2010 Indianapolis Colts [Archive] - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Eric_the_Red

11-05-2010, 02:50 PM

I know there are a few Colts fans on here, so I thought some team discussion would be good.

Overall, I am actually very happy with where the team is now. They have had to deal with a LOT of injuries, a trend that will continue this week. The following players have not practiced this week: Anthony Gonzalez, Mike Hart, Joseph Addai, Justin Tryon, Clint Session, Antonio Johnson, Robert Mathis, Jerraud Powers, Brody Eldridge and Bob Sanders. Not to mention Dallas Clark, who is on IR. Ouch.

On the plus side Austin Collie is back in practice, which would be huge this week, especially in 3 receiver sets.

The Eagles are very good following their bye weeks, so I am a bit nervous to say the least.

At this point I just want to team to hang onto the division lead and get healthy. If they can get many of their starters back, this is a very dangerous team that could potentially be overlooked a bit.

Oh yeah, they do have that Manning guy, who was named as the 8th best player in NFL history according to NFL Network (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81bdf64c/Top-100-Peyton-Manning).

Razor Shines

11-05-2010, 03:23 PM

Eric_the_Red

11-05-2010, 04:22 PM

From what I've heard collie is out for sure this week. I'm really interested to see how the d will handle vick. They're really good against the pass and horrible against the run, so I'm worried Jackson and vick will have big days on the ground. At least I have vick in my fantasy league. I also picked up Jacob tamme this week.

As did I . I had Clark(and am keeping him as it is a dynasty league) but I liked what I saw from Tamme. With Eldridge hurt and Gonzalez and possibly Collie out this week, I think he is in for a big week.

It will be interesting to see if the speed of Freeney can match/contain Vick. If I'm the Colts, I rush the front four only and put the LBs in a zone/contain package.

TeamSelig

11-05-2010, 04:23 PM

3rd total offense (Pts/Gm)
12th total defense (Pts/Gm)

Great passing game with a good pass rush. Tough team to beat.

redsfanmia

11-05-2010, 06:56 PM

Razor Shines

11-06-2010, 11:21 AM

Collie has practiced full participation the last 2 days and that usually means he is going to play.

That's good. I was listening to mpos on Monday or Tuesday and they said he was gonna practice but he wasn't going to play. But it appears as if you're right and he is going to play, which is awesome.

Eric_the_Red

11-06-2010, 01:46 PM

Collie is officially listed as questionable, but it looks like he will play.

Anthony Gonzalez, aka "Mr. Glass", was placed on IR. He is getting up there with Bob Sanders in terms of fragility.

redsfanmia

11-06-2010, 03:32 PM

Collie is officially listed as questionable, but it looks like he will play.

Anthony Gonzalez, aka "Mr. Glass", was placed on IR. He is getting up there with Bob Sanders in terms of fragility.

I think he will be gone after this season, he lost his starting job and complained about it to the media in training camp and then can't stay on the field when he comes back.

Redsfan320

11-07-2010, 06:43 PM

Say a prayer for Austin Collie. He got DRILLED helmet-to-helmet, didn't move at all, was carried out. I did see him blink a couple times as he was carried off, but that's all.

320

JaxRed

11-07-2010, 07:14 PM

Redsfan320

11-07-2010, 07:18 PM

Actually, while he got drilled..... it was NOT helmet to helmet. Both players laid shoulders into him. The penalty was for hitting a defenseless receiver. And even that as Phil Simms pointed out was a bad call. Collie had time to see the defenders and brace himself.

Alright. Well, regardless, I'm hearing that he's up and moving now and only has a concussion. That's great news. :)

320

redsfanmia

11-07-2010, 10:37 PM

Actually, while he got drilled..... it was NOT helmet to helmet. Both players laid shoulders into him. The penalty was for hitting a defenseless receiver. And even that as Phil Simms pointed out was a bad call. Collie had time to see the defenders and brace himself.

It sure looked like he got hit helmet to helmet to me, it was not intentional but still helmet to helmet.

Eric_the_Red

11-07-2010, 10:48 PM

Razor Shines

11-08-2010, 01:18 AM

Actually, while he got drilled..... it was NOT helmet to helmet. Both players laid shoulders into him. The penalty was for hitting a defenseless receiver. And even that as Phil Simms pointed out was a bad call. Collie had time to see the defenders and brace himself.

Uh, the guy from the backside clearly went helmet to helmet. I don't think he meant to but he did.

Razor Shines

11-08-2010, 01:21 AM

I was actually pleased with the game that the Colts gave the Eagles. With the number of injuries and losing Collie in the first half, to be in the game until the end says a lot. If this team gets healthy come playoff time, look out.

I'm disappointed in garcon. I think he runs poor routes. He's seems to be off of peytons page more than anyone else. He appears more and more as a guy that's only useful for stretching the d with by going deep.

bucksfan2

11-08-2010, 09:50 AM

Uh, the guy from the backside clearly went helmet to helmet. I don't think he meant to but he did.

You are correct here. And its the biggest problem I see with their current rules. There was nothing wrong with hit on Collie, absolutely nothing. It was an NFL hit and that happens when you go down the middle in the NFL. He caught the ball, went into a defensive position, and was hit but 3 different Eagles. Contact was made to the head but I didn't have one issue with it because it wasn't a kill shot and none of the Eagle defenders did anything but try and hit Collie excessively.

Hoosier Red

11-08-2010, 10:20 AM

You are correct here. And its the biggest problem I see with their current rules. There was nothing wrong with hit on Collie, absolutely nothing. It was an NFL hit and that happens when you go down the middle in the NFL. He caught the ball, went into a defensive position, and was hit but 3 different Eagles. Contact was made to the head but I didn't have one issue with it because it wasn't a kill shot and none of the Eagle defenders did anything but try and hit Collie excessively.

It should also be pointed out that the helmet to helmet hit was the 2nd hit on him. I don't think the defender could have avoided Collie no matter what. Collie went down low, then was knocked lower when the first guy hit him.

JaxRed

11-08-2010, 10:26 AM

Razor Shines

11-08-2010, 11:59 AM

There was no helmet to helmet hit. Both guys led with their shoulder. Only the media and fans are talking about this being helmet to helmet.

Here is the officials explanation of the call: "The fact of the matter is that the ball was incomplete," Cheffers said. "So he has protection throughout that entire process on that play because we don't have a completion. At no time did he have possession and become a runner to where he would have transitioned out of being a defenseless receiver."

Their rationale for the penalty is "defenseless receiver", not helmet to helmet.

Have you seen the replay? I really don't care what the rationale was for the call, but the guy from the backside clearly makes contact with his helmet directly with Collie's helmet before he made any other contact. Watch this replay and tell me it's not helmet to helmet.

YouTube - Austin Collie Injured on Big Hit .. Eagles vs. Colts 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kufy7Q1FVSA&feature=player_embedded#!)

Eric_the_Red

11-08-2010, 02:09 PM

I'm disappointed in garcon. I think he runs poor routes. He's seems to be off of peytons page more than anyone else. He appears more and more as a guy that's only useful for stretching the d with by going deep.

True. There was one play in particular that I remember where Garcon was slanting up the middle of the field and the ball hit off his hands. Seems to be a running trend with him. However, if Collie is healthy, a trio of Wayne/Collie/Garcon is well above average.

I have been impressed with Tamme so far. There are a few times it looks like he and Peyton haven't clicked yet, but overall I think his performance has been great filling in for Clark.

I am trying to find tickets for my step-father & I for Sunday's game. (At least one of us will be in Colts gear.) Anyone have any tickets available?

redsfanmia

11-08-2010, 03:29 PM

There was no helmet to helmet hit. Both guys led with their shoulder. Only the media and fans are talking about this being helmet to helmet.

Here is the officials explanation of the call: "The fact of the matter is that the ball was incomplete," Cheffers said. "So he has protection throughout that entire process on that play because we don't have a completion. At no time did he have possession and become a runner to where he would have transitioned out of being a defenseless receiver."

Their rationale for the penalty is "defenseless receiver", not helmet to helmet.

It was a helmet to helmet hit, it was not intentional and there was not a penalty called for it but the hit was helmet to helmet.

Eric_the_Red

11-10-2010, 12:09 AM

No surprise, but Collie and Bob Sanders have been ruled out for Sunday's game. No official word on Mike Hart or Joseph Addai yet,

Eric_the_Red

11-11-2010, 04:45 PM

Now Tamme is questionable with a back injury. The injuries on this team are unbelieveable. If Tamme is out, that would leave Wayne, Garcon and White as the only legit receivers, if you can call Garcon and White legit.

Brutal. Get well soon, Colts!!

redsfanmia

11-11-2010, 06:13 PM

They added Brandon James to the active roster, I think they will have enough to beat the hapless Bengals on Sunday.

Razor Shines

11-12-2010, 12:16 PM

Tamme was a full participant yesterday, so he'll probably play.

Eric_the_Red

11-15-2010, 11:55 PM

Big game coming up vs New England. It will be interesting to see which players are able to suit up. I read that it doesn't look good for Addai or Hart to return. More info on Collie and Session should be coming tomorrow, and apparently Tamme is doing his Dallas Clark impression with a very painful back.

Tall order to go on the road and try to take one against the Patsies with that many injuries. A win, however, and the Colts could be looking at the road to a first round playoff bye.

Razor Shines

11-16-2010, 12:30 AM

gilpdawg

11-16-2010, 01:54 AM

I'm not optimistic about our chances Sunday. A good team would have beat us by 20 against Cincy.

Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

Eric_the_Red

11-21-2010, 07:20 PM

Collie returns, looks really good, and then get concussed again.

*sigh*

CTA513

11-21-2010, 08:12 PM

Colts tried to come from behind and win, but ended up losing 31-28.
Patriots didn't help the Colts out by turning the ball over like the Bengals did.

Razor Shines

11-21-2010, 08:15 PM

New England is just better at this point. Colts were lucky to be in it at the end.

redsfanmia

11-21-2010, 08:34 PM

New England is just better at this point. Colts were lucky to be in it at the end.

The Colts are so banged up that if they make the play offs it has to be considered a great season. I think they need to make resigning Joe Addia a priority and they need to get Petyon atleast one more weapon at receiver, not sure about the future of Garcon he has been horrible this season.

Eric_the_Red

11-21-2010, 10:30 PM

New England is just better at this point. Colts were lucky to be in it at the end.

I think the only reason the Pats are "better" at this point is due to injuries. The Colts are decimated and still had a shot at winning the game late. If you take out 2 of the Pats starting 3 LBs, 2 of their safeties, their #1 and 3 RBs, their #1 TE and #2 receiver, and I think the Colts win that one.

At this point I just want some guys to get healthy. If the Colts can win their division games, they should make the playoffs. If they can get some guys healthy and playing again, watch out. If not, it is probably wait until next year.

And, not only would I look to get another WR to complement Wayne & Collie, but a RB in the off-season would be nice. I wonder if Donald Brown will ever show me something.

Razor Shines

11-21-2010, 11:47 PM

Yeah, I agree about the injuries, but I'm not sure if they'll be healthy enough for a deep playoff run this year.

Eric_the_Red

11-21-2010, 11:51 PM

redsfanmia

11-22-2010, 03:21 PM

If they get Session, Brackett, Addai and Hart back, that would go a long way. If Collie can safely return, that is just as big. I worry that he may be too susceptible to concussions now.

And if, granted it is a HUGE "if", Bob Sanders can return for the last month and playoffs, it completely changes the defense.

Sanders is supposed to play against Dallas. I think they should go atleast 4-2 the rest of the way and that should get them in the play-offs and we could get a shot at the Patriots at Lucas Oil.

Razor Shines

11-23-2010, 12:52 PM

Sanders is supposed to play against Dallas. I think they should go atleast 4-2 the rest of the way and that should get them in the play-offs and we could get a shot at the Patriots at Lucas Oil.

Yeah, I can see 4-2, but I don't see them getting NE at home. I think NE beats the Jets in a couple weeks and finishes atop their division.

They're probably going to have to go into Foxborough, if they get that far.

I don't see counting on Sanders being a good idea. He may play against Dallas and then call it a season. After all what's the difference between a dollar bill and Bob Sanders? You can get 4 quarters from a dollar.

redsfanmia

11-23-2010, 04:02 PM

Yeah, I can see 4-2, but I don't see them getting NE at home. I think NE beats the Jets in a couple weeks and finishes atop their division.

They're probably going to have to go into Foxborough, if they get that far.

I don't see counting on Sanders being a good idea. He may play against Dallas and then call it a season. After all what's the difference between a dollar bill and Bob Sanders? You can get 4 quarters from a dollar.

After looking at the schedule I think IF the Colts beat the Chargers Sunday (I will be there) I think they can win out. 4-2 is a worst case scenerio IMO, 5-1 is very realistic. An imploding Titans team twice, Oakland, Jacksonville, Dallas at home and San Diego should net 5 wins.

I am not counting on Sanders but if he comes back he will be a huge lift to the D and honestly the team, I think he is that much of an impact player still.

redsfanmia

11-29-2010, 12:42 AM

Razor Shines

11-29-2010, 12:43 PM

The game tonight was embarrassing. I know they are injured but I am getting tired of excuses. I really think they need to look long and hard at Jim Caldwell in the off season, I think they are declining and are just now well coached. I think they could get Gruden and that would be a huge improvement coaching wise.

I don't see a coaching change making one bit of difference. They've got 7 key starters out on both sides of the ball, it's really hard to win that way. It's not really an excuse, it's just the way it is.

The Colts offense is a bunch of hand signals and code. With many of the main guys being new and or not practicing much, the offense is really going to continue to struggle.

I agree with what you said earlier:

The Colts are so banged up that if they make the play offs it has to be considered a great season.

redsfanmia

11-29-2010, 03:29 PM

I don't see a coaching change making one bit of difference. They've got 7 key starters out on both sides of the ball, it's really hard to win that way. It's not really an excuse, it's just the way it is.

The Colts offense is a bunch of hand signals and code. With many of the main guys being new and or not practicing much, the offense is really going to continue to struggle.

I agree with what you said earlier:

I agree about the 7 key starters being out and I actually agree with you about the practicing. I see you live in Texas do you get to watch the games? The Colts were not as sharp as they have been in the past when they were healthy. There were contracts disputes and malcontents speaking out in the media, I do not remember that happening under Dungy. The Colts make more mistakes now then they ever did when Tony Dungy was coach. The Colts are not close to being the same team they were under Dungy, Caldwell is not in the same class as Dungy and I do not think he gets the same respect as Dungy did. Just my opinion.

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 03:39 PM

Coming from a fan of the NFL with no allegiance/hatred of the Colts...

It looks like their days as a top contender are over.

bucksfan2

11-29-2010, 03:57 PM

I agree about the 7 key starters being out and I actually agree with you about the practicing. I see you live in Texas do you get to watch the games? The Colts were not as sharp as they have been in the past when they were healthy. There were contracts disputes and malcontents speaking out in the media, I do not remember that happening under Dungy. The Colts make more mistakes now then they ever did when Tony Dungy was coach. The Colts are not close to being the same team they were under Dungy, Caldwell is not in the same class as Dungy and I do not think he gets the same respect as Dungy did. Just my opinion.

Injuries happen in the NFL. To use it as an excuse doesn't fly with me. And to be honest the Colts have been very lucky with injuries over the past handful of years. Guys like Manning, Wayne, or Harrison never were out injured. Its amazing to me the injury free streak that Manning has had. To me its almost more impressive that he really has never had a minor injury. Dude has been scratch free his entire career.

As for Dungy this may be unpopular with Colts fans but I think he held the team back. IMO they should have won at least 2 Super Bowls with him at the helm. I feel as if they always underachieved in the playoffs under Dungy. As for Caldwell the jury is out way too early. Heck they did just make it to the Super Bowl last season and if it weren't for some gutsy coaching (Sean Payton) and an awful INT (Payton Manning) the Colts may have been champs last season.

blumj

11-29-2010, 04:27 PM

Coming from a fan of the NFL with no allegiance/hatred of the Colts...

It looks like their days as a top contender are over.

Nope, the QB is too good. As long as that remains true, enough of everything else can be fixed on the fly over an offseason to keep them up there with other top contenders.

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 05:27 PM

Nope, the QB is too good. As long as that remains true, enough of everything else can be fixed on the fly over an offseason to keep them up there with other top contenders.

Agree to disagree. I think its over. Manning is now on the backside of his career.

4 INTs last night. (Slice it how you want, he was bad) Huge INT in the Superbowl.

The QB is not as good as he once was. Good, but no longer top-shelf.

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 05:28 PM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/529172-peyton-manning-the-indianapolis-colts-and-the-end-of-a-dynasty?source=rss_teams_Indianapolis_Colts

redsfanmia

11-29-2010, 05:52 PM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/529172-peyton-manning-the-indianapolis-colts-and-the-end-of-a-dynasty?source=rss_teams_Indianapolis_Colts

I think I lost 10 IQ points reading that. The Colts are injured but they are still tied for first in the AFC South and have a favorable schedule to end the season.

Razor Shines

11-29-2010, 06:14 PM

Agree to disagree. I think its over. Manning is now on the backside of his career.

4 INTs last night. (Slice it how you want, he was bad) Huge INT in the Superbowl.

The QB is not as good as he once was. Good, but no longer top-shelf.

That's ridiculous. Did he lose it all over night? 8 games in he was the best QB in the league. The way they run their offense he has to have practice reps and his WRs have to be on the same page as him. Of guys who catch passes (WRs, RBs, TEs) they have 1 starter right now. Their O line can't produce any holes for any type of run game. I don't know of a QB in the league or in history that could do more than Manning has with the current team.

They'll be fine next year or this year if by some miracle they get healthy.

That INT in the SB was a mis-communication between Wayne and Manning. That's going to happen a couple times a game when your offense is based on hand signals and eye contact. Usually those balls fall harmlessly incomplete, but that one didn't.

Injuries happen in the NFL. To use it as an excuse doesn't fly with me. And to be honest the Colts have been very lucky with injuries over the past handful of years. Guys like Manning, Wayne, or Harrison never were out injured. Its amazing to me the injury free streak that Manning has had. To me its almost more impressive that he really has never had a minor injury. Dude has been scratch free his entire career.

Yeah, those guys haven't been injured but they dealt with plenty of other injuries. The season they won the Super Bowl they had injury issues. Right now they have both Session and Bracket out, their two best LBs. The offensive issues speak for themselves. They're running with 2nd and 4th string RBs, 2nd and 4th string TEs. Reggie Wayne then a bunch of back ups at WR. I don't see anyone else winning with that type of depletion.

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 06:16 PM

I think I lost 10 IQ points reading that. The Colts are injured but they are still tied for first in the AFC South and have a favorable schedule to end the season.

I'd expect nothing less from someone located in Indy. :cool:

Again, I have no dog in this fight, but my only premise is that Indy is no longer a top-contender. They are behind NYJ,NE,Bal,Pitt,SD.

redsfanmia

11-29-2010, 06:22 PM

I'd expect nothing less from someone located in Indy. :cool:

Again, I have no dog in this fight, but my only premise is that Indy is no longer a top-contender. They are behind NYJ,NE,Bal,Pitt,SD.

I agree they are behing those teams but I am sure none of those teams other than SD would want to play the Colts in the play-offs. If the Colts make the play offs they will probably play Pittsburgh, Baltimore or NE at home and I like the Colts chances to beat any of those teams especially Baltimore and NE.

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 06:24 PM

That's ridiculous. Did he lose it all over night? 8 games in he was the best QB in the league. The way they run their offense he has to have practice reps and his WRs have to be on the same page as him. Of guys who catch passes (WRs, RBs, TEs) they have 1 starter right now. Their O line can't produce any holes for any type of run game. I don't know of a QB in the league or in history that could do more than Manning has with the current team.

They'll be fine next year or this year if by some miracle they get healthy.

That INT in the SB was a mis-communication between Wayne and Manning. That's going to happen a couple times a game when your offense is based on hand signals and eye contact. Usually those balls fall harmlessly incomplete, but that one didn't.

Yeah, those guys haven't been injured but they dealt with plenty of other injuries. The season they won the Super Bowl they had injury issues. Right now they have both Session and Bracket out, their two best LBs. The offensive issues speak for themselves. They're running with 2nd and 4th string RBs, 2nd and 4th string TEs. Reggie Wayne then a bunch of back ups at WR. I don't see anyone else winning with that type of depletion.

It is not ridiculous to suggest that Peyton Manning is no longer a top-shelf QB. He's a very good QB...many teams would love to have him.

But his BEST days are in the rearview mirror. He will be 35 at the beginning of next season.

Did I just hear an excuse for a choke-job on a Superbowl-deciding drive???...I think I did.

redsfanmia

11-29-2010, 06:33 PM

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 06:36 PM

Do defensive players ever make good plays or do offensive players always choke?

Funny how you don't address the play. Was it a poor throw/decision by Manning? If you say no it is not, then I'm afraid I have nothing more to add.

Razor Shines

11-29-2010, 06:38 PM

It is not ridiculous to suggest that Peyton Manning is no longer a top-shelf QB. He's a very good QB...many teams would love to have him.

But his BEST days are in the rearview mirror. He will be 35 at the beginning of next season.

Did I just hear an excuse for a choke-job on a Superbowl-deciding drive???...I think I did.

Call it what you want but it wasn't a choke job it was exactly what I said it was. You don't like Peyton, clearly, and I do so yeah we're going to see things differently. Mannings made enough game ending drives in his career to call it a fluke rather than a choke, IMO. I'm gonna guess that you're not going to see it that way.

He was having one of the best seasons of his career half way through the season. Maybe he just started to decline and maybe it was just a coincidence that his poor play has started when his offensive skill positions have been decimated.

I guess it depends on your definition of top shelf. When his guys are healthy I still put him right there with Brady, Brees, Rivers, Rogers and Vick. Now, it could be that he's getting tired, he's only two games worth of passes from attempting more passes than he did all of last season. His picks are high right now but he's had some unlucky ones and I'll bet that will level out by the end of the year. He'll likely finish with his standard 30-33 TDs and 15-18 picks.

redsfanmia

11-29-2010, 06:39 PM

Funny how you don't address the play. Was it a poor throw/decision by Manning? If you say no it is not, then I'm afraid I have nothing more to add.

It was not a great throw, it was not a great effort by Reggie Wayne to come back to the ball and it was a great play by former Hoosier Terry Porter to jump the route. Is every interception thrown a "choke job" by the quarterback?

Honesty who do you consider to be a better quarterback than Manning right now?

Razor Shines

11-29-2010, 06:41 PM

Funny how you don't address the play. Was it a poor throw/decision by Manning? If you say no it is not, then I'm afraid I have nothing more to add.

Wayne ran one route and Manning threw to a different route, it's as simple as that. I don't know which one was wrong, but like I said in their offense it's going to happen. Now if you want to argue that maybe they should huddle up more often to prevent these mistakes then you have an argument, but the fact is it wasn't any thing more than WR and QB not being on the same page.

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 06:42 PM

Grossly unfair to say I don't like Manning Razor. He is top 5 of all time and is a class act.

Razor Shines

11-29-2010, 06:54 PM

Grossly unfair to say I don't like Manning Razor. He is top 5 of all time and is a class act.

I throw around the term "choke job" for guys that I really like too:D. Especially when it's not accurate. Watch the replay. Wayne runs one route, Manning throws to another.

YouTube - Tracy Porter Game Winning Interception vs. Colts in Super Bowl 44 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh5D_TMGwjk)

Like I say, the argument could be made that maybe they should rethink their offense to ensure they're on the same page, but it wasn't a bad throw. Manning threw it right to Porter, it wasn't like he was trying to fit it into tight coverage. He didn't throw it anywhere near Wayne, so either you'd have to believe that Manning is just awful or Wayne ran a different route than what Manning believed him to be running.

Maybe you do like him, but I just don't see how anyone could honestly think that was a bad throw. It wasn't an overthrow or an underthrow, it wasn't a mistake in trying to fit a pass in somewhere that he couldn't.

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 06:56 PM

It was not a great throw, it was not a great effort by Reggie Wayne to come back to the ball and it was a great play by former Hoosier Terry Porter to jump the route. Is every interception thrown a "choke job" by the quarterback?

Honesty who do you consider to be a better quarterback than Manning right now?

That question could be interperted many ways, so let me give you my scenario.

I will answer what QB would I want starting for my team in 2011, assuming that QB has had the offseason to get familiar with my imaginary team.

Before Manning, I would take (in no order)

Vick (injury risk of course), Brady, Brees, Cassell (yes Cassell of the 22 TD and 4 INT...really coming into his own this year), Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers

Intriguing names to be would be Bradford,Flacco,Orton....but I won't lie and say I'd choose them over Peyton for 2011.

So that puts him at #9 on my NFL QB list. Thats good, but not top-shelf for me. No shame in that. And I still think the Superbowl throw was a choke...I hope you don't think I'm a bad person for that.

Razor Shines

11-29-2010, 06:58 PM

That question could be interperted many ways, so let me give you my scenario.

I will answer what QB would I want starting for my team in 2011, assuming that QB has had the offseason to get familiar with my imaginary team.

Before Manning, I would take (in no order)

Vick (injury risk of course), Brady, Brees, Cassell (yes Cassell of the 22 TD and 4 INT...really coming into his own this year), Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers

Intriguing names to be would be Bradford,Flacco,Orton....but I won't lie and say I'd choose them over Peyton for 2011.

So that puts him at #9 on my NFL QB list. Thats good, but not top-shelf for me. No shame in that. And I still think the Superbowl throw was a choke...I hope you don't think I'm a bad person for that.

I maybe blinded by my fandum in terms of believing he's still a top QB, time will tell, but I'm not wrong about that SB pick.

redsfanmia

11-29-2010, 06:59 PM

That question could be interperted many ways, so let me give you my scenario.

I will answer what QB would I want starting for my team in 2011, assuming that QB has had the offseason to get familiar with my imaginary team.

Before Manning, I would take (in no order)

Vick (injury risk of course), Brady, Brees, Cassell (yes Cassell of the 22 TD and 4 INT...really coming into his own this year), Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers

Intriguing names to be would be Bradford,Flacco,Orton....but I won't lie and say I'd choose them over Peyton for 2011.

So that puts him at #9 on my NFL QB list. Thats good, but not top-shelf for me. No shame in that. And I still think the Superbowl throw was a choke...I hope you don't think I'm a bad person for that.

Lets just say I am glad you are not the GM of my favorite football team :lol:.

redsfanmia

11-29-2010, 07:02 PM

I maybe blinded by my fandum in terms of believing he's still a top QB, time will tell, but I'm not wrong about that SB pick.

I agree with you, Manning has his faults but it has to be a concindence that his performance went south when Dallas Clark, Joe Addai, Anthony Gonzalez and Austin Collie started missing games.

Razor Shines

11-29-2010, 07:05 PM

Vick (injury risk of course), Brady, Brees, Cassell (yes Cassell of the 22 TD and 4 INT...really coming into his own this year), Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers

Those guys all do have 100yds/game rushing attacks and most of them have their starters. I think it's kinda silly to pick Matt Cassell. He has the best rushing attack in football. Curtis Painter could probably put up decent numbers in that offense, jk. Cassell's only had to throw 323 times, Mannings put it up 486 times.

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 07:06 PM

I maybe blinded by my fandum in terms of believing he's still a top QB, time will tell, but I'm not wrong about that SB pick.

I don't see what you are seeing then. Am I right to say that you think Wayne ran the wrong route or turned the wrong way? I don't see that.

Watching the final shot in your video from above, I see a ball that would have been caught by Wayne had Porter not jumped the route.

Nice play by Porter, of course, but you have to be aware of a DB looking to jump a route...something Manning missed.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/colts-peyton-manning-outwitted-at-crucial-moment-by-220129.html

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/The-Pick-that-Broke-Twitter-Tracy-Porter-s-inte?urn=nfl-218141

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/02/16/peyton-manning/index.html

Nowhere do I hear a mention of how Manning and Wayne were not on the same page.

kaldaniels

11-29-2010, 07:16 PM

Those guys all do have 100yds/game rushing attacks and most of them have their starters. I think it's kinda silly to pick Matt Cassell. He has the best rushing attack in football. Curtis Painter could probably put up decent numbers in that offense, jk. Cassell's only had to throw 323 times, Mannings put it up 486 times.

I expect to take some heat on the Cassell choice, so I will grant you that. But I like the guy. What can I say. :dunno:

Razor Shines

11-29-2010, 07:20 PM

I don't see what you are seeing then. Am I right to say that you think Wayne ran the wrong route or turned the wrong way? I don't see that.

Watching the final shot in your video from above, I see a ball that would have been caught by Wayne had Porter not jumped the route.

Nice play by Porter, of course, but you have to be aware of a DB looking to jump a route...something Manning missed.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/colts-peyton-manning-outwitted-at-crucial-moment-by-220129.html

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/The-Pick-that-Broke-Twitter-Tracy-Porter-s-inte?urn=nfl-218141

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/02/16/peyton-manning/index.html

Nowhere do I hear a mention of how Manning and Wayne were not on the same page.

I've watched them run that play enough to say that I'm 95% sure that Manning thought Wayne was going to cut in front of Porter sooner. I really don't think he was supposed to juke Porter then cut in. I wouldn't expect Manning or Wayne to say anything about not being on the same page. Phil Simms even says in the replay the timing was not there. And you see Peyton go over and talk to Wayne as they're walking off the field, they're body language didn't seem as though they were on the same page.

Also, Porter was back peddling until the ball was in the air. It was a good play but he didn't start forward until the ball was coming toward him.

Razor Shines

11-29-2010, 07:23 PM

I expect to take some heat on the Cassell choice, so I will grant you that. But I like the guy. What can I say. :dunno:

He's good, that's for sure. He's doing what the Cheifs need him to do, I just don't think he's elite.

TeamSelig

11-29-2010, 10:58 PM

That question could be interperted many ways, so let me give you my scenario.

I will answer what QB would I want starting for my team in 2011, assuming that QB has had the offseason to get familiar with my imaginary team.

Before Manning, I would take (in no order)

Vick (injury risk of course), Brady, Brees, Cassell (yes Cassell of the 22 TD and 4 INT...really coming into his own this year), Big Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Rodgers

Intriguing names to be would be Bradford,Flacco,Orton....but I won't lie and say I'd choose them over Peyton for 2011.

So that puts him at #9 on my NFL QB list. Thats good, but not top-shelf for me. No shame in that. And I still think the Superbowl throw was a choke...I hope you don't think I'm a bad person for that.

It's obvious you are just a Manning hater (and I'm not even a Colts fan)... You sound like Colin Cowherd or Skip Bayless. When you have such a strong opinion about something and you're standing alone... theres a good chance that you are emotionally involved (hate for Manning), saying things for attention, or you are just plum crazy. Which is it?

Eric_the_Red

11-30-2010, 12:13 AM

If the Colts were healthy, the only teams that would "scare" me in the playoffs would be the Chargers and Patriots, because they always play Indy tough and have good teams.

The Jets have barely won many of their games in what looks to be an easy schedule.

The Steelers were lucky to win against Buffalo yesterday and their offensive line is swiss cheese.

The Ravens are tough, but they seem like the type of team the Colts beat consistently. Give Manning a drive or two to figure out what the defense is doing and watch him pick it apart.

That said, the Colts have to get healthy. If not, they will be lucky to finish above .500 this year.

And this off-season I think the priorities have to be O-line, D-line and secondary. Add some help there and the "dead" Colts legacy will spring back to life.

kaldaniels

11-30-2010, 01:25 AM

It's obvious you are just a Manning hater (and I'm not even a Colts fan)... You sound like Colin Cowherd or Skip Bayless. When you have such a strong opinion about something and you're standing alone... theres a good chance that you are emotionally involved (hate for Manning), saying things for attention, or you are just plum crazy. Which is it?

I thought you were better than that Team Selig. Some real cheap shots in that post. I can't even express how disgusted I am with that personal attack.

To everyone else. All I am saying is that I have Manning as the 9th best QB in the league going into the 2011 season. When you look at the numbers, it is not that unfathomable. QB Rating is not everything I know, but he is 15th in the NFL as I type this. (I have him as ninth best) I respect others opinions on this and I know Peyton has had quite the career, as I said, he is a top 5 QB all time for me. A real class act and great diplomat for the NFL. Maybe the most intelligent field general who has ever played. So please don't say I hate the guy...he is one of the few in the spotlight who for all purposes don't have a blemish on him vis a vis his off field actions.

And I will leave it at that.

Razor Shines

11-30-2010, 09:30 PM

I thought you were better than that Team Selig. Some real cheap shots in that post. I can't even express how disgusted I am with that personal attack.

To everyone else. All I am saying is that I have Manning as the 9th best QB in the league going into the 2011 season. When you look at the numbers, it is not that unfathomable. QB Rating is not everything I know, but he is 15th in the NFL as I type this. (I have him as ninth best) I respect others opinions on this and I know Peyton has had quite the career, as I said, he is a top 5 QB all time for me. A real class act and great diplomat for the NFL. Maybe the most intelligent field general who has ever played. So please don't say I hate the guy...he is one of the few in the spotlight who for all purposes don't have a blemish on him vis a vis his off field actions.

And I will leave it at that.

A few weeks ago he was near #1 in almost all the qb stats. You weren't saying he was 9th best then.

He loses all his offense and add in the fact that the D knows he's throwing nearly every play because they have no running game and they're almost always losing because the Colts defense is also shorthanded. I don't see another qb doing much better than Peyton in that situation.

Cedric

11-30-2010, 09:33 PM

kaldaniels

11-30-2010, 10:26 PM

Hey as long as it is respectful I will take the heat for my position. I just think Peyton is entering the downside of his career and around the league there are some outstanding young arms.

Eric_the_Red

11-30-2010, 11:00 PM

Hey as long as it is respectful I will take the heat for my position. I just think Peyton is entering the downside of his career and around the league there are some outstanding young arms.

Question: was Peyton entering the downside of his career through the first 8 weeks or so of this season? Do you think the drastic difference in his results since then are more of a reflection of his declining skills or the myriad of injuries to the Colts?

kaldaniels

11-30-2010, 11:21 PM

Question: was Peyton entering the downside of his career through the first 8 weeks or so of this season? Do you think the drastic difference in his results since then are more of a reflection of his declining skills or the myriad of injuries to the Colts?

1) Yes

2) Some of both.

I am wondering if an injury or bothersome ailment that hasn't been disclosed is lurking around as well, FYI.

kaldaniels

11-30-2010, 11:32 PM

Razor Shines

12-01-2010, 12:29 AM

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/peyton-manning/careerstats/69814

From 04 to 06 he was playing as well as just about any QB ever has. Looking at his yd/att, TD total (not so much honestly), and TD to INT ratio...he has being trending down ever since. And trending down for Manning still gives you a great QB, but I think we are at the crossroads where the Aaron Rodgers-type QB is passing him by.

Pretty slim drop. Last year was his 4th best season of his career, BTW. Wonder if losing Harrison after 06 and the colts not really replacing him with anyone solid had anything to do with the slight drop.

First year they really had a deep threat since 06 was last year in Garcon and he's nothing too special.

kaldaniels

12-01-2010, 12:32 AM

Pretty slim drop. Last year was his 4th best season of his career, BTW. Wonder if losing Harrison after 06 and the colts not really replacing him with anyone solid had anything to do with the slight drop.

First year they really had a deep threat since 06 was last year in Garcon and he's nothing too special.

Harrison left after 08. He and Manning were special together.

Razor Shines

12-01-2010, 12:46 AM

Harrison left after 08. He and Manning were special together.

Harrison left after 06, he was still employed by the colts until 08.

kaldaniels

12-01-2010, 01:04 AM

Harrison left after 06, he was still employed by the colts until 08.

That is wrong. Sorry.

gilpdawg

12-01-2010, 03:40 AM

That is wrong. Sorry.
I think he's referring to the fact that Harrison was a shell of his former self in 2008 & 2007.

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bucksfan2

12-01-2010, 09:36 AM

I'm usually open for any debate. I'm pretty sure I'm not even willing to listen to the opinions of someone that thinks Peyton Manning is the 9th best NFL Qb.

I mean that with no personal disrespect. I just doubt that person knows anything about this subject.

Ninth may be a little strong here. But no longer would I pick him as the #1 or #2 QB in the league. #1 for me has always been Brady. Brady has been a winner since he stepped onto the field. IMO that always set him apart from Manning. #2 for me now is Rivers. Rivers has been without his top two WR's this entire season and keeps putting up numbers. And you don't hear people using it as a crutch for him. With all the injuries Manning has had he still has his top WR available for ever game.

As for QB's right now I think you have to put Brady, Rivers, and Brees ahead of Manning. Vick is a wild card because when he is on he is the hardest in the game to stop. Big Ben won't put up numbers but he finds a way to win. And then you have Matt Ryan who looks to be the up and coming QB star.

So right now my list would go
1. Brady
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Manning
5. Ben
6. Ryan
7. Vick

kaldaniels

12-01-2010, 10:01 AM

Ninth may be a little strong here. But no longer would I pick him as the #1 or #2 QB in the league. #1 for me has always been Brady. Brady has been a winner since he stepped onto the field. IMO that always set him apart from Manning. #2 for me now is Rivers. Rivers has been without his top two WR's this entire season and keeps putting up numbers. And you don't hear people using it as a crutch for him. With all the injuries Manning has had he still has his top WR available for ever game.

As for QB's right now I think you have to put Brady, Rivers, and Brees ahead of Manning. Vick is a wild card because when he is on he is the hardest in the game to stop. Big Ben won't put up numbers but he finds a way to win. And then you have Matt Ryan who looks to be the up and coming QB star.

So right now my list would go
1. Brady
2. Rivers
3. Brees
4. Manning
5. Ben
6. Ryan
7. Vick

Absolutely fair take Bucksfans.

Let me introduce another variable into this, and I intend this as a compliment for Manning. If you give Manning solid offensive line protection and a set of decent recievers that he has worked with for a few years...I'd say no one can sit back and pick apart a defense like him.

However, most teams out there have a chink or two in their armor, of which a QB has to instinctively make a play. I don't think that is one of Peyton's strong suits. Or maybe I should say, most of the guys I rank above him are better at that than Manning.

Eric_the_Red

12-01-2010, 11:04 AM

1) Yes

2) Some of both.

I am wondering if an injury or bothersome ailment that hasn't been disclosed is lurking around as well, FYI.

Manning's stats thru the first 8 games in 2010:
96.3 QB rating
2478 passing yards
16 TD
4 INT

Heck of a downside to a career.

kaldaniels

12-01-2010, 11:13 AM

Manning's stats thru the first 8 games in 2010:
96.3 QB rating
2478 passing yards
16 TD
4 INT

Heck of a downside to a career.

If you like you can re-type that using his current stats to see how it looks.

As I wrote earlier, he has been trending down since 06. (Of course down for Manning is still a very good QB).

Where do you think Manning is today in regards to his career? In his prime?

Eric_the_Red

12-01-2010, 11:39 AM

If you like you can re-type that using his current stats to see how it looks.

As I wrote earlier, he has been trending down since 06. (Of course down for Manning is still a very good QB).

Where do you think Manning is today in regards to his career? In his prime?

I asked if he was entering his downside through the first 8 games this year, and you said yes. I presented evidence to show this was not the case.

Manning's stats did not begin to drop until the team lost their starting RB, their #3 RB, their #1 TE, and their #2 or 3 WR. Any of the 8 or 9 QBs that you feel are better than Manning right now would experience the same steep decline in their stats if their team lost that many weapons on offense at one time.

As for your questions, I think Manning today, with a healthy supporting cast, is every bit as good as he ever was.

kaldaniels

12-01-2010, 11:54 AM

I misread your question Eric, or the spirit there of, because Manning's best years were 04 to 06. So he wasn't "entering" the downside early this year, because he was already in it to a degree.

bucksfan2

12-01-2010, 12:02 PM

I asked if he was entering his downside through the first 8 games this year, and you said yes. I presented evidence to show this was not the case.

Manning's stats did not begin to drop until the team lost their starting RB, their #3 RB, their #1 TE, and their #2 or 3 WR. Any of the 8 or 9 QBs that you feel are better than Manning right now would experience the same steep decline in their stats if their team lost that many weapons on offense at one time.

As for your questions, I think Manning today, with a healthy supporting cast, is every bit as good as he ever was.

Its the NFL and injuries happen. Manning has been fortunate for the majority of his career that none of his big guns were injured.

Why is Manning regressing when his offensive weapons get hurt while Rivers is surging?

Razor Shines

12-01-2010, 12:11 PM

That is wrong. Sorry.

He played five games in 07 and played injured for all 15 games of 08. Due to injuries and old age, he was gone after 06.

Eric_the_Red

12-01-2010, 12:26 PM

Its the NFL and injuries happen. Manning has been fortunate for the majority of his career that none of his big guns were injured.

Why is Manning regressing when his offensive weapons get hurt while Rivers is surging?

Of course injuries happen. What does that have to do with the fact that injuries have affected Manning's numbers this year? Injuries happen, they can lead to a decline in stats, and that has happened to Manning this season.

As for your second question A) I don't think Manning is regressing, and B) Rivers didn't lose Gates for the year, he has a much deeper RB and WR group, he knew Jackson was holding out so they coudl prepare and he has faced a much easier schedule than Manning & the Colts have. Plus, the Colts have more wins. If the argument is Rivers vs Manning with the exact same offenses behind them, give me Manning every day and twice on Sunday.

Razor Shines

12-01-2010, 12:52 PM

Its the NFL and injuries happen. Manning has been fortunate for the majority of his career that none of his big guns were injured.

Why is Manning regressing when his offensive weapons get hurt while Rivers is surging?

#1 Defense in football and a run blocking offensive line. Rivers has had to throw the ball 110 fewer times than Manning.

Razor Shines

12-01-2010, 01:02 PM

Of course injuries happen. What does that have to do with the fact that injuries have affected Manning's numbers this year? Injuries happen, they can lead to a decline in stats, and that has happened to Manning this season.

As for your second question A) I don't think Manning is regressing, and B) Rivers didn't lose Gates for the year, he has a much deeper RB and WR group, he knew Jackson was holding out so they coudl prepare and he has faced a much easier schedule than Manning & the Colts have. Plus, the Colts have more wins. If the argument is Rivers vs Manning with the exact same offenses behind them, give me Manning every day and twice on Sunday.

Yeah, Gates has only missed two games. But he was probably only 75% Vs. the Colts. I bet if Manning had back just Dallas Clark his numbers would have been a lot better over the last 5 games. Tamme is decent, but he's not as fast or as big as Dallas. And he is no where near as good of a blocker as Dallas.

Razor Shines

12-05-2010, 05:23 PM

Hmm...Colts already down 7 before the offense gets the ball. With no running game, I see another game where Peyton is forced to throw it near 50 time, can't see this going well.

gilpdawg

12-05-2010, 05:38 PM

This is the 2001 team all over again, but Caldwell won't have any Jim Mora like rants.
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redsfanmia

12-05-2010, 06:21 PM

I am convinced that Manning is having some arm issues, he is just not the same as he was earlier in the season. There were whispers early this season that he was having some nerve issues and could barely raise his right arm after throwing, maybe there was something to that.

kaldaniels

12-05-2010, 06:24 PM

Razor Shines

12-05-2010, 06:27 PM

Could be, I don't know. Either way he's pressing. He knows he has to do everything and is forcing the issue sometimes.

Either he throws the ball a ton of times and racks up some picks, but have a chance to win or he can run the ball throw selectively take their 3 and outs, his numbers will look better but they'll have no shot of winning.

With this defense though it really doesn't matter. The Cowboys are looking like the greatest offense team ever.

kaldaniels

12-05-2010, 06:31 PM

I will add that Phillip Rivers, who I would rank as my #1 QB in the league (with Brady right behind), is currently down 21-3 to Oakland. You just never know with the NFL.

redsfanmia

12-05-2010, 06:36 PM

I will add that Phillip Rivers, who I would rank as my #1 QB in the league (with Brady right behind), is currently down 21-3 to Oakland. You just never know with the NFL.

The other team tries too. Guys have bad weeks and sometimes coaches have great plans against great players.

kaldaniels

12-05-2010, 06:38 PM

The other team tries too. Guys have bad weeks and sometimes coaches have great plans against great players.

I know. What I'm driving at is that I'm not gonna judge Manning on this game.

Razor Shines

12-05-2010, 07:01 PM

Razor Shines

12-05-2010, 07:13 PM

LOL. Anyone think Peyton thinks White ran the wrong route?

I couldn't see what White said but Peyton said: "You were supposed to come back to me." White responds with something and Peyton says "Bull(crap)" LOL.

I just have to laugh at this point.

redsfanmia

12-05-2010, 07:14 PM

Over the last 4 the Colts have rushed for: 62, 76, 61 and 24. They have to be the worst rushing team in the NFL. I'm surprised they could even beat the Bengals, the Colts are just lucky to beat anyone.

The line is horrible and not going to get any better any time soon. I honestly think they need to re access the coaching staff in the off-season, the team is just not as sharp and make too many mistakes they did not make under Tony Dungy.

Razor Shines

12-05-2010, 07:15 PM

Longest run of the day!! 5 yards.

redsfanmia

12-05-2010, 07:22 PM

This is the 2001 team all over again, but Caldwell won't have any Jim Mora like rants.
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The best part of that rant never gets played, the part where Mora goes on and on about Manning throwing interceptions for touchdowns about he he thinks Manning has the record for most in a season.

Razor Shines

12-05-2010, 07:54 PM

This defense is so bad. It doesn't help that the Colts can't run the ball and therefore can't take any time off the clock to give 'em a break.

Razor Shines

12-05-2010, 08:10 PM

Looks like Peyton decided he's just gonna lean on Reggie as much as he possibly can.

Eric_the_Red

12-05-2010, 08:14 PM

That is two weeks in a row that Reggie has dropped a pass off his chest. Crazy.

Defense needs to step up huge here.

Eric_the_Red

12-05-2010, 08:25 PM

Stomach punch.

Razor Shines

12-05-2010, 08:25 PM

Screw it. Just lose out and try to get the best draft pick possible.

redsfanmia

12-05-2010, 08:30 PM

This team lacks discipline imo, the coaching staff has to take some heat.

kaldaniels

12-05-2010, 08:30 PM

Screw it. Just lose out and try to get the best draft pick possible.

Yeah...there are some nice QBs in next years draft.

I kid.

redsfanmia

12-05-2010, 09:03 PM

Razor Shines

12-05-2010, 09:44 PM

The Colts are 8-9 since they punted the perfect season against the J-E-T-S last season. Are the football gods paying them back for dishonoring them? Or was there damage done in the locker room and the players have no respect for Jim Caldwell seeing him only as a puppet for Bill naPolian?

I really don't think that has anything to do with it. They played well in the playoffs last year.

Healthy they're a good team, good enough to win their division, even with the porous line, but not good enough to sustain the injuries they've had.

redsfanmia

12-05-2010, 09:48 PM

I really don't think that has anything to do with it. They played well in the playoffs last year.

Healthy they're a good team, good enough to win their division, even with the porous line, but not good enough to sustain the injuries they've had.

I think you are right but I still say the coaching staff has taken a step back without Tony Dungy. I think they are missing Howard Mudd and Tom Moore as well.

Razor Shines

12-06-2010, 12:27 AM

I think you are right but I still say the coaching staff has taken a step back without Tony Dungy. I think they are missing Howard Mudd and Tom Moore as well.

I'm starting to come around to the idea that you are right about the mistakes having to do with coaching staff.

George Anderson

12-06-2010, 12:54 AM

I'm starting to come around to the idea that you are right about the mistakes having to do with coaching staff.

The leverage penalty by Foster during the field goal was unexcusable. That was an absolute bone headed move by someone who had to of known better. IMO that single play more than any other play cost the Colts the game. Instead of giving the Cowboys 3 that penalty happened and we instead gave them 8.

I am not one to gripe much about coaching but it is obvious this team is not overly disciplined.

chicoruiz

12-06-2010, 11:29 AM

Four notes:

1. Jim Caldwell still has the air of a substitute teacher about him. I don't think he's taken seriously by players or management.

2. Howard Mudd could make chicken salad out of chicken *** on the O-line. Pete Metzelaars can't.

3. Since the line gets overpowered at the point of attack, how about more pulling, trapping, etc...whatever happened to the "stretch play"?

4. For a genius, Bill Polian sure has whiffed on a lot of #1 draft choices lately.

redsfanmia

12-07-2010, 06:22 PM

redsfanmia

12-07-2010, 06:24 PM

The Colts bring back Dom Rhodes today, he will probably be the #1 back up Thursday night. I wonder if Marvin Harrison or Billy Brooks are the next man up at receiver?

TeamSelig

12-07-2010, 06:42 PM

Marvin is too busy murdering people to make a comeback to the NFL

redsfanmia

12-07-2010, 07:39 PM

Marvin is too busy murdering people to make a comeback to the NFL

Allegedly

Razor Shines

12-07-2010, 08:05 PM

I don't really get that move. The only thing I think that it might help is that Dom is probably a better pass blocker than Hart or Brown.

redsfanmia

12-07-2010, 08:24 PM

I don't really get that move. The only thing I think that it might help is that Dom is probably a better pass blocker than Hart or Brown.

Hart and Brown are both questionable for thursday and Addai is out so that leaves J James as our lone healthy back. Rhodes knows that play book, knows Manning and was leading the UFL in total yards. It was a good move IMO, probably should have been done weeks ago. Dom can help in the return game as well.

I wonder if they ever reached out to Edge? He can atleast help out in pass protection. I guess they really would not want to see an old Edge out there ruining his rep.

gilpdawg

12-08-2010, 06:10 AM

The Colts bring back Dom Rhodes today, he will probably be the #1 back up Thursday night. I wonder if Marvin Harrison or Billy Brooks are the next man up at receiver?
Matt Bouza and Clarence Verdin.

redsfanmia

12-08-2010, 12:13 PM

Matt Bouza and Clarence Verdin.

Bouza was great, I long for the days of Jesse Hester at receiver and Damon Watts at nickel corner.

Razor Shines

12-08-2010, 05:20 PM

I wonder what kind of shape Tarik Glenn is in. He lives in Indy. If he's in any decent shape the Colts should back a truck of cash up to his door and see if he finds his passion for football again. I bet Peyton would chip in a few mil.

Now that Bob Sanders is on the IR they have a roster spot.

Kingspoint

12-08-2010, 06:19 PM

One-quarter of the regular season left...the quarter that matters.

Odds of Peyton stepping carrying his team into the playoffs?

95%

Razor Shines

12-09-2010, 01:18 PM

One-quarter of the regular season left...the quarter that matters.

Odds of Peyton stepping carrying his team into the playoffs?

95%

Chances that Peyton is able to step up in the pocket to make a pass without being drilled?.....Not too good.

Razor Shines

12-09-2010, 01:20 PM

You Indy guys have probably already heard about this but I just heard about it today on Dan Patrick's show.

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/colts-radio-announcer-bob-lamey-rips-peyton-manning-off-air/42701

Colts Radio Announcer Bob Lamey Rips Peyton Manning Off-Air

Amidst Lamey’s rant was talk of NFL defenses having “figured Manning out” and that the Colts should start looking for his replacement in the 2011 draft. Lamey also expressed that he thought No. 18 should be benched in favor of Curtis Painter. That’s right, Curtis Painter. Manning has been horrible lately and thrown 11 picks in three games, but he’s still Peyton Manning.

Bob, you shouldn't talk with food in your mouth because it sounded like you said that the Colts should bench Manning and let Curtis Painter play.

Eric_the_Red

12-09-2010, 01:28 PM

Razor Shines

12-09-2010, 01:45 PM

Lamey should start scouring the want ads, I believe. (Although benching Manning for Painter to protect Peyton and let him heal up may not be far off.)

I would love for a win tonight, but I don't know....the Colts defense is swiss cheese at this point. And the offense isn't much better.

May be time to scrap 2010 and look forward to 2011.

Yeah, if they can't beat the Titans then they don't deserve to make the playoffs anyway.

Basically they're going to have to win out, including beating the Jags. I assume the Jags will also win out except against the Colts (with a lot of luck) and that would make their records against the division also tied. Then the tiebreaker moves to common opponents and if it comes down to that the Colts would have a 1 game advantage, assuming they win out of course and that's assuming a lot.

Razor Shines

12-10-2010, 03:26 AM

Is there any better example of the inexperience the Colts are dealing with than Blair White knocking an easy TD away from Reggie Wayne? That's two weeks in a row that Peyton has let White have it while they're running off the field.

I love Peyton though. He was pretty funny on the set with the NFL Network guys after the game. I like the fact that he says his poor play doesn't have anything to do with his young guys, I don't think for a second he actually believes it but I like the fact that he's not just pinning it on the young guys.

As for the game, the offense looked much better. Peyton only had to throw 35 times. Garcon played as well as he's played all season, IMO. He looked like the guy I thought he was going to be this year.

The defense....well they gave up 28 points to the Titans. I don't like their chances against Jax next week, but they do have some time maybe they'll get a little more healthy.

Eric_the_Red

12-10-2010, 07:22 AM

The rumors of Peyton Manning's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

I am encouraged about the offense. I actually think Garcon has looked good the last two games. Hopefully he keeps the trend up. If they get Collie and Addai back, watch out.

Of course, it may be like the old days when they were forced to outscore their opponents. The definitely need help in the secondary. I'm just not sure it's coming. Getting Session back would help too.

I'm not all that worried about Jacksonville. I think the Colts let them hang in the first game and win on a somewhat lucky field goal. At home, I think the Colts win. I'd just like to see the Raiders beat them on Sunday first.

RedsBaron

12-10-2010, 05:56 PM

You Indy guys have probably already heard about this but I just heard about it today on Dan Patrick's show.

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/colts-radio-announcer-bob-lamey-rips-peyton-manning-off-air/42701

Bob, you shouldn't talk with food in your mouth because it sounded like you said that the Colts should bench Manning and let Curtis Painter play.

Wow. Is Lamey the biggest idiot in the country or just the biggest idiot east of the Mississippi?

redsfanmia

12-10-2010, 06:20 PM

Wow. Is Lamey the biggest idiot in the country or just the biggest idiot east of the Mississippi?

He is just a huge fan who doubles as a PBP guy, the guy said something off air and a producer took the recording and released it to a local sports show. The producer should be fired as soon as it was found out who released it. Lamey just said what Colts fans at home were saying LOL.

Eric_the_Red

12-10-2010, 06:59 PM

He is just a huge fan who doubles as a PBP guy, the guy said something off air and a producer took the recording and released it to a local sports show. The producer should be fired as soon as it was found out who released it. Lamey just said what Colts fans at home were saying LOL.

I don't think many Colts fans were saying the league had figured out Manning and that Painter would be a better option. There's venting and then there is pure ignorance.

Eric_the_Red

12-11-2010, 09:41 AM

How cool is this interview?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-player-interviews/09000d5d81cc82bb/Manning-on-set?module=HP_video

Eric_the_Red

12-18-2010, 02:12 PM

Looks like Austin Collie will be back this week, just in time for the start of the Colts playoffs-before-the-playoffs run. Addai probably out again this week.

Razor Shines

12-18-2010, 02:24 PM

Looks like Austin Collie will be back this week, just in time for the start of the Colts playoffs-before-the-playoffs run. Addai probably out again this week.

I actually think that Collie over White will make an impact on the offense.

I'd like for Session to play this week, but it doesn't sound like he's going to.

Eric_the_Red

12-19-2010, 12:53 PM

Collie and Tamme are active. Addai and Hart are out.
Garrard and MJD are active. (They were questionable.)

Let's go Colts!

Razor Shines

12-19-2010, 02:24 PM

It's good to have Collie back.

Razor Shines

12-19-2010, 02:50 PM

Check that, it's awesome to have Collie back.

Eric_the_Red

12-19-2010, 03:29 PM

And there goes the season.....

Not that the refs weren't doing everything they could to take it from the Colts, but the Collie re-injury may be the nail in the coffin.

gilpdawg

12-19-2010, 07:59 PM

And there goes the season.....

Not that the refs weren't doing everything they could to take it from the Colts, but the Collie re-injury may be the nail in the coffin.
You know we won right?

Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

Razor Shines

12-19-2010, 10:06 PM

You know we won right?

Sent from my Liberty using Tapatalk

He sent that right after Collie got hurt. I was pretty pessimistic at that point as well.

Eric_the_Red

12-19-2010, 10:49 PM

^ Yep. And I still am pessimistic. After Collie was injured, the Colts had a very tough time moving the ball. I don't see how this team could be favored heading into Oakland.

Right now I am just hoping that Collie comes back healthy, whether that be this year or next. He is a great player and it would be a shame to see his career cut short.

As for the Colts, my faith rests in the defense playing as well next week as they did today, especially against the run, and then for the Titans to give up in week 17.

Although the Colts could split the next 2 games and still make the playoffs. If they lose to Oakland and beat Tennessee, Jacksonville has to lose one of their last two game. If the Colts beat the Raiders and lose to Tennessee, Jacksonville has to lose to Houston.

Todd Gack

12-20-2010, 04:01 PM

And there goes the season.....

Not that the refs weren't doing everything they could to take it from the Colts, but the Collie re-injury may be the nail in the coffin.

THe PI was definitely questionable.

But the 'free play' wasn't so questionable IMO if there was an inadvertant whistle before the play. I still have no idea what happened. Those were the only bad calls I saw. In the end, the better team won.

Eric_the_Red

12-20-2010, 04:43 PM

THe PI was definitely questionable.

But the 'free play' wasn't so questionable IMO if there was an inadvertant whistle before the play. I still have no idea what happened. Those were the only bad calls I saw. In the end, the better team won.

Agreed, But what about the fair catch/not fair catch play? If it wasn't a fair catch signal, it was clearly done to trick the Colts and bordered on unsportsmanlike conduct. His dive into the endzone at the end of the return was most definitely a penalty (just ask DeSean Jackson or Reggie Bush) but it was not flagged.

It just made the victory sweeter though. :D

Todd Gack

12-20-2010, 07:08 PM

Agreed, But what about the fair catch/not fair catch play? If it wasn't a fair catch signal, it was clearly done to trick the Colts and bordered on unsportsmanlike conduct. His dive into the endzone at the end of the return was most definitely a penalty (just ask DeSean Jackson or Reggie Bush) but it was not flagged.

It just made the victory sweeter though. :D

IMO, he made a poor effort at a fair catch signal, but the rule book states that the hand has to be waving above the head and the arm was clearly not above his head so it was a good no-call.

Razor Shines

12-22-2010, 06:05 PM

bucksfan2

12-23-2010, 10:46 AM

Collie goes to the IR. And they sign Safety Ken Hamlin.

That sucks about Collie, but you had to figure it was coming. No way do they let him go back out there and get concussed again this season.

I don't know how much Hamlin will help. I watched him play with Dallas a few times last year...seemed decent.

It won't happen but it would be refreshing to see the Colts tell Collie that his career is over and offer him a job within the organization. He suffered two nasty but legal hits. He may just be a guy who is prone to head injuries.

Razor Shines

12-24-2010, 12:12 PM

Addai says he's playing tomorrow. Good news. Probably a wash with losing Collie.

Eric_the_Red

12-27-2010, 01:42 PM

Okay, so my "sky is falling" post during the Collie injury aftermath seems to have been premature. The last two weeks I have been very impressed by the passion shown by this team, especially the defense.

Peyton is still struggling with Collie and Clark down, but hopefully the return of Addai and Dom can provide enough of a spark rushing the ball to help the passing game.

Special teams continues to be atrocious. One more week to get that into shape.

The season comes down to this week, at home against the Titans. Win and the AFC South championship belongs to the Colts. A loss and a Jaguars win, and the Colts are sitting at home. Truthfully, if they can't beat the Titans at home they don't deserve the playoff spot.

So, I'll be rooting for the Colts and Raiders this week. If Oakland beats KC, the Colts get the #3 seed in the playoffs. They will play either the Jets, Ravens or Steelers.

Razor Shines

12-27-2010, 03:00 PM

The running game looked decent yesterday. I'm actually fairly impressed with Rhodes, I think he and Addai are a nice mix.

One of Peyton's picks hit Garcon in the chest, so that's kinda frustrating.

And the defense looked good as well.

I agree if they can't beat the Titans in Indy then they don't deserve the playoffs. Fisher will be ready though, this is his Super Bowl. I expect a lot of tricks and probably an onside kick in the first quarter, maybe even to start the game if the Colts win the toss.

Eric_the_Red

12-27-2010, 07:25 PM

Guess who has two tickets on the 50 for the Colts wild card round playoff game?

:thumbup:

Redsfan320

12-28-2010, 09:51 AM

Guess who has two tickets on the 50 for the Colts wild card round playoff game?

Sweet. Sounds like fun.

320

Eric_the_Red

12-31-2010, 06:42 PM

The Colts’ Friday injury report is as follows:

FULL PARTICIPATION
DT-Eric Foster (Biceps)
DE-Dwight Freeney (rested)
RB-Mike Hart (ankle)
OT-Charlie Johnson (groin)
DE-Robert Mathis (rested)

LIMITED PARTICIPATION
DT-Dan Muir (chest)
C-Jeff Saturday (hip)
LB-Clint Session (elbow)

DID NOT PARTICIPATE
DB-Al Afalava (ankle)
DB-Kelvin Hayden (neck)
OG-Jaimie Thomas (ankle)

Getting Hart and Session back would be nice. It seems like (aside from Collie, Clark and Sanders obviously) the Colts are getting healthy at precisely the right time. I wonder if teams in the playoffs (I'm assuming they'll get in) may overlook them based on their regular season struggles.

Eric_the_Red

01-02-2011, 08:46 PM

http://www.coltsproshoponline.com/images/products/5426_large.jpg

The Colts will host the Jets Saturday night at 8:00. I can't wait! Hopefully the Colts will be 2-0 in playoff games that I've attended. Now, to make some reservations at Weber Grill. :)

George Anderson

01-02-2011, 09:24 PM

Razor Shines

01-02-2011, 09:40 PM

Have you been to Weber Grill before?? We went a couple weeks ago and it was very bad.

We've been to the one in Chicago a couple times and we liked it a lot, but can't speak for the one in Indy.

Eric_the_Red

01-02-2011, 10:17 PM

Have you been to Weber Grill before?? We went a couple weeks ago and it was very bad.

Twice. We enjoyed it both times. Plus we ate there last year before the Colts won their playoff game vs. Baltimore so we are hoping for a similar evening.

HeatherC1212

01-02-2011, 10:58 PM

Congrats to the Colts! They've had a hard year so I'm glad things came together enough for them to win their division. Now I have at least one team to root for in the playoffs. :thumbup:

oneupper

01-03-2011, 07:21 AM

As a Dolphins fan, I hate the Jets with a burning passion. Please beat them.

Razor Shines

01-03-2011, 02:33 PM

Well Manning got some guys healthy and finished the last four games looking pretty good. 9 TDs, 2 INTs, and completed 67% of his passes. Finished the season with 33 TDs and 17 INTs, pretty much what he did last year. Who thought I would be right when I said this back in the midst of the dark days?:

He was having one of the best seasons of his career half way through the season. Maybe he just started to decline and maybe it was just a coincidence that his poor play has started when his offensive skill positions have been decimated.

I guess it depends on your definition of top shelf. When his guys are healthy I still put him right there with Brady, Brees, Rivers, Rogers and Vick. Now, it could be that he's getting tired, he's only two games worth of passes from attempting more passes than he did all of last season. His picks are high right now but he's had some unlucky ones and I'll bet that will level out by the end of the year. He'll likely finish with his standard 30-33 TDs and 15-18 picks.

I think the really big thing though was that he just didn't have to throw as much. In the last 4 games he attempted 36 passes per compared to the first 12 where he attempted 41 passes per. I don't know many QBs that can be successful in that situation. Just look at Drew Brees. 41+ attempts per game for the season and 22 INTs, I don't think he's on the down side of his career.

Redsfan320

01-03-2011, 11:11 PM

Can we say the Colts have the official backing of RedsZone in the playoffs?

GO COLTS!

I got half a notion to break back out the laptop and do some PBP, which I'm yearning to do so very badly.

320

blumj

01-03-2011, 11:23 PM

I think Rex Ryan wants revenge. Or, maybe something else, I'm not sure.

"You lose a playoff game, it's devastating," he continued. "I want to put the shoe on the other foot. I know this team does, too."

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5984501

Razor Shines

01-03-2011, 11:51 PM

I think Rex Ryan wants revenge. Or, maybe something else, I'm not sure.

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5984501

Heyooo

bucksfan2

01-04-2011, 10:00 AM

Can we say the Colts have the official backing of RedsZone in the playoffs?

GO COLTS!

I got half a notion to break back out the laptop and do some PBP, which I'm yearning to do so very badly.

320

NO. Not from this Red Zoner.

Redsfan320

01-04-2011, 03:43 PM

NO. Not from this Red Zoner.

Don't get me wrong, I start off every season caring more about the Bengals, but I always switch to Colts when playoffs roll around (or usually earlier). Or is it another team, perhaps one in the playoffs this year, who you root for?

320

Razor Shines

01-04-2011, 10:31 PM

Jets' Trevor Pryce would rather play Indy.

Trevor Pryce, who played for the Denver Broncos from 1997-2005, said Arrowhead is tougher to play in than Indy's Lucas Oil Dome.

"Peyton Manning, he's as good as there is," Pryce said on 1050 ESPN's "MacDonald and Tierney Show" Tuesday (via Newsday) "He's the best there ever was, him or Tom Brady. And when he starts losing receivers like Austin Collie and tight end Dallas Clark, who is all-world, he's replacing them.

"But you can only replace them so much. The Chiefs don't have that problem. And playing in Kansas City , I can tell you from firsthand experience, it's much tougher playing in Kansas City than playing in Indianapolis."

redsfanmia

01-09-2011, 09:40 AM

The injuries were just too much to overcome, the season has to be considered a success just by making the play offs.

I still question the coaching staff, Clyde Christianson should go IMO and the special teams coach should be let go as well. I know no coaches will be let go though. The most glaring need is the offensive line and I wish they could find someone to actually gain yards on kick and punt returns.

SunDeck

01-09-2011, 12:22 PM

I enjoyed watching the Colts overcome all the injuries this year. Just getting to this point took an enormous amount of work and it points to a solid program that can accomplish that. Compare it to the way the Bengals tanked this year, and you have a pretty compelling comparison of the relative competencies of the two clubs.

Razor Shines

01-09-2011, 01:36 PM

The thing is if they don't sit on the ball before the half they have a good shot to win. They could have put their boot on the Jets' neck.

Seems like Caldwell played not to lose.

Oxblood

01-09-2011, 02:33 PM

Anyone catch Manning at the end of the game? Looks like he was arguing with someone or maybe he was just complaining about something or other. Definitely doesn't have the best sportsmanship.

Razor Shines

01-09-2011, 02:42 PM

Oxblood

01-09-2011, 03:33 PM

How the hell would you know?

Deductive reasoning. I watch television.

redsfanmia

01-09-2011, 03:45 PM

Anyone catch Manning at the end of the game? Looks like he was arguing with someone or maybe he was just complaining about something or other. Definitely doesn't have the best sportsmanship.

He just lost a game in which his special teams and defense let him down and yet he will be blamed for the loss, would you be happy?

Oxblood

01-09-2011, 03:48 PM

He just lost a game in which his special teams and defense let him down and yet he will be blamed for the loss, would you be happy?

Keep it under control until you get to the locker room. But nobody's ever accused him of having good sportsmanship. No biggie I guess. His legacy is already tarnished after the sb loss last season.

UKFlounder

01-09-2011, 04:24 PM

Razor Shines

01-09-2011, 04:33 PM

Deductive reasoning. I watch television.

Oh, you're one of those...my bad. You probably thought Adam Dunn didn't care about losing because you saw him smiling in the dugout after a loss once too, right?

Sorry I gave any time to your posts.

Razor Shines

01-09-2011, 04:35 PM

His special teams and defense held the Jets to 17 points, but Peyton and his offense only scored 1 TD and settled for 3 FGs.

If the Colts hold an opponent to just 17 points, they should win the game but they just could not do so yesterday with so many 2nd stringers playing.

They did enough that they should have won, the Jets have a pretty good D. The big thing for me though is sitting on the ball before the half.....I just can't get past that coaching mistake.

I will say that if the Jets' had a decent QB that game probably wouldn't have been very close at all. Sanchez let the Colts off the hook several times.

George Anderson

01-09-2011, 04:39 PM

Keep it under control until you get to the locker room. But nobody's ever accused him of having good sportsmanship. No biggie I guess. His legacy is already tarnished after the sb loss last season.

Assuming you aren't here trolling. No one with any credibility has ever questioned Manning's sportsmanship or character. He is about as perfect of an example that you can find of what a professional athlete should be on and off the field.

Oxblood

01-09-2011, 04:54 PM

Oh, you're one of those...my bad. You probably thought Adam Dunn didn't care about losing because you saw him smiling in the dugout after a loss once too, right?

Sorry I gave any time to your posts.

Lol. You probably thought Dunn & Griffey were good for the team.

No offense but the Colts just weren't that good of a team this season, they are where they belong.

Oxblood

01-09-2011, 04:57 PM

Assuming you aren't here trolling. No one with any credibility has ever questioned Manning's sportsmanship or character. He is about as perfect of an example that you can find of what a professional athlete should be on and off the field.

He is gracious in victory and a cry-baby in defeat. Don't get me wrong, he's one of the better qb's in the league.

redsfanmia

01-09-2011, 05:15 PM

His special teams and defense held the Jets to 17 points, but Peyton and his offense only scored 1 TD and settled for 3 FGs.

If the Colts hold an opponent to just 17 points, they should win the game but they just could not do so yesterday with so many 2nd stringers playing.

The offense only had 3 possessions in the second half, he lead scoring drives on each of them, including a drive that put them ahead. The special teams then allowed a 40+ yard kick off return and the defense could not get the Jets off the field to allow more possessions, I would say that caused the loss.

The Colts were so banged up all year just making the play-offs was a great accomplishment but it is still disappointing to lose in that fashion.

Roy Tucker

01-09-2011, 05:31 PM

So why did the Colts call time-out with 29 seconds left?

I really couldn't figure that one out.

redsfanmia

01-09-2011, 05:37 PM

So why did the Colts call time-out with 29 seconds left?

I really couldn't figure that one out.

Because Jim Caldwell is not that great of a coach, he had a reason that made no sense to anyone.

Eric_the_Red

01-09-2011, 06:22 PM

Wow, this thread makes it painfully obvious that this is a baseball site and not a football site. Needless to say, certain posters will be ignored by me fairly quickly.

Anyway, onto the game...

I'm glad this is a written forum, because my voice is still recovering. I was a loud and proud member of the 12th man last night, and Lucas Oil was rocking! A testament to the Indy fans that they stayed so loud, despite a game with little action in the first half.

The offense: Peyton Manning showed why he is the best in the game. No mistakes, didn't force anything. He just didn't have the weapons this season. With Clark and Collie healthy, I think the outcome is much different. That said, I though Blair White looked good yesterday, and Dom Rhodes was fired up.

The defense: I don't really blame the defense for the loss. Sure, they were porous in the second half, but they had a very solid first half. I think they may have simply been worn out, having to play short-handed and playing a physical team like the Jets is even more difficult when the offense has trouble sustaining drives. The defense had 10 players go on IR this year. Ten! For them to reach this point is somewhat miraculous. That said, they need some help next year, especially the tackles and secondary.

Special Teams: Awful. Just atrocious play. Aside from Vinatieri, there is no player on the Colts special teams that should feel secure in their job. They have no threat returning kicks and to give up the huge return to the Jets that led to the FG is inexcusable. I think the injuries on the team led to a lot of players on special teams that had no business being there. Hoping for a big improvement next year.

Coaching: As much as I like Caldwell's calm demeanor, I think it is time for him to go. It seems he is doing his best to act like Tony Dungy, but he simply doesn't have the football acumen to pull it off. As bad as not trying to get some points before halftime was, the final timeout in the game was worse. You would think he would've learned after the debacle in Jacksonville, but obviously not. I think it is time for a change, despite a Super Bowl appearance and division title in his two years. (Jason Whitlock is speculating that Jon Gruden may get the some. I'm not sure Gruden is the right fit, however.)

redsfanmia

01-09-2011, 06:41 PM

No way Polian gets rid of Caldwell, he should imo but he won't. I think that Clyde Christianson should get shown the gate with an outsider(with Petyon's blessing) coming in as OC, I just don't think Manning respects him at all. Ray R (long name can't spell it) the special teams coach should be gone with him. With all that said the front office loves continuity and Polian has said this year Caldwell has done as good as job as he as ever seen as a head coach so no changes will be made.

Razor Shines

01-09-2011, 07:08 PM

Nice post ER.

Yeah, I don't see any way that Caldwell gets fired. I would hope that some of the coaches will go but if Irsay has much say about it then they won't. He's basically been saying as much on twitter.

George Anderson

01-09-2011, 07:10 PM

I think the only way Caldwell is gone and I am on the fence with him is if Manning goes to Irsay and demands it. As angry as Manning looked last night after the game I wouldn't be to suprised if that happens. I wasn't a big fan of Caldwell being hired because he lacked past NFL HC experience. Caldwell did do a nice job overcoming alot of adversity with injuries but things like the TO called at the end of the game screams that he has much to learn with game management.

UKFlounder

01-09-2011, 08:48 PM

Yes, but those scoring drives ended in too many field goals and not enough touchdowns.

Obviously, the kick return & the Jets' last drive were what won the game for them and the Colts defense & special teams deserve criticism for that, but their offense was not flawless itself. I think they should do better than one TD in a game, but, they did come through with the scoring drive in the clutch, only to see the other units fail to repeat that clutch performan ce

The offense only had 3 possessions in the second half, he lead scoring drives on each of them, including a drive that put them ahead. The special teams then allowed a 40+ yard kick off return and the defense could not get the Jets off the field to allow more possessions, I would say that caused the loss.

The Colts were so banged up all year just making the play-offs was a great accomplishment but it is still disappointing to lose in that fashion.

UKFlounder

01-09-2011, 08:51 PM

I don't follow the Colts (Bungles fan) but I heard someone say that some of the special teams problems were because their special teams players had to go play defense (or offense) because of the injuries, so they had to sign guys off the street to help with the special teams. It was kind of a ripple effect caused by the injuries. How true is that?

Special Teams: Awful. Just atrocious play. Aside from Vinatieri, there is no player on the Colts special teams that should feel secure in their job. They have no threat returning kicks and to give up the huge return to the Jets that led to the FG is inexcusable. I think the injuries on the team led to a lot of players on special teams that had no business being there. Hoping for a big improvement next year.

Redsfan320

01-09-2011, 10:48 PM

I'm glad this is a written forum, because my voice is still recovering. I was a loud and proud member of the 12th man last night, and Lucas Oil was rocking! A testament to the Indy fans that they stayed so loud, despite a game with little action in the first half.

They seemed pumped! Seems like a great atmosphere at Lucas Oil. Hope to make it up there for a game some day!

320

Eric_the_Red

01-10-2011, 07:32 AM

I don't follow the Colts (Bungles fan) but I heard someone say that some of the special teams problems were because their special teams players had to go play defense (or offense) because of the injuries, so they had to sign guys off the street to help with the special teams. It was kind of a ripple effect caused by the injuries. How true is that?

Absolutely. With so many injuries, especially to the defense, some of the linebackers and safeties that normally play special teams had to start or saw an increase in their playing time. The Colts were forced to bring in a lot of practice squad guys, rookies, unsigned free agents and anyone else with a pulse.

It has been determined that the Colts will pick 22nd in the draft, their lowest pick since since 2002 when they drafted Dwight Freeney 11th overall. In 2003 the Colts picked 23rd and landed Dallas Clark. Needless to say, I'd be thrilled if they were to land a player as good as either of those two.

HoosierRedsFan

01-10-2011, 09:02 AM

kaldaniels

01-10-2011, 03:53 PM

I love Dungy as a person and all that he did but in truth he is the most overrated or underachieving coach in modern times. The talent he had at Tampa and he couldn't coach them to the SB....and with the Colts he had the best team in the league at least 4 times and won the SB once. Caldwell seems of the same mold.

Caldwell may seem like a dunce, but after listening to all the knashing of teeth about injuries by Colts fans...how far did you expect him to go? I'd say winning the division and going one and out is exactly where I'd expect this team to end up. They didn't overacheive nor did they underacheive...they just....acheived.

Razor Shines

01-10-2011, 03:56 PM

Saying someone should have had x number of rings is silly. Once you get a couple rounds deep into the playoffs its pretty random, lucky bounces and good players win the games as my soccer coach used to say. I don't think a coach other than Dungy wins any more sbs.

Bellichick may be a good enough coach to make a difference but you can hardly blame dungy for not being as good as him....no one else is either.

I think dungy is a much better coach than caldwell. I don't think he sits on the ball before the half. Dungy's first instinct may have been to do that but I think he's smart enough to let peyton talk him into going for a score.

bucksfan2

01-10-2011, 04:25 PM

Agree with those who think Caldwell is in over his head. Some are great assistants but lack the skills to be generals.

I love Dungy as a person and all that he did but in truth he is the most overrated or underachieving coach in modern times. The talent he had at Tampa and he couldn't coach them to the SB....and with the Colts he had the best team in the league at least 4 times and won the SB once. Caldwell seems of the same mold.

Couldn't agree more with this statement. I never thought that Dungy was a good coach. IMO as a head coach he underachieved with one of the great QB's of all time. His holier than thou persona on TV now has started to annoy me. The whole Rex Ryan thing this off season was blown way out of proportion. He was a good coach that seemed to get out coached in the bigger moments.

True, injuries are part of the downfall of the team this year, but lack of coaching, scheme, and adjustments were huge. When Caldwell was hired, the coaching staff realigned, coach Moore wasn't to call the plays any longer I anticipated a great change in play calling and style of play. I was completley in error. Same old tired system. If I know what's coming most of the time, it's not hard to think the opposition doesn't have an idea.

Injuries happen. They happen to every team in football. I don't agree with they way they were constantly brought up this season and used as crutch by the Colts. As for Caldwell I think he was handpicked by Dungy because they had the same philosophy and similar personalities. Im not so sure that a change in style wouldn't have done the Colts good.

Bottom line is the Colts should have at least 3 rings. This was not a SB winning year with the injuries but it was a win at home against a one-dimensional Jets team year. Polian, Dungy, and now Dungy-lite continue to oversell and underacheive. Bill will say in his next column....."great credit to the Jets for forcing our super-intelligent coach into a time-out with 29 seconds left and the clock running. Great strategy by our coaching staff"

The Colts sure had the talent to have won more than one Super Bowl. For a handful of years they were the best team in football only to get beaten by the better coached football teams. I would also throw Manning as one of those guys to underachieve. He will go down as one of the great QB's in NFL history but to me he will always be a guy who left a handful of big games on the table.

Razor Shines

01-10-2011, 04:38 PM

:rolleyes:

redsfanmia

01-10-2011, 04:50 PM

Couldn't agree more with this statement. I never thought that Dungy was a good coach. IMO as a head coach he underachieved with one of the great QB's of all time. His holier than thou persona on TV now has started to annoy me. The whole Rex Ryan thing this off season was blown way out of proportion. He was a good coach that seemed to get out coached in the bigger moments.

Check out Dungy's record then decide if he is a "good coach". I do agree about the persona but to call Tony Dungy not even a "good coach" is laughable.

Eric_the_Red

01-10-2011, 05:20 PM

:rolleyes:

Exactly.

John Elway started his career 7-8 in playoff games, and we know how that ended up.

Favre is 13-11 in playoff games, a number Manning could easily reach.

Dan Marino retired at 8-10. What a choke artist.

And Walter Payton was only 4-5 in the playoffs. I guess he isn't one of the best RB of all time.

Nothing is sillier to me than a individual's W-L record in a team sport.

Eric_the_Red

01-10-2011, 05:22 PM

And Tony Dungy's character is not a "persona" or an act, IMO. Not sure why some are annoyed when a person with high integrity and character is celebrated for that fact. It is an all too rare occurrence, IMO.

kaldaniels

01-10-2011, 05:54 PM

And it played out just like that -- with one unforeseen problem. With 62 seconds left and at the Jet 32, Manning had a third-and-six. He rolled right and picked out Blair White (the wrong guy, I thought), who was closely covered just beyond the first-down marker. Manning threw it anyway. The Jets had two timeouts left. A perfect throw would have converted the first down and allowed the Colts to run the clock down to the single digits and call their final timeout so Vinatieri could do what he was famous for -- make a winning kick in one of the biggest games of the year. But just like everything in this Indianapolis season, the throw was a little off. A little low. White tried to scoop it in, but it hit the ground. Incomplete.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/01/09/wild-card/index.html#ixzz1AfhL9x42

Agree/Disagree?

The Colts would not have gotten where they did without Manning, but his performance was good, not great yesterday.

Cue the kaldaniels hates Peyton Manning and Peter King is an idiot remarks.

Eric_the_Red

01-10-2011, 07:57 PM

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/01/09/wild-card/index.html#ixzz1AfhL9x42

Agree/Disagree?

The Colts would not have gotten where they did without Manning, but his performance was good, not great yesterday.

Cue the kaldaniels hates Peyton Manning and Peter King is an idiot remarks.

I guess. On the play discussed, what were Manning's other options? His turning into a diva, #1 WR who was being blanketed by Revis? A backup TE that had a very drops already?

I would have liked to have seen them try another quick slant to Garcon, but they went to that well a few times already in the game.

Bottom line: with Manning the Colts won the division. Without him this team is drafting in Bills/Bengals territory.

RedsBaron

01-10-2011, 09:55 PM

Razor Shines

01-11-2011, 12:53 AM

I guess. On the play discussed, what were Manning's other options? His turning into a diva, #1 WR who was being blanketed by Revis? A backup TE that had a very drops already?

I would have liked to have seen them try another quick slant to Garcon, but they went to that well a few times already in the game.

Bottom line: with Manning the Colts won the division. Without him this team is drafting in Bills/Bengals territory.

Yeah. A banged up O line that's not very good anyway. No running game. 3rd and 4th stringers all over the offense. Manning played pretty well yesterday.

He threw a catchable but not perfect ball to White. That one pass didn't really define the type of game he had. Against that D he knew what kind of game it was going to be and didn't force the issue.

Also, I'd bet my house he wanted to go for a score before the half.

HoosierRedsFan

01-11-2011, 08:40 AM

Caldwell may seem like a dunce, but after listening to all the knashing of teeth about injuries by Colts fans...how far did you expect him to go? I'd say winning the division and going one and out is exactly where I'd expect this team to end up. They didn't overacheive nor did they underacheive...they just....acheived.

I expected them to win at home. I expected Caldwell try to put points on the board at the end of the first half instead on just running out the clock. I didn't however expect Caldwell to take a timeout when he did at the end of the game and help the Jets out. Was that too much to expect?

HoosierRedsFan

01-11-2011, 08:49 AM

Check out Dungy's record then decide if he is a "good coach". I do agree about the persona but to call Tony Dungy not even a "good coach" is laughable.

Good Coach yes but not great. He's been to the playoffs nine times and had six 1 and dones. I understand things happen and you can't win them all but six 1 and dones seems excessive

Regular Season:

Wins 169 Loses 69 Winning % .668

Playoffs:

Wins 9 Loses 10 Winning % .474

bucksfan2

01-11-2011, 09:17 AM

Good Coach yes but not great. He's been to the playoffs nine times and had six 1 and dones. I understand things happen and you can't win them all but six 1 and dones seems excessive

Regular Season:

Wins 169 Loses 69 Winning % .668

Playoffs:

Wins 9 Loses 10 Winning % .474

Good and great coaches are decided by what they do in the playoffs. Dungy was a poor playoff coach. He is a heck of a regular season coach but you don't call you season successful by just getting to the playoffs.

kaldaniels

01-11-2011, 10:04 AM

I expected them to win at home. I expected Caldwell try to put points on the board at the end of the first half instead on just running out the clock. I didn't however expect Caldwell to take a timeout when he did at the end of the game and help the Jets out. Was that too much to expect?

I'm talking big picture here and you are not. If you want to say he is a terrible gameday coach and helped blow that game which was quite winnable I'm on board.

But if you step back and say here are the players he had and here is the end season result, I can't say underacheiver is what comes to mind.

Eric_the_Red

01-11-2011, 12:27 PM

Good Coach yes but not great. He's been to the playoffs nine times and had six 1 and dones. I understand things happen and you can't win them all but six 1 and dones seems excessive

Regular Season:

Wins 169 Loses 69 Winning % .668

Playoffs:

Wins 9 Loses 10 Winning % .474

Judging by the respective sample sizes, which do you think is the outlier? I know what my vote is.

redsfanmia

01-11-2011, 12:41 PM

Good and great coaches are decided by what they do in the playoffs. Dungy was a poor playoff coach. He is a heck of a regular season coach but you don't call you season successful by just getting to the playoffs.

John Madden was 9-7 in the playoffs
Don Shula was 19-17 in the playoffs
Tom Landry was 20-16 in the playoffs
Bill Parcells was 11-8 in the playoffs
Paul Brown was 9-8 in the play offs.

Barely over .500% in the play-offs, are they just average coaches because of their average playoff records?

kaldaniels

01-11-2011, 12:51 PM

Good Coach yes but not great. He's been to the playoffs nine times and had six 1 and dones. I understand things happen and you can't win them all but six 1 and dones seems excessive

You Colts fans are an extremely sensitive fan base. How can you dispute what Hoosier wrote above? Tony Dungy was knocked out in the first game 2/3 of the time he coached in the playoffs. Good, not great. (Great regular season coach I will add) What is so hard to swallow about that?

Razor Shines

01-11-2011, 12:58 PM

You Colts fans are an extremely sensitive fan base. How can you dispute what Hoosier wrote above? Tony Dungy was knocked out in the first game 2/3 of the time he coached in the playoffs. Good, not great. (Great regular season coach I will add) What is so hard to swallow about that?

What team do you root for? Kind of interesting that you disappeared from this thread while the Colts were on their 4 winning streak to make the playoffs and then your right back after they lose in the playoffs.

Cedric

01-11-2011, 01:00 PM

I don't like Dungy but playoff wins are not a good way to base any manager/player. Long playoffs in sports are something relatively new to the landscape and have taken away from regular seasons. It's much more impressive when a manager/team sustains and wins a division throughout a whole season.

kaldaniels

01-11-2011, 01:40 PM

What team do you root for? Kind of interesting that you disappeared from this thread while the Colts were on their 4 winning streak to make the playoffs and then your right back after they lose in the playoffs.

I root for the Browns, who have put terrible product on the field and I have no problem saying that.

I made my statement about Manning and how I would rather have several other guys than him start for me in 2011. I plan on revisting that next season. I even stated than when he was playing not so well in a game after I made my remarks I said "I'm not gonna judge him on 1 game".

I've been around but have had nothing to add. I watched Eric the Red (I believe it was him) proclaim the season over a few weeks back. Humorous.

I stepped in after the playoff loss and read that Caldwell underacheived. I disagree and said so.

I read how Peyton Manning is the best in the game and the playoff game was one of his best games of the year (I wouldn't even put it in top-5), and threw out a little evidence that said otherwise.

Finally (actually Hoosier) said Dungy is a great regular season coach and a good not great coach when you step back and incorporate playoff performance. And he gets drug over the coals for saying so so I supported him. (Which is the kiss of death)

Kudos to the Colts for making it this far with all the injuries. They were in position to win that game the other night and it didn't happen. I understand how you guys are upset but like I said, all injuries considered, when you step back and look at the big picture, how far did you expect to make it?

redsfanmia

01-11-2011, 01:56 PM

You Colts fans are an extremely sensitive fan base. How can you dispute what Hoosier wrote above? Tony Dungy was knocked out in the first game 2/3 of the time he coached in the playoffs. Good, not great. (Great regular season coach I will add) What is so hard to swallow about that?

I agree that Colts fanbase is sensitive, the problem with the fanbase is that once Manning is gone there will be an abundance of empty seats in that gigantic barn they call a stadium and a ton of Colts stuff at Goodwill. There were not many Colts fans in 1997 but yet in 1999 you could not get a seat.

Who cares if Manning the greatest quarterback in the league, he is pretty damn good, an all time great.

Razor Shines

01-11-2011, 02:13 PM

Razor Shines

01-11-2011, 02:20 PM

Eric_the_Red

01-11-2011, 02:24 PM

I've been around but have had nothing to add. I watched Eric the Red (I believe it was him) proclaim the season over a few weeks back. Humorous.

I stepped in after the playoff loss and read that Caldwell underacheived. I disagree and said so.

If I could ddefend myself, my proclaimation was made minutes after Austin Collie was injured for the third time with a concussion.. Part of it was reaction over the rotten luck with injuries the team has had, part was being genuinely upset over seeing a great kid/talent like Collie possibly having his career ended, and part was an honest observation based on how the Colts were playing at that point, espcially without Collie.

I think the team overachieved in making the playoffs, not just Caldwell. I challenge anyone to name a team that could lose 10 defensive players to IR, their all-pro TE for most of the season, and the #1 RB for half the year (among many other injuries) and still make the playoffs.

I honestly felt at that time if they made the playoffs it would be a minor miracle, and it was. I think the fans reaction to Caldwell stems from how he did his best to blow the playoff game. Sometimes it is hard to separate emotion and reasonable analysis (see the comments following the Reds' playoff losses for evidence of this).

Is Peyton washed up? Hardly. Are there 10 QBs better than him in the NFL? Absolutely not. Will his starts start to decline every year for the rest of his career? Entirely possible. But I would argue that he is just as likely to win another MVP next season.

Is Caldwell a bad coach? No. Is he the coach I would like for the Colts? No.

Razor Shines

01-11-2011, 02:26 PM

I think the team overachieved in making the playoffs, not just Caldwell. I challenge anyone to name a team that could lose 10 defensive players to IR, their all-pro TE for most of the season, and the #1 RB for half the year (among many other injuries) and still make the playoffs.

I honestly felt at that time if they made the playoffs it would be a minor miracle, and it was. I think the fans reaction to Caldwell stems from how he did his best to blow the playoff game. Sometimes it is hard to separate emotion and reasonable analysis (see the comments following the Reds' playoff losses for evidence of this).

Is Peyton washed up? Hardly. Are there 10 QBs better than him in the NFL? Absolutely not. Will his starts start to decline every year for the rest of his career? Entirely possible. But I would argue that he is just as likely to win another MVP next season.

Is Caldwell a bad coach? No. Is he the coach I would like for the Colts? No.

I pretty much agree with all of this.

Also, I defended Caldwell for most of the season, but I really do think he made some mistakes in that playoff game that were pretty bad.

redsfanmia

01-11-2011, 02:31 PM

Yeah thats generally happens when you go from putting a crappy team to a good team on the field. You think it's all about Manning? If he's gone but the Colts are still a good team then people will show up. If they suck then yeah it's probably gonna be empty.

It's not all about Peyton. There were sooo many people who hated Manning his first season.

I do not remember any Manning hatred his first year, I remember everyone being excited because we had a legit young quarterback for the first time since the Colts moved here.

I remember going to the games in the late 80's and early 90's when no one wore jersey's and most of the women knitted to kill time during the games. Manning has brought the women and kids on board. He and the success he has brought has built the fanbase.

Had the Colts drafted Leaf instead of Manning in 1998 do you think the Colts franchise would still be here in Indy? I seriously doubt it, without Manning the new stadium does not get built IMO.

Razor Shines

01-11-2011, 02:39 PM

I do not remember any Manning hatred his first year, I remember everyone being excited because we had a legit young quarterback for the first time since the Colts moved here.

I remember going to the games in the late 80's and early 90's when no one wore jersey's and most of the women knitted to kill time during the games. Manning has brought the women and kids on board. He and the success he has brought has built the fanbase.

Had the Colts drafted Leaf instead of Manning in 1998 do you think the Colts franchise would still be here in Indy? I seriously doubt it, without Manning the new stadium does not get built IMO.

Was it Manning or the fact that they've been one of the top franchises in football? I remember those days when no one went to the games as well but the Colts mostly sucked. The one year when the Colts made that deep playoff run with Harbaugh everybody was a Colts fan. I remember going to the airport with my parents when the team arrived home from KC. It was packed with people.

If they had drafted Leaf and continued to suck then yeah they may have moved.

I think that yes Manning is a HUGE part of the success they've had but I think it's the success more than Manning that has brought the fans in.

RedsBaron

01-11-2011, 02:56 PM

John Madden was 9-7 in the playoffs
Don Shula was 19-17 in the playoffs
Tom Landry was 20-16 in the playoffs
Bill Parcells was 11-8 in the playoffs
Paul Brown was 9-8 in the play offs.

Barely over .500% in the play-offs, are they just average coaches because of their average playoff records?
Sid Gillman was a great innovator who went 1-5 in postseason play.
Don Coryell was another innovator: 3-6 in the postseason.
George Allen went 2-7.
Bud Grant coached the Vikings to four Super Bowls, but lost all four and went 10-12 in the postseason.
Bill Cowher is apparently in demand as a coach but was only 12-9 in the postseason.
Dick Vermeil coached two Super Bowl teams and won one, but was only 6-5 overall in postseason play.

Revering4Blue

01-11-2011, 03:49 PM

You can put blame for this one squarely on coach

Colts coach Jim Caldwell should be commended for getting his team into the playoffs with 18 players, including stars tight end Dallas Clark, safety Bob Sanders, receiver Austin Collie and cornerback Kelvin Hayden on season-ending injured reserve, and sometimes spotty play from quarterback Peyton Manning.

But that’s all the praise Caldwell will get from this corner, and all he should get for a long time.

The Colts’ 17-16 loss to the New York Jets in Saturday’s wild-card playoff game at Lucas Oil Stadium is squarely on the coach’s shoulders.

Read on..

http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20110110/SPORTS0204/301109975/1029/SPORTS02

redsfanmia

01-11-2011, 05:17 PM

Was it Manning or the fact that they've been one of the top franchises in football? I remember those days when no one went to the games as well but the Colts mostly sucked. The one year when the Colts made that deep playoff run with Harbaugh everybody was a Colts fan. I remember going to the airport with my parents when the team arrived home from KC. It was packed with people.

If they had drafted Leaf and continued to suck then yeah they may have moved.

I think that yes Manning is a HUGE part of the success they've had but I think it's the success more than Manning that has brought the fans in.

Bottom line is the Colts are good because of Manning, you put Carson Palmer (an NFL average quarterback) on this team and they go 3-13 or 4-12.

The Colts are successful mainly because of Manning period. If Peyton Manning was not playing for the Colts there is no way the city builds that monstrosity of a stadium.

redsfanmia

01-11-2011, 05:19 PM

Sid Gillman was a great innovator who went 1-5 in postseason play.
Don Coryell was another innovator: 3-6 in the postseason.
George Allen went 2-7.
Bud Grant coached the Vikings to four Super Bowls, but lost all four and went 10-12 in the postseason.
Bill Cowher is apparently in demand as a coach but was only 12-9 in the postseason.
Dick Vermeil coached two Super Bowl teams and won one, but was only 6-5 overall in postseason play.

Add Marty Shottenheimer to that list as well, success in the playoffs has alot of luck involved.

Razor Shines

01-11-2011, 05:46 PM

Bottom line is the Colts are good because of Manning, you put Carson Palmer (an NFL average quarterback) on this team and they go 3-13 or 4-12.

The Colts are successful mainly because of Manning period. If Peyton Manning was not playing for the Colts there is no way the city builds that monstrosity of a stadium.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying too.

My point is that fans are filling up the stadium because they are successful. You were saying that once Manning is gone the stadium will be empty. I agree if the Colts suck again...it is possible for them to continue to be successful after Manning.

redsfanmia

01-11-2011, 06:10 PM

Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying too.

My point is that fans are filling up the stadium because they are successful. You were saying that once Manning is gone the stadium will be empty. I agree if the Colts suck again...it is possible for them to continue to be successful after Manning.

True and hopefully they will be successful after he leaves but Manning has pretty much changed Indiana from a basketball crazy state to a football crazy state. I think it is all on Manning, the success of the Colts is squarely on Manning's arm and mind. There is not one player in the NFL right now and possibly the history of the NFL who determines his teams success more than Manning.

Tom Brady was out for a season and his team went 11-5, Ben R was suspended for the first 4 games of the season and the Steelers went 3-1. If Manning went down I seriously wonder if the Colts could win more than 2 games and if Curtis Painter plays I doubt they could win 1 game.

Hoosier Red

01-11-2011, 06:26 PM

I agree that Colts fanbase is sensitive, the problem with the fanbase is that once Manning is gone there will be an abundance of empty seats in that gigantic barn they call a stadium and a ton of Colts stuff at Goodwill. There were not many Colts fans in 1997 but yet in 1999 you could not get a seat.

Who cares if Manning the greatest quarterback in the league, he is pretty damn good, an all time great.

I think it's hard to judge the Colts fan base by what happened before Manning. They were a new team, most fans here were essentially Lions/Bears/Bengals/Browns fans and the Colts were awful. I often hear Pittsburgh fans talk about how the waiting list for the Steelers is like 90 years, but the Steelers have had back to back losing seasons like once in the Super Bowl era. You don't have to be a die hard guy to keep your Steelers tickets.

The Manning era coincided with the first generation of fans who grew up with a team always being in Indianapolis. My guess is you'll see some drop off, but not a lot once he retires, that is provided the Colts remain relevant.

George Anderson

01-11-2011, 09:11 PM

HoosierRedsFan

01-12-2011, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red

I think the team overachieved in making the playoffs, not just Caldwell. I challenge anyone to name a team that could lose 10 defensive players to IR, their all-pro TE for most of the season, and the #1 RB for half the year (among many other injuries) and still make the playoffs.

I honestly felt at that time if they made the playoffs it would be a minor miracle, and it was. I think the fans reaction to Caldwell stems from how he did his best to blow the playoff game. Sometimes it is hard to separate emotion and reasonable analysis (see the comments following the Reds' playoff losses for evidence of this).

Is Peyton washed up? Hardly. Are there 10 QBs better than him in the NFL? Absolutely not. Will his starts start to decline every year for the rest of his career? Entirely possible. But I would argue that he is just as likely to win another MVP next season.

Is Caldwell a bad coach? No. Is he the coach I would like for the Colts? No

I pretty much agree with all of this.

Also, I defended Caldwell for most of the season, but I really do think he made some mistakes in that playoff game that were pretty bad.

Some of us Colts fans reaction stems from his blunders in the Super Bowl. Remember the drive before the half? Colts get the ball, run it three straight times, don’t pick up the first down, turned the ball over on downs to the Saints, Saints get in field goal range and get three points. It seemed to me that Caldwell wasn’t interested in trying to get points or at the minimum get a first down, run the clock to zero and go to halftime. Then there was letting Matt Stover attempt a 51 yard field goal when he hadn’t made anything, or attempted anything past 45 yards. Instead of punting and pinning the Saints deep in their own territory he lets Stover kick the field goal, which he misses badly and gives the Saints great field position who then march done the field and score a touchdown. Also this year (just as in the Jets playoff game) Caldwell takes a time out in the Jacksonville game, giving the Jags an extra time out (as they didn’t have any at the time) giving the Jags extra time to get in field goal range (which they did) and Scobee hits the 59 yard game winner. I really believe Jacksonville was content with just going to OT but once Caldwell gave them extra time, game over! I really believe Caldwell needs to go to Clock Management 101…

Is Manning washed up? No. Is Manning going to the HOF, Yes. Did Manning help save this franchise, Yes. Does this mean Manning shouldn’t get criticism, NO. Manning has done a lot of great things both for the franchise and for the community but he has also had some playoffs blunders and don’t understand why some people get upset when you bring them up.

Most of my criticism has more to do with Coaching/Scheme/Polian

Scheme: Remember we want to be smaller and faster on defense (Do what we do)…how has that worked out the past several years? Seems to me we can’t stop run. That’s been an ongoing issue for years. I would think the Colts would had addressed that by now. I almost forget, it doesn’t need fixing “We just need to play better” We have corners that play 8 yards off the receiver, DT’s the size of LB’s that tend to get ran over, special teams is just atrocious. You can hide some of those issues when you are player weaker teams but when you play better teams (playoffs) they will exploit that. Just an opinion and I could be wrong but it seems to me the league has figured out the Cover 2 defense. I thing that has always bothered me is people who say “The Colts give up very few passing touchdowns”, I always reply with ‘Why should teams pass when they know they can run it down our throats?”

One of the things that has surprised me is after the Super Bowl loss, Polian blamed the OL, (I agree the OL needs fixing but I don’t think they were to blame for the loss) I thought played pretty well in that game…but since Polian thought the OL played terrible, what did he do to address it….First pick in the draft….DE…second pick…LB, it wasn’t until the 4th round that Polian drafted someone for the OL, and I might mention he released Ryan Lilja (who had a pretty good year for KC) and then signed Adam Terry (who he released) and Andy Alleman (who he also released) Polian I thought had had also been good at drafting but the past few years have left me wondering. For example drafted Addai in the first round in 06 and then in 09 drafts another RB in the first round..Also drafting Gonzalez in the first round when I think there where bigger needs.

HoosierRedsFan

01-12-2011, 10:56 AM

I think it's hard to judge the Colts fan base by what happened before Manning. They were a new team, most fans here were essentially Lions/Bears/Bengals/Browns fans and the Colts were awful. I often hear Pittsburgh fans talk about how the waiting list for the Steelers is like 90 years, but the Steelers have had back to back losing seasons like once in the Super Bowl era. You don't have to be a die hard guy to keep your Steelers tickets.

The Manning era coincided with the first generation of fans who grew up with a team always being in Indianapolis. My guess is you'll see some drop off, but not a lot once he retires, that is provided the Colts remain relevant.

I agree with this...I think anytime a team has been good for a while then goes into a funk you are going to have some bandwagon fans jump off BUT….For example, my dad was raised in central Indiana without a pro team and he became a Bears fan. Just because Indy got a team, he didn't change his alliance to the Colts (Super Bowl 41 was fun )..He roots for the Colts when the Bears aren’t involved but he is still a Bears fan first. Now we have a generation (I am 34 so all I can remember is the Colts always being here) who is now raising another generation of Colts fans. I grew up in Anderson (where the Colts held training camp the first 13 or 14 years they were here, just returned back this past summer) and I can remember hanging out at training camp as a kid..I’ve always been a Colts fan and will always be a Colts fan.

kaldaniels

01-12-2011, 01:03 PM

Seems like you've taken opportunities to make yourself look good.

You said nothing about Manning being bad 9 or so games in, while he was having a great season.

He hits a bad stretch and you're in here saying how you've thought he was 9th best coming into the season.

Peyton gets back on track plays well for the last 4 games and nothing.

Colts lose in the first round...guess who's back? And telling us how sensitive we are. Seems pretty opportunistic.

Honestly, I haven't minded anything you said (I think you're mostly wrong) except the "sensitive" thing. I don't see how just arguing different opinions makes one "sensitive". Maybe it's just me, but I find it kind of annoying when someone uses that in an argument. No one says to you and Edabbs "Oh, you Jocketty guys are so sensitive." And if they did it would be just as annoying.

Sorry if my timing seems opportunistic. Like I said, the first game Manning had after my remarks that caused a stir, he did not have a good game...however I refrained from jumping in b/c I made a conscious decision not to jump in the rest of this season, as my remark was concerning who I wanted for the 2011 season. We will see how that plays out, and you know what, I could be wrong. I'm a reasonable guy and my rankings of QBs are always going to be fluid. If you must know, I'd bump Manning back above Vick (injury concern) and Cassell (just not the game manager I thought he was, a work in progress though).

Yeah calling Colts fans sensitive is bound to strike a nerve. But look at the statements that get you guys riled up. (I completely understand you getting worked up by my Manning opinion...I don't hold that against you)

1) The Colts are no longer top contenders

2) Peyton Manning is to blame for the Superbowl Pick 6 (If you want to split blame between Manning and Wayne, sure...but it seems as if you absolve Peyton of any responsibility)

3) Tony Dungy should have had better results in the playoffs.

When "you guys" respond to stuff like that, there is no remark like "I see what you are saying, but...." It is just total knee jerk denial and outrage for lack of a better word. No offense meant by any of this.

Hoosier Red

01-12-2011, 01:24 PM

You gotta remember 10 years ago this state was Pacer crazy and the Colts were an after thought. Now it is vice versa. Before the Pacers had their run in the early 90's it was all Bobby Knight and IU and now Tom Crean and IU are pretty much back page news. My point is this state is quick to jump on the band wagon and quick to jump off of it. We really don't have a huge throng of die hard fans of any of our teams like the Steelers, Cowboys or sadly like the Cubbies have.

Also no doubt Lucas Oil is the house that Manning built. If Polian had drafted Ryan Leaf the Colts would be in LA.

It's all relative. The Pacers had some additional (http://http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2621509) reasons (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/3020/charged-marquis-daniels-and-jamaal-tinsley) behind (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/6549074/) their declining popularity.
Tom Crean and IU may play like back page news, but they still draw better than all but about 10 schools in the nation-2nd in Big 10 in attendance behind tOSU who has a larger arena- and they still get a lot of eyes on them around the state.

As I said, if the Colts revert back to a number of seasons of awful play like they had before Manning arrived, I agree that they will see the attendance suffer greatly. However assuming they go back to being just an ordinary NFL team with a playoff appearance every few years to keep people interested, my guess is they'll pretty much always sell out.

Razor Shines

01-12-2011, 02:13 PM

Sorry if my timing seems opportunistic. Like I said, the first game Manning had after my remarks that caused a stir, he did not have a good game...however I refrained from jumping in b/c I made a conscious decision not to jump in the rest of this season, as my remark was concerning who I wanted for the 2011 season. We will see how that plays out, and you know what, I could be wrong. I'm a reasonable guy and my rankings of QBs are always going to be fluid. If you must know, I'd bump Manning back above Vick (injury concern) and Cassell (just not the game manager I thought he was, a work in progress though).

Yeah calling Colts fans sensitive is bound to strike a nerve. But look at the statements that get you guys riled up. (I completely understand you getting worked up by my Manning opinion...I don't hold that against you)

1) The Colts are no longer top contenders

2) Peyton Manning is to blame for the Superbowl Pick 6 (If you want to split blame between Manning and Wayne, sure...but it seems as if you absolve Peyton of any responsibility)

3) Tony Dungy should have had better results in the playoffs.

When "you guys" respond to stuff like that, there is no remark like "I see what you are saying, but...." It is just total knee jerk denial and outrage for lack of a better word. No offense meant by any of this.

How is arguing a point getting "riled up"? So if I don't agree with you and just say nothing than I'm not sensitive, but if I express my disagreement I'm "sensitive" or "riled up".....Ok, I'll remember that for other threads when you disagree with someone.

I just thinking it's really annoying to say that someone who disagrees with you is "sensitive" or "riled up", it's pretty condescending. I take it as: "Well of course I'm right so if anyone disagrees with me it has to just be an emotional reaction."

I never absolved Peyton of anything in the Super Bowl. That's putting words in my mouth. I simply said it wasn't a "choke job" as you put it. Wayne ran one route Peyton threw to another. I have said in their type of offense those miscues are going to happen and you just have to hope the ball falls incomplete. If you feel the need to place the blame squarely on Peyton for that then fine.

As for Dungy, I never said he was the greatest coach ever or anything. I have said that I would take Belichick over him, but other than that I probably like Dungy as much as or more than current NFL coaches. Maybe I'd put Cowher a little ahead of him but Tomlin has been nearly as good as Cowher. So I kinda think Dungy could go there with the talent they have on the Oline and the defense and be pretty successful too. But if you like both Cowher and Tomlin better than Dungy I probably wouldn't argue against it.

I do think a healthy Colts team is a top contender next season. I really can't see how they wouldn't be. Even if Manning is a tick down from where he was the rest of the team is still pretty young. If they have a decent draft and off season they'll be right back with a 1st round bye next year.

Eric_the_Red

01-12-2011, 02:16 PM

Sorry if my timing seems opportunistic. Like I said, the first game Manning had after my remarks that caused a stir, he did not have a good game...however I refrained from jumping in b/c I made a conscious decision not to jump in the rest of this season, as my remark was concerning who I wanted for the 2011 season. We will see how that plays out, and you know what, I could be wrong. I'm a reasonable guy and my rankings of QBs are always going to be fluid. If you must know, I'd bump Manning back above Vick (injury concern) and Cassell (just not the game manager I thought he was, a work in progress though).

Yeah calling Colts fans sensitive is bound to strike a nerve. But look at the statements that get you guys riled up. (I completely understand you getting worked up by my Manning opinion...I don't hold that against you)

1) The Colts are no longer top contenders

2) Peyton Manning is to blame for the Superbowl Pick 6 (If you want to split blame between Manning and Wayne, sure...but it seems as if you absolve Peyton of any responsibility)

3) Tony Dungy should have had better results in the playoffs.

When "you guys" respond to stuff like that, there is no remark like "I see what you are saying, but...." It is just total knee jerk denial and outrage for lack of a better word. No offense meant by any of this.

I hope I don't come across as overly sensitive or with outrage. If so, I apologize.

I think you constructed your argument well, and truly believe what you are espousing. I obviously disagree with your stance on Manning, but that'll happen with opinions.

As to your point #1, I have to disagree. Before the season the Colts had the best odds of reaching the Super Bowl. Obviously the injuries crushed that chance. And yes, at the end of the year they were not top contenders. I don't think you'll find a Colts fan here that will disagree with that point. However, barring injury, if the team can field the support around Manning that they have in previous years, they will be top contenders. In fact, I think they will be major sleepers next year, as a lot of other teams/experts may undervalue them based on this season. (They have a tough schedule next year, but I still expect 11 wins or so.)

Point #2- Peyton takes some of the blame, but from what I've read the majority must go to Wayne for running an incorrect route. If the choice is between guessing if Manning threw a terrible pass or a receiver ran an inprecise route, I'll give the ultra-hard working Manning the benefit of the doubt every time. Regardless, it is history. There were a number of bad decisions (many/most by Caldwell) that cost the Colts the Super Bowl.

Point #3- Judging a coach, or QB, by their playoff W/L record is foolish, IMO. Take a look through this thread and compare some of the playoff records of other coaches that are considered legendary. To put the argument in a sabremetric frame, it would be akin to judging a pitcher by his W/L record and hitters by their RBI numbers. Many stats are team dependent, and that fact is amplified even more in football than baseball. There are just too many "moving pieces" on both sides of the ball to pin a win or loss on the same player/coach consistently.

kaldaniels

01-12-2011, 02:28 PM

Razor Shines

01-12-2011, 02:44 PM

Perfectly fair take Eric.

Razor, I'm concerned this has taken a personal turn...as apparently I am going to be a marked man in other threads. I wondered about that when you made your "Jocketty guy" (which I really am not...I like what he has done though) remark lumping me with Eddabbs...Which I found strange. I harbor no hard feelings over this myself.

I guess it is just the respect of debate...I acknowledge and understand where you are coming from...but I disagree. I just sense that feeling is not reciprocal.

I do think Peyton choked in the SB. It's ok to say that about a team you like..i think the Reds choked in the playoffs...life goes on.

I was kidding about the Jocketty guy stuff, don't be so sensitive. :D I don't actually have the time to search out your other posts and harass you.

I respect your opinions in the debate. Like I said the only thing I've had a problem with is the "sensitive" or "riled up" stuff. I find that characterization annoying in a debate. It just seems you're dismissing my arguments as not being logical because you say I'm just giving an emotional reaction. I don't understand at all what was emotional about my argument on Dungy.

I am perfectly fine to say that my team choked if I felt that way. (I'm not sure how much I believe in "choke" anyway, but I guess that's another discussion.) I've watched nearly every Colts game for as long I can remember and I'm telling you Wayne ran one route and Peyton threw to another. You can disagree if you like but saying I'm making that argument simply because I refuse to say that Peyton choked is condescending. We've been through it before and I went through it last year and laid out some fairly sound reasons why I believe the way I do. I don't care that you don't agree but don't tell me it's because I'm blinded by my fandom. Or I should say don't imply that, because you haven't actually said it but it is implied.

I am interested to hear which current NFL coaches you like better than Dungy (and I do throw guys like Cowher and Gruden in there). I've given you a few who I like.

kaldaniels

01-12-2011, 02:55 PM

I was kidding about the Jocketty guy stuff, don't be so sensitive. :D I don't actually have the time to search out your other posts and harass you.

I respect your opinions in the debate. Like I said the only thing I've had a problem with is the "sensitive" or "riled up" stuff. I find that characterization annoying in a debate. It just seems you're dismissing my arguments as not being logical because you say I'm just giving an emotional reaction. I don't understand at all what was emotional about my argument on Dungy.

I am perfectly fine to say that my team choked if I felt that way. (I'm not sure how much I believe in "choke" anyway, but I guess that's another discussion.) I've watched nearly every Colts game for as long I can remember and I'm telling you Wayne ran one route and Peyton threw to another. You can disagree if you like but saying I'm making that argument simply because I refuse to say that Peyton choked is condescending. We've been through it before and I went through it last year and laid out some fairly sound reasons why I believe the way I do. I don't care that you don't agree but don't tell me it's because I'm blinded by my fandom. Or I should say don't imply that, because you haven't actually said it but it is implied.

I am interested to hear which current NFL coaches you like better than Dungy (and I do throw guys like Cowher and Gruden in there). I've given you a few who I like.

Fair enough Razor. :beerme:

kaldaniels

01-12-2011, 03:02 PM

Razor Shines

01-12-2011, 03:08 PM

P
And as for what coaches I like better than Dungy...not many. How many coaches as men do I like better than Tony...none. But looking back, I think he has far too many 1 and dones in the playoffs given the talent on the field. I don't know that that would project forward, I don't. But like many before him, fairly or not, playoff sucess does matter in one's legacy. 1 Superbowl win in 9 appearances - average. 6 of 9 first game exits - below average.

All hail Lord Belichick! (kidding)

No kidding about it. I would take Belichick in a heart beat as the Colts' coach. Probably not any of his understudies though.

bucksfan2

01-12-2011, 03:44 PM

And as for what coaches I like better than Dungy...not many. How many coaches as men do I like better than Tony...none. But looking back, I think he has far too many 1 and dones in the playoffs given the talent on the field. I don't know that that would project forward, I don't. But like many before him, fairly or not, playoff sucess does matter in one's legacy. 1 Superbowl win in 9 appearances - average. 6 of 9 first game exits - below average.

All hail Lord Belichick! (kidding)

Coaching really isn't an equal playing field. You can have a team that has Payton Manning on the team and you win because of him or you can have a team that really has no desirable QB but win in spite of that. What I think makes a coach is someone who gets his team to over achieve based upon the talent he had.

Here are my current (active or recently retired) off the top of my head that I would take over Dungy:
Belichick
Tomlin
Jon Harbaugh
Andy Reid
Coughlin
Cower
Gruden
Del Rio
Fisher
McCarthy
Ryan
Fox
Payton
Shanahan

Its not so much record more over achieving with the talent given. IMO all these guys I listed win at least one Super Bowl with the Colts. I just never thought that Dungy did a good enough job with all the talent he was surrounded with. He was given two great teams, one defense in its prime and one of the greatest QB's in his prime and was only able to get to (and win) one SB. IMO there is only one coach I listed who would be better off in his current position than if he had Manning and that is Belichick.

redsfanmia

01-12-2011, 04:24 PM

Coaching really isn't an equal playing field. You can have a team that has Payton Manning on the team and you win because of him or you can have a team that really has no desirable QB but win in spite of that. What I think makes a coach is someone who gets his team to over achieve based upon the talent he had.

Here are my current (active or recently retired) off the top of my head that I would take over Dungy:
Belichick
Tomlin
Jon Harbaugh
Andy Reid
Coughlin
Cower
Gruden
Del Rio
Fisher
McCarthy
Ryan
Fox
Payton
Shanahan

Its not so much record more over achieving with the talent given. IMO all these guys I listed win at least one Super Bowl with the Colts. I just never thought that Dungy did a good enough job with all the talent he was surrounded with. He was given two great teams, one defense in its prime and one of the greatest QB's in his prime and was only able to get to (and win) one SB. IMO there is only one coach I listed who would be better off in his current position than if he had Manning and that is Belichick.

You do know that the defense that Dungy was "given" in Tampa was built by him right?

As far as your list over coaches you would take over Dungy it loses any credibility with the inclusion of Jack Del Rio.

Eric_the_Red

01-12-2011, 05:03 PM

Post-season records of some of the coaches named:

Jon Harbaugh 3-2
Andy Reid 10-9
Coughlin 8-7
Gruden 5-4
Del Rio 1-2
Fisher 5-6
McCarthy 2-2

Just sayin'. Winning in the playoffs is very, very hard.

Razor Shines

01-12-2011, 05:46 PM

Yeah, I can't say that Dungy is better than all of those guys or even most of them but he's at least as good as most of them.

It's really hard to say which coach would do better in a given situation.

kaldaniels

01-12-2011, 06:11 PM

Perception-wise, those playoff W-L marks would look a lot different if put into winning percentage form. Very slim margin of error separates the good from the bad, I will grant that.

Hoosier Red

01-12-2011, 06:23 PM

Coaching really isn't an equal playing field. You can have a team that has Payton Manning on the team and you win because of him or you can have a team that really has no desirable QB but win in spite of that. What I think makes a coach is someone who gets his team to over achieve based upon the talent he had.

I think you're setting up an impossible standard, if a coach wins with Peyton Manning, it's because he had Peyton Manning. If a coach loses(or rather doesn't win the Super Bowl) with Peyton Manning, he's an idiot.

Super Bowl Winning Quarterbacks in last 10 years;
2010: Brees
2009: Cancelled due to lack of interest(Rothelisberger)
2008: Eli Manning
2007: Peyton Manning
2006: Also cancelled due to lack of interest(Rothelisberger)
2005: Brady
2004: Brady
2003: Brad Johnson
2002: Brady
2001: Trent Dilfer

While many of those year's someone other than Tony Dungy's team won the Super Bowl, the overwhelming majority of the ones who did had a Hall of Fame Quarterback.

So just having a hall of fame quarterback isn't enough. Anyone who wins 1 Super Bowl realizes just how difficult it is. Obviously there were certain situations where Dungy may have been out coached, but to say anyone should have won multiple Super Bowls is like saying a baseball player should have had at least 2 hits in a game.