Reds at Phillies (5-24-11)

[Homer Bailey]

Stubbs 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Bruce 9
Hernandez 2
Heisey
Janish 6
Cueto RHP


KEEP IT THAT WAY DUSTY

[CTA513]

1 more walk for Rolen and he'll be tied with Janish, Hernandez and Cairo.

[Reds1]

finally. I was just talking to someone and said Heisey starting and he said phillips in the 2 hole with bruce on fire.

[edabbs44]

That's probably the best lineup with those names at this time.

[RichRed]

That's more like it.

[OldXOhio]

Who kidnapped Dusty and made out this lineup card?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Stubbs 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Bruce 9
Hernandez 2
Heisey
Janish 6
Cueto RHP



:clap: *standing ovation* :clap:

[Far East]

Is there be a better defensive 8 position players anywhere else in the Bigs?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Is there be a better defensive 8 position players anywhere else in the Bigs?

I'd say that's a big NO. But from what I've seen, Hernandez doesn't look anywhere CLOSE to as solid defensively as he did last season.

[VR]

Keep it simple.

[JaxRed]

Stubbs lines hard to 2b, then Phillips pops up 2b.

Votto goes oppo for a double to base of wall. Better fielder might have had that,

And then Rolen flares it over 1b for a bloop single and Reds take 1-0 lead.

Bruce K's swinging.

[Will M]

Stubbs lines hard to 2b, then Phillips pops up 2b.

Votto goes oppo for a double to base of wall. Better fielder might have had that,

And then Rolen flares it over 1b for a bloop single and Reds take 1-0 lead.

Bruce K's swinging.

these threads are to complain about the Reds each night. why the play by play? :D

[_Sir_Charles_]

Just a heads up for those out of towners like myself...game is televised on the MLB network tonight. One of the Braves games is too later this week.

[JaxRed]

Rollins taps back to Cueto, Utley flies to Stubbs, and Polanco flies lazily to Stubbs (who came in quickly).

Nice solid, under control inning for Cueto

[reds44]

Jose Reyes clap clap clap clap clap

[Cedric]

Paul Janish has to be the worst offensive player starting in baseball. Pops out again with guys on 3rd and 1st and nobody out.

[reds44]

Paul Janish has to be the worst offensive player starting in baseball. Pops out again with guys on 3rd and 1st and nobody out.
I'm told his glove makes up for it though.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Paul Janish has to be the worst offensive player starting in baseball. Pops out again with guys on 3rd and 1st and nobody out.

Yep. Zack Cozart, get ready son.

[reds44]

Yep. Zack Cozart, get ready son.
Don't think they'll go that route until they bow out of the Reyes sweepstakes. Keep his value as high as possible.

[JaxRed]

Hernandez shoots a double the opposite way, followed by a bloop single over 2nd to Heisey. But then Janish pops weakly to Utley in foul territory.

Cueto bunts over Heisey to 2b. All up to Stubbs. And on a ball that was WAY inside, Stubbs goes down swinging.

Cozart was 3-4 and a HR today.

[redsfaninbsg]

Man oh man, this offense is in bad shape right now.

[Plus Plus]

Right now, the Reds are effectively batting two pitchers back to back. Kind of disappointing to get a runner on third with no outs and not get him in.

[JaxRed]

Don't think they'll go that route until they bow out of the Reyes sweepstakes. Keep his value as high as possible.

Reds are not in Reyes sweepstakes.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Man oh man, this offense is in bad shape right now.

Huh? 4 hits thru 2 and leading 1-0. And STILL the 2nd most runs in the majors....even with us going thru this funk. We'll be fine.

[reds44]

The offense is fine, the SS just can't hit.

And neither can Gomes.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Phillies batting practice begins.

[Plus Plus]

Again, why is anyone acting like the Phillies have anything approaching an elite offense?

[redsfaninbsg]

Huh? 4 hits thru 2 and leading 1-0. And STILL the 2nd most runs in the majors....even with us going thru this funk. We'll be fine.

Playing the Phillies in Philadelphia and you don't score with a man on third base and nobody out. This after being abysmal for the last week, yes they are in great shape right now.

[redsfaninbsg]

Scoring runners from third with less than two outs with the bottom of the order up, what a novel idea.

[reds44]

Scoring runners from third with less than two outs with the bottom of the order up, what a novel idea.
Paul Janish wasn't batting.

[redsfaninbsg]

Paul Janish wasn't batting.

Cincinnati has a better offense.

[JaxRed]

Howard BARELY stays in the park, and then Bruce misplays a single into a 2b, and the score is tied 1-1. Ruiz grounds to 1b to advance runner to 3rd, and Brown drives him in with 2b.

Mayberry grounds out to end inning.

[reds44]

Cincinnati has a better offense.
Not when Paul Janish is batting lol

[Red in Chicago]

Again, why is anyone acting like the Phillies have anything approaching an elite offense?

against the reds staff, you don't really need an elite offense to score...

[Plus Plus]

against the reds staff, you don't really need an elite offense to score...

Cueto, who dominated the Cardinals league leading offense and has been pitching extremely well thus far, is far from being a batting tee.

I understand people feeling pessimistic during a losing streak (myself included), but a deep breath and a little bit of perspective is due.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

against the reds staff, you don't really need an elite offense to score...

This. You don't need anything close to an elite offense to beat the reds staff. Just be patient and one of the reds' walk-a-thon pitchers will give you all the runs you need.

[_Sir_Charles_]

:deadhorse:

Losing streaks suck, but the constant and repetitive pouncing on specific players gets OLD...QUICKLY. I'll see you guys tomorrow. I can listen to my daughters whine and moan. Sheesh.

[reds44]

Hahaha Johnny Cueto is a walk a thon?

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Hahaha Johnny Cueto is a walk a thon?

Cueto can't pitch 9 innings, so yes, be patient and someone will start the walkfest.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Bruce (who is usually a great defensive OF) took a horrible angle on that Ibanez "double."

[Cedric]

There is probably nothing Janish can do with his glove to make up for killing the Reds momentum today.

Some things just don't show up in the box score. Get a lead and Cueto might relax and pitch his game. Janish is just not going to cut it out there.

[reds44]

Cueto can't pitch 9 innings, so yes, be patient and someone will start the walkfest.
Johnny Cueto of the 2.7 BB/9 last season? Really?

[Blitz Dorsey]

Johnny Cueto of the 2.7 BB/9 last season? Really?

He's saying one of the relievers will commence the walk fest.

[reds44]

Oh. Whoops.

Well that's true lol

[CTA513]

There is probably nothing Janish can do with his glove to make up for killing the Reds momentum today.

Some things just don't show up in the box score. Get a lead and Cueto might relax and pitch his game. Janish is just not going to cut it out there.

Renteria was brought in as insurance and hes pretty much sucked.

[reds44]

Renteria was brought in as insurance and hes pretty much sucked.
I don't think anybody would argue that.

[reds44]

LOL Phillips!

[Cedric]

Renteria was brought in as insurance and hes pretty much sucked.

Honestly Walt did a terrible job this off season. Some really odd and/or dumb decisions. That's just the truth.

[alloverjr]

Reds Offense Fever....Catch, Catc, Cat, Ca, C, zzzzzzzzzz.

[Red in Chicago]

wow!! stubby guns him down

[Tom Servo]

'dat arm.

[Red in Chicago]

shouldn't jimmy at least have tried to ram him or slide, instead of literally just giving up?

[reds44]

shouldn't jimmy at least have tried to ram him or slide, instead of literally just giving up?
When you're hurt as often as him, it's probably a good idea to say uncle.

[reds44]

You think Janish could get one in the outfield if he was hitting off a tee?

[Reds Fanatic]

Reds go down 1-2-3 in the 4th. 2-1 Phillies mid 4th.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

This offense is boring. Vance Worley ... Vance freaking Worley is the latest to Cy Young the Reds

[Red in Chicago]

i'm sick of seeing the 100 year old ibanez get on base...

[reds44]

Heisey could not have played that ball any worse.

[Tom Servo]

Man watching the Reds has not been any fun this last week.

[Kc61]

Maybe they'll win a game in Atlanta.

[CrackerJack]

I could've hit that meatball out of the stadium. I guess it's the little things like that, that just separate the Reds from teams like the Phillies - just not on the same level.

[edabbs44]

Heisey could not have played that ball any worse.

He looked like a clown out there.

[alloverjr]

Heisey could not have played that ball any worse.

Kid's not doing himself any favors. Making Gomes look good on D.

[CTA513]

He looked like a clown out there.

he looked like Gomes?

[edabbs44]

Man watching the Reds has not been any fun this last week.

Very difficult to watch, but as GM once said, you gotta have faith. They are better than this.

[edabbs44]

he looked like Gomes?

He has looked like Gomes more than Gomes has this year.

[edabbs44]

Kid's not doing himself any favors. Making Gomes look good on D.

Heisey has made his name in replacement scenarios. As a starter he's been less than impressive.

[edabbs44]

Worley up, big AB. 2 down, 1st and 3rd. 1-1 count.

[Cedric]

He has looked like Gomes more than Gomes has this year.

Gomes is a terrible baseball player, get over him and admit you were wrong. I'm wrong all the time about this game.

[reds44]

Chris Heisey of the .812 OPS variety with a hit tonight.

[Cedric]

Downgrading Heisey doesn't make your boy Gomes look better.

[Kc61]

Downgrading Heisey doesn't make your boy Gomes look better.

Yeah, Gomes, he's the answer.

[edabbs44]

Gomes is a terrible baseball player, get over him and admit you were wrong. I'm wrong all the time about this game.

I'm really not sure what I was wrong about. I haven't seen anyone on the roster who has really outplayed him when he has been benched both last year and this year. Sure he has sucked for the last month, that is easy to admit. But all I have ever backed him on is that the in house options aren't all that much better. I believe that I was pro-getting a replacement last offseason.

[reds44]

I'm really not sure what I was wrong about. I haven't seen anyone on the roster who has really outplayed him when he has been benched both last year and this year. Sure he has sucked for the last month, that is easy to admit. But all I have ever backed him on is that the in house options aren't all that much better. I believe that I was pro-getting a replacement last offseason.
Literally every singe hitter on the roster other than Janish is outperforming him. You realize that, right?

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I could've hit that meatball out of the stadium. I guess it's the little things like that, that just separate the Reds from teams like the Phillies - just not on the same level.

Walt seemed to think they were on the Phillies level, despite what we saw last October. Hence, the stand-pat offseason.

Does anyone honestly think that this wouldn't be the result again if (big big if) the Reds get back to the playoffs? This team needs a legitimate no. 1 starter.

[Cedric]

I'm really not sure what I was wrong about. I haven't seen anyone on the roster who has really outplayed him when he has been benched both last year and this year. Sure he has sucked for the last month, that is easy to admit. But all I have ever backed him on is that the in house options aren't all that much better. I believe that I was pro-getting a replacement last offseason.

Heisey right now is better on one leg than Gomes. I can't think of a worse option in LF than Gomes right now.

He's only out there because Walt and Dusty screwed this whole thing up terribly. Pride is something old baseball guys have a plenty.

[Kc61]

Heisey right now is better on one leg than Gomes. I can't think of a worse option in LF than Gomes right now.

He's only out there because Walt and Dusty screwed this whole thing up terribly. Pride is something old baseball guys have a plenty.

Gomes is out there because he agreed to a cheap option. Period.

[Reds Fanatic]

Leadoff walk to Cueto

[edabbs44]

Downgrading Heisey doesn't make your boy Gomes look better.

If Gomes made that play there would have been 5 heart attacks, 4 pages of game thread and 17 new threads started all because of the play. It barely gets a mention when Heisey does it and his misplay in Cleveland wasn't even mentioned in the GT this weekend.

This is a game thread, where we discuss the game. Heisey misplayed a ball badly. We cannot discuss it?

[reds44]

The Reds had obvious needs at SS and LF for the last two off seasons now. They never seriously addressed them.

And now they are paying for it, as they should.

[reds44]

If Gomes made that play there would have been 5 heart attacks, 4 pages of game thread and 17 new threads started all because of the play. It barely gets a mention when Heisey does it and his misplay in Cleveland wasn't even mentioned in the GT this weekend.

This is a game thread, where we discuss the game. Heisey misplayed a ball badly. We cannot discuss it?
That's because Heisey will make a lot more good defensive plays than bad. It's the same reason nobody gets upset when Bruce, Phillips, Rolen, or Janish makes an error. They happen.

[Cedric]

If Gomes made that play there would have been 5 heart attacks, 4 pages of game thread and 17 new threads started all because of the play. It barely gets a mention when Heisey does it and his misplay in Cleveland wasn't even mentioned in the GT this weekend.

This is a game thread, where we discuss the game. Heisey misplayed a ball badly. We cannot discuss it?

Sure, but I didn't bring up Gomes. I was responding to what I saw was a comparison.

I'm just bitter and mad at the Reds right now, carry on.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ground rule double by Stubbs. 2nd and 3rd with no outs

[reds44]

For the love of God score these guys.

[edabbs44]

Heisey right now is better on one leg than Gomes. I can't think of a worse option in LF than Gomes right now.

He's only out there because Walt and Dusty screwed this whole thing up terribly. Pride is something old baseball guys have a plenty.

Heisey's better at pinch hitting. I think that's all we can definitively say right now. He has done nothing to really distinguish himself from anyone.

[reds44]

Brandon!

3-3.

[edabbs44]

2 run 2 bagger from BP. Nice! Tied.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bloop double to right by Phillips. Tie game 3-3.

[CTA513]

Should of hit the guys batting around .200 in the #2 spot.

[edabbs44]

Sure, but I didn't bring up Gomes. I was responding to what I saw was a comparison.

I'm just bitter and mad at the Reds right now, carry on.

I'm responding to multiple people. Cannot keep track of the daggers being thrown at me.

Go Reds.

[Tom Servo]

scored a single with an error, not a double btw.

[reds44]

Heisey's better at pinch hitting. I think that's all we can definitively say right now. He has done nothing to really distinguish himself from anyone.
Chris Heisey has 272 career ABs. That's a tiny sample size, which you make smaller by splitting it between starts at PHs. During that time, he's posted a .772 OPS, and a 109 OPS+ plus.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the guy who pointed out how hard it is for young guys to come up and succeed?

And yet you try to tear him down because you like Jonny Gomes?

It's a shame. You're better than that.

[edabbs44]

That's because Heisey will make a lot more good defensive plays than bad. It's the same reason nobody gets upset when Bruce, Phillips, Rolen, or Janish makes an error. They happen.

I hear a lot more about Heisey's good plays than I see them. He is obviously not a bad fielder, but he is very overrated so far in the field.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto walks. 1st and 2nd.

[reds44]

I hear a lot more about Heisey's good plays than I see them. He is obviously not a bad fielder, but he is very overrated so far in the field.
He's a lot better at everything than Gomes right now.

And you can't argue that.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen flies out to the track in center. 2nd and 3rd with 1 out.

[CTA513]

the guy playing CF for the Phillies gave himself no chance of throwing out Votto at 2nd after he did that little spin after catching the ball.

[edabbs44]

Chris Heisey has 272 career ABs. That's a tiny sample size, which you make smaller by splitting it between starts at PHs. During that time, he's posted a .772 OPS, and a 109 OPS+ plus.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you the guy who pointed out how hard it is for young guys to come up and succeed?

And yet you try to tear him down because you like Jonny Gomes?

It's a shame. You're better than that.

It is very hard for young guys to succeed. I don't tear him down b/c of Gomes. I speak objectively about him when discussing LF. To be honest, I think his value is inflated b/c he isn't Gomes. Just like Janish was pimped hard last year b/c he wasn't Cabrera. And Dickerson was the same b/c he wasn't Gomes.

I like Heisey as a player, but I don't see him as an upgrade enough for all the bellyaching I have heard about him.

[edabbs44]

He's a lot better at everything than Gomes right now.

And you can't argue that.

Right now, there aren't many people worse than Gomes. Maybe Janish at hitting. ;)

But I wouldn't bet on him putting up better offensive numbers than Gomes from here on out.

[CTA513]

Bruce flails at strike 3 with a runner at 3rd and less than 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce chases an outside pitch and strikes out swinging.

[Tom Servo]

disappointing at-bat for Bruce.

[Kc61]

Just a terrible at bat by Bruce.

[reds44]

It is very hard for young guys to succeed. I don't tear him down b/c of Gomes. I speak objectively about him when discussing LF. To be honest, I think his value is inflated b/c he isn't Gomes. Just like Janish was pimped hard last year b/c he wasn't Cabrera. And Dickerson was the same b/c he wasn't Gomes.

I like Heisey as a player, but I don't see him as an upgrade enough for all the bellyaching I have heard about him.

.268/.333/.479/.812
.171/.306/.372/.678

And whether or not you think he's overrated in the field, he's better than Gomes.

So that's not an upgrade?

Btw I never in my life have said Janish should be the Reds starting SS.

[edabbs44]

disappointing at-bat for Bruce.

Yes, that was a key AB. Hopefully Ramon can do something. 2-0 count

[Degenerate39]

My God is this a game thread or a Janish thread

[Reds Fanatic]

3-0 count

[edabbs44]

.268/.333/.479/.812
.171/.306/.372/.678

And whether or not you think he's overrated in the field, he's better than Gomes.

So that's not an upgrade?

Btw I never in my life have said Janish should be the Reds starting SS.

Heisey, please please please make me eat crap right now.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hernandez walks. Bases loaded.

[Kc61]

Let's see how Heisey does here.

[reds44]

Come on!

[edabbs44]

Full count, please don't chase.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Unreal the offensive failures. LF is just killing this team.

[Tom Servo]

blerghhhhhhhh

[edabbs44]

F!

[CTA513]

Heisey with a Gomes

[reds44]

Put that one on Bruce.

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey fouls out to 1st. 3-3 mid 5th.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Put that one on Bruce.

And Heisey. He wasn't exactly facing Roy Halladay there. We have to wait til tomorrow for that joy

[Kc61]

Put that one on Bruce.

The first pitch to Bruce looked so hittable. Fastball, a bit low, right down the middle.

[reds44]

And Heisey. He wasn't exactly facing Roy Halladay there. We have to wait til tomorrow for that joy
Well of course.

[reds44]

Joey!!

[Reds Fanatic]

Wow. Great play by Votto.

[CTA513]

Votto showing why people should stop the Votto to LF and Alonso to 1B talk.

[edabbs44]

JV has been really impressive in the field this year. He looks awkward sometimes, but he gets it done.

[757690]

And it's a brand new 4 and a half inning game :)

[CTA513]

JV has been really impressive in the field this year. He looks awkward sometimes, but he gets it done.

Its because hes Canadian.

:D

[Reds Fanatic]

Utley grounds out to 1st. 2 outs.

[edabbs44]

Has Polanco 0-2, gotta get him

[edabbs44]

5-3, nice.

[Reds Fanatic]

Polanco grounds out to 3rd. 3-3 after 5.

[reds44]

Quality start.

ERRR that was only the 5th lol

[Kc61]

Anyone got a pitch count on Cueto?

[Reds Fanatic]

Anyone got a pitch count on Cueto?

82 pitches

[redsfaninbsg]

When was Janish's last hit?

[Reds Fanatic]

David Herndon in to pitch. Polanco makes a diving stop and throws Janish out. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Cueto grounds out to 3rd. 2 outs.

[_Sir_Charles_]

That's 2 hits taken away from Janish by nice defensive plays tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

When was Janish's last hit?

Janish last had a hit a week ago. Before that he last hit on May 6th. He is now with 0 for 3 tonight 5 for 50 (.100) this month.

[Kc61]

That's 2 hits taken away from Janish by nice defensive plays tonight.

Reds are good at beating incompetent defensive teams.

The trick is to occasionally beat a competent defensive team, like the Phillies.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stubbs strikes out looking. 3-3 mid 6th.

[WebScorpion]

Janish last had a hit a week ago. Before that he last hit on May 6th. He is now with 0 for 3 tonight 5 for 50 (.100) this month.I have no problem with a lack of offense from Janish as long as he's batting near the bottom of the order. The pitchers need his glove out there as much as possible. If we get some offense from left field, our SS wouldn't need to produce as much.

[Reds Fanatic]

Howard with a leadoff walk

[edabbs44]

I have no problem with a lack of offense from Janish as long as he's batting near the bottom of the order. The pitchers need his glove out there as much as possible. If we get some offense from left field, our SS wouldn't need to produce as much.

I'm not sure that his glove can carry this bad of a bat.

[Kc61]

I have no problem with a lack of offense from Janish as long as he's batting near the bottom of the order. The pitchers need his glove out there as much as possible. If we get some offense from left field, our SS wouldn't need to produce as much.

Sorry, but Janish's offense this year is unacceptable. Only a pitcher can get away with this kind of bat.

My question is whether he is healthy. PJ hit better earlier, before his injury.

[Cedric]

Ibanez has no bat speed and is a notorious low ball hitter. I have no idea why he has seen so many breaking balls tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ibanez lines out to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruiz singles to center. 1st and 2nd. Cueto now at 100 pitches.

[Kc61]

Cueto needs to be lifted right now.

[redsfaninbsg]

Cueto needs to be lifted right now.

But he hit last inning and Dusty has to justify allowing him to hit.

[Kc61]

But he hit last inning and Dusty has to justify allowing him to hit.

Cueto is not a ground ball pitcher. This doesn't bode well. Hopefully it works out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bray and Ondrusek warming up

[Reds Fanatic]

Brown grounds into a 4-6 FC. 1st and 3rd with 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Mayberry grounds out to 3rd. 3-3 after 6.

[CTA513]

Nearly an infield RBI single after Rolen took his time.

[Reds Fanatic]

At 108 pitches that should be it for Cueto tonight: 6IP, 7H, 3ER, 2BB, 1K.

[Kc61]

At 108 pitches that should be it for Cueto tonight: 6IP, 7H, 3ER, 2BB, 1K.

It definitely should be.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Janish was hitting .280 just prior to the ankle injury. He'd just had an 8 game stretch where he went 10 for 30 with 5 doubles.

This is now his 9th game back since the injury. He's gone 1 for 33 in those 9 games. I think he's just in a slump. I certainly didn't hear many people complaining about his offense prior to these past 9 games. Of course it's gotten even more exaggerated due to Dusty hitting him 2nd all those times. Simply put, I think people are overreacting to Janish's slump. He's certainly hit the ball harder than Heisey has tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

Michael Stutes in to pitch

[Captain Hook]

I have no problem with a lack of offense from Janish as long as he's batting near the bottom of the order. The pitchers need his glove out there as much as possible. If we get some offense from left field, our SS wouldn't need to produce as much.

I actually agree.I'd even put some of the blame for his struggles on Dusty.Paul seemed to be doing fine batting 8th then for some reason he's moved up in the order.I don't think this happened until he came back from his injury witch makes it even more odd to me.Paul will be fine batting 8th imo.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips grounds out to short on the first pitch.

[edabbs44]

I actually agree.I'd even put some of the blame for his struggles on Dusty.Paul seemed to be doing fine batting 8th then for some reason he's moved up in the order.I don't think this happened until he came back from his injury witch makes it even more odd to me.Paul will be fine batting 8th imo.

I'm not sure how the spot in the order would make that much of a difference.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto singles to center.

[edabbs44]

Janish was hitting .280 just prior to the ankle injury. He'd just had an 8 game stretch where he went 10 for 30 with 5 doubles.

This is now his 9th game back since the injury. He's gone 1 for 33 in those 9 games. I think he's just in a slump. I certainly didn't hear many people complaining about his offense prior to these past 9 games. Of course it's gotten even more exaggerated due to Dusty hitting him 2nd all those times. Simply put, I think people are overreacting to Janish's slump. He's certainly hit the ball harder than Heisey has tonight.

Paul went 6 for 45 earlier this year in full health.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen pops out to 3rd on the first pitch. 2 outs.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I'm not sure how the spot in the order would make that much of a difference.

Combine that with the fact that he easily may have come back early from the injury. I think those 2 things combined have put him in this funk.

[Cedric]

Paul went 6 for 45 earlier this year in full health.

Paul Janish can't hit. I also don't see any reason to debate otherwise.

[edabbs44]

Paul Janish can't hit. I also don't see any reason to debate otherwise.

I think the only thing to debate is how bad he is. Is he the worst hitter in baseball bad, like he is at this point?

[reds44]

I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but if you're blaming his injury you are seriously grasping at straws. When it comes to hitting, Paul Janish sucks.

[reds44]

I think the only thing to debate is how bad he is. Is he the worst hitter in baseball bad, like he is at this point?
Probably right up there. Normally people who hit like him are at least fast and they can luck into some hits. He's not.

[redsfaninbsg]

Bruce has looked pathetic tonight.

[CTA513]

Bruces swings through back to back fastballs to end the Reds half of the inning.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce strikes out swinging again. 3-3 mid 7th.

[NJReds]

Bruce swings through three fastballs down the middle.

[edabbs44]

I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but if you're blaming his injury you are seriously grasping at straws. When it comes to hitting, Paul Janish sucks.

The injury and the batting order.

[Captain Hook]

I'm not sure how the spot in the order would make that much of a difference.

The pressure of hitting 2nd in front of last years MVP could weigh heavy on a light hitting SS.Paul just needs to worry about playing defense instead of being someone asked to spark the offense.That is unless you buy into the bunting Stubbs over for Votto theory.

[alloverjr]

Bruce forgot he was on fire. That's at least 3 K's tonight with people on.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Paul went 6 for 45 earlier this year in full health.

Joey Votto went 6 for 30 earlier this year in full health too. Players slump. They have hot and cold streaks. I'm sure I could pull up a heavy slump from Bruce too. My point is that people are pouncing on Janish right now basically based on a period of NINE GAMES.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bill Bray in to pitch

Ben Francisco pinch hitting

[Captain Hook]

Joey Votto went 6 for 30 earlier this year in full health too. Players slump. They have hot and cold streaks. I'm sure I could pull up a heavy slump from Bruce too. My point is that people are pouncing on Janish right now basically based on a period of NINE GAMES.

I believe his OPS was approaching .700 before he went down with the injury.

[Homer Bailey]

Joey Votto went 6 for 30 earlier this year in full health too. Players slump. They have hot and cold streaks. I'm sure I could pull up a heavy slump from Bruce too. My point is that people are pouncing on Janish right now basically based on a period of NINE GAMES.

9 games???

Or a season OPS of .515!?

No that is not a typo.

[Reds Fanatic]

Francisco fouls out to the catcher.

[CTA513]

its either Janish or Renteria until the Reds do something.

[Reds Fanatic]

Nice play by Janish. 2 outs.

[Captain Hook]

its either Janish or Renteria until the Reds do something.

I know I'm defending Janish but I really do hope the Reds do something.

[_Sir_Charles_]

That is why Janish is on this team.

[CTA513]

I know I'm defending Janish but I really do hope the Reds do something.

I hope so to, but I doubt its going to be a move people are wanting.

[Reds Fanatic]

Utley grounds out to 2nd. 3-3 after 7.

[Captain Hook]

Bill Bray>Arther Rhodes

[edabbs44]

Joey Votto went 6 for 30 earlier this year in full health too. Players slump. They have hot and cold streaks. I'm sure I could pull up a heavy slump from Bruce too. My point is that people are pouncing on Janish right now basically based on a period of NINE GAMES.

Not sure that is accurate. His aggregate is awful.

[_Sir_Charles_]

9 games???

Or a season OPS of .515!?

No that is not a typo.

Yes, 9 games. That OPS was nearly 150 points higher just 9 games ago.

And don't get me wrong. Paul's a poor hitter. I've never said he wasn't. I'm just saying that he's not as bad as people are making him out to be. He'll never have a high OPS because he doesn't get many extra base hits. He'll get his fair share of gap doubles, but he won't get those dingers. My point was that if he's hitting down in the order and wasn't slumping like he has the past 9 games...nobody would be complaining like they are. His defense is more than good enough to justify his bat hitting 8th in the 2nd highest scoring team in the majors. But he's slumping and our offense is slumping...everything looks over-exaggerated.

[Reds Fanatic]

Antonio Bastardo in to pitch

[reds44]

No amount of defense can make up for a .515 OPS.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hernandez pops out to short. 1 out.

[Captain Hook]

Not sure that is accurate. His aggregate is awful.

It was awful a few weeks before he got hurt.Paul went on a nice hot streak of about a week and that's all it took to get him back to respectability.

[Reds Fanatic]

Heisey pops out to short. 2 outs.

[Homer Bailey]

Yes, 9 games. That OPS was nearly 150 points higher just 9 games ago.

And don't get me wrong. Paul's a poor hitter. I've never said he wasn't. I'm just saying that he's not as bad as people are making him out to be. He'll never have a high OPS because he doesn't get many extra base hits. He'll get his fair share of gap doubles, but he won't get those dingers. My point was that if he's hitting down in the order and wasn't slumping like he has the past 9 games...nobody would be complaining like they are. His defense is more than good enough to justify his bat hitting 8th in the 2nd highest scoring team in the majors. But he's slumping and our offense is slumping...everything looks over-exaggerated.

Are you sure about that? Not trying to call you out, but it has seemed to me that you've been arguing for over a year that Paul CAN hit.

[_Sir_Charles_]

It was awful a few weeks before he got hurt.Paul went on a nice hot streak of about a week and that's all it took to get him back to respectability.

Exactly my point. We're still talking about very small sample sizes this early in the season.

[Reds Fanatic]

Janish strikes out swinging. 3-3 mid 8th.

[reds44]

Honestly, at some point the Reds have to think about calling it a day and sending him to AAA.

He might be the worst hitter in baseball.

[Oxilon]

Nice attention span Janish.

[redsfaninbsg]

Honestly, at some point the Reds have to think about calling it a day and sending him to AAA.

He might be the worst hitter in baseball.

I disagree, 100%. If the Reds had a legit LF or a legit SS he would have great value on this team or any team.

[CTA513]

Honestly, at some point the Reds have to think about calling it a day and sending him to AAA.

He might be the worst hitter in baseball.

Then we could see Renteria starting more.

:beerme:

[edabbs44]

Nice attention span Janish.

He should have mde it to first.

[edabbs44]

I disagree, 100%. If the Reds had a legit LF or a legit SS he would have great value on this team or any team.

He is close to a sub .500 OPS. That is unheard of.

[reds44]

Then we could see Renteria starting more.

:beerme:
I'd go with Cozart. You can't keep running this out there though.

[CTA513]

He is close to a sub .500 OPS. That is unheard of.

Then cut him and start Renteria.

[redsfaninbsg]

He should have mde it to first.

Which could be big for no other reason than that the Reds need one more base runner to get Votto another AB.

[reds44]

Folks Janish is a really good defender, he is not overrated with the glove.

But no amount of defense makes up for this offense. It doesn't.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Are you sure about that? Not trying to call you out, but it has seemed to me that you've been arguing for over a year that Paul CAN hit.

He CAN hit. At a below average rate. He's always drawn his fair share of walks (something he's yet to do this season really), he's always had his fair share of doubles (something he had just started to do prior to the injury). For Paul, I look at his batting average. If he's got a decent BA, he'll justify his glove. But since this slump...his BA has taken a major hit.

[reds44]

No. He can't hit.

[WebScorpion]

No amount of defense can make up for a .515 OPS.
This sounds real cool and is true for fantasy baseball, but in real baseball having one of the best fielders in the major leagues playing Shortstop on your team is invaluable. He cuts down on pitch counts for every pitcher on the team; He instills confidence in every player on the field; and he fields more hit balls than any player out there. Even if he's below the Mendoza line, I'd keep running him out there...like they did for Mendoza. ;)

If I'm sacrificing defense to gain more offense, I'd restrict that to positions that don't field as many balls...LF, 1B, 3B, RF. It's a tried and true formula.

[reds44]

This sounds real cool and is true for fantasy baseball, but in real baseball having one of the best fielders in the major leagues playing Shortstop on your team is invaluable. He cuts down on pitch counts for every pitcher on the team; He instills confidence in every player on the field; and he fields more hit balls than any player out there. Even if he's below the Mendoza line, I'd keep running him out there...like they did for Mendoza. ;)

If I'm sacrificing defense to gain more offense, I'd restrict that to positions that don't field as many balls...LF, 1B, 3B, RF. It's a tried and true formula.
OH MY GOD! Are you kidding me?

I wish I was smart enough to put into context how bad a .515 OPS is.

[CTA513]

I'd go with Cozart. You can't keep running this out there though.

Cozart would probably be called up but I doubt he'll be starting more games then Renteria.

[Quatitos]

Just curious, when does the rule against excessive player criticism kick in? Its kind of tiring when every game thread turns into a Gomes/Janish/Volquez sucks thread.

:deadhorse:

[Oxilon]

Janish wouldn't look so bad if it weren't for the abyss in LF and Rolen about to go on Medicare.

[reds44]

Just curious, when does the rule against excessive player criticism kick in? Its kind of tiring when every game thread turns into a Gomes/Janish/Volquez sucks thread.

:deadhorse:
It's not excessive criticism because there are people defending him.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Just curious, when does the rule against excessive player criticism kick in? Its kind of tiring when every game thread turns into a Gomes/Janish/Volquez sucks thread.

:deadhorse:

Yep. It gets mighty old.

[Reds Freak]

OH MY GOD! Are you kidding me?

I wish I was smart enough to put into context how bad a .515 OPS is.

But do you think he can hit?

[reds44]

Janish wouldn't look so bad if it weren't for the abyss in LF and Rolen about to go on Medicare.
Oh yes he would. A .515 OPS looks bad anywhere you put him.

[WebScorpion]

Oh yes he would. A .515 OPS looks bad anywhere you put him.
Your opinion is noted. ;)

[Reds Fanatic]

I looked back at Janish's game logs he started the year 12 for 26 in the first 6 games. Then he followed that with a 6 for 44 streak. Then he had 4 games where he went 8 for 17. Since then May 3rd he is now 3 for 47. So in 2 short hot streaks he went 20 for 43 (.465) in 10 games. In the other 27 games he has hit 9 for 91 (.098)

[Captain Hook]

I'd go with Cozart. You can't keep running this out there though.

I don't completely disagree.I just look at as Paul has to be thought more like a pitcher.He's more responsible for preventing runs then he is creating runs.If he saves the team a run or two or helps to keep a starters pitch count down he's doing his job.

[Oxilon]

Oh yes he would. A .515 OPS looks bad anywhere you put him.

I'd gladly take a hit in the 8 hole from Janish if we had a above average bat in LF. And it's only May. I'm going to laugh when Janish goes on a tear (keeping it all relative ofcourse ;) ) and gets that OPS around .650.

[reds44]

I don't completely disagree.I just look at as Paul has to be thought more like a pitcher.He's more responsible for preventing runs then he is creating runs.If he saves the team a run or two or helps to keep a starters pitch count down he's doing his job.
He does a fantastic job of preventing the Reds from scoring runs.

[Quatitos]

It's not excessive criticism because there are people defending him.

Just because he is being defended doesn't make the criticism any less excessive or any less annoying.

[reds44]

Just because he is being defended doesn't make the criticism any less excessive or any less annoying.
It doesn't make people defending him any less annoying either.

It goes both ways.

[Reds Fanatic]

Double switch with 2 outs and a runner on 1st. Ondrusek in to pitch and Renteria in to play short.

[Homer Bailey]

He CAN hit. At a below average rate. He's always drawn his fair share of walks (something he's yet to do this season really), he's always had his fair share of doubles (something he had just started to do prior to the injury). For Paul, I look at his batting average. If he's got a decent BA, he'll justify his glove. But since this slump...his BA has taken a major hit.

It seemed as if you felt a bit more strongly 10 months ago:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84304&highlight=janish+hit

[_Sir_Charles_]

Oh yes he would. A .515 OPS looks bad anywhere you put him.

So should Carl Crawford be cut? .545 OPS.
Miguel Tejada? .533 OPS
Chone Figgins? .530 OPS

It's early and slumps exaggerate numbers.

[reds44]

LanceMcAlister

Janish had double in 6th vs Cubs on Friday May 6...since then he's 1 for last 34. Renteria is 2 for 32. Combined the SS are 3 for 66.

My God.

[reds44]

So should Carl Crawford be cut? .545 OPS.
Miguel Tejada? .533 OPS
Chone Figgins? .530 OPS

It's early and slumps exaggerate numbers.
Crawford? No.

The other two? I could see it, especially Figgins.

[Oxilon]

LanceMcAlister

Janish had double in 6th vs Cubs on Friday May 6...since then he's 1 for last 34. Renteria is 2 for 32. Combined the SS are 3 for 66.

My God.

My God. He's Jonny Gomes outside of May.

[CTA513]

LanceMcAlister

Janish had double in 6th vs Cubs on Friday May 6...since then he's 1 for last 34. Renteria is 2 for 32. Combined the SS are 3 for 66.

My God.

Janish is making Renteria play bad.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ondrusek comes in and walks Ruiz on 4 pitches. 1st and 2nd.

[redsfaninbsg]

Highway to the danger zone.

[MikeS21]

Is the game still going on or is Janish the only one playing?

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Walks will haunt

[Captain Hook]

Is the game still going on or is Janish the only one playing?

No way we'd have 3 runs if this was the case.

[Oxilon]

Is the game still going on or is Janish the only one playing?

It is but it would be mightily amusing if the Reds fielded a team of 8 Janishes :D

[Reds Fanatic]

Brown grounds into a 3-6 FC. 3-3 after 8.

[WebScorpion]

Is the game still going on or is Janish the only one playing?Janish isn't playing.:lol:

He was double-switched out when Ondrusek came in.

[Homer Bailey]

And wow, how has no one commented on how terrible that double switch was??

Let Janish hit, then take him out for defense??

[Reds Fanatic]

Renteria, Stubbs and Phillips due up in the 9th.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Crawford? No.

The other two? I could see it, especially Figgins.

Why not Crawford? Does he play a defense-first position?

[CTA513]

And wow, how has no one commented on how terrible that double switch was??

Let Janish hit, then take him out for defense??

People should be happy that Janish is out.

[Reds Fanatic]

And wow, how has no one commented on how terrible that double switch was??

Let Janish hit, then take him out for defense??

The double switch was because of the pitchers spot leading off but we will see if he leaves Ondrusek in. Dusty sometimes does these double switches but makes a pitching change anyway.

[reds44]

Why not Crawford? Does he play a defense-first position?
You're kidding right?

You're comparing Paul Janish to Carl Crawford?

[CTA513]

Renteria hammers a pop up to Mayberry for out #1.

[reds44]

Make sure our SS's get as many ABs as possible.