Carpenter

[Magdal]

I finally got around to reading that long Carpenter and his kids thread. Surprized to see that the brawl is still so fresh in the minds of fans of both teams.

Just recently the St. Louis fanbase and writers have started to question his attitude and ability. An interesting thing occored last week: a man slid hard into Molina, scoring a big run. On his way back to his dugout, the player paused ever so briefly to see if Yadier was OK. Carpenter went into a rage!

The essence of the outburst was "Get your ass back in the dugout you blankety blank!" And he stomped around out there with unrightful indignation for a bit until he was knocked out of the game.

His frustration is mounting by the start. He is STILL winless on the season. Combined with his sub par pitching he has been getting no run support. By contrast, Mc Clellan, thought to be the 4th starter is 5 and 0 and with mucho run support! Must be driving Carp half crazy.

Like a volcano, I expect him to erupt any game now. It could have happened in that game that I described if that player had confronted Carp. But he seemed to be stunned and a little nervous about it and sheepishly went to the dugout. It may happen on Sunday vs. the Reds.

I was only 1/2 watching that game and can't recall the player or team involved. Maybe someone here can pick me up?

[Swampturkey]

What St. Louis media has picked up on this?? I live in St. Louis, am involved in Cards media groups on twitter and facebook and have not read a single thing about it. I also watch all the Cards programming on Fox Sports Midwest as well as the Sunday night sports shows here. There has been nothing.

I think you're making something out of nothing. During games, Carp is a completely different person. Very competitive, hates to lose, short fuse. He's different when he's not pitching. I'm not going to waste my breath convincing those here as I know it won't do any good, but I'm still wondering where you get your info from...

[Magdal]

Ah, Swamp Turkey to the rescue. Well, if you watch every game how did you miss the incedent I described?

And the buzz I'm talking about on Carp reffers to fan forums, post game conversations between anouncers and the like. NO ESPN coverage of course. The Cards are FAR below their radar. Pujols is having the worst start in the game, and all they can talk about is Jeter.

[lidspinner]

What St. Louis media has picked up on this?? I live in St. Louis, am involved in Cards media groups on twitter and facebook and have not read a single thing about it. I also watch all the Cards programming on Fox Sports Midwest as well as the Sunday night sports shows here. There has been nothing.

I think you're making something out of nothing. During games, Carp is a completely different person. Very competitive, hates to lose, short fuse. He's different when he's not pitching. I'm not going to waste my breath convincing those here as I know it won't do any good, but I'm still wondering where you get your info from...

swampturkey.........you are quickly losing your cred on here....there are a ton of Reds fans who respect the heck out of your opinion cause you normally are sensible in your posts...normally......but if you are going to sit back and act as if Carpenter is not losing his cool a little, and is starting to catch the eye of the media, then you sir are wearing the wrong colored glasses......I was not even looking for any ammo and I can remember 1 case on Baseball Tonight and 1 on quick pitch where the announcer commented on Carpenter and his fuse....maybe the St. Louis Media has not run with it yet but its not far.....

noone doubts if CC is a bulldog or not when he is on the mound....what most are saying is the guy is a flat out prick....on and off the field...the game does not revolve around Carpenter, not even when he is pitching and I think he is starting to see that.....he is one of those guys that is a stud, for sure...but when his ability starts to fail and he starts to lose games at a sudden pace, the whole world is going to tune in and watch...and a small part of me thinks most of Cardinal nation will sit back and applaud when he is gone..just as long as someone else takes his place in production.....I would even bet that you Card fans would trade Carp for a carp clone in a second, even if that Carp clone came dressed in Cubs clothes to practice every day...

[Magdal]

I think you got something there Lidspinner. The SwampTurkey must have seen the numerous instances where Carp would show up his teamates on the field and in the dugout in front of the camera last year. Not to mention his part in the brawl were words from old Dusty induced him blow up, escalating the whole mess.

The Cardinals as an organization don't like that stuff. They like to be seen as squeaky clean. Barring some radical change in attitude AND results, Carp's days are numbered. And where do you think he will land? Let's see...Rolen, Edmonds, Renteria...I could go on!:D

[Hey Meat]

swampturkey.........you are quickly losing your cred on here....there are a ton of Reds fans who respect the heck out of your opinion cause you normally are sensible in your posts...normally......but if you are going to sit back and act as if Carpenter is not losing his cool a little, and is starting to catch the eye of the media, then you sir are wearing the wrong colored glasses......I was not even looking for any ammo and I can remember 1 case on Baseball Tonight and 1 on quick pitch where the announcer commented on Carpenter and his fuse....maybe the St. Louis Media has not run with it yet but its not far.....

noone doubts if CC is a bulldog or not when he is on the mound....what most are saying is the guy is a flat out prick....on and off the field...the game does not revolve around Carpenter, not even when he is pitching and I think he is starting to see that.....he is one of those guys that is a stud, for sure...but when his ability starts to fail and he starts to lose games at a sudden pace, the whole world is going to tune in and watch...and a small part of me thinks most of Cardinal nation will sit back and applaud when he is gone..just as long as someone else takes his place in production.....I would even bet that you Card fans would trade Carp for a carp clone in a second, even if that Carp clone came dressed in Cubs clothes to practice every day...

I even heard about Carp's fuse when watching the D-Backs telecast versus the Reds early in the season. His rep is quickly spreading throughout the league. He is likely to erupt this week.. At Cubs Tuesday, or at Cincinnati on Sunday. Wish I could be there.

[lidspinner]

I will burn a Carpenter jersey "ala" Lebron style at Willies Pub if the reds sign him....If they sign him for league minimum and he wins the cy young, I might walk up and congratulate the reds Front Office, but I will hunt Dusty down and shove his toothpick up his nose for playing Carpenter enough times to win the cy young....I'd rather play for 2nd place the next few years as opposed to having Carpenter and competeting for 1st place.....thats how much I despise the guy, he is a cancer, and he is only worth his salt when he is winning 20+ games a year. So basically he is no longer worth his salt is what I am trying to say

[Razzle]

It was Hanley Ramirez who slid into Yadi during the Marlins series last week. I love watching Carp pitch, and really didn't notice the crap he's done up until a few years ago. It's becoming moreso the norm than the exception now, and that combined with his declining production make me think this will be his last year in St. Louis. Being competitive is one thing, but there is no place for just being a complete jackass as he's been several times over the past couple of seasons. I will always enjoy watching him pitch and what he has done over the last 7 years, but could definitely do without the antics he now brings.

[Swampturkey]

swampturkey.........you are quickly losing your cred on here....there are a ton of Reds fans who respect the heck out of your opinion cause you normally are sensible in your posts...normally......but if you are going to sit back and act as if Carpenter is not losing his cool a little, and is starting to catch the eye of the media, then you sir are wearing the wrong colored glasses......I was not even looking for any ammo and I can remember 1 case on Baseball Tonight and 1 on quick pitch where the announcer commented on Carpenter and his fuse....maybe the St. Louis Media has not run with it yet but its not far.....

noone doubts if CC is a bulldog or not when he is on the mound....what most are saying is the guy is a flat out prick....on and off the field...the game does not revolve around Carpenter, not even when he is pitching and I think he is starting to see that.....he is one of those guys that is a stud, for sure...but when his ability starts to fail and he starts to lose games at a sudden pace, the whole world is going to tune in and watch...and a small part of me thinks most of Cardinal nation will sit back and applaud when he is gone..just as long as someone else takes his place in production.....I would even bet that you Card fans would trade Carp for a carp clone in a second, even if that Carp clone came dressed in Cubs clothes to practice every day...

I'm not at all saying that Carp doesn't lose his cool. I know he does. What I was objecting to is Madgal's post saying the media is writing about Carpenter. I simply asked for evidence of this as I have not seen or heard ANYTHING. Last year, yes, after the brawl and a few other instances, people were talking about it, but this year, I have not heard anything.

I have watched Carpenter for many years and I know he seems to be different than he was a couple of years ago. I also have seen how he is OFF the field so I know he is not the total monster you all want/believe him to be. On the field, he doesn't do a great job of hiding his emotions. Off the field and behind the scenes, he is a beloved teammate and winner of the TEAM voted on Darryl Kile Award after the 2006 season. The award goes to the player most representing the traits DK had of being a great person, father and teammate. Other winners have been Mike Matheny, Adam Wainwright, Cal Eldred, Russ Springer, Skip Schumaker and Matt Holliday just to name a few. If he is such a horrible person, his teammates would not have given him that honor. I don't know what happens to him when he takes the mound. He's like bipoloar or something. Highs and lows.

I don't intend to argue about him the person because just as those in St. Louis will never change their minds about your guys, Phillips and Cueto, I realize nothing Carp does will make you like him. It's like politics. I don't argue that either as no one ever changes their opinions.

Carpenter is very popular in St. Louis. His Cy Young Award, All-Star start, World Series Championship, etc may have something to do with that though. You help us win, we love you for life. Period.

[Swampturkey]

It was Hanley Ramirez who slid into Yadi during the Marlins series last week. I love watching Carp pitch, and really didn't notice the crap he's done up until a few years ago. It's becoming moreso the norm than the exception now, and that combined with his declining production make me think this will be his last year in St. Louis. Being competitive is one thing, but there is no place for just being a complete jackass as he's been several times over the past couple of seasons. I will always enjoy watching him pitch and what he has done over the last 7 years, but could definitely do without the antics he now brings.

He really isn't "declining in production" as much as it may look. Aside from one horrible start this year, he has been pretty good. Just doesn't get any run support for some reason or the bullpen blows his games.

That said, I don't think his option will be picked up after the season because 1. the Cards will still make a push to retain Pujols and 2. now the Wainwright's option won't automatcially kick in since he'll end the season on the DL, they'll have to work out something new with him. 3. my guess is they'll try to resign Berkman, especially if Pujols goes.

side note, I'd probably like your guy Phillips if not for him being a "complete jackass" and I could do without all of his antics. To each their own.

[Swampturkey]

I think you got something there Lidspinner. The SwampTurkey must have seen the numerous instances where Carp would show up his teamates on the field and in the dugout in front of the camera last year. Not to mention his part in the brawl were words from old Dusty induced him blow up, escalating the whole mess.




NUMEROUS?? I know of ONE GAME with Brendan Ryan. What are the other instances in which he has shown up his teammates? I'd really like to know.

[Magdal]

NUMEROUS?? I know of ONE GAME with Brendan Ryan. What are the other instances in which he has shown up his teammates? I'd really like to know.You don't seem to know much about anything Turkey. Get back to me in Sept. when Carp is still the worst pitcher on the team, and Albert still the worst player for the $ in all of baseball.

[Parliament]

side note, I'd probably like your guy Phillips if not for him being a "complete jackass" and I could do without all of his antics. To each their own.

What antics? Telling the truth and playing killer D? :D

;)

[Razzle]

He really isn't "declining in production" as much as it may look. Aside from one horrible start this year, he has been pretty good. Just doesn't get any run support for some reason or the bullpen blows his games.
I pretty much agree with much of what you say here, but it just seems to me he's not dominating as much as he used to.


That said, I don't think his option will be picked up after the season because 1. the Cards will still make a push to retain Pujols and 2. now the Wainwright's option won't automatcially kick in since he'll end the season on the DL, they'll have to work out something new with him. 3. my guess is they'll try to resign Berkman, especially if Pujols goes.
Everything that I've read about the Wainwright situation has the option being a team option that they will assuredly pick up. Is there something I'm missing here?



side note, I'd probably like your guy Phillips if not for him being a "complete jackass" and I could do without all of his antics. To each their own.
Phillips is as much my guy as he is yours. I'm not a Reds fan, but a Cards fan.

[Razzle]

You don't seem to know much about anything Turkey. Get back to me in Sept. when Carp is still the worst pitcher on the team, and Albert still the worst player for the $ in all of baseball.

Carp will not be worse than McClellan and I doubt he's worse than Lohse or Westbrook. Pujols has a long way to fall from even his rough start to be worse values than Barry Zito and Vernon Wells.

[bounty37h]

Anyone catch tthe last ESPN Magazine, they do a column every issue with an anonymous player writing for all sports. Last one had a baseball player talking about baseballs unwritten rules. Mentioned the Cards as bieng the one team in baseball to complain and come after you if they sniff an excuse to or fel lthey ahve been wrognwed-which is always. Also said there is a rep around all clubhouses about the Cards in that fashion.

[chettt]

As I remember it, during the BRAWL & Rolen & Carpenter were dancing. Rolen was doing leading.

[Magdal]

Anyone catch tthe last ESPN Magazine, they do a column every issue with an anonymous player writing for all sports. Last one had a baseball player talking about baseballs unwritten rules. Mentioned the Cards as bieng the one team in baseball to complain and come after you if they sniff an excuse to or fel lthey ahve been wrognwed-which is always. Also said there is a rep around all clubhouses about the Cards in that fashion.

Every team takes on a little of the managers personality. In the case of the dour, loveless, stinkin' crybaby La Russa it's compounded by the legnth of time he has been there.

[Swampturkey]

What antics? Telling the truth and playing killer D? :D

;)

It's not just about what he says about my team, it's about him tweeting for all-star game votes, insulting a teenager on twitter because she made a crazy video for Colby Rasmus, it's about him being a jerk.

[Swampturkey]

As I remember it, during the BRAWL & Rolen & Carpenter were dancing. Rolen was doing leading.

Rolen and Carpenter are good friends actually. Have been for years.

Speaking of Carp, he was on the pregame show with Mike Matheny tonight and Mike asked him about his emotions and Carp admitted to get out of control and times and said he's actually better now than he was in college. :p

[Swampturkey]

Carp will not be worse than McClellan and I doubt he's worse than Lohse or Westbrook. Pujols has a long way to fall from even his rough start to be worse values than Barry Zito and Vernon Wells.

Exactly, but I wouldn't write off McClellan just yet if I were you. He'd always been a starter until getting to St. Louis where the put him in the pen. He has starter stuff and can get the job done. Westbrook apparently is a second half pitcher so while he has been better of late, I don't think he's better than Carpenter. Lohse is streaky.

[Swampturkey]

You don't seem to know much about anything Turkey. Get back to me in Sept. when Carp is still the worst pitcher on the team, and Albert still the worst player for the $ in all of baseball.

I know far more about the Cardinals than you do just as I'm sure you know far more about the reds than I do (actually, a poster on here messaged me and told me you were really a cubs fan posing as a reds fan.. so maybe I should say you know more about the cubs than I do...)

You seem to want to believe that the Cardinanls are a totally flawed team who are just lucky to have as many wins as they do. I will be here in September to point out how wrong you were about Carpenter and Pujols.

[Vottomatic]

Carpenter is probably the biggest baby in all of mlb. Cardinals definitely have a wuss reputation.

It all starts with the manager. Larussa whines so much, his players have taken the baton.

No wonder Pujols wants to get the heck out of there. He's probably tired of having to bring pacifiers and diapers for his teammates for every game.

[10xWSChamps]

I think you got something there Lidspinner. The SwampTurkey must have seen the numerous instances where Carp would show up his teamates on the field and in the dugout in front of the camera last year. Not to mention his part in the brawl were words from old Dusty induced him blow up, escalating the whole mess.

The Cardinals as an organization don't like that stuff. They like to be seen as squeaky clean. Barring some radical change in attitude AND results, Carp's days are numbered. And where do you think he will land? Let's see...Rolen, Edmonds, Renteria...I could go on!:D

Numerous instances? He yelled at Brendan Ryan once on the field, then talked to him in the dugout in the middle of the inning.




The essence of the outburst was "Get your ass back in the dugout you blankety blank!" And he stomped around out there with unrightful indignation for a bit until he was knocked out of the game.



I think you made this up too. Could you please show me where you read this or tell me where you heard it? KMOX post game shows are archived as is pretty much everything on 101 ESPN so if you could be specific about the show I would love to listen to it.


Magdal you have zero credibility. You used to pretend to be a Cardinals fan on the official mlb.com forums. One charade after another, maybe you're not even a Reds fan.

[Vottomatic]

Waaa! Waaa! Waaa!!!!

They should hire babysitters for the Cardinals clubhouse and dugout to deal with all the whining and crying.

[RiverRat13]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/06/2203641/cardinals-carpenter-marlins-ramirez.html

[swaisuc]

Man, they were willing to run him into the ground last night to try to get him his 1st win.

Hopefully that affects him here on Sunday.

[Magdal]

Numerous instances? He yelled at Brendan Ryan once on the field, then talked to him in the dugout in the middle of the inning.




I think you made this up too. Could you please show me where you read this or tell me where you heard it? KMOX post game shows are archived as is pretty much everything on 101 ESPN so if you could be specific about the show I would love to listen to it.


Magdal you have zero credibility. You used to pretend to be a Cardinals fan on the official mlb.com forums. One charade after another, maybe you're not even a Reds fan.I see I have to go thru this all again. I'm originally a Cardinal fan with a soft spot for the Cubs. (Mom a big Cubbie) Due to the my percieved disgrace of Marc McGwire and my disgust for the managing of LaRussa the luster is off. Way off.

When I posted on NSBB I never pretended to be a born Cub fan, but I was pulling for them when the Cards were out of it. Oddly, I was banned from that site for for bashing LaRussa!

Last year when the Reds made their surge I got interested and joined up here to kibbitz. I have never proposed to be a Reds fan. I have never said "We" in reference to the team. I say "the Reds". You can look it up. I have never bashed a Reds player, not even BP.

On game threads I'm pulling for the Reds. Every time. When they play the Cards I stay away. You can check that too. I know that everybody thinks you have to like only ONE team. I say you can only LOVE one team. Well, I don't love any team right now. I don't even love baseball the way I used to.
Too dam much greed.

If I was trying to bamboozle anybody I would have simply used a different screne name from "Magdal". Duh! And my feelings on Pujols, Carp and Tony are genuine. I don't like 'em. Is there a Red that I don't like? Just one: Dusty. But I did not like him LONG before he came to Cincy.

[texasdave]

Crybaby Carpenter was upset because of a call at the plate that they got right. LOL. And then nobody can look at Chrissie at the ball field. What a joke. What a jerk.

[bounty37h]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/06/2203641/cardinals-carpenter-marlins-ramirez.html

So, he thought it looked like he went out of his way to hit Yadi, but then admits he didnt even see it. How is he going to explain to his kids he is nothing more then a punk, a trouble making, crying liar??

[Swampturkey]

Man, they were willing to run him into the ground last night to try to get him his 1st win.

Hopefully that affects him here on Sunday.

I don't think he should have been sent out for the 7th because his pitch count was high, but it ended up working out anyway. He's been around long enough to know when he's reached his limit. I'm sure he told them he was fine.

As for the teammate aspect...I know you all can't stand Edmonds either, but he was co-hosting a local St. Louis radio show today and was talking about some of the players he's played with through the years (he talked about liking Phillips btw, although I have no clue why...but I won't get into THAT again.) and he said that Carpenter's attitude is nothing new, he's been this way for years, it's just that the media picked up on it more last year. Said that Carpenter is one of the best teammates he's ever had because he would do anything for one of his own. Said as a player, you love that personality on your team but he knows why others can't stand it. Said he just wants to win and is one of the biggest competitors he knows.

Good enough for me. I kinda like that he makes you all so angry and hate him cause reading the numerous threads about Carpenter makes the matchups more fun to watch as it's all about the bragging rights now. As long as his own teammates like him, I'm happy.

[Swampturkey]

Waaa! Waaa! Waaa!!!!

They should hire babysitters for the Cardinals clubhouse and dugout to deal with all the whining and crying.

I gotta say, for fans who complain so much about all the whining the Cardinals do in your opinions, you sure dedicated a lot of threads/posts to whining about what the Cardinals are doing....

[Vottomatic]

I gotta say, for fans who complain so much about all the whining the Cardinals do in your opinions, you sure dedicated a lot of threads/posts to whining about what the Cardinals are doing....

I'm not whining about them. I'm just pointing out they're whiners and crybabies.

Big difference. But I wouldn't expect a Cardinal Fan to be able to figure that out. Plus, I'd expect you to whine about my posts anyway since you're a Cardinal Fan.

So enjoy proving my point. :laugh:

[Swampturkey]

I'm not whining about them. I'm just pointing out they're whiners and crybabies.

Big difference. But I wouldn't expect a Cardinal Fan to be able to figure that out. Plus, I'd expect you to whine about my posts anyway since you're a Cardinal Fan.

So enjoy proving my point. :laugh:

Actually, you didn't prove anything to me. What you call pointing something out, I still call whining about whining. To each their own.

[bounty37h]

I don't think he should have been sent out for the 7th because his pitch count was high, but it ended up working out anyway. He's been around long enough to know when he's reached his limit. I'm sure he told them he was fine.

As for the teammate aspect...I know you all can't stand Edmonds either, but he was co-hosting a local St. Louis radio show today and was talking about some of the players he's played with through the years (he talked about liking Phillips btw, although I have no clue why...but I won't get into THAT again.) and he said that Carpenter's attitude is nothing new, he's been this way for years, it's just that the media picked up on it more last year. Said that Carpenter is one of the best teammates he's ever had because he would do anything for one of his own. Said as a player, you love that personality on your team but he knows why others can't stand it. Said he just wants to win and is one of the biggest competitors he knows.

Good enough for me. I kinda like that he makes you all so angry and hate him cause reading the numerous threads about Carpenter makes the matchups more fun to watch as it's all about the bragging rights now. As long as his own teammates like him, I'm happy.


Cause he would really go out there and say "yeah, my teammates the biggest richard in the game"

[Swampturkey]

Cause he would really go out there and say "yeah, my teammates the biggest richard in the game"

He complimented guys like Pujols, Carp, Wainwright, Mabry, etc but didn't have a high opinion of Vina (he didn't trash him on the air, just said there were some issues) and Hal McCrae.

He wasn't going to lie and he didn't. He also said that the 2006 team that won the world series was by far the worst playoff team he had ever been on. Jim Edmonds tells it like it is.