Rhodes to Rangers [Archive] - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Quatitos

12-23-2010, 07:06 PM

okay whom should Walt have bought?
I don't think he can actually answer with anything constructive, it will just be all pipe dreams about how the Reds have the capability to trade for Jose Reyes or Zach Greinke and how easy it will be to unload Cordero's contract while ignoring all negative repercussions these deals could have.

Honestly with Jon Heyman reporting that it could cost the Rangers $8 million if the 2nd year option vests that might have been just too much to bet on a 41 year old reliever with the foot problems he has had recently. I don't know if he still lives there but Arthur was also born in Texas so he might have preferred signing there anyways and this salary might be at a bit of home discount and the Reds might have had to pay even more to keep him (guesses on my part I have not seen anyone else say this). Its better to get rid of him too early than too late in this situation, especially since the Rangers are paying him basically double what we did. If we did resign him at that rate Hondo would probably be complaining how it wasn't an improvement to the club and how if we didn't sign him we could have used that money to sign Greinke or Reyes ;).

Hondo

12-23-2010, 07:29 PM

I don't think he can actually answer with anything constructive, it will just be all pipe dreams about how the Reds have the capability to trade for Jose Reyes or Zach Greinke and how easy it will be to unload Cordero's contract while ignoring all negative repercussions these deals could have.

Honestly with Jon Heyman reporting that it could cost the Rangers $8 million if the 2nd year option vests that might have been just too much to bet on a 41 year old reliever with the foot problems he has had recently. I don't know if he still lives there but Arthur was also born in Texas so he might have preferred signing there anyways and this salary might be at a bit of home discount and the Reds might have had to pay even more to keep him (guesses on my part I have not seen anyone else say this). Its better to get rid of him too early than too late in this situation, especially since the Rangers are paying him basically double what we did. If we did resign him at that rate Hondo would probably be complaining how it wasn't an improvement to the club and how if we didn't sign him we could have used that money to sign Greinke or Reyes ;).

Answer with anything constructive?

Oh you must be in the league where everyone around you improves and you stand pat... Thats constructive I guess in your opinion...

Thanks for the slight toward me though...

And yes the Reds should have traded for Greinke... My God they put 6 Million into Chapman on the "hope" that he would turn into the next Randy Johnson... Which I thought was awesome and you think adding a Greinke is a punch line for Cincy...

drew20

12-23-2010, 10:46 PM

Congrats to Arthur, I'm glad the Reds didn't give him that much money at his age.

Eric the Red

12-23-2010, 10:58 PM

I'm curious to know what the vesting qualifier is. I think it was a good decision by the front office not to match Texas offer (assuming he would have even stayed.) The addition of Arrendondo and a full year of Chapman will suffice in my opinion.

Quatitos

12-23-2010, 11:01 PM

Answer with anything constructive?
Yes, you seem unable to do it. All I see in your posts is lamenting that the Reds didn't make the Greinke trade. Its done and the Reds didn't get him, so can you please stop crying about it :cry:. And just for reference, I'm sure your right and the .5 mil spent on Cairo is why Rhodes didn't get signed or the Trade wasn't made for Greinke or a trade won't happen for Jose Reyes.

Oh you must be in the league where everyone around you improves and you stand pat... Thats constructive I guess in your opinion...

Thanks for the slight toward me though...

Well, when you have a good young core of guys and a fairly good group of veterans to complement and lead them, standing pat is not a bad idea. The young guys should in general get better and any holes Walt can hopefully fill with affordable options since the budget (oh no a dirty word for you :p:) is tight.

Also remember it is a long offseason, just look at the Chapman signing last year, it happened on January 11th and your acting like the offseason is lost and gone already and December isn't even over with.

And yes the Reds should have traded for Greinke... My God they put 6 Million into Chapman on the "hope" that he would turn into the next Randy Johnson... Which I thought was awesome and you think adding a Greinke is a punch line for Cincy...And thank you for proving my point by continuing to mention your pipe dream of a Greinke trade :cry: :deadhorse

mroby85

12-24-2010, 02:54 AM

Do you really think what Hondo is saying about wanting Arthur back is that ridiculous? The guy was amazing for the last 2 years out of the pen for the Reds, is it really that wrong to want him back?? You're the team he wants to stay with, and you have the inside track on him, and they decide to not sign him. I don't think its that outrageous to think thats a bad decision. Also, its their job to improve the team in the offseason, and address needs going into the next season. Do you feel like they've done that this offseason? Technically based on your logic, no one here can say anything constructive because you don't know all the details/opportunities that the front office had. Maybe they couldve traded for Grienke, and maybe not, but we don't really know one way or the other. All we do know is the Cardinals and Brewers have improved and the Reds are bringing back the same exact team with the subtraction of Arthur Rhodes, their best reliever, and Orlando Cabrera. Added to that you have a Rolen who is a year older and aging, and a Johnny Gomes you got 2 hot months out of last year and you just hope he can repeat that again I guess... If you're encouraged about this offseason, I'd like to see a legitimate reason why.

Sean_CaseyRules

12-24-2010, 03:16 AM

I've got a few legitimate reasons why we should be excited about standing pat. The Cards and Brewers don't have Stubbs, Bruce, Phillips, and Votto. And we do. All a year older with ML experience.

mroby85

12-24-2010, 03:27 AM

I'm not saying I think we have a bad team, I don't think they're bad at all, and they have a good young core. At the same time a reason to be discouraged about this offseason could include the Phillies adding Cliff Lee. A team that swept the Reds without him a year ago, lol. I'm just saying I think you should always be trying to improve. If you don't win the World Series, you came up short.

Sean_CaseyRules

12-24-2010, 03:33 AM

757690

12-24-2010, 05:06 AM

I loved what Rhodes did in a Reds uniform. But he's 41 with a bad foot. I'm not betting $8M that he could do it again for another 2 seasons.

jwertz

12-24-2010, 07:55 AM

Yeah, but in years past, the FO tried to make everyone happy by having a big signing and not developing players. And that's how we end up with Eric Milton. I'm just saying, I'd rather have the Reds do nothing with what we have, then overspend on someone that might break down. And I think that what the Rangers spent on Rhodes would've been too much for the Reds. Especially for a 41 year old guy with foot problems.

I agree. I really believe not only was he too expensive, but I don't know if I want that roster spot belonging to a guy only a few years away from cashing social security checks. I loved watching Rhodes pitch, and from what everyone around the Reds says he was good in the clubhouse. But, sometimes it is about addition by subtraction. I would rather Rhodes run out of gas in Texas, then in Cincy. I like your point about the Milton signing. No way does this team have the financial flexibility to suffer through another overpriced free agent contract. Leave the team as is, and make a deal or two at the deadline if it is needed. I really like the team as is.

TheBigLebowski

12-24-2010, 09:16 AM

I love Arthur Rhodes and I really wanted him back....but I had no idea it would take 8 mil over 2 years....TEX overpaid.

Jack Burton

12-24-2010, 10:04 AM

I loved what Rhodes did in a Reds uniform. But he's 41 with a bad foot. I'm not betting $8M that he could do it again for another 2 seasons.

+1. Did a hell of a job for us last season, best of luck to him.

lonewolf371

12-24-2010, 10:54 AM

wlf WV

12-24-2010, 11:08 AM

lonewolf371

12-24-2010, 11:13 AM

Impossible to stand pat,your either getting better or worse.Will the young guys improve,will the others digress,who knows? All you can count are additions and subtractions. Hope Walt isn't finished,but I do like our teams chemistry. Merry Christmas.
When you're young you get better. Maintain the farm and the farm will maintain success. No need to get caught up in crazy free agency contracts and dealing the farm for guys you only control for two years.

UPRedsFan

12-24-2010, 11:36 AM

I've got a few legitimate reasons why we should be excited about standing pat. The Cards and Brewers don't have Stubbs, Bruce, Phillips, and Votto. And we do. All a year older with ML experience.

Don't forget, we also have Wood, Bailey, Cueto, Leake, Volquez and the Cuban Missle and the Cards/Brewers don't. Carpenter is aging and neither the Cards or the Brewers have the depth of pitching the Reds have. Injuries do happen.

Any one of Cueto, Wood, or Volquez are capable of matching Greinke numbers. Bailey keeps teasing us with strong 2nd half performances, he may put it together and be in that category as well.

UPRedsFan

12-24-2010, 11:51 AM

Over in the Org there's a thread about Wood. I couldn't agree more. Travis Wood flew under the radar of the national media last year. I think he's going to take the nation by storm in 2011 with the experience he got last year. When he gets a full year he'll put up numbers similar to Lee I believe. He's our Cliff Lee, our Cole Hamels, our Jaime Garcia. I see him matching their numbers this year. He is a key part of the rotation and will make us competitive with Philly, Cards, Brewers and Giants starting rotations. Actually, I think it will be interesting to watch team stats for starting rotations and see how we stack up next year. Everyone is wowed by the Phillies and Giants and now the Brewers but I think the Reds will be right there with them because of our depth.

Cueto - can match up with anyone on a good day and he's gained experience
Volquez - has stuff as good as anyone in the league if he regains his control
Wood - proven ability to match up with the other team's best - our Cliff Lee
Bailey - waiting for that late in the season performance to translate!
Arroyo - solid, dependable, innings eater veteran - you know the story
Leake - Provides the depth no one else has
Chapman - wild card option

What will the Cards do if Carpenter can't answer the bell? What will the Brewers do if Gallardo or Greinke have an injury? They don't have Leake or Chapman to step in.

wlf WV

12-24-2010, 12:18 PM

When you're young you get better. Maintain the farm and the farm will maintain success. No need to get caught up in crazy free agency contracts and dealing the farm for guys you only control for two years.

Being young doesn't mean you will get better,otherwise I agree with you.Surely, with all the competition for the starting rotation,we won't be hurt by them.I'm not convinced the offense will repeat,still a lot more optimism than in years before.

Hondo

12-24-2010, 12:30 PM

I love Arthur Rhodes and I really wanted him back....but I had no idea it would take 8 mil over 2 years....TEX overpaid.

True that. You cannot blame Rhodes for taking the 4 Million per year...

Hondo

12-24-2010, 12:34 PM

Yes, you seem unable to do it. All I see in your posts is lamenting that the Reds didn't make the Greinke trade. Its done and the Reds didn't get him, so can you please stop crying about it :cry:. And just for reference, I'm sure your right and the .5 mil spent on Cairo is why Rhodes didn't get signed or the Trade wasn't made for Greinke or a trade won't happen for Jose Reyes.

Well, when you have a good young core of guys and a fairly good group of veterans to complement and lead them, standing pat is not a bad idea. The young guys should in general get better and any holes Walt can hopefully fill with affordable options since the budget (oh no a dirty word for you :p:) is tight.

Also remember it is a long offseason, just look at the Chapman signing last year, it happened on January 11th and your acting like the offseason is lost and gone already and December isn't even over with.

And thank you for proving my point by continuing to mention your pipe dream of a Greinke trade :cry: :deadhorse

You continue to miss my point.

It is not about Greinke.

When an Ace pitcher becomes available... I would like the Reds front office to be active in pursuing them. They do not grow on trees...

If Lincecum is on the trade market, or Felix Hernadez, or yes the Now Brewer Zach Greinke... I want the front office to try and get that Elite player to add to the mix, and they did nothing... Didn't even make a phone call according to Walt...

That is the point YOU are Missing with your Donkey. (I know its a Dead Horse but since its you, its a Mule or a Donkey)

Quatitos

12-24-2010, 02:08 PM

You continue to miss my point.

It is not about Greinke.

When an Ace pitcher becomes available... I would like the Reds front office to be active in pursuing them. They do not grow on trees...

If Lincecum is on the trade market, or Felix Hernadez, or yes the Now Brewer Zach Greinke... I want the front office to try and get that Elite player to add to the mix, and they did nothing... Didn't even make a phone call according to Walt...

That is the point YOU are Missing with your Donkey. (I know its a Dead Horse but since its you, its a Mule or a Donkey)
So if Walt had said he made one phone call with his maximum offer even though he knew it would be rejected you would be fine with that :p:. I would assume Walt didn't make a phone call because he didn't want to insult the Royals GM with what Walt could afford to give up.

Walt was on the phone for Cliff Lee (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/07/09/were-the-reds-in-on-lee-today/) when he was available last year, does that make you a little happier? If he thinks he has a chance at landing one, he will actually try, but most everyone but yourself can admit that it would have cost the Reds way too much to get Greinke.

Even though you are sad and determined to show your pouting in every thread, accept that whats done is done, live with it, and stop beating the dead horse (I will refrain from trying to oh so cleverly insult you :p:).

Hondo

12-24-2010, 02:11 PM

So if Walt had said he made one phone call with his maximum offer even though he knew it would be rejected you would be fine with that :p:. I would assume Walt didn't make a phone call because he didn't want to insult the Royals GM with what Walt could afford to give up.

Walt was on the phone for Cliff Lee (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/07/09/were-the-reds-in-on-lee-today/) when he was available last year, does that make you a little happier? If he thinks he has a chance at landing one, he will actually try, but most everyone but yourself can admit that it would have cost the Reds way too much to get Greinke.

Even though you are sad and determined to show your pouting in every thread, accept that whats done is done, live with it, and stop beating the dead horse (I will refrain from trying to oh so cleverly insult you :p:).

You're not insulting me... I cannot believe you aren't miffed at all the Reds have not done one thing to Improve the 2011 Roster.

The Reds could have traded away the pieces to land Greinke. The Reds have a Guaranteed 3 year window while Votto is under team control to Win a Championship and I would like the FO to do everything to help this great core of players in their upcoming season to Win the Central again...

I guess you don't want the Reds to Improve... Thats cool too...

brm7675

12-24-2010, 02:38 PM

Hondo

12-24-2010, 02:44 PM

What makes you think we don't already have an ACE pitcher or maybe a couple?

I think Wood and Leake are going to be special.

Arroyo is a Work horse but not an ACE...

Volquez is coming off Tommy John so he's up in the air.

Cueto is solid as a #3

Bailey might find some success this year if they give him 30 Starts but thats not a given...

The Reds only have 1 Pitcher who has thrown 200+ Major League Innings in one year and that is a fact... If everything goes perfect, they could have 4 Guys do it this year... But we will all have to see...

brm7675

12-24-2010, 02:50 PM

The Reds could have traded away the pieces to land Greinke. The Reds have a Guaranteed 3 year window while Votto is under team control to Win a Championship and I would like the FO to do everything to help this great core of players in their upcoming season to Win the Central again...

I guess you don't want the Reds to Improve... Thats cool too...

you have absolutly no proof to support that claim.

brm7675

12-24-2010, 02:51 PM

I think Wood and Leake are going to be special.

Arroyo is a Work horse but not an ACE...

Volquez is coming off Tommy John so he's up in the air.

Cueto is solid as a #3

Bailey might find some success this year if they give him 30 Starts but thats not a given...

The Reds only have 1 Pitcher who has thrown 200+ Major League Innings in one year and that is a fact... If everything goes perfect, they could have 4 Guys do it this year... But we will all have to see...

Cueto a solid 3? Really? I think you way undervalue his ability and potential.

UPRedsFan

12-24-2010, 03:08 PM

Cueto, Volquez, and Wood all have the capability of being an ACE this year. I agree, we could have an Ace already on staff.

Bailey and Leake could be #2's but just don't seem to be able to last enough innings into the game.

Hondo

12-24-2010, 03:32 PM

Cueto a solid 3? Really? I think you way undervalue his ability and potential.

I didn't say he cannot get better... For the 2011 Season I believe he will win 16 games, so yes I think he is a Solid #3 Starter right now... During the season and after, he may be better... Remember 2 years ago he was like 9-2 and didnt get an All-Star nod so he was upset and didnt pitch all that well the rest of the way... So he could be an 18 Game Winner, possibly 20 in the future...

brm7675

12-24-2010, 03:40 PM

I didn't say he cannot get better... For the 2011 Season I believe he will win 16 games, so yes I think he is a Solid #3 Starter right now... During the season and after, he may be better... Remember 2 years ago he was like 9-2 and didnt get an All-Star nod so he was upset and didnt pitch all that well the rest of the way... So he could be an 18 Game Winner, possibly 20 in the future...

What do wins have to do with determining if a pitcher is an ACE or not?

Hondo

12-24-2010, 03:50 PM

What do wins have to do with determining if a pitcher is an ACE or not?

Ok Moneyball...

I don't think Cueto will be an ERA Champion who Strings out 240 Innings and wins 21 Games...

But I think he can be a servicable pitcher who can knotch 200+ Innings with a respectable ERA (3.50) and win 15 + Games per year....

brm7675

12-24-2010, 03:55 PM

Ok Moneyball...

I don't think Cueto will be an ERA Champion who Strings out 240 Innings and wins 21 Games...

But I think he can be a servicable pitcher who can knotch 200+ Innings with a respectable ERA (3.50) and win 15 + Games per year....

Why not? He won 16 games last season (although win totals is not what you should look at to determine ace material) and is only what like in his 3rd season. The team is getting better, he is getting better so why don't you think he can't win 20+ and have an era in the upper 2's or low 3's?

gedred69

12-24-2010, 04:55 PM

In the past when evaluating the reds chances there was a lot of "ifs". Well in my eye, the big "if" this year is the quality pitching performance, top-to-bottom. Difference is, now we've seen enough of all these guys that the "if" is completely likely to be expected rather than an "if".

Hondo

12-24-2010, 05:09 PM

Why not? He won 16 games last season (although win totals is not what you should look at to determine ace material) and is only what like in his 3rd season. The team is getting better, he is getting better so why don't you think he can't win 20+ and have an era in the upper 2's or low 3's?

Man I just said he has the potential to Win 20 Games...

But matching him against Lincecum, Halladay, Lee, Santana would be tough for him... Thats all.

brm7675

12-24-2010, 05:20 PM

Man I just said he has the potential to Win 20 Games...

But matching him against Lincecum, Halladay, Lee, Santana would be tough for him... Thats all.

Lincecum and halladay i would agree, but i see both Lee and Santana being on the down side of their careers. I would say you will see overall better numbers by Cueto over the next 4-5 seasons then you will out of either Lee or Santana....

Pete4prez

12-24-2010, 05:30 PM

Authur is 41 and has foot problems, taking into an 8 million dollar vestment for second year.....I wish Authur and the Rangers the best of luck!!

Michelle

12-25-2010, 02:06 PM

Do you know who will be takeing Arthers Place in the Reds Yet?
Mcihelle

Nathan

12-25-2010, 02:33 PM

Do you know who will be takeing Arthers Place in the Reds Yet?
Mcihelle

His name's Gomer Pyle.

Michelle

12-25-2010, 02:53 PM

I never heard of him.
Michelle

Pete4prez

12-26-2010, 12:19 AM

Do you know who will be takeing Arthers Place in the Reds Yet?
Mcihelle

Bill Bray, Aroldis Chapman, Travis Wood, Danial Ray Herrara maybe Philip valquette

Vottomatic

12-26-2010, 03:27 AM

Authur is 41 and has foot problems, taking into an 8 million dollar vestment for second year.....I wish Authur and the Rangers the best of luck!!

If the Rangers get even more out of Arthur, I have to admit, I'm happy for both them and Rhodes.

But circumstance tells me we caught lightning in a bottle, and for the money, he wasn't worth it.

Hondo

12-26-2010, 03:14 PM

If the Rangers get even more out of Arthur, I have to admit, I'm happy for both them and Rhodes.

But circumstance tells me we caught lightning in a bottle, and for the money, he wasn't worth it.

Yeah, thats why the last 3 years he has been awesome... 4 out of the last 5 years he has been money, and 6 out of 9 years he has been a domianat lefty out of the pen...

Yes. Definatley Lighting in a Bottle.