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View Full Version : 6/17/11 Toronto Blue Jays Eh



LincolnparkRed
06-17-2011, 04:38 PM
Reds lineup vs. Toronto

Drew Stubbs cf
Brandon Phillips 2b
Joey Votto 1b
Jay Bruce rf
Scott Rolen 3b
Jonny Gomes lf
Ryan Hanigan c
Paul Janish ss
Mike Leake p

vs. RH Jo-Jo Reyes (2-5, 4.30)

klw
06-17-2011, 05:45 PM
I just hope Bronson is not pitching this weekend.

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 07:00 PM
Grande!!!!!!

Danny Serafini
06-17-2011, 07:02 PM
Grande and Brantley, that's not a combination I expected.

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 07:05 PM
Grande and Brantley, that's not a combination I expected.

You could just tell Grande was so excited to call him Cowboy.

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 07:10 PM
I'm really liking the pitching matchups this series for the Reds

*I believe Arroyo's struggles against Toronto is dumb luck

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:10 PM
And this game is underway!

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:11 PM
Escobar grounds out to Phillips. 1 down.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:13 PM
Ugh. CB Bucknor at third. Yuck.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:14 PM
K

Dusty's son-in-law sits down.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:15 PM
2 down, Bautista up. Do NOT let this guy beat us.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:15 PM
KK

That'll work Mike! 1-2-3

mth123
06-17-2011, 07:16 PM
Nice first for Leake.

CrackerJack
06-17-2011, 07:17 PM
You could just tell Grande was so excited to call him Cowboy.

And he'll just come up with reasons to say it all night long...

That last pitch to Bautista was pretty nasty.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:19 PM
Stubbs K's. The K's are frustrating...but overall, Drew's OBP is still pretty decent.

GO! Double off the wall for Phillips!

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:21 PM
Joey grounds out to 2nd. Brandon advances to third. 2 down for Jay.

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 07:23 PM
And he'll just come up with reasons to say it all night long...

That last pitch to Bautista was pretty nasty.

He may say it 50 times tonight. I'm serious. (Thats only 3 times a half inning)

VR
06-17-2011, 07:23 PM
Stubbs K's. The K's are frustrating...but overall, Drew's OBP is still pretty decent.

GO! Double off the wall for Phillips!

Brandon must have been tweeting all day :thumbup:

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:23 PM
Bruce K's swinging. 0-0 after 1.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:26 PM
I'm not sure how much Estrogen one man can take. It's normally my wife and 4 daughters...and that's more than enough. But my oldest daughter is having a slumber party. Good lord. 12 women in this house, plus lil' ole me. Heck, even the pets are female.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:27 PM
Lind flies out to Bruce for out #1

Brutus
06-17-2011, 07:30 PM
Grounders and strikeouts thus far for Leake for the most part. I'll take that recipe.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:33 PM
Sorry, dinner's here. Somebody else can fill in the pbp for a bit.

redhawkfish
06-17-2011, 07:38 PM
I'm not sure how much Estrogen one man can take. It's normally my wife and 4 daughters...and that's more than enough. But my oldest daughter is having a slumber party. Good lord. 12 women in this house, plus lil' ole me. Heck, even the pets are female.

I also have four daughters. I used to have a fantasy baseball team called "Team Estrogen!" They are all teenagers now, so I fish a lot!:D

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:38 PM
Dang. I thought that was a gapper from Janish. Nice play by Rivera

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:39 PM
I also have four daughters. I used to have a fantasy baseball team called "Team Estrogen!" They are all teenagers now, so I fish a lot!:D

LOL. I find myself cutting the grass alot. :O)

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:42 PM
One of the most athletic pitchers I've seen in a long time. Great play by Leake

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:42 PM
Great D tonight. Now Janish. 2 down.

kbrake
06-17-2011, 07:42 PM
Reds flashing the leather this inning. Great play by Leake followed by a play Janish is making look routine.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:43 PM
9 in a row now by Leake. Keep it rollin' young man!

Danny Serafini
06-17-2011, 07:44 PM
followed by a play Janish is making look routine.

He loves that slide onto his left knee, doesn't he?

Homer Bailey
06-17-2011, 07:44 PM
Leake and Janish show.... Sir Charles' night is lookin up!

mth123
06-17-2011, 07:46 PM
Time for some runs. My Predictiion - Stubbs is going deep.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:47 PM
Leake and Janish show.... Sir Charles' night is lookin up!

Solid pitching and excellent defense and I'm a happy man. Regardless of WHO provides it.

mth123
06-17-2011, 07:49 PM
Ugh. Leake and Stubbs both K.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:53 PM
MORE defense! I love it. Votto climbs the ladder. 2 down.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 07:54 PM
Canadians can jump

LvJ
06-17-2011, 07:54 PM
There goes the perfect game.

WebScorpion
06-17-2011, 07:55 PM
MORE defense! I love it. Votto climbs the ladder. 2 down.I was surprised to hear Joey say Corey Patterson was his 'best friend in all of baseball'. He just stole a base hit from his bestie. :lol:

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:56 PM
*sigh* Half an inning discussion about a missing arm chair from the booth. Umm....guys, there's a baseball game going on?

Brutus
06-17-2011, 07:56 PM
It took Marcum 45 pitches to finally get out of the bottom of the first inning in Boston LOL

2-2 after one (and that game started about the same time as this one)

LvJ
06-17-2011, 07:57 PM
It took Marcum 45 pitches to finally get out of the bottom of the first inning in Boston LOL

2-2 after one (and that game started about the same time as this one)

What happened to Crawford?

WebScorpion
06-17-2011, 07:58 PM
POW! The Hanigun fires a bullseye! :thumbup:

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 07:58 PM
Out by 2 steps Joeybats....what are you griping about?

Brutus
06-17-2011, 07:58 PM
What happened to Crawford?

He left the game with a leg injury after an infield single.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 07:59 PM
POW! The Hanigun fires a bullseye! :thumbup:

Ahhh. I missed it. This has been an awesome defensive game so far. I'm lovin' it.

Now just put up a few runs and get the W

NJReds
06-17-2011, 08:03 PM
I don't understand why lefties don't just push the ball down the third base line and take the base when teams shift like that. The Jays 3B was almost by 2B.

Homer Bailey
06-17-2011, 08:04 PM
The 3-1 pitch to Votto was 8 inches outside and called a strike. Completely different inning if he gets on. Ugh.

NJReds
06-17-2011, 08:06 PM
1-2-3 go the Reds ...

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:09 PM
Lind grounds out to Phillips. 1 down.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:10 PM
Leake at 45 pitches. 29 strikes 16 balls. Great ratio...as usual.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:10 PM
Rivera grounds out to Brandon too. 2 down. Pitch efficient.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:12 PM
Wow. Phillips. He's a freak. 1-2-3 again.

This game has been a thing of beauty.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 08:12 PM
the birds helped Phillips make that play

redhawkfish
06-17-2011, 08:12 PM
Holy crap! What a play by Brandon!

NJReds
06-17-2011, 08:13 PM
Wow. Phillips. He's a freak. 1-2-3 again.

This game has been a thing of beauty.


Best defensive 2B in a long time.

Homer Bailey
06-17-2011, 08:13 PM
Wow. Just wow.

WebScorpion
06-17-2011, 08:13 PM
Wow! These guys are a spectacle on defense tonight. I don't think I've ever seen so many fantastic plays in one game. :notworthy:

redhawkfish
06-17-2011, 08:13 PM
62 minutes for half a game! Beer vendors are getting nervous.

Superdude
06-17-2011, 08:14 PM
Holy crap! What a play by Brandon!

As much as Janish's bat has been bugging me recently, him and Phillips are unreal up the middle. I think we'd be looking at a different ballgame with anybody else out there.

Brutus
06-17-2011, 08:15 PM
Red Sox' offense is downright scary. They're a machine. Taking pitches. Fouling off pitches. Then coming up with big hits. They lead 4-2 in the bottom of the 2nd. Brewers have already thrown 70 pitches in five outs.

Always Red
06-17-2011, 08:16 PM
BP- oh my.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:16 PM
Wow! These guys are a spectacle on defense tonight. I don't think I've ever seen so many fantastic plays in one game. :notworthy:

I've said this before, but the way Leake pitches makes this kind of defensive performance more likely. He pitches QUICKLY. He doesn't walk batters. Those 2 things combined...it keeps defenders on their toes. And when a GOOD defensive team like the Reds are on their toes in anticipation...this is what we get. I love it.

Superdude
06-17-2011, 08:16 PM
excellent bird shot by the slow-mo camera guy. It's the best of animal planet and web gems rolled into one

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:17 PM
Wow. I blinked. 6 pitch inning for Reyes. Yuck.

757690
06-17-2011, 08:17 PM
Red Sox' offense is downright scary. They're a machine. Taking pitches. Fouling off pitches. Then coming up with big hits. They lead 4-2 in the bottom of the 2nd. Brewers have already thrown 80 pitches in five outs.

Marcum was pulled after one inning. Not sure why.

redhawkfish
06-17-2011, 08:18 PM
Cool avatar of Davey Concepcion Always Red! Is that a baseball card pic or something else?

signalhome
06-17-2011, 08:19 PM
Marcum was pulled after one inning. Not sure why.

Marcum leaves start after just one inning (http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/329012/marcum-leaves-start-after-just-one-inning)

Beat reporter said he was favoring his leg.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:19 PM
Cool avatar of Davey Concepcion Always Red! Is that a baseball card pic or something else?

Somebody posted it in the Davey birthday thread. Venezuela baseball rookie card...pre-topps card...IIRC.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:19 PM
Hill flies out to Bruce for the first out.

Brutus
06-17-2011, 08:20 PM
Marcum leaves start after just one inning (http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/mlb/329012/marcum-leaves-start-after-just-one-inning)

Beat reporter said he was favoring his leg.

The report I heard was he was diagnosed with a bruised ego

:D

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:20 PM
The report I heard was he was diagnosed with a bruised ego

:D

If that was a real diagnosis...what would it be called for Volquez early in the year? :O)

Bruised, shattered, imploded, filleted, sliced & diced....

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:22 PM
Nix pops out to Bruce as well. 2 down for Reyes.

Brutus
06-17-2011, 08:23 PM
If that was a real diagnosis...what would it be called for Volquez early in the year? :O)

Bruised, shattered, imploded, filleted, sliced & diced....

I'd call that humility lol

signalhome
06-17-2011, 08:23 PM
If that was a real diagnosis...what would it be called for Volquez early in the year? :O)

Bruised, shattered, imploded, filleted, sliced & diced....

Better yet, what would the diagnosis be for Mazzaro in this relief appearance (http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=310516107)?

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:24 PM
Reyes singles up the middle.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:25 PM
Better yet, what would the diagnosis be for Mazzaro in this relief appearance (http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=310516107)?

LOL. I saw the highlights of that game. It just got so bad that it started being flat out hilarious.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 08:25 PM
Bird delay

Brutus
06-17-2011, 08:25 PM
BTW, Royals put one on the board against Carpenter in the first. Lead 1-0 in the bottom of the inning with 2 out

LvJ
06-17-2011, 08:26 PM
:lol: Silly birds.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:27 PM
Escobar grounds to Rolen for the force at 2nd.

Leake through 6 innings....
67 pitches (44 strikes, 23 balls), 2 hits, 2 k's, 0 bb's

LvJ
06-17-2011, 08:27 PM
Fastest game ever.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
YESSSSS!!!

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Leake pops out to Patterson.

Stubbs does the same...but it drops...INSIDE THE PARK HOMERUN!!!!

Brutus
06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Fastest game ever.

Meanwhile, Milwaukee-Boston is still in the top of the 3rd with nobody out and the bases loaded. Already 130 pitches in that game!

CTA513
06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Now thats the Patterson I remember.

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Bautista...nice. Misplayed into a inside the park HR!

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Danny Serafini
06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Someone called the Stubbs homer one at bat too early!

redhawkfish
06-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Woohoo!

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 08:31 PM
And Stubbs was even lollygagging until it dropped!

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 08:31 PM
Stubbs could have had a 6 bagger if he ran hard. ;)

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 08:32 PM
Stubbs was NOT hustling Cowboy. That remark is moronic.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:33 PM
Brewers tied it up. 4 all in the 3rd.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 08:33 PM
Stubbs was NOT hustling Cowboy. That remark is moronic.
Exactly. And they just showed the reply of him running the bases right before he said that.

And he just repeated it. Uhhhhhh? :confused:

jojo
06-17-2011, 08:35 PM
How is that not a 4 base error?

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 08:36 PM
How is that not a 4 base error?

I was just gonna write that it should be reviewed.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:37 PM
Patterson plunked.

NJReds
06-17-2011, 08:37 PM
I was just gonna write that it should be reviewed.

I don't think either OF touched the ball. It looked like Bautista pulled back when he saw the CF coming.

redsfaninbsg
06-17-2011, 08:38 PM
Patterson was out of the box when he got hit, his back foot was clearly out of the box going towards the plate.

757690
06-17-2011, 08:39 PM
How is that not a 4 base error?

Did Bautista touch the ball? If he did, it's an error, if he didn't, it's not. Stupid rule, but that's how official scorers have been scoring it for decades.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:39 PM
Nope. Neither touched the ball until after it hit the ground.

And with that...Bautista makes up for it. Double to plate Patterson.

redsfaninbsg
06-17-2011, 08:39 PM
Blown call costs the Reds a run.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Didn't take long for the Blue Jays to tie it up.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Dinger from Lind. 3-1 Jays. Wheels came off rather quickly this inning.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Well crap

redsfaninbsg
06-17-2011, 08:40 PM
That didn't take long.

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Eh, that's pushing it to call the HBP a blown call. That's how that is gonna play out 99 out of 100 times.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 08:40 PM
Leake in meltdown mode

NJReds
06-17-2011, 08:41 PM
Leake fell apart in a hurry.

redsfaninbsg
06-17-2011, 08:41 PM
Eh, that's pushing it to call the HBP a blown call. That's how that is gonna play out 99 out of 100 times.

I guess. Shame the umpires don't call the game by the rules.

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 08:41 PM
Leake in meltdown mode

Double and HR. Wouldn't go crazy there.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:42 PM
Double and HR. Wouldn't go crazy there.

Yep.

I was about to say that I would've IBB'd Bautista once Patterson swiped 2nd. Simply because I don't want to allow him to beat us. I'll take my chances with Lind. He might do what he ended up doing...but if there's one guy on this roster you don't want to let beat you, it's Bautista.

757690
06-17-2011, 08:43 PM
Middle of the lineup, the third time through the order. Not completely unpredictable.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:43 PM
Rivera grounds out. Arrencibia K's (#3)

757690
06-17-2011, 08:44 PM
Royals up 3-0 in the second, against Carpenter.

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 08:44 PM
Yep.

I was about to say that I would've IBB'd Bautista once Patterson swiped 2nd. Simply because I don't want to allow him to beat us. I'll take my chances with Lind. He might do what he ended up doing...but if there's one guy on this roster you don't want to let beat you, it's Bautista.

In more important news, Jo-Jo the Idiot Circus Boy is shutting down the Reds.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:44 PM
In more important news, Jo-Jo the Idiot Circus Boy is shutting down the Reds.

Say what you will...but he's throwing a solid game.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:45 PM
Hill with a bloop single to center. 2 down.

redsfaninbsg
06-17-2011, 08:47 PM
How's the Jays' pen? I try to avoid watching AL baseball.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:48 PM
Hill grounds to short. Force at 2nd to end the inning. 3-1 Jays.

Big Klu
06-17-2011, 08:49 PM
George said that Butcher told them that that was the first inside-the-park homer by the Reds since 2001. Chris Heisey hit one in Pittsburgh last year.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:52 PM
Bruce K's. 1 down.

Buckeye33
06-17-2011, 08:52 PM
It's amazing the streaks (good and bad) that Bruce goes through.

Wild.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:53 PM
GONE! ROLEN! :jump: 3-2 Jays

CTA513
06-17-2011, 08:54 PM
Rolen finally breaks out of his homer drought.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 08:54 PM
Good ol' Roly Poly!

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:54 PM
Jonny! Single. Rally time!

Brutus
06-17-2011, 08:54 PM
It's amazing the streaks (good and bad) that Bruce goes through.

Wild.

Yessir. His June OPS is almost exactly the same as it was in April.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:55 PM
Jays pen is up. Octavio Dotel.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 08:57 PM
Hanny! Single to put em on 1st & 2nd for Janish. 1 down.

Pitching change.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:00 PM
Octavio Dotel in. John McDonald in at third.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:01 PM
Red Sox up 5-4 on the Brewers.
Royals up 3-0 on the Cards, but the Cards are threatening.

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 09:02 PM
Yessir. His June OPS is almost exactly the same as it was in April.

Makes for discussion, would you rather have the highs and lows or more consistency w/o the extremes?

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:02 PM
Janish pops out to right. 2 down.

Leake is done. Heisey pinch hitting.

Homer Bailey
06-17-2011, 09:02 PM
It's going to get to a point where Janish needs to be PH'd for in these situations.

kbrake
06-17-2011, 09:04 PM
I think its already to the point where Cozart should be given a shot.

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 09:04 PM
It's going to get to a point where Janish needs to be PH'd for in these situations.

Heisey/Leake or Janish/Heisey?

Brutus
06-17-2011, 09:04 PM
Makes for discussion, would you rather have the highs and lows or more consistency w/o the extremes?

I would probably rather have it spread out over a more consistent array. But it's a good question.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:06 PM
It's going to get to a point where Janish needs to be PH'd for in these situations.

Its the same way for both shortstops.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:06 PM
Crud. Heisey grounds to third for the force. 3-2 Jays after 7 full.

Excellent outings by BOTH starters. Let's see which bullpen steps up.

Big Klu
06-17-2011, 09:07 PM
Heisey/Leake or Janish/Heisey?

How about Heisey/Renteria? (Since Edgar would have to come into the game anyway.)

Brutus
06-17-2011, 09:07 PM
Yet another QS for Leake. Unfortunately a HBP, getting behind on the best hitter and one mistake pitch to the cleanup guy might result in a loss.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:07 PM
4-3 Cards. Big double by Berkman.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:08 PM
Ondrusek in for the Reds 8th. Heisey in left for Gomes.

redsfaninbsg
06-17-2011, 09:08 PM
Hold em and give yourself a chance with the top of the lineup coming up.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:09 PM
Leadoff double down the 3rd base line for McDonald.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:09 PM
Ondrusek comes in and quickly gives up a double

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 09:09 PM
How about Heisey/Renteria? (Since Edgar would have to come into the game anyway.)

Or Heisey/Leake? ;)

WVRedsFan
06-17-2011, 09:10 PM
You know, is it me or has Logan not been as good lately?

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:11 PM
Escobar grounds out to Janish. McDonald advances to third.

Big Klu
06-17-2011, 09:12 PM
Or Heisey/Leake? ;)

I've got no problem with that. I like the way Leake swings the bat.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:12 PM
You know, is it me or has Logan not been as good lately?

I'll take my chances with a reliever with a 1.80 era with as many innings/appearances that he's had.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:12 PM
Grounder to Phillips...out at the dish. 2 down.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 09:12 PM
You know, is it me or has Logan not been as good lately?
7 baserunners and 1 HR in 3.2 ip in June.

Nice play Phillips/Hannigan!

NJReds
06-17-2011, 09:13 PM
Another nice play by Phillips to get the runner at home.

WVRedsFan
06-17-2011, 09:13 PM
Good old Corey P

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:13 PM
The good base runner is out easy at home.

Brutus
06-17-2011, 09:14 PM
It goes without saying, but cutting down that run was huge. Now they need to get Bautista out.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:14 PM
Wild pitch....Patterson to 2nd. IBB?

LvJ
06-17-2011, 09:14 PM
Pirates down 2-1 in the 7th to Cleveland.
Brewers down 5-4 in the 6th to Boston
Cardinals up 4-3 in the 4th vs. Kansas City.

redsfaninbsg
06-17-2011, 09:14 PM
Walk him.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 09:15 PM
Nice pitch.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:15 PM
Walk him.

Or not. Pop out to Votto.

It was a tough call as Lind has been on fire lately too.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 09:15 PM
Adam Lind has been super hot lately, so yeah.

Brutus
06-17-2011, 09:16 PM
Yeah I wouldn't walk him with a lefty like Lind up next. Luckily it worked out anyhow, but even if it had not, I'd feel the same way. If there were just one out, I might do it as it sets up a DP, but with two outs, rather just take my chances with Bautista.

Big Klu
06-17-2011, 09:17 PM
Walk him.

Maybe I'm way off-base, but I'm not afraid of Jose Bautista. Perhaps it's because I remember him as a below-average utility infielder for the Pirates.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:18 PM
I think Drew starts every at bat down 0-2.

3 pitch k. *sigh*

Brutus
06-17-2011, 09:18 PM
What on earth was Stubbs doing?

3 pitches taken down the pipe.

WVRedsFan
06-17-2011, 09:20 PM
Man. BP has lost 30points on his BA in no time at all!

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:21 PM
Okay Joey...take Leake off the hook.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 09:21 PM
Man. BP has lost 30points on his BA in no time at all!
Yep. .632 OPS in May. .565 in June. Bleh. Janish is OPSing .626 in June.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:22 PM
Okay...some guy with a bunch of letters in his name on the mound. I'm not even gonna try. Sheesh.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 09:22 PM
Darn.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:23 PM
Votto doesn't like the shift.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:24 PM
Well, Votto grounded out to end the inning. I think it was Superman's villain Mr Mxyzptlk on the mound, but I'm not positive..

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:25 PM
Royals tied it up 4-4. Sox up 7-4 now.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:26 PM
Masset in. Pop out to Stubbs for the 1st out.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:26 PM
Stubbs and Bruce had a chance to do what Patterson and Bautista did in right center but decided not to.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:27 PM
Rivera K's. 2 down.

Brutus
06-17-2011, 09:30 PM
Good inning for Masset. The pitching staff did its' job this game, for the most part. Now the bats have to wake up.

WVRedsFan
06-17-2011, 09:32 PM
Toronto under .500and we're down.
Something needs to happen this inning.

NJReds
06-17-2011, 09:32 PM
Surprised they didn't leave the lefty in to face Bruce.

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 09:32 PM
Francisco in...run(s) is/are possible.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:32 PM
No Encarnacion as a 9th inning defensive replacement?

;)

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:33 PM
K #3 for Bruce. Wow.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:34 PM
Francisco in...run(s) is/are possible.

which means a 1-2-3 inning?

NJReds
06-17-2011, 09:34 PM
Horrible AB from Bruce.

WVRedsFan
06-17-2011, 09:34 PM
Bruce is a true sTreak hitter.

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 09:35 PM
which means a 1-2-3 inning?

Probably

LvJ
06-17-2011, 09:36 PM
oh man. below the ankles.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:36 PM
Damn. Rolen K's looking. Sheesh.

NJReds
06-17-2011, 09:37 PM
Rolen Ks ... he swung once in the entire AB.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:37 PM
Fred Lewis pinch hitting. My confidence level is NOT high. *sigh*

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:37 PM
Dunn says Rolen should hike up his pants so the ump can see his knees.
;)

Brutus
06-17-2011, 09:37 PM
Gameday thought that was a strike--apparently moreso than Rolen lol

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 09:38 PM
Fred Lewis pinch hitting.

Ohhh Jonny. Not good.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 09:39 PM
Great AB by Lewis

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:39 PM
Full count. It would be highly appropriate to k looking.

But no! Single to extend the inning. Way to go Lewis.

redsfaninbsg
06-17-2011, 09:39 PM
Try to steal 2B?

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:40 PM
Lewis singles to make sure its not a 1-2-3 inning

Homer Bailey
06-17-2011, 09:40 PM
Ohhh Jonny. Not good.

Wasn't Gomes already out?

NJReds
06-17-2011, 09:40 PM
Nice. Lewis now 6-for-11 as a pinch hitter.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:40 PM
Wasn't Gomes already out?

Yep. Double switched with Heisey/Ondrusek.

LvJ
06-17-2011, 09:41 PM
Welp.

GG by Leake. That is all. Night.

_Sir_Charles_
06-17-2011, 09:41 PM
Hanny pops out to end the game. Crud.

CTA513
06-17-2011, 09:41 PM
Blue Jays crush the Reds 3-2

CrackerJack
06-17-2011, 09:42 PM
Yet another low-scoring, one run loss...sigh

edabbs44
06-17-2011, 09:43 PM
Wasn't Gomes already out?

Unsure, Grande said Bruce/Rolen/Gomes coming up so I thought he was in. Maybe..

WVRedsFan
06-17-2011, 09:43 PM
Another tough loss during a great pitching performance. Offense is sporadic!

alloverjr
06-17-2011, 09:58 PM
2 runs against a pedestrian lefty. I though the Reds were suppose to kill lefties. :confused:

At what point does it seem like a good idea to bring up a couple guys from AAA whose combined OPS is around 1.900 and avg OBP is over .380? To expect Votto and Bruce to win games for you on a nightly basis seems silly. Even if the younger guys fail I bet they minimally match the current production of the big leaguers who are blocking them. Frustrating when the club seems to be close.

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 10:06 PM
2 runs against a pedestrian lefty. I though the Reds were suppose to kill lefties. :confused:

At what point does it seem like a good idea to bring up a couple guys from AAA whose combined OPS is around 1.900 and avg OBP is over .380? To expect Votto and Bruce to win games for you on a nightly basis seems silly. Even if the younger guys fail I bet they minimally match the current production of the big leaguers who are blocking them. Frustrating when the club seems to be close.

You act like the Reds have a bad offense. I understand what you'd like, but dial it down a notch.

traderumor
06-17-2011, 10:13 PM
I hate losing the 1st game of a three game series. Just makes it seem harder to see winning the series after dropping the first one.

Something that is really getting old is the "come from behind" talk in every MLB game, whereby "come from behind" means behind at some point in the game. It is just really a meaningless fact that is mentioned endlessly in the late innings for the team that is behind.

Tony Cloninger
06-17-2011, 10:42 PM
This team reminds me of those 1986-88 teams....loads of "almost there"...and "potential" but they find ways to lose games and just barely are around .500...until they are out of the race, then they run off some nice little 12 out of 15 or 15 out of 20...to make their record look better than they really played all year.

CrackerJack
06-17-2011, 10:43 PM
You act like the Reds have a bad offense. I understand what you'd like, but dial it down a notch.

I don't know, I feel the frustration, thought it was a justified post. Haven't scored more than 2 runs in their last 4 losses for instance - that's an issue when you're only 3 games over .500 at this point (and this has been going on since last year, too much emphasis on total RS). The pitching has been solid for something like 17 games in a row now.

I don't know that RS alone when you have an MVP like Votto and an unreliable Rolen, and a super-streaky player like Bruce, tells the whole story? Not much power on this team outside of Votto/Bruce, and Votto's HR's are obviously down this year. Could use another RBI bat or two.

Tony Cloninger
06-17-2011, 10:48 PM
I don't know, I feel the frustration, thought it was a justified post. Haven't scored more than 2 runs in their last 4 losses for instance - that's an issue when you're only 3 games over .500 at this point (and this has been going on since last year, too much emphasis on total RS). The pitching has been solid for something like 17 games in a row now.

I don't know that RS alone when you have an MVP like Votto and an unreliable Rolen, and a super-streaky player like Bruce, tells the whole story? Not much power on this team outside of Votto/Bruce, and Votto's HR's are obviously down this year. Could use another RBI bat or two.


The Jays pitching is not very good even for an AL team..... yes they play in the almighty AL East...where only real men can play baseball there...but their pitching is below average and their bullpen blows leads and they have had problems closing out games.

I think anyone should feel frustrated watching this.

mth123
06-17-2011, 10:52 PM
I don't know, I feel the frustration, thought it was a justified post. Haven't scored more than 2 runs in their last 4 losses for instance - that's an issue when you're only 3 games over .500 at this point (and this has been going on since last year, too much emphasis on total RS). The pitching has been solid for something like 17 games in a row now.

I don't know that RS alone when you have an MVP like Votto and an unreliable Rolen, and a super-streaky player like Bruce, tells the whole story? Not much power on this team outside of Votto/Bruce, and Votto's HR's are obviously down this year. Could use another RBI bat or two.

:thumbup:

alloverjr
06-17-2011, 10:56 PM
You act like the Reds have a bad offense. I understand what you'd like, but dial it down a notch.

I ACT like the Reds have a very unbalanced offense relying heavily on the success of 2 players. No team is going to be solid 1-8, but not improving your club when you're able to do it from within at zero cost makes zero sense. You potentially upgrade LF, SS as well as leadoff with 2 internal moves. My sincere apologies if my opinion doesn't mirror yours.

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 11:10 PM
I ACT like the Reds have a very unbalanced offense relying heavily on the success of 2 players. No team is going to be solid 1-8, but not improving your club when you're able to do it from within at zero cost makes zero sense. You potentially upgrade LF, SS as well as leadoff with 2 internal moves. My sincere apologies if my opinion doesn't mirror yours.

Stubbs, BP, and C are above average with the stick. Saying the offense relies on 2 guys is hyperbole to me. Especially on a night where those 2 did nothing. Not trying to start a chicken or the egg thing either, just saying there are other guys who can hit on this club.

traderumor
06-17-2011, 11:11 PM
Sometimes the Reds just lose. It doesn't have to be because "they need a SS, they need a LFer, not enough homers from anyone but two people..."

They're 3-1 for the week, both of the teams ahead of them lost, there's another game tomorrow. I don't know how some folks make it through a baseball season with the rehashing and complaining after every loss.

Tony Cloninger
06-17-2011, 11:12 PM
Sometimes the Reds just lose. It doesn't have to be because "they need a SS, they need a LFer, not enough homers from anyone but two people..."

They're 3-1 for the week, both of the teams ahead of them lost, there's another game tomorrow. I don't know how some folks make it through a baseball season with the rehashing and complaining after every loss.


Lots of red bull and Slim Jim.

kaldaniels
06-17-2011, 11:13 PM
And don't get me wrong, I'd like an upgrade or 2, but saying this offense depends on Bruce is wrong. He had a subpar April, yet runs were plentiful.

reds44
06-17-2011, 11:47 PM
Biggest AB of the game was Janish in the 7th inning.

We need a SS.

mth123
06-18-2011, 01:27 AM
And don't get me wrong, I'd like an upgrade or 2, but saying this offense depends on Bruce is wrong. He had a subpar April, yet runs were plentiful.

The Reds played against a lot of poor teams and injured staffs in April. The Reds scored a ton of runs under those circumstances fueled by a lot of guys hitting well above where we should expect. Here are some OPS numbers to chew on:




Name April 2011 Difference
Phillips0.940 0.725 0.215
Renteria0.742 0.574 0.168
Votto 1.132 0.975 0.157
Janish 0.652 0.533 0.119
Gomes 0.828 0.730 0.098


Of the other players, only Bruce has improved significantly. Most others are about the same (with Hernandez still expected to drop IMO).

April still represents a large percentage of the season and is skewing the Reds' overall stats. Those April runs are fooling a lot of people into thinking this offense is better than it is. I don't think our expectations for this team's run production from here on out is represented by where they stand now.

traderumor
06-18-2011, 11:28 AM
The Reds played against a lot of poor teams and injured staffs in April. The Reds scored a ton of runs under those circumstances fueled by a lot of guys hitting well above where we should expect. Here are some OPS numbers to chew on:




Name April 2011 Difference
Phillips0.940 0.725 0.215
Renteria0.742 0.574 0.168
Votto 1.132 0.975 0.157
Janish 0.652 0.533 0.119
Gomes 0.828 0.730 0.098


Of the other players, only Bruce has improved significantly. Most others are about the same (with Hernandez still expected to drop IMO).

April still represents a large percentage of the season and is skewing the Reds' overall stats. Those April runs are fooling a lot of people into thinking this offense is better than it is. I don't think our expectations for this team's run production from here on out is represented by where they stand now.

April 5.2 RPG
May 4.6 RPG
June 4.8 RPG

Season 4.9 RPG

League Average 4.12 RPG

Comparison to league
Cin 4.89
St. L 4.76
Ariz 4.65
Col. 4.52
Mil. 4.38

I would agree with your point that April was our best offensive month. I would disagree with your conclusion that the offense is "not that good" since they are still top 5 in the league even with their worst month.

Of course, it would be great if we just scored 5 runs every game and let the chips fall where they may with the pitching. But then, that is a basic point of how the game works. I think that enough of the season has been played with our offense remaining at the top in RS to conclude that the offense is good enough. We could use a few breaks in one run games and win some interleague games. But, barring injuries, it appears that this offense is still going to be criticized as not that good when they are leading the league in offensive production two years running. How good is good enough? Not best in their league, then what is it?

I guess I'm one of the rare ones who learned that lesson during the Dunn/Griffey era, when I kept on arguing "more consistent offense" and others said "nah, its the D and pitching, that's where we need to look for improvement."

BTW, the RS/RA for June to date is 72-52 and the record is 9-6. That's 4.8/3.5. I think I see what's happening there. But I suppose we could look to see if those 72 runs had come in a complete even distribution what our record would be. If only the game worked that way.

kaldaniels
06-18-2011, 12:00 PM
If people over-analyzed the numbers with every team in the league the way they did the Reds, I think the Reds offense would be appreciated a bit more.

traderumor
06-18-2011, 12:11 PM
If people over-analyzed the numbers with every team in the league the way they did the Reds, I think the Reds offense would be appreciated a bit more.I think it comes from day to day following, whereby the forest gets missed for the trees. It is like making conclusions about an opponent based on your team's head to head play. Observation is awesome, but it can also cause one to be confused by facts at times.

mth123
06-18-2011, 01:09 PM
April 5.2 RPG
May 4.6 RPG
June 4.8 RPG

Season 4.9 RPG

League Average 4.12 RPG

Comparison to league
Cin 4.89
St. L 4.76
Ariz 4.65
Col. 4.52
Mil. 4.38

I would agree with your point that April was our best offensive month. I would disagree with your conclusion that the offense is "not that good" since they are still top 5 in the league even with their worst month.

Of course, it would be great if we just scored 5 runs every game and let the chips fall where they may with the pitching. But then, that is a basic point of how the game works. I think that enough of the season has been played with our offense remaining at the top in RS to conclude that the offense is good enough. We could use a few breaks in one run games and win some interleague games. But, barring injuries, it appears that this offense is still going to be criticized as not that good when they are leading the league in offensive production two years running. How good is good enough? Not best in their league, then what is it?

I guess I'm one of the rare ones who learned that lesson during the Dunn/Griffey era, when I kept on arguing "more consistent offense" and others said "nah, its the D and pitching, that's where we need to look for improvement."

BTW, the RS/RA for June to date is 72-52 and the record is 9-6. That's 4.8/3.5. I think I see what's happening there. But I suppose we could look to see if those 72 runs had come in a complete even distribution what our record would be. If only the game worked that way.

Well, nobody is saying to let the pitching rot, but this team isn't going to become the '71 Orioles or '95 Braves. The Rotation will continue to be in the bottom third of the league even when they are pitching relatively well. Part of that is the environment that they play in. GABP at home with lots of road games in places like Wrigley, Houston and Milwaukee. If this offense is 5th in the league under those conditions, its not that impressive. If the pitching is in the middle, I'd say that's the best we can do. No reason to keep running black holes out there when alternatives are on hand. Get Cozart up and get somebody like Hermida or Alonso to platoon with Gomes. The LF combo could probably hit in the 5 hole if platooned properly. Rolen would be pushed further down in the order and coupled with Cozart would hopefully add some production at the bottom. A few extra runs here and there could add wins. Why are so many against adding wins?

Ideally, we would resurrect Eppa Rixey and Bucky Walters and stick them in the front of the rotation, but I don't see this team having the cash for any top of the line starters if any became available so lets ensure that this stays a top 3 offense. Barring some black magic with Eppa and Bucky, to win 90 games, any less than one of the top offenses won't do.

kaldaniels
06-18-2011, 01:24 PM
Mth...no one is against adding wins. We'd all love an upgrade to LF or SS. But as it stands now the offense is the best in the league, yet people continue to sell it short. A reasonable point as made above is fine, but to speak of how April caused this offense to fool everyone is not.

cumberlandreds
06-18-2011, 01:52 PM
Other than the Reds offense looking like it still had jet lag they played a good game. Some really great defense was wasted as was a good pitching perfromance by Leake. Just two or three bad pitches cost Leake. Overall a good game except for the fact they lost. If they play like that defensively and pitching wise most nights this team will be fine.

mth123
06-18-2011, 02:02 PM
Mth...no one is against adding wins. We'd all love an upgrade to LF or SS. But as it stands now the offense is the best in the league, yet people continue to sell it short. A reasonable point as made above is fine, but to speak of how April caused this offense to fool everyone is not.

So how many RPG do you see this team averaging over the second half?

The 5.2 RPG that they averaged in April would annualize to an 840+ run powerhouse. The 4.7 or so since then would annualize to a little over 760. IMO that isn't good enough for this team to win much more than 85 games. I keep hearing how they are leading the league in runs, but they aren't the 840 run powerhouse from April. I think many think that they still are. I'd love to have better pitching, but I don't think this team can win 95 games while scoring 760 runs unless they upgrade 3 spots in the rotation.

kaldaniels
06-18-2011, 02:26 PM
So how many RPG do you see this team averaging over the second half?

The 5.2 RPG that they averaged in April would annualize to an 840+ run powerhouse. The 4.7 or so since then would annualize to a little over 760. IMO that isn't good enough for this team to win much more than 85 games. I keep hearing how they are leading the league in runs, but they aren't the 840 run powerhouse from April. I think many think that they still are. I'd love to have better pitching, but I don't think this team can win 95 games while scoring 760 runs unless they upgrade 3 spots in the rotation.

If I were able to bet, I would say 4.8-4.9 Runs a game. 4.85 if you want me to pinpoint it. Thats pretty much exactly where they stand seasonlong and for the month of June.

I'm all for improvement though. I'll take an upgrade at a few positions. But if things don't change, I still expect the Reds to be a top-3 offense easily, and if again, I could bet, I would expect them to score more runs than any team in the NL from here on out.

traderumor
06-18-2011, 05:45 PM
Well, nobody is saying to let the pitching rot, but this team isn't going to become the '71 Orioles or '95 Braves. The Rotation will continue to be in the bottom third of the league even when they are pitching relatively well. Part of that is the environment that they play in. GABP at home with lots of road games in places like Wrigley, Houston and Milwaukee. If this offense is 5th in the league under those conditions, its not that impressive. If the pitching is in the middle, I'd say that's the best we can do. No reason to keep running black holes out there when alternatives are on hand. Get Cozart up and get somebody like Hermida or Alonso to platoon with Gomes. The LF combo could probably hit in the 5 hole if platooned properly. Rolen would be pushed further down in the order and coupled with Cozart would hopefully add some production at the bottom. A few extra runs here and there could add wins. Why are so many against adding wins?

Ideally, we would resurrect Eppa Rixey and Bucky Walters and stick them in the front of the rotation, but I don't see this team having the cash for any top of the line starters if any became available so lets ensure that this stays a top 3 offense. Barring some black magic with Eppa and Bucky, to win 90 games, any less than one of the top offenses won't do.If anyone ever wondered what a "red herring" was, see Exhibit A bolded.

I'm still waiting for you to address the question I asked. If leading the league in offense with the same cast of characters, and that cast of characters also is probably the best defensive team in the league, why do folks continue to rail in low scoring losses against the players producing those results? Ok, I'm fine with DFAing Gomes and switching out Cozart for Renteria. But do you really honestly think that is going to take us from a 3 over team to a 95 win team, or even a 90 win team? That is the point I'm really missing here.

mth123
06-19-2011, 09:35 AM
If anyone ever wondered what a "red herring" was, see Exhibit A bolded.

I'm still waiting for you to address the question I asked. If leading the league in offense with the same cast of characters, and that cast of characters also is probably the best defensive team in the league, why do folks continue to rail in low scoring losses against the players producing those results? Ok, I'm fine with DFAing Gomes and switching out Cozart for Renteria. But do you really honestly think that is going to take us from a 3 over team to a 95 win team, or even a 90 win team? That is the point I'm really missing here.

You're right, You are missing the point. At 3 games over the winning % was .521. Over 162 games that is 84 wins. If they add 5 wins by scoring some more runs in close games, it might make adding a starter meaningful. An 84 win team isn't going to become a 95 win team by adding an Ace and leaving the rest status quo.

This isn't a case of a magic bullet fixing everything. Adding incremental improvements takes a team from 84 win caliber to 95 win caliber. Part of that is making it harder to wade through the line-up for the opposing pitcher by making improvements in obvious areas of weakness. Those are usually the easiiest spots to improve. Upgrading from a .550 OPS to a .700 OPS from the SS in the 8 hole won't win anything by itself, but its an incremental upgrade that will lead to more production and might convert a close loss or two to a win. Sticking a serious threat in LF that would make it difficult for pitchers to avoid Votto and Bruce doing all the damage would add runs beyond his individual performance. Adding a little production to the bottom of the order by pushing Rolen down and taking away such an automatic out in the 8th spot would make it much more difficult to pitch to this team. They have lost a lot of games where the pitching was good enough and they just didn't score enough runs while the opposing pitcher cruised through the line-up easily. Those are obvious spots to try to improve and improvement will add wins. Nobody thinks these changes will automatically improve the team, but its obvious the current collection of players isn't good enough. So quit frittering the season away and try to improve already.

That is the point being missed. This team needs to add wins where it can get them. Yes, the pitching is awful and the offense scores a lot of runs, but they can't/won't improve the pitching enough to take this team from 84 wins to 95 wins. But just maybe an upgrade at SS, a LF who can fill the 5 hole and a deal for a rotation upgrade could get them there. There is an obvious guy easily available to attempt to upgrade SS who won't cost anything and won't hurt the defense. There are multiple guys who may be able to platoon with Gomes and make that 5th spot in the order very productive and there are lots of other blocked kids who could be dealt to upgrade the rotation. Those incremental improvements aren't coming from sticking with this 25 man roster. Some changes are a phone call away and won't cost anything. Its time to start finding out if those changes can make a difference now, before they pull the trigger on a deal for an ace that empties the farm and still leaves this team short anyway. Waiting just increases the risk of making a huge organizational mistake IMO.