NBA 2010-2011

[Razor Shines]

I know other NBA stuff was being discussed in the Lebron thread but figured we need a just NBA thread. I'm sure this won't get popular for a few months though.


Watched the Pacers and Spurs last night. The Spurs look very healthy, it's a long season but if they can stay healthy they'll be a very good team in the West.

The Pacers looked like the Pacers, I was so disappointed. I think they look good when TJ Ford isn't on the floor, he controls the ball way too much. Collison is the best PG they've had in a long time, I love watching him play. Hibbert looked really good on offense last night. They're young and hopefully this will be a nice year for them to build on, but I'm not sure they get into the playoffs this year as I had previously hoped. We'll see how they look against the Bobcats.

[Buckeye33]

The NBA is very underrated by the average American sports fan. I fully admit that regular season NBA games are not nearly as good as playoff games but that can be said about every sport.

If you have not taken notice of all the young players that the NBA has now you are missing out on some incredible athletes. The NBA regular season allows them to show off that athleticism fully.

If you haven't watched the NBA in the last couple years just sit down and watch a game on TNT or ESPN during the week and you will be surprised I'm guessing. A prime example would be tonight with John Wall making his debut.

[Brutus]

The Cavs won't be going 0-82 and the Heat won't be 82-0. Apparently, the season is already a success.

[Captain Hook]

I think the NBA is fantastic.It's even better this year, now that I have a team that I can hate(Miami).Those guys are probably ok dudes I guess but,I just keep thinking about the Fri. after Lebron announced his intention to sell out errrrr sign with the Heat.ESPN aired live, some kind of welcoming party/introduction for the big three.It was terrible and pretty much made me sick.I knew then that I'd enjoy rooting against those guys just as much as I enjoy seeing the Yankees fail.Watching Boston(and I'm even a Laker fan) beat them down Tues. night was very enjoyable.

[Oxilon]

The NBA is very underrated by the average American sports fan.

I have to disagree with this. I think it's the complete opposite if you ask me. Ever since ESPN bought the rights to the NBA, they have been shoving the NBA down their viewer's throats. Even in the offseason, ESPN puts the NBA on the pedestal over every sport, including baseball (which is in full gear by than). For a sport that comes down to individual talent more so than team talent, and has subjective foul calling at times, I can't think of a more overrated professional sport. If nothing else is on, sure I'll watch it. But I'm just happy the NHL can make up for the dark spot in the calendar year where there's no MLB or college football to watch.

[Boston Red]

My Jazz seem to be undergoing some growing pains with the roster turnover. They'll be fine, though.

[Chip R]

It's probably just posturing since their CBA is up but Stern is talking contraction.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5715816

[Unassisted]

Spurs looked good against the Pacers. As their roster is a bit younger now, they intend to play a more up-tempo offense this year, without giving up their focus on defense. Fans are looking forward to seeing off-season signee Tiago Splitter in the lineup. Splitter was the MVP of his Euro league last season.

[BuckeyeRed27]

My Jazz seem to be undergoing some growing pains with the roster turnover. They'll be fine, though.

Ugly first two games. They seem to have no energy and were constantly getting out worked for rebounds and loose balls. They have a lot of new pieces and it will take a little bit of time to get it together. I would like to see DWill take over a bit more than he does sometimes.

[Razor Shines]

Spurs looked good against the Pacers. As their roster is a bit younger now, they intend to play a more up-tempo offense this year, without giving up their focus on defense. Fans are looking forward to seeing off-season signee Tiago Splitter in the lineup. Splitter was the MVP of his Euro league last season.

Yeah, my wife's family goes to several Spurs a year. We are looking forward to heading down once he starts playing. It'll be interesting to see how much of a boost he can give them in his first season.

[WMR]

Kings need to trade one of their bigs for another guard or athletic SF.

[WMR]

Wizards are just beyond awful with Arenas and Howard out of the lineup. They need a quality big man desperately. Maybe they'll do poorly enough to be able to draft Kanter.

[Yachtzee]

It's probably just posturing since their CBA is up but Stern is talking contraction.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5715816

I think this combined with talk of a hard cap and the possibility of a franchise tag indicates that the league wants to prevent further shenanigans similar to what occured with LeBron and the Heat this past summer. Stern is clearly concerned about teams and players using similar tactics that would result in teams concentrating talent in a few high-profile markets. He's probably pushing to make sure the NBA looks more like the NFL, where marquee talent is spread among small and large market teams. Contraction is probably the threat to the players that tells them what will happen if they don't agree to new free agency rules that improve the ability of small markets to retain their best players. One of the commissioner's roles is to promote the health of the league as a whole, and recent developments don't bode well for that.

While having superteams in places like Miami, NY and LA may be good for ESPN's ratings in the same way all those Yankees-Red Sox games are, the NBA is probably not strong enough to punt fan interest in the rest of the country for ratings gains in a few big markets. MLB has a practical monopoly on summer and doesn't have to worry about fans losing interest and choosing to watch the college game or other pro sports during their season, although they would be wise to push ESPN to give more airtime to teams outside the Northeast.

Me personally, this is probably the last I'll post in this thread. I lost interest in the NBA well before the LeBron saga. Now that Time Warner and XBox Live are giving me access to ESPN3, I'll have a lot more choices in my sports viewing. I've got more college games as well as EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, and cup games to watch.

[Razor Shines]

I think the NBA is fantastic.It's even better this year, now that I have a team that I can hate(Miami).Those guys are probably ok dudes I guess but,I just keep thinking about the Fri. after Lebron announced his intention to sell out errrrr sign with the Heat.ESPN aired live, some kind of welcoming party/introduction for the big three.It was terrible and pretty much made me sick.I knew then that I'd enjoy rooting against those guys just as much as I enjoy seeing the Yankees fail.Watching Boston(and I'm even a Laker fan) beat them down Tues. night was very enjoyable.

I hope you really enjoyed it because you probably won't get too many chances this year to revel in their defeat. They looked very good against the Magic tonight.

The run and gun, no D Pacers won tonight. I really enjoy watching Tyler Hansborough play.

[Captain Hook]

I hope you really enjoyed it because you probably won't get too many chances this year to revel in their defeat. They looked very good against the Magic tonight.

The run and gun, no D Pacers won tonight. I really enjoy watching Tyler Hansborough play.

Don't get me wrong,I fully expect them to win every game I watch.They are going to be hard to beat this year during the regular season if the big 3 stay healthy but, in the playoffs there are a few teams that I'm sure can knock them off.

[NJReds]

I hope you really enjoyed it because you probably won't get too many chances this year to revel in their defeat. They looked very good against the Magic tonight.


Surprised the game wasn't sold out. They reported it as a late sell-out, but I saw a lot of empty seats near courtside. I can't believe with this team that the Heat are struggling to sell tix.

How about the Nets ... 2-0!

[webbbj]

rome wasnt built in a day it took 3 days for the heat to absolutely dominate. 81-1 is gonna be so sweet to see. but realistically im hoping for 73-9 then rings!!!!!!!!

[BuckeyeRed27]

Surprised the game wasn't sold out. They reported it as a late sell-out, but I saw a lot of empty seats near courtside. I can't believe with this team that the Heat are struggling to sell tix.

How about the Nets ... 2-0!

All I could think of when watching that game was how terrible that crowd was. Might have one of the best teams in NBA history and I can't think of a city that deserves it less than Miami. Contrast it with the Boston crowd from opening night and it was even more amazing just how bad the Miami crowd was.

[webbbj]

All I could think of when watching that game was how terrible that crowd was. Might have one of the best teams in NBA history and I can't think of a city that deserves it less than Miami. Contrast it with the Boston crowd from opening night and it was even more amazing just how bad the Miami crowd was.

what exactly makes a city deserve a certain team? i think you take anything and everything you can get. I love cincy but i by no means believe we deserve anything. and i dont think cleveland desrves anything more than what they got for sure (idont know if thats what ur getting at)

[Boston Red]

I think he's getting at the fact that Miami fans are notoriously terrible at supporting their teams (at least in terms of buying tickets and showing up).

[BuckeyeRed27]

I think he's getting at the fact that Miami fans are notoriously terrible at supporting their teams (at least in terms of buying tickets and showing up).

That and they don't know what they are doing. They aren't smart fans. They have no idea how and when to support the team.

[Razor Shines]

So the Heat look kinda good. They beat the Magic by 26, the Nets by 23 and just stomped the Wolves 129-97. Clearly the Nets and Wolves aren't good but watching the games the Heat really seem to be clicking.

[WMR]

Amazing. To think folks here almost had me convinced that their 'fatal flaw' had been exposed by the Celtics in the very first game!! :eek:

[NJReds]

They could start the NBA playoffs today if they'd like. Heat, Celtics, Lakers in a round robin. There's no need for a regular season this year.

[Homer Bailey]

They could start the NBA playoffs today if they'd like. Heat, Celtics, Lakers in a round robin. There's no need for a regular season this year.

Oklahoma City, please and thank you.

[Razor Shines]

Oklahoma City, please and thank you.

Tonight is the first chance I've had to see an entire game of theirs this year. Really struggled in the first half, but have made a nice comeback. They're a good team probably better than their current record, but I still don't think they're a top flight team quite yet. I love watching KD play though.

I still LOL at my brother when he would tell me how much better an NBAer Oden would be than KD. We went back and forth that year before the draft and my argument was that the Blazers would be stupid not to take KD.

[TeamSelig]

Nah, you take a big over a SF 10 times out of 10. A SF who looked so rail thin that he wouldn't be able to do anything in the NBA.

Hindsight, it was a horrible pick... but I think realistically, the right pick at the time was made.

[Razor Shines]

Nah, you take a big over a SF 10 times out of 10. A SF who looked so rail thin that he wouldn't be able to do anything in the NBA.

Hindsight, it was a horrible pick... but I think realistically, the right pick at the time was made.

Most times sure, but at the time I said KD was a super star stud talent. There just aren't many guys with his length that can play inside and outside as well as he does and he rebounds very well for a small forward.

I don't know who these people were that thought he was too thin "to do anything in the NBA" but there were plenty of people who thought he should have been the first pick.

[TeamSelig]

The guy couldn't bench press his weight even one time. His strength and structure was his big "question mark" as I remember it. There were quite a few KD supporters, I'll give you that. But still big > small. If Oden doesn't get hurt every single year, I think the talk would be of how crazy that draft class was and not, I can't believe they picked Oden before Durant. Oden is a game changer, for sure. It's just unfortunate that he is so injury prone.

When Beasley came out, I remember telling myself... I was so wrong about Kevin Durant that I'm not gonna fall for this again. I was big on Beasley > Rose. Man was I wrong again. Good thing I'm not an NBA scout ;)

[Jack Burton]

How about that trash talk KG directed at Villanueva? What a low class individual.

[cincrazy]

The guy couldn't bench press his weight even one time. His strength and structure was his big "question mark" as I remember it. There were quite a few KD supporters, I'll give you that. But still big > small. If Oden doesn't get hurt every single year, I think the talk would be of how crazy that draft class was and not, I can't believe they picked Oden before Durant. Oden is a game changer, for sure. It's just unfortunate that he is so injury prone.

When Beasley came out, I remember telling myself... I was so wrong about Kevin Durant that I'm not gonna fall for this again. I was big on Beasley > Rose. Man was I wrong again. Good thing I'm not an NBA scout ;)

Oden has always been more about potential than anything. He's tall, he's athletic... he COULD be great. The guy had no back-to-the-basket moves at OSU, and still doesn't for the most part. He's certainly a presence in the paint on defense, and he's not atrocious on offense... but no way should he be taken above Durant.

[WVRed]

Oden has always been more about potential than anything. He's tall, he's athletic... he COULD be great. The guy had no back-to-the-basket moves at OSU, and still doesn't for the most part. He's certainly a presence in the paint on defense, and he's not atrocious on offense... but no way should he be taken above Durant.

Sam Bowie says hi.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/470/312/51872845_display_image.jpg?

http://www.reclinergm.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/nba_g_oden_195.jpg

[cincrazy]

Sam Bowie says hi.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/470/312/51872845_display_image.jpg?

http://www.reclinergm.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/nba_g_oden_195.jpg

Exactly. I think too often GMs reach for height. Oden was, and is, very clearly raw. And the injury concerns plagued him at OSU, they weren't something that just materialized over night. The Blazers knew the risks and took him anyways.

If Oden stays four years at OSU, I'm not even sure how good of a college player he becomes. I'm not convinced he ever stays on the court long enough to make a true impact.

[RBA]

Lakers looking good. Even without Andrew.

[Cedric]

Exactly. I think too often GMs reach for height. Oden was, and is, very clearly raw. And the injury concerns plagued him at OSU, they weren't something that just materialized over night. The Blazers knew the risks and took him anyways.

If Oden stays four years at OSU, I'm not even sure how good of a college player he becomes. I'm not convinced he ever stays on the court long enough to make a true impact.

Raw or not he is a damn good NBA player when healthy. I realize that is a big if though.

Look at the numbers and how efficient he was last year before his injury.

[Unassisted]

Spurs are 5-1 now. Just read today how happy Popovich is to have such a deep bench to work with.

[cincrazy]

Raw or not he is a damn good NBA player when healthy. I realize that is a big if though.

Look at the numbers and how efficient he was last year before his injury.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. He certainly is productive when in the lineup. But unfortunately, we can't ignore the injury aspect of it.

Also, even Oden at his best doesn't warrant a pick over Durant, IMO.

[Razor Shines]

Raw or not he is a damn good NBA player when healthy. I realize that is a big if though.

Look at the numbers and how efficient he was last year before his injury.

Even when healthy he's not a dominating offensive force, not yet anyway.

[TeamSelig]

Oden is not just "potential"... he's a really good player... when healthy. Yes, he's never healthy, I understand that. His offensive game isn't dominating, but still quite efficient (61%). Defensively though, I'd say he is a game changer. 2.3 BPG in just under 24 minutes.

Oden at his best.... have we seen it? Has he ever been healthy? He's either injured, rehabbing, or fresh on the court from an injury. I think a healthy and in game shape Oden would put up something like 16 ppg (around 60% FG) 10 rpg 3-3.5 bpg. Which still might not be enough to pick him over Durant. It's just hard to consider players busts when they are just injury prone but have played well with the opportunities that they've had.

As for the Bowie comment.... sorry, Durant isn't on MJ's level.

[cincrazy]

Oden is not just "potential"... he's a really good player... when healthy. Yes, he's never healthy, I understand that. His offensive game isn't dominating, but still quite efficient (61%). Defensively though, I'd say he is a game changer. 2.3 BPG in just under 24 minutes.

Oden at his best.... have we seen it? Has he ever been healthy? He's either injured, rehabbing, or fresh on the court from an injury. I think a healthy and in game shape Oden would put up something like 16 ppg (around 60% FG) 10 rpg 3-3.5 bpg. Which still might not be enough to pick him over Durant. It's just hard to consider players busts when they are just injury prone but have played well with the opportunities that they've had.

As for the Bowie comment.... sorry, Durant isn't on MJ's level.

I don't think the debate is about whether Oden is productive or not (which he is) or whether Durant is on MJ's level (nobody is, quite frankly).

Oden is a good NBA center. Kevin Durant is a potential once-in-a-generation talent.

[Scrap Irony]

Kevin Durant is a potential once-in-a-generation talent.

Except he's not.

LeBron and Kobe are in that generation and both are far better.

And, just behind Durant are players that may be just as good-- Blake Griffin and John Wall.

Durant is good-- all NBA good, for that matter. He may even be HOF good. But he's not a generational talent.

[Boston Red]

Sweet win for my Jazz tonight in Miami. Paul Millsap does not suck.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Sweet win for my Jazz tonight in Miami. Paul Millsap does not suck.

Wooooooooo!!!!!!
What a frickin game.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Jazz win again! After coming back from 22 last night in Miami they come back from 18 down in the 3rd to be Orlando in Orlando.

In other news John Wall becomes the youngest player in NBA history to mess around and get a triple double. Pretty impressive.

[Kingspoint]

Looks like the Blazers might find out this year how good a pick Oden ends up being as it's looking like Roy may be done for the season. Pryzbilla comes back in 3 weeks and Oden a month after that. Come January, it will be hard for any team to score 90 on the Blazers.

[Kingspoint]

Jazz win again! After coming back from 22 last night in Miami they come back from 18 down in the 3rd to be Orlando in Orlando.

In other news John Wall becomes the youngest player in NBA history to mess around and get a triple double. Pretty impressive.

Very impressive.

They're likely to be the only team that pulls off that two-fer this season, defeating both Miami and Orlando in back-to-back nights.

[Kingspoint]

It's nice to see the whining stopped.

Instituting the quick whistle by refs for "anything" demonstrative than hints of complaining has been good for the game. Already, after just 6-7 games, the "crap" that players and coaches have been doing is all gone.

Can't imagine what teams like the Spurs, and guys like Chris Paul and Kevin Garnett are going to do if they can't complain about every little thing every minute of the game.

It seems to have allowed Paul to concentrate more on playing and less on whining. Same goes for the Spurs.

[Kingspoint]

I hope you really enjoyed it because you probably won't get too many chances this year to revel in their defeat. They looked very good against the Magic tonight.

The run and gun, no D Pacers won tonight. I really enjoy watching Tyler Hansborough play.

Mike Dunleavy is tearing the league up. He's playing like an MVP.

[Kingspoint]

rome wasnt built in a day it took 3 days for the heat to absolutely dominate. 81-1 is gonna be so sweet to see. but realistically im hoping for 73-9 then rings!!!!!!!!

They won't win 70 games....even if they do play in the East, where chump victories are around every corner.

[gefootball10]

wall was the third youngest to record the trip doub...behind lamar odom (2) and lbj (1) by a couple of days.

[Kingspoint]

Dwayne Wade: "We're the best 5-4 team in the League."

[BuckeyeRed27]

Dwayne Wade: "We're the best 5-4 team in the League."

They'll get better as Wade and James get used to each other, but they are going to have problems with teams with elite point guards and/or physical big men.

So far they have lost to Paul, Williams and Rondo (twice) and were dominated in the paint by Utah and New Orleans.

[Kingspoint]

Good games tonight.

Utah @ Atlanta (That trip just doesn't get any easier)

Portland @ Oklahoma City (Roy might play 22 minutes, ineffectively though...his trips to the line will benefit the team, though)

[Kingspoint]

The JAZZ pull off another amazing upset with another outstanding, dominating 4th Quarter.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The JAZZ pull off another amazing upset with another outstanding, dominating 4th Quarter.

Down 11 in the 3rd quarter too. Great team effort.

I love watching the Jazz win tough road games. For the past few years I would chalk these up to automatic losses.

[Boston Red]

Well, not exactly an amazing upset (the Jazz were three point dogs), but it was another super nice comeback. Great road trip, even if the Jazz struggle in their fourth game in five nights in Charlotte on Saturday.

[Kingspoint]

Brandon Roy lost another game for the Trailblazers to Oklahoma City.

While the Blazers went from 5 up to 3 down in the closing minutes to OKC, Roy was missing 6 straight shots. Just like their last loss to OKC where they went from about 7 up to letting OKC tie it and win it in overtime while the Blazers stood around and watched Roy-iso for 6 minutes lose the game for them.

Roy is tough. He has great heart. He wants to play. But, he's injured (never did play good defense), can't play any defense, and chokes now at end of games. He's drain on the Blazers and should get his surgery and come back in January of 2012 a healthier and better Roy. He's going to drag that team down all season long because of his desire to compete and his unwillingness to recognize that he's hurting the team.

Nate McMillan doesn't have enough say in the matter to recognize that he's hurting the team, while also not wanting to admit that he does because he plays the slow-down, methodical, easy-to-stop Offense that Nate prefers. Looks like the Blazers could easily finish in last place in their division if Roy continues to play hurt.

[Kingspoint]

Great performance by Kevin Love with 31 points and 31 rebounds. First time since 1982 and Moses Malone that someone's had a 30-30 night.

Now maybe the idiot Minnesota Coach will recognize that Kevin Love is his best player and shouldn't be yanked from the games during critical times,....like 4th Quarters. While he was at it, he held Amare Stoudamire to 14 points on the night playing very good defense. He single-handedly out-rebounded the entire New York Knicks, 31-30.

[Boston Red]

Jazz just finished off a legendary 4-0 roadtrip. Four games in five nights at Miami, Orlando, Atlanta and Charlotte. Trailed by double digits in the fourth quarter of all four. Amazing.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The Spurs players may want to keep their women away from Tony Parker...

[Kingspoint]

The Spurs players may want to keep their women away from Tony Parker...

Really?

Interesting...

http://www.tmz.com/2010/11/17/brent-barry-divorce-eva-longoria-tony-parker-erin-barry/

Cue the French jokes.

[UKFlounder]

Greg Oden out for the season, yet again.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5819493

[BuckeyeRed27]

Watching NBATV right now and they are reporting that Greg Oden will have microfacture surgery on his left knee on Friday and will miss the remainder of the season.

Too bad. Oden is a great talent, but just can't stay healthy. I feel really bad for him.

[Slyder]

Watching NBATV right now and they are reporting that Greg Oden will have microfacture surgery on his left knee on Friday and will miss the remainder of the season.

Too bad. Oden is a great talent, but just can't stay healthy. I feel really bad for him.

So when does the Sam Bowie questions start?

[Chip R]

Greg Oden out for the season - again.

I don't know what it is about Portland and centers but it seems like any big man who is drafted by them succumbs to injury.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5819493

[Razor Shines]

Wow, I really feel bad for him. Although we should really feel bad for the blazers and their fans because oden is making a lot of money.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Wow, I really feel bad for him. Although we should really feel bad for the blazers and their fans because oden is making a lot of money.

Obviously Greg Oden has made a lot of money. He is making about $6.7M this year and has been paid about $20M in his career so far. His salary this year makes him the 5th highest paid player on the Blazers roster so it's not like he has some killer contract that is killing the team. He also is missing out on his first contract extension, which Durant will be paid roughly $90M over the next 5 years for example.

Hopefully he saved some of that money because he might not make it back from this.

[Revering4Blue]

Captain Hindsight takes on Greg Oden.


It would be easy for me to pile on and point out the ineptitude of Portland's front office now but here's the thing -- I liked the pick and I certainly wasn't alone.

One national poll before the '07 draft asked 21 of the NBA's GMs at the time one simple question, Oden or Durant? Twenty came back in one direction and no, it wasn't the guy who is now All-NBA First Team.

Hindsight could never change that. Unfortunately injuries did.


http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=nba/news/newstest.aspx?id=4357186

[Slyder]

Captain Hindsight takes on Greg Oden.




http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=nba/news/newstest.aspx?id=4357186

I was the 21st! Mwhahahaha. Not really. Though I would have taken Durant.

[improbus]

Things I have enjoyed/noticed/hated this season so far:
1) Enjoyed: Watching Chris Paul be himself again. We wrote off the Hornets even though they were a 2 seed in the west very recently.
2) Enjoyed: The deepest PG group in the league, maybe ever. Rondo, Paul, Rose, Wall, Williams, Westbrook, Nash, Kidd, Miller, Brooks, Holiday, Billups, Parker, Curry, Jennings, Harris, Nelson, and even Bledsoe. When Rubio gets here that will only go up.
3) Noticed: This slow start is the best thing that ever happened to the Heat. It will keep them somewhat humble, show them their flaws, and make them work harder. If they had come out fast, they may have regretted it later. Greatness is earned.
4) Hated: I love DeMarcus, but you can't start feuding already. Yikes.
5) Hated: Missing Rasheed and the new Technical system. That would have been beyond entertaining.

[Razor Shines]

^Darren Collison

[improbus]

^Darren Collison
Not sure I agree, yet. The Hornets were 27-22 w/ Paul starting last year (before his injury). When Cllison took over, they went 9-20. He will be good, but I'm not ready to put him on the list yet.

[Razor Shines]

Not sure I agree, yet. The Hornets were 27-22 w/ Paul starting last year (before his injury). When Cllison took over, they went 9-20. He will be good, but I'm not ready to put him on the list yet.

:laugh: But you already put Rubio on there. And Bledsoe with the Clippers 1-13.

[TeamSelig]

Oh. my. god.

YouTube - Blake Griffin HUGE Dunk All Over Tim Mozgov + Gallinari [11.20.10] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7vVsuwN8Yw)

[BuckeyeRed27]

Oh. my. god.

YouTube - Blake Griffin HUGE Dunk All Over Tim Mozgov + Gallinari [11.20.10] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7vVsuwN8Yw)

Wow. Those were both awesome.

I've watched two or three Clips games this year and I can't figure out how they aren't better. Blake Griffin will be a Top 10 player and is a lot of fun to watch. Gordon is very solid. Kaman is streaky, but a good compliment to Griffin. Baron Fat Davis is killing them, but Bledsoe is playing well for a rookie point guard. I'm not saying this is a playoff team, but they have the worst record in the NBA and that just baffles me.

[Scrap Irony]

Wow. Those were both awesome.

I've watched two or three Clips games this year and I can't figure out how they aren't better. Blake Griffin will be a Top 10 player and is a lot of fun to watch. Gordon is very solid. Kaman is streaky, but a good compliment to Griffin. Baron Fat Davis is killing them, but Bledsoe is playing well for a rookie point guard. I'm not saying this is a playoff team, but they have the worst record in the NBA and that just baffles me.

Shot selection and defense. The Clips don't know the meaning of a good shot. Kaman is having perhaps the worst season of anyone in the NBA-- that doesn't help. Most importantly, a lack of good decision-making and a lack of defensive effort means LA gives up around 20 points a game in lay-ups and foul shots that other teams don't.

If the individual parts would take ownership and play hard each possession, they'd be a .500 team. As is, they're lucky to have won one.

[improbus]

:laugh: But you already put Rubio on there. And Bledsoe with the Clippers 1-13.
That was a slight oversight by me, although Rubio would be a tremendous PG immediately. He is an excellent defender. He would be a 1998 version of Kidd very quickly w/out some of the rebounding.

[Boston Red]

The Jazz could be a contender in the West if they'd learn to play in the first quarter. In the meantime, the 20 point comebacks (another last night against the Lakers) are fun.

[Chip R]

Paging Pat Riley. Come in, Pat Riley.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=5862172

[Cedric]

Anyone surprised DeMarcus Cousins has already gotten himself into hot water in Sacramento?

The guy has always had a terrible attitude and got absolutely ZERO discipline in college. He got away with everything in college and yet somehow people expected him to be a professional. Always shocks me that people are surprised that throwing guaranteed cash at these guys causes some problems.

[gilpdawg]

Anyone surprised DeMarcus Cousins has already gotten himself into hot water in Sacramento?

The guy has always had a terrible attitude and got absolutely ZERO discipline in college. He got away with everything in college and yet somehow people expected him to be a professional. Always shocks me that people are surprised that throwing guaranteed cash at these guys causes some problems.
I always saw him as Derrick Coleman redux.


Sent from my HTC Liberty using Tapatalk

[Cedric]

I always saw him as Derrick Coleman redux.


Sent from my HTC Liberty using Tapatalk

Seems like a solid comp. I thought Cousins had the most pure talent of any player in this draft. He has been pretty awful so far though. He just stands around and shoots jump shots. That's not even mentioning his terrible defense and lazy fouls.

[Unassisted]

Paging Pat Riley. Come in, Pat Riley.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=5862172 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/news/story?id=5862172)I'm not convinced that Pat Riley can fix what's wrong with the Heat. He's probably less convinced than I am. They need the basketball equivalent of Joe Torre, which is probably Phil Jackson... and Phil's not going anywhere.

[Yachtzee]

I'm not convinced that Pat Riley can fix what's wrong with the Heat. He's probably less convinced than I am. They need the basketball equivalent of Joe Torre, which is probably Phil Jackson... and Phil's not going anywhere.

Just thought i'd check in and saw the link. I think its hilarious. The way people were talking after the "Decision," the Heat didn't even need a coach. Wade, James and Bosh would be so good together they wouldn't need a coach. LeBron probably thought he was recapturing his youth at St. V's where he and his buddies could laugh and goof around during practice and then roll over the competition because they're so good. Spoelstra is right. James is going to have to learn to take things seriously and become more of a professional if he ever wants a ring.

[Chip R]

I'm not convinced that Pat Riley can fix what's wrong with the Heat. He's probably less convinced than I am. They need the basketball equivalent of Joe Torre, which is probably Phil Jackson... and Phil's not going anywhere.


I agree. From everything you hear, Pat doesn't want to coach again. But it could be a case of methinks he doth protest too much. But the precedent has been set when he sent Stan Van Gundy packing then won the championship. If the Heat keep playing around .500 ball, the owner may get a little nervous that his big money guys aren't making this team dominate the competition. Of course you can't get rid of the players so it's much easier to get rid of the coach. Not very many people in the NBA have more respect than Riley. The owner begs him to take the job, what can Riley do? He may poach another championship out of it.

Personally, I think the Heat need some more time to adjust to playing together. I think they will eventually come around no matter who the coach is. I don't necessarily feel they will be the world beater a lot of people thought thery would be but they should make the playoffs easy enough. And after that, who knows?

[KoryMac5]

Speaking of the heat and The Bron, Dan Gilbert continues to mount his case against Riley and Wade for tampering.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AkyYiJfvq_u48Q3RebjmHQo5nYcB?slug=ap-cavaliers-heattampering

I doubt Stern will do much about it though, but it looks like he can't continue to ignore it much longer.

[Slyder]

Speaking of the heat and The Bron, Dan Gilbert continues to mount his case against Riley and Wade for tampering.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AkyYiJfvq_u48Q3RebjmHQo5nYcB?slug=ap-cavaliers-heattampering

I doubt Stern will do much about it though, but it looks like he can't continue to ignore it much longer.

All Gilbert is doing is reinforcing the fact he's a spoiled rich kid who doesn't like it when he doesn't get his way (players leaving). I will agree LeBron had 0 class in the way he handled himself as he was leaving. But every step of the way since Gilbert has done the same thing.

All Gilbert is doing is stoking the fires on a story that is already leaving questions about security in Cleveland.

Stern will ignore for as long as it takes, just like Selig ignored steroids in baseball. Until it gets to such point that he CAN'T ignore it.

[Homer Bailey]

Serious question.... will tonight be the loudest boo in sports history?

[BRM]

Serious question.... will tonight be the loudest boo in sports history?

It's going to be very rowdy. And interesting.

[BuckeyeRed27]

A few things:

1. I'm really looking forward to tonight. I hope the fans don't do anything stupid, but I hope they keep up a high level of taunting the whole game.

2. Blake Griffin is an absolute stud. He is an all-star this year.

3. I'm becoming more optimistic that the Jazz actually have a shot at the finals this year. I know its way to early for such thoughts, but this is the best I have felt about it in a long time.

4. Kevin Love is hilarious when he is interviewed.

[Boston Red]

3. I'm becoming more optimistic that the Jazz actually have a shot at the finals this year. I know its way to early for such thoughts, but this is the best I have felt about it in a long time.

Great, you've just ensured a seven game losing streak that includes losses to the Clippers, T-Pups and Kings.

[TeamSelig]

Season high 38 pts... keep on chanting Cleveland

[Cedric]

Season high 38 pts... keep on chanting Cleveland

LeBron and the Heat just don't have a style that will win against great teams or in the playoffs.

Last night will probably be the highlight of his year. Pretty sad actually.

[TeamSelig]

They will figure it out or the next coach will IMO. Too much talent. You also have to consider Mike Miller on the team. I think he will make a significant difference.

[Cedric]

They will figure it out or the next coach will IMO. Too much talent. You also have to consider Mike Miller on the team. I think he will make a significant difference.

Wade and LeBron just don't know how to play off the ball. It's almost like they have to take turns with the ball.

They dribble WAY too much outside the 3 point line and they don't have a PG with a pulse. There is honestly not much chance they could beat the Celtics, Lakers, or even Jazz this year. IMO.

[improbus]

Their record is directly reflective of Wade. He is shooting 43% and is getting lit up on defense (just ask Jodie Meeks and Brandon Ruch). Once Wade comes around, they will be fine. I did notice that they have started running more high pick and rolls with Wade and LeBron and I think that will be their bread and butter moving forward.

[Roy Tucker]

Once Lebron got rolling, it was like a train. They'll figure it out. The NBA season doesn't really start till February.

Watching as the Cavs went through the pre-game intros, I was like "who are these guys?". Cleveland really needs to get over this and start building a team. They got nuthin'.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Great, you've just ensured a seven game losing streak that includes losses to the Clippers, T-Pups and Kings.

I take full blame for the loss last night. I don't know what I was thinking.

[TeamSelig]

Wade and LeBron just don't know how to play off the ball. It's almost like they have to take turns with the ball.



I think a good coach could fix this. Neither one of these guys has ever had to play off the ball because they are so good with it. I've noticed when one has the ball, the other will camp behind the 3PT line... in the corner or something. I guess they are trying to spread the court and open up the lane.

What's funny though is that Wade and Lebron are both really good passers. So if the other would fight through a bunch of off the ball screens like a mad man (Rip or Reggie-like) it would lead to a lot of open shots and easy baskets. Instead of "isolation and drive to the hoop... ok now its your turn" Just my 2 cents. I do think they will get some chemistry and win a bunch of games. At this point though, it's just too unrealistic to predict them to win many playoff games against experienced/veteran playoff teams. Can you imagine them in the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed? lol.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Read an article on ESPN today that the Players Association is trying to get the league to eliminate the age limit so that high school players could jump in the draft again. I hate this idea and am hoping that they in fact raise it to 20 or 21 which I think benefits both the NBA and NCAA.

I'm curious if the NBA could possibly eliminate the age limit, but place a limit on rookie salaries for players that jump from high school. That would allow players to make the jump, but if they do they are guarenteed that the salary would be X% less than players that wait a year or two.

[Slyder]

Read an article on ESPN today that the Players Association is trying to get the league to eliminate the age limit so that high school players could jump in the draft again. I hate this idea and am hoping that they in fact raise it to 20 or 21 which I think benefits both the NBA and NCAA.

I'm curious if the NBA could possibly eliminate the age limit, but place a limit on rookie salaries for players that jump from high school. That would allow players to make the jump, but if they do they are guarenteed that the salary would be X% less than players that wait a year or two.

Its a stupid idea. Its why I stopped watching NBA 10 years ago. Most of the high school players coming out in the draft had no business coming out for every Kobe or LeBron you have a dozen Kwame Brown or more. It watered down the quality of the game so much that I just quit watching. Yes I was a bit of a Bulls fan, but I still watched other basketball games. NBA needs to RAISE the age limit not lower it. You cost coaches and your older members jobs. As teams take the "next big thing" to find out they're a flop or going to take at least 2-3 years to get "it" on the NBA level to begin with.

I want them to raise it, not lower it but your idea of the % less coming straight out of high school makes too much common sense for it to ever make it into the CBA. The players association would be doing its present membership much more good if they would fight to increase the age to come out for the NBA. Keeping jobs and making the high schoolers work on their game at least 1 season at college and prove they are ready.

[BuckeyeRed27]

It is amazing to me the Joey Crawford has been able to keep a job for as long as he has.

[NJReds]

I'm glad the Knicks signed Amare rather than Bosh. Felton is a player, too. Nice to see some wins in the Garden again.

[improbus]

Its a stupid idea. Its why I stopped watching NBA 10 years ago. Most of the high school players coming out in the draft had no business coming out for every Kobe or LeBron you have a dozen Kwame Brown or more. It watered down the quality of the game so much that I just quit watching. Yes I was a bit of a Bulls fan, but I still watched other basketball games. NBA needs to RAISE the age limit not lower it. You cost coaches and your older members jobs. As teams take the "next big thing" to find out they're a flop or going to take at least 2-3 years to get "it" on the NBA level to begin with.

I want them to raise it, not lower it but your idea of the % less coming straight out of high school makes too much common sense for it to ever make it into the CBA. The players association would be doing its present membership much more good if they would fight to increase the age to come out for the NBA. Keeping jobs and making the high schoolers work on their game at least 1 season at college and prove they are ready.

How can you deny someone the capability of earning a living? That seems extremely selfish to me.

There have been far fewer flops than you think, and in the last few years of the HS kids in the draft, there were very few who went directly into the NBA and bombed out.

[Puffy]

Read an article on ESPN today that the Players Association is trying to get the league to eliminate the age limit so that high school players could jump in the draft again. I hate this idea and am hoping that they in fact raise it to 20 or 21 which I think benefits both the NBA and NCAA.

I'm curious if the NBA could possibly eliminate the age limit, but place a limit on rookie salaries for players that jump from high school. That would allow players to make the jump, but if they do they are guarenteed that the salary would be X% less than players that wait a year or two.

They are just posturing. Guys who have not yet been drafted into the league (in other words, college players and high school players) are NOT members of union and them getting drafted younger puts older vets (who are in union) out of league. Its just a game to get something they really feel the need to fight for later.

And speaking of that who would of thunk that the person who is going to finish 2nd in the rookie of the year balloting (Blake Griffin is obviously Da Man) would be 4 year Stanford starter Landry Fields and not any one and done kid like the first overall pick John Wall. Now, don't get me wrong - over long haul Wall is going to be better and might even be better already (maybe) if not for injuries. But once again a 4 year kid comes in and makes immediate contributions even though he wasn't thought as highly of. The NBA needs more of him, not less.

[BuckeyeRed27]

How can you deny someone the capability of earning a living? That seems extremely selfish to me.

There have been far fewer flops than you think, and in the last few years of the HS kids in the draft, there were very few who went directly into the NBA and bombed out.

Of course its selfish. But it's their league and they can make the rules. And the more information you can get on someone that you are going to have to give a multimillion dollar contract too the better.

My job requires that I have a college degree. Now I could argue that my employer was denying me the capability to earn a living, but I'm pretty sure they would tell you that they are just trying to ensure they are getting a better product before they start giving me money. (I understand this is a complete apples to apples comparision but you get the idea.)

[Slyder]

How can you deny someone the capability of earning a living? That seems extremely selfish to me.

There have been far fewer flops than you think, and in the last few years of the HS kids in the draft, there were very few who went directly into the NBA and bombed out.

I watch as a former fan of the NBA. The quality of games went WAAAAAAAAY down when they started having all the high school players going pro too early. And that may cloud my judgment but here goes. I laugh at the commentators when I am channel surfing and see the stuff and them compare the teams to the greats. I wish I had enough money to bet every one of the talking heads that the Heat were going to win 70 games. I said then the absolute MAX this team as constructed would be 65, with all its depth issues. And that was being nice and assuming that Wade wasnt going to miss any time.

And what right do owners have taking these "3-4 year projects" and then fire the coach in the middle of that because its taking too long for them to develop the mentality and the maturity to play in the NBA? NFL does it, MLB and NHL have the minor leagues. Shouldn't the coaches be given the best personel they can to win?

You water down your quality of your sport letting the kids (in most cases) come straight out of high school thinking they're the **** cause they can dominant over their competition that might produce a handfull of guys that might get offers to play after high school.

And what right do these players that have proven nothing have at taking guys who have already proven themselves for years (most likely) moving around. Or have shown to be reliable 2nd teamers because some kid averages 40 ppg vs high school competition.

You are looking at a billion dollar industry that relies on jersey sales and attendance and unless the kid is LeBron James there isnt the immediate oppertunity for fans to attach themselves to players they do not know outside of what they hear from the ESPN "draft gurus". Even if you keep it at a year out of high school, they build up a little bit of name recognition by playing 1 year in college and being seen on tv.

[improbus]

I think that blaming the "demise" of the style NBA on the high school kids is fairly simplistic. I would say that the high school kids are a small factor amongst others. Here are my factors:
1) Pistons introduce physical defense (followed by Knicks/Heat/Bulls). As much as we loved the Bird/Magic era, defense was the time when you weren't playing offense.
2) Increased Free Agency - Basketball is a sport that needs continuity and familiarity and free agency makes that hard to maintain
3) Michael Jordan - No one did more to advance basketball and set it back at the same time. Jordan created the one on one game that we see more and more today.
4) Players unprepared for the NBA. I think this goes for everyone, including college guys, HS guys, and foreign guys. But, is this the kids fault or is it the fault of the AAU/HS/College basketball system?

[WMR]

You really think it's realistic to expect AAU or the HS system to prepare kids for the NBA? :eek: Getting them ready for the college game is enough of a stretch.

The NBA doesn't owe anyone anything. Their league, their rules. If a kid disagrees, he can go to Europe a la Brandon Jennings.

[Kingspoint]

You really think it's realistic to expect AAU or the HS system to prepare kids for the NBA? :eek: Getting them ready for the college game is enough of a stretch.

The NBA doesn't owe anyone anything. Their league, their rules. If a kid disagrees, he can go to Europe a la Brandon Jennings.

Agree.

At least the NBA got that rookie cap figured out. The NFL needs to get that done.

[15fan]

I would like to interrupt this conversation about the lack of fundamentals & the poor quality of basketball in the NBA to mention that the Spurs are now an NBA best 20-3.

If you want to watch the kind of basketball fundamentals that would make John Wooden and Bobby Knight weep with joy, check out a San Antonio game.

[Sophie Hart]

I especially like when younger and more talented players are allowed to play...

[Kingspoint]

I would like to interrupt this conversation about the lack of fundamentals & the poor quality of basketball in the NBA to mention that the Spurs are now an NBA best 20-3.

If you want to watch the kind of basketball fundamentals that would make John Wooden and Bobby Knight weep with joy, check out a San Antonio game.

There's great basketball being played in Texas.

Rick Adelman will always give you your money's worth, currently working with a heavily undermanned Houston squad.

Dirk Nowitski has been one of the 8 best players in the NBA over the last 10 years. He's as good as he ever was.

[Revering4Blue]

Otis Smith just swung for the fences. We’ll see if he connects.

The Orlando Magic have traded Vince Carter, Mikael Pietrus, and Marcin Gortat to the Phoenix Suns for Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu, and Earl Clark. The Magic have also traded Rashard Lewis to the Washington Wizards for Gilbert Arenas. Orlando also sends a 2011 first-round pick and cash to Phoenix

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/18/done-deal-magic-trades-phoenix-vince-carter-and-others-for-jason-richardson-hedo-turkoglu/

[texasdave]

Dwight Howard - C
Hedo Turkoglu - PF
Jason Richardson - SF
Gilbert Arenas - SG
Jameer Nelson - PG

Looks pretty strong to me.

[Razor Shines]

Dwight Howard - C
Hedo Turkoglu - PF
Jason Richardson - SF
Gilbert Arenas - SG
Jameer Nelson - PG

Looks pretty strong to me.

You're leaving out the most important part....they still have JJ Redick.

[UKFlounder]

Yes they added Gilbert Arenas - this increased their physical talent, but I'm not convinced he's an improvement for them.

Plus is Turkoglu still as good as when he was last in Orlando? Did he stink the last 1+ years because of the system or is he on the downside now? I suspect he'll be better now in Orlando, but it might be worth watching.

[UKFlounder]

nm

[cincrazy]

Yes they added Gilbert Arenas - this increased their physical talent, but I'm not convinced he's an improvement for them.

Plus is Turkoglu still as good as when he was last in Orlando? Did he stink the last 1+ years because of the system or is he on the downside now? I suspect he'll be better now in Orlando, but it might be worth watching.

I agree with you here, I'm not sure how good this really makes them. However, I do think it's something they had to do. They clearly weren't winning anything with Vince Carter and Rashard Lewis, they both look finished. I don't think Arenas and Turkoglu are the answer to anything, but who knows. They know what they had in VC and Lewis, time to roll the dice with a few new players.

Although, I don't suspect it will amount to enough. The Magic frontcourt after Dwight Howard..... YIKES.

[Kingspoint]

It is amazing to me the Joey Crawford has been able to keep a job for as long as he has.

....Steve Javy, ....Violet Palmer, ....etc.

[BRM]

You're leaving out the most important part....they still have JJ Redick.

:laugh:

I can always count on my man Razor for comedy relief. I wonder if WMR is still wearing his Redick jersey proudly...

[WMR]

Future NBA Superstar DeMarcus Cousins is up all the way to #2 in the latest Rookie Ladder rankings...

http://www.nba.com/rookieladder/?ls=iref:nbahpt1;


Cousins has been nearly unstoppable lately, and the Kings are finding success when they cener their offense around him. Against the Suns on Sunday, Cousins scored 13 of his career-high 28 points in the fourth quarter to help Sacramento rally from a 14-point deficit for the 94-89 win. On Tuesday, he nearly led the Kings back from another deficit, scoring 24 points with seven rebounds, and forced Larry Drew to bring his starters back to close out the game. In his last four games, Cousins is aveaging 22.3 points and 9.8 rebounds. "He wants to win," teammate Omri Casspi said. "That's it. He just wants to win. He is competitive; he's a great guy and a great teammate. He wants to win so bad."

Boogie is a great kid, just immature in some ways. He has the ability to be one of the top Centers in the NBA for many years.

(3 Cats in the Top 10- Boogie, John Wall, and....... PPatterson! checking in at #10 after he finally gets his shot with the Rockets.)

[RBA]

Is there a market for a 36 year old 6ft 3in Canadian?

[Homer Bailey]

The Cavs have lost 18 of 19, and the Heat have won 19 of 20. How LeBron James took that team to the NBA Finals, 66 wins, and 61 wins in the last four seasons absolutely blows my mind.

[Razor Shines]

The Cavs have lost 18 of 19, and the Heat have won 19 of 20. How LeBron James took that team to the NBA Finals, 66 wins, and 61 wins in the last four seasons absolutely blows my mind.

Just remember he's not a #1 guy, he's just a "Robin". :rolleyes:

[BRM]

Boogie is a great kid, just immature in some ways. He has the ability to be one of the top Centers in the NBA for many years.


In some ways? He's very immature. Agree on the second point though. Kid has some serious talent.

[Homer Bailey]

Just remember he's not a #1 guy, he's just a "Robin". :rolleyes:

LOL.

I also recently heard Skip Bayless say Cam Newton has better intangibles than LeBron James.

[WMR]

In some ways? He's very immature. Agree on the second point though. Kid has some serious talent.

What I meant was: he's not a bad kid/person. When you get him away from the basketball court, he's actually quite introspective and has a very funny sense of humor. He's not someone you've got to ever worry about getting in trouble off the court.

[BRM]

What I meant was: he's not a bad kid/person. When you get him away from the basketball court, he's actually quite introspective and has a very funny sense of humor. He's not someone you've got to ever worry about getting in trouble off the court.

Don't know about any of that so I'll take your word for it. All I see or hear from him is on the court and he's got a ton of growing up to do there. He'll get there eventually. No denying his talent though. Kid is a beast.

[Kingspoint]

The Cavs have lost 18 of 19, and the Heat have won 19 of 20. How LeBron James took that team to the NBA Finals, 66 wins, and 61 wins in the last four seasons absolutely blows my mind.

Yet, he won't take this team to 66 wins, and maybe not 61 wins.

[Kingspoint]

Injuries are catching up to the entire Western Conference.

[Razor Shines]

Yet, he won't take this team to 66 wins, and maybe not 61 wins.

They're still learning to play together, different situation. I bet they win 60+ next year. They are 21-2 since Thanksgiving.

[Homer Bailey]

Yet, he won't take this team to 66 wins, and maybe not 61 wins.

Haha. Good one!

[Unassisted]

Latest Carmelo trade rumor (http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2011/01/10/carmelo-anthony-trade-to-new-jersey-seems-imminent-knicks-fans-refuse-to-believe-its-gonna-happen/):


There are many proposals floating around online, but the mostly like scenario is a 3-team trade that swaps a staggering 15 players: New Jersey gets Melo, Billups, Rip Hamilton, Anthony Carter and Shelden Williams; Denver gets Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, Anthony Morrow, Quinton Ross, Stephen Graham, Ben Uzoh and two first-round picks; Detroit gets Troy Murphy and Johan Petro.

[BRM]

The rumors this morning had Al Harrington in the deal, not Shelden Williams. But NJ did not want Harrington because of his salary. It will be interesting to see if Melo approves this deal by signing the extension. He's apparently been pretty adament about his desire to play for the Knicks.

[BuckeyeRed27]

The rumors this morning had Al Harrington in the deal, not Shelden Williams. But NJ did not want Harrington because of his salary. It will be interesting to see if Melo approves this deal by signing the extension. He's apparently been pretty adament about his desire to play for the Knicks.

He'd be really stupid not to. He still gets to play in NY and doesn't have to leave $15M on the table.

The Nets wouldn't be a contender in the East, but would make the playoffs probably even this year if they can get this done soon.

[Kingspoint]

They're still learning to play together, different situation. I bet they win 60+ next year. They are 21-2 since Thanksgiving.

Finally got to see them in person. I can see why they're winning. The "Big 3" can't do anything wrong in most of the officials' eyes. Some of the Veteran officials will call things on them, but none of the younger officials will ever blow a whistle against them for anything. So, they get to grab, hold, travel, foul, and basically have carte blanche on the court. I guess they could win 65+ games if this continues, and I see no reason why it won't continue. They're great. No doubt about it, but other teams don't need to play 5 on 8 every night, which is what it looks like that they're doing. The last game I saw, they were given every call in the first half. Two Rookie officials never blew one whistle against them a single time. The Veteran made a few calls the younger officials were supposed to make, but the Veteran didn't step in for them all. I have a feeling the Veteran official spoke to the younger officials at halftime about it because in the second half all three officials called the game fairly. That was nice to see. Younger officials get very intimidated by the Heat, especially Wade and James, and a little bit by Bosh as he likes to complain a lot (of course James is a cry-baby, too, and an incredible athlete/basketball player).

[Kingspoint]

The rumors this morning had Al Harrington in the deal, not Shelden Williams. But NJ did not want Harrington because of his salary. It will be interesting to see if Melo approves this deal by signing the extension. He's apparently been pretty adament about his desire to play for the Knicks.

The latest rumor is that nothing will get done for another 6 weeks.

[BRM]

The latest rumor is that nothing will get done for another 6 weeks.

It is sure sounding that way. The Nuggets are really slow-rolling this thing. This current package being offered is probably the best they are going to get. I guess we'll see if the stalling pays off for them in the end.

[Razor Shines]

Finally got to see them in person. I can see why they're winning. The "Big 3" can't do anything wrong in most of the officials' eyes. Some of the Veteran officials will call things on them, but none of the younger officials will ever blow a whistle against them for anything. So, they get to grab, hold, travel, foul, and basically have carte blanche on the court. I guess they could win 65+ games if this continues, and I see no reason why it won't continue. They're great. No doubt about it, but other teams don't need to play 5 on 8 every night, which is what it looks like that they're doing. The last game I saw, they were given every call in the first half. Two Rookie officials never blew one whistle against them a single time. The Veteran made a few calls the younger officials were supposed to make, but the Veteran didn't step in for them all. I have a feeling the Veteran official spoke to the younger officials at halftime about it because in the second half all three officials called the game fairly. That was nice to see. Younger officials get very intimidated by the Heat, especially Wade and James, and a little bit by Bosh as he likes to complain a lot (of course James is a cry-baby, too, and an incredible athlete/basketball player).

So you think that Jordan, Bird, Magic..etc weren't that great either? Superstar player's teams getting all the calls is nothing new.

[NJReds]

It is sure sounding that way. The Nuggets are really slow-rolling this thing. This current package being offered is probably the best they are going to get. I guess we'll see if the stalling pays off for them in the end.

Word is that they absolutely do not want to deal him to the Knicks. I don't get that. They should take the best offer no matter who offers the deal. You can't let emotion get in the way of business.

[Scrap Irony]

Perhaps Melo is insisting he gets dealt to the Knicks instead?

(I could definitely see that.)

[BRM]

Word is that they absolutely do not want to deal him to the Knicks. I don't get that. They should take the best offer no matter who offers the deal. You can't let emotion get in the way of business.

Well, the Knicks haven't been a player yet so that shouldn't be a concern. Unless you meant the Nets?

[BRM]

Just saw this update on ESPN:


With Carmelo Anthony reportedly being booed in Denver, the Nuggets have told the Nets to quiet the public trade talk but haven't closed the door on a deal as of Tuesday.

The Nuggets went so far as to tell the Nets that they would deal their star to the New York Knicks if New Jersey continued to leak information on trade talks, Yahoo! Sports reported on Tuesday. But sources told ESPN.com that while the Nuggets were indeed unhappy, threats of a deal with the Knicks couldn't be confirmed.

[Puffy]

Why would Carmelo want to play for the Nets. This is a franchise who's goal is not to win titles but to win NY press back page headlines. Hell, they hired Billy King as their GM - the guy who was consistently rated one of the worst GM's while in Philly (along with Isiah, Chris Wallace, McHale, etc). No way players don't know this and know that expecting him and the Russian Mark Cuban to be able to build a winner around you is nonexistent. Plus the fact New York/New Jersey is Knicksland and the Knicks are finally on upswing - and then have money for summer of 2012 for max contract......

There are rumors out there that Melo will sign extension if he gets traded - don't believe them. That's coming from Nets camp and its why this Yahoo report about leaks is now out. Melo has never stated he is afraid to wait out the labor deal. As a matter of fact he is leaving the Nuggets offer on table and not signing because he wants to play in NY. Not New Jersey/Brooklyn.

[NJReds]

Well, the Knicks haven't been a player yet so that shouldn't be a concern. Unless you meant the Nets?

The Knicks have reportedly inquired, and they've been told they don't have what the Nuggets want. They've also been rebuffed when trying to bring other teams into the trade talks because Denver isn't interested in granting Anthony's wish to play at MSG.

They're not a player because Denver doesn't want them involved. I think it's short-sighted to run an organization with your heart rather then your head. They have to make the best decision for the Denver Nuggets, not deal him to NJ to spite the Knicks.

[Kingspoint]

So you think that Jordan, Bird, Magic..etc weren't that great either? Superstar player's teams getting all the calls is nothing new.

I thought I said it twice....that LeBron is a great player.

....and yes, it's certainly nothing new. I've always hated it, and still do hate it. It's not necessary.

[RBA]

Look out. Andrew Bynum is getting healthy. Lakers 112 Cavs 57 FINAL

[reds44]

Look out. Andrew Bynum is getting healthy. Lakers 112 Cavs 57 FINAL
And LeBron tweeted this at some point during the 2nd half of the beating:

@KingJames Crazy. Karma is a b****.. Gets you every time. Its not good to wish bad on anybody. God sees everything!

The man is just an idiot. I'm sure he'll come out tomorrow and say it wasn't about the Cavs or he doesn't know what "karma" means or something.

[webbbj]

I'd love bron to just come out and embrace the role of the villain and say that was a direct shot at the Cavs and dan gilbert.

also the current Nuggets are > than this ridiculous Nets team construct being created.

He should just refuse to sign an extension. no trade will happen and just sign w/ the knicks next offseason.

[BRM]

To further Puffy's point, saw this on ESPN.


According to several league sources, Anthony has not told anyone, not even his representatives, that he will sign a contract extension with the Nets.

One source who has spoken with Anthony since trade talks between Denver, New Jersey and Detroit became public last weekend said the Nuggets forward has never even hinted at signing with New Jersey.

"He has not agreed to go to New Jersey," said the source, who speaks regularly with Anthony. "I have never heard him, in all the times we've talked, say he's willing to go to New Jersey. Not once. Personally, I would be stunned if he went there and signed an extension."

[Razor Shines]

Lol. Bron Bron said the tweet was not in any way directed toward the Cavs. He was just making a general observation about life. Lol.

He looks way worse by lying about it.

[Slyder]

Lol. Bron Bron said the tweet was not in any way directed toward the Cavs. He was just making a general observation about life. Lol.

He looks way worse by lying about it.

I think he would actually look better if he just came out and said it was. Everyone knows exactly who the tweet was directed towards. But he doesnt want to be the villian even though he's already that role since the whole waste of time with the "decision".

[Boston Red]

His tweet will make all the more sense if the Heat lose to the Clips tonight.

[RBA]

His tweet will make all the more sense if the Heat lose to the Clips tonight.

End of 1st Qtr Clippers 44 Cavs 26

[Boston Red]

End of 1st Qtr Clippers 44 Cavs 26

Heat

[RBA]

Heat

thanks for the correction

Clippers running out of steam? Clippers 68 Heat 58 Half Time.

[RBA]

Looks like Lebron sprained his left ankle.

[RBA]

Clippers held on for the win. 111 - 105. Looked like Blake Griffin hasn't reach the status to get calls. The Heat were wacking the hell out of him, and no calls. On the other hand, Lebron traveling all over the placed was ignored.

[reds44]

Clippers held on for the win. 111 - 105. Looked like Blake Griffin hasn't reach the status to get calls. The Cavs were wacking the hell out of him, and no calls. On the other hand, Lebron traveling all over the placed was ignored.
Oh boy. Freudian slip?

Anyways, who else finds it funny the night after LeBron tweets about "karma" he turns his ankle and the Heat lose to the Clips?

[Homer Bailey]

I still think he's the best player, and he's done nothing to prove otherwise to me, but the guy seriously is so far out of touch with reality. He needs to just never open his mouth. Ever.

[Razor Shines]

KD put on a show in the 1Q against the Magic.

[BRM]

The LeBron-less Heat took a beating last night in Denver.

[Unassisted]

Mavs are 2-6 since Dirk left the lineup with a knee sprain. I think they'll miss him tonight against the Spurs.

[NJReds]

The LeBron-less Heat took a beating last night in Denver.

I guess LeBron was right about karma after all.

[Unassisted]

At 36-5 at the midpoint of the season, the Spurs now possess the third-best midpoint record ever in the NBA. Local fans are quick to point out that in the team's recent history, they've had better records in the second half than in the first.

[Buckeye33]

I know it's not a secret at all anymore, but Blake Griffin SHOULD be right in the MVP talk, but as a rookie he won't be in the top 3 most likely.

Today so far, still 2:30 to go, 43 & 14 on 17-22 shooting.

[improbus]

I traded Steve Nash for Blake in my fantasy league and reading his stat lines is one of the great joys of my life. He is a force of nature. Not only is he really improving, but the Clippers aren't that far out of the 8th seed in the West (especially w/ Roy out forever and Carmelo probably getting traded). It isn't inconceivable that they could make the playoffs. Also, it is good to have good Baron back. Thank you Blake.

[Razor Shines]

I was just in the car and Ben Mallard was on foxsports radio. Apparently he's a Clippers fan and the big topic was BGriffin. He was trying to make the argument that he's glad that the Clippers didn't get Lebron. He says they are a better team without Lebron because Blake Griffin wouldn't be able to dominate the way he has if Lebron was on the team.

Yeah, that's kind of the point isn't it? He wouldn't have to do everything himself because he'd have Lebron and they'd probably have a much better record.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I was just in the car and Ben Mallard was on foxsports radio. Apparently he's a Clippers fan and the big topic was BGriffin. He was trying to make the argument that he's glad that the Clippers didn't get Lebron. He says they are a better team without Lebron because Blake Griffin wouldn't be able to dominate the way he has if Lebron was on the team.

Yeah, that's kind of the point isn't it? He wouldn't have to do everything himself because he'd have Lebron and they'd probably have a much better record.

The clips with lebron would be a top 3 team.

[texasdave]

I was just in the car and Ben Mallard was on foxsports radio. Apparently he's a Clippers fan and the big topic was BGriffin. He was trying to make the argument that he's glad that the Clippers didn't get Lebron. He says they are a better team without Lebron because Blake Griffin wouldn't be able to dominate the way he has if Lebron was on the team.

Yeah, that's kind of the point isn't it? He wouldn't have to do everything himself because he'd have Lebron and they'd probably have a much better record.

He really tried to argue the point that the Clippers would be better without (arguably) the best player in the game? :eek:

[webbbj]

blake griffin would be an even better player with lebron. He would be able to score just as many but more efficiently.

[improbus]

Look at the Cavs post LeBron to see his effect on a win-loss record.

[texasdave]

Look at the Cavs post LeBron to see his effect on a win-loss record.

And maybe Mike Brown wasn't such a bad coach after all.

[RBA]

And maybe Mike Brown wasn't such a bad coach after all.

And the Lakers won't be hiring the current CAV coach anytime soon.

[Yachtzee]

Maybe if Lebron hadn't made a big spectacle of himself, drawing things out with his "Decision," the Cavs might have been able to move on earlier in the free agency period to rebuild their team without him. Or, if he was ever really serious about winning in Cleveland, he could have done what D-Wade did and worked out a deal with his contract to allow the team to bring in some more big name talent. But that's all water under the bridge. The Cavs were stuck because their fans weren't about to let them move on until LeBron decided where he wanted to go. Give the Cavs a full offseason without LeBron and let's see how they do at building a team.

[improbus]

Maybe if Lebron hadn't made a big spectacle of himself, drawing things out with his "Decision," the Cavs might have been able to move on earlier in the free agency period to rebuild their team without him. Or, if he was ever really serious about winning in Cleveland, he could have done what D-Wade did and worked out a deal with his contract to allow the team to bring in some more big name talent. But that's all water under the bridge. The Cavs were stuck because their fans weren't about to let them move on until LeBron decided where he wanted to go. Give the Cavs a full offseason without LeBron and let's see how they do at building a team.
I do agree with that. The current Cavs were assembled to be complimentary pieces. So, it isnt fair of me to take too many cheap shots at them. But, bad is still bad.

[15fan]

We interrupt the daily Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James dramas to point out that the San Antonio Spurs are now 36-6. Since there are about 8,583 media markets larger than San Antonio, you might not have known that there is an NBA team in that part of the world. But there is. And they are playing some dynamite basketball.

This concludes our public service announcement.

[BuckeyeRed27]

We interrupt the daily Carmelo Anthony and LeBron James dramas to point out that the San Antonio Spurs are now 36-6. Since there are about 8,583 media markets larger than San Antonio, you might not have known that there is an NBA team in that part of the world. But there is. And they are playing some dynamite basketball.

This concludes our public service announcement.

This is something that always has bothered me. San Antonio is not a small market. It is the 7th biggest city in the US. Yet somehow they get lumped in with the Cincinnati and Milwaukee's of the world despite being 5x as big.

End rant.

That said they are really good and should get more pub than they are right now.

[Slyder]

This is something that always has bothered me. San Antonio is not a small market. It is the 7th biggest city in the US. Yet somehow they get lumped in with the Cincinnati and Milwaukee's of the world despite being 5x as big.

End rant.

That said they are really good and should get more pub than they are right now.

Its just in the middle of nowhere Texas.

[Revering4Blue]

This is something that always has bothered me. San Antonio is not a small market. It is the 7th biggest city in the US. Yet somehow they get lumped in with the Cincinnati and Milwaukee's of the world despite being 5x as big.

End rant.

That said they are really good and should get more pub than they are right now.

Not exactly.

San Antonio ranks behind Cincy and Milwaukee in media market size, though I'm not sure if Austin is factored in or not.

http://www.proadvance.com/topmediamarkets.html

[Unassisted]

This is something that always has bothered me. San Antonio is not a small market. It is the 7th biggest city in the US. Yet somehow they get lumped in with the Cincinnati and Milwaukee's of the world despite being 5x as big.

End rant.
This vexes locals, too. :) Thing is, the population density outside the city limits falls off of a cliff in every direction but north. Hence the big-city ranking, small market size designation.

There are two outerbelts around San Antonio. The outer loop is a two-lane road with traffic lights on its south side and a 6 lane highway with busy interchanges on the north. The inner loop is 8-10 bustling lanes on the north side and 4 lanes that go through ranch land, AF bases and other acreage uses on the south side. Duncan has logged fewer minutes per game than in past seasons, and it's keeping his old legs and knees fresh.

Back on topic... the secret to the Spurs success this season has been remaining almost injury-free.

That may be due to having some new young talent that's carrying its weight when some combination of Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are having off nights offensively. 26 year old "rookie" Gary Neal has been a real find, pairing a terrific 3-point shot with solid contributions on the defensive end. Dejuan Blair has been able to keep other teams bigs from dominating the inside, despite being smaller than most of them. George Hill provides a burst of energy as the 6th man, spelling Parker and Ginobili as needed, while providing a burst of scoring.

Another factor has been that Ginobili and Parker spent their offseasons resting, rather than playing with their respective national teams. Both have seemed reinvigorated compared to years past and are consistently able to contribute for 30+ minutes a game.

[SandyD]

Go hornets! :)

[Boston Red]

Go hornets! :)

Love seeing my man David West lighting it up.

Unfortunately, my Jazz have fallen on hard times. Awful East coast road trip for them wrapped up today. They managed to lose to the Nets, Sixers and Wiz (as well as Boston) on an 0-4 swing. And they have to head to LA to face the Lakers before finally going home....to play the Spurs. Sounds like a six game losing streak to me.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Love seeing my man David West lighting it up.

Unfortunately, my Jazz have fallen on hard times. Awful East coast road trip for them wrapped up today. They managed to lose to the Nets, Sixers and Wiz (as well as Boston) on an 0-4 swing. And they have to head to LA to face the Lakers before finally going home....to play the Spurs. Sounds like a six game losing streak to me.

It's been rough. They have no offensive rhythm and seem to start every game slow. It's too hard to fight back every night. Jefferson and milsap need to step it up and the production from the 2 guard needs to exist.

[Revering4Blue]

Go hornets! :)


Sure, remove George Shinn from the situation and things instantly brighten up.

Let's hope that local conglomerate gains control soon.

Thanks to shrewd deals by the front office this past off-season, this is a very dangerous team.

[Revering4Blue]

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.


Donald Sterling To David Stern: 'I Would Fire You'

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/1/16/1938219/donald-sterling-david-stern-fired-clippers

[Revering4Blue]

Interesting Pacer Rumors floating around:

--The Pacers will acquire Anthony Randolph from NY for a future#1 pick. The Knicks want the pick to send to Denver in a proposed Carmelo deal.

--Coach Jim O'Brien will be sacked and replaced with Mike Brown.

--Former Blazer's GM Kevin Pritchard will assume the same duties in Indy.

--The Pacers are exploring the possibility of scheduling a handful of future games in Louisville.

What say you, Pacer fans?

[Kingspoint]

Go hornets! :)

Their "Defense" has been phenomel. I haven't seen a team become this good defensively, this fast,... ever in the 40 years I've been watching NBA games in person.

They are very impressive. They are easily the best team in the NBA right now.

[Kingspoint]

Interesting Pacer Rumors floating around:

--The Pacers will acquire Anthony Randolph from NY for a future#1 pick. The Knicks want the pick to send to Denver in a proposed Carmelo deal.

--Coach Jim O'Brien will be sacked and replaced with Mike Brown.

--Former Blazer's GM Kevin Pritchard will assume the same duties in Indy.

--The Pacers are exploring the possibility of scheduling a handful of future games in Louisville.

What say you, Pacer fans?

Tyler Hansbrough is a keeper, Darren Collison is a keeper, and Dunleavy's a keeper, but I don't see anyone else on the roster worth keeping.

Not a Pacers fan, but those are all really good moves. They look like a "D" league team right now (watched them last night). But, that would be a good start towards getting back to being an above .500 team every season.

Adding Anthony Randolph would give them a 4th player to add to those three I mentioned. Then, I'm sure that Kevin Pritchard would be able to add a couple of players on draft day through trades, even if they don't have a 1st Round pick. He should also be able to add a quality Free Agent.

So, what is Larry Bird? President?

[gilpdawg]

Tyler Hansbrough is a keeper, Darren Collison is a keeper, and Dunleavy's a keeper, but I don't see anyone else on the roster worth keeping.

Not a Pacers fan, but those are all really good moves. They look like a "D" league team right now (watched them last night). But, that would be a good start towards getting back to being an above .500 team every season.

Adding Anthony Randolph would give them a 4th player to add to those three I mentioned. Then, I'm sure that Kevin Pritchard would be able to add a couple of players on draft day through trades, even if they don't have a 1st Round pick. He should also be able to add a quality Free Agent.

So, what is Larry Bird? President?
Granger isn't a keeper?


Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

[Kingspoint]

Granger isn't a keeper?


Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

He's a shadow of his former self. He has no heart, no desire to work at things on a nightly basis. Way too inconsistent and not a player you'd want to count on as a key member of your team. Tonight's game is a typical example.

I forgot to add that Roy Hibbert is a "maybe" as a keeper, but he, too, just doesn't give the effort on a consistent basis. But, his potential is much better than Granger's. I'd let Granger be someone else's problem.

[Yachtzee]

This vexes locals, too. :) Thing is, the population density outside the city limits falls off of a cliff in every direction but north. Hence the big-city ranking, small market size designation.



That's the problem with city population rankings just about anywhere. Older cities like Cincinnati or Cleveland don't really have much room to grow because they're locked in by well-developed neighboring cities with substantial populations of their own, whereas places like San Antonio or Columbus have been able to grow because they've been able to annex more land to develop. Meanwhile, the area surrounding the city remains relatively undeveloped. That's why metropolitan area and media market is so important. Cincinnati may not have so many people living within the city limits anymore, but there are still a ton of people who live within a 1 hour commute. You could probably count Dayton and Lexington as part of the Cincinnati market if you wanted to, for sports purposes at least, considering how close they are.

[Razor Shines]

He's a shadow of his former self. He has no heart, no desire to work at things on a nightly basis. Way too inconsistent and not a player you'd want to count on as a key member of your team. Tonight's game is a typical example.

I forgot to add that Roy Hibbert is a "maybe" as a keeper, but he, too, just doesn't give the effort on a consistent basis. But, his potential is much better than Granger's. I'd let Granger be someone else's problem.

Huh? You think that Dunleavy is a keeper but not Granger? That doesn't even come close to making any sense. Also Rush is going to be a good player and so is Paul George who is a rookie.

I love Dunleavy. I like tall athletic shooters but I'm afraid Dunleavy doesn't score enough to make up for the fact that he's a pretty poor defender.

Granger guards the other teams best PF, or swing guard every night.

[BRM]

Huh? You think that Dunleavy is a keeper but not Granger? That doesn't even come close to making any sense. Also Rush is going to be a good player and so is Paul George who is a rookie.

I love Dunleavy. I like tall athletic shooters but I'm afraid Dunleavy doesn't score enough to make up for the fact that he's a pretty poor defender.

Granger guards the other teams best PF, or swing guard every night.

Agree on all those points for the most part. I like George and think he'll be a good player down the road. Dunleavy? I like his offensive game, he's a good shooter. Terrible defender, like you said. He's a guy I'd probably keep around but he'd be a better asset coming off the bench.

[Kingspoint]

Huh? You think that Dunleavy is a keeper but not Granger? That doesn't even come close to making any sense. Also Rush is going to be a good player and so is Paul George who is a rookie.

I love Dunleavy. I like tall athletic shooters but I'm afraid Dunleavy doesn't score enough to make up for the fact that he's a pretty poor defender.

Granger guards the other teams best PF, or swing guard every night.

Add Paul George as a Keeper, too. That makes about 6 keepers if they make that trade for Randolph. That would be a good group to work with, and to add another two players to.

Dunleavy would be a keeper as a good bench player. Granger would have to be a starter wherever he is, and he's not good enough to be a starter...not on a winning ballclub, and he wouldn't be a good bench player, either. Larry Bird doesn't know what he's doing when he thinks Granger is a keeper.

[Razor Shines]

Add Paul George as a Keeper, too. That makes about 6 keepers if they make that trade for Randolph. That would be a good group to work with, and to add another two players to.

Dunleavy would be a keeper as a good bench player. Granger would have to be a starter wherever he is, and he's not good enough to be a starter...not on a winning ballclub, and he wouldn't be a good bench player, either. Larry Bird doesn't know what he's doing when he thinks Granger is a keeper.

I have no idea where you're getting this on Granger. Granger is a very good NBAer and would be a starter on a lot of teams in the NBA.

But I guess I'm still waiting for the Blazers to even up that series with Phoenix. :D

[Kingspoint]

I have no idea where you're getting this on Granger. Granger is a very good NBAer and would be a starter on a lot of teams in the NBA.

But I guess I'm still waiting for the Blazers to even up that series with Phoenix. :D

I get it from watching the guy. He's just never going to be a starter for a winning team. He can be a starter for a losing team, no problem. But, that doesn't mean anything. He'll have spurts of being good, but too often his spurts are of someone who just doesn't know how to win.

Bird has assembled some good players to build around, but if he chooses to build around Granger, then he's going to make this team even worse than they are right now. They'll never be a .500 team with Granger as a starter, just like Portland was never going to win a playoff series building their team around Brandon Roy. Roy makes everyone else on the team around him worse. Without Roy, this "new look" Blazers have been able to develop and blossom. But, just like the "new look" Miami Heat, it's going to take this completely new style of Blazer Basketball at least 30 games of playing together in order to begin to find out who they are and be consistent as winners. Before Camby went down (out for 3-4 weeks, with another 3-6 weeks of him playing himself back into shape and strengthening his knee, so it's looking like the end of March before Camby will be ready to be Marcus Camby), the Blazers were about 14-6 without Brandon Roy. They've currently won 5 in a row for the first time all year, looking to make it six in a row tonight against the Kings.

Another 10 games in a row with Camby would have been just enough to put this team about 10 games above .500 and ready to make a push for the 5th playoff spot in the West. But, losing the best passer for big men in the league, the 4th best rebounder in the league and one of the best shot-blockers in the league without anyone on the roster to replace him (Pryzbilla can't jump as his knee surgeries and badly twisted ankle have him playing as a shell of his former self), has been the final blow in a long list of devastating injuries (began the season by losing their backup Power Forward and most physical player, Jeff Pendergraph, and then losing Oden again for the season, and then Roy played when he shouldn't have basically screwing the entire team's season, and then Pryzbilla's comeback was delayed a month before he had a major ankle sprain only to be out yet another month, and Batum and Fernandez have been injured all season along with Camby for much of it. Yet, through all of that, they're still looking to go to 26-20 tonight, with 6 in a row and 14 wins in their last 20 games. Obviously, it shouldn't last without any inside presence, as they're dog-tired right now. They should wear down. They have a brutal schedule coming up. From January 27th through February 27th they have a stretch where they play 6 of 7 games on the Road in a 12-game stretch, and that stretch is in the middle of games against Boston and San Antonio (then the 6 of 7 on the road), then New Orleans, Lakers, Denver and Atlanta. If they go 6-7 over those 13 games to remain 5 games over .500 on February 28th, then that would be a very good thing. After that, the team should begin to get healthy, and they can make their playoff push and go from there.

[Boston Red]

Go hornets! :)

David Freaking West comes through again tonight!

[Kingspoint]

Razor Shines, it his me last night what you were referencing to regarding the Suns/Blazers. OK, that was funny.

It is so hard to play NBA basketball without even a backup Center to put into the lineup, as Sacramento pounded the ball inside all night last night. FWIW, Larry Bird is much, much better than the Blazers' current puppet-on-a-string GM, Rich Cho. Cho stands for Chump, or Chimp, as in one who apes the look of most GM's around the league who are more worried about job security than making the team better and as a result, never ever take a chance to get anything done because they're more worried about being wrong than doing something that might be right. Geoff Petrie, GM of Sacramento, has been begging anyone to take Samuel Dalembert off of his hands all season long, and the Cho should have made that move 5 months ago when they lost Jeff Pendergraph for the season, 4 months ago, when it was obvious that Greg Oden and Joel Pryzbilla would both be out a month longer than expected, 3 months ago when they knew that Greg Oden would be lost for another season, 2 months ago when Camby sprained his ankle badly, 6 weeks ago when Pryzbilla got a high-ankle sprain, 4 weeks ago when Pryzbilla was still out, and one week ago when Camby hurt his knee and had to have surgery. Instead, Dalembert comes in last Thursday in 24 minutes against Portland, and grabs 15 points and 12 boards, while playing the best defensive basketball against LaMarcus Aldridge that anyone's played against him all year, leading his team to an overtime loss to Portland. Last night he does it again, completely dominating Aldridge causing the Power Forward to commit turnover after turnover, while missing shot after shot, while blocking shot after shot of Aldridges, and completely taking him out of his game, leading Sacramento to a rare win. Oddly, Dalembert only gets playing time when Cousins gets into foul trouble as the Coach of the Kings is an idiot and can't see who makes his team better. Cousins is talented, but he's so raw that he's the biggest reason they lose game after game. Cousins barely played last night because of foul trouble and it caused the Kings' Coach to use Dalembert on Aldridge for most of the game. But Cho's too much of an idiot to recognize the need for the Blazers and is too wimpy to go to Paul Allen and tell him what needs to be done. The Blazers' GM is a joke and they've been going downhill ever since they decided to jettison Kevin Pritchard. Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. Pritchard brought Camby over (and then signed him to a 2-year extension) for two scrubs named Steve Blake and Travis Outlaw. But, Pritchard's aggressiveness didn't play well with the politics involved in the Paul Allen/Vulcan Posse circle, and ultimately got him canned.

6-7 might be a pipe dream over the next 13 for the Blazers. 4-9 might be more realistic (and with last night's loss that will be 4-10).

Cho's answer was to sign a beanpole (210 pounds and 7', 3" wingspan) from the "D"-league yesterday, Chris Johnson. Nice job, dummy.

[Kingspoint]

David Freaking West comes through again tonight!

Best story of the year in the NBA. (the defense of the New Orleans' Hornets....I see they passed their "attendance clause" that will guarantee their stay in New Orleans through the 2014 season)

[Kingspoint]

Best story of the year in the NBA. (the defense of the New Orleans' Hornets....I see they passed their "attendance clause" that will guarantee their stay in New Orleans through the 2014 season)

On a side note to that story....

From Rotoworld via Yahoo Sports w/ Rotoworld comments:

David West plans to opt out of the $7.5 million owed to him in the final season of his contract, sources tell Yahoo's Adrian Wojnarowski.

If West does opt out, he will become an unrestricted free agent after this season. The Hornets are reportedly trying to get him signed to an extension prior to the Feb. 24 deadline, but Wojnarowski says that is unlikely. Losing West certainly wouldn't help attendance in New Orleans or convince Chris Paul to stay when he becomes a free agent in the summer of 2012.

[Boston Red]

West is the possibly the best veteran bargain in the NBA at his current salary. He'd have to be insane not to opt out unless the Hornets add a wagonload of cash in an extension.

[Unassisted]

Best story of the year in the NBA. (the defense of the New Orleans' Hornets...After being dismantled by the Hornets the other night, Gregg Popovich and Tim Duncan spoke glowingly of their opponent.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/mike_monroe/article/Hornets-defense-has-the-league-buzzing-977773.php#ixzz1C9QkwNAm (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/columnists/mike_monroe/article/Hornets-defense-has-the-league-buzzing-977773.php#ixzz1C9QkwNAm)


Tim Duncan swears the Hornets have been playing “the best basketball in this league the last 15 or 20 games.”

<snip>

“Physical, physical, well-executed defense,” Popovich said after former pupil Monty Williams’ team held the Spurs to 48 points through three quarters in Saturday’s 96-74 win that prompted Duncan’s praise.Both SA and NO are 16-4 in their last 20 games.

[Kingspoint]

Monty Williams was an assistant under Nate McMillan all five years of his Coaching career before being offered the job in New Orleans. He played parts of three seasons in San Antonio as a player, but he learned how to Coach, and Coach Defensively, under Nate McMillan. The article acts like he learned how to Coach from Greg Popovich, when there's nothing at all true to that theory.

The Blazers are suffering defensively after losing him (not that having no Center presence isn't helping, either, defensively). I'm very happy for Monty Williams. Everybody thought that he was being sacrificed to the wolves as Chris Paul wanted nothing to do with New Orleans. Monty Williams talked him into staying. It's amazing what Monty Williams has done for this team. He's easily Coach-of-the-Year.

[Kingspoint]

It sucks that New Orleans hasn't been on TNT once this season. They've only been on ESPN once, too, and that was against Cleveland. If you don't have NBA Pass, you're not seeing the Hornets this season (unless you're in New Orleans).

I don't think New Orleans was on TNT last year, either. Not sure, though. They're doing it again tonight.....holding a high-scoring team to a very low score (the Warriors).

[Razor Shines]

Monty Williams was an assistant under Nate McMillan all five years of his Coaching career before being offered the job in New Orleans. He played parts of three seasons in San Antonio as a player, but he learned how to Coach, and Coach Defensively, under Nate McMillan. The article acts like he learned how to Coach from Greg Popovich, when there's nothing at all true to that theory.

The Blazers are suffering defensively after losing him (not that having no Center presence isn't helping, either, defensively). I'm very happy for Monty Williams. Everybody thought that he was being sacrificed to the wolves as Chris Paul wanted nothing to do with New Orleans. Monty Williams talked him into staying. It's amazing what Monty Williams has done for this team. He's easily Coach-of-the-Year.

After he retired Pop asked him to sit in on the Spurs practices to decided if he wanted to pursue a coaching career. He was then an intern with the Spurs and then finally was given a full time staff position for one season with the Spurs. Safe to say he learned quite a bit about coaching from one of the all time greatest NBA coaches.

[Kingspoint]

After he retired Pop asked him to sit in on the Spurs practices to decided if he wanted to pursue a coaching career. He was then an intern with the Spurs and then finally was given a full time staff position for one season with the Spurs. Safe to say he learned quite a bit about coaching from one of the all time greatest NBA coaches.

He was never an assistant coach with the Spurs.

[Razor Shines]

He was never an assistant coach with the Spurs.

I didn't say he was. He technically wasn't but he was pretty close.


As Williams would later recall, he never saw himself going into coaching. As this 2005 NY Daily News profile tells it, Williams' goals were to "start a family, save enough money to live a comfortable life and open a dog kennel." But when he finished his playing career, Williams received a call from Gregg Popovich, who invited him to sit in on Spurs' practices to see if he wanted to pursue a coaching career.

Williams worked his way up in the Spurs' organization, moving from that temporary note-taking period to a team internship to a full time staff job in 2004. As Gregg Popovich said of Williams during the Spurs' championship season of '05, "He watches film, he meets with players, he's involved in player development and he puts practice plans together... He's doing it the right way."

A telling quote from Williams during the 2004-2005 season:


After Williams coached the Spurs' summer league team at the Rocky Mountain Revue in the summer, Portland hired him as a full-time assistant coach under Nate McMillan for the 2005-2006 season where Williams has served since. He's been noted for his player development ability, and particularly for his work with Martell Webster, Nicolas Batum and Travis Outlaw. From on OregonLive.com profile in 2008:

http://www.atthehive.com/2010/6/5/1502249/meet-your-new-coach-monty-williams

He was around Pop while he played. Pop contacted Williams and offered him a chance to see if he was interested in getting into coaching. I was simply responding to where you said:


The article acts like he learned how to Coach from Greg Popovich, when there's nothing at all true to that theory.

[NJReds]

Very enjoyable to watch the Knicks beat the Heat last night. It was like a playoff atmosphere. Amare's been better than I thought and Landry Fields was a find in the second round of the draft.

[Roy Tucker]

I've seen Kobe play a couple times this year and his knees are really hurting him. The Lakers are still formidable, but also beatable.

For a bunch of old guys, the Celtics are playing awfully well.

Orlando still has a bunch of mismatched parts.

[webbbj]

Melo to either the Bulls or Hornets. Even if its a 1 year deal I really really like the lineups either of these two could put out.

Hornets: Ariza, thornton, and a pick?
Bulls: Deng, Brewer, and a pick?

I think either trade is probably too much for half a year but i think it puts each as a legit top 5 team and even more legit title contender. And Chicago could have a chance to resign despite Melo's interest in NY. Its a big city w/ better talent.

Hell N.O. is going bankrupt and will probably end up losing CP3 may aswell just go allin right now. In the summer Melo and CP3 showed interest in playing together.

Neither probably happens but its fun to consider.

[reds44]

I've seen Kobe play a couple times this year and his knees are really hurting him. The Lakers are still formidable, but also beatable.

For a bunch of old guys, the Celtics are playing awfully well.

Orlando still has a bunch of mismatched parts.
His shooting percentage this year is 46.1%, for his career it's 45.5%. His numbers are right in line with his numbers since they acquired Gasol.

His knees may be hurting, but it's not showing on the court.

[reds44]

Melo to either the Bulls or Hornets. Even if its a 1 year deal I really really like the lineups either of these two could put out.

Hornets: Ariza, thornton, and a pick?
Bulls: Deng, Brewer, and a pick?

I think either trade is probably too much for half a year but i think it puts each as a legit top 5 team and even more legit title contender. And Chicago could have a chance to resign despite Melo's interest in NY. Its a big city w/ better talent.

Hell N.O. is going bankrupt and will probably end up losing CP3 may aswell just go allin right now. In the summer Melo and CP3 showed interest in playing together.

Neither probably happens but its fun to consider.
The Bulls aren't going to deal for Melo if he is a rental, and even if Melo would agree to an extension the Nuggets have said from the beginning it starts with Noah, and the Bulls won't trade Noah. Unless the Nuggets lower their asking price considerably, it won't happen.

The Bulls are also a top 5 team even if they don't have Melo. They are tied with the Heat for the 2nd best record in the east right now, and they have yet to have both Boozer and Noah healthy.

[Revering4Blue]

Should the NBA be cut back to 24 teams?

Fans yearn for the glory days of great rivalries like the Boston Celtics vs. the Los Angeles Lakers. Critics of the current NBA say there just aren't enough great players to fill out 30 teams.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2011/0129/Should-the-NBA-be-cut-back-to-24-teams

[reds1869]

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2011/0129/Should-the-NBA-be-cut-back-to-24-teams

Statements about the lack of talent to fill more teams crack me up. The talent pool is vastly expanded due to the overseas markets and today's college players are better than ever.

[Razor Shines]

Add Paul George as a Keeper, too. That makes about 6 keepers if they make that trade for Randolph. That would be a good group to work with, and to add another two players to.

Dunleavy would be a keeper as a good bench player. Granger would have to be a starter wherever he is, and he's not good enough to be a starter...not on a winning ballclub, and he wouldn't be a good bench player, either. Larry Bird doesn't know what he's doing when he thinks Granger is a keeper.

I'm watching the Pacers right now for the first time in about a month in half.

Granger does look more apathetic than I've ever seen him. I think a lot of that has to do with the coaching situation. O'Brien needs to go. It seems pretty clear that the Pacers aren't going to renew him and I think they should probably go ahead and let him go now. The players know he's half way out the door.

I agree that Bird doesn't know what he's doing, I think most people thought JOB was a bad hire at the time.

I still think Granger is a very good player.

Someone else I think is a keeper for the Pacers is Josh McRoberts, he's put on some weight and with his size and athleticism he's valuable. He's playing very well tonight, but he's only played 5 games this month. JOB's rotations don't really make any sense. McRoberts is pretty much the only guy doing anything offensively or defensively and JOB sits him out for so far 6 straight minutes while the Pacers' lead evaporated and the Bulls have gone up by 8.

JOB doesn't coach defense but we knew that when he was hired so this is largely on Bird.

[Razor Shines]

Someone else I think is a keeper for the Pacers is Josh McRoberts, he's put on some weight and with his size and athleticism he's valuable. He's playing very well tonight, but he's only played 5 games this month. JOB's rotations don't really make any sense. McRoberts is pretty much the only guy doing anything offensively or defensively and JOB sits him out for so far 6 straight minutes while the Pacers' lead evaporated and the Bulls have gone up by 8.

.

So he sat out for 10 straight game minutes during the 3rd and 4th quarters while the Pacers went from up 1 to down 13. He's the leading scorer and rebounder. The Bulls announcers couldn't figure out what was going on either.

They said "there must be some incentive clause in McRoberts' contract that O'Brien is supposed to keep him under."

Jim O'Brien is awful.

[Kingspoint]

I didn't say he was. He technically wasn't but he was pretty close.





http://www.atthehive.com/2010/6/5/1502249/meet-your-new-coach-monty-williams

He was around Pop while he played. Pop contacted Williams and offered him a chance to see if he was interested in getting into coaching. I was simply responding to where you said:

Between Popovich and McMillan, he got a great start to his coaching career. I like Monty Williams better than both of them.

[Kingspoint]

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2011/0129/Should-the-NBA-be-cut-back-to-24-teams

They should split the league into 3 Divisions like English Soccer.

The Top-8 teams from the 1st Division make the playoffs, the Top-5 from the 2nd Divison, and the Top-3 from the 3rd Division.

Seedings are:
1-1
1-2
1-3
1-4
1-5
2-1
1-6
2-2
1-7
2-3
1-8
3-1
2-4
3-2
2-5
3-3
(The 1st Division gets more higher seeds because they have a tougher schedule, and the same goes for the 2nd Division over the 3rd Division.)

When the season is over, a few teams rise or drop from one division to the next.

Bottom-3 from 1st Division and Top-3 from 2nd Divison swap with each other.
Bottom-4 from 2nd Division and Top-4 from 3rd Division swap with each other.

So, in two years you can climb from the 3rd Division to the 1st Division, if you're improving. (or, if you suck quickly, you'll drop out of the spotlight quickly, as you should).

By this setup, teams won't tank a season, as they'll always have something to play for through the end of the season. As of now, a lot of team's seasons are over before the season is 1/3rd over with, and the Major television viewing season hasn't even begun (after Football).

Each team plays 5 games against teams in their own Division (45 games).
Each team plays 2 games against teams from the others Divs (40 games).

85-game schedule. (reduce pre-season from 7-8 games to 4-5 games)

This would ensure that the elite teams are playing each other more often (30 times featuring matches between the Lakers-Heat-Magic-Spurs for example instead of the 17 times they'll play this season). That makes for more TV revenue, more fans (as there are better games more often on TV), and great games every night).

[Kingspoint]

I'm watching the Pacers right now for the first time in about a month in half.

Granger does look more apathetic than I've ever seen him. I think a lot of that has to do with the coaching situation. O'Brien needs to go. It seems pretty clear that the Pacers aren't going to renew him and I think they should probably go ahead and let him go now. The players know he's half way out the door.

I agree that Bird doesn't know what he's doing, I think most people thought JOB was a bad hire at the time.

I still think Granger is a very good player.

Someone else I think is a keeper for the Pacers is Josh McRoberts, he's put on some weight and with his size and athleticism he's valuable. He's playing very well tonight, but he's only played 5 games this month. JOB's rotations don't really make any sense. McRoberts is pretty much the only guy doing anything offensively or defensively and JOB sits him out for so far 6 straight minutes while the Pacers' lead evaporated and the Bulls have gone up by 8.

JOB doesn't coach defense but we knew that when he was hired so this is largely on Bird.

The Blazers traded for McRoberts when McRoberts was a rookie because he was Greg Oden's close friend (they'd known each other for years). McRoberts attacked the boards pretty well. He did well in the "D"-league, but I haven't really seen much of him the last two years. He's got size, and that's always a plus.

[improbus]

Not to side track the conversation, but I was watching an old slam dunk contest from the mid-90's on NBA TV, saw Isaiah Rider, and something dawned on me. Perhaps the reason I'm drawn to the NBA is that it is really the only major professional sport in which the players personality is shown directly in their game. MLB doesn't have much opportunity for personality, the NFL is too regimented for much personality to come out during the actual play of the game (after the play is something different), and hockey players don't have much personailty in general (nice guys but not terribly interesting). But, you know everything you'll ever need to know about an NBA guy from watching him play.

JR Smith: Questionable decision maker, frustrating brilliant.
Baron Davis: Needs to be externally motivated, front runner.
Kobe: Cold, calculating, methodical.

Think about sme guys from the past.
Charles Oakley: Enforcer on and off the court.
Barkley: Amazing but fundamentally flawed.
Ricky Davis: See JR Smith

[Kingspoint]

Not to side track the conversation, but I was watching an old slam dunk contest from the mid-90's on NBA TV, saw Isaiah Rider, and something dawned on me. Perhaps the reason I'm drawn to the NBA is that it is really the only major professional sport in which the players personality is shown directly in their game. MLB doesn't have much opportunity for personality, the NFL is too regimented for much personality to come out during the actual play of the game (after the play is something different), and hockey players don't have much personailty in general (nice guys but not terribly interesting). But, you know everything you'll ever need to know about an NBA guy from watching him play.

JR Smith: Questionable decision maker, frustrating brilliant.
Baron Davis: Needs to be externally motivated, front runner.
Kobe: Cold, calculating, methodical.

Think about sme guys from the past.
Charles Oakley: Enforcer on and off the court.
Barkley: Amazing but fundamentally flawed.
Ricky Davis: See JR Smith

You hit on a huge point. The personalities of the NBA players are exhibited much more than other sports. Where that draws you towards them, I find that it draws more people away from the League, in general. Isaiah Rider is the perfect example. A guy with a tremendous amount of talent, but he lost 10 fans to the NBA for every one he drew in because of his personality.

It's another reason though why I think they should split the league into the 3 Division Levels. The personalities of the best teams, which are usually the best players, will be showcased twice as much as they are right now. It's clearly the formula that David Stern believes (giving star treatment to certain players where they get away with fouling other players while they go to the line every time a missed shot doesn't go in whether they are fouled or not) works best for the NBA. Along with the NFL this off-season, there may also be a lockout in the NBA this upcoming off-season. Unlike the NFL's extremely weak player's union, the NBA's is pretty strong and may end up holding out into regular season games next season.

I don't think David Stern knows what the hell he's doing. He puts too many eggs into the basket of "star players", while allowing the quality of the play deteriorate year after year after year, going on two-plus decades now. The only fans who show up to NBA games now are band-wagon jumpers when their city is doing really well. NBA cities who aren't doing extremely well can barely get half of the seats filled on a regular basis (never mind how many tickets are sold as that's often a false number, and you've got to look at who's walking through the gate). Also, many teams, Atlanta for example, can't fill half their seats even when they have a good product. Other cities are constantly losing teams. Once proud franchises (the Sacramento Kings and the Seattle Supersonics) are ruined. This is because the "star players" became bigger than the game, while the majority of the players (the San Antonio Spurs being an exception) are self-centered, rude, ungrateful jerks.

David Stern has ruined the game for most people "who are willing and able" to purchase season tickets. And, as the tried-and-true business formula states, it's 10 times harder to add a new client than it is to keep one. Stern has never understood that formula as he's year after year since he took over as Commissioner alienated too many clients from the NBA to the detriment of the league as a whole. They're going to become the first of the "Big-3" sports to downgrade. A Forbes article came out recently speaking about franchises, and they mentioned (they're guessing, of course, as the true numbers aren't available) that this last year was the first year in 10 years that the Portland Trailblazers didn't lose money. Of course that's Paul Allen, who's never operated a business in his life that hasn't lost money. Allen is clueless when it comes to business, but most owners in the NBA do not have the billions of dollars that Paul Allen has in order to survive astronomical losses every year. They don't have the revenue-sharing that the NFL has, nor is the game as strong of a product as baseball is. It's inevitable that more and more cities will lose their franchises, and there won't be as many cities interested in joining this, "what I call", joke of a league. They had to draw a billionaire from Russia in order to get someone to buy the Nets, and this guy ends up telling Carmelo to go screw himself. These players are not "likable", nor is David Stern far-sighted or understanding of "who" has the money to purchase season tickets and keep them for 10 to 20+ years.

[Revering4Blue]

I'm watching the Pacers right now for the first time in about a month in half.

Granger does look more apathetic than I've ever seen him. I think a lot of that has to do with the coaching situation. O'Brien needs to go. It seems pretty clear that the Pacers aren't going to renew him and I think they should probably go ahead and let him go now. The players know he's half way out the door.

I agree that Bird doesn't know what he's doing, I think most people thought JOB was a bad hire at the time.

I still think Granger is a very good player.

Someone else I think is a keeper for the Pacers is Josh McRoberts, he's put on some weight and with his size and athleticism he's valuable. He's playing very well tonight, but he's only played 5 games this month. JOB's rotations don't really make any sense. McRoberts is pretty much the only guy doing anything offensively or defensively and JOB sits him out for so far 6 straight minutes while the Pacers' lead evaporated and the Bulls have gone up by 8.

JOB doesn't coach defense but we knew that when he was hired so this is largely on Bird.

Actually, the Pacers are ranked higher defensively (17) than offensively (18)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byteam?cat1=Total&cat2=opponent&conference=NBA&year=season_2010

The offensive issues are clearly tied to JOB and his substitution patterns, which, as you stated, border on the psychedelic. The defensive, though not the matador type we've witnessed during the JOB era, isn't all that great, either.

Why don't McRoberts and Dahntay Jones don't see the floor more often?

The JOB era must end.

Bring on Mike Brown.

No, not this Mike Brown.:D

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcgakuRBk-WmqTkt6hdKqzXiFuj6oLtGlx6tmD1P2jB53jYrcV

[Cedric]

Not to side track the conversation, but I was watching an old slam dunk contest from the mid-90's on NBA TV, saw Isaiah Rider, and something dawned on me. Perhaps the reason I'm drawn to the NBA is that it is really the only major professional sport in which the players personality is shown directly in their game. MLB doesn't have much opportunity for personality, the NFL is too regimented for much personality to come out during the actual play of the game (after the play is something different), and hockey players don't have much personailty in general (nice guys but not terribly interesting). But, you know everything you'll ever need to know about an NBA guy from watching him play.

JR Smith: Questionable decision maker, frustrating brilliant.
Baron Davis: Needs to be externally motivated, front runner.
Kobe: Cold, calculating, methodical.

Think about sme guys from the past.
Charles Oakley: Enforcer on and off the court.
Barkley: Amazing but fundamentally flawed.
Ricky Davis: See JR Smith

That is also the same exact reason a ton of people hate the sport.

[improbus]

You hit on a huge point. The personalities of the NBA players are exhibited much more than other sports. Where that draws you towards them, I find that it draws more people away from the League, in general. Isaiah Rider is the perfect example. A guy with a tremendous amount of talent, but he lost 10 fans to the NBA for every one he drew in because of his personality.
But, I think I view sports differently than others. I watch sports for the fun of it, without imposing the ethical/inspirational side that so many people seem to place upon sports. Touchdown celebrations, the crazier the better. Showman's home run trots, the more outlandish the better. I revel in the ridiculous.

But, with all of that said, it is sad that people still attack the NBA for its "poor" image from the 90's. The current crop of stars is infinitely more likeable and personable than maybe any other sport (especially the NFL, whose fan base is probably the most short sighted and hypocritical of any sport in the separation of their exspectations of players, the players actual behavior on the field, and their continued support.) Hopefully, people come around and start to see that the NBA's product has probably never been better on and off the court (and yes, I'm even including the hallowed 1980's).

[Kingspoint]

So he sat out for 10 straight game minutes during the 3rd and 4th quarters while the Pacers went from up 1 to down 13. He's the leading scorer and rebounder. The Bulls announcers couldn't figure out what was going on either.

They said "there must be some incentive clause in McRoberts' contract that O'Brien is supposed to keep him under."

Jim O'Brien is awful.

From Rotoworld via the Indianapolis Star w/ Rotoworld comments:

Coach Jim O'Brien said that Josh McRoberts barely played in the fourth quarter Saturday because of defensive matchups.

McRoberts scored 20 points in the first three quarters and then watched as the Bulls pulled away from Jeff Foster and the Pacers in the fourth. "Jeff's our toughest big man, by far," O'Brien said. "They were very small, and (McRoberts) can't guard Deng."



Roy Hibbert was benched by Jim O'Brien on Saturday for reasons unknown, after blocking five shots to go with five rebounds, two assists, and two points on 1-of-5 shooting in 21 minutes on Saturday.

Sure, the shooting was bad, but he was the only Pacer with a positive +/- (+4) and appeared to play well by most observers. The takeaway with Hibbert is pretty simple at this point. Until Obie gets pressure from above for his job, then Hibbert is going to be screwed with incessantly.

[Kingspoint]

But, I think I view sports differently than others. I watch sports for the fun of it, without imposing the ethical/inspirational side that so many people seem to place upon sports. Touchdown celebrations, the crazier the better. Showman's home run trots, the more outlandish the better. I revel in the ridiculous.

But, with all of that said, it is sad that people still attack the NBA for its "poor" image from the 90's. The current crop of stars is infinitely more likeable and personable than maybe any other sport (especially the NFL, whose fan base is probably the most short sighted and hypocritical of any sport in the separation of their exspectations of players, the players actual behavior on the field, and their continued support.) Hopefully, people come around and start to see that the NBA's product has probably never been better on and off the court (and yes, I'm even including the hallowed 1980's).

That's easier said and done if you're not shelling out the dough for season tickets year after year. I'm guessing you've not been an NBA season ticket holder for more than five years out of the last 30 years. It's these people (actually those who are willing to do it for 15+ of the last 30 years...those who only do it for five years are just the band-wagon jumpers who got on board when their team did really well and then had a mass exodus as soon as they weren't great again) who are the security and backbone of the NBA franchises.

[Revering4Blue]

Larry Bird doesn't know what he's doing when he thinks Granger is a keeper.

A keeper? Yes.

An untouchable? No way.

Bird and David Norway, who is actually the pacers GM, will deal Granger in an instant if the right deal materializes, especially if those shunned by Carmelo Anthony--Dallas, New jersey, Portland-- continue to call.

We'll see.

[Razor Shines]

From Rotoworld via the Indianapolis Star w/ Rotoworld comments:

Coach Jim O'Brien said that Josh McRoberts barely played in the fourth quarter Saturday because of defensive matchups.

McRoberts scored 20 points in the first three quarters and then watched as the Bulls pulled away from Jeff Foster and the Pacers in the fourth. "Jeff's our toughest big man, by far," O'Brien said. "They were very small, and (McRoberts) can't guard Deng."



Roy Hibbert was benched by Jim O'Brien on Saturday for reasons unknown, after blocking five shots to go with five rebounds, two assists, and two points on 1-of-5 shooting in 21 minutes on Saturday.

Sure, the shooting was bad, but he was the only Pacer with a positive +/- (+4) and appeared to play well by most observers. The takeaway with Hibbert is pretty simple at this point. Until Obie gets pressure from above for his job, then Hibbert is going to be screwed with incessantly.
I watched the game I have no idea what O'Brien was seeing. McRoberts was the leading rebounder was very active on defense and was shooting 75% from the field, including 2 of 3 from 3pt land.

[Revering4Blue]

I've watched several pacers games I have no idea what O'Brien was seeing.

Fixed that for you.:D

[Kingspoint]

A keeper? Yes.

An untouchable? No way.

Bird and David Norway, who is actually the pacers GM, will deal Granger in an instant if the right deal materializes, especially if those shunned by Carmelo Anthony--Dallas, New jersey, Portland-- continue to call.

We'll see.

Players like Granger are a dime-a-dozen. They play well "when they really, really feel like it", but most of the time their "energy" is turned off. They aren't "professional". While Portland has a GM who currently doesn't know what he's doing in Rich Cho, Portland is not a destination for Granger and they were never interested in Carmelo Anthony, mainly because they knew he'd never come here long-term.

If I were a player, I wouldn't want to come to Portland, as you'll end up tearing your ACL or MCL. Clearly, there's something wrong with the way they prepare their players and train them for the strenuous up-and-down play of the NBA. Most of their injuries have been non-contact, which shows that they aren't just fluke accidents, but related to the body not being prepared properly. They are known for coddling their players and they've had the same training group since the mid-90's. The team won't talk about it, and are always supporting their trainers, but it looks like they're finally starting to grasp reality as they're going out for second opinions outside of their own medical staff more often now.

Going to Portland is like going to the Cleveland Browns where you had a very good chance to get a staff infection. The Bengals are no better. It's not a coincidence how they routinely mis-diagnose injuries on the Bengals. The Bengals medical staff should all be fired and replaced with more competent people. But, then that's just a by-product of Mike Brown.

[Revering4Blue]

But, with all of that said, it is sad that people still attack the NBA for its "poor" image from the 90's. The current crop of stars is infinitely more likeable and personable than maybe any other sport (especially the NFL, whose fan base is probably the most short sighted and hypocritical of any sport in the separation of their exspectations of players, the players actual behavior on the field, and their continued support.)

Right on.

[Kingspoint]

Right on.

It's certainly true when it comes to the way the NFL coddles the Pittsburgh Steelers.

It's not a coincidence that as soon as Obama was elected that a "Rooney" was named to an Ambassador post overseas.

[improbus]

That's easier said and done if you're not shelling out the dough for season tickets year after year. I'm guessing you've not been an NBA season ticket holder for more than five years out of the last 30 years. It's these people (actually those who are willing to do it for 15+ of the last 30 years...those who only do it for five years are just the band-wagon jumpers who got on board when their team did really well and then had a mass exodus as soon as they weren't great again) who are the security and backbone of the NBA franchises.
I would never have the money for that (and don't live in an NBA city).

I agree with your assesment of the need for the season ticket holders (upper middle to upper class white guys usually), but people are somehow able to separate the conduct of Roethlisberger/Vick/half of the Bengals from their season ticket payments.

As a side note to the conversation, I wonder how the "image" of the league would improve if someone of the stature/playing ability of Wade/LeBron/Howard was white and American born. It would be a really interesting to see how the league was marketed differently.

[Kingspoint]

As a side note to the conversation, I wonder how the "image" of the league would improve if someone of the stature/playing ability of Wade/LeBron/Howard was white and American born. It would be a really interesting to see how the league was marketed differently.I think Stern would do it the same way.

The league was just hanging on as a "new league", with television revenue just beginning to bring in some money during the 1970's, when three guys, Julius Erving in the 1976-77 season, and the rest of the ABA stars (Artis Gilmore, Maurice Lucas, etc.), and then Larry Bird and Magic Johnson of the '80-'81 season (or the '79-'80 season, I'm not sure) vaulted the league into sky-rocketing revenues. The Players Union was strong with Billy Hunter in charge, and the league introduced a team salary cap, the first in sports, with about 42% of the league revenue going to the players. Each new CBA it's gone up to where it's about 54% now. I might be off a couple of points on the first number, but I do believe it's 54% now. I'm just doing this from memory, so it could certainly be off a bit.

Anyway, Stern fell into a false understanding that "stars" drive the league because of Bird, Johnson and Irving, when it was the quality of the game.....the high-flying West Coast style of Offense (Denver, Dallas, Portland, Los Angeles Lakers, Golden State, Seattle) versus the great-passing, tough inside game of the East Coast (Boston, Indiana, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia was high-flying up-and-down though as was Atlanta once Dominique arrived). David Stern changed the rules to where "star players" had an easier time doing one-on-one isolations along with an ability to do their moves without a defender bodying them. The game got soft with almost all of the physical play and toughness being removed. It slowed down too much and became boring to watch for most people.

White people don't watch a sport or not watch a sport because of race, or nobody would be buying football tickets or baseball tickets, as whites are a minority in both of those sports.

Like food in a restaurant or an automobile out of Detroit, all people are going to put out the dough because of the quality of the product, all other factors being secondary.

[Kingspoint]

Actually, the Pacers are ranked higher defensively (17) than offensively (18)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byteam?cat1=Total&cat2=opponent&conference=NBA&year=season_2010


I looked at that link and the Pacers are ranked 8th Defensively in opponents' Field Goal percentage, which I feel is the best single "simple" statistic for measuring a team's defensive abilities as it ties directly to a team's ability to make the other team take more difficult shots. That "17th" ranking is just points per game, which is only an indication of "pace" and really doesn't have much to do with Defense. Kind of like Total Rebounds doesn't say much about a teams' ability to Rebound but more about how many shots are being taken by both teams, but "Rebound Differential" does show a team's Rebound "advantage" as they are then being compared to their opponent's ability to go after the same missed shots.

So, as you say, with a Defense that good, they should be 10 games above .500.

When you see who lead that stat, it's the elite teams:

1. Chicago Bulls
2. Miami Heat
3. Boston Celtics
4. Los Angeles Lakers
5. New Orleans Hornets
6. Orlando Magic
7. Milwaukee Bucks

8. Indiana Pacers

9. Charlotte Bobcats
10. Philadelphia 76ers

Notice that 8 of the top 10 teams are all in the East? There's no Defense being played in the West. Notice that the Oklahoma City Thunder are ranked 22nd. They're still too young to play Defense properly. Durant has an amazing ability to win games in the 4th Quarter, but their lack of Defense, especially interior Defense, will prevent them from winning an NBA title this year. If they made the Finals, they'd get swept in 4 games. The Eastern Conference playoffs should be really good this year, even though only Miami, Chicago, Orlando, Boston and Atlanta have records above .500.

[Kingspoint]

But, with all of that said, it is sad that people still attack the NBA for its "poor" image from the 90's. The current crop of stars is infinitely more likeable and personable than maybe any other sport (especially the NFL, whose fan base is probably the most short sighted and hypocritical of any sport in the separation of their exspectations of players, the players actual behavior on the field, and their continued support.) Hopefully, people come around and start to see that the NBA's product has probably never been better on and off the court (and yes, I'm even including the hallowed 1980's).

That's why I mentioned the business adage of "it's 10 times more expensive (I used the word harder, but it's actually, "expensive") to win a new customer than to retain a current one". You can change. You can do things right for a long time. But, it takes a long time to win some of them back and many of them you'll never win back. Chevrolet is a great example of that. They've been the second best manufacturer of automobiles (behind Honda) for the last 10 years. But, they did things so badly for so long (mid-70's to late 90's), that they are just now getting back the people that they lost. Now the same thing is happening to Toyota, who sat on their laurels and have been making worse products for the last 7-8 years compared to their peers. They're losing customers in droves and they'll lose them for a long time, as it will take a while to win them back, too.

[improbus]

White people don't watch a sport or not watch a sport because of race, or nobody would be buying football tickets or baseball tickets, as whites are a minority in both of those sports.
They may not turn a sport "on" because it has white superstars, but they might turn it "off" without them. Why is it that Dan Marino is in the "greatest of all time" conversation but Warren Moon isn't? Imagine the NFL lost Manning/Brady/Brees and they had to market equally talented minority players. Would the public perception of the league change? I say yes. Maybe not dramatically, but it would. There is a dramatic difference between being a "minority" in a sport and a "novelty".

Now, I'm not saying that people's veiwing habits are inherintly racist (although I have family members that I would say have those biases behind their veiwership choices). But, people tend to root for and take interest in people that look like them (see the love for Omri Casspi from the Israeli/Jeiwsh community.)

[Kingspoint]

They may not turn a sport "on" because it has white superstars, but they might turn it "off" without them. Why is it that Dan Marino is in the "greatest of all time" conversation but Warren Moon isn't?
That's just not true at all. White people, no more than any other sports fan from any other race is going to turn off a television because of what race the participant is.

I think it's because Warren Moon waited too long to join the NFL. I agree with you about Warren Moon, and I said so as much the day that Bratkowski was hired by the Bengals. I yelled at the top of my lungs that Bratkowski sucked as an Offensive Coordinator the day the Bengals got him and the only reason he looked good had everything to do with Warren Moon. And, that was an aging Warren Moon. Warren Moon is one of the greatest of all time, but so is Dan Marino. Marino got the public image because he took the Dolphins to the Super Bowl during his Rookie season. That effort, along with continued 4th Quarter comebacks throughout his career (remember the one in October of 1995 in Cincinnati where he methodically took apart the Bengals Defense to lead his team from a 24-21 deficit to a 28-24 victory with a brillian 2-minute drive to end the game? He did it with super-tight coverage by the Bengals' Defensive backs, but there was nothing they could do about it.) allowed him to sustain this "superstar" status, though he was never able to repeat his rookie performance and guide his team back to the Super Bowl. Warren Moon couldn't do it either, though. Many great Quarterbacks couldn't do it.

[Kingspoint]

Now, I'm not saying that people's veiwing habits are inherintly racist (although I have family members that I would say have those biases behind their veiwership choices). But, people tend to root for and take interest in people that look like them (see the love for Omri Casspi from the Israeli/Jeiwsh community.)

People can certainly "rally" behind a "lone" racial member of a team, like the "only white guy on a basketball team" or the Chinese player, Hispanic player, or player of any other player who "stands out" in a group. But, similarly, people of all races "rally" behind a player for many other reasons because they "stand out".

I'm not going to say that it's 100% true that race isn't a factor, because I'm sure that it is with some people, but generally and for the extreme majority of white people in today's United States, nobody cares as long as they can win games. But, then winning games isn't what we were really talking about, was it? It was, are people willing to shell out the money for season tickets when they're not winning games and does race then play a factor. I really don't think that it does. I still think it's about "effort", off-the-court behavior and community connection (not the phoney, "build a house for the under-privileged" type of NBA charity work, but real community connection where they know their neighbors, run into people while they're out and about and become a part of the community in a friendly way just as you or I go about our lives). People, white people with money to buy season tickets as we're discussing here, will respond positively to this and keep their tickets through bad times. It's certainly the way it was here in Portland as players such as Kenny Carr, Maurice Lucas, Lloyd Neal, Darnell Valentine, Michael Holton, Terry Porter, Clyde Drexler, Buck Williams, Kevin Duckworth, Steve Jones, and many, many others "lived" here and were/are deeply loved as persons first, players second. You can't say that about any of the "JailBlazers". It was the opposite, as they were abhorred as persons first, and tolerated as players second, only while they were winning, but that was only by the band-wagon jumpers, as people who had season tickets for 20, 25, 30 years left in droves, many not because of the "JailBlazers", but because of Paul Allen and the way he ran things, 5-7 years before the "JailBlazers" started showing up.

[Kingspoint]

They should split the league into 3 Divisions like English Soccer.

The Top-8 teams from the 1st Division make the playoffs, the Top-5 from the 2nd Divison, and the Top-3 from the 3rd Division.

Seedings are:
1-1
1-2
1-3
1-4
1-5
2-1
1-6
2-2
1-7
2-3
1-8
3-1
2-4
3-2
2-5
3-3
(The 1st Division gets more higher seeds because they have a tougher schedule, and the same goes for the 2nd Division over the 3rd Division.)

When the season is over, a few teams rise or drop from one division to the next.

Bottom-3 from 1st Division and Top-3 from 2nd Divison swap with each other.
Bottom-4 from 2nd Division and Top-4 from 3rd Division swap with each other.

So, in two years you can climb from the 3rd Division to the 1st Division, if you're improving. (or, if you suck quickly, you'll drop out of the spotlight quickly, as you should).

By this setup, teams won't tank a season, as they'll always have something to play for through the end of the season. As of now, a lot of team's seasons are over before the season is 1/3rd over with, and the Major television viewing season hasn't even begun (after Football).

Each team plays 5 games against teams in their own Division (45 games).
Each team plays 2 games against teams from the others Divs (40 games).

85-game schedule. (reduce pre-season from 7-8 games to 4-5 games)

This would ensure that the elite teams are playing each other more often (30 times featuring matches between the Lakers-Heat-Magic-Spurs for example instead of the 17 times they'll play this season). That makes for more TV revenue, more fans (as there are better games more often on TV), and great games every night).

The only way to do it the first year would be to use winning percentage. The next two years would balance the league out. I'll list what this year's Divisions would be based on last year's standings and what the 2011-2012 year might look like if the season ended today based on the new "Division" Groups. Of course they wouldn't have these records this season as the teams would have all played Division-heavy schedules (5 games against every team in their own Division).

The "New" 2010-2011 NBA Divisions (and their 2009-2010 winning percentage):

FIRST DIVISION

Cleveland Cavaliers.........(.744)
Orlando Magic................(.720)
Los Angeles Lakers..........(.695)
Dallas Mavericks.............(.671)
Phoenix Suns.................(.659)
Atlanta Hawks................(.646)
Denver Nuggets..............(.646)
Utah Jazz......................(.646)
Boston Celtics................(.610)
Portland Trailblazers........(.610)

Boston, Portland, San Antonio and Oklahoma City had identical .610 winning percentages. I used as a tie-breaker their head-to-head winning percentages collectively against each of the other three opponents. Both Boston and Portland were .667 against the other three teams with Boston sweeping the two games against Portland (Portland swept San Antonio in three games and took 3 of 4 from Oklahoma City). San Antonio was .444 against the other three teams and Oklahoma City was .300 against them losing 3 of 4 to both Portland and San Antonio while splitting two games against Boston. Those "elite" winning percentages won't occur any more as Cleveland and Orlando would have had to play each of these teams 5 time each where Cleveland was .652 against them last year and Orlando was .583 against them. They wouldn't be sniffing .744 and .720 winning percentages. The worst teams would also have much worse records, possibly sub-.500 records as 45 of the 85 regular season games would be against this FIRST DIVISION.


SECOND DIVISION

San Antonio Spurs...........(.610)
Oklahoma City Thunder.....(.610)
Miami Heat.....................(.573)
Milwaukee Bucks.............(.561)
Charlotte Bobcats............(.537)
Houston Rockets..............(.512)
Chicago Bulls...................(.500)
Memphis Grizzlies..............(.488)
Toronto Raptors...............(.488)
New Orleans Hornets.........(.451)


THIRD DIVISION

Indiana Pacers..................(.390)
Los Angeles Clippers...........(.354)
New York Knicks................(.354)
Detroit Pistons..................(.329)
Philadelphia 76ers..............(.329)
Golden State Warriors.........(.317)
Washington Wizards...........(.317)
Sacramento Kings..............(.305)
Minnesota Timberwolves.....(.183)
New Jersey Nets................(.146)

With the Division changes, these horrible teams aren't going to have these horrible records as they'll play 5 games against each other every year. Somebody has to win. Teams and players will gain confidence from winning. Fans will see more victories at home games and thus have a good reason for attending games. There's nothing worse than getting yourself to go attend a game where you pretty much know that your home team is going to lose, Bengals' fans being an exception (I have no idea why they bother to show up). The increased home attendance by the THIRD DIVISION will maintain a larger fanbase, and each City/Team has something legitimate to play for by finishing in the Top-4 of the Division so they can move up to the next Division (the old carrot theory), or the Top-3 and reaching this year's playoffs as a reward for the effort they put in for the season (along with moving up to the next level next season). Albeit, they don't get too rewarded for their efforts for this season as the Top-3 teams from this division get the 12th, 14th, and 16th seeds respectively, but it's playoff experience for not only the players, but for the City, and anything can happen. This format will only increase the quality of the game along with increase fan attendance in the poorer markets.

--------------------------------------------

The "New" 2010-2011 NBA Divisions (and their 2010-2011 winning percentage as of January 29th). If the season ended today, the teams that would switch Divisions are highlighted in blue and red and the teams that would make the playoffs are in Bold and the HOME PLAYOFF TEAMS are CAPITALIZED AND BOLD.:

FIRST DIVISION

BOSTON CELTICS...............(.761)
LOS ANGELES LAKERS.........(.702)
DALLAS MAVERICKS...........(.674)
ORLANDO MAGIC...............(.638)
ATLANTA HAWKS...............(.625)
DENVER NUGGETS..............(.609)
Utah Jazz..........................(.596)
Portland Trailblazers..........(.532)
Phoenix Suns.......................(.467)
Cleveland Cavaliers...............(.174)

Naturally, none of these records would be the same for any of these teams in any of these Divisions. This would be the first year of the "New" Divison play, so this is also the first year where the teams would properly place themselves in the Divison they belong. Cleveland would fall quickly to the THIRD DIVISION. Miami and San Antonio would advance to the FIRST DIVISION. Cleveland, Phoenix and Portland would fall to the SECOND DIVISION. And, Chicago, New Orleans and Oklahoma would have to fight to see who gets that last spot and move up to the FIRST DIVISION next year and who has to try to do it the year after. Nobody thought that the Hornets would be this good, and Oklahoma is a young and rising team along with the Bulls. Also, Miami pulled off the coup-of-the-century to be what they are. You look at the Clippers and Knicks and they, also, are rising teams, so they would get rewarded with a playoff appearance and a jump to the next division the following year. A team ALWAYS wants to be in a higher division because there are better playoff seedings in each higher division with 6 teams getting 1st Round home playoff seedings in the FIRST DIVISION and none in the THIRD DIVISION, while there's more playoff teams period in each higher division.


SECOND DIVISION

SAN ANTONIO SPURS...........(.851)
CHICAGO BULLS.................(.702)
Miami Heat........................(.696)
Oklahoma City Thunder.......(.652)
New Orleans Hornets..........(.646)
Memphis Grizzlies...................(.500)
Houston Rockets....................(.449)
Charlotte Bobcats..................(.435)
Milwaukee Bucks...................(.422)
Toronto Raptors....................(.271)


THIRD DIVISION

New York Knicks................(.522)
Philadelphia 76ers.............(.435)
Golden State Warriors........(.413)
Los Angeles Clippers..............(.391)
Indiana Pacers.....................(.386)
Detroit Pistons.....................(.362)
New Jersey Nets...................(.292)
Washington Wizards..............(.283)
Sacramento Kings.................(.267)
Minnesota Timberwolves........(.234)

These horrible records just wouldn't be here. Why should anyone go see any of these teams, many of whom lose game after game, year after year. There's just very little hope. They're in the lottery every year and they still don't win. There's a stench of losing that permeates from the franchises and it carries over to the players, the coaches, the owners, and the fans. Season-ticket holders have to have hope. It's all about hope. It's hope that "this is the year" that gets them to renew again. Nothing breeds hope more than winning games with visible growth. Visible growth is finishing in the Top-4 of a 10-team Division with advancement to the next division. It's likely that a 3rd place team is winning 70% (16-7) of it's home games instead of the 57% (13-10) that these Golden State Warriors are winning. These fans would be going to the arena "expecting" a win rather than "hoping" for a win. There's a big difference with walk-up tickets under that scenario.

[Kingspoint]

I see O'Brien just goT fired:

http://nba-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/27308179


A little more than a week ago, we noted some rumblings that changes were in store for the Indiana Pacers, as coach Jim O'Brien and GM David Morway were likely going to be replaced at the end of the season, with President Larry Bird's future up in the air as well.

The Indianapolis Star reports that Pacers assistant Frank Vogel is "expected to coach the team for the remainder of the season."

[improbus]

That's just not true at all. White people, no more than any other sports fan from any other race is going to turn off a television because of what race the participant is.
Come to one of my family gatherings, then turn on an NBA game and try to think any other thought. It would be very difficult. They might not use outright racial slurs, but you will hear alot of coded language.

Here is what I find ironic. Those same family members who were turned off by the 1990's NBA (w/ it's embracing of black/hip hop culture) and that era's thuggish/low scoring/uninteresting offense were huge fans of Woody Hayes' brand of football and pined for the good old days when "men were men". What is the difference?

[improbus]

I see O'Brien just go fired:

http://nba-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/27308179


A little more than a week ago, we noted some rumblings that changes were in store for the Indiana Pacers, as coach Jim O'Brien and GM David Morway were likely going to be replaced at the end of the season, with President Larry Bird's future up in the air as well.

The Indianapolis Star reports that Pacers assistant Frank Vogel is "expected to coach the team for the remainder of the season."
I guess Larry Bird is a RedsZone reader:)

[Razor Shines]

I see O'Brien just go fired:

http://nba-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/27308179


A little more than a week ago, we noted some rumblings that changes were in store for the Indiana Pacers, as coach Jim O'Brien and GM David Morway were likely going to be replaced at the end of the season, with President Larry Bird's future up in the air as well.

The Indianapolis Star reports that Pacers assistant Frank Vogel is "expected to coach the team for the remainder of the season."

Well I think after last night he gave them no choice. Even though they had recently stated his job was safe until the end of the year. It was clear he'd lost the players, similar to the Cowboys situation this year things were only going to get worse if O'Brien stayed on.

[Kingspoint]

Come to one of my family gatherings, then turn on an NBA game and try to think any other thought. It would be very difficult. They might not use outright racial slurs, but you will hear alot of coded language.

Here is what I find ironic. Those same family members who were turned off by the 1990's NBA (w/ it's embracing of black/hip hop culture) and that era's thuggish/low scoring/uninteresting offense were huge fans of Woody Hayes' brand of football and pined for the good old days when "men were men". What is the difference?

I do see a difference by some where football should have more slack with it being more of a gladiator sport, though the NBA was more gladiatorial (I know that's probably not a word, but it works well here) and physical in the 70's than the NFL is today. Though I don't agree with those who feel that "as long as they win, I don't care what they do off the court, even if they're rapists of innocent women".

[Kingspoint]

These games they have on ABC today of Miami/OKC and Boston/LALakers should be regular matchups on a daily basis every day of the NBA season, not just something that happens in late January on a Sunday morning/afternoon. The NBA just doesn't do it right and it shows in their attendance at most arenas.

[Oxblood]

Looks like there's a beef between Bosh & Durant, Durant pretty much called out Bosh for who knows what.

[Yachtzee]

I would never have the money for that (and don't live in an NBA city).

I agree with your assesment of the need for the season ticket holders (upper middle to upper class white guys usually), but people are somehow able to separate the conduct of Roethlisberger/Vick/half of the Bengals from their season ticket payments.

As a side note to the conversation, I wonder how the "image" of the league would improve if someone of the stature/playing ability of Wade/LeBron/Howard was white and American born. It would be a really interesting to see how the league was marketed differently.

:rolleyes: "Half the Bengals?" Really?

I think most people still think Roethlisberger and Vick are scum. It only seems to be the media and residents of Pennsylvania that are willing to give them a pass.

I don't think race matters at all when it comes to LeBron. He was pretty much loved by all and made huge money on endorsements. He did the damage to his image (and to the NBA) on his own when he felt he was bigger than the game itself and launched that dog and pony show last summer. If he were white, I think most people would still view him as a first-class jerk.

The NBA, especially the Commissioner and the players, need to get it through their heads that the most important thing for continued success is fandom and that, while a few fans out there might root for a player wherever he is, most fans root for a team. Fans shell out lots of money to watch the team and buy merchandise and should be considered part of the "team." Unfortunately, I get the feeling that the NBA and at least a significant portion of its star players feel that fans should feel blessed to be able to view their "greatness" on display. If it weren't for the fans, a lot of these guys, mainly the ones who didn't go to or complete college, would be displaying their "greatness" flipping burgers.