Reds vs. Indians at GABP -July 2, 2011 (The start of the playoff push!)

[forfreelin04]

Never started a game thread before (I don't believe)

Stubbs CF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Gomes LF
Hanigan C
Janish SS
Bailey P

Brantley LF,
Cabrera 2B,
Cabrera SS,
Santana 1B,
Sizemore CF,
Chisenhall 3B,
Kearns RF,
Marson C,
Carmona P

Interesting Stubbs back in the leadoff position.

I smell a victory!!

[forfreelin04]

Accuscore= 66% chance of a Reds win

Notables against Carmona

BP 3 for 6
Fred Lewis 3 for 6 (not playing)
Gomes (is playing) 0 for 7
Rolen 2 Doubles

Notables Against Bailey

Buck HR (not playing)
OCab 2 Doubles
ACab 2 for 4 (2 RBI)

[RBA]

I have three Fox Network stations. 1 out of NYC and 2 CAL( San Diego and LA). All three are showing the Yankees/Mets game today.

[BearcatShane]

I think this is the Reds fifth straight sellout. I wonder if thats a gabp record?

[LvJ]

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/dancing/10gy9hd.jpg

I feel good when Bailey is on the mound.

[reds44]

Anybody know any video streams?

[nate]

Chat is open!

[mbgrayson]

Anybody know any video streams?

I have the Yankees/Mets on my Fox feed in Montana..... Yuck!

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I think this is the Reds fifth straight sellout. I wonder if thats a gabp record?

It would almost certainly have to be a record.

[VR]

Nice 1st by Homer

[mth123]

Nice 1st by Homer

Man I hope he's healthy. He might be like a good acquisition if he can stay on the mound. I'm still a skeptic though.

[traderumor]

The trend of no scoring in the early innings needs to change.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Votto and Rolen can't get a hit with Stubbs in scoring position

[Kc61]

The trend of no scoring in the early innings needs to change.

Reds are a fine offense when Votto is hot. When he isn't hitting well, not so much. Another good hitter, another good pitcher, SS, LF.... Sigh.

[traderumor]

Reds are a fine offense when Votto is hot. When he isn't hitting well, not so much. Another good hitter, another good pitcher, SS, LF.... Sigh.That's really not anything to do with scoring early. Its probably just randomness, but its getting old with the starters giving up early runs.

[Kc61]

That's really not anything to do with scoring early. Its probably just randomness, but its getting old with the starters giving up early runs.

A hot Votto you score early. A hot cleanup hitter you score early. Top of the order just isnt hitting as well as last year. That simple.

[traderumor]

Nice 1-2-3 2nd for Bailey, whiff of Kearnsey included.

[mbgrayson]

Middle of the 2nd: Reds 0, Indians 0.

Bailey at 28 pitches, 22 strikes.

[Matt700wlw]

Middle of the 2nd: Reds 0, Indians 0.

Bailey at 28 pitches, 22 strikes.

That's efficient!

[traderumor]

Single for Bruce
Gomes whiffs
Hanigan HBP

1st and 2nd one out

Janish FC, need a two out hit from Bailey

[Kc61]

Single for Bruce
Gomes whiffs
Hanigan HBP

1st and 2nd one out

Janish FC, need a two out hit from Bailey

Yeah let's rely on Bailey to hit.

[traderumor]

Bailey hits it hard but Carmona gets in the way

0-0 after 2

[mbgrayson]

Reds 2nd:

Jay Bruce lines a single to shortstop.
Gomes Ks swinging.
Hanigan is hit by a pitch.
Janish hits into a 6-4 force out.
Bailey grounds out to Carmona.

After 2 innings, Reds 0, Indians 0.
Carmona at 30 pitches, 16 strikes.
Bailey at 28 pitches, 22 strikes.

[Matt700wlw]

Carmona looked like he had no idea where to go before stepping to the plate :lol:

Poor guy...then he falls down. He's having a rough day.

Well, that's not good. Now he's injured to the point of having to leave the game. That's a shame.

More evidence that the DH either needs to be in both leagues, or neither leagues?

[traderumor]

Eagle eye ump can tell that Janish was not touching the bag, even though his foot was on the back of the bag before the runner got there.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Yawnish gets the error

[Kc61]

Anyone frustrated yet?

[reds44]

Janish is fun bad.

Carmona just left with an injury.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Game over.

This team is a train wreck

[Matt700wlw]

Good lord.

Now it's 3-0.

[reds44]

Might wanna make a move, Walt!

[traderumor]

Yawnish gets the errorThis isn't the Sun Deck

[Kc61]

Hope that football lockout ends soon. This Reds season is about as much fun as a dental procedure.

[Matt700wlw]

Might wanna make a move, Walt!

Don't want to rush anything.

[Kc61]

Don't want to rush anything.

It's ok. Renteria improves with warm weather.

[traderumor]

This is deja vu of Sunday's game for Bailey. Lights out first 2 innings, then gets knocked around the rest of the outing.

[forfreelin04]

Don't want to rush anything.

We have to wait for this phantom string of wins.

[traderumor]

I hardly ever hang out in a game thread or read them. I'm quickly seeing why.

[Matt700wlw]

Carlos Santana not only plays a mean guitar, but he runs very well.

[forfreelin04]

Carmona's injury may work against us because the Indians bully is very good.

[Kc61]

I hardly ever hang out in a game thread or read them. I'm quickly seeing why.

Try the Indians board. Happy doings there.

[reds44]

I hardly ever hang out in a game thread or read them. I'm quickly seeing why.
I'm sorry but what do you expect while watching an underachieving team down 3-0 after getting beat 8-2 the night before?

[nate]

I only have gameday today but did the game end suddenly? Gameday says it's in the 3rd inning.

[Tony Cloninger]

I hardly ever hang out in a game thread or read them. I'm quickly seeing why.

Q the Rainbows and Lollipops song! :D

[Matt700wlw]

I only have gameday today but did the game end suddenly? Gameday says it's in the 3rd inning.

It's the 3rd inning. It feels much later, though

[forfreelin04]

I only have gameday today but did the game end suddenly? Gameday says it's in the 3rd inning.

In many ways, this game is over in the 3rd

[Cedric]

Q the Rainbows and Lollipops song! :D

I think Walt listened to this song all off season.

[Tony Cloninger]

I think Walt listened to this song all off season.


Walt has turned into Baghdad Bob.

Look at least....if this team starts quitting on Baker....THEN the moves or moving ahead to actually build a winning team...can commence.

[traderumor]

I'm sorry but what do you expect while watching an underachieving team down 3-0 after getting beat 8-2 the night before?
I understand the frustration. I don't know that I'd call it underachieving. I'd call it starting pitching underperforming/needing improvement. That is it again today. 3-0 early lead on a fat pitch long ball. Sure there could have been a DP, Rolen makes a bad throw, and you see "Yawnish" and no mention that the ump probably missed the call.

Anyhow, a weak 3rd, down 3-0 after 3. Votto is in a lonnnnnnnng slump and probably needs to consider an adjustment. Great hitters can't use the excuse of "pitching around." If he wants to be mentioned in the same breath with the great hitters in the league, he needs to make an adjustment. It isn't lack of protection.

[Tony Cloninger]

I understand the frustration. I don't know that I'd call it underachieving. I'd call it starting pitching underperforming/needing improvement. That is it again today. 3-0 early lead on a fat pitch long ball. Sure there could have been a DP, Rolen makes a bad throw, and you see "Yawnish" and no mention that the ump probably missed the call.

Anyhow, a weak 3rd, down 3-0 after 3. Votto is in a lonnnnnnnng slump and probably needs to consider an adjustment. Great hitters can't use the excuse of "pitching around." If he wants to be mentioned in the same breath with the great hitters in the league, he needs to make an adjustment. It isn't lack of protection.


And he spent time arguing with the ump instead of trying to throw to 1st base and get an out.

They were pitching around him before....now they are still not giving him much and he is no longer patient, IMO...as he was...beacuse no one else on the team is doing anything to help him.

[nate]

In many ways, this game is over in the 3rd

No game is over in the third inning.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice. The Indians guy didn't know they were in first place during the Phillips mic clip :)

[Kc61]

No game is over in the third inning.

I appreciate your optimism. It would be good if the Reds did one thing this year to deserve it.

[traderumor]

And he pent time arguing with the ump instead of trying to throw to 1st base and get an out.

They were pitching around him before....now they are still not giving him much and he is no longer patient, IMO...as he was...beacuse no one else on the team is doing anything to help him.Agreed on impatient. Meanwhile, good work getting out of a jam there by Bailey.

[Tony Cloninger]

Agreed on impatient. Meanwhile, good work getting out of a jam there by Bailey.

It was good work. A positive finally from the starting pitcher.

[Kc61]

Reds with two runs and seven hits through thirteen innings this series.

Indians 11 runs and 18 hits.

Old fashioned slaughter.

[traderumor]

Another 1-2-3. The hardest hit ball so far today was Gomes foul ball down the RF line. I think we need a team meeting ;)

[Tony Cloninger]

Reds with two runs and seven hits through thirteen innings this series.

Indians 11 runs and 18 hits.

Old fashioned slaughter.


If the pythag starts going south....then can we say this team is not very good?

[Tony Cloninger]

Another 1-2-3. The hardest hit ball so far today was Gomes foul ball down the RF line. I think we need a team meeting ;)


I agree...and there should have been one weeks ago. Instead we get the coddling act from Dusty and the "All is well" act from Walt Bacon.

The players have said it as well and now they cannot just turn it on and in fact have appeared to begun to feel sorry for themselves.

[traderumor]

I agree...and there should have been one weeks ago. Instead we get the coddling act from Dusty and the "All is well" act from Walt Bacon.

The players have said it as well and now they cannot just turn it on and in fact have appeared to begun to feel sorry for themselves.
My wink was indicating sarcasm for the team meeting solution.

[forfreelin04]

I understand the frustration. I don't know that I'd call it underachieving. I'd call it starting pitching underperforming/needing improvement. That is it again today. 3-0 early lead on a fat pitch long ball. Sure there could have been a DP, Rolen makes a bad throw, and you see "Yawnish" and no mention that the ump probably missed the call.

Anyhow, a weak 3rd, down 3-0 after 3. Votto is in a lonnnnnnnng slump and probably needs to consider an adjustment. Great hitters can't use the excuse of "pitching around." If he wants to be mentioned in the same breath with the great hitters in the league, he needs to make an adjustment. It isn't lack of protection.

Trade, I understand the frustration over the game thread negativity. Keep in mind, we only want to capture "some" of the magic of 2010. The frustrating part about the team is the purgatory feeling. Record aside, they have an offense that scores runs in bunches but then can go on a long drought. They lack the key hit in most close games. They've lost seemingly more games on walkoffs then had walkoffs themselves.

The pitching staff has found a solid TOR starter in Cueto, but the other starters minus Leake have took a step back. The bullpen is solid but often under-appreciated because of the lack of wins.

The front office is also in this state of purgatory. (Has been since Oct) They don't want to change things and have this false hope that the team will turn it around. They have several upgrades in AAA but refuse to bring them up. As Marty asked Dusty in the pregame "What make you think 84 games into this year that this team is suddenly going to start winning?" Certainly, there's hope due to their Pythag but they can't be the first team to wildly not mirror it.

[traderumor]

No runs in the 5th, Santana a bloop double, Sizemore K's swinging. Nice outing for Homer. Got burnt by Brantley, but two of seven hits are bloops, I'm positive about this outing through 5.

[nate]

I'm digging the 5K/0BB for Homer so far.

[Tony Cloninger]

My wink was indicating sarcasm for the team meeting solution.

Well played then...I fell for it in my myopic ....frustrated state.

[Matt700wlw]

Walt is watching the game.

They just showed him.

[traderumor]

Walt is watching the game.

They just showed him.You opened the door there :)

[VR]

Reds should have expected to not score too many runs against Halladay and Lee....errrrr Masterson and Herrman.

[OldXOhio]

Are we still waiting for this team to hit its stride? Just curious.

[OldXOhio]

Walt is watching the game.

They just showed him.

Was he awake? I know I barely am.

[Kc61]

Reds should have expected to not score too many runs against Halladay and Lee....errrrr Masterson and Herrman.

Today was Carmona. Halliday (Masterson) was yesterday.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Walt is watching the game.

They just showed him.

Was he awake?

Maybe he's like that guy from "Weekend at Bernie's" ...

[traderumor]

Bailey with another solid inning, fielding his position, 1 putout, 2 assists in the inning.

3-0 after 5-1/2

[HokieRed]

Homer goes 6, 2 ER, 6 K's, 1 W. Pretty good outing. Better than .500 clubs win on days like this.

[Tony Cloninger]

Trade, I understand the frustration over the game thread negativity. Keep in mind, we only want to capture "some" of the magic of 2010. The frustrating part about the team is the purgatory feeling. Record aside, they have an offense that scores runs in bunches but then can go on a long drought. They lack the key hit in most close games. They've lost seemingly more games on walkoffs then had walkoffs themselves.

The pitching staff has found a solid TOR starter in Cueto, but the other starters minus Leake have took a step back. The bullpen is solid but often under-appreciated because of the lack of wins.

The front office is also in this state of purgatory. (Has been since Oct) They don't want to change things and have this false hope that the team will turn it around. They have several upgrades in AAA but refuse to bring them up. As Marty asked Dusty in the pregame "What make you think 84 games into this year that this team is suddenly going to start winning?" Certainly, there's hope due to their Pythag but they can't be the first team to wildly not mirror it.



What was Dusty's answer to this question? by marty? "I know more baseball than some bloggers or announcers."?

[nate]

Promising outing by Homer so far. Aside from the 1 HR, 1 BB and 6 K.

[Tony Cloninger]

Promising outing by Homer so far. Aside from the 1 HR, 1 BB and 6 K.

Good to see Stubbs is increasing his pace. Came in with 62 K's in the last 35 games. .235 BA, .288 OBP.

Yes I know...striking out does not matter ..as it is just an out and should no correlation as to how well you are hitting or producing.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Promising outing by Homer so far. Aside from the 1 HR, 1 BB and 6 K.

He's got to be able to handle the situation when things begin to go slightly off track. This is now two straight starts where - I don't know what it is ... immaturity? - costs him dearly.

Last weekend in Baltimore, an innocent pop up isn't caught in the infield and then Bailey gives up a 3-run bomb.

Today, the error by Janish and same thing - he allows a big HR.

If Bailey wants to take the next step, he's got to handle situations like that. Especially the way the Reds offense can't score, a 3-run deficit is lethal.

[HokieRed]

Good to see Stubbs is increasing his pace. Came in with 62 K's in the last 35 games. .235 BA, .288 OBP.

Yes I know...striking out does not matter ..as it is just an out and should no correlation as to how well you are hitting or producing.

Serious question about Heisey, for me, is whether he'd give us more in CF than Stubbs (rather than endlessly comparing him to Gomes). I don't know the answer but this does seem to be the right question.

[Kc61]

Serious question about Heisey, for me, is whether he'd give us more in CF than Stubbs (rather than endlessly comparing him to Gomes). I don't know the answer but this does seem to be the right question.

Won't happen, but Stubbs could use three weeks at AAA.

Sorry.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Won't happen, but Stubbs could use three weeks at AAA.

Sorry.

Careful ... I suggested that about a week or so ago and it was like I suggested the Reds relocate to Portland.

[Kc61]

Careful ... I suggested that about a week or so ago and it was like I suggested the Reds relocate to Portland.

That's why I said sorry.

My view of baseball is old fashioned. If you can't make contact you can't help much on offense.

[11larkin11]

OK, Big White Elephant in the Room. Where is Joey Votto? No one wants to say it, they can talk about pitching, LF, SS, Stubbs, Bruce all they want, but when that guy at first has had one good game (w/o looking it up, just seems like it) vs. the Jays in the last month, we aren't going to win.

[forfreelin04]

What was Dusty's answer to this question? by marty? "I know more baseball than some bloggers or announcers."?

The exact answer I couldn't tell you, but it was something about the Reds not having a streak since the first of the year. He basically said they were due for a winning streak because every team has a long one every year. He also said everyone was healthy so that bred optimism.

Personally, I'm not a big Dusty fan, but in truth he really can't shoulder much blame. He's pulled some good strings with the bullpen and he's tried to maintain a healthy balance with platoons. He's given every LF and SS a chance to succeed and be the full time guy. No one has grabbed the reigns. He's done the best he can with what's available. Dusty will never show up a player so he's not going to say "Man I need me some Cozart and Sappelt."

I blame the first 84 games on WJ and his lack of moves in the off-season and lack of promotions this year. He let some cornerstones of last year's team go and didn't bother to replace them. But, he can't be faulted for wanting improvement or at least consistency from some of last year's players with a few exceptions they are mostly performing under last year's stats.

[Tony Cloninger]

Careful ... I suggested that about a week or so ago and it was like I suggested the Reds relocate to Portland.



Portland!??

Yes I agree. I think Lewis and Heisey could platoon in CF and not give you worse than avg D out there....and maybe Sappelt can come up and help in LF and CF as well.

[forfreelin04]

OK, Big White Elephant in the Room. Where is Joey Votto? No one wants to say it, they can talk about pitching, LF, SS, Stubbs, Bruce all they want, but when that guy at first has had one good game (w/o looking it up, just seems like it) vs. the Jays in the last month, we aren't going to win.

Joey V needs the AS Break as bad as anyone. Seems to be the type of player who overworks in the cage and in his mind. Got to get back to basics: pitch recognition and hitting the ball where its pitched. He looks lost and it doesn't help everyone outside of BP isn't hitting either.

[nate]

Good to see Stubbs is increasing his pace. Came in with 62 K's in the last 35 games. .235 BA, .288 OBP.



I Split PA BA OBP SLG OPS
Career Totals 1147 .256 .327 .430 .756
Last 7 days 20 .222 .300 .333 .633
Last 14 days 43 .171 .209 .293 .502
Last 28 days 101 .233 .310 .411 .721
Last 365days 651 .264 .336 .450 .786


I'm thinking his true ability is closer to the top or bottom lines than the inner ones.


Yes I know...striking out does not matter ..as it is just an out and should no correlation as to how well you are hitting or producing.

Well if that's what you know...

[Tony Cloninger]

The exact answer I couldn't tell you, but it was something about the Reds not having a streak since the first of the year. He basically said they were due for a winning streak because every team has a long one every year. He also said everyone was healthy so that bred optimism.

Personally, I'm not a big Dusty fan, but in truth he really can't shoulder much blame. He's pulled some good strings with the bullpen and he's tried to maintain a healthy balance with platoons. He's given every LF and SS a chance to succeed and be the full time guy. No one has grabbed the reigns. He's done the best he can with what's available. Dusty will never show up a player so he's not going to say "Man I need me some Cozart and Sappelt."

I blame the first 84 games on WJ and his lack of moves in the off-season and lack of promotions this year. He let some cornerstones of last year's team go and didn't bother to replace them. But, he can't be faulted for wanting improvement or at least consistency from some of last year's players with a few exceptions they are mostly performing under last year's stats.



Good grief...You just cannot just hope for a winning streak beacuse you have not had one. When will it happen? Probably when they are out of it ....and probably when they have brought in some new players.

The rest...I can agree with you on...as pretty much my thinking.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

The exact answer I couldn't tell you, but it was something about the Reds not having a streak since the first of the year. He basically said they were due for a winning streak because every team has a long one every year. He also said everyone was healthy so that bred optimism.

Personally, I'm not a big Dusty fan, but in truth he really can't shoulder much blame. He's pulled some good strings with the bullpen and he's tried to maintain a healthy balance with platoons. He's given every LF and SS a chance to succeed and be the full time guy. No one has grabbed the reigns. He's done the best he can with what's available. Dusty will never show up a player so he's not going to say "Man I need me some Cozart and Sappelt."

I blame the first 84 games on WJ and his lack of moves in the off-season and lack of promotions this year. He let some cornerstones of last year's team go and didn't bother to replace them. But, he can't be faulted for wanting improvement or at least consistency from some of last year's players with a few exceptions they are mostly performing under last year's stats.

This is exactly spot-on. Walt's inaction has led us to this point. The painful playoff performance against Philly should have been all the proof he needed that some offseason action was required. Instead we got stand pat.

And all we get now is Mike Brown-esque lip service like "We're happy with what we have."

And if Dusty is waiting for his .500 club to go on a winning streak because every team eventually does, he should realize that mediocre clubs that go on long winning streaks will eventually go on a long losing streak to balance it out. Has anything this club has done in 2011 led anyone to believe that they can reel off 10 straight then stay at that level?

[forfreelin04]

Good grief...You just cannot just hope for a winning streak beacuse you have not had one. When will it happen? Probably when they are out of it ....and probably when they have brought in some new players.

The rest...I can agree with you on...as pretty much my thinking.

I agree, but in his shoes what else can he do? It's not like he can plug in better options at SS and in LF by calling them up from AAA himself. :)

[Tony Cloninger]

I Split PA BA OBP SLG OPS
Career Totals 1147 .256 .327 .430 .756
Last 7 days 20 .222 .300 .333 .633
Last 14 days 43 .171 .209 .293 .502
Last 28 days 101 .233 .310 .411 .721
Last 365days 651 .264 .336 .450 .786


I'm thinking his true ability is closer to the top or bottom lines than the inner ones.

Good thing he is reaching that magic 1500 AB area....so then we can really decide if this guy is...what he is.

Well if that's what you know...


Yeah...and what I know is....striking out this much and not doing anything else....like walking occasionally or hitting for power when he does hit...makes him not productive or helpful at all.

[Kc61]

Gomes on base. Hope Dusty hits for Janish and Bailey when they get up.

[Tony Cloninger]

This is exactly spot-on. Walt's inaction has led us to this point. The painful playoff performance against Philly should have been all the proof he needed that some offseason action was required. Instead we got stand pat.

And all we get now is Mike Brown-esque lip service like "We're happy with what we have."

And if Dusty is waiting for his .500 club to go on a winning streak because every team eventually does, he should realize that mediocre clubs that go on long winning streaks will eventually go on a long losing streak to balance it out. Has anything this club has done in 2011 led anyone to believe that they can reel off 10 straight then stay at that level?


Never would have thought that OC and Nix would be that much of a loss.

I think the 1984 Reds won 13 out of 14 in middle to late May.....that team was 73-89. This team is like Morse Code... W-L-W-L-W-L.

[Kc61]

Lewis hitting for Soft J with one on and one out.

[Playadlc]

Bases juiced.

Come on, Stubbs.

[Kc61]

Two on, infield hit for Lewis.

Renteria up. Base hit. Bags full.

[OldXOhio]

Very low expectations here.

[Kc61]

Stubbs hits into force at home. BP up.

[Tony Cloninger]

Stubbs hits into force at home. BP up.


Did he at least have a good AB and was just unlucky where he hit it?

[Playadlc]

Phillips K's, of course.

This is pathetic.

[11larkin11]

Quick note white looking at random stats. Fred Lewis has 0 SB and 4 CS this year.

[OldXOhio]

This team is so hard to watch.

Keep waiting on that magical streak to happen Dusty and Walt. Just don't be surprised when this team is 5 games below .500 and it still hasn't happened.

[Kc61]

Did he at least have a good AB and was just unlucky where he hit it?

Grounder to third. Fell behind in the count.

Now BP with 2-2 count. K.

[Tony Cloninger]

Grounder to third. Fell behind in the count.

Now BP with 2-2 count. K.


Let me guess....took a fat strike...swung at a ball that was a ball halfway there and almost in the dirt?

[Cedric]

Can someone photoshop Walt as Baghdad Bob?

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

This team is so hard to watch.

Keep waiting on that magical streak to happen Dusty and Walt. Just don't be surprised when this team is 5 games below .500 and it still hasn't happened.

"We like what we have."

[Kc61]

Let me guess....took a fat strike...swung at a ball that was a ball halfway there and almost in the dirt?

Just listening, don't recall the details.

I keep typing out rants and erasing them. Don't want to bother everyone with my anger.

[HokieRed]

If you want to explain, though, why this is no better than a .500 team, you need look no further than Bronson Arroyo and Edinson Volquez, not WJ.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Phillips K's, of course.

This is pathetic.

Oh-so-typical of this team. Last night BP hits two utterly meaningless HRs, including an upper deck shot, in a dismal 8-2 loss. Today, when it's needed, he strikes out.

[Cedric]

The problem with this team is it's taking away my fun from last year. I remember watching the playoffs last year and knowing the Reds had basically no chance at winning the title. I was ok with that because I truly thought Walt would build on that team and give us some serious hope.

Now I realize he thought the Reds were actually a very good team. Scary the lack of vision from him, IMO.

[HokieRed]

Time for some changes. I'd start by bringing up David Sappelt and putting him in center field, DFA Lewis. Cozart to SS would be soon to follow.

[forfreelin04]

Never would have thought that OC and Nix would be that much of a loss.

I think the 1984 Reds won 13 out of 14 in middle to late May.....that team was 73-89. This team is like Morse Code... W-L-W-L-W-L.

OC's contributions are evident because of the Indians success. Guy loves to play the game and his mantra rubs off on his teammates.

Nix was the best left-handed bat off the bench. Plus, he was a nice defensive replacement for Gomes. Now if Lewis is playing the Reds have ZERO lefties off the bench.

Don't forget about Rhodes too. He was an All-Star.

Truth be told, the real problem here isn't the replacement of these three but the fact Walt thought the remaining would improve. Votto hasn't (although still having a good year) Bruce outside of the best month of his career has struggled with consistency, Stubbs has fallen back into bad habits, Wood was so bad he's in AAA, Arroyo has fallen off a cliff much like Aaron Harang, and the catching tandem hasn't repeated last year's dominant success.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Just listening, don't recall the details.

I keep typing out rants and erasing them. Don't want to bother everyone with my anger.

Can't criticize. Gotta erase what you wrote and go with the "aww shucks, well at least they're trying really really hard out there."

[Tony Cloninger]

Just listening, don't recall the details.

I keep typing out rants and erasing them. Don't want to bother everyone with my anger.

Let it out.... you are a peacock ...You need to be allowed to spread your wings and fly!

[Gallen5862]

Did the Reds score with the bases loaded? What inning is it?

[forfreelin04]

Did the Reds score with the bases loaded? What inning is it?

No, they did not. Still 3-0 Tribe.

Bases loaded 1 out. Stubbs grounded to first forcing Gomes out at the plate then BP struck out swinging.

[Tony Cloninger]

OC's contributions are evident because of the Indians success. Guy loves to play the game and his mantra rubs off on his teammates.

Nix was the best left-handed bat off the bench. Plus, he was a nice defensive replacement for Gomes. Now if Lewis is playing the Reds have ZERO lefties off the bench.

Don't forget about Rhodes too. He was an All-Star.

Truth be told, the real problem here isn't the replacement of these three but the fact Walt thought the remaining would improve. Votto hasn't (although still having a good year) Bruce outside of the best month of his career has struggled with consistency, Stubbs has fallen back into bad habits, Wood was so bad he's in AAA, Arroyo has fallen off a cliff much like Aaron Harang, and the catching tandem hasn't repeated last year's dominant success.


Too bad they need to carry all these pitchers...beacuse an extra bench guy like Nix would have been nice.

Is someone going to tell Stubbs to choke on the bat a little and just make some contact to at least use your speed? I like his power but it's not like he has that much power that you would do some disservice to him.

If anyone saw Nate Colbert hit in 1975-76....I would think Stubbs is Nate Colbert.

[OldXOhio]

Fear not, the"meat" of the order is up in the 8th.

[forfreelin04]

Too bad they need to carry all these pitchers...beacuse an extra bench guy like Nix would have been nice.

Is someone going to tell Stubbs to choke on the bat a little and just make some contact to at least use your speed? I like his power but it's not like he has that much power that you would do some disservice to him.

If anyone saw Nate Colbert hit in 1975-76....I would think Stubbs is Nate Colbert.

The way Stubbs misses pitches I don't know if choking up would make much difference.

He's a streaky player like Bruce. I think eventually Bruce will be an All-Star but Stubbs has been the same player even up through the minors.

[Kc61]

Reds offensive problem is so obvious. Rolen should hit sixth. New cleanup man needed.

Reds pitching problem is so obvious. Need one more high end starter. Too many back of rotation types.

I think it is that simple. A pitcher and a hitter. I guess WJ sees it differently.

[Tony Cloninger]

The way Stubbs misses pitches I don't know if choking up would make much difference.

He's a streaky player like Bruce. I think eventually Bruce will be an All-Star but Stubbs has been the same player even up through the minors.


I know last year was no 1970....but I wonder what Bob H was doing when in 1971...that team could not win, or HIT at all?

He at least went out and got Buddy Bradford and then George Foster during that year.

[Playadlc]

If there is one thing that could right the ship and get this team going it's a late inning comeback.

[OldXOhio]

So we only lose 3-1 now. Yeah.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Fear not, the"meat" of the order is up in the 8th.

:lol:

[OldXOhio]

I think it is that simple. A pitcher and a hitter. I guess WJ sees it differently.

For some reason, I just had visions of Major League after hearing that comment about Walt's do nothing approach...

"They don't call him the best color man in the business for nothing folks"

[Big Klu]

Joey Votto has now passed Dave Concepcion for 24th place on the Reds all-time home run list.


Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds 100-Home Run Club
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Adam Dunn - 270
5. Ted Kluszewski - 251
6. George Foster - 244
7. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
8. Eric Davis - 203
9. Barry Larkin - 198
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Brandon Phillips - 114
21. Frank McCormick - 110
22. Dave Parker - 107
23. Chris Sabo - 104
24. Joey Votto - 102
25. Dave Concepcion - 101

[OldXOhio]

Since no one's mentioned it...

Votto homers
Rolen doubles
Bruce Ks

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

If there is one thing that could right the ship and get this team going it's a late inning comeback.

I thought taking 2 of 3 from the awesome Rays on the road was going to be the spark.

And before that it was the big outburst against the Yanks that was going to do it.

And before that it was sweeping LA that was going to do it.

Before that it was beating Lincecum and splitting with the world champs.

Unfortunately, all of that is followed by absolutely zero.

[Tony Cloninger]

I thought taking 2 of 3 from the awesome Rays on the road was going to be the spark.

And before that it was the big outburst against the Yanks that was going to do it.

And before that it was sweeping LA that was going to do it.

Before that it was beating Lincecum and splitting with the world champs.

Unfortunately, all of that is followed by absolutely zero.



I think the players think it....then it does not go their way....so they get down. They start feeling sorry for themselves and making excuses for things not going their way.

Just another one of my deep thoughts.

[Kc61]

I think the players think it....then it does not go their way....so they get down. They start feeling sorry for themselves and making excuses for things not going their way.

Just another one of my deep thoughts.

Thats when you need some new blood with a positive attitude.

[Tony Cloninger]

Thats when you need some new blood with a positive attitude.

Well they have to do something going into these games with STL and MIL.....and not just again...expect them to take off...or beat them like they have earlier in the year. I mean if they go out and beat them like they have been...I am going to wonder what this team was doing these last few weeks, except going through the motions and waiting for the big series.

With medical miracle Pujols coming back after the AS break with a broken wrist..... and his magic stem cells ready to be parted out to all the other STL players, they have to do something.

[toledodan]

fail. :thumbdown:

[forfreelin04]

This team cannot get a big hit to save itself.

[forfreelin04]

Well at least Chris Perez isn't here, and the Reds have Renteria, Stubbs, and Phillips in the ninth.

[Tony Cloninger]

This team cannot get a big hit to save itself.

They will. Don't the Colorado Rockies do this about every year? Good young team. Everyones pick to click..... wait until they are almost out of it and then come on strong. Never consistent the whole year though and you give up on them ...and then that is when they start winning.

[forfreelin04]

Thats when you need some new blood with a positive attitude.

Agreed. Even when the team was terrible in the lost decade, you can count on some rejuvenation by adding a player from AAA who was having a great year. They have four young ballplayers having great years (Sappelt, Cozart, Meso, and Alonso) but don't want to bring them up.

[11larkin11]

Agreed. Even when the team was terrible in the lost decade, you can count on some rejuvenation by adding a player from AAA who was having a great year. They have four young ballplayers having great years (Sappelt, Cozart, Meso, and Alonso) but don't want to bring them up.

Frazier and Francisco aren't doing too shabby either.

[forfreelin04]

They will. Don't the Colorado Rockies do this about every year? Good young team. Everyones pick to click..... wait until they are almost out of it and then come on strong. Never consistent the whole year though and you give up on them ...and then that is when they start winning.

In this division, even if they have a .500 July, they still might win it with a great August or September. The problem is, I firmly believe they'd finish 3rd in nearly every other division in the Major Leagues.

[Reds Freak]

In this division, even if they have a .500 July, they still might win it with a great August or September. The problem is, I firmly believe they'd finish 3rd in nearly every other division in the Major Leagues.

Well the good thing is that's not really a problem.

[forfreelin04]

Frazier and Francisco aren't doing too shabby either.

I was wondering about Francisco just a minute ago.

Wasn't he supposed to be the great sub for Rolen this year? I think their shining him up in AAA because they know he can't hit ML pitching.

[Tony Cloninger]

I read somewhere else that Heisey has trouble with pitches away....I saw Durbin work him away and he had no chance. I see the 3 HR game and they are all inside pitches he pretty much hit. Another case of a young player getting no coaching? Not learning to adjust?

[forfreelin04]

Well the good thing is that's not really a problem.

HAHA! I know. But it doesn't bode well for the playoffs even if you win the division.

Regardless if they were in 1st right now, I still think they need a true Ace to go to the WS.

[forfreelin04]

I read somewhere else that Heisey has trouble with pitches away....I saw Durbin work him away and he had no chance. I see the 3 HR game and they are all inside pitches he pretty much hit. Another case of a young player getting no coaching? Not learning to adjust?

No need to read it Tony. With his hands so high, there's no way he could drive a pitch to right that was an outside strike. That and I really don't think he can hit a curveball which is IMO why he struggles starting.

[OldXOhio]

Thats when you need some new blood with a positive attitude.

Walt's happy with what we've got.

[Reds Freak]

Find a way to get Votto to the plate.

[toledodan]

Walt's happy with what we've got.



i'm glad he is because i'm not.

[OldXOhio]

HAHA! I know. But it doesn't bode well for the playoffs even if you win the division.

Regardless if they were in 1st right now, I still think they need a true Ace to go to the WS.

Playoffs? PLAYOFFS????

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

i'm glad he is because i'm not.

Walt sees six straight sellouts* and sees no reason to change anything.








* Thanks to tens of thousands of Yankees/Indians fans

[Reds Freak]

Walt sees six straight sellouts and sees no reason to change anything.

Now that's not true.

[Tony Cloninger]

No need to read it Tony. With his hands so high, there's no way he could drive a pitch to right that was an outside strike. That and I really don't think he can hit a curveball which is IMO why he struggles starting.

OK...hitting a curveball is not for everyone ...but making adjustments with your swing or stance is something Jose B did....so how about working on that and maybe maybe something to help him with outside pitches?

But what do I know...I never understood how Davey C hit either...beacuse he could never really go the other way either. Always said...He would be a better hitter if he quit lunging and protected the outside part of the plate. It worked for him though.

[Tony Cloninger]

Walt sees six straight sellouts* and sees no reason to change anything.








* Thanks to tens of thousands of Yankees/Indians fans



NOW that would be Very Mike Brownish of him to think.

Let's go....3 runs and go pound some Bud!

[OldXOhio]

NOW that would be Very Mike Brownish of him to think.

Let's go....3 runs and go pound some Bud!

How about we pound some Bud now in advance of the inevitable.

[toledodan]

we are cleveland's !!!!!.

[OldXOhio]

Yep, no problems whatsoever with this offense. Pitching is our only problem.

[Tony Cloninger]

How about we pound some Bud now in advance of the inevitable.


I have some J & D..... hope that gives them an extra kick.

[reds44]

Everything is fine. We'll look within to fix our problems, and by look within I mean on the 25 man roster.

[forfreelin04]

Sorry gents, thought I could change the fortune by starting the game thread.

Tim Belcher should get Coach of the Year hands down.

[OldXOhio]

we are cleveland's !!!!!.

We are pretty much the ***** of any team that plays winning baseball.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Yep, no problems whatsoever with this offense. Pitching is our only problem.

I'd absolutely love to know what the "our offense is just fine" crowd sees/thinks when they see a game like this.

Two games, three solo home runs. That's it.

[forfreelin04]

Everything is fine. We'll look within to fix our problems, and by look within I mean on the 25 man roster.

But we'll wait till we're totally out of it before we do.

Baseball is the only business I know of that we'll pay a player more for playing poorly when there's a cheaper and better option available.

[OldXOhio]

Everything is fine. We'll look within to fix our problems, and by look within I mean on the 25 man roster.

Nothing a good Dusty group hug can't fix. We'll get after it again tomorrow and pray to the gods of magic that a streak develops.

[forfreelin04]

we are cleveland's !!!!!.

God Bless them. The City of Cleveland needs a winner more than Charlie Sheen needs a muzzle.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

At least we broke that monotonous W-L-W-L-W-L-W-L rut we were stuck in.

[forfreelin04]

Nothing a good Dusty group hug can't fix. We'll get after it again tomorrow and pray to the gods of magic that a streak develops.

The Gods of Magic say we have to be below .500 before an actual streak can start.

[forfreelin04]

At least we broke that monotonous W-L-W-L-W-L-W-L rut we were stuck in.

And who says we're not a postive group! :beerme:

[OldXOhio]

Three months into the season is it now safe to say those that predicted the Reds 2011 fall were correct?

[Tony Cloninger]

Three months into the season is it now safe to say those that predicted the Reds 2011 fall were correct?



Where is Hal King when you need him?

[Ron Madden]

It seems like this team just can't hit well and pitch well at the same time.

[forfreelin04]

It seems like this team just can't hit well and pitch well at the same time.

Mark of a .500 baseball team.

[reds44]

Mark of a .500 baseball team.
And that's what this team is, make no mistake about it.

[CrackerJack]

I'd absolutely love to know what the "our offense is just fine" crowd sees/thinks when they see a game like this.

Two games, three solo home runs. That's it.

Will reference small sample sizes?

Meanwhile in, I believe, 7 of their last 9 games at home, they've scored 2 runs or less, and one of those games they scored 3, of course the other game they scored 10.

Offensively I think they simply lack a good approach throughout the line-up and are as streaky and inconsistent as you can be, extreme highs followed by extreme lows/droughts.

I'm not even worried about the pitching, it should continue to improve in the 2nd half. I have no idea how this team leads the NL in RS. They did last year as well, and I thought the post-season series with Philly was a microcosm of this season and the type of team they really are outside of this division.

They need more help/talent, and there's a lot of misplaced hope and cheek-turning from Reds' management regarding that.

[757690]

Three months into the season is it now safe to say those that predicted the Reds 2011 fall were correct?

If they were out of contention, yes.

3 games out of first with three months to go? Are you kidding?

[HeatherC1212]

Let me preface my comments here by mentioning that I was at last night's game and today's game and they were frustrating games. Today I ended up sitting by three Indians 'fans' who paid NO attention to the game at all through about 8.5 innings and then had the gall to stand up and cheer when the Indians won which made me ten times crankier than if the Reds had just lost today. Absolutely the stupidest and most annoying thing I have experienced at the ballpark this season. Bandwagon fans honk me off so bad that I can't even put it into words. I haven't really gotten over seeing so many Cleveland bandwagon fans the last two days either so I'm a little cranky tonight. :thumbdown:

That said, is this a game thread? I came here to see what you guys thought about the Janish play in the 3rd inning (Indian dude was out from my vantage point) and instead of seeing game comments, all I saw was more of the same random crap that has permeated the rest of the board and made me not want to post here. Look, I know the team isn't doing well right now, I'm not stupid and I know something needs to kick start these guys, but when I can't even poke my head in a game thread to see what other folks (especially those at home who may have seen the replay) thought about a play during a game I was at without seeing all that same stuff again, that's ridiculous. Can't the game threads actually be about the games anymore? :confused:

One last thought....we went to the HOF today and saw the Johnny Bench exhibit (which is awesome BTW). Something stood out to me when we were watching the movie thing they made for him. The Big Red Machine did NOT win the World Series right off the bat when they were first coming together in the early 70's. They had some success, some failures, lots of young talent, and some disappointments along the way. It took them a few years to find all the right pieces to make it work and it showed in '75 and '76. They were competitive for most of that decade but they weren't world champions in their first few years together. Just because Walt hasn't done anything to this point DOESN'T mean he won't do anything and I really believe that if some sort of trade that will HELP THIS CLUB LONG TERM comes up during the month of July that the Reds brass will pull the trigger. I don't want to see a flash in the pan/one year wonder. I want a team that's in the hunt for a long amount of time and eventually, maybe we'll find our piece/s that pull it all together for a World Championship. I refuse to give up on my team and until the magic number doesn't exist for us anymore, we ARE in this race.

/end rant

*goes back to lurking* :(

[HeatherC1212]

Double post. Sorry! :eek:

[GAC]

We were at yesterday's game, and the only thing hot was the weather.

Intently watching our hitters, all I can say is that these guys are pressing bad. They were up there first pitch swinging, hacking away, and showing very little patience at all. It was simply a pitiful display.

Thank God we're in a division where no one is playing like they want to win it (so far). We're playing poorly, yet still only 3 games out, so this division is winnable still.

But the wild card, IMO, won't be coming from the Central.

[Tony Cloninger]

Let me preface my comments here by mentioning that I was at last night's game and today's game and they were frustrating games. Today I ended up sitting by three Indians 'fans' who paid NO attention to the game at all through about 8.5 innings and then had the gall to stand up and cheer when the Indians won which made me ten times crankier than if the Reds had just lost today. Absolutely the stupidest and most annoying thing I have experienced at the ballpark this season. Bandwagon fans honk me off so bad that I can't even put it into words. I haven't really gotten over seeing so many Cleveland bandwagon fans the last two days either so I'm a little cranky tonight. :thumbdown:

That said, is this a game thread? I came here to see what you guys thought about the Janish play in the 3rd inning (Indian dude was out from my vantage point) and instead of seeing game comments, all I saw was more of the same random crap that has permeated the rest of the board and made me not want to post here. Look, I know the team isn't doing well right now, I'm not stupid and I know something needs to kick start these guys, but when I can't even poke my head in a game thread to see what other folks (especially those at home who may have seen the replay) thought about a play during a game I was at without seeing all that same stuff again, that's ridiculous. Can't the game threads actually be about the games anymore? :confused:

One last thought....we went to the HOF today and saw the Johnny Bench exhibit (which is awesome BTW). Something stood out to me when we were watching the movie thing they made for him. The Big Red Machine did NOT win the World Series right off the bat when they were first coming together in the early 70's. They had some success, some failures, lots of young talent, and some disappointments along the way. It took them a few years to find all the right pieces to make it work and it showed in '75 and '76. They were competitive for most of that decade but they weren't world champions in their first few years together. Just because Walt hasn't done anything to this point DOESN'T mean he won't do anything and I really believe that if some sort of trade that will HELP THIS CLUB LONG TERM comes up during the month of July that the Reds brass will pull the trigger. I don't want to see a flash in the pan/one year wonder. I want a team that's in the hunt for a long amount of time and eventually, maybe we'll find our piece/s that pull it all together for a World Championship. I refuse to give up on my team and until the magic number doesn't exist for us anymore, we ARE in this race.

/end rant

*goes back to lurking* :(



The 2010 team is no 1970 Reds....even if the 1970 Reds pygath showed them at 91-71 instead of the 102-60 that they were. Hence, they won a lot of close games.....and this team can barely function when they are tied late in the game or in EI.

The 1970's teams...up until 1977-78....did not have to worry too much about FA or arbitration......or starting the clock on arbitration.
They could make trades based on a player for player worth/value to each teram.

Now trades are almost always.... vet for prospects. The Reds are hesitant to do this beacuse of how long it took them to even have a handful of prospects.

They also were in the Top 3 in attendance.

Some see this team as having a short window and think Joey is out the door in 2 more years. You want to waste one of those years...just happily middling around and hoping things click? Unless there is some Magic button in the clubhouse...that is going to make these guys start winning some of these games.... some of the frustration and sarcasm is going to seep into some of those game threads.

I read the quotes in this morning's enquirer on line...... from Bailey and Baker....and I wonder if they think we are morons.