10/1- Reds vs. Brewers

[Redsfan320]

Stubbs 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Bruce 9
Gomes 7
Hernandez 2
Janish 6
Wood 1

I'll be at this one! Go REDS!!!

320

[Brutus]

Stubbs 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Bruce 9
Gomes 7
Hernandez 2
Janish 6
Wood 1

I'll be at this one! Go REDS!!!

320

I kind of thought Dusty was going to give Rolen one more day off, but this is cool. I have been enjoying Stubbs at the top. I hope when Cabrera is back in there he keeps doing it to keep the pressure of Phillips the rest of the year, but regardless let's just hope they keep hitting going into next week.

[Chip R]

Weeks starts out by grounding to 2nd. 1 out.

[Chip R]

Hart grounds out to 3rd 2 outs.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 1st:

Weeks grounds out to Phillips.
Hart grounds out to Rolen.
Braun Ks looking.

No score after one half inning.

Wood at 15 pitches, 11 strikes.

[Chip R]

Ryan (Lloyd) Braun gives the Reds Serenity Now by striking out.

[Chip R]

Stubbs walks and steals 2nd

[VR]

Stubbs walks and steals 2nd

Uno Mas for 30.

Well under where I'd like him (50-60)......but very impressive alongside those power #'s.

[Chip R]

Brandon grounds to 2nd and stubbs advances to 3rd. 1 out.

[Chip R]

Votto with a SF to RF Reds up 1-0. 2 outs.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 1st:

Stubbs walks, then steals second.
Phillips bounces to second, Stubbs moves to third.
Votto lines out to Hart in right, Stubbs tags and scores.
Rolen grounds out to third.

After 1 inning, Reds 1, Brewers 0.

Mark Rogers at 21 pitches, 10 srikes.

[Chip R]

Rolen grounds to 3rd. End of 1 Reds 1 Brewers 0.

[Chip R]

Fielder flies to CF 1 out. McGhee lines to Votto 2 outs.

[Chip R]

Cain Ks. Still 1-0 Reds.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 2nd:

Fielder flies out to Stubbs.
McGehee lines out to Votto.
Cain Ks swinging.

Travis Wood at 28 pitches, 20 strikes.

After one and a half innings, Reds 1, Brewers 0.

[Chip R]

Reds go in order.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 2nd:

Bruce Ks swinging.
Gomes Ks looking.
Hernandez pops out to short.

Rogers at 33 pitches, 17 strikes.

Reds 1, Brewers 0 after two innings.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 3rd inning:

Escobar Ks looking.
Lucroy lines a hard one right at Gomes.
Rogers Ks swinging.

Wood at 44 pitches, 30 strikes.

After two and a half innings, Reds 1, Brewers 0.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 3rd:

Janish grounds out to third.
Wood Ks swinging.
Stubbs Ks swinging.

Rogers at 43 pitches, 25 strikes.

Reds 1, Brewers 0 after three innings.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 4th inning:

Weeks nailed in the leg by Wood.
Hart lines a hard one to Bruce in right.
Rolen snags a one hopper and nails Braun, Weeks to third.
Fielder walks.
McGehee grounds to Rolen, 5-4.

Wood at 61 pitches, 39 strikes.

After three and a half innings, Reds 1, Brewers 0.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 4th:

Phillips flies to the warning track in left.
Votto flies to the warning track in center.
Rolen flies to fairly deep left.

Rogers at 51 pitches, 31 strikes.

Reds 1, Brewers 0 after four innings.

[Chip R]

Rolen out of the game. Francisco in.

[reds44]

0 hits in this game.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 5th inning:

Cain flies out to Stubbs.
Luis Cruz (for Escobar) pops out to Juan Francisco (in for Rolen)at third.
Lucroy Ks swinging.

Wood at 73 pitches, 46 strikes.

After four and a half innings, Reds 1, Brewers 0.

[CrackerJack]

0 hits in this game.

So bizarre, thought that was some sort of error on Gameday.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomes picks up the Reds first hit.

[Reds Fanatic]

Then Gomes steals 2nd.

[reds44]

Braves up 1-0 on the Phils.

[Brutus]

Was the Rolen thing just a rest thing? Or did he have some small injury issue?

[Reds Fanatic]

Hernandez singles. 1st and 3rd.

[mbgrayson]

Was the Rolen thing just a rest thing? Or did he have some small injury issue?

Pregame with Marty, Dusty said Rolen would play five. He came out after four, after jumping to grab a throw. But, he is on the bench w/o a trainer. We shall see.

[Reds Fanatic]

Janish with a sacrifice squeeze play. 2-0 Reds.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 5th:

Bruce Ks swinging.
Gomes singles on a grounder up the middle, then steals second.
Ramon bounces an infield hit to short, Gomes to third.
Janish puts down a perfect suicide squeeze bunt, Gomes scores.
Wood Ks swinging.

Rogers at 74 pitches, 43 strikes.

Reds 2, Brewers 0 after five innings.

[Brutus]

Pregame with Marty, Dusty said Rolen would play five. He came out after four, after jumping to grab a throw. But, he is on the bench w/ a trainer. We shall see.

Thanks. It wouldn't sound like something to worry about if not for the trainer thing. Hopefully it's only minor. He does have near a week to get rested.

[mbgrayson]

Thanks. It wouldn't sound like something to worry about if not for the trainer thing. Hopefully it's only minor. He does have near a week to get rested.

My bad, I meant w/o a trainer....he looks fine.

[Reds Fanatic]

Now 6 Ks for Wood.

[Brutus]

My bad, I meant w/o a trainer....he looks fine.

Oh, good news. Then that was probably just Dusty figuring he would pull the trigger an inning earlier since Rolen had just got his second AB.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[Brutus]

Well so much for the no-no.

[Reds Fanatic]

Weeks homers to center. 2-1 Reds. 1st hit tonight for the Brewers.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillies are now tied with the Braves 1-1 and still have 2 runners on in the top of the 4th.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 6th:

Dickerson (for Rogers) Ks swinging.
Weeks HRs to dead center. (Say bye to the no-no and the shutout)
Hart flies to Stubbs in shallow center.
Braun grounds out to Janish.

After five and a half innings, Reds 2, Brewers 1.

Wood at 89 pitches, 57 strikes.

[Gallen5862]

Thanks for the PBP MBgrayson.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillies now up 2-1 on the Braves in the 4th.

[CTA513]

It doesn't even look like Stubbs is running that fast and he ends up having a stand up triple.

[Brutus]

I heart Stubbs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Sac fly to right by Phillips. 3-1 Reds.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 6th:

Jeffress on to pitch for the Crew.
Stubbs lines a triple to the wall in left-center.
Phillips flies to the track in right, Stubbs tags and scores.
Votto Ks swinging.
Francisco (in for Rolen) bounces an infield single up the middle.
Bruce Ks looking.

After 6 innings, Reds 3, Brewers 1.

[Reds Fanatic]

McGehee with a one out double to center. Wood now at 100 pitches.

[RedsManRick]

Gomes pulls up just in time to let it drop. And that's why errors/fielding percentage are useless.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cain singles to right. 1st and 3rd with 1 out.

[RedsManRick]

Bruce shows Jonny how to hit the cut off man.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ondrusek in to pitch.

[Reds Fanatic]

Counsell pinch hits and singles in a run. 3-2 Reds. 1st and 3rd.

[Red in Chicago]

Gomes pulls up just in time to let it drop. And that's why errors/fielding percentage are useless.

and earlier in the game, chris was talking about how jonny isn't that bad in the outfield;)

[Reds Fanatic]

LuCroy sac fly to left. Tie game 3-3.

[RedsManRick]

Has nobody ever taught Gomes how to position himself for a throw home on a pop fly?

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 7th:

Fileder pops out to Gomes in shallow left.
McGehee hits one into the gap that Gomes can't quite get to, Stubbs throw to second is to the right, double.
Cain lines a single to right, Bruce charges and holds McGehee at third. Dusty has seen enough.Travis Wood is done at 103 pitches, 67 strikes.

Logan Ondrusek in to pitch.
Counsell (for Cruz) singles through the right side hole, Cain to third.
Lucroy hits a sac fly to left, Cain scores. Tie game.
Inglett (for Jeffress) flies to Gomes.

After six and a half innings, Reds 3, Brewers 3.

[Reds Fanatic]

Inning is finally over. 3-3 mid 7th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Coffey in to pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomes strikes out swinging on 3 pitches.

[WVRedsFan]

Sometimes, Gomes is so minor league. Like this at-bat. Goodness!

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillies and Braves now tied 2-2 in the bottom of the 5th and the Braves still have a few runners on base.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hernandez walks.

[WVRedsFan]

Talk about minor league!!!!

[Reds Fanatic]

Janish lines into a double play 3-3 after 7.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 7th:

Todd Coffey in to pitch.
Gomes Ks swinging on 3 bad pitches.
Ramon walks. (Yeah patience!)
Janish lines back to Coffey, who gets Ramon at 1st. 1-3 doubleplay.

After seven innings, Reds 3, Brewers 3.

9 pitch inning there. ....

Nix was on deck....

[oneupper]

Sometimes, Gomes is so minor league. Like this at-bat. Goodness!

The more I see of Gomes, the more I would like to see less of him in the future.

[mbgrayson]

The more I see of Gomes, the more I would like to see less of him in the future.

Agreed. He is a weak link.

[alloverjr]

Not to pile on, but it's too bad Nix has been hurt and probably won't be at 100% for the playoffs. Any advantage that might be gained with Gomes on offense is more than negated by his inability to play the field at an acceptable level, at least IMO.

[Reds Fanatic]

Masset in to pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

Weeks grounds out back to Masset.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hart strikes out swinging.

[Reds Fanatic]

Braun walks.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rhodes coming in to pitch.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 8th:

Nick Masset in to pitch.
Weeks grounds back to Masset.
Hart Ks swinging.
Braun walks.
Dusty to the mound, Masset is done.

Arthur Rhodes in to pitch.
Fielder Ks swinging.

After seven and a half innings, Reds 3, Brewers 3.

[Reds Fanatic]

Fielder strikes out swinging. 3-3 mid 8th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillies now up 3-2 on the Braves in the top 6th and they still have the bases loaded with 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Kameron Loe in to pitch and Nix hitting for Rhodes.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rollins just hit a grand slam. Phillies up 7-2 on the Braves in the 6th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Nix strikes out looking.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stubbs grounds out to short. 2 outs.

[WVRedsFan]

Nix forgot he was a pich HITTER.

Cardinal sin for a pinch hitter to take the 3rd strike.

Offense just so quiet after last night's outburst.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips singles to left.

[edabbs44]

Gomes pulls up just in time to let it drop. And that's why errors/fielding percentage are useless.


Did anyone else catch the stink eye that Gomes gave Stubbs after that play, and then the camera also showed Stubbs looking a bit sheepish? I wonder if there was a miscommunication out there.

Which is also why we cannot assume that we know the whole story on plays like that. If Stubbs opened his mouth and made Gomes pull up, that's a different story.

But I do agree with your other point, no excuse for catching the sac fly flat footed.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto lines a hit to left center. 1st and 3rd.

[WVRedsFan]

Francisco and Alonso just wail away. Why was Rolen taken out? I got here late.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 8th:

Kameron Loe in to pitch.
Nix (for Rhodes) Ks looking.
Stubbs grounds to Counsell at short.
Phillips grounds a single into left.
Votto lines the 1st pitch into left-center for a single, Phillips to 3rd.
Francisco Ks swinging.

After eight innings, Reds 3, Brewers 3.

[Reds Fanatic]

Francisco and Alonso just wail away. Why was Rolen taken out? I got here late.

I think someone said before the game Dusty had said he was only going to play 4 or 5 innings.

Francisco strikes out swinging.

[mbgrayson]

Francisco and Alonso just wail away. Why was Rolen taken out? I got here late.

Dusty said he would only play five before the game. Then he got pulled after jumping to catch a throw from Votto after 4.

[OesterPoster]

Francisco has the same approach every at bat. Swing for the fences on the first pitch, even if it's in the dirt.

Why would anyone ever throw the guy a fastball? He can't hit breaking stuff.

[Reds Fanatic]

Chapman in to pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

McGehee grounds out to 3rd. Nice stop by Francisco.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cain just fell over trying to swing at that pitch.

[edabbs44]

Cain just fell over trying to swing at that pitch.

He wasn't able?

[TheNext44]

Cain just fell over trying to swing at that pitch.

That should be on the highlight reel. That was funny. :laugh:

[Reds Fanatic]

Nasty. Cain strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[WVRedsFan]

Francisco has the same approach every at bat. Swing for the fences on the first pitch, even if it's in the dirt.

Why would anyone ever throw the guy a fastball? He can't hit breaking stuff.He and Alonso have a long way to go. Swing for the fences and hope. Not going to work.

[Reds Fanatic]

Counsell strikes out swinging. 3-3 mid 9th.

[WVRedsFan]

Chapman shakes off the catcher and throws the slider for a ball, but gets Counsel with a fastball. Impressive.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 9th:

Chapman in to pitch.
McGehee tags one down the third baseline, Francisco picks and nails him.
Cain Ks swinging.
Counsell Ks swinging.

After eight and a half innings, Reds 3, Brewers 3.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce, Gomes and Hernandez due up in the 9th.

[BCubb2003]

Does a catcher ever shake off a pitcher?

[reds44]

This looks familar.

[WVRedsFan]

Bruce struggling tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce strikes out for the 4th time tonight.

[Gallen5862]

Lets go Reds.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomes strikes out swinging.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hernadez grounds out to short. On to the 10th.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 9th:

Bruce Ks swinging (Golden Sombrero).
Gomes Ks swinging (third time tonight).
Ramon grounds to short.

After nine innings, Reds 3, Brewers 3.
Free baseball!

[Reds Fanatic]

Cordero in for the 10th.

[mbgrayson]

Cordero in for the 10th.

Strap yourselves in folks...

[Reds Fanatic]

LuCroy grounds out to short. Nice play by Janish.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomez flies out to center on the first pitch.

[Reds Fanatic]

Weeks flies out to left. 6 pitch inning. 3-3 mid 10th.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 10th:

Cordero in to pitch.
Lucroy grounds out to Janish.
Gomez (for Loe) flies out to shallow center.
Weeks flies out to Gomes.

After nine and a half innings, Reds 3, Brewers 3.

Coco lookin good tonight... pitching to contact. BABIP coming around.

[TheNext44]

This might be nothing, but I always thought that most managers pitch their closer (or best reliever) in the 9th inning of a tie game at home. Basically you start with you best then go to your next best, etc.

Twice now, in that situation, Dusty went Chapman and then Cordero. Maybe it's nothing, but it might signal who Dusty trusts more.

[Reds Fanatic]

Mike McClendon in to pitch.

[Reds Fanatic]

Janish strikes out swinging. Reds have now struck out 14 times tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey pinch hitting

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey pops out to short.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 10th:

McClendon in to pitch.
Janish Ks swinging.
Heisey (for Cordero) pops out to Counsell.
Stubbs Ks looking.

After ten innings, Reds 3, Brewers 3.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wow. Stubbs strikes out looking. That pitch looked outside.

[mbgrayson]

Wow. Stubbs strikes out looking. That pitch looked outside.

Gameday shows it in the black.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers pitchers have struck out 15 Reds tonight. Ouch....

[Reds Fanatic]

LeCure in to pitch.

Hart with a leadoff single.

[Reds Fanatic]

Braun walks. 1st and 2nd.

[Brutus]

Hello Philly.

[WVRedsFan]

This has disaster written all over it.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bray in to pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

Fielder flies out to left. Runner to 3rd. 1st and 3rd with 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Jordan Smith coming in to pitch

[oregonred]

Hart easily walks into third with noodle arm Gomes manning LF.

[WVRedsFan]

All it takes is a fly ball and with the way the Reds bats are sleeping, that's the death sentence playing Philly brings. Still happy, but just have to wonder why we haven't done some things differently, given the circumstances.

[WVRedsFan]

That's jsut sick. Philly here we come.

[oregonred]

ump got in the way

[Reds Fanatic]

Error on Phillips. 4-3 Brewers.

[HokieRed]

Was it a double play ball?

[oregonred]

Really if Baker plays Gomes in a tie or with any Reds postseason lead from the 7th inning on he should be publicly scolded on Fountain Square.

Yes, it was a tailor made DP ball for BP & Janish. Not an easy play but hit hard up the middle.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillies continue to pound the Braves up 11-2 in the 8th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cain strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[oregonred]

Safe to say Lecure likely pitched himself off any consideration for the NLDS roster tonight.

[HokieRed]

Safe to say Lecure likely pitched himself off any consideration for the NLDS roster tonight.

Pretty safe bet.

[Reds Fanatic]

Counsell grounds out to the catcher. 4-3 Brewers mid 11th.

[mbgrayson]

Brewers 11th:

LeCure in to pitch.
Hart lines the 1st pitch for a single into left.
Braun walks.
Dusty has seen enough, LeCure is done.

Billy Bray in to pitch.
Fielder hits a sac fly to the track in left, Hart to 3rd.

Jordan Smith in to pitch.
McGehee grounds to Phillips, who boots the ball, run scores, runners at 1st and 2nd.
Cain Ks swinging.
Counsell bounces a dribbler that Ramon guns to 1st.

After ten and a half innings, Reds 3, Brewers 4.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips, Votto and Francisco due up.

[mbgrayson]

Can they do it again?

[oregonred]

Janish at SS next year and use the $$$ to go find a LF bat, another reliever and/or lockup Bruce/Votto for a couple of post-FA years.

[Reds Fanatic]

John Axford in to pitch

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips flies out to right. 1 out.

[oregonred]

BP lazy flyball to RF. 1-down

Vottomatic time

[TheNext44]

Safe to say Lecure likely pitched himself off any consideration for the NLDS roster tonight.

I disagree. I don't think he ever was in consideration for the post season roster. At least I hope not. I like Sam, but he's not an arm you want to use in a playoff game.

[Reds Fanatic]

Update on the game in SF. Both teams had chances in the first and did not score.

Padres had a runner thrown out at the plate to end top of the first and the Giants stranded 2 runners in bottom of 1st.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[oregonred]

a lot of frustrating September games like this one means the team travels for Games 1 & 2. What a throwaway with a start like Wood had tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Francisco just missed. He doubles high off the wall in left center.

[oregonred]

I disagree. I don't think he ever was in consideration for the post season roster. At least I hope not. I like Sam, but he's not an arm you want to use in a playoff game.

yep, he'd be a mop-up only arm only in case either game 1 or game 2 becomes a shallacking.

Francisco just missed an HR. Double.

[TheNext44]

Francisco, a slice of bacon away from tying the game.

[Reds Fanatic]

Blomquist running for Francisco.

[Reds Fanatic]

1-0 Padres in the 2nd on a Ludwick homer.

[Brutus]

Wisely, Brewers are walking Bruce.

[oregonred]

Francisco, a slice of bacon away from tying the game.

maybe a slice of deep dish pizza.

Intentional walk to Bruce. Gomes time.

[HokieRed]

Chance for Gomes to redeem himself.

[WVRedsFan]

Wisely, Brewers are walking Bruce.With how many strikeouts? I'd have pitched to him.

[oregonred]

Seems odd to walk the winning run, but that shows you how little they think of Gomes-ey

[oregonred]

Predicable pitch one. Flails at a breaking ball a foot outside... Geescchhh

[reds44]

I know this has gotten swept under the rug lately, but Gomes is really bad.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 11th:

Axford in to pitch for the Crew.
Phillips flies out to Hart in fairly deep right.
Votto Ks swinging....need him to get on track.
Francisco doubles off the left-center wall. (Bloomquist in to pinch run)
Bruce walked intentionally.
Gomes Ks (Golden Sombrero).

Final score: Brewers 4, Reds 3.

[oregonred]

And takes pitch 2 down broadway. And strike 3 on a breaking ball. Can't spell G-O-A-T with G-O...mes

[WVRedsFan]

That was predictable. God, can we just ship Gomes anywhere for anything even if it's nothing?

[reds44]

With how many strikeouts? I'd have pitched to him.
With Gomes on deck? Never.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gomes strikes out swinging. So the Reds will officially be the 3rd seed in the NL playoffs. That means they will start on the road. First home game will be game 3 on Sunday.

[alloverjr]

Very fitting. I love watching him flail like that.

[HokieRed]

Got to find some other answer in LF next year.

[oregonred]

Dusty's loyalty to Gomes and CoCo is going to cost this team a playoff game. Gomes should never be on the field from the 7th inning on in a tie or better game.

[Brutus]

I know this has gotten swept under the rug lately, but Gomes is really bad.

.761 OPS for the season. For his position and including his defense, yea he's not valuable.

But .760 OPS is not "really bad."

[WVRedsFan]

Fitting way to end the quest to avoid the dreaded Phillies. The no-name lineup on Tuesday and the massive fail tonight which included "resting" Rolen and pitching LeCure. Guess I should be happy with the division title, but I really would have liked to not play Philly in the first round.

[reds44]

.761 OPS for the season. For his position and including his defense, yea he's not valuable.

But .760 OPS is not "really bad."
Take out May and you get really bad.

[oregonred]

Got to find some other answer in LF next year.

Heisey/Nix is fine by me. But I'd stick Janish at SS and go find a LF bat as priority #1 in the offseason. Gomes is ok as a $1M part time option, but he should never get more than 250 selected ABs over the course of any season.

Thank Jonny for a big May, but Heisey/Nix + Edmonds in the postseason for the dough.

[Brutus]

Take out May and you get really bad.

Didn't you say, when discussing Volquez, that's cherry picking?

Besides... over the course of two seasons, his Reds' OPS is over .800. That means a lot more than you wanting to remove one month of his past 900 plate appearances.

[mbgrayson]

.761 OPS for the season. For his position and including his defense, yea he's not valuable.

But .760 OPS is not "really bad."

May it was 1.056. Otherwise, way below average. But, May does count....

[HokieRed]

I'm still hoping Edmonds can be talked into coming back.

[oregonred]

With the financial windfall from getting an extra postseason game, can't believe the memo wasn't served to go for the #2 seed.

I assume it was worth an extra 3M+ to get games 1,2 and 5 (at least two guaranteed first round games).

[oregonred]

Gomes glove cost the Reds a valuable win tonight. His terrible last 3 AB's were just proof points.

[mbgrayson]

Tonight's attendance: 28,884.

[mbgrayson]

One other thought, in the category of 20-20 hindsight...

Shouldn't Dusty have pulled Wood after six innings? He was at 89 pitches, had a two run lead, and needed to go out on a good note. Let the bullpen do three.

[reds44]

Didn't you say, when discussing Volquez, that's cherry picking?

Besides... over the course of two seasons, his Reds' OPS is over .800. That means a lot more than you wanting to remove one month of his past 900 plate appearances.
You took out a half season of a guy's production who doesn't have a long history in the majors. It's a little different.

Gomes is what he is. A guy who doesn't belong in the field and shouldn't see any ABs against right handed pitchers. Debating the level of his badness is pointless.

[oregonred]

One other thought, in the category of 20-20 hindsight...

Shouldn't Dusty have pulled Wood after six innings? He was at 89 pitches, had a two run lead, and needed to go out on a good note. Let the bullpen do three.

Wood would have coasted through the 7th minus gomes bonehead misplay with one out. That was out #2 and he really had already gotten Fielder out twice on another bloop that fell just foul between Francisco and Gomes

[Brutus]

May it was 1.056. Otherwise, way below average. But, May does count....

Not only does it count, but he has a .790 career OPS in 2,300 plate appearances.

So taking away May seems to be going the opposite direction of what Gomes' true hitting talent is.

I must need my barometer re-calibrated. Last I checked, .790 career hitters were not really bad. Positionally, it's about average for LF. Throw in defense, I'll agree with anyone that says Gomes isn't worth running out there everyday.

But the spoliation of Gomes around here has become legendary.

[Brutus]

You took out a half season of a guy's production who doesn't have a long history in the majors. It's a little different.

Gomes is what he is. A guy who doesn't belong in the field and shouldn't see any ABs against right handed pitchers. Debating the level of his badness is pointless.

Actually, I pointed out that he was average in 6 of the 8 months pitching for the Reds prior to his injury. For you to say he was dominant before the injury, when that really only holds true for 2 of the 8 months, is cherry-picking, or at very least inaccurate.

[WVRedsFan]

The culprits:

Logan O - came in and allowed a hit and a SF with runners on, allowing Milwaukee to catch up. The runner at third is understandable, but allowing the hit was not.

Sam LeCure - seems to me that bringing him into pitch in this situation was not a good idea. He comes in and immediately allows a hit and a walk. Two examples of a failure by the bullpen.

Dusty Baker - followed up his collossal failure of playing a AAA lineup on Tuesday by taking Rolen out of the lineup.

One more thing. I respect all your opinions, but he Janish love just drives me nuts. He's a non-hitter and his glove cannot make up for his lack of hitting. After an early season hot streak (somewhat like Gomes), his hitting statistics have dropped like a rock. Over his last ten games, he's back to normal, going 4-22 (.182). Guys, we need to find a shortstop, and I have no problem with Cabrera coming back.

[reds44]

Phillips needs a mention on that list for show boating his way out of a double play. Stay on your feet, son.

[oregonred]

This team played some of its best ball of the year with Janish manning SS for a month.

[edabbs44]

Gomes! Dusty! Come out here and show yourselves!

http://www.sharkfighter.com/torches-and-pitchforks-simpson.jpg

[Brutus]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-rlO17Np8KDQPu8zm1NBgSOckdmFWl7EMCtpmozXqswZjiPc&t=1&usg=__m-ql9gvsRxjIGnoiZ6vrPrbHL4Q=

[VR]

Not only does it count, but he has a .790 career OPS in 2,300 plate appearances.

So taking away May seems to be going the opposite direction of what Gomes' true hitting talent is.

I must need my barometer re-calibrated. Last I checked, .790 career hitters were not really bad. Positionally, it's about average for LF. Throw in defense, I'll agree with anyone that says Gomes isn't worth running out there everyday.

But the spoliation of Gomes around here has become legendary.

He's got 5 months of .700 OpS going for him, while batting 4th or 5th....and a bottom of the barrel glove and arm to boot. It's not all his fault, please realize that. He's not holding a gun to Dusty's head every night to pencil him in the lineup. (I'm not 100% certain on that, so don't quote me)

The really bad news? Playoffs get kicked up several notches with scouting reports. Gomes will not see a ball on the inside half of the plate after Sunday.

[Brutus]

He's got 5 months of .700 OpS going for him, while batting 4th or 5th....and a bottom of the barrel glove and arm to boot. It's not all his fault, please realize that. He's not holding a gun to Dusty's head every night to pencil him in the lineup. (I'm not 100% certain on that, so don't quote me)

The really bad news? Playoffs get kicked up several notches with scouting reports. Gomes will not see a ball on the inside half of the plate after Sunday.

The scouting reports are already tremendously detailed. They don't change in the playoffs. Teams have pages upon pages of every player already. That's a non-sequitur.

As I said, the defense and everything thrown in, I'm not arguing he should or shouldn't be starting. I think, big picture, he is not doing enough to justify starting. But he has a .790 career OPS in 2,300 plate appearances. Attacking his talent as a hitter is mostly hyperbole.

[Tony Cloninger]

Sam had not pitched in a while. I will give him some slack for that beacuse he had been pretty good up until then.

The thing is...with the exception of Philly......all these teams that have clinched are playing like they could care less. Like they got tighter or something. T=The Rays and the twins...if i were fans of those teams I would be wondering why there is no urgency to have the best record. It;s a joke the way the Rays hit sometimes. I mean they are really bad at the art of hitting. Bruce Chen throws a CG shout out against you?
The Twins ...for all their fell good/small market team stuff....they tick me off beacuse they always seem to face the yanks and they always find a way to lose games either with Nathan forgetting how to pitch or too scared to pitch and the rest of them act like a bunch of AAA players. They seem satisfied just to get there.

[VR]

The scouting reports are already tremendously detailed. They don't change in the playoffs. Teams have pages upon pages of every player already. That's a non-sequitur.

As I said, the defense and everything thrown in, I'm not arguing he should or shouldn't be starting. I think, big picture, he is not doing enough to justify starting. But he has a .790 career OPS in 2,300 plate appearances. Attacking his talent as a hitter is mostly hyperbole.


The stands have been packed with scouts, and the broadcast team has focused on it twice so far. It's baseball. During the season you are dealing with minimal manpower to keep tabs on 16 -22 teams and 500+ players. You're not overly concerned if you lose 3 of the next 5 games.

In the playoffs, every opponent is scrutinized, every tendency is examined, every flaw is exposed.



Jonny's plate approach has digressed tremendously since May. He does not used the entire field anymore. He tries to hit every pitch to Manhattan. I'm all for be patient with young hitters, but Gomes is who we thought he was.

He is a lead leader in all the wrong peripherals. Infield pop-up %, infield hits, infield hits as a % of hits, swings out of the zone. And on, and on, and on. His WAR is 0. Zero!

He's a streaky hitter that is a millstone to an offense when he's not on a steak....which is now 4 months ago for the Reds. His lowest OpS last year in any month was .786....as he was mostly platooned, where he should be. His monthly OpS this year are .620, 1.056, .704, .674, .700, and .768. Ugh.

If all those stats don't do it for people, watching with the naked eye backs it all up.

I don't get the .790 red herring? Are you suggesting Ken Griffey Jr. should start in left? He has a .907 career OpS, and therefore must by a good choice.


There are better options for at least 50% of the playing time Jonny is getting, is indefensible at this point.

The fact that he bats 4th, 5th or 6th against righties.....and plays in the field later than the 7th inning is just silly.

[edabbs44]

The stands have been packed with scouts, and the broadcast team has focused on it twice so far. It's baseball. During the season you are dealing with minimal manpower to keep tabs on 16 -22 teams and 500+ players. You're not overly concerned if you lose 3 of the next 5 games.

In the playoffs, every opponent is scrutinized, every tendency is examined, every flaw is exposed.



Jonny's plate approach has digressed tremendously since May. He does not used the entire field anymore. He tries to hit every pitch to Manhattan. I'm all for be patient with young hitters, but Gomes is who we thought he was.

He is a lead leader in all the wrong peripherals. Infield pop-up %, infield hits, infield hits as a % of hits, swings out of the zone. And on, and on, and on. His WAR is 0. Zero!

He's a streaky hitter that is a millstone to an offense when he's not on a steak....which is now 4 months ago for the Reds. His lowest OpS last year in any month was .786....as he was mostly platooned, where he should be. His monthly OpS this year are .620, 1.056, .704, .674, .700, and .768. Ugh.

If all those stats don't do it for people, watching with the naked eye backs it all up.

I don't get the .790 red herring? Are you suggesting Ken Griffey Jr. should start in left? He has a .907 career OpS, and therefore must by a good choice.


There are better options for at least 50% of the playing time Jonny is getting, is indefensible at this point.

The fact that he bats 4th, 5th or 6th against righties.....and plays in the field later than the 7th inning is just silly.

Knowing what we know, what is your solution for the playoffs?

And please don't say Heisey.

[Brutus]

The stands have been packed with scouts, and the broadcast team has focused on it twice so far. It's baseball. During the season you are dealing with minimal manpower to keep tabs on 16 -22 teams and 500+ players. You're not overly concerned if you lose 3 of the next 5 games.

In the playoffs, every opponent is scrutinized, every tendency is examined, every flaw is exposed.



Jonny's plate approach has digressed tremendously since May. He does not used the entire field anymore. He tries to hit every pitch to Manhattan. I'm all for be patient with young hitters, but Gomes is who we thought he was.

He is a lead leader in all the wrong peripherals. Infield pop-up %, infield hits, infield hits as a % of hits, swings out of the zone. And on, and on, and on. His WAR is 0. Zero!

He's a streaky hitter that is a millstone to an offense when he's not on a steak....which is now 4 months ago for the Reds. His lowest OpS last year in any month was .786....as he was mostly platooned, where he should be. His monthly OpS this year are .620, 1.056, .704, .674, .700, and .768. Ugh.

If all those stats don't do it for people, watching with the naked eye backs it all up.

I don't get the .790 red herring? Are you suggesting Ken Griffey Jr. should start in left? He has a .907 career OpS, and therefore must by a good choice.


There are better options for at least 50% of the playing time Jonny is getting, is indefensible at this point.

The fact that he bats 4th, 5th or 6th against righties.....and plays in the field later than the 7th inning is just silly.

Have you ever seen a regular scouting report on a player at that level? Trust me man... there are pages and pages on each player that has been around for any period of time. You really think clubs just dispose of the reports each season and have to start from scratch? Teams have been scouting Jonny Gomes for years. These teams keep archives of the scouting reports.

They have hot/cold data on him for his entire career. They're not going to suddenly find out about something for the postseason they didn't know already. That's not even debatable.

[VR]

Have you ever seen a regular scouting report on a player at that level? Trust me man... there are pages and pages on each player that has been around for any period of time. You really think clubs just dispose of the reports each season and have to start from scratch? Teams have been scouting Jonny Gomes for years. These teams keep archives of the scouting reports.

They have hot/cold data on him for his entire career. They're not going to suddenly find out about something for the postseason they didn't know already. That's not even debatable.

Seriously? Do you think scouts are at games to chew the fat? Spend some time chatting with them sometime, it will change your perspective on baseball forever.

Marge Schott used the theory you espose with her scouting department. Didnt' work out so well.

[Brutus]

Seriously? Do you think scouts are at games to chew the fat? Spend some time chatting with them sometime, it will change your perspective on baseball forever.

Marge Schott used the theory you espose with her scouting department. Didnt' work out so well.

Huh? What on earth are you talking about?

First, I have spoken with scouts. I took a scouting course, actually.

Second, they're there to scout players. How does that detract from the point that they have compiled LARGE scouting reports on Gomes?

[VR]

Huh? What on earth are you talking about?

First, I have spoken with scouts. I took a scouting course, actually.

Second, they're there to scout players. How does that detract from the point that they have compiled LARGE scouting reports on Gomes?

My apologies....I thought you were inferring that teams merely used the pages and pages of historical scouting reports....that real time scouting was irrelevant.



Have you ever seen a regular scouting report on a player at that level? Trust me man... there are pages and pages on each player that has been around for any period of time. You really think clubs just dispose of the reports each season and have to start from scratch? Teams have been scouting Jonny Gomes for years. These teams keep archives of the scouting reports.


If they are there to scout players.....do you not think they'll expose Jonny's weakness even more.....as team's have done the 2nd half of the year? These are scouts on steroids when they know who their playoff opponent is.

They've thrown him 1 strike today....and he's struck out twice.

It's not because their throwing him fastballs middle-in.
The league has adjusted to Jonny Gomes. Jonny Gomes is refusing to re-adjust his approach to prove he can hit any ball on the outer half of the plate. His peripherals are screaming that.