Reds at Philles 5-26-11

[RedsManRick]

Reds Lineup
Stubbs 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Cairo 5
Bruce 9
Heisey 7
Hanigan 2
Janish 6
Bailey RHP

Cairo at cleanup? Really Dusty? Really? Would Bruce and Votto back to back kill you (or them)? Would Heisey batting 2nd or 4th hurt anybody? Really?

[edabbs44]

Miggy 5-12 career vs Lee.

[cumberlandreds]

So this is the 2nd game of a doubleheader today? Or actually a triple header is a more appropriate term.

I think Dusty was still asleep when he made out the lineup card. Maybe Price or Speier will catch that before its taken to the umpire. If not I see a shutout looming today.

[Homer Bailey]

After last night's debacle, and waking up to that lineup, I will NOT be tuning in today. Can't take any more of this crap.

[reds1869]

Hopefully Cairo does what he always does when I question his inclusion in the lineup: go off like Ted Williams.

[OesterPoster]

Mark Sheldon just reported that Daryl Thompson was in the clubhouse.

[PuffyPig]

Lineup construction is vastly overrated.

I don't mean the players, I mean the order.

If we get shut out today with Cairo batting cleanup, we would have been shut out with him batting 7th.

Not that I would bat him there.

[klw]

Per Fay
http://twitter.com/#!/johnfayman

Rolen looks at line up card, sees he's not in it: "There is a God."

[Homer Bailey]

Lineup construction is vastly overrated.

I don't mean the players, I mean the order.

If we get shut out today with Cairo batting cleanup, we would have been shut out with him batting 7th.

Not that I would bat him there.

Really? You effectively take the bat out of our best hitter's hands by batting Cairo behind him. Votto isn't going to get ANYTHING to hit today.

[edabbs44]

Really? You effectively take the bat out of our best hitter's hands by batting Cairo behind him. Votto isn't going to get ANYTHING to hit today.

what's your suggestion with no Rolen?

[hebroncougar]

That's indefensible. Heck, if anything, put Phillips there if there is this idiotic insistence on not batting Votto and Bruce back to back.

[edabbs44]

M. Martinez ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .171
D. Brown rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .071
C. Utley 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .111
R. Howard 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .251
R. Ibanez lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .246
J. Mayberry cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .234
W. Valdez 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .248
D. Sardinha c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .211
C. Lee p

[edabbs44]

Maybe they had a handshake deal with Philly...we hit Cairo 4th, you hit a guy with a .209 OBP leadoff.

[Homer Bailey]

what's your suggestion with no Rolen?

vs. LHP, I would rather have Gomes, Phillips, Bruce, Stubbs, Hernandez (I assume is unavailable today), or maybe even Hanigan protecting Votto instead of Cairo.

[edabbs44]

I think the true event today is PJ's performance. Anything worse than 1 for 4 and his OPS will be headed into uncharted territory.

[edabbs44]

vs. LHP, I would rather have Gomes, Phillips, Bruce, Stubbs, Hernandez (I assume is unavailable today), or maybe even Hanigan protecting Votto instead of Cairo.

Hanigan? Gomes has been used by Lee in his career. Stubbs isn't moving.

I think too much has been made of hitting in front and behind certain people. Remember when Bruce sucked in April b/c no one was hitting behind him and how he desperately needed to get in front of Votto? He's now doing just fine in the same spot he was in before his quick visit towards the top of the order.

[bucksfan2]

Predicting a huge game out of Cairo today.

[cumberlandreds]

M. Martinez ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .171
D. Brown rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .071
C. Utley 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .111
R. Howard 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .251
R. Ibanez lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .246
J. Mayberry cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .234
W. Valdez 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .248
D. Sardinha c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .211
C. Lee p

With the Phils putting their JV team out there today I expect a pretty quick game.
Saying that it will probably be a 15-14 slugfest and end about 6 pm tonight.

[edabbs44]

Predicting a huge game out of Cairo today.

He had a very key AB last night.

[traderumor]

The lineup complainers can be found at your local HS football game complaining because the coach keeps on running up the middle.

[cumberlandreds]

Cairo GO to third to end the 1st. Votto with a two out single was all the Reds could muster.

[redsfaninbsg]

I really feel like the Reds lost the World Series last night, today. Hopefully, the team is in higher spirits than I am.

[Kc61]

Phillies get a lead off double.

Usual Reds game. About to fall behind in the first.

Michael Martinez with the double.

Reds' starting pitching. Sheesh.

[Kc61]

One out, man on second.

[edabbs44]

Phillies get a lead off double.

Usual Reds game. About to fall behind in the first.

Michael Martinez with the double.

Reds' starting pitching. Sheesh.

wow

[edabbs44]

Really? You effectively take the bat out of our best hitter's hands by batting Cairo behind him. Votto isn't going to get ANYTHING to hit today.

Votto 1-1 while being intentionally walked.

[redsfaninbsg]

6-3 groundout moves the runner to 3rd.

[757690]

After last night's debacle, and waking up to that lineup, I will NOT be tuning in today. Can't take any more of this crap.

No offense Homer, but if that's your attitude, the Reds don't need you as a fan. Goodbye and good riddance. Enjoy your day off.

[redsfaninbsg]

2B, 1-0 Phils. Why they don't walk him, I'll never know.

[Kc61]

Phils lead. Howard hits it off the wall.

[Plus Plus]

2B, 1-0 Phils. Why they don't walk him, I'll never know.

Because his OPS is like .835?

[redsfaninbsg]

Because his OPS is like .810?

Kind of like how the Reds offense is better yet the Phils always win?

[edabbs44]

Because his OPS is like .835?

And Ibanez has been hitting well this series.

[redsfaninbsg]

And Ibanez has been hitting well this series.

I think Howard is hitting something like .333 in this series. Howard is a former MVP in his prime while Ibanez has an OPS under .700 and is near 40 years of age. Facing Cliff Lee, it's pretty stupid to pitch to Howard with an open base and two outs.

[Razor Shines]

No offense Homer, but if that's your attitude, the Reds don't need you as a fan. Goodbye and good riddance. Enjoy your day off.
:laugh: Glad you're at the gate deciding who the Reds do and don't need as fans. :laugh:

[redsfaninbsg]

Bruce grounds out.

[Plus Plus]

The Reds do have a better offense than the Phillies. I don't think that is debatable. The Phillies are also playing better than the Reds right now. I don't think that is debatable either.

As I have posted in countless game threads, I understand how frustrating that it can be to be a Reds fan when they are playing badly. However, as frustrating as it can be, facts exist that show the Reds to not be what many seem to be describing as one of the worst teams in baseball.

[redsfaninbsg]

Bunt single for Heisey.

[redsfaninbsg]

The Reds do have a better offense than the Phillies. I don't think that is debatable. The Phillies are also playing better than the Reds right now. I don't think that is debatable either.

As I have posted in countless game threads, I understand how frustrating that it can be to be a Reds fan when they are playing badly. However, as frustrating as it can be, facts exist that show the Reds to not be what many seem to be describing as one of the worst teams in baseball.

Howard former MVP hitting well over .300 in this series and heating up
Ibanez near 40 years old with an ops under .700

Why pitch to Howard with an open base and two outs?
Stats are great things, I'm a fan of them, use them in my job daily but the Phillies are a better team than the Reds.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

The Reds do have a better offense than the Phillies. I don't think that is debatable. The Phillies are also playing better than the Reds right now. I don't think that is debatable either.

As I have posted in countless game threads, I understand how frustrating that it can be to be a Reds fan when they are playing badly. However, as frustrating as it can be, facts exist that show the Reds to not be what many seem to be describing as one of the worst teams in baseball.

Oh, I think that's highly debatable. And flat out wrong. And really, what more do we need to see out of Philly to drive the point home?

[Kc61]

Phils with one on, two out in the second.

Cairo isn't Rolen at third.

Lee fans, inning over, 1 zip.

[cumberlandreds]

Phils continue to lead 1-0 going to the third.

[Plus Plus]

Oh, I think that's highly debatable. And flat out wrong. And really, what more do we need to see out of Philly to drive the point home?

Reds WOBA- .330
Phillies WOBA- .306

Reds OPS- .741
Phillies OPS- .684

Reds RS- 250
Phillies RS- 194

Reds RC+- 103
Phillies RC+- 87

I don't see a single stat that says anything other than the Reds having an above average offense and the Phillies having a below average one.

[cumberlandreds]

Bailey bounces out back to the mound to begin the third.

[cumberlandreds]

Stubbs K's once again.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Reds WOBA- .330
Phillies WOBA- .306

Reds OPS- .741
Phillies OPS- .684

Reds RS- 250
Phillies RS- 194

Reds RC+- 103
Phillies RC+- 87

I don't see a single stat that says anything other than the Reds having an above average offense and the Phillies having a below average one.

Numbers are one thing, but the stat that I see is that the Phillies hit when it matters. The Reds, well, they don't.

[Patrick Bateman]

Oh, I think that's highly debatable. And flat out wrong. And really, what more do we need to see out of Philly to drive the point home?

How about scoring more runs??

That's usually a pretty good starting point for evaluating an offense. You know, scoring runs, which is the entire point of offense believe it or not.

[cumberlandreds]

Phillips Lines out to LF to end the inning. Phils 1-0 in the 3rd

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

How about scoring more runs??

That's usually a pretty good starting point for evaluating an offense. You know, scoring runs, which is the entire point of offense believe it or not.

How about scoring runs that matter? And winning games?

It's not like the Reds pitching is costing them all these 12-10 games. The Reds' pitching is woeful, yes. But a lot of the blame falls on this so-called great offense. Last night is a perfect example. Where are the runs that matter? They're all in the Philly dugout.

[757690]

:laugh: Glad you're at the gate deciding who the Reds do and don't need as fans. :laugh:

What gate?

He left on his own and I'm just saying I'm glad a fan with that attitude isn't ruining it for everyone else.

[cumberlandreds]

martinez GO to third. One away

[Patrick Bateman]

How about scoring runs that matter? And winning games?

It's not like the Reds pitching is costing them all these 12-10 games. Last night is a perfect example. Where are the runs that matter? They're all in the Philly dugout.

We are comparing the ability of two offenses.

"Scoring runs that matter", that's just lazy.

For one thing, the Phillies are facing Reds pitching, while the Reds face Phillies pitching.

In simply evaluating them based on this series, obviously one offense has a more difficult task.

Why bother. You clearly have an agenda.

If you don't want to even suggest there is merit to evaluating an offense based on their offensive ouput, then really, why are you even bothering to argue? You know that you have nothing factual to back up the things that you are posting. You can't just dismiss runs scored in this discussion.

[757690]

How about scoring runs that matter? And winning games?

It's not like the Reds pitching is costing them all these 12-10 games. The Reds' pitching is woeful, yes. But a lot of the blame falls on this so-called great offense. Last night is a perfect example. Where are the runs that matter? They're all in the Philly dugout.

So what you're saying is that the Reds need to trade Phillips to the Cards for Descalso. He is "Mr. Late and Close" after all. ;)

[cumberlandreds]

Brown delivers a double to RF.

[redsfaninbsg]

I wonder if the Reds learned anything from the first inning?

[cumberlandreds]

Fly out to LF by Utley.

[cumberlandreds]

I wonder if the Reds learned anything from the first inning?

Yep. Intentional walk. Dusty then asks for a mulligan for the 1st inning. But is denied by the HP umpire.

[mbgrayson]

I wonder if the Reds learned anything from the first inning?

Apparently so... Howard is walked intentionally.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

We are comparing the ability of two offenses.

"Scoring runs that matter", that's just lazy.

For one thing, the Phillies are facing Reds pitching, while the Reds face Phillies pitching.

In simply evaluating them based on this series, obviously one offense has a more difficult task.

Why bother. You clearly have an agenda.

If you don't want to even suggest there is merit to evaluating an offense based on their offensive ouput, then really, why are you even bothering to argue? You know that you have nothing factual to back up the things that you are posting. You can't just dismiss runs scored in this discussion.

I'm not talking about just this series. Obviously the Phillies pitching is good. But it doesn't exactly take Cy Young Award winners to shut these bats down.

But I guess you're right. This offense is just fine. Let's get home and pop up a few solo HR's into the first row of bleachers at GABP so we can continue to point to skewed, flawed and inflated numbers.

My only point is: It's far too easy to absolutely shut this offense completely down. (See: Wednesday night in Philly; Monday night in Philly; today in Philly; all weekend in Cleveland; five out of six games vs. Pittsburgh; plenty of other games this season).

[redsfaninbsg]

This game is over. 0-2 pitch.

[cumberlandreds]

Ibanez homers. So much for the intentional walk strategy. Most likely that's the ball game with Lee on the mound.

[cumberlandreds]

Mayberry flies to deep CF to end the third. 4-0 Phils.

[757690]

Why do the Reds even pitch to Howard? Oh yeah, that's why.

[Kc61]

Reds are perpetually behind 4-0.

[CTA513]

Got beat by an infielder pitching last night and already down 4-0 against Lee.

:KoolAid:

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Ibanez homers. So much for the intentional walk strategy. Most likely that's the ball game with Lee on the mound.

This is how little confidence the Reds' offense instills. Even with Cliff Lee on the mound, a 4-run deficit in a bandbox park in the fourth inning feels like game over.

[cumberlandreds]

Votto K's looking.

[OesterPoster]

This is how little confidence the Reds' offense instills. Even with Cliff Lee on the mound, a 4-run deficit in a bandbox park in the fourth inning feels like game over.

Aw, come on. We've got Miguel Cairo hitting cleanup.

[cumberlandreds]

This is how little confidence the Reds' offense instills. Even with Cliff Lee on the mound, a 4-run deficit in a bandbox park in the fourth inning feels like game over.

I'm saying more because of the pitcher. Pitchers like Lee,Halladay,Oswalt and Hamels normally don't blow 4 run leads.

Cairo doubles to keep RZ looking good. :)

[Kc61]

This is how little confidence the Reds' offense instills. Even with Cliff Lee on the mound, a 4-run deficit in a bandbox park in the fourth inning feels like game over.

Very few teams can win when they trail 3-0 or 4-0 game after game after game. Very few offenses can win in these situations, particularly against a Cliff Lee.

Statistically, the Reds offense is near the top of the NL.

Statistically, the Reds pitching is near the bottom.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Aw, come on. We've got Miguel Cairo hitting cleanup.

And we have Mike Leake going tomorrow in Atlanta against Tommy Hanson (who hasn't lost a game in over a month).

[OldXOhio]

God this team is snake bit right now.

[cumberlandreds]

Bruce and infield single. 1st and 3rd one out. Does Heisey have a HR in him today?

[cumberlandreds]

Bruce and infield single. 1st and 3rd one out. Does Heisey have a HR in him today?


Nope. Heisey K's.

[PuffyPig]

My only point is: It's far too easy to absolutely shut this offense completely down. (See: Wednesday night in Philly; Monday night in Philly; today in Philly; all weekend in Cleveland; five out of six games vs. Pittsburgh; plenty of other games this season).

It easy to shut down any offense in baseball.

But the fact of the matter is, the Reds offense is shut down less than any other offense in the NL.

Your point is flawed.

[cumberlandreds]

And we have Mike Leake going tomorrow in Atlanta against Tommy Hanson (who hasn't lost a game in over a month).

That makes him due for a loss then. ;)

[OldXOhio]

Nope. Heisey K's.

let me guess, on a steady diet of inside fastballs?

[cumberlandreds]

Hanigan walks. Tieing run coming to the plate. How about a grand salami here Janish?

[cumberlandreds]

let me guess, on a steady diet of inside fastballs?

Not sure about that. I'm not paying that close of attention.

[cumberlandreds]

Hey Hey! Janish singles in two runs.

[OesterPoster]

Janish!

It's the socks baby, it's the socks.

[HotCorner]

Miracles do happen.

[HotCorner]

Way to go Paul!

[CTA513]

Phillies should probably cut Cliff Lee after that.

[cumberlandreds]

Bailey GO to 1st to end the inning. 4-2 Phils in the 4th.

[oneupper]

Hey Hey! Janish singles in two runs.

The visually impaired, tree-dwelling rodent appears!

[cumberlandreds]

Valdez flies to RF. He needs to go back to pitching. He's 0-2 today.

[cumberlandreds]

Sardines pops out to 2nd.

[HokieRed]

Just checked in on Gameday. What's up with Bailey? he just threw 6 offspeed pitches to Sardinha?

[cumberlandreds]

According to Marty, Babe Ruth was the last player to start a game in the field and come on to pitch to get the win. Geeeez...

[cumberlandreds]

Lee pops out to end the 4th.

[_Sir_Charles_]

1-2-3 for Homer.

[HokieRed]

Curveball and change to Lee. Where's the fastball? Is Bailey ok?

[cumberlandreds]

70 pitches for Bailey through four.

[CTA513]

According to Marty, Babe Ruth was the last player to start a game in the field and come on to pitch to get the win. Geeeez...

The Reds should trade for him before he becomes the next Babe Ruth offensively.

[lollipopcurve]

I have no problem with Bailey working on his secondary stuff. That's how it gets better.

[HokieRed]

I have no problem with Bailey working on his secondary stuff. That's how it gets better.

That's fine as long as he's throwing the fastball. As I said, I just tuned in and wondered what was going on.

[cumberlandreds]

Stubbs pops out to RF.

[cumberlandreds]

Phillips not distracted by Rollins this time up singles.

[cumberlandreds]

Posey with a broken ankle and most likely out for the season.

I thought when the season started my fantasy team was set at catcher. I had Posey and Mauer.Now look at them.

[cumberlandreds]

6-3 DP and thats the inning.

[CTA513]

RIP Baileys arm

[Plus Plus]

Thompson in. No word as of yet as to why Bailey is out.

[cumberlandreds]

Yea you have to think something is wrong with Bailey.

[HokieRed]

Thompson in. No word as of yet as to why Bailey is out.

I suspected this when I saw that steady diet of offspeed stuff to a hitter like Sardinha. Hopefully it's not too bad.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wow this is not good. Bailey along with Cueto have been the two most effective pitchers on this staff. Him coming out suddenly after 70 pitches can't be good.

[CTA513]

Welcome back Volquez.

[Plus Plus]

Reds beat writers are saying that Bailey was sweating excessively in the bottom of the 4th and speculating that he may have been overheating.

[OesterPoster]

Philly phans aren't phunny.

[cumberlandreds]

Fly out to CF.

[Redsfan320]

Absolutely. After 70 pitches, 4 innings, and we're just down by two. Certainly something wrong. With Maloney injured too now, our pitching depth is quickly falling. If we go with Leake in what was Volquez's spot, then we've got:

1. Cueto
2. Wood
3. Leake
4. Arroyo, if he's not hurt.
5. LeCure
6. Volquez
7. ...Reineke, maybe.
8.... has Fisher ever started?

320

[LoganBuck]

Did I just see Thompson register 94 mph on the gun?

I thought that was a thing of the past?

[Reds Fanatic]

Reds beat writers are saying that Bailey was sweating excessively in the bottom of the 4th and speculating that he may have been overheating.

It is very hot and humid in Philly today with a heat index of 94 so that would be the best news if it is just the heat that got to Bailey

[medford]

Reds beat writers are saying that Bailey was sweating excessively in the bottom of the 4th and speculating that he may have been overheating.

Hopefully that's a flu related thing that he's over in 4 days, and nothing more.

[lollipopcurve]

Reds beat writers are saying that Bailey was sweating excessively in the bottom of the 4th and speculating that he may have been overheating.

This calls for a moment of silence in memory of Josh Hancock, who could sweat more than any pitcher ever.

[OesterPoster]

Or maybe he went out drinking last night after leaving the ballpark in the 11th. :)

[OesterPoster]

This calls for a moment of silence in memory of Josh Hancock, who could sweat more than any pitcher ever.

Dennys Reyes says 'hi'.

[cumberlandreds]

A walk to Brown.

[HokieRed]

Let's hope it's just the heat.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Reds beat writers are saying that Bailey was sweating excessively in the bottom of the 4th and speculating that he may have been overheating.

Hopefully that's it.

[CTA513]

Bad walk to a guy hitting .125 with Ultey and Howard coming up.

[Kc61]

A walk to Brown.

Tough call on ball four.

[HokieRed]

Gameday's got ball 1 to Utley square in the middle of the zone.

[cumberlandreds]

Someone else can do a little PBP. I'll have to be on the road in just a few minutes. Pull 'em through RZ.

[LoganBuck]

Homer Bailey left with spasm in shoulder, as a result of swinging bat during fourth. Per Thom

[Reds Fanatic]

Gameday says Bailey left with an injured shoulder

[CTA513]

According to Thom Bailey left with shoulder spasms that occurred during his 4th inning at bat.

[CTA513]

Cairo > Lee

[CTA513]

4-4 after Bruce homers

RBIs # 37 & 38

[LoganBuck]

Bruce Bomb!

[cumberlandreds]

Bruceeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

[HotCorner]

Bruce = Fire!!!!

[Reds Fanatic]

Bruce is on a tear. 14th homer of the year.

[HotCorner]

Jay is morphing into Joey. Well at least for this month.

[CTA513]

10 HR and 27 RBIs this month for Bruce

I don't know what other players have done, but I'm guessing hes in the lead for player of the month.

[NJReds]

According to Thom Bailey left with shoulder spasms that occurred during his 4th inning at bat.

Hate to hear any potential pitcher injury that begins with "shoulder." Hopefully it's just a muscle spasm.

[lollipopcurve]

According to Thom Bailey left with shoulder spasms that occurred during his 4th inning at bat.

Still very concerned. Since when do you get shoulder spasms from swinging a bat?

[_Sir_Charles_]

CRAP. I just checked in on the game and I go from "woohoo" seeing Bruce hit another dinger...to "*#&$&%*&#$*" after seeing Homer left the game with an injured shoulder. Double CRAP!

[Kc61]

Reds can't keep Thompson out there too long in a tie game.

Some bullpenners, like Masset, may have to bite the bullet and pitch again today.

If the Reds are going to try to beat the Phils today.

Phils got a leadoff walk in the sixth.

[CTA513]

Thompson trying to quickly untie this game.

[Kc61]

Thompson trying to quickly untie this game.

The only chance the Reds have today is to engage these baserunners in conversation and hope they get picked off.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Road trip from hell.











For everyone but Jay Bruce.

[CTA513]

Bases now loaded after Thompson couldn't get the great Sardinha out.

[HokieRed]

Thompson pitching into a disaster.

[Reds Fanatic]

Thompson is in a load of trouble now. To start the 6th he has given up a walk a single and another walk. Bases loaded no outs.

The last batter he was ahead 0-2 and lost to a walk.

[CTA513]

Lee > Thompson

6-4 Phillies

[Reds Fanatic]

To show how bad Thompson's control is he has thrown 41 pitches , 22 of them balls

[redsfaninbsg]

Reds have no business winning this game. For some reason Sam "I can't get warm" LeCure is still on the roster.

[Reds Fanatic]

I think Thompson will be headed back where he belongs to the minors after today's game

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Honestly, why is Daryl Thompson even on the 40-man roster?

And then to call him up?

Hilarious.

[HokieRed]

I imagine Dusty's thinking that if Leake goes tomorrow, he'll need LeCure to pitch half the ball game.

[lollipopcurve]

I like the Daryl Thompson story, but I don't think he's 40-man material.

[Reds Fanatic]

7-4 on sac fly

[CTA513]

I imagine Dusty's thinking that if Leake goes tomorrow, he'll need LeCure to pitch half the ball game.

LeCure won't be able to do anything other then eat a roster spot if he still can't get loose.

[NJReds]

So the Phillies position players can shut down the Reds hitters and a Phillies pitcher just hit a two run double.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Road trip from hell.

[Kc61]

Honestly, why is Daryl Thompson even on the 40-man roster?

And then to call them up.

Good point.

This guy is only pitching because he is on the forty. But why is he on the forty?

[Reds Fanatic]

Road trip from hell.

Unfortunately it is not over. Now they have to head to Atlanta for more pain.

[NJReds]

Unfortunately it is not over. Now they have to head to Atlanta for more pain.

The Reds need a rainout ala "Bull Durham"

[Kc61]

Reds will be out of the race by the Fourth of July. They have a tough schedule, even after this trip.

They just don't have the pitching.

[HokieRed]

Good point.

This guy is only pitching because he is on the forty. But why is he on the forty?

I don't think Walt's decision to put him on the 40 was indefensible. He is exactly the kind of player that does get picked in the Rule 5 draft. He's got a good arm, the kind you don't want to just let get away. Obviously he's got no business being back yet but just as obviously that wasn't anybody's plan either. That's got a lot more to do with the performances of people we were counting on like Volquez, Chapman, Leake.

[Reds Fanatic]

Reds will be out of the race by the Fourth of July. They have a tough schedule, even after this trip.

They just don't have the pitching.

The interleague schedule is going to be brutal with the Reds facing the AL east and the Indians again.

[redsfaninbsg]

Reds will be out of the race by the Fourth of July. They have a tough schedule, even after this trip.

They just don't have the pitching.

Sadly, I am starting to agree with you. I've been looking at the schedule and no let up is in sight.

[HokieRed]

Reds will be out of the race by the Fourth of July. They have a tough schedule, even after this trip.

They just don't have the pitching.

If Bailey's gone for an extended period of time, they're out of it now.

[OldXOhio]

Any guesses on how far Ryan Howard hits this next pitch?

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I don't think Walt's decision to put him on the 40 was indefensible. He is exactly the kind of player that does get picked in the Rule 5 draft.

I don't think it would have been much of a loss.

[HokieRed]

I don't think it would have been much of a loss.

You guys can be awfully tough, I'll have to say. The kid came from AA; he pitched one scoreless and that would have been, under ordinary circumstances, all he'd be asked to do. He's facing probably the best team in the NL. Just because things are going bad for this team right now--and that's not at all Daryl Thompson's fault--doesn't mean the kid doesn't have a major league arm. And it's not good GMing to let those get away without compensation.

[OldXOhio]

Did Thompson really just bat?

[BuckeyeRedleg]

You guys can be awfully tough, I'll have to say. The kid came from AA; he pitched one scoreless and that would have been, under ordinary circumstances, all he'd be asked to do. He's facing probably the best team in the NL. Just because things are going bad for this team right now--and that's not at all Daryl Thompson's fault--doesn't mean the kid doesn't have a major league arm. And it's not good GMing to let those get away without compensation.

The fact that he is/was in AA for the last two years tells me all I need to know.

It's been three years since he was relevant as a prospect.

[PuffyPig]

The fact that he is/was in AA for the last two years tells me all I need to know.



It would appear that Reds management has a different opinion.

[NJReds]

Did Thompson really just bat?

He's taking one for the team. Bailey only going 4 innings after last night's 19 inning affair doesn't leave Dusty with many options.

We needed Bailey to do what Lee's doing for the Phillies.

[Homer Bailey]

No offense Homer, but if that's your attitude, the Reds don't need you as a fan. Goodbye and good riddance. Enjoy your day off.

Forgive me for not wanting to tune in during work today after watching 19 innings of some of the most frustrating baseball you can watch last night, up until 1 am, losing 7 of 8, facing one of the best pitchers in baseball, with Miguel Cairo batting 4th. I'm generally one of the most positive people in these game threads, but please, continue to preach to me from your high horse.


How about scoring runs that matter? And winning games?

It's not like the Reds pitching is costing them all these 12-10 games. The Reds' pitching is woeful, yes. But a lot of the blame falls on this so-called great offense. Last night is a perfect example. Where are the runs that matter? They're all in the Philly dugout.

This one should be chronicled in RedsZone history right here.

[edabbs44]

C(liff) Lee > C(arlos) Lee

[edabbs44]

Forgive me for not wanting to tune in during work today after watching 19 innings of some of the most frustrating baseball you can watch last night, up until 1 am, losing 7 of 8, facing one of the best pitchers in baseball, with Miguel Cairo batting 4th. I'm generally one of the most positive people in these game threads, but please, continue to preach to me from your high horse.

Have you seen what Mig Pimpin is doing today?

[BuckeyeRedleg]

It would appear that Reds management has a different opinion.

Ya think?

[Homer Bailey]

Have you seen what Mig Pimpin is doing today?

Yes. I'm happy for him. I like Miguel Cairo and the way he plays his role. In no way shape or form is it ever acceptable for him to bat 4th in a major league lineup, much less the best offense in the NL.

Edit: and nothing that would have happened today could change that opinion.

[757690]

Forgive me for not wanting to tune in during work today after watching 19 innings of some of the most frustrating baseball you can watch last night, up until 1 am, losing 7 of 8, facing one of the best pitchers in baseball, with Miguel Cairo batting 4th. I'm generally one of the most positive people in these game threads, but please, continue to preach to me from your high horse.



This one should be chronicled in RedsZone history right here.

I like you Homer, which is whyI said no offense. I just think your remark was a knee jerk reaction. After suffering through the same thing, I didn't want to suffer through more Reds bashing with this game.

Glad to have you back :)

[Cedric]

Hypothetical thoughts... How long before Walt gets some serious pressure from fans for his debacle of an off season?

[reds44]

This is what happens to team who hold onto their prospects too long, they become stale. The Reds needed to make a move that made them big time, Walt never did it.

[757690]

Hypothetical thoughts... How long before Walt gets some serious pressure from fans for his debacle of an off season?

Yeah, he should have traded for more depth in the starting pitching. That clearly was the glaring hole this off-season. ;)

[reds44]

Btw it was nice of both Walt and Dusty to punt this game today with Dary Thompson.

[REDREAD]

Btw it was nice of both Walt and Dusty to punt this game today with Dary Thompson.

Who would you have called up?

[Cedric]

Yeah, he should have traded for more depth in the starting pitching. That clearly was the glaring hole this off-season. ;)

Actually starting pitching was the biggest problem on this team. I don't see how that is debatable.

[Homer Bailey]

Hypothetical thoughts... How long before Walt gets some serious pressure from fans for his debacle of an off season?

I think your point is well documented, as it has been in a lot of the recent game threads and losing streaks. You have your opinion.

Given the same responses you've been getting for weeks now, I'll say that several of us believe that Walt did his best given the financial restrictions he has, as well as the talent available. Unless you have some insight as to what he did or did not attempt to do this offseason, continuing to make these remarks about the Reds offseason without any true context as to what you're suggesting, adds nothing to the discussion.

Ideally, LF, SS, and a #1 would have been addressed. In reality, to properly plug those holes would probably take $30M+ (in 2011 alone) on the free agent market, or gutting the farm system.

In a fantasy world, a lot of holes were not addressed. Unfortunately, baseball is played in reality, and simply saying "we should plug the holes" isn't realistic.

[reds44]

Who would you have called up?
Boxberger.

Throwing Daryl Thompson after Bailey was punting the game. It showed the Reds were more worried about saving their pen than winning today.

[NJReds]

Btw it was nice of both Walt and Dusty to punt this game today with Dary Thompson.

This game was punted when Bailey left with an injury in the 4th.

[Cedric]

I think your point is well documented, as it has been in a lot of the recent game threads and losing streaks. You have your opinion.

Given the same responses you've been getting for weeks now, I'll say that several of us believe that Walt did his best given the financial restrictions he has, as well as the talent available. Unless you have some insight as to what he did or did not attempt to do this offseason, continuing to make these remarks about the Reds offseason without any true context as to what you're suggesting, adds nothing to the discussion.

Ideally, LF, SS, and a #1 would have been addressed. In reality, to properly plug those holes would probably take $30M+ (in 2011 alone) on the free agent market, or gutting the farm system.

In a fantasy world, a lot of holes were not addressed. Unfortunately, baseball is played in reality, and simply saying "we should plug the holes" isn't realistic.



The great "if you aren't in Walt's office you can't debate the offseason" argument.

Good one.

[_Sir_Charles_]

LOL. Ummmm....Did Dusty just swap IN Gomes as a defensive replacement for Heisey?

[757690]

Boxberger.

Throwing Daryl Thompson after Bailey was punting the game. It showed the Reds were more worried about saving their pen than winning today.

He should have pitched Harang. ;)

[reds44]

This game was punted when Bailey left with an injury in the 4th.

Except the Reds came back to tie it at 4.

[757690]

Walt doesn't like to make trades in the offseason. He makes them at the deadline, when you know what you need, and whose healthy and good.

He did make a solid offer for Cliff Lee last deadline.

[edabbs44]

The great "if you aren't in Walt's office you can't debate the offseason" argument.

Good one.

How about the "They are building a long term competitive franchise and not going all in for one season" argument?

[CarolinaRedleg]

http://rlv.zcache.com/imitation_not_for_bowling_shoes-p16712265739132625528m8g_400.jpg
Since the sweep of the Cubs (and other than Bruce's torrid bat), things have been:

Bowling Shoe Ugly

[Cedric]

Walt doesn't like to make trades in the offseason. He makes them at the deadline, when you know what you need, and whose healthy and good.

He did make a solid offer for Cliff Lee last deadline.

Are you sure he did or was that just fanspeak?

I mean we aren't inside of Walt's head. We shouldn't debate things without knowing exactly 100% what he is thinking. Right Homer?

[Reds Fanatic]

This is now the 3rd time time in the last 5 games the pitching staff has given up double digit runs in a game.

[NJReds]

Except the Reds came back to tie it at 4.

Bailey needed to go 7 or 8 today for the Reds to have a chance. The bullpen was used up last night.

I wouldn't expect Boxberger to come up from AA and pitch 4 scoreless against the Phillies, any more than I expected Thompson to do it.

[_Sir_Charles_]

http://rlv.zcache.com/imitation_not_for_bowling_shoes-p16712265739132625528m8g_400.jpg
Since the sweep of the Cubs (and Bruce's torrid bat), things have been:

Bowling Shoe Ugly

While this is true, I think people are overlooking the fact that this is our TOUGHEST road trip of the season and we're on it while dealing with injuries and several players all slumping at the same time.

[REDREAD]

Ideally, LF, SS, and a #1 would have been addressed. In reality, to properly plug those holes would probably take $30M+ (in 2011 alone) on the free agent market, or gutting the farm system.

In a fantasy world, a lot of holes were not addressed. Unfortunately, baseball is played in reality, and simply saying "we should plug the holes" isn't realistic.

Yes, and what did the Reds have for trade bait for that SS or LF?
The obvious trade bait was Leake, Wood, or Homer. I guess some people on here were calling for Cueto to be traded too. Also, calls for Arroyo not to be resigned because of $$ and pitching depth.

We would seriously be in a world of hurt if we had traded some of our surplus pitching (other than Volquez) for a LF or SS.

Getting DeJesus or Willingham would not have worked out well either.

We are going through a rough patch, no doubt, but we do not suck this badly.
Everything is going wrong now. Things will be better. Maybe we don't win the division or make the playoffs, but the Reds will be entertaining to watch again, probably next week.. Not the end of the world.

[REDREAD]

This is what happens to team who hold onto their prospects too long, they become stale. The Reds needed to make a move that made them big time, Walt never did it.

Thompson was already stale when the Reds got him. He had injury history and was basically a lottery ticket.
IMO, he was never worth much on the trade market.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Reds just finished a string of games where they went 11-2 Against the Astros, Cubs & Cards. They were dealing with injuries and slumps during this time too...but they were facing lesser competition than what we're seeing on this road trip. We're now looking to go 1-8 after that 11-2 string. But we were facing the best team in baseball in the Indians on the road, then the best team in the NL on the road. I'm not very surprised to see us at 1-8 on this string. A couple of breaks go our way and we're closer to .500 on this trip. It's not the end of the world...we just need to get healthy and on track.

[reds44]

Bailey needed to go 7 or 8 today for the Reds to have a chance. The bullpen was used up last night.

I wouldn't expect Boxberger to come up from AA and pitch 4 scoreless against the Phillies, any more than I expected Thompson to do it.

Since when is it impossible for pitchers to go on back to back days?

Arredondo and Bray both pitched an inning or less last night, and Lecure didn't pitch at all (and he's a starter).

The reds could have easily thrown Lecure in the 5th and 6th, Bray in the 7th, Arredondo in the 8th. Call up Boxberger and there is another guy who can give you an inning or two.

Even Masset and Ondrusek only threw 22 pitches each.

There were plenty of other optons than punting and throwing Thompson for the rest of the game.

[reds44]

Reds just finished a string of games where they went 11-2 Against the Astros, Cubs & Cards. They were dealing with injuries and slumps during this time too...but they were facing lesser competition than what we're seeing on this road trip. We're now looking to go 1-8 after that 11-2 string. But we were facing the best team in baseball in the Indians on the road, then the best team in the NL on the road. I'm not very surprised to see us at 1-8 on this string. A couple of breaks go our way and we're closer to .500 on this trip. It's not the end of the world...we just need to get healthy and on track.
They shouldn't be 1-8. Especially with 2 against the Pirates. At worst, they should have split with the Pirates, lost 2 of 3 in Cleveland (game 1 we just blew) and split with Philly (should have won last night).


4-5? Okay. 1-8? No.

[MasonBuzz3]

Reds just finished a string of games where they went 11-2 Against the Astros, Cubs & Cards. They were dealing with injuries and slumps during this time too...but they were facing lesser competition than what we're seeing on this road trip. We're now looking to go 1-8 after that 11-2 string. But we were facing the best team in baseball in the Indians on the road, then the best team in the NL on the road. I'm not very surprised to see us at 1-8 on this string. A couple of breaks go our way and we're closer to .500 on this trip. It's not the end of the world...we just need to get healthy and on track.

get out of here with that non-negative attitude

[OldXOhio]

Just get me to the AS break at .500 or better.

[CTA513]

Why do I have to keep seeing Paris Hilton on gameday during a break in game play?

:runaway:

[PuffyPig]

The reds could have easily thrown Lecure in the 5th and 6th,


It's been stated a number of times that Lecure couldn't go today or yesterday.

So I don't know how easy it would have been.

[edabbs44]

Since when is it impossible for pitchers to go on back to back days?

Arredondo and Bray both pitched an inning or less last night, and Lecure didn't pitch at all (and he's a starter).

The reds could have easily thrown Lecure in the 5th and 6th, Bray in the 7th, Arredondo in the 8th. Call up Boxberger and there is another guy who can give you an inning or two.

Even Masset and Ondrusek only threw 22 pitches each.

There were plenty of other optons than punting and throwing Thompson for the rest of the game.

You would have also went into Atlanta with a fully taxed bullpen.

As you keep ignoring. Lecure can't pitch.
Bray would have been three days in a row.
Arredondo would have been 3 out of 4 days and 4 out of 6, after coming back from injury.
Ondrusek has already thrown 3 days in a row.
Masset is rested but he is a later guy.

[_Sir_Charles_]

You would have also went into Atlanta with a fully taxed bullpen.

As you keep ignoring. Lecure can't pitch.
Bray would have been three days in a row.
Arredondo would have been 3 out of 4 days and 4 out of 6, after coming back from injury.
Ondrusek has already thrown 3 days in a row.
Masset is rested but he is a later guy.

Yep. I'd rather punt one game than a whole series. Several days in a row of the pen getting overworked...in the middle of a long stretch of games without an off day....toughest road trip of the season...yep, one game that was already lost basically and now the pen's fine for the Braves series. In my book, Dusty handled today's game correctly given the circumstances.

[reds44]

LeCure couldn't pitch again today?

Why isn't he on the DL then?

[traderumor]

LeCure couldn't pitch again today?

Why isn't he on the DL then?Maybe he's day to day and they don't want to lose him for two weeks. Who's after Daryl Thompson? More Jordan Smith? No thanks.

[CTA513]

LeCure couldn't pitch again today?

Why isn't he on the DL then?

Reds.com says forearm tightness which I'm guessing eventually leads to the DL.

[Tony Cloninger]

http://rlv.zcache.com/imitation_not_for_bowling_shoes-p16712265739132625528m8g_400.jpg
Since the sweep of the Cubs (and other than Bruce's torrid bat), things have been:

Bowling Shoe Ugly


Man that is actually pretty sweet.