The Reds season is over!!!

[fewfirstchoice]

Let's face it guys. The Reds season is over. The players are playing like they know it and this front office isn't going to make a move to improve this club. They have proved this the last 2 years. Hope I'm wrong but I'm not. They will finish at least 10 games out of first and under .500 watch and see. I'd love to have to eat crow but it won't happen this year.

[KYRedLeg]

Tell me, Mr. Future Man, what are the lottery numbers for tonight? I could use some extra cash.

[brm7675]

I think we are looking at an overall .500 team, I don't think we will finish way under or over that. I think we are looking at 80-85 total wins this season. I think there are a number of reasons why for the dropoff which can be claimed by both the players and mag't. I think overall mag't made some critically bad decisions in the offseason during ST and now over the first few months. I also think the other teams in the central have or are playing much better ball then they did last season.

Am I concerned? Kinda of, I think some key issues need to be addressed by mag't over the coming months. I think some very HARD decisions must be made and I am not sure if Walt or Dusty can or are willing to make them. So it goes back to the post I made a few days back, the direction of this franchise lays in the hands of 1 man, and if Bob isn't willing or can't make those choices then I don't see any real change happening.

[fewfirstchoice]

7 19 27 34 49 - 17. Go get your ticket now.

[mu4103]

I think we are looking at an overall .500 team, I don't think we will finish way under or over that. I think we are looking at 80-85 total wins this season. I think there are a number of reasons why for the dropoff which can be claimed by both the players and mag't. I think overall mag't made some critically bad decisions in the offseason during ST and now over the first few months. I also think the other teams in the central have or are playing much better ball then they did last season.

Am I concerned? Kinda of, I think some key issues need to be addressed by mag't over the coming months. I think some very HARD decisions must be made and I am not sure if Walt or Dusty can or are willing to make them. So it goes back to the post I made a few days back, the direction of this franchise lays in the hands of 1 man, and if Bob isn't willing or can't make those choices then I don't see any real change happening.

I want to bring up my post from the season predictions thread. I think it is similar to what you are saying. I will continue to bring it up until the Reds prove me wrong (I did have to fix my numbers because it added up to 160 games - I predicted 79-81). The only thing I see that I have missed is that I predicted Stubbs would struggle. I do agree that the management needs to do something, but because of last year's success I don't think they feel backed in a corner yet enough to make changes.

My Preseason Prediction:
80-82:
Sorry I think the Reds over-performed last year.

1. I don't think the pitching will hold up.
2. Bruce is being talked about as an MVP candidate. Remember around the All-Star break and for about a month later, some people were calling for him to be benched or sent down. I think he will have a good year, but I don't think he has a proven track record yet.
3. Joey Votto had a career year. He is a legit superstar, but it is not a given he can do that 2 years in a row.
4. The rest of the IF doesn't impress me as standout (I know most would disagree on Phillips).
5. Sorry, I can't see the team winning as long as Johnny Gomes is in LF.
6. Drew Stubbs still has a .330 OBP and hasn't shown much more in the spring.

Expect the Reds to start out slow. I think there will be (and their best hope is) some serious changes around May. I think Bruce will be good in the OF, but Stubbs and Gomes will struggle. Votto should still be solid.

Somebody in the pitching staff really needs to step up and be the ace and a second pitcher is going to need to be right behind him. The bullpen hopefully will be improved, and Chapman could be a major player if the Reds are to repeat or improve. You can't win a Championship without at least 2 standout top-notch pitchers.

I think the team as it is right now is a 80-82 team. If they make some good moves and a couple of guys step up, I could see them in the NLCS and after that, anything is possible. The nice thing for the Reds is they do have some good young talent.

[AintlifeGrande]

7 19 27 34 49 - 17. Go get your ticket now.

:D

[AintlifeGrande]

You dont go into the season on hope.Hope for a new SS to panout,hope ageing veterans will repeat their success from last year.Hope young starting rotation will succeed.The lack of aquiring a big stick in the middle of the order to protect Votto would come back to haunt us,question marks in the left side of the infield,with an injury prone aging 3rd baseman,an unproven SS as far as offense goes.
If Walt and company stand still and refuse to wheel and deal,muchless give deserving young talent a chance to show what they can do,then it will be a long hot summer.

[brm7675]

You dont go into the season on hope.Hope for a new SS to panout,hope ageing veterans will repeat their success from last year.Hope young starting rotation will succeed.The lack of aquiring a big stick in the middle of the order to protect Votto would come back to haunt us,question marks in the left side of the infield,with an injury prone aging 3rd baseman,an unproven SS as far as offense goes.
If Walt and company stand still and refuse to wheel and deal,muchless give deserving young talent a chance to show what they can do,then it will be a long hot summer.

I would be shocked to see Walt make any major moves this season, i really believe both he and Dusty feel this team doesn't need change.

[texasdave]

The Reds' season is over? Did they make the playoffs?

[Vottomatic]

7 19 27 34 49 - 17. Go get your ticket now.

I used those numbers and they just did the drawing.

I WON!!!!!! :p

[Vottomatic]

You dont go into the season on hope.Hope for a new SS to panout,hope ageing veterans will repeat their success from last year.Hope young starting rotation will succeed.The lack of aquiring a big stick in the middle of the order to protect Votto would come back to haunt us,question marks in the left side of the infield,with an injury prone aging 3rd baseman,an unproven SS as far as offense goes.
If Walt and company stand still and refuse to wheel and deal,muchless give deserving young talent a chance to show what they can do,then it will be a long hot summer.

By no means do I think the season is over. I believe the Reds are playing the harder part of their schedule now. BUT.......

I agree with alot of what you say. I posted over the Winter offseason the glaring needs this team has, and I was disappointed they did nothing to fill them.

1. #1 Ace Starting pitcher - 2010 playoffs and slaughter by the Phillies showed that glaring weakness. If this team did make the playoffs, they stand no chance without a legit #1.
2. Legit 4-hole hitter, preferably righthanded and an outfielder/left fielder who can protect Joey Votto like Matt Holliday protects Pujols, meaning helps get him pitches to hit. I think Bruce's hitting surge has helped, but how much would a Matt Kemp-type hitter do batting 4th between Votto and Bruce? Murderer's Row.
3. Tablesetter/legit leadoff hitter who doesn't K alot, and has a high OBP. Need a guy like this for the Votto's, Kemp's?, Bruce's to knock in.
4. I was guilty of believing Janish could do no worse than OCab offensively and was definitely a defensive upgrade (which he is). I was wrong about his offense. SS probably needs upgraded or they need to take a look at Cozart.
5. Rolen should be batting 6th or 7th. My biggest problem with Scottie is how much he is being paid and what we could do with that money because I believe someone in triple A could duplicate him offensively if given a try, at a much cheaper cost.

Despite imploding the other night against the Dodgers, I think our bullpen is mostly in good shape.
I think defensively this team is topnotch.
I love our catching tandem. Love them.

But the above issues were pretty much there in the offseason and BC and WJ are more into bandaids than they are actually fixing the problem.

[Reds]

26 of the next 31 are against winning teams. Hang around until after the break and anything can happen. We just won a series, that's the standard, and it needs to continue on the road.

[texasdave]

Nothing like winning two out of three from the Cubs at home to get you ready to run that gauntlet. Reds' fans just might be looking forward to 2012 by the All-Star Break. Or the Reds could pull themselves back in it. It will be a little tougher than in 2010 because they will be battling both the Cardinals and the Brewers. Cross your fingers.

[brm7675]

1. #1 Ace Starting pitcher - 2010 playoffs and slaughter by the Phillies showed that glaring weakness. If this team did make the playoffs, they stand no chance without a legit #1.

Huh? How exactly did the Phils 'slaughter" our pitchers? I mean in game 1 wasnt it like 4 runs and in game 3 like 2? they scored some in game two but that was really more due to errors then bad pitching. Sorry but an ACE in that series for the Reds would not have changed the result, we held their mighty offense in check, we just couldn't get hits and score runs.


2. Legit 4-hole hitter, preferably righthanded and an outfielder/left fielder who can protect Joey Votto like Matt Holliday protects Pujols, meaning helps get him pitches to hit. I think Bruce's hitting surge has helped, but how much would a Matt Kemp-type hitter do batting 4th between Votto and Bruce? Murderer's Row.

Again we have a 4 hole hitter, his name is Jay Bruce, our issue is with our 5 hole hitter is hitting leadoff and our 6 adn 8 guys are doing zippo. We are fine at 4.

3. Tablesetter/legit leadoff hitter who doesn't K alot, and has a high OBP. Need a guy like this for the Votto's, Kemp's?, Bruce's to knock in.

I would agree with this

5. Rolen should be batting 6th or 7th. My biggest problem with Scottie is how much he is being paid and what we could do with that money because I believe someone in triple A could duplicate him offensively if given a try, at a much cheaper cost.

Scotty is here becasue the owner wanted him here and I really don't think his contract hurts us from getting other players. His play hurts us, his inability to stay healthy and his advancing age hurts us.


Despite imploding the other night against the Dodgers, I think our bullpen is mostly in good shape.
I think defensively this team is topnotch.
I love our catching tandem. Love them.

But the above issues were pretty much there in the offseason and BC and WJ are more into bandaids than they are actually fixing the problem.

[Reds]

I'm not going to worry until we dip under .500, I don't think anyone else in the division is going to win more than 92 games. If we lay an egg out west it would be a major blow, inter-league isn't usually a friend of Cincinnati.

[Vottomatic]

1. #1 Ace Starting pitcher - 2010 playoffs and slaughter by the Phillies showed that glaring weakness. If this team did make the playoffs, they stand no chance without a legit #1.

Huh? How exactly did the Phils 'slaughter" our pitchers? I mean in game 1 wasnt it like 4 runs and in game 3 like 2? they scored some in game two but that was really more due to errors then bad pitching. Sorry but an ACE in that series for the Reds would not have changed the result, we held their mighty offense in check, we just couldn't get hits and score runs.


I will give you that they didn't blow us out, but I was embarrassed and never really felt like we were in most of the games. And if you think our pitchers can match up with Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, and Hamels, you need to go to rehab.

2. Legit 4-hole hitter, preferably righthanded and an outfielder/left fielder who can protect Joey Votto like Matt Holliday protects Pujols, meaning helps get him pitches to hit. I think Bruce's hitting surge has helped, but how much would a Matt Kemp-type hitter do batting 4th between Votto and Bruce? Murderer's Row.

Again we have a 4 hole hitter, his name is Jay Bruce, our issue is with our 5 hole hitter is hitting leadoff and our 6 adn 8 guys are doing zippo. We are fine at 4.

I'd still rather have a run producing righthander and a new LFer. We need more than just Votto and Bruce in the middle of the lineup.

3. Tablesetter/legit leadoff hitter who doesn't K alot, and has a high OBP. Need a guy like this for the Votto's, Kemp's?, Bruce's to knock in.

I would agree with this

You should. ;) Seriously, Stubbs should be batting 6th, and Rolen batting 7th.

5. Rolen should be batting 6th or 7th. My biggest problem with Scottie is how much he is being paid and what we could do with that money because I believe someone in triple A could duplicate him offensively if given a try, at a much cheaper cost.

Scotty is here becasue the owner wanted him here and I really don't think his contract hurts us from getting other players. His play hurts us, his inability to stay healthy and his advancing age hurts us.

If he can't stay healthy and his age is limiting him from producing like his younger self, then that pretty much backs up my statement about him being OVERPAID. :eek:

Despite imploding the other night against the Dodgers, I think our bullpen is mostly in good shape.
I think defensively this team is topnotch.
I love our catching tandem. Love them.

But the above issues were pretty much there in the offseason and BC and WJ are more into bandaids than they are actually fixing the problem.

[texasdave]

After interleague play the Reds close with 7 on the road at St. Louis and Milwaukee before the break. That might be the make or break trip.

Thursday - Cueto against Bumgarner. Cueto has pitched very well. After a rough start Bumgarner has 8 consecutive quality starts.
Friday - Wood against Vogelsong. Wood has been up and down. Vogelsong strictly up. 8 starts 1.68 ERA.
Saturday - Leake against Lincecum. Leake has been solid. Lincecum is an ace.
Sunday - Volquez against Sanchez. EV needs to double down on his first start back. Sanchez is a tough lefty.
A split in Frisco would be huge. Anyone see the Reds taking 3 out of 4 there?

Against the Dodgers the Reds get Kershaw, Billingsley and TBD. They are going to face a ton of good pitching out West.

[Reds]

A split in Frisco would be huge. Anyone see the Reds taking 3 out of 4 there?

3 of 4? No.

Sweep! :rockband::pimp::party:

Almost forgot. :usa:

[Vottomatic]

After interleague play the Reds close with 7 on the road at St. Louis and Milwaukee before the break. That might be the make or break trip.

Thursday - Cueto against Bumgarner. Cueto has pitched very well. After a rough start Bumgarner has 8 consecutive quality starts.
Friday - Wood against Vogelsong. Wood has been up and down. Vogelsong strictly up. 8 starts 1.68 ERA.
Saturday - Leake against Lincecum. Leake has been solid. Lincecum is an ace.
Sunday - Volquez against Sanchez. EV needs to double down on his first start back. Sanchez is a tough lefty.
A split in Frisco would be huge. Anyone see the Reds taking 3 out of 4 there?

Against the Dodgers the Reds get Kershaw, Billingsley and TBD. They are going to face a ton of good pitching out West.

Geez, you just sent me into a depression. The Reds might actually be out of it if they don't rise to the occasion. Yikes. Some tough pitching there.

[texasdave]

3 of 4? No.

Sweep! :rockband::pimp::party:

Almost forgot. :usa:

Happy hour must be still going on in NC. :beerme:

[brm7675]

Our pitching staff just has to do what it can do and that is keep the opposing team to around 3-4 runs per game and I will take my chances. For the most part we have played philly very well, in fact I believe we have had the most hits against Mr. Halliday as any team has had this season. Their other 3 while good are not unbeatable and 2 of them are getting up there in age. So again I will take the present pitching I have and go at the phils any day.

Rolen may be over paid, but his contract is not "stopping" the Reds from obtaining other players. To me the only time an overpaid player hurts the team is when it limits the GM from making moves, Rolen's contract doesn't do that.

A Ryan Ludwich from SD would make a nice 5 hole hitter, that would give us some pop behind Bruce, but Walt won't make the move.

[brm7675]

After interleague play the Reds close with 7 on the road at St. Louis and Milwaukee before the break. That might be the make or break trip.

Thursday - Cueto against Bumgarner. Cueto has pitched very well. After a rough start Bumgarner has 8 consecutive quality starts.
Friday - Wood against Vogelsong. Wood has been up and down. Vogelsong strictly up. 8 starts 1.68 ERA.
Saturday - Leake against Lincecum. Leake has been solid. Lincecum is an ace.
Sunday - Volquez against Sanchez. EV needs to double down on his first start back. Sanchez is a tough lefty.
A split in Frisco would be huge. Anyone see the Reds taking 3 out of 4 there?

Against the Dodgers the Reds get Kershaw, Billingsley and TBD. They are going to face a ton of good pitching out West.


To me it all comes down to WHOM Dusty plays and where he plays them in the order. right now I am seeing a 2-5 road trip, maybe 3-4 if we get lucky...

[50YrRedsFan]

We would be very fortunate if we could split in SF, but as has been shown many times before, the Reds do not do well on the west coast, and they also do no do well against front line pitching, which the Giants are loaded with. I'd be surprised if we win more than one.

[50YrRedsFan]

Our season will be defined by the next three weeks. SF, LA out west, then home to TOR and NYY. A mediocre or poor three weeks and we are out of it. We will HAVE to play above .500 to keep STL and MIL from pulling away.

[jwmann2]

4. I was guilty of believing Janish could do no worse than OCab offensively and was definitely a defensive upgrade (which he is). I was wrong about his offense. SS probably needs upgraded or they need to take a look at Cozart.

How many short stops do you know that give you a ton of offense? Jeter in his prime. Hanley Ramirez. Jimmy Rollins and maybe Pedroia. Other than that, you've got the Hispanic traveling shortstop just like Renteria; Orlando Cabrera, Julio Lugo, Felipe Lopez.
The only objection I had was not re-signing Laynce Nix who I think is a much better ball player than Fred Lewis.

[UPRedsFan]

It's all about the pitching. I have a feeling the pitching will make a comeback and we'll see a strong second half.

Volquez will find it (looks like he already has)

Bailey will get healthy and come August/September he'll be strong

Chapman will find it again

Cueto will stay strong all year because he missed the first month

Arroyo will have a better second half

They just need to stay within striking distance until the all star break and I think this team will take off.

[AintlifeGrande]

Nothing like winning two out of three from the Cubs at home to get you ready to run that gauntlet. Reds' fans just might be looking forward to 2012 by the All-Star Break. Or the Reds could pull themselves back in it. It will be a little tougher than in 2010 because they will be battling both the Cardinals and the Brewers. Cross your fingers.

I about spit out my milk reading that first sentence.:)

[AintlifeGrande]

:D


I about spit out my milk reading that first sentence.:) Learning to post on a smarphone.Sorry for this post.

[Señor Rojo]

It's all about the pitching. I have a feeling the pitching will make a comeback and we'll see a strong second half.

Volquez will find it (looks like he already has)

Bailey will get healthy and come August/September he'll be strong

Chapman will find it again

Cueto will stay strong all year because he missed the first month

Arroyo will have a better second half

They just need to stay within striking distance until the all star break and I think this team will take off.

That's a lot of things that have to go right. If 3 of the starters get it together, the Reds will be fortunate.

[lonewolf371]

4. I was guilty of believing Janish could do no worse than OCab offensively and was definitely a defensive upgrade (which he is). I was wrong about his offense. SS probably needs upgraded or they need to take a look at Cozart.

How many short stops do you know that give you a ton of offense? Jeter in his prime. Hanley Ramirez. Jimmy Rollins and maybe Pedroia. Other than that, you've got the Hispanic traveling shortstop just like Renteria; Orlando Cabrera, Julio Lugo, Felipe Lopez.
The only objection I had was not re-signing Laynce Nix who I think is a much better ball player than Fred Lewis.
Troy Tulowitzki, Jose Reyes, Alexei Ramirez, Starlin Castro...

[bounty37h]

Let's face it guys. The Reds season is over. The players are playing like they know it and this front office isn't going to make a move to improve this club. They have proved this the last 2 years. Hope I'm wrong but I'm not. They will finish at least 10 games out of first and under .500 watch and see. I'd love to have to eat crow but it won't happen this year.

Will everyone that thinks the season is over please back it up and leave here for the rest of the season too??? Dont you have something better to do then waste time on baseball and a team thats done-mow, spend time with family, etc and leave the joy of the game to the rest of us fans that want to actually enjoy the team and season. I love this board, but honestly wish I had never found it sometimes.

[mlh1981]

Thankfully we are in the division we are in, as I don't see anyone running away with this thing.

Concerns of mine heading into this season were that A). We had remarkable durability last year, and B). lots of youthful players coming onto their own. I knew those wouldn't last, as guys get hurt, and young players get exposed after teams have a whole offseason to break down film.

Also, among other thing, I think the Reds miss the presence of an Arthur Rhodes.

[bounty37h]

Happy hour must be still going on in NC. :beerme:

Its always happy hour in NC :)

[signalhome]

Troy Tulowitzki, Jose Reyes, Alexei Ramirez, Starlin Castro...

Don't forget Asdrubal Cabrera.

[tobttr]

Best I can tell, the Reds won their division last year because of some combination of the things listed below...
1) They are a really, really good team
2) The central division in 2010 was really, really weak
3) The Reds were really, really lucky

As of this exact moment in time, I am willing to say that I can rule out choice #1.
But let's not forget how much better this team is now than it was at any time in the previous decade. A lot of years by early June we were looking forward to the NFL season and trying to figure out a way that the Reds would win 75 games. At least now, without ingesting anything illegal, we can consider the possibility of this team having a respectable season, rather than being the bad joke it was for many seasons.

[Vottomatic]

Best I can tell, the Reds won their division last year because of some combination of the things listed below...
1) They are a really, really good team
2) The central division in 2010 was really, really weak
3) The Reds were really, really lucky

As of this exact moment in time, I am willing to say that I can rule out choice #1.
But let's not forget how much better this team is now than it was at any time in the previous decade. A lot of years by early June we were looking forward to the NFL season and trying to figure out a way that the Reds would win 75 games. At least now, without ingesting anything illegal, we can consider the possibility of this team having a respectable season, rather than being the bad joke it was for many seasons.

Without looking it up, I'd bet Arroyo had his best season as a Red. He had very few games where he got blown up.
All of the young pitchers, Bailey, Cueto, Leake did well for most of the season. And when they brought up a replacement, like Wood, he did well too.
The starting pitching has not been nearly up to par with the 2010 season.

Rolen hit a bunch of homers in the first half last year and has been power dry since the 2010 ASB.
Gomes gave this team much more last year too. LF is an ongoing question mark.
Opponents pretty much won't pitch to Votto and let him hurt them like he did last year with all his big hits.

Strangely enough, Bruce and Cordero are having much better seasons though.

[UPRedsFan]

That's a lot of things that have to go right. If 3 of the starters get it together, the Reds will be fortunate.

You can look at it that way, or.... you can look at the opportunity they have for a strong 2nd half. They are hanging close with terrible starting pitching performances and a Chapman meltdown when he was supposed to replace Rhodes. And yet their only 5 games out. The opportunity is there to rebound in the 2nd half. They only need those pitchers I named to pitch like they've already shown they are capable of.

[AintlifeGrande]

Thankfully we are in the division we are in, as I don't see anyone running away with this thing.

Concerns of mine heading into this season were that A). We had remarkable durability last year, and B). lots of youthful players coming onto their own. I knew those wouldn't last, as guys get hurt, and young players get exposed after teams have a whole offseason to break down film.

Also, among other thing, I think the Reds miss the presence of an Arthur Rhodes.

Bottom line.Rhodes being gone has really hurt the bullpen.Think of all the jams he got us out of last year.

[brm7675]

Without looking it up, I'd bet Arroyo had his best season as a Red. He had very few games where he got blown up.
All of the young pitchers, Bailey, Cueto, Leake did well for most of the season. And when they brought up a replacement, like Wood, he did well too.
The starting pitching has not been nearly up to par with the 2010 season.

Rolen hit a bunch of homers in the first half last year and has been power dry since the 2010 ASB.
Gomes gave this team much more last year too. LF is an ongoing question mark.
Opponents pretty much won't pitch to Votto and let him hurt them like he did last year with all his big hits.

Strangely enough, Bruce and Cordero are having much better seasons though.

If you will see, at this point last year the Reds had just about the same number of wins as they do this year. They had fewer losses by around 6-7. The huge difference are the other teams in our division. They have all improved and some by a big margin. So I am more to lean on the idea that others have gotten better while we pretty much just stayed the same...

[brm7675]

Bottom line.Rhodes being gone has really hurt the bullpen.Think of all the jams he got us out of last year.

i dont see that at all, overall i think the bullpen has been great. Yes they have had a couple of issues, but i don't think them not having Rhodes this year has hurt us or would have ment that much this year.

[Vottomatic]

Bottom line.Rhodes being gone has really hurt the bullpen.Think of all the jams he got us out of last year.

Rhodes turns 42 in October. I turn 46 on June 19th. He's 4 years younger than me and still pitching in the major leagues. Wow.

Anyway......

As of June 6th, Rhodes has a 5.79 e.r.a.

He's given up 4 HR's in 14 IP. He's struck out 11 and walked 6.

I'll admit I hated to see him walk. I knew he was looking for one last big paycheck before he rode off into the sunset, and that the Reds couldn't afford him. I was concerned about his lingering foot problem he had last year.

I appreciate what he did last year, but based on his stats, he wasn't the answer.

[brm7675]

Rhodes turns 42 in October. I turn 46 on June 19th. He's 4 years younger than me and still pitching in the major leagues. Wow.

Anyway......

As of June 6th, Rhodes has a 5.79 e.r.a.

He's given up 4 HR's in 14 IP. He's struck out 11 and walked 6.

I'll admit I hated to see him walk. I knew he was looking for one last big paycheck before he rode off into the sunset, and that the Reds couldn't afford him. I was concerned about his lingering foot problem he had last year.

I appreciate what he did last year, but based on his stats, he wasn't the answer.

I am kinda unclear how the bullpen is an issue? Sure they have had a few "blowups" but had it not been for some horrible useage by the manager and some extra ususage due to poor SP outings, I would bet to say our bullpen is either the best or one of the tops in baseball.

[Eric from NC]

I think Keith Olbermann's declaration that the NL Central being by far the worst division in MLB is more accurate than I thought in April. I don't see any team capable of winning 90 games, but I also don't see why the Reds won't hang with MIL and STL through September with the team with best September record winning the division.

[brm7675]

I think Keith Olbermann's declaration that the NL Central being by far the worst division in MLB is more accurate than I thought in April. I don't see any team capable of winning 90 games, but I also don't see why the Reds won't hang with MIL and STL through September with the team with best September record winning the division.

Because we have Dusty and they don't....:laugh:

[texasdave]

I think Keith Olbermann's declaration that the NL Central being by far the worst division in MLB is more accurate than I thought in April. I don't see any team capable of winning 90 games, but I also don't see why the Reds won't hang with MIL and STL through September with the team with best September record winning the division.

Keith Olbermann must not have looked too closely at the A.L. Central.

[Señor Rojo]

Marvelous pitching tonight by the Reds, considering they out pitched a great Giants staff, starters and bullpen alike. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come on the rest of this road trip out on the west coast.

[UPRedsFan]

Like I said, the pitching will get turned around and will carry this team thru a strong second half.

[lonewolf371]

Keith Olbermann must not have looked too closely at the A.L. Central.
The AL West is worse than the AL Central.

[texasdave]

The AL West is worse than the AL Central.

That simply means Keith Olbermann was wrong twice.

[Vottomatic]

That simply means Keith Olbermann was wrong twice.

Twice? He worked for MSNBC, so he was wrong pretty much all of the time. :laugh: Pathetic network. They should just close up shop.

[Kingspoint]

I have a prediction:

fewfirstchoice will scream, "The Sky is Falling" at least 5 times during the months of June, July, August, September, and October.

Don't forget to enjoy the season, fewfirstchoice. There will be at least 90 wins during the regular season. That's a lot of reasons to enjoy life.

[signalhome]

Twice? He worked for MSNBC, so he was wrong pretty much all of the time. :laugh: Pathetic network. They should just close up shop.

And there it is! After the Olbermann reference, I was wondering how long it would be until the obligatory political comment was made. Took longer than I expected, honestly.

[lonewolf371]

That simply means Keith Olbermann was wrong twice.
Touche, good sir.:beerme:

[Maker_84]

Marvelous pitching tonight by the Reds, considering they out pitched a great Giants staff, starters and bullpen alike. Hopefully this is a sign of things to come on the rest of this road trip out on the west coast.

doubtful, the only legit pitcher we have on this staff is Cueto so don't be spoiled by him.

[webbbj]

the reds season is not over. but even if they dont make the playoffs the team is still fine moving forward. its about having a sustainable organization and not be some one hit wonder that sells the farm for one chance.

[bigredmechanism]

Twice? He worked for MSNBC, so he was wrong pretty much all of the time. :laugh: Pathetic network. They should just close up shop.

lol I am sure you get your news from a reputable source.

[Jefferson24]

Twice? He worked for MSNBC, so he was wrong pretty much all of the time. :laugh: Pathetic network. They should just close up shop.

true

[Jefferson24]

the reds season is not over. but even if they dont make the playoffs the team is still fine moving forward. its about having a sustainable organization and not be some one hit wonder that sells the farm for one chance.

I'm not sure how making the playoffs last year and not this year is "moving forward". Seems like a step backwards to me. Having a sustainable organization would indeed require that you sustain some level of success. Has that happened yet? I think not. One game over .500 on June 11 will not cut it.

[50YrRedsFan]

Too many failures in all facets of the game...Questionable decisions, poor pitching in general, especially starters, but relief not consistent either, hitting inconsistent, score 10 in one game, then can't score for several games.....just not going to be our year.

[Kingspoint]

I'm not sure how making the playoffs last year and not this year is "moving forward". Seems like a step backwards to me. Having a sustainable organization would indeed require that you sustain some level of success. Has that happened yet? I think not. One game over .500 on June 11 will not cut it.

The REDS went to the World Series in 1970. They moved forward in 1971, despite finishing with less than a .500 record.

[nux fan]

when the score is 3-0 baker brings in his best 8th inning guy with three runs margin of error
when the score is tied he brings in inferior pitchers, baker is functionally a disturbed irratinal manager who experiments with winnable games

[webbbj]

I'm not sure how making the playoffs last year and not this year is "moving forward". Seems like a step backwards to me. Having a sustainable organization would indeed require that you sustain some level of success. Has that happened yet? I think not. One game over .500 on June 11 will not cut it.

i thought at the beginning of the year the players could all be better but the record wont be as good.

Votto is votto

Bruce has taken a big leap.
Stubbs tho not a big leap has been more consistent in his numbers

BP: Better

Cueto: better
Leake: moving forward
Wood: seems to be on a decent track despite some struggle.
Heisey: looks solid
Bullpen: been really good.

All I hear is about guys like Frazier, Sappelt, Alonzo, Mesorasco, Cozart are playing well and should be called up.

Besides EV and Chapman all the young pieces are looking well. Not that they wont be.

Basically whats holding the team back are the old guys: rolen, gomes, lewis, arroyo, corero (hes playing well but the contract is holding them back to an extent)

[Krawhitham]

when the score is 3-0 baker brings in his best 8th inning guy with three runs margin of error
when the score is tied he brings in inferior pitchers, baker is functionally a disturbed irratinal manager who experiments with winnable games

going into last night Arredondo has an ERA of 1.50 (1.29 WHIP) , An ERA 2nd best on the team behind only the closer

Bray has an ERA of 1.64 (.95 WHIP)
Ondrusek has an ERA of 1.87 (1.10 WHIP)

Please explain to be how that is inferior?

The Day before it was Nick Masset with a 4.05 ERA (1.50 WHIP)

Tell me again how is Masset better?

[Krawhitham]

i thought at the beginning of the year the players could all be better but the record wont be as good.

Votto is votto

Bruce has taken a big leap.
Stubbs tho not a big leap has been more consistent in his numbers

BP: Better

Cueto: better
Leake: moving forward
Wood: seems to be on a decent track despite some struggle.
Heisey: looks solid
Bullpen: been really good.

All I hear is about guys like Frazier, Sappelt, Alonzo, Mesorasco, Cozart are playing well and should be called up.

Besides EV and Chapman all the young pieces are looking well. Not that they wont be.

Basically whats holding the team back are the old guys: rolen, gomes, lewis, arroyo, corero (hes playing well but the contract is holding them back to an extent)

BP better?

Less power
less speed
less runs

Heisey is horrible as a starter

Cueto was 6-1 this time last season
Leake was 5-0 this time last season

Only thing Stubbs has been consistent in is strike outs about 20 more than last season at this point.

[signalhome]

BP better?

Less power
less speed
less runs

Heisey is horrible as a starter

Cueto was 6-1 this time last season
Leake was 5-0 this time last season

Only thing Stubbs has been consistent in is strike outs about 20 more than last season at this point.

Uh, yeah, BP has been better.

Less power. Got me there.
Less speed. Not really that important, but Phillips' base running runs above average (which excludes SB and CS) are right where they always are. Phillips has always been an awful base-stealer.
Less runs. He's getting on base a lot more this year (.352 OBP, .332 last year), so that is hardly his fault. How is Phillips to blame for the Reds' #4 hitter being unable to drive him in all year? All Phillips can do is get on base and run the bases well, and he has done both of those things.

Phillips was a 4.2 WAR player last year with 101 wRC+, and he's on pace for 5.3 WAR this year with 108 wRC+. I'd say that's being better.

Stubbs is also on pace to increase his WAR by 1.1 this year (4.0 last year, on pace for 5.1), mostly thanks to improved defense, so I'm unsure why you have a problem with Stubbs. He's going to strike out a lot -- that's just the player he is -- but he's also going to do a lot of other things really well. Instead of chastising him for what he does wrong, give the guy some praise for what he does well; seems like I've said this a lot, mostly regarding a former Red that wore #44.

Edit: Regarding Phillips being driven in, Votto was pretty much always pitched around with a runner on, and before Bruce was put in the 4-hole, the Reds' cleanup hitters were awful.

[bigredmechanism]

boom i thought so but these things happen from time to time.

[knoonan991]

i thought at the beginning of the year the players could all be better but the record wont be as good.

Votto is votto

Bruce has taken a big leap.
Stubbs tho not a big leap has been more consistent in his numbers

BP: Better

Cueto: better
Leake: moving forward
Wood: seems to be on a decent track despite some struggle.
Heisey: looks solid
Bullpen: been really good.

All I hear is about guys like Frazier, Sappelt, Alonzo, Mesorasco, Cozart are playing well and should be called up.

Besides EV and Chapman all the young pieces are looking well. Not that they wont be.

Basically whats holding the team back are the old guys: rolen, gomes, lewis, arroyo, corero (hes playing well but the contract is holding them back to an extent)

Cordero is certainly not holding the team back. He's been one of the best closers in the league this year.

[webbbj]

Cordero is certainly not holding the team back. He's been one of the best closers in the league this year.

if you could read i said his contract is holding them back not his level of play.

[nux fan]

genius did it again used arredondo instead of masset

[CrosleyField]

June 15, 2.5 back. don't think its over quite yet.

[Kingspoint]

If we didn't have one of these threads every week, it wouldn't be a fan forum. Oddly, they get just as many of them in The Old Red Guard, ore enough anyway to where it's funny.

[Cincinnati 8]

Over are you crazy, the Reds are 2.5 games out and closing fast, it's not over by a longshot. Cuerto looks like Sy Young, Leake has been great lately, Woods has been very good lately, Arroyo is showing signs of improvment, Homer and Lecure will be back soon, the Reds just swept the Doggers. The Reds will be there at the end, just watch and see.

[Stray]

I've been saying it all year. There isn't a team in this division capable of running away with it. Everyone has shown their flaws.

I think Votto said it best when he said that they aren't even paying attention to the standings because right now they aren't competing against the Brewers or Cardinals, they're competing against the Reds and how good they know they can be.

[DaytonFlyer]

If it was too early to start this thread seriously, it is definitely way too early to sarcastically post to it in order to bring it back from the dead.