BENder UPDATE v2.0! [Archive] - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Steve4192

03-11-2003, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by Red Heeler
Do you think the Indians would take Larson or Branyon for him? Maybe Mateo?

They probably wouldn't take Branyan since he was the guy they traded to get Ben is the first place.

I think they probably would take Larson or Mateo, because IMO Hafner is the guy they are banking on to take Thome's spot and a promising bat at another position might appeal to them more than Broussard.

That said (that one's for you FCB), I don't think Bowden would do that deal, since both Larson and Mateo are 'toolsier' than Ben.

malcontent

03-11-2003, 06:00 PM

5 BB and only 1 K in 22 AB. Even the new and improved Branyan will never get close to that.

Broussard implied that when he came up last year he was pressing and that his swing was all over the place. Who knows, maybe he'll be what Ben Grieve was supposed to be.

This guy WAS the cheap alternative to Casey at 1B.

Red Heeler

03-11-2003, 06:15 PM

Actually, Steve, I was just being a smarta$$. I knew that it was Branyon that the Reds got in return. You are most likely right that Bowden wouldn't trade Larson or Mateo for Broussard, but it doesn't make him right. The Reds will continue to lose a fair percentage of position player trades until Jimbo or his successor figures out that the most important tool for a hitter is plate discipline.

PuffyPig

03-11-2003, 08:40 PM

Before we concede the trade to Cleveland, let's not lose sight of the fact that (1) Branyan played very well for us last year;(2) Brussard played very badly for Cleveland last year; and (3) you are basing Brussard's "ressurection" on a paltry 22 Spring Training AB's for God's sake. Oh I forgot, Ben was "pressing" last year.

Bill

03-11-2003, 10:41 PM

I considered starting a thread with a BB update yesterday but figured I'd wait another week to see if he keeps it up. I've been following the Hafner-BB race closely. BB did not play winter ball as he usually does but stayed home and worked out as Cleveland suggested. He lost some fat and added some muscle. Reports are that both his bat and footspeed have improved this spring.

Shapiro has stated that he wants both of them to play everyday which suggests one may end up in Buffalo which seems a waste. I do think that BB is in their long-term plans though and they see Hafner taking over the DH role once Burks is moved. Hafner is having a good ST too with the bat but he has not been as impressive at 1B.

If a trade could be worked out with Cleveland, it should not be for BB but rather one of their LHP- Lee, Tallet, Traber or even Stanford. Yet I don't see Shapiro having much interest in what the Reds have to offer. At 3B, it appears Shapiro is pleased with Casey Blake (who is killing the ball) until Smith, Whitney or Peralta are ready (afterall he did let Chapman and MacDougall go). They are also pretty well stocked with OFs whom are impressing this spring too.

Big Klu

03-12-2003, 01:55 AM

puffypig,

Yes, you are right--the "sample size" is too small!

RollyInRaleigh

03-12-2003, 08:41 AM

The sample size usually depends on whose favorite player is being measured.

Riverfront

03-13-2003, 02:13 AM

Hey Bill, do you read Pluto? here's what he had to say, in his newsletter....

First base is another excellent situation.

Ben Broussard and Travis Hafner have both been hitting. After a shaky start in the field, Hafner has settled down defensively. Broussard is very good with the glove.

I still see Hafner winning the job, Broussard opening at Class AAA Buffalo. Hafner has more Class AAA experience, and is a more disciplined hitter. But Broussard is now showing people why he won the Class AA Southern League batting title in 2001.

Neither of them has the raw power of Jim Thome. But think about the length of the contract and the staggering amount of dollars that would have been required to keep Thome. Then think about his possible back problems. So not signing him may turn out to be a huge blessing for the Tribe.

Especially if Hafner and/or Broussard come through.

Ben Broussard rounds third base after smacking a two-run home run off Toronto Blue Jays pitcher Cliff Politte.
AP

Obviously, there is the typical March disclaimer next to this and everything else I'm writing: THIS IS JUST SPRING TRAINING AND IT'S EASY TO BE FOOLED.

But it's hard to ignore a minor league track record, and Hafner has a .317 batting average over his last four pro seasons.

Broussard was off to a good start at Class AAA Louisville last season, batting .273 with 11 HR and 30 RBI in 57 games before he was traded to the Tribe. He was then moved from first base to left field. The Indians said they'd give him a month at Buffalo to learn the new position.

Not quite.

The trade was made on June 7, and he was called up on June 23. In two stints with the Tribe, Broussard batted only .241 with 4 HR and 9 RBI in 112 at-bats. He had the lousy ratio of seven walks to 25 strikeouts.

Coming to the big leagues and having to play the outfield was just too much for him, as he seemed overwhelmed. He also thought he had to hit for instant power, and developed some bad habits in terms of a long, slow swing.

The plan seems to be for Broussard to go to Buffalo and be ready when Ellis Burks is traded, which may happen sooner than later as there will be a good team in need of a right-handed bat.

Then Broussard will be recalled and Hafner will take over at DH for Burks.

At least, that's my prediction based upon some conversations with Tribe officials.

knuckler

03-13-2003, 06:55 AM

Where did Broussard get this reputation as good with the glove? When he was in the Reds' organization Tim Naehring said he was ready with the bat but not with the glove, and the independent scouting reports I read all said the same thing.

Good to see him having success, just wish it was in a Reds uniform.

cincinnati chili

03-13-2003, 08:35 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb here and accuse Shapiro of playing 'options games.'

Between 5 players (Burks, Hafner, Vasquez, Shane Spencer and Karim Garcia), there are 4 spots at dh, 1b, lf, and rf.

That would be plenty of playing time for everybody if they kept both Broussard and Hafner in the bigs.

I know that they have options left, but I think it might hurt the psyche of one of these guys to have a .400 spring following a good year in the minors and then lose a roster spot to the likes of Karim Garcia and Shane Spencer.

Riverfront

03-13-2003, 01:39 PM

I think Garcia is with the Yankees now. IIRC.

Bill

03-13-2003, 03:09 PM

Thanks for the article Riverfront. I read Pluto occassionally though I tend to check the Plain Dealer more often. The best read though for the Tribe is actually an amateur site called the Cleveland Indians Report. Pluto had a good article on Skinner and his wife battling cancer recently.

Pluto though seems to be misinformed about BB's defense. While he is better than Hafner and has improved his footwork this spring I hear, he is not a superb 1B as Pluto described him a couple weeks ago. The BB-Hafner part is just one part of a larger article that is sure to please ardent Tribe followers as it reports on how well the young players are performing this spring. Some of it has to do with a motivation to make the big leagues and impress but there is a lot of talent in their organization. Many Tribe fans are unhappy about losing Thome, Alomar etc, but their anger will turn to happiness in a couple seasons.

Chilli, you mean Lawton, not Vasquez right? Shapiro did make a mistake in signing Spencer for the right-handed OF role as that still left them without a backup CF meaning they will have to keep another OF like Magee leaving no room for two 1B since they will go with 12 pitchers (SPencer is the 1B backup). At the time, I wanted them to look at Ochoa for the RH OF and CF backup leaving a space for BB. I do not think Shapiro anticipated BB being so hot this spring. BB is taking flyballs in the OF voluntarily to further his case.

RF, Garcia was with the Yanks last year, but rejoined Cleveland mid-season.

Riverfront

03-13-2003, 04:32 PM

I don't really follow the Indians, I just like Pluto's writing enough to subcribe to his Enewsletters. That's the only reason I saw that writeup.

cincinnati chili

03-13-2003, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Bill
Chilli, you mean Lawton, not Vasquez right?

Actually, I meant BROUSSARD. Sorry. I don't count on Lawton being available to play

Bill

03-13-2003, 07:18 PM

RF, I noticed Pluto has a book out now? Any good?

Too bad about not being a Tribe fan too. A Reds/Indians fan is a rare bird but growing up halfway between the two in the 70's, it was easy to love the big red machine and pull for the perennial underdog Indians.

remdog

03-13-2003, 09:43 PM

By Bill:

A Reds/Indians fan is a rare bird......

As Garfield would say, 'Hey, I resemble that remark!'

Rem

Bill

03-13-2003, 11:47 PM

Hey Rem, I remember you wrote that the two Ohio teams were your childhood favorites. Just curious as to where you grew up?

remdog

03-14-2003, 01:55 PM

Bill:

I grew up in Cleveland. Did a report on the Reds for a 4th grade class and got hooked on baseball at that end of the state, too. Moved to Cincinnati after collage and loved the time I spent living there (8 years).

Rem

Raisor

03-15-2003, 09:07 AM

Keep on Keepin' on!

BA-.407
OBP-.515
SLG-.963
OPS-1.478

G-12
AB-27
R-9
H-11
TB-26
2B-1
3B-1
HR-4
RBI-10
BB-6
K-3

Bill

03-16-2003, 01:04 PM

Ben's run into some bad luck in his contest with Hafner for the big league job. He will miss some games with a strained oblique muscle (rib cage). That might put him back enough to give Hafner the starting job and landing Ben in Buffalo.

Currently:

Hafner: .387/.806, 12-for-31, 3 HR, 4 2B
Broussard: .407/.963, 11-for-27, 4 HR, 1 2B

remdog

03-16-2003, 01:15 PM

Dang it! Sorry to hear that. I'm pulling for BB.

Rem

cincinnati chili

03-16-2003, 01:20 PM

I really like Hafner, Ben, and Ellis Burks. I can't really cheer against any of these guys to fail and/or get hurt.

Doc. Scott

03-16-2003, 02:25 PM

I usually take pleasure in the Indians failing, but their underdog status this year has me watching them with interest. I always enjoy monitoring the progress of clubs in rebuilding mode.

westofyou

03-27-2003, 11:44 AM

Ben Broussard will begin the year on the DL. Travis Hafner will be the opening day first baseman for the Tribe

http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/index.php?sport=bsball&type=spring&name=F20030326235150

Chip R

03-27-2003, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by cincinnati chili
I really like Hafner, Ben, and Ellis Burks. I can't really cheer against any of these guys to fail and/or get hurt. Casey Blake too since he is a native Iowan. He's an Indian from Indianola. :D

Bill

03-27-2003, 02:39 PM

Here is a little more info. BTW, Blake has looked good all spring:

Ben Broussard was placed on the 15-day disabled list retroactive to March 14. He hit off the tee yesterday, took some soft toss swings, and will start the season on a rehab assignment in Buffalo.

cincinnati chili

05-27-2003, 09:49 PM

Ben's line tonight:

3 for 4, missed the cycle by a single (2b/3b/hr)

His competition is now playing in the minors. Let's see what happens.

Stormy

05-27-2003, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by cincinnati chili
Ben's line tonight:

3 for 4, missed the cycle by a single (2b/3b/hr)

His competition is now playing in the minors. Let's see what happens.

He'll put up very solid numbers, at a low cost. That's what will happen if he's just plugged into the lineup and left alone. IMO

letsgojunior

05-27-2003, 10:01 PM

His competition is now playing in the minors. Let's see what happens.

I know I read somewhere today that Hafner is going to stay in the minors and Bender is going to continue to play. Let me see if I can dig up the link.

Found it. On the AP:

News
Cleveland activated first baseman Travis Hafner (toe) from the disabled list on Monday, but he will be hitting in Triple-A for the near future, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported. "Travis is healthy now, but we still want him to get back to where he needs to be offensively," said manager Eric Wedge. The move means that Ben Broussard will continue to hold down the Indians' first base job. "Ben deserves to be up here and Travis needs to be down there," Wedge added. "He needs more time."

luckster

05-27-2003, 11:06 PM

I knew we traded the wrong first baseman when they announced that trade last year.

I'm willing to suffer through another losing season if it means getting rid of putrid tag team of Bowden and Boone.

Not that I have much of a choice.

BigRed75

05-28-2003, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by luckster
I knew we traded the wrong first baseman when they announced that trade last year.

That's a bit premature to say. Broussard hasn't even broke out of his major league diapers yet. Last year, people complained about trading Konerko instead of Casey. No one's complaining this year are they? We can't judge a player over a few at bats, games or even one good year. Only time will tell...though, I think it's pretty much a given Casey will be a perennial .300 hitter.

Bill

05-31-2003, 01:08 AM

Ben hit his 3rd HR tonight. The bit below is from today's Plain Dealer.

We've long been high on young Indians first baseman Ben Broussard, largely because one of baseball's best minds - former Benedictine High and major-league star Mike Easler - has been among his biggest boosters. Easler, who worked with Broussard in the Reds' organization last season, says Broussard has an advantage over many young power hitters because he hits with a disciplined, "inside-out" swing, which allows him to wait longer on nasty breaking pitches. "I'm telling you, Ben Broussard can hit major-league pitching, game in and game out," Easler says. So far, Broussard has done just that.

westofyou

05-31-2003, 01:40 AM

This was in BP the other day.

Equally disappointing was the decision to simply send Travis Hafner to Buffalo, awarding the job at first base to Ben Broussard for the time being on the basis of his hitting .243/.317/.378 during his couple of weeks up. That's silly, but no sillier than losing faith in Hafner because he was hitting .202/.280/.392, courtesy of an early April stretch where he drew two walks and made 22 outs in 24 plate appearances. After that godawful slump, Hafner hit more like Hafner, slugging over .500 from that point until he went on the DL. Small sample-size caveats apply, as always, but they cut both ways in this case, and it's silly to punish Hafner for something he did or didn't do six weeks ago. If he's going to Buffalo until he gets his power stroke back, that's defensible, but the silly public comment was an endorsement of Broussard's performance.

It's worth cutting Mark Shapiro some slack, since a GM basically has to keep his mouth moving to fulfill that part of his job description as talking head, and silly things are the inevitable result. Still, I'd like to see them turn back to Hafner as soon as he shows he's still Travis Hafner, which shouldn't take more than another week or two. Then, it's up to Broussard to have really done something to deserve to stick.

Bill

05-31-2003, 02:32 AM

It appears BB is showing them. He is now up to a .935 OPS.

luckster

05-31-2003, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by BigRed75
That's a bit premature to say. Broussard hasn't even broke out of his major league diapers yet. Last year, people complained about trading Konerko instead of Casey. No one's complaining this year are they? We can't judge a player over a few at bats, games or even one good year. Only time will tell...though, I think it's pretty much a given Casey will be a perennial .300 hitter.

It's not premature to say that at all. They had an option of using Casey or Broussard at first base and they made the wrong decision.

When you look at this team you have to take a player's salary into consideration. I'm not saying Ben Broussard will be a better player than Sean Casey throughout their careers(though I believe he will). I'm saying Ben Broussard is a far more valuable player at $303,000 than Sean Casey is at $5,600,000.

That's $5,297,000 that could have been spent better elsewhere.

cincinnati chili

06-06-2003, 08:00 AM

.903 OPS in 69 plate appearances.

guernsey

06-12-2003, 09:35 PM

2-run HR tonight and a single.

guernsey

06-17-2003, 08:11 PM

Ben hit a 2-run HR tonight.

gonelong

06-17-2003, 11:00 PM

93 ABs
.290 .350 .527 .876

I expect more of the same.

GL

Bill

06-18-2003, 12:09 AM

Giving good at-bats just like Easler promised. Imagine the Reds lineup with BB at 1B and with the money saved from Casey's salary, Todd Walker staying at 2B and leading off. It seems Bowden got taken by two of the games newest and youngest GMs. In fact, was that not little Theo's first deal?

D-Man

06-27-2003, 01:51 AM

*.786 OPS in 2003
*.706 OPS for the month of June (including a 6:21 BB to K ratio in June) after his terrific re-introduction in May
*.738 OPS in 258 career PAs in the majors (18 BB, 54 Ks)

Ravenlord

06-27-2003, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by Bill
Giving good at-bats just like Easler promised. Imagine the Reds lineup with BB at 1B and with the money saved from Casey's salary, Todd Walker staying at 2B and leading off. It seems Bowden got taken by two of the games newest and youngest GMs. In fact, was that not little Theo's first deal? exactly why i feel Bowden has lost his edge.

Bill

07-11-2003, 11:10 PM

BB with 2 HR, a double and 5 rbi tonight. He now has 8 hr in 168 AB, or roughly half the ABs that Casey has taken to hit 9 hr. Consider that BB is in a lineup with little protection.

MWM

07-11-2003, 11:15 PM

His OPS is now up to .836 vs. 771 for Casey.

And for about $5.5MM less. This is why Jim Bowden has no business running a small to mid-market team. Getting rid of a guy like Broussard for a guy like Branyan while signing Casey to a LTC for big bucks is the exact opposite in every way of how a small market team can become successful. As a matter of fact, if there was a manual for how to run a successful small market MLB franchise, these moves would highlight the section of what not to do.

Hard to understand how Bowden ever thought this was a good idea. Branyan is another example of a player he became fixated on and couldn't resist tempatation when he had the opportunity to get him.

oregonred

07-11-2003, 11:58 PM

Funny how this thread disappeared since Bender went from a near .900 OPS straight to a sub-.750 OPS a couple days ago. Not to mention an overall sub .200 BA with RISP :eek:

June totals (92 AB): .307 OBP and .655 OPS

Two hot games and the OPS jumps 80 pts and the thread is back baby!

Now where is that Konerko thread?? :evilgrin:

cincinnati chili

07-12-2003, 12:40 AM

You are correct that the slugging component of OPS can make a player's OPS rise very quickly. But Broussard is still making good progress. He's not out of the woods yet. But if he can get that on base percentage over .360 in his first full season, and his slugging up over .500, that is a heck of a lot of production from a minimum-salary player.

Bill

07-12-2003, 01:06 AM

Exactly. Essentially he is a rookie and has to make adjustments. Casey has had 2-3 slow seasons so I am not worried about Broussard's slow June. Keep in mind that their lineup lost Burks. BB is often the lone longball threat.

oregonred

07-12-2003, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by cincinnati chili
You are correct that the slugging component of OPS can make a player's OPS rise very quickly. But Broussard is still making good progress. He's not out of the woods yet. But if he can get that on base percentage over .360 in his first full season, and his slugging up over .500, that is a heck of a lot of production from a minimum-salary player.

Agree.

Just find it humorous that the Bender thread only rears its head whenever he has a good night. Which hasn't happened since mid-June...

Bender's a nice player, but won't be more than an average to slightly above average producer for a few years. A bargain for 2-3 seasons without a doubt (if he sticks in the bigs) Just think of the meltdown that would occur here on a nightly basis if we ever did trade away a superstar type phenom!

The Trevor Hoffman update thread would have had 32,000 posts and 16 million views by now if Redszone was around in 1995.

GAC

07-12-2003, 07:35 AM

Why are you people doing this to yourselves? It's not like we are going to get Broussard back! :lol:

I thought it was a stupid trade also. Knowing alot of Indian fans, they were ecstatic to "dump" Branyan and get Broussard.

remdog

07-12-2003, 10:37 AM

Why are "we" doing this to ourselves? I don't know about others but I follow Ben 'cause I saw him in his first season out of college and liked him as a player. He's also a nice young man.

Since I root for the Indians in the AL, in a sense, I've still got Ben on my team. It just irks me that all the Reds got for him was Russell Branyon who will be long gone and forgotten soon. (Possibly as soon as the end of this season.)

By OR: Bender's a nice player, but won't be more than an average to slightly above average producer.... That may turn out to be true but, as numerous threads on this board have pointed out, if Sean Casey were an average producer (for a first baseman) it would be a step up.

One nice note about Ben's game last night: his Grandfather was in the stands to see Ben play for the first time as a pro. Nice welcome for Grandpa, Ben! :)

Rem

PuffyPig

07-12-2003, 12:13 PM

I once suggested that, as I hadn't seen the "bender update" in awhile, that he must be slumping. Well, a few posters jumped on me for suggesting such a thing, nitwithstanding that he had indeed been slumping.

The Bender update was started by thoses intent on proving it was a bad trade. Last year, when Branyan was hitting good, and Ben was in the minors (or hitting poorly in the majors), it was nowhere to be found. This year, whenever Ben has a good game it gets ressurected.

But that's their proogitive. We are all guilty of using the facts that state our case. THe Bender people are no different.

4256 Hits

07-12-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by MWM
His OPS is now up to .836 vs. 771 for Casey.

And for about $5.5MM less. This is why Jim Bowden has no business running a small to mid-market team. Getting rid of a guy like Broussard for a guy like Branyan while signing Casey to a LTC for big bucks is the exact opposite in every way of how a small market team can become successful. As a matter of fact, if there was a manual for how to run a successful small market MLB franchise, these moves would highlight the section of what not to do.

Hard to understand how Bowden ever thought this was a good idea. Branyan is another example of a player he became fixated on and couldn't resist tempatation when he had the opportunity to get him.

Are you sure that Allen/Linder would let Bowden trade Casey??? They seem to want to keep the fan favorites around so they very well could have told Jimbo that he cannot trade Casey.

Bowden also said that he traded for Branyan to help out last years team (when it was in 1st or 2nd place) not a trade for the long term. There is little doubt that doubt that Branyan helped last years team more than BB could have.

MWM

07-12-2003, 03:09 PM

Of course the people who were against the trade and like Broussard only bring it up when hiw numbers are good. Duh.

It's up to the people who supported the trade and think Broussard isn't very good to bring it up when he's struggling.

cincinnati chili

07-12-2003, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by 4256 Hits
Are you sure that Allen/Linder would let Bowden trade Casey??? They seem to want to keep the fan favorites around so they very well could have told Jimbo that he cannot trade Casey.

Bowden also said that he traded for Branyan to help out last years team (when it was in 1st or 2nd place) not a trade for the long term. There is little doubt that doubt that Branyan helped last years team more than BB could have.

Your first point is a really good one. I've never been that sympathetic to Bowden when people point out he 'only' has a $50 million payroll. But if he's being handcuffed in the players he can/can't trade, then I've probably been way too hard on him.

Your second point I disagree with. Larry Anderson helped the Red Sox long ago, but it didn't mean it was right to trade Bagwell for him. I'm not saying Broussard is THAT good. But what you seem to be advocating is financing a home with a 158% interest rate.

Spring~Fields

07-12-2003, 06:45 PM

How's come someone in the stats department does not do a relevent daily update on Adam Dunn a Reds player my favorite player, like they do Ben a Cleveland player on the Reds board?

GAC

07-12-2003, 06:55 PM

I think the Broussard trade was one of the stupidest deals this FO has made in the last couple of years.

I have no idea what Bowden was thinking, unless he felt that Broussard was a 1Bman who would see very little playing time behind Casey & Dunn.

Ben's wrist injury set him back a little while in the minors, but I really like this kid! But it was this FO's ineptness that again came through for us! :rolleyes:

Spring~Fields

07-12-2003, 06:58 PM

They let a better first baseman than him go.....group what was his name? .....I think I recall him going to Japan, was it Clark or what?

oregonred

07-12-2003, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by GAC
I think the Broussard trade was one of the stupidest deals this FO has made in the last couple of years.

I have no idea what Bowden was thinking, unless he felt that Broussard was a 1Bman who would see very little playing time behind Casey & Dunn.

Ben's wrist injury set him back a little while in the minors, but I really like this kid! But it was this FO's ineptness that again came through for us! :rolleyes:

That's exactly what he was thinking, plus help in 2002 and someone with pop who can fill in a 1B, 3B or LF.

Here's the production, Branyan's been superior in nearly every category :eek:

Branyan as a Red: age = 27

263 AB's, 18 HRs, 45 RBI, 44BB, .243 BA, .355 OBP, .501 SLG, .856 OPS and 3 errors in the field

Bender as an Indian: age = 26

283 AB, 12 HR, 36 RBI, 22 BB, .261 BA, .332 OBP, .442 SLG, .774 OPS and 8 errors in the field

cincinnati chili

07-12-2003, 07:56 PM

The age comparison is a good point. But the difference that I see is that Broussard was dominant at every level, when healthy, except the major leagues. Branyan has been given every chance to make adjustments in the major leagues and has failed to do so. He has the bat speed to put up Jim Thome type numbers, but he continues to put himself into 1-2 counts (instead of 2-0) counts all the time. Unless a Guillenesque anomoly occurs, this will never change.

It's possible that Broussard will never make necessary adjustments to be a "plus" hitting first baseman. But he's a somewhat unknown quantity, while Branyan is a "known." Unless something miraculously clicks for Branyan, what you see is what you get.

4256 Hits

07-12-2003, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by cincinnati chili
[B
Your second point I disagree with. Larry Anderson helped the Red Sox long ago, but it didn't mean it was right to trade Bagwell for him. I'm not saying Broussard is THAT good. But what you seem to be advocating is financing a home with a 158% interest rate. [/B]

I agree w/ this. My point was that the goal of the trade was to help last year which IMO it did but that doesn't mean that it can't turn out to be a real bad trade. Because if Broussard is THAT good (which I don't think he is) then if will turn out to be a terrible trade even if Branyon had help the Reds make the play-offs last year. But that is the risk a team takes trading a minor leaguer and so far Bowden has never traded one that became a good major leaguer.

Bill

08-19-2003, 05:24 AM

This one is for Oregon ;) Ole Ben did not hit a HR last night, not even a double, only a single in 5 ABs and a walk. And that against Rob Bell of all the pitchers. As a rookie with 277 ABs, he does own a .784 OPS. Not much better than Casey's 752 OPS, but at a big savings. I am going to guess he fares better next year. Btw, a 5 tooler whom almost became a red, Alex Escobar, was called up to Cleveland the other day. Just so we know what we are missing, he was leading the IL in HRs -24 but he only managed 26 BB to go with his 133 Ks.

Btw, can we still complain about BB being traded since the man whom dealt him is gone? On the other hand, it was Lindner whom helped lead the Reds into the Casey contract.

Bill

09-01-2003, 04:24 PM

Ben had two knocks today so I am obligated to report it here. Might as well finish the season out. With two more today, he has caught Casey at 12 for the year, but in 200 fewer ABs. Hafner, whom BB has split play with at 1B, hit his 11th (in ~200 ABs) though as a DH today. Not bad production out of 1B for two guys making the minimum.

Wedge though is against platoons and they are also trying Ludwick, righty, out at 1B too so BB is assured nothing for next year though they might use Hafner at DH.