Jose Reyes Trade Talk

[Hondo]

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=6478229

This could be the Lead Off Hitter this team so desperately Needs...

Also this wouldnt take Top Prospects such as any of the Pitching or Mesoraco because this is a Salary Dump and Reyes is a Free Agent...

Now don't pounce on me and start saying he will take Bruce, Stubbs, and Joseph...

I think this could get done for Alonso and a couple B Level Prospects.

[brm7675]

Where do you play him? We have a SS, we don't need two?

[Vottomatic]

What usually happens is the Reds offer more than the Giants, but for some dumb reason, the Mets take the Giants lesser offer.

Seems like trades go down all the time where I think to myself that the Reds could have topped that offer.

[Hondo]

Where do you play him? We have a SS, we don't need two?

Just Stop it. You're refering to Janish and while he is a Great Glove man, this team needs a Spark at the TOP of the Lineup and Reyes is also a gifted fielder.

[brm7675]

Just Stop it. You're refering to Janish and while he is a Great Glove man, this team needs a Spark at the TOP of the Lineup and Reyes is also a gifted fielder.

"Gifted" but no on the level of Janish and again, I will accept less from the plate to have the incredible defense Janish brings us at SS. Plus again you are overlooking the money issue and rental issue. Walt is not going to give up young talent for a rental....not going to happen. Plus we have 2 SS, he sure as hell isn't going to trade for a 3rd. And like it or not we have 2.

[Hondo]

"Gifted" but no on the level of Janish and again, I will accept less from the plate to have the incredible defense Janish brings us at SS. Plus again you are overlooking the money issue and rental issue. Walt is not going to give up young talent for a rental....not going to happen. Plus we have 2 SS, he sure as hell isn't going to trade for a 3rd. And like it or not we have 2.

Simple Question.

What would you rather have? (Pick 1 Answer Only - No Explanation brm7675)

A. Jose Reyes playing SS and Batting Lead Off
B. Paul Janish playing SS and Batting 8th

Answer:_______________________________

[brm7675]

Simple Question.

What would you rather have? (Pick 1 Answer Only - No Explanation brm7675)

A. Jose Reyes playing SS and Batting Lead Off
B. Paul Janish playing SS and Batting 8th

Answer:_______________________________

Simple B. Reyes would be a rental and janish is better in the field and I feel confident in Stubbs handling the leadoff spot.

[Krawhitham]

Reyes does not make the Reds a better team

If you get Reyes, Stubbs gets dropped to the 7 hole. If Stubbs does not bat in front of Bruce/Votto/Phillips he will not get **** to hit and he swings at everything. Basically if you get Reyes you lose most of what Stubbs offers

Reyes & Stubbs have about the same OBP & SB
Janish has a much better glove

Reyes costs 11 million & is a Free Agent at the end of the season. You want to trade Alonso and a couple B Level Prospects for 5 months of Reyes who at best makes the team marginally better?

Have you looked at Reyes numbers with runners on

Runners on .184
Scoring Position .115
Scoring Position 2 out .167

Janish
Runners on .389
Scoring Position .368
Scoring Position 2 out .429

[Krawhitham]

Simple Question.

What would you rather have? (Pick 1 Answer Only - No Explanation brm7675)

A. Jose Reyes playing SS and Batting Lead Off
B. Paul Janish playing SS and Batting 8th

Answer:_______________________________

B because Stubbs will still be leading off

[Hondo]

B because Stubbs will still be leading off

Stubbs Would be way better off hitting 4th...

1 Reyes
2 Bruce
3 Votto
4 Stubbs
5 Phillips
6 Gomes
7 Hernadez
8 Janish or if Rolen healthy Rolen bats 5th and everyone moves Down

[brm7675]

Stubbs Would be way better off hitting 4th...

1 Reyes
2 Bruce
3 Votto
4 Stubbs
5 Phillips
6 Gomes
7 Hernadez
8 Janish or if Rolen healthy Rolen bats 5th and everyone moves Down

maybe in another year, but not this year...:thumbdown:

[CWRed]

Only if he can play left. :)

Money-wise he's not worth it and he's injury-prone. Play Hesiey and Lewis and to a lesser extent, Gomes and see who is better. Now Watch Gomes go 10 for his next 17 with 5 HR's and 11 RBI's.

[DocRed]

Not worth the money...but I LMFAO at people who think he is not an upgrade from out current SS's, price not withstanding.

[Hillsdale87]

Why would moving Stubbs down in the lineup be a bad thing? Before the season started, everybody was worried that Stubbs would be a mess batting leadoff. Stubbs thrived further down in the lineup last year. I'm sure he would do it again.

[VottoFan54]

Reyes does not make the Reds a better team

If you get Reyes, Stubbs gets dropped to the 7 hole. If Stubbs does not bat in front of Bruce/Votto/Phillips he will not get **** to hit and he swings at everything. Basically if you get Reyes you lose most of what Stubbs offers


FWIW, last year Stubbs hit very well in the 7 spot last year

Here are his stats:

Batting 1st:

127 AB 3 HR 8 RBI 13 SB .324 OBP .694 OPS

Batting 7th:

299 AB 12 HR 51 RBI 9 SB .332 OBP .784 OPS

He started in 83 games and was on pace for at least 90 RBI and close to 25 HR.

[lonewolf371]

I would love to have Reyes. Great baseball player.

[mu4103]

Not worth the money...but I LMFAO at people who think he is not an upgrade from out current SS's, price not withstanding.
Yes, I agree. Chemistry wise, I don't know how it would effect the Reds, but in terms of a personnel move, I think the Reds would draastically be improved.

[lidspinner]

Yes, I agree. Chemistry wise, I don't know how it would effect the Reds, but in terms of a personnel move, I think the Reds would draastically be improved.

ok, but a MLB team cannot just look at that...if we are playing MLB 2k11 or MLB The Show then ok, I'll take Reyes and then possible lose him at years end and laugh it off cause I can hit the power button and go to bed...

But this is MLB, the real show....no way does a 5 month rental of a 10 million dollar player in Reyes make the Reds a better team...no way, no how. Will we have a better lead off hitter for the rest of the year? possibly. Will we be lacking a little at SS? Yes. I am still not sold that Janish is a lifetime .230 hitter that some of you think he is....if he can give me .280 then we are gold.....Janish is still learning this game, it seems like it was just a year ago when he was called up and got the game winning hit in his debut.....Janish needs a few more years before we give up on him and consider him a flop.....dude flat rakes it and makes a ton of hard plays look routine.....

If any of you go to games, you get to watch Janish in action...dude gets a jump on the ball before the batter even swings the bat....he is that good. I have seen him take 2 steps before the swing and then stand there and glove the ball right in front of him...whereas with anyone else, that ball gets fielded from the side or it gets through....Janish does so much at the SS position that you cannot see in stats or TV....guy might get a GG soon

[markymark69]

Once again - I repeat - please do not bring up trade rumors on this board. It makes no difference who you bring up - they do not compare to our players - they make too much money - they can't play - our players are future hall of famers - blah, blah, blah, blah.

Then of course - this same group will gripe and moan because Walt isn't making any moves. Or so-so who isn't hitting and needs to sent down or DFA - but don't you dare mention him for a possible trade.

Classic.

[SidneySlicker]

Meh. Give me David Wright any day of the week. PS it says he may very well be shopped towards the deadline as well.

1. Stubbs
2. Phillips
3. Joey Votto
4. David Wirght
5. Jay Bruce
6. Paul Janish
7. Chris Heisey
8. Ramon Hernandez

[Girevik]

This may be totally off the wall, but could Reyes play 3B? I'm not sure how much we're going to be about to count on Rolen this year, and I think Subbs could work in the 4 or 5 hole.

Personally, I think 3B may be a bigger need than even LF. Unfortunately a true leadoff hitter is also a huge need, but you don't see a whole lot of leadoff 3B....

[CySeymour]

The Mets have Ike Davis who is hitting very well at the MLB level. Why would they be interested in Alonso?

[brm7675]

Meh. Give me David Wright any day of the week. PS it says he may very well be shopped towards the deadline as well.

1. Stubbs
2. Phillips
3. Joey Votto
4. David Wirght
5. Jay Bruce
6. Paul Janish
7. Chris Heisey
8. Ramon Hernandez

Unless Rolen retires, there is ZERO chance of the Reds being interested in Wright no matter his availability.

[SidneySlicker]

Unless Rolen retires, there is ZERO chance of the Reds being interested in Wright no matter his availability.

Yeah I know it'll never happen. A guy can dream though right? ;)
I don't have any confidence in Rolen's ability to stay healthy, but I understand that they won't put that kind of money at one position.

[Krawhitham]

Jesus ESPN claims the Reds would have to give away the farm for Reyes



4. Cincinnati Reds -- The Reds have the best farm system of any team that has a need for Reyes. Although they are happy with Paul Janish defensively at short, can you imagine Jose Reyes on the Reds? Instant World Series contenders (if they’re not already). A package would have to include one of their top catching prospects, either Devin Mesoraco or Yasmani Grandal; middle infielder Billy Hamilton or Zack Cozart; a young bat like Juan Francisco; and a starting pitcher with tremendous upside like a Homer Bailey. If the Reds want Reyes, if the Reds can afford Reyes, they have enough to get Reyes.


Seems like a lot for a 5 month rental, plus the Reds would have to pay the prorated 11 million for 2011


If you give up that much for Reyes you HAVE to resign him after 2011, if you resign Reyes you can not resign Phillips. The Reds do not have enough money for both

[Krawhitham]

Unless Rolen retires, there is ZERO chance of the Reds being interested in Wright no matter his availability.

Almost every team is interested in Wright, specially the Reds. Rolen is on the down side of his career and he can not stay healthy. They just can not afford him

[bounty37h]

Jesus ESPN claims the Reds would have to give away the farm for Reyes




Seems like a lot for a 5 month rental, plus the Reds would have to pay the prorated 11 million for 2011


If you give up that much for Reyes you HAVE to resign him after 2011, if you resign Reyes you can not resign Phillips. The Reds do not have enough money for both

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY too much. I am open to trading any and all of those players for a good, needed spot, healthy, 1+ year contract signed player, but not all of them for one that is not any of the above....

[brm7675]

Jesus ESPN claims the Reds would have to give away the farm for Reyes




Seems like a lot for a 5 month rental, plus the Reds would have to pay the prorated 11 million for 2011


If you give up that much for Reyes you HAVE to resign him after 2011, if you resign Reyes you can not resign Phillips. The Reds do not have enough money for both

Very few players are worth that amount of good young talent..

[Girevik]

That wousl be a lot for a bonafide top of the rotation starter as a rental. That's WAY to much for a guy like Reyes.

[markymark69]

That wousl be a lot for a bonafide top of the rotation starter as a rental. That's WAY to much for a guy like Reyes.

Definitely agree. Reyes is a good player - but if they are asking for that type of a package - they can keep asking.

[Hondo]

Jesus ESPN claims the Reds would have to give away the farm for Reyes




Seems like a lot for a 5 month rental, plus the Reds would have to pay the prorated 11 million for 2011


If you give up that much for Reyes you HAVE to resign him after 2011, if you resign Reyes you can not resign Phillips. The Reds do not have enough money for both

It wouldn't cost that much for Reyes because he is a 1/2 season rental...

You have to compare Reyes to that of Cliff Lee from Seattle to Texas...

Smoak was the Best Prospect he was traded for...

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=5367615


The M's sent Lee and reliever Mark Lowe to Texas for first baseman Justin Smoak and minor leaguers Blake Beavan, Josh Lueke and Matthew Lawson.

The Mariners will also send $2.25 million to the Rangers to subsidize the $4.2 million still owed to Lee.
This Post was my 1919 post so I am paying tribute to the 1919 World Series Champion Cincinnati Reds

[brm7675]

It wouldn't cost that much for Reyes because he is a 1/2 season rental...

You have to compare Reyes to that of Cliff Lee from Seattle to Texas...

Smoak was the Best Prospect he was traded for...

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=5367615


This Post was my 1919 post so I am paying tribute to the 1919 World Series Champion Cincinnati Reds

How do you know what the Mets would want? Just because Cliff Lee brought X doesn't mean the Mets would be just as stupid. You seem to think the Mets will basically just give him away, which I find hard to believe.

[Vottomatic]

I'd be interested in Reyes, but not at that asking price.

It's hard to get alot for a position player who is in the last year of their contract. No way we could re-sign him.

[Hondo]

How do you know what the Mets would want? Just because Cliff Lee brought X doesn't mean the Mets would be just as stupid. You seem to think the Mets will basically just give him away, which I find hard to believe.

Look at recent trades brm7675...

It isn't that Seattle was THAT STUPID...

It's actually cause they liked Justin Smoak and they were going to lose him anyway to Free Agency and everyone in Baseball knew it...

The Trading team isn't going to get a haul like they want when everyone in baseball knows the player isnt going to resign with the team and it is a Salary Dump... I also could see the Mets throwing in some Cash...

[lonewolf371]

How do you know what the Mets would want? Just because Cliff Lee brought X doesn't mean the Mets would be just as stupid. You seem to think the Mets will basically just give him away, which I find hard to believe.
I doubt ESPN knows exactly what the Mets want, but they probably have a little bit better idea. I bet the deal could get done with all those players minus the high-upside pitcher or the catching prospect, but what ESPN says is probably really close.

Hey, if all you want to trade away is crap all you're going to get is crap.

[brm7675]

Look at recent trades brm7675...

It isn't that Seattle was THAT STUPID...

It's actually cause they liked Justin Smoak and they were going to lose him anyway to Free Agency and everyone in Baseball knew it...

The Trading team isn't going to get a haul like they want when everyone in baseball knows the player isnt going to resign with the team and it is a Salary Dump... I also could see the Mets throwing in some Cash...

What leads you to believe the Mets have to do a salary dump?

[lonewolf371]

What leads you to believe the Mets have to do a salary dump?
Probably the fact that the team isn't winning, is in huge financial trouble, and they have an over-sized payroll. They need to rebuild and there's no reason to spend money on players that won't be around when you're good again.

[Hondo]

Probably the fact that the team isn't winning, is in huge financial trouble, and they have an over-sized payroll. They need to rebuild and there's no reason to spend money on players that won't be around when you're good again.

What he said...

(The Mets Borrowed 25 Million in November 2010 just to make Payroll)

[Krawhitham]

It wouldn't cost that much for Reyes because he is a 1/2 season rental...

You have to compare Reyes to that of Cliff Lee from Seattle to Texas...

Smoak was the Best Prospect he was traded for...

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=5367615


This Post was my 1919 post so I am paying tribute to the 1919 World Series Champion Cincinnati Reds


With at least 4 other teams bidding on him he will cost a boat load

[brm7675]

What he said...

(The Mets Borrowed 25 Million in November 2010 just to make Payroll)

But that doesn't mean they will just give players away. Also do you think the Reds will be the only team intersted? I can see a bidding war go up for him...

[bshall2105]

With at least 4 other teams bidding on him he will cost a boat load

Those aren't teams that are bidding on him, they're just teams thrown out by Jim Bowden that Reyes would be a nice fit with.

[thorn]

????


Sorry, totally thinking about something else.

[Pete4prez]

Reyes is an uprade over what we have, but I'm not into player rental, give up Yonder or Merascoor possibly both for a player who will only be a Red for a few months? I would not do it.

[gedred69]

Reyes is an uprade over what we have, but I'm not into player rental, give up Yonder or Merascoor possibly both for a player who will only be a Red for a few months? I would not do it.

Good common sense. (Even with the totally blown, M-E-S-O-R-A-C-O). Try "Mez" for short, as seems to be to be the moniker of choice.

[SidneySlicker]

Joey will be gone in 3 years imo, which makes it even that much more important to keep the young talent in their system.

[wlf WV]

We're not Yankees or Red Sox.I agree with practically all the aforementioned reasons for not leasing Reyes,not the least,Janish's abilities.If Janish continues as is ,he is all-star caliber SS.Also,Bowden's reasoning is why he's writing for ESPN and not a GM...

[lonewolf371]

I felt like this was some good commentary on the trade possibilities:

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/05/05/bowden-reds-one-of-five-teams-that-could-land-jose-reyes/

[Hondo]

With at least 4 other teams bidding on him he will cost a boat load

I guess the Rangers were the only team looking to trade for Cliff Lee last year then huh?

:rolleyes:

[Krawhitham]

.Also,Bowden's reasoning is why he's writing for ESPN and not a GM...

golden

[Krawhitham]

I guess the Rangers were the only team looking to trade for Cliff Lee last year then huh?

:rolleyes:

The Rangers over paid for a rental

The gave up 4 players for him and the one player that Seattle really wanted in Justin Smoak.

He is only hitting .315 with 5hr this season

Smoak was the #13 prospect by Baseball America in 2010

Devin Mesoraco is 64th
Billy Hamilton is 50th
Yonder Alonso 73rd

that is it for the top 100 (well besides Chapman at #7)

Don't forget they were offered Montero who was ranted #4 and turned it down, they really wanted Smoak


:rolleyes:

[Hondo]

The Rangers over paid for a rental

The gave up 4 players for him and the one player that Seattle really wanted in Justin Smoak.

He is only hitting .315 with 5hr this season

Smoak was the #13 prospect by Baseball America in 2010

Devin Mesoraco is 64th
Billy Hamilton is 50th
Yonder Alonso 73rd

that is it for the top 100 (well besides Chapman at #7)

Don't forget they were offered Montero who was ranted #4 and turned it down, they really wanted Smoak


:rolleyes:

Justin Smoak was struggling last year at the time of the trade and if you remember... I have already said Smoak was the reason they traded for him...

Who else did they get? I posted it earlier but you can't remember off the top of your head because they were not top prospects...

Oh and wouldnt Reyes be a rental as Lee was a rental for Texas?

Another tidbit...

Walt Jocketty had conversations with Seattle about Lee and ultimatley the Mariners chose the Rangers and Smoak over the Reds and Alonso...

Which the Reds shouldnt have drafted Alonso in the first place but that for another discussion.

[DocRed]

I felt like this was some good commentary on the trade possibilities:

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/05/05/bowden-reds-one-of-five-teams-that-could-land-jose-reyes/

Bowden is an idiot that the Reds should be THRILLED to be rid of.....

[urdun]

What leads you to believe the Mets have to do a salary dump?

because they stink and are not foolish enough to keep around someone with 1 foot out the door already. that and they don't want lose a guy for nothing. he'd have to have one heck of a season this year just to net them a sandwich round pick considering his last couple of seasons.

[lonewolf371]

Bowden is an idiot that the Reds should be THRILLED to be rid of.....
Yup, that's basically what is also written here:

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/05/06/more-suggestions-from-bowden/

[Vottomatic]

Reyes is a 5 tool player. Bowden would trade the farm for him in a minute.

[signalhome]

I don't see how anyone couldn't feel that Reyes is a significant upgrade at SS. However, that being said, it's not happening. I don't think the Reds are going to be willing to give up very much to get him, especially since he's a one-year rental. I'm not saying whether or not that's a good thing -- I'm completely unsure. I'm uncomfortable giving up some of the guys listed (Mesoraco and Bailey, to name a couple) even for someone of Reyes' talent, but then again, maybe Reyes is what the Reds need to get over the top this year. I honestly don't know.

[Vottomatic]

If we're going to trade the farm, let's get an ace starter.

[Hondo]

If we're going to trade the farm, let's get an ace starter.

I agree. Josh Johnson will make 13.75 Million in 2012 and 2013 and Cordero's coming off the Books (12 Million) this year...

The Marlins won't be keeping Johnson because they have 10+ Arbitration players available and won't keep Johnson at 13.75 Million on their payroll...

But this team Needs a Lead Off Hitter and I don't think Reyes will take a Haul.

[Vottomatic]

I agree. Josh Johnson will make 13.75 Million in 2012 and 2013 and Cordero's coming off the Books (12 Million) this year...

The Marlins won't be keeping Johnson because they have 10+ Arbitration players available and won't keep Johnson at 13.75 Million on their payroll...

But this team Needs a Lead Off Hitter and I don't think Reyes will take a Haul.

It's not whether or not he'll take a haul to get. It's the simple math of the payroll. Adding Reyes, probably making $11M or so and then hoping to pick up an ace later in the season..........there isn't enough payroll room.

[lonewolf371]

I don't see how anyone couldn't feel that Reyes is a significant upgrade at SS. However, that being said, it's not happening. I don't think the Reds are going to be willing to give up very much to get him, especially since he's a one-year rental. I'm not saying whether or not that's a good thing -- I'm completely unsure. I'm uncomfortable giving up some of the guys listed (Mesoraco and Bailey, to name a couple) even for someone of Reyes' talent, but then again, maybe Reyes is what the Reds need to get over the top this year. I honestly don't know.
I definitely wouldn't trade the farm for Reyes. David Wright, on the other hand, is worth a farm system. I don't think the Mets would be willing to deal him, though.

[Hondo]

It's not whether or not he'll take a haul to get. It's the simple math of the payroll. Adding Reyes, probably making $11M or so and then hoping to pick up an ace later in the season..........there isn't enough payroll room.

This team can bump the payroll... They need to be at least competetive in payroll in their own division.

So the Payroll Excuse is not a valid one IMO...

I am not talking about the Payroll jumping 25 Million here... But adding a Lead Off hitter who is hitting .320+ and plays a premium position will get this team in the playoffs for sure again and the Revenue from the Post Season (Including TV Money) will more than cover Reyes arrival hit on the Payroll.

[lonewolf371]

This team can bump the payroll... They need to be at least competetive in payroll in their own division.

So the Payroll Excuse is not a valid one IMO...

I am not talking about the Payroll jumping 25 Million here... But adding a Lead Off hitter who is hitting .320+ and plays a premium position will get this team in the playoffs for sure again and the Revenue from the Post Season (Including TV Money) will more than cover Reyes arrival hit on the Payroll.
Reyes wouldn't drastically affect whether this team would make the playoffs.

[Hondo]

Reyes wouldn't drastically affect whether this team would make the playoffs.

Uh... No offense but yes he would. The Bats go into hibernation from time to time.

Also, do you think this team doesn't need a Lead Off Hitter?

[lonewolf371]

Uh... No offense but yes he would. The Bats go into hibernation from time to time.

Also, do you think this team doesn't need a Lead Off Hitter?
No team wins or loses their division based on their lead-off hitter. How good are the Mets right now?

[Hondo]

No team wins or loses their division based on their lead-off hitter. How good are the Mets right now?

I don't think you're understanding the situation.

The Mets and Reds are in two completely different positions.

I don't even want to go into it if your point is the Mets with Reyes as their Lead Off Hitter aren't contending... So why would the Reds contend with Reyes at Lead Off?

The Reds need a table setter for their potentially great offense.

The Reds are contending.

The Mets are in finanical uncertanity and are not even close to getting back into contending and the Baseball World knows they are Sellers in the Player Trade Market.

[lonewolf371]

I don't think you're understanding the situation.

The Mets and Reds are in two completely different positions.

I don't even want to go into it if your point is the Mets with Reyes as their Lead Off Hitter aren't contending... So why would the Reds contend with Reyes at Lead Off?

The Reds need a table setter for their potentially great offense.

The Reds are contending.

The Mets are in finanical uncertanity and are not even close to getting back into contending and the Baseball World knows they are Sellers in the Player Trade Market.
Exactly, the Mets aren't contending primarily because of pitching and secondarily due to a lack of quality hitters throughout the bottom of the lineup. The Reds are contending because they have moderate pitching and quality hitting throughout the bottom of the lineup. Those factors and how they develop over the season will determine whether the Reds make the playoffs, not whether or not the Reds acquire Reyes.

If the Reds got Reyes, we'd still score a lot of runs and have questions about pitching and protection for Votto. The team would be in the exact same situation as right now.

He wouldn't change anything, and destroying the farm to get him is a bad idea.

[Hondo]

Exactly, the Mets aren't contending primarily because of pitching and secondarily due to a lack of quality hitters throughout the bottom of the lineup. The Reds are contending because they have moderate pitching and quality hitting throughout the bottom of the lineup. Those factors and how they develop over the season will determine whether the Reds make the playoffs, not whether or not the Reds acquire Reyes.

If the Reds got Reyes, we'd still score a lot of runs and have questions about pitching and protection for Votto. The team would be in the exact same situation as right now.

He wouldn't change anything, and destroying the farm to get him is a bad idea.

Acquiring Reyes would not Destroy the farm. Do some research.

[lonewolf371]

Acquiring Reyes would not Destroy the farm. Do some research.
You should take the same advice. Giving up Mez or Grandal, plus Hamilton isn't burning the farm? No one out there is mentioning the types of trades that you put up.

[Vottomatic]

..... and destroying the farm to get him is a bad idea.

We have players who are stuck with players ahead of them at their positions.

Bruce, Stubbs, Votto, Phillips, Rolen (signed for 2 more years) aren't going anywhere.

Dusty loves Gomes, so no way Sappelt or Heisey ever get a chance.

Guys like Valaika, Cozart, Frazier, Heisey, Dorn, etc........are never going to get a legit chance as major leaguers with the Reds.

And why not use the stocked farm system for trades to improve your team, when your major league roster is stocked with good players?

Reds needs.......

Starting pitching - is solid. Only thing they could add that would make it better is a #1 starter.
Relief pitching - is solid for the most part. The Reds aren't desperate here.

First Base - Votto
Second Base - Phillips
Shortstop - Janish, Renteria, Cozart, Valaika
Third Base - Rolen, Francisco, Cairo, Janish, Frazier
Catcher - Hernandez, Hanigan, Mesoraco, Grandal
LF - Gomes, Heisey, Lewis, Sappelt, Hermida
CF - Stubbs, Heisey, Lewis, Sappelt
RF - Bruce, Heisey

Other than Mesoraco and Sappelt..........I'm okay with trading alot of the other prospects.

[Hondo]

You should take the same advice. Giving up Mez or Grandal, plus Hamilton isn't burning the farm? No one out there is mentioning the types of trades that you put up.

#1 it wouldnt take both Hamilton and Mesoraco/Grandal.

This is a Salary Dump and it would probably take one or the other...

IMO I wouldnt even blink at trading Hamilton. He is 2-3 years away and the Window of opportunity to WIN is now...

When I said do some research it meant look at the situation. Look at previous trades.

It isn't going to take the Farm. Not even Close.

[lonewolf371]

#1 it wouldnt take both Hamilton and Mesoraco/Grandal.

This is a Salary Dump and it would probably take one or the other...

IMO I wouldnt even blink at trading Hamilton. He is 2-3 years away and the Window of opportunity to WIN is now...

When I said do some research it meant look at the situation. Look at previous trades.

It isn't going to take the Farm. Not even Close.
Do you mean the Cliff Lee trade, where the Rangers dealt the #13 prospect in baseball for a rental? The Adrian Gonzalez trade, where the Red Sox dealt the #31 prospect and the #75 prospect in baseball for basically a salary dump? The Matt Holliday trade, where the Cards dealt a #24? The only prospect this year that the Reds have that was ranked in that range was Aroldis Chapman at #7. After him, everyone else is #50 or later, so you'd have to put multiple ones together or give up a quality major leaguer.

[Vottomatic]

Do you mean the Cliff Lee trade, where the Rangers dealt the #13 prospect in baseball for a rental? The Adrian Gonzalez trade, where the Red Sox dealt the #31 prospect and the #75 prospect in baseball for basically a salary dump? The Matt Holliday trade, where the Cards dealt a #24? The only prospect this year that the Reds have that was ranked in that range was Aroldis Chapman at #7. After him, everyone else is #50 or later, so you'd have to put multiple ones together or give up a quality major leaguer.

I don't think you can compare trading for an ace (Cliff Lee) as the same as trading for a position player. Reyes may be really good, but great pitching is worth more, IMHO.

[Hondo]

Do you mean the Cliff Lee trade, where the Rangers dealt the #13 prospect in baseball for a rental? The Adrian Gonzalez trade, where the Red Sox dealt the #31 prospect and the #75 prospect in baseball for basically a salary dump? The Matt Holliday trade, where the Cards dealt a #24? The only prospect this year that the Reds have that was ranked in that range was Aroldis Chapman at #7. After him, everyone else is #50 or later, so you'd have to put multiple ones together or give up a quality major leaguer.

Why don't you name some of these players.

For instance the Mariners got Justin Smoak.

The Padres got Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, Reymond Fuentes, & a ptnl.

The A's sent Holliday and $1.5 million to the Cardinals and receive power-hitting third baseman Brett Wallace, a top offensive player in the St. Louis farm system; outfielder Shane Peterson and right-hander Clayton Mortensen.

Wow these trades are all good points for me.

Adrian Gonzalez is a healthy healthy 40 HR hitting First Baseman who the Reds could have even matched that package of players to the Padres.

Reyes health has been a question.

Look at the Holiday Trade... How'd that work out for the A's and they gave the Cardinals 1.5 Million.

The Reds could put a package together to get Reyes and not give up their farm...

Thanks for proving my point!

[signalhome]

Why don't you name some of these players.

For instance the Mariners got Justin Smoak.

The Padres got Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, Reymond Fuentes, & a ptnl.

The A's sent Holliday and $1.5 million to the Cardinals and receive power-hitting third baseman Brett Wallace, a top offensive player in the St. Louis farm system; outfielder Shane Peterson and right-hander Clayton Mortensen.

Wow these trades are all good points for me.

Adrian Gonzalez is a healthy healthy 40 HR hitting First Baseman who the Reds could have even matched that package of players to the Padres.

Reyes health has been a question.

Look at the Holiday Trade... How'd that work out for the A's and they gave the Cardinals 1.5 Million.

The Reds could put a package together to get Reyes and not give up their farm...

Thanks for proving my point!

His point is that those players received by teams trading rentals are rated higher as prospects than anyone in the Reds system (outside of Chapman), so it is likely to take multiple Reds prospects to land a rental on par with the others. I don't think there's any way possible to get Reyes for anything less than two of our top 10 prospects (again, Chapman excluded).

[lonewolf371]

Why don't you name some of these players.

For instance the Mariners got Justin Smoak.

The Padres got Casey Kelly, Anthony Rizzo, Reymond Fuentes, & a ptnl.

The A's sent Holliday and $1.5 million to the Cardinals and receive power-hitting third baseman Brett Wallace, a top offensive player in the St. Louis farm system; outfielder Shane Peterson and right-hander Clayton Mortensen.

Wow these trades are all good points for me.

Adrian Gonzalez is a healthy healthy 40 HR hitting First Baseman who the Reds could have even matched that package of players to the Padres.

Reyes health has been a question.

Look at the Holiday Trade... How'd that work out for the A's and they gave the Cardinals 1.5 Million.

The Reds could put a package together to get Reyes and not give up their farm...

Thanks for proving my point!
Justin Smoak ranked #13 in Baseball America that year. Casey Kelly ranked #31 this year. Anthony Rizzo #75. Brett Wallace ranked #27.

That trade hasn't worked out great for the A's, but for the record St. Louis has the #24 ranked farm system in baseball right now. I'd like to see the Reds avoid that territory.

So overall, I didn't really prove your point at all as no Reds prospects are ranked that high right now. Maybe Reyes isn't as good offensively as some of those other guys, but he still supplies his offense from the shortstop position which really increases how much he costs.

By the way Smoak is batting .315/.413/.576 for the Mariners right now. Who do you think won the Cliff Lee trade? The Rangers gave up one of the best prospects in their system and got nothing out of it in the end...

[Vottomatic]

Geez. I feel sorry for some of the Reds prospects who have nothing left to prove in the minors but are blocked at their position on the major league team. Some of these guys are heading into their 26th and 27th birthdays.

Trade them to give them a chance, and improve our team.

[lonewolf371]

Geez. I feel sorry for some of the Reds prospects who have nothing left to prove in the minors but are blocked at their position on the major league team. Some of these guys are heading into their 26th and 27th birthdays.

Trade them to give them a chance, and improve our team.
Who are these blocked 26, 27 year-olds that could get us Reyes?

[Vottomatic]

Who are these blocked 26, 27 year-olds that could get us Reyes?

I didn't say they could get us Reyes. I was speaking in general.

[Hondo]

Justin Smoak ranked #13 in Baseball America that year. Casey Kelly ranked #31 this year. Anthony Rizzo #75. Brett Wallace ranked #27.

That trade hasn't worked out great for the A's, but for the record St. Louis has the #24 ranked farm system in baseball right now. I'd like to see the Reds avoid that territory.

So overall, I didn't really prove your point at all as no Reds prospects are ranked that high right now. Maybe Reyes isn't as good offensively as some of those other guys, but he still supplies his offense from the shortstop position which really increases how much he costs.

By the way Smoak is batting .315/.413/.576 for the Mariners right now. Who do you think won the Cliff Lee trade? The Rangers gave up one of the best prospects in their system and got nothing out of it in the end...

Is the Reds Farm System ranked high or low in the major leagues?

Answer. Very High

Should the Reds be able to trade some of that depth to improve the team while the window of opportunity (Votto until 2013) to win a World Series is now?

Answer. Yes

Now Vottomatic is right... Good Pitching is a Premium and should take more than a position player (an often injured one at that)

Heres another point, you would be better to make your case that the Reds cannot add the payroll then that they dont have the prospects to build a trade package.

Cause you sir would be wrong.

Also on the payroll. This team needs to step up. They got playoff revenue last year and barely rose the Payroll 5 Million.

If they get deeper in the playoffs... they get even more money from TV Playoff revenues and tickets revenues, etc...

But anyway... I guess they can stand pat instead of trying to improve.

Thats what it seems you're in favor of.

[lonewolf371]

Is the Reds Farm System ranked high or low in the major leagues?

Answer. Very High

Should the Reds be able to trade some of that depth to improve the team while the window of opportunity (Votto until 2013) to win a World Series is now?

Answer. Yes

Now Vottomatic is right... Good Pitching is a Premium and should take more than a position player (an often injured one at that)

Heres another point, you would be better to make your case that the Reds cannot add the payroll then that they dont have the prospects to build a trade package.

Cause you sir would be wrong.

Also on the payroll. This team needs to step up. They got playoff revenue last year and barely rose the Payroll 5 Million.

If they get deeper in the playoffs... they get even more money from TV Playoff revenues and tickets revenues, etc...

But anyway... I guess they can stand pat instead of trying to improve.

Thats what it seems you're in favor of.
It's not improvement if you gut your farm of 1 or 2 of its top prospects and the guy you trade for leaves the year after. I'd rather leave that money open to other moves like keeping Votto after this 3-year deal than signing a guy like Reyes.

The trade really doesn't make sense, and teams that pull trades like this end up like what the Reds used to be and what the Mets are right now: they have a few stars, a lot of scrubs and no depth in the minor league system.

[Hondo]

It's not improvement if you gut your farm of 1 or 2 of its top prospects and the guy you trade for leaves the year after. I'd rather leave that money open to other moves like keeping Votto after this 3-year deal than signing a guy like Reyes.

The trade really doesn't make sense, and teams that pull trades like this end up like what the Reds used to be and what the Mets are right now: they have a few stars, a lot of scrubs and no depth in the minor league system.

The Trade really doesn't make sense?

Teams Needs at the end of last off season. (In order of importance)

#1 Lead Off Hitter
#2 ACE Starting Pitcher
#3 Right Handed Power Hitter
#5 Short Stop not named Janish
#5 Left handed reliever

The Mets are looking to shread payroll. Multiple reports suggest either the Reds or San Francisco Giants are the best possible fits...

Are you trying to say the Giants have a better farm system than the Reds?

[lonewolf371]

The Trade really doesn't make sense?

Teams Needs at the end of last off season. (In order of importance)

#1 Lead Off Hitter
#2 ACE Starting Pitcher
#3 Right Handed Power Hitter
#5 Short Stop not named Janish
#5 Left handed reliever

The Mets are looking to shread payroll. Multiple reports suggest either the Reds or San Francisco Giants are the best possible fits...

Are you trying to say the Giants have a better farm system than the Reds?
The Giants' farm system is kind of gutted right now with Posey, Bumgarner, and Belt all graduated to the majors. They could deal Belt, the #23 rated prospect in the preseason and that's the name mentioned so far for this trade. Right now the Giants have Mike Fontenot at shortstop, who has a slightly better bat than Janish but a far worse glove.

Unlike the Reds, the Giants offense is just terrible. They won the World Series last year on the backs of many players playing way better than they're capable of over the course of a full season. Their needs there are far greater and they're in a much more desperate situation than we are.

Again, lead-off hitter is not a big need at all. The Yankees had the #1 offense in the majors last year with a lead-off hitter that had an OPS of .710 and an OBP of .340. The Red Sox were second with a guy that OPSed .721 and had an OBP of .333. Stubbs' numbers last year? OPS of .773 and OBP of .323 which, by the way, beat Reyes' OPS of .749 and OBP of .321. Lead-off hitter is one of the lowest-priority needs a team can have.

[Hondo]

The Giants' farm system is kind of gutted right now with Posey, Bumgarner, and Belt all graduated to the majors. They could deal Belt, the #23 rated prospect in the preseason and that's the name mentioned so far for this trade. Right now the Giants have Mike Fontenot at shortstop, who has a slightly better bat than Janish but a far worse glove.

Unlike the Reds, the Giants offense is just terrible. They won the World Series last year on the backs of many players playing way better than they're capable of over the course of a full season. Their needs there are far greater and they're in a much more desperate situation than we are.

Again, lead-off hitter is not a big need at all. The Yankees had the #1 offense in the majors last year with a lead-off hitter that had an OPS of .710 and an OBP of .340. The Red Sox were second with a guy that OPSed .721 and had an OBP of .333. Stubbs' numbers last year? OPS of .773 and OBP of .323 which, by the way, beat Reyes' OPS of .749 and OBP of .321. Lead-off hitter is one of the lowest-priority needs a team can have.


So now you're comparing the Yankees lineup to the Reds...

With Tex, Rodriguez, Cano, Swisher, Granderson, Posada, and even a slumping Jeter they don't have to have an elite Lead Off Hitter.

I am backing away slowly...

:lastyear:

[lonewolf371]

So now you're comparing the Yankees lineup to the Reds...

With Tex, Rodriguez, Cano, Swisher, Granderson, Posada, and even a slumping Jeter they don't have to have an elite Lead Off Hitter.

I am backing away slowly...

:lastyear:
Yeah, proves my point perfectly. Jeter was terrible last year and they led the majors in offense. Clearly, lead-off hitter is one of the less important spots in the line-up. What matters is the middle of the order, where Reyes wouldn't play.

And you know what's funny? This year both Jeter and Gardner have been bad (Jeter even worse than last year) and they STILL lead the AL in offense. Lead-off hitters are less important.

Or what about the Cardinals, with beastly Ryan Theriot and his whopping .341 OBP? They lead the majors in offense.

[brm7675]

I agree. Josh Johnson will make 13.75 Million in 2012 and 2013 and Cordero's coming off the Books (12 Million) this year...

The Marlins won't be keeping Johnson because they have 10+ Arbitration players available and won't keep Johnson at 13.75 Million on their payroll...

But this team Needs a Lead Off Hitter and I don't think Reyes will take a Haul.

You keep saying that but there is no proof to support that. Next year the Fish move into their new and improved stadium which will bring in additional revenues. I see no reason for them to trade their ACE

[Hondo]

You keep saying that but there is no proof to support that. Next year the Fish move into their new and improved stadium which will bring in additional revenues. I see no reason for them to trade their ACE

They're not going to keep him. All those teams sign back loaded contracts with their young stars to trade them later, just like the Royals with Greinke...

When Greinke was going to make 13 Million from like 7 Million, they traded him...

Markins traded Uggla away before his back loaded year of salary hit, and will do the same thing with Johnson.

I have every piece of evidence that they have 12 Arbitration players available... Look it up on Cots...

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tQJ2iJ0-ErOo_z9G3xKSQ9g&output=html

Oh, and how did Cueto do in his start? Was he clearly not ready as you said?

[brm7675]

Is the Reds Farm System ranked high or low in the major leagues?

Answer. Very High

Should the Reds be able to trade some of that depth to improve the team while the window of opportunity (Votto until 2013) to win a World Series is now?

Answer. Yes

Now Vottomatic is right... Good Pitching is a Premium and should take more than a position player (an often injured one at that)

Heres another point, you would be better to make your case that the Reds cannot add the payroll then that they dont have the prospects to build a trade package.

Cause you sir would be wrong.

Also on the payroll. This team needs to step up. They got playoff revenue last year and barely rose the Payroll 5 Million.

If they get deeper in the playoffs... they get even more money from TV Playoff revenues and tickets revenues, etc...

But anyway... I guess they can stand pat instead of trying to improve.

Thats what it seems you're in favor of.

A) So they got some additional funds from the playoffs so what?
B) The Reds spent monies in the offseason on extending players contracts.
C) We just added 2 potential "ACES" we don't need to trade for pitching
D) You "assume" the Mets will just give Reyes away, with no proof to support that.

[Hondo]

Yeah, proves my point perfectly. Jeter was terrible last year and they led the majors in offense. Clearly, lead-off hitter is one of the less important spots in the line-up. What matters is the middle of the order, where Reyes wouldn't play.

And you know what's funny? This year both Jeter and Gardner have been bad (Jeter even worse than last year) and they STILL lead the AL in offense. Lead-off hitters are less important.

Or what about the Cardinals, with beastly Ryan Theriot and his whopping .341 OBP? They lead the majors in offense.

Uh, Yankees have Texeira, Alex Rodriguez, Robinson Cano, Curtis Granderson, Jorge Posada, not to mention Jeter is heating up now...

The Cardinals have a middle of the Lineup that consists of Pujols-Holiday, Berkman... not to mention Colby Rausmus...

Point Proven. You need to quit drinking the Cool Aid Bro.

[brm7675]

They're not going to keep him. All those teams sign back loaded contracts with their young stars to trade them later, just like the Royals with Greinke...

When Greinke was going to make 13 Million from like 7 Million, they traded him...

Markins traded Uggla away before his back loaded year of salary hit, and will do the same thing with Johnson.

I have every piece of evidence that they have 12 Arbitration players available... Look it up on Cots...

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tQJ2iJ0-ErOo_z9G3xKSQ9g&output=html

Oh, and how did Cueto do in his start? Was he clearly not ready as you said?

Again the Marlins are moving into a new stadium, they can't say "we need a new stadium to keep players" then turn around and dump their ACE. Won't happen.

As for Cueto, he faced the Cubs and the wind was blowing in. Plus he throw over 100+ pitches and how many innings did he go?

[brm7675]

Uh, Yankees have Texeira, Alex Rodriguez, Robinson Cano, Curtis Granderson, Jorge Posada, not to mention Jeter is heating up now...

The Cardinals have a middle of the Lineup that consists of Pujols-Holiday, Berkman... not to mention Colby Rausmus...

Point Proven. You need to quit drinking the Cool Aid Bro.

Jeter is heating up? Really...OMG that has to be the funniest thing I have ever read...:laugh:

[The DARK]

It's true, leadoff should be ultra low priority. Stubbs has been excellent so far, Lewis is off the DL, and Sappelt is on his way up.

I get why the Reds would be an ideal destination for this guy, but his payroll means that if we want him to be anything more than a rental, it gets that much harder to resign Votto and important guys like Stubbs and the pitchers. Most immediately, this might mean we can't afford to bring back Phillips, which is a greater drop-off in quality from what Reyes will add, in my opinion. Like management has said, we need a culture of winning, not a team that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up after its window has passed.

[Hondo]

It's true, leadoff should be ultra low priority. Stubbs has been excellent so far, Lewis is off the DL, and Sappelt is on his way up.

I get why the Reds would be an ideal destination for this guy, but his payroll means that if we want him to be anything more than a rental, it gets that much harder to resign Votto and important guys like Stubbs and the pitchers. Most immediately, this might mean we can't afford to bring back Phillips, which is a greater drop-off in quality from what Reyes will add, in my opinion. Like management has said, we need a culture of winning, not a team that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up after its window has passed.

Hey I Love Stubbs but him Striking out 2 times a game is not ideal for lead off... I would prefer Stubbs down in the order... In fact I think Stubbs would be a Good 4th Hitter... But 6th would be Ideal...

[Hondo]

Jeter is heating up? Really...OMG that has to be the funniest thing I have ever read...:laugh:

4-6 with 2 Home Runs yesterday.

Look at the Box Score.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=310508113

[Hondo]

Again the Marlins are moving into a new stadium, they can't say "we need a new stadium to keep players" then turn around and dump their ACE. Won't happen.

As for Cueto, he faced the Cubs and the wind was blowing in. Plus he throw over 100+ pitches and how many innings did he go?

Look at the Arbitration eligible players. Its at 11.

[The DARK]

Hey I Love Stubbs but him Striking out 2 times a game is not ideal for lead off... I would prefer Stubbs down in the order... In fact I think Stubbs would be a Good 4th Hitter... But 6th would be Ideal...

Then who would protect him? The guy is a true steal threat, and you can't expect 7-9 in our lineup to give him as many run opportunities as he is capable of. Batting cleanup would make sense as long as Bruce produces behind him.

[brm7675]

Look at the Arbitration eligible players. Its at 11.

So?

[Hondo]

So?

Oh ok yep you're right... My Bad.

:rolleyes:

[brm7675]

Oh ok yep you're right... My Bad.

:rolleyes:

so they have 11 players? They are moving into a new stadium which will generate more revenue to pay those players and they get a ton of change from MLB. Again, you don't go to your tax paying public, demand a new stadium with the idea of then dumping talent once you make the move. They will move others before they move Johnson.

[lonewolf371]

4-6 with 2 Home Runs yesterday.

Look at the Box Score.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=310508113
:lol:

One game means he's "heating up"? Tell that to the 74 ground balls he's hit this year. His ground ball rate has always been high and it's spiked even more this year with his age. A one-game luck streak doesn't mean anything; Jeter is cooked. When he OPSes below .700 this year and the Yankees still lead the majors in offense, then you'll realize.

The middle of the order matters. Trading away middle of the order prospects like Mes for a much less important lead-off hitter like Reyes that will be gone in a year is not a sound move at all.

Then who would protect him? The guy is a true steal threat, and you can't expect 7-9 in our lineup to give him as many run opportunities as he is capable of. Batting cleanup would make sense as long as Bruce produces behind him.
Actually, the 7-9 spot in our lineup is really good compared to most teams. You put him down there with a guy like Hanigan behind him that makes contact no matter what pitch it is, and the hit-and-run is probably even more effective than when he bats in front of Phillips. Stubbs is ideally in the 7-slot. Even I'll admit that and I've spent 2-3 pages arguing against trading for Reyes.

[Hondo]

:lol:

One game means he's "heating up"? Tell that to the 74 ground balls he's hit this year. His ground ball rate has always been high and it's spiked even more this year with his age. A one-game luck streak doesn't mean anything; Jeter is cooked. When he OPSes below .700 this year and the Yankees still lead the majors in offense, then you'll realize.

Listen smart one... He was 2/4 the night before with a Double so it just wasnt one game...

So here ya go, laugh and say two games but the fact is he is hitting the ball with more authority then earlier.

Also, the Yankees lineup from 1-9 is better than anyone else's in the major leagues, With the Philles being a close second 1-8 as far as offensive machine.

For you to comare the Reds lineup that includes Paul Janish, Chris Vailika/Rolen, Gomes/Lewis, and Hernadez/Hanigan (even thought Hernadigan does a great job) is abosolutely ludicrous.

C Russel Martin C Hernadez/Hanigan
1B Tex 1B Votto
2B Cano 2B Phillips
3B Alex Rodriguez 3B Valikia/Rolen
SS Jeter SS Janish
LF Granderson LF Gomes/Lewis/Heisey
CF Gardner CF Stubbs
RF Swisher RF Bruce


The Reds are better at Center and Right - Tied at 1B

The Yankees are way better top to bottom in the lineup...

Thanks for playing. You dont pass go or collect $200

[brm7675]

C Russel Martin C Hernadez/Hanigan
1B Tex 1B Votto
2B Cano 2B Phillips
3B Alex Rodriguez 3B Valikia/Rolen
SS Jeter SS Janish
LF Granderson LF Gomes/Lewis/Heisey
CF Gardner CF Stubbs
RF Swisher RF Bruce


The Reds are better at Center and Right - Tied at 1B

The Yankees are way better top to bottom in the lineup...

Thanks for playing. You dont pass go or collect $200

Catcher: HUGE Advantage Reds
First Base: Slight advantage Reds
2nd Base: Slight Advante Yanks
3rd Base: Huge advantage Yanks
SS: Advantage Reds
LF: Advanate Yanks
CF: HUge advante Reds
RF: Huge advtange Reds

So Reds take: Catcher, First, SS, CF, RF
Yanks take; 2nd, 3rd, LF

[lonewolf371]

Listen smart one... He was 2/4 the night before with a Double so it just wasnt one game...

So here ya go, laugh and say two games but the fact is he is hitting the ball with more authority then earlier.

Also, the Yankees lineup from 1-9 is better than anyone else's in the major leagues, With the Philles being a close second 1-8 as far as offensive machine.

For you to comare the Reds lineup that includes Paul Janish, Chris Vailika/Rolen, Gomes/Lewis, and Hernadez/Hanigan (even thought Hernadigan does a great job) is abosolutely ludicrous.

C Russel Martin C Hernadez/Hanigan
1B Tex 1B Votto
2B Cano 2B Phillips
3B Alex Rodriguez 3B Valikia/Rolen
SS Jeter SS Janish
LF Granderson LF Gomes/Lewis/Heisey
CF Gardner CF Stubbs
RF Swisher RF Bruce


The Reds are better at Center and Right - Tied at 1B

The Yankees are way better top to bottom in the lineup...

Thanks for playing. You dont pass go or collect $200
It's still only two games. This considering the multitude of terrible games he's had the rest of the season where he was lucky to hit a single.

How are Teixeira and Votto equal? Teixeira's never OPSed over 1 in a season. Plus, Votto did it without protection. Votto's not even getting pitched to this year and he's still playing better.

Aside from that, you're just making my point for me. Jose Reyes = not needed. What matters is the middle of the order, guys like A-Rod, Tex, and Cano. I'll take my $200.

[Hondo]

Catcher: HUGE Advantage Reds
First Base: Slight advantage Reds
2nd Base: Slight Advante Yanks
3rd Base: Huge advantage Yanks
SS: Advantage Reds
LF: Advanate Yanks
CF: HUge advante Reds
RF: Huge advtange Reds

So Reds take: Catcher, First, SS, CF, RF
Yanks take; 2nd, 3rd, LF

Russell Martin is on pace for 30 Homers & 100 RBI - Yankees advantage
I would say Votto and Tex are equals
Robinson Cano is light out better offensively right now then BP - Yankees Win
Derek Jeter will always on his worst day be better offensively than Janish

Yankees win top to bottom lineup
Patterson has 11 Homers and is a HUGE advantage to put it in your terms

[Hondo]

It's still only two games. This considering the multitude of terrible games he's had the rest of the season where he was lucky to hit a single.

How are Teixeira and Votto equal? Teixeira's never OPSed over 1 in a season. Plus, Votto did it without protection. Votto's not even getting pitched to this year and he's still playing better.

Aside from that, you're just making my point for me. Jose Reyes = not needed. What matters is the middle of the order, guys like A-Rod, Tex, and Cano. I'll take my $200.

Man, I am saying Reyes would improve the Lineup. Thats it.

[brm7675]

Russell Martin is on pace for 30 Homers & 100 RBI - Yankees advantage
I would say Votto and Tex are equals
Robinson Cano is light out better offensively right now then BP - Yankees Win
Derek Jeter will always on his worst day be better offensively than Janish

Yankees win top to bottom lineup
Patterson has 11 Homers and is a HUGE advantage to put it in your terms

"is on pace" wow now are those not some of the most famous words around. What did Martin do last year? How about in 2009?

Votto and Tex equal? Really, please stop..

Jeter in his day was better, right now a one legged blind man could play better SS. He wouldn't be the starting SS on any other team in Major league baseball this season outside of the Yankees and you can dam sure bet there are some in teh Yankee organization who wished he wasn't there's.

Sorry Yanks are getting old, they will be lucky to make the playoffs this year...

[brm7675]

Man, I am saying Reyes would improve the Lineup. Thats it.

He would, but at what cost. Adding players especially rentals is not a good move for a team like the Reds. We tried it in the past and it just doesn't work. IF and it's a HUGE if, the Reds make a move it has to be for a player who will not only contribute this year but in future years and Reyes wouldn't be that player.

[lonewolf371]

Man, I am saying Reyes would improve the Lineup. Thats it.
I think he would, too. However, he would hurt the farm a lot more and this team is going to be around for longer than 3 years. In Mes we're talking about a catcher with a legit middle-of-the-order bat and great All-Star potential. Those guys don't grow on trees. He also bats right handed, and if he graduates to the big leagues this year he may be the guy to protect Votto over the last two years of Votto's contract.

[Hondo]

I think he would, too. However, he would hurt the farm a lot more and this team is going to be around for longer than 3 years. In Mes we're talking about a catcher with a legit middle-of-the-order bat and great All-Star potential. Those guys don't grow on trees. He also bats right handed, and if he graduates to the big leagues this year he may be the guy to protect Votto over the last two years of Votto's contract.

Then we are in dissagreement on the cost of prospects involved...

So I think this team has the players to trade and I think Reyes will be available as a salary dump... I dont think it will take 2 preimium prospects. It will take one like in the Cliff Lee deal...

IMO, it would be worth the trade of 1 blue chip and 2/3 next level prospects.

[lonewolf371]

Then we are in dissagreement on the cost of prospects involved...

So I think this team has the players to trade and I think Reyes will be available as a salary dump... I dont think it will take 2 preimium prospects. It will take one like in the Cliff Lee deal...

IMO, it would be worth the trade of 1 blue chip and 2/3 next level prospects.
Again, the only prospect we have that's rated as high as Justin Smoak is Aroldis Chapman. Even still, many would make a convincing argument that Mes is the only premium prospect that we have right now and I wouldn't give up Mes for Reyes.

[signalhome]

Again, the only prospect we have that's rated as high as Justin Smoak is Aroldis Chapman. Even still, many would make a convincing argument that Mes is the only premium prospect that we have right now and I wouldn't give up Mes for Reyes.

Yep. I don't think everyone is realizing how highly Smoak was/is rated as a prospect -- he's well above anyone the Reds have, aside from Chapman. I'm having a hard time believing the Mets will take anything less than Mesoraco plus another of the Reds' top 10 prospects. That's just a really steep price to pay for a half-year rental. Maybe I'm higher on Mesoraco than most, but I'm pretty excited about seeing him in the next year or so, and I'm not very comfortable giving him up for someone that the Reds will only control for a few months -- even someone as talented as Jose Reyes.

[brm7675]

Then we are in dissagreement on the cost of prospects involved...

So I think this team has the players to trade and I think Reyes will be available as a salary dump... I dont think it will take 2 preimium prospects. It will take one like in the Cliff Lee deal...

IMO, it would be worth the trade of 1 blue chip and 2/3 next level prospects.

the only way I would consider the trade would be if Reyes signed an extension before the deal was complete. Something like 3 years between 35-40 million. outside of that it's just not worth it...