TO pass which should have been PI. But the throw the Chad was awful, the dump off the Shipply 8 yards short of the goal line was bad, the near int at about the 3 yard line was bad.

That game reminded me a lot of the Ravens game last season in which the Bengals dominated the entire game, the Ravens broke one big play, and the Bengals were forced to come from behind. The Bengals pretty much dominated every aspect of that game but couldn't score TD's. If you can't score TD's you leave the other team in the game. I thought TO would help that out tremendously but I just don't see it yet.

As for Brat I wonder how much is him vs how much is Palmer. Some of the run plays are maddening but you have to keep the D honest. Brat went from a great offensive coordinator a couple of years ago to someone no one wants now? I think its a mutual effort between his play calling and his offense's production.

[hebroncougar]

You get two balls in the endzone and Carson's performance looks a whole lot better. But to be honest that has plagued the Carson led Bengals for years. The only time they really scared the end zone was on the deep TO pass which should have been PI. But the throw the Chad was awful, the dump off the Shipply 8 yards short of the goal line was bad, the near int at about the 3 yard line was bad.

That game reminded me a lot of the Ravens game last season in which the Bengals dominated the entire game, the Ravens broke one big play, and the Bengals were forced to come from behind. The Bengals pretty much dominated every aspect of that game but couldn't score TD's. If you can't score TD's you leave the other team in the game. I thought TO would help that out tremendously but I just don't see it yet.

As for Brat I wonder how much is him vs how much is Palmer. Some of the run plays are maddening but you have to keep the D honest. Brat went from a great offensive coordinator a couple of years ago to someone no one wants now? I think its a mutual effort between his play calling and his offense's production.


Agreed. The ball to Chad was a bad pass. But I saw Chad alligator arm one, and drop one as well. Both of those go for first downs if I remember correctly. Bratkowski drive me crazy with his play calling. We've got some weapons on offense, I'd go 3 or 4 wide about 80% of the time and turn them loose.

[GIDP]

People on here listent to Lance McAllister too much. He used to gripe that Palmer couldn't lead the team to victory (when we has throwing for 300 yards a game), and always said he like Roethlisberger better, even though he didn't have the stats, he "led" his team to victory. Now, Palmer doesn't throw near as much, but the team wins, and he puts on his blog how bad "Superman" Palmer is, and how he gets a free pass. The local talk show circuit drove me to XM, and thank goodness I've got it. People forget, he plays against the Steelers D, and the Ravens D twice a year.

which is hilarious considering how he insults people non stop for saying Cordero isnt pitching good at all.

[GIDP]

I am certainly a big carson backer but he looked very sloppy yesterday. The big miscue to me was the throw to chad in the back of the endzone. Chad had complete separation after the defender slipped and the pass wasn't even close.

I will give him a benefit of the doubt because I believe Bratkowski is possibly the worst play caller in the NFL. When my friends and I can sit on the couch and tell which play is coming, I can guarantee an opposing defense can as well.

I thought chad if just continued running that ball would have been perfect. It looked like chad wanted to make that more of an amazing catch than it needed to be.

I will say the one to TO across the middle near the endzone that was almost picked was flat out awful.

[GIDP]

Agreed. The ball to Chad was a bad pass. But I saw Chad alligator arm one, and drop one as well. Both of those go for first downs if I remember correctly. Bratkowski drive me crazy with his play calling. We've got some weapons on offense, I'd go 3 or 4 wide about 80% of the time and turn them loose.

Or do something other than 7 yard passes, combined with outside runs for 2 yard losses.

[KoryMac5]

Jay Cutler looked pretty bad last season too. Change the offensive coordinator and he is a different man. Hmmm makes you wonder.

[bucksfan2]

I thought chad if just continued running that ball would have been perfect. It looked like chad wanted to make that more of an amazing catch than it needed to be.

I will say the one to TO across the middle near the endzone that was almost picked was flat out awful.

From my point of view Chad had to run like that because of the back of the endzone. It just was a poor pass.

[WVRed]

As for Carolina next week, there has been some rumblings that a QB change could happen with Jimmy Claussen taking over.

Think the Panthers would want to throw Claussen into the fire after our defense picked off Flacco four times?

[mlh1981]

That was an Ugly AFC North win.

For those complaining about Palmer, there are legit gripes, but look down the list of quarterbacks, and their play on Sunday. Lots of teams would like to have even THIS version of Palmer over what they have right now.

[joshnky]

That was an Ugly AFC North win.

For those complaining about Palmer, there are legit gripes, but look down the list of quarterbacks, and their play on Sunday. Lots of teams would like to have even THIS version of Palmer over what they have right now.

Agreed. Hopefully, he plays better next week but anything that brings a win against the Ravens or Steelers is good enough for me.

Compared to the first two weeks, the schedule appears to be very manageable until it ramps up again with the Steelers in Week 9. From that point on the schedule is brutal.

[CTA513]

The whole offense needs to play better.

[RiverRat13]

If the Bengals are to have a shot at the postseason, they must win their next three games. The schedule becomes absolutely brutal after that.

[Reds Freak]

I agree 100%. And that's what really p****s me off. They were playing not to lose. They gave the Ravens so many chances to come back and win. This time, they got lucky. Next time, I don't know. You must knock a team out when you get a chance.

This time they got lucky? That's the way the Bengals have played the past year or so and they are 8-0 against divisional teams. I really don't care how they do it, but if they continue with that winning percentage against Pitt, Baltimore, and Cleveland, mark me down as okay with it...

[cincrazy]

This time they got lucky? That's the way the Bengals have played the past year or so and they are 8-0 against divisional teams. I really don't care how they do it, but if they continue with that winning percentage against Pitt, Baltimore, and Cleveland, mark me down as okay with it...

This strategy works fine in the AFC North, but when you play the big boys, it's not going to hold up. Peyton, Brady, Brees, etc., aren't going to make the stupid plays that Flacco made yesterday. I LOVE this defense, it's full of fire and intensity, and it takes on the personality of Mike Zimmer, but it's not going to be good enough to cover up the offense's repeated mistakes.

The thing that I just absolutely can not fathom is the repeated penalties, especially pre-snap penalties. False starts, delays of game, it's just mind boggling. The line has been together long enough now to where it shouldn't be that much of a problem.

[Boss-Hog]

This strategy works fine in the AFC North, but when you play the big boys, it's not going to hold up. Peyton, Brady, Brees, etc., aren't going to make the stupid plays that Flacco made yesterday. I LOVE this defense, it's full of fire and intensity, and it takes on the personality of Mike Zimmer, but it's not going to be good enough to cover up the offense's repeated mistakes.

The thing that I just absolutely can not fathom is the repeated penalties, especially pre-snap penalties. False starts, delays of game, it's just mind boggling. The line has been together long enough now to where it shouldn't be that much of a problem.
You're spot on, in my opinion.

[Redsfaithful]

This strategy works fine in the AFC North, but when you play the big boys, it's not going to hold up.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but the Steelers and Ravens are in that "big boys" group also imo, and the Bengals have to get through them for the right to play the others in the playoffs.

[redsfandan]

Didn't know if this had already been mentioned:

@LionelLarry yeah boss, cracked rib but I'm good
about 5 hours ago via Echofon in reply to LionelLarry

http://twitter.com/OGOchoCinco/statuses/25040815331

[WVRed]

As for Carolina next week, there has been some rumblings that a QB change could happen with Jimmy Claussen taking over.

Think the Panthers would want to throw Claussen into the fire after our defense picked off Flacco four times?

Guess my question was answered today.

Starting at QB for the Carolina Panthers:

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/original/beavis.jpg

http://www.lugaluda.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/jimmy-clausen.jpg

[Mario-Rijo]

You're spot on, in my opinion.

Agreed X 10.

[Reds Freak]

This strategy works fine in the AFC North, but when you play the big boys, it's not going to hold up. Peyton, Brady, Brees, etc., aren't going to make the stupid plays that Flacco made yesterday. I LOVE this defense, it's full of fire and intensity, and it takes on the personality of Mike Zimmer, but it's not going to be good enough to cover up the offense's repeated mistakes.

The thing that I just absolutely can not fathom is the repeated penalties, especially pre-snap penalties. False starts, delays of game, it's just mind boggling. The line has been together long enough now to where it shouldn't be that much of a problem.

Absolutely 100 percent agree with you on the presnap penalties, those are ridiculous especially at home. But I don't agree with not including the Steelers and Ravens in the group of the big boys. The Jets got all the way to the AFC Championship game with a QB they wouldn't let throw more than five yards down the field.

[WMR]

Carson looked like an old man yesterday. I know it's just one game, but he just 'looked' really bad (not to mention his consistently errant throws).

I hope he CAN pull it together b/c the Bengals are only going to go as far as #9 can take them.

Agree with cincrazy on the pre-snap penalties. Are they #1 in the NFL right now for pre-snap penalties? They've gotta be in the running.

[Mario-Rijo]

Carson looked like an old man yesterday. I know it's just one game, but he just 'looked' really bad (not to mention his consistently errant throws).

I hope he CAN pull it together b/c the Bengals are only going to go as far as #9 can take them.

Agree with cincrazy on the pre-snap penalties. Are they #1 in the NFL right now for pre-snap penalties? They've gotta be in the running.

Yeah, I have defended the guy for quite some time now but he just isn't right, be it physical, mental, whatever. If he doesn't get it together we are doomed and perhaps for quite some time.

[Redhook]

The real question is this: does Bratkowski make all the plays on his own or does Marvin have any say? I'd really like to know. What do they talk about after the game when they watch the tape together? Does Marvin question him or does he just accept the poor job Brat's doing?

Once again, I don't like Brat, but I don't put all the blame on him by a long-shot. I just don't understand how someone with the creativity of an infant sleeping in a car seat is in control of calling plays for an NFL team. It's something I just cannot comprehend. Nor ever will.

Where was the no-huddle this week? Why not throw a shuttle-pass to Bernard Scott once in a while? He is a weapon, why not use him? How about TO in Redzone? 3 and 6 on the 7-yard line and you throw a 2-yard pass? And not only that, it appeared to be planned to protect the big field goal. I could go on and on.

In my opinion, all of those instances, plus how undisciplined this team is, is what irritates me about the coaching staff. They just don't seem to have a clue. I'm liking the talent a lot this year, just not the captains leading the ship. Thank god Zimmer, the next Bengals head coach, is still around.

[Redhook]

The real question is this: does Bratkowski make all the plays on his own or does Marvin have any say? I'd really like to know. What do they talk about after the game when they watch the tape together? Does Marvin question him or does he just accept the poor job Brat's doing?

Once again, I don't like Brat, but I don't put all the blame on him by a long-shot. I just don't understand how someone with the creativity of an infant sleeping in a car seat is in control of calling plays for an NFL team. It's something I just cannot comprehend. Nor ever will.

Where was the no-huddle this week? Why not throw a shuttle-pass to Bernard Scott once in a while? He is a weapon, why not use him? How about TO in Redzone? 3 and 6 on the 7-yard line and you throw a 2-yard pass? And not only that, it appeared to be planned to protect the big field goal. I could go on and on.

In my opinion, all of those instances, plus how undisciplined this team is, is what irritates me about the coaching staff. They just don't seem to have a clue. I'm liking the talent a lot this year, just not the captains leading the ship. Thank god Zimmer, the next Bengals head coach, is still around.

You may wonder why I'm so salty after a Bengals win. I love when they win, but I want this team to go all the way. It's the things listed above that will continue to hold this team back from taking it to the next level. I'm not satisfied with mediocrity. I want more.

[paintmered]

You may wonder why I'm so salty after a Bengals win. I love when they win, but I want this team to go all the way. It's the things listed above that will continue to hold this team back from taking it to the next level. I'm not satisfied with mediocrity. I want more.

Additionally, with the end of the salary cap after this season, you have to wonder if the Bengals are going to dedicate the resources to compete for a Super Bowl. SoP's history of frugality suggests this is the last chance in a long time for the Bengals to accomplish something.

[cincrazy]

I think Marvin may see what we do when it comes to the offense, but there's no guarantee he could get Bratkowski removed even if he wanted to. If Mike Brown can keep Dave Shula around for 3+ years, he's capable of keeping Brat around for 20.

It's just incredibly frustrating to watch. This team had an ENTIRE offseason to fix the sloppiness. Part of the problem last year was lack of weapons, but that can't be an excuse anymore. They had minicamps, training camp, preseason games, countless practices, yet they look like a group just recently thrown together. And personally, I would prefer if Carson had less say in the offense. It seems every time he audibles out of a play, the play clock strikes zero or a lineman moves early. Maybe Palmer just has too much on his plate and needs some responsibility taken away from him so he can just focus on playing.

The reason I'm so frustrated is because I see the talent level on this team. If this offense can click like the 2005 offense, we COULD beat the Pats and Colts and Saints. And part of the reason they're not clicking is because of their own stupidity.

[Redsfaithful]

Brat was the coordinator for pretty good offenses in 2005 and 2006. What's changed? To me it all goes back to the line, I think Carson had all day to throw back then and now they are starting two undrafted free agents.

Not one of Cook, Livings, or Roland would have cracked the starting lineup in 2005 or 2006, so they've downgraded 3/5 of the line since then. I don't think Carson feels safe, and I don't think he feels like he has time to throw, and combine that with the Bengals repeated assertion that they are going to be run focused and I think you have your explanation for why things are the way they are right now.

They really need Andre Smith to start playing 60 minutes at the level he played at when he was at Alabama, that would go a long way towards fixing the offense.

[Redhook]

The reason I'm so frustrated is because I see the talent level on this team. If this offense can click like the 2005 offense, we COULD beat the Pats and Colts and Saints. And part of the reason they're not clicking is because of their own stupidity.

Ditto.

[dsmith421]

Agree with cincrazy on the pre-snap penalties. Are they #1 in the NFL right now for pre-snap penalties? They've gotta be in the running.

I remember the last year of the LeBeau era when the Bengals opened at home against San Diego. They gave up a FG on the first possession and came out after the kickoff return and immediately committed a delay of game penalty. On the first offensive snap of the season.

The only thing worse was that Jets game two years ago where Marvin managed to call a timeout at halftime and after the game was over. That will never be topped.

[cincrazy]

Brat was the coordinator for pretty good offenses in 2005 and 2006. What's changed? To me it all goes back to the line, I think Carson had all day to throw back then and now they are starting two undrafted free agents.

Not one of Cook, Livings, or Roland would have cracked the starting lineup in 2005 or 2006, so they've downgraded 3/5 of the line since then. I don't think Carson feels safe, and I don't think he feels like he has time to throw, and combine that with the Bengals repeated assertion that they are going to be run focused and I think you have your explanation for why things are the way they are right now.

They really need Andre Smith to start playing 60 minutes at the level he played at when he was at Alabama, that would go a long way towards fixing the offense.

I think a lot of these problems started to surface in 2006, I would isolate 2005 from the rest of the years. 2005 was a good year, yes, but every other year other than that has been frustrating for one reason or another. That 2005 team had a great line, and I think Rich Braham was a big part of that. He was Carson's security blanket in a way, and ever since Braham retired, Carson hasn't been the same.

Also, don't overlook how key Chris Perry was on 3rd downs for that 2005 team. The guy was great coming out of the backfield and catching the ball. Bernard Scott could potentially be that guy for this club, but I don't think Carson has the same level of trust in him yet. Brian Leonard is another guy that could fill that role, but hasn't been on the field all that much.

Brat isn't the SOLE reason for this offense's decline, in no way am I insinuating that. But he's certainly a big factor, and the guy should've been served his walking papers some time ago. The disaorganization and embarrassing penalties rest at his door at the end of the day.

[GIDP]

Running it for 3 yards and doing a screen pass.

[WMR]

Can someone explain why Brat seems intent on running Ced to the outside??? NEWSFLASH BRATKOWSKI: BENSON IS BEST RUNNING BETWEEN THE TACKLES.

His strength isn't his speed, it's his power. He is not a sideline to sideline type RB so why are you trying to make him one?

[Redsfan320]

Can someone explain why Brat seems intent on running Ced to the outside??? NEWSFLASH BRATKOWSKI: BENSON IS BEST RUNNING BETWEEN THE TACKLES.

Amen to that.

320

[TeamSelig]

I noticed that too, WMR. How about last year when Benson went down and Scott filled in for him. They would run Scott up the middle, plays obviously designed for Benson's strengths, etc.

As for Brat being around when the Bengals had that deadly offensive game... I can't remember, but didn't Palmer call the plays? I could be wrong, but for some reason I remember that.

[Hoosier Red]

Can someone explain why Brat seems intent on running Ced to the outside??? NEWSFLASH BRATKOWSKI: BENSON IS BEST RUNNING BETWEEN THE TACKLES.

His strength isn't his speed, it's his power. He is not a sideline to sideline type RB so why are you trying to make him one?

I understand the idea that outside the tackles would appear to be more in line with a "power" runner, but Benson's power can be utilized pretty well when he has to run over smaller people and can sometimes be neutralized when he has to run inside.(I don't care how powerful you are, Ray Lewis is more powerful.)

That said, does anyone have the numbers for Benson and Scott on plays between the tackles and outside the tackles?

Edgerrin James wasn't particularly fast but the Colts used that stretch running play for a lot of "ho hum four yards and a cloud of astro turf."

[Yachtzee]

Additionally, with the end of the salary cap after this season, you have to wonder if the Bengals are going to dedicate the resources to compete for a Super Bowl. SoP's history of frugality suggests this is the last chance in a long time for the Bengals to accomplish something.

Assuming they play football without a salary cap. Lockout anyone?

[Redsfaithful]

They are playing this season without a cap and the Bengals were pretty aggressive in free agency. Football is different enough that I don't think the Bengals would suffer because of money spent, assuming they don't spend like the Pittsburgh Pirates or something. Free agency just isn't that important.

[Cedric]

I understand the idea that outside the tackles would appear to be more in line with a "power" runner, but Benson's power can be utilized pretty well when he has to run over smaller people and can sometimes be neutralized when he has to run inside.(I don't care how powerful you are, Ray Lewis is more powerful.)

That said, does anyone have the numbers for Benson and Scott on plays between the tackles and outside the tackles?

Edgerrin James wasn't particularly fast but the Colts used that stretch running play for a lot of "ho hum four yards and a cloud of astro turf."

Benson breaks a ton of runs to the outside on his own. It would be almost impossible to figure out where each play was designed to be ran.

[Oxilon]

They are playing this season without a cap and the Bengals were pretty aggressive in free agency. Football is different enough that I don't think the Bengals would suffer because of money spent, assuming they don't spend like the Pittsburgh Pirates or something. Free agency just isn't that important.

Bengals are 5th from last in NFL team salary caps this season.



Bengals: $100.8 million.

Cardinals: $97.8 million.

Jaguars: $89.5 million.

Chiefs: $84.5 million.

Buccaneers: $80.8 million.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/19/team-by-team-salary-cap-numbers-if-there-were-a-salary-cap/

The entire bargaining agreement could make or break the Bengals. If guaranteed contracts become enforced, you can pretty much entrench the Bengals into the cellar once again. No way Mike Brown would cut bait on a massive contract. It's sad, but the NFL could become just like MLB. And with Mike Brown running the show, I wouldn't feel very confident.

[Sea Ray]

Bengals are 5th from last in NFL team salary caps this season.



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/19/team-by-team-salary-cap-numbers-if-there-were-a-salary-cap/

The entire bargaining agreement could make or break the Bengals. If guaranteed contracts become enforced, you can pretty much entrench the Bengals into the cellar once again. No way Mike Brown would cut bait on a massive contract. It's sad, but the NFL could become just like MLB. And with Mike Brown running the show, I wouldn't feel very confident.

Depends on how they figure it. Does that cap number include the hit they took for cutting Antonio Bryant?

They will not play football next year without a salary cap and a floor. That's what this whole disagreement is over. What percentage of revenues will the cap be based on. I think the owners want 50%; the players 60%.

In the end the owners will win this thing. They hold the cards. The players' careers are too short to be able to stomach a long work stoppage

[Oxilon]

Depends on how they figure it. Does that cap number include the hit they took for cutting Antonio Bryant?

They will not play football next year without a salary cap and a floor. That's what this whole disagreement is over. What percentage of revenues will the cap be based on. I think the owners want 50%; the players 60%.

In the end the owners will win this thing. They hold the cards. The players' careers are too short to be able to stomach a long work stoppage

I must admit, I really haven't been following the CBA agreement all that much and really don't know the issues. I know rookie slotting is a issue and a salary cap too. But is guaranteed contracts an issue? If the players are fighting for guaranteed contracts and owners are holding out, than I can only assume there will be no football next season.

[Redhook]

No way Mike Brown would cut bait on a massive contract. It's sad, but the NFL could become just like MLB. And with Mike Brown running the show, I wouldn't feel very confident.

He can't live forever can he?

I would love if we could somehow see Paul Brown and listen to what he thinks of his jack**s son. I bet he's rolling over in his grave.

[Sea Ray]

I must admit, I really haven't been following the CBA agreement all that much and really don't know the issues. I know rookie slotting is a issue and a salary cap too. But is guaranteed contracts an issue? If the players are fighting for guaranteed contracts and owners are holding out, than I can only assume there will be no football next season.

I don't claim to be an expert on it either but I don't think guaranteed contracts are a big part of this. Whether a contract is guaranteed or not is not generally part of the CBA but is between player and team.

There may be a work stoppage but it won't last long. And even in the best scenario I can imagine, this thing goes down to the last minute with the threat of a strike. No way this thing gets settled before "midnight"

[Redsfaithful]

I think most of the issue centers around how the money is split up and the owners also want to give less money to draft picks.

I don't know anything about the salary cap numbers this year, I guess if the Bengals are 5th from last that's bad, but they filled every hole I thought they had going into the year outside of the offensive line.

I do agree if contracts were guaranteed the Bengals would be 3-13 forever, but the chance of that happening is zero.

[Oxilon]

I do agree if contracts were guaranteed the Bengals would be 3-13 forever, but the chance of that happening is zero.

Why is that? NHL, MLB, and NBA all have guaranteed contracts. I would think the NFL Players Association would be pressing hard for this.

[Redsfan320]

Excuse my ignorance but what does "guaranteed contract" mean?

320

[Sea Ray]

Excuse my ignorance but what does "guaranteed contract" mean?

320

It means you're guaranteed to receive all the money, regardless of performance or injuries. In the NFL you could cut a guy like Carlos Zambrano after this year and not have to pay him the outrageous money he's due next year and beyond

[Redsfaithful]

Why is that? NHL, MLB, and NBA all have guaranteed contracts. I would think the NFL Players Association would be pressing hard for this.

NFL Union is the weakest in sports and history says they will probably buckle in a strike situation. And it would take an extended strike for them to win something like guaranteed contracts.

[Redsfan320]

It means you're guaranteed to receive all the money, regardless of performance or injuries.

And in, say, MLB, you're not?

320

[Sea Ray]

And in, say, MLB, you're not?

320

In MLB you are guaranteed everything. In the NFL you are not

[Redsfan320]

Okay, I see now.

320