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Ron Madden
07-04-2011, 03:26 PM
Lewis LF
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Hernandez C
Stubbs CF
Renteria SS
Cueto P

Ron Madden
07-04-2011, 03:49 PM
Theriot SS
Jay RF
Holliday LF
Berkman 1B
Freese 3B
Rasmus CF
Molina C
Schumaker 2B
Carpenter P

klw
07-04-2011, 03:56 PM
3 of 4 games started now by Renteria, if my math is right. I wonder if a shift has been made or if Janish is hurt/under the weather. Otherwise do Cozart and Janish switch spots after the AAA Allstar Game?

It worked yesterday so lets bring back the rah rah video.
YouTube - ‪40 Inspirational Speeches in 2 Minutes‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wRkzCW5qI)

Ron Madden
07-04-2011, 04:09 PM
3 of 4 games started now by Renteria, if my math is right. I wonder if a shift has been made or if Janish is hurt/under the weather. Otherwise do Cozart and Janish switch spots after the AAA Allstar Game?

It worked yesterday so lets bring back the rah rah video.
YouTube - ‪40 Inspirational Speeches in 2 Minutes‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wRkzCW5qI)

I'll be rooting for him because he's a Red but Renteria's defense sends cold chills up my back.

Kc61
07-04-2011, 04:33 PM
I'll be rooting for him because he's a Red but Renteria's defense sends cold chills up my back.

Renteria's defense would be passable if he hits. He hasn't been making errors lately. Cold chills seems a bit strong.

Main point is that Janish's bat is gradually landing him on the bench.

Ron Madden
07-04-2011, 04:51 PM
Renteria's defense would be passable if he hits. He hasn't been making errors lately. Cold chills seems a bit strong.

Main point is that Janish's bat is gradually landing him on the bench.

That's a big if.

May be a bit strong for you but Not so much for me. It's my back, my cold chills and my opinion. ;)

Happy Independence Day. :beerme:

WVRedsFan
07-04-2011, 06:05 PM
And the Pirates keep winning. They are not going away.

Tom Servo
07-04-2011, 06:12 PM
And the Pirates keep winning. They are not going away.
Yes they are. They're going to win more games than usual, but they are not a legitimate pennant contender this year.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:16 PM
Lewis lines out to Carpenter.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:18 PM
Phillips strikes out looking. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:22 PM
Good AB. Infield hit for Votto.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:23 PM
Rolen singles to left center. 1st and 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:24 PM
That was Rolen's 2000th career hit.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:26 PM
Bruce pops out to 2nd. 0-0 mid 1st.

reds44
07-04-2011, 06:26 PM
My god that was a hanger.

Kc61
07-04-2011, 06:27 PM
Bruce with that uppercut swing from 2010.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 06:27 PM
My god that was a hanger.

I thought the exact same thing as it was going to the plate. My eyes were wide open ready for a three run jack.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:30 PM
Theriot flies out to center. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:31 PM
Jay bloop hit to left center.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 06:31 PM
Is it me or was Stubbs playing very deep for Jay?

Kc61
07-04-2011, 06:32 PM
Is it me or was Stubbs playing very deep for Jay?

Yes. Tough sun too.

reds44
07-04-2011, 06:33 PM
Cueto is extremely uncomfortable on the mound right now.

reds44
07-04-2011, 06:33 PM
That'll work.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:33 PM
Holliday grounds into a 4-3 DP. 0-0 after 1.

Red in Chicago
07-04-2011, 06:33 PM
dp...just what the doctor ordered..

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 06:34 PM
Cueto is extremely uncomfortable on the mound right now.He's working a little too high for my tastes...I hope he gets it down a bit more. the DP saves him some work. :clap:

nate
07-04-2011, 06:35 PM
Chat is open!

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:37 PM
Hernandez grounds out to short. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:38 PM
Stubbs grounds out to short. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:40 PM
Renteria strikes out looking. 0-0 mid 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:43 PM
Nice diving catch by Phillips. 1 out.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 06:44 PM
We really need to run Carpenter's pitch count up...look for him to go 120+ pitches even on a hot day like today. 38 pitches in 2 innings.

reds44
07-04-2011, 06:45 PM
Cueto is still extremely uncomfortable on the mound.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:45 PM
Freese grounds back to Cueto it goes off his glove right to Renteria. 1-6-3. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:46 PM
Rasmus grounds out to 1st. 0-0 after 2.

BCubb2003
07-04-2011, 06:46 PM
Cardinals announcers have lots of nice things to say about Phillips.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:47 PM
Dbacks have come back to tie the Brewers 6-6 in the 8th.

reds44
07-04-2011, 06:47 PM
Johnny Cueto leading off next inning for the #Reds. Turn there now to see the fight when he gets hit with a pitch by Carpenter

lol

edabbs44
07-04-2011, 06:48 PM
Cheap Cheap Fun Fun may be the worst commercial I have ever seen. If anyone is watching the STL broadcast.

reds44
07-04-2011, 06:49 PM
Carpenter getting a Halladayesque zone.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:49 PM
Cueto pops out to Carpenter. 1out.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 06:49 PM
Cueto is still extremely uncomfortable on the mound.I thought he looked good against Rasmus...he got ahead 0-2, then stepped off to dry his fingers on the rosin, stayed in his rhythm and delivered a nice 0-2 off-speed pitch on the outside part of the plate to induce the grounder. :thumbup:

OldXOhio
07-04-2011, 06:50 PM
Cheap Cheap Fun Fun may be the worst commercial I have ever seen. If anyone is watching the STL broadcast.

Yep, pretty bad. Of course I can't hear it after being forced into a Hrabosky induced shut down of the volume.

reds44
07-04-2011, 06:50 PM
I thought he looked good against Rasmus...he got ahead 0-2, then stepped off to dry his fingers on the rosin, stayed in his rhythm and delivered a nice 0-2 off-speed pitch on the outside part of the plate to induce the grounder. :thumbup:
He forgot the count on one of the guys and he's still screwing with the rosin a lot.

He's getting people out though so who cares.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:52 PM
Lewis strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

edabbs44
07-04-2011, 06:52 PM
I wonder what Carpenter tells his son when he asks what's that giant lump under his lip.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:53 PM
Phillips fouls out to right. 0-0 mid 3rd.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 06:54 PM
Phillips fouls out to right. 0-0 mid 3rd.Berkman would have never gotten that...I wish Pujols were back. :D

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:56 PM
Molina lines a single to center.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:57 PM
Schumaker grounds into a 3-6 FC. 1 out.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 06:58 PM
Schumaker grounds into a 3-6 FC. 1 out.Nice gold glove defensive play by Joey there... he fielded that ball in front of the second baseman's position and threw a perfect strike to the SS. :thumbup:

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 06:59 PM
Carpenter sacrifces the runner to 2nd. 2 outs.

klw
07-04-2011, 07:00 PM
Cueto is extremely uncomfortable on the mound right now.

The balls are mudded funny and the mound is a different height from the one in the pen. ...

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:00 PM
Theriot singles to right and Bruce nails the runner at the plate. 0-0 after 3.

Red in Chicago
07-04-2011, 07:00 PM
wow...running on bruce...

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:04 PM
Votto lines out to left. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:05 PM
Rolen grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:05 PM
Looking like a pitchers duel.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:06 PM
Diamondbacks 7
Brewers 6

top of 9th after a Chris Young single scores Kelly Johnson with 2 outs

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:07 PM
Jay robs Bruce with a catch at the wall. 0-0 mid 4th.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:07 PM
DAMN

Tom Servo
07-04-2011, 07:07 PM
:thumbdown:

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:07 PM
Jay robs Bruce with a catch at the wall. 0-0 mid 4th.

I guess turnabout is fair play

Kc61
07-04-2011, 07:08 PM
Brewers down two in the ninth. Opportunity for Reds perhaps.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:08 PM
Now 8-6 Dbacks over the Brewers. 2nd day in a row the Brewers have blown a 6-1 lead.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:08 PM
Diamondbacks score another; lead 8-6 now in the 9th

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:09 PM
Jay robs Bruce with a catch at the wall. 0-0 mid 4th.Another 2 or 3 inches and that would have been unreachable...as it was, it was a home run caught by Jay. Berkman would have been nowhere close to that. The Pujols injury keeps playing dividends. :thumbdown:

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:10 PM
Leadoff walk to Jay.

Kc61
07-04-2011, 07:11 PM
Dangerous inning. Let's go Cueto.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:11 PM
Keep it down Johnny... A DP would be nice. ;)

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:11 PM
He still acts weird on the mound.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:12 PM
He still acts weird on the mound.I wonder if his neck is bugging him again.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:13 PM
Ramon nails Jay attempting to steal.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:14 PM
Holliday walks.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 07:14 PM
Now 8-6 Dbacks over the Brewers. 2nd day in a row the Brewers have blown a 6-1 lead.

I think we know what the brewers need at the trade deadline.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:14 PM
I wonder if his neck is bugging him again.

He's just acting funny; he keeps going to the rosin bag. I've never seen him do that before.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:14 PM
Holliday walks.NOW a DP would be nice... ;)

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:15 PM
He's just acting funny; he keeps going to the rosin bag. I've never seen him do that before.

He must simply be having a hard time gripping the ball. I guess the Cards didn't rub down the baseballs, huh?

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:15 PM
He's just acting funny; he keeps going to the rosin bag. I've never seen him do that before.He's sweating like a stuck pig.

CTA513
07-04-2011, 07:15 PM
Cueto closing in on Carpenters pitch count.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:16 PM
It's to the point now that he's going to the rosin after every pitch. The only pitch he's thrown for a strike in the last 7-8 pitches was a foul ball.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:16 PM
All the suden big control problems with Cueto.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:16 PM
Great play by Joey.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:16 PM
Nice over the shoulder catch in foul territory by Votto.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:17 PM
Freese flies out to right. 0-0 after 4.

LincolnparkRed
07-04-2011, 07:18 PM
lets go reds. long time since my last game thread

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:18 PM
Cueto closing in on Carpenters pitch count.After 4 complete, Johnny at 51 pitches, Whiner at 60.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:19 PM
Hernandez lines a single to left.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:20 PM
C'mon Stubbs break out right here.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:21 PM
Stubbs grounds into a 5-4 FC. 1 out.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:21 PM
Stubbs grounds into a 5-4 FC. 1 out.Baseclogger removal. ;)

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:23 PM
Renteria grounds out to 3rd. Stubbs goes to 2nd. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:25 PM
Cueto grounds out to Carpenter. 0-0 mid 5th.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:27 PM
Brewers lost 8-6.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:29 PM
Brewers lost 8-6.

Sometimes, I feel like this division is a revolving door of suckitude.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:29 PM
Rasmus singles to right.

BCubb2003
07-04-2011, 07:29 PM
Sometimes, I feel like this division is a revolving door of suckitude.

So you're saying we have a chance?

Kc61
07-04-2011, 07:30 PM
Molina up. Dangerous against Reds. Slow, let's get two here.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:30 PM
So you're saying we have a chance?

Yes, and it's the only reason I've not jumped into total freak out mode like some. Although, I view this road trip as kind of a mood setter.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:31 PM
Cueto can't keep this up. He's living on borrowed time with this lack of command.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:31 PM
Molina grounds into a 4-3 DP.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 07:31 PM
BP with the DP

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:32 PM
Schuamaker grounds off the glove of Cueto to Phillips. 1-4-3. 0-0 after 5.

Kc61
07-04-2011, 07:32 PM
Cueto is getting more grounders with his new delivery.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:33 PM
Brewers lost 8-6.So if we win today, we'll still be in 4th place, but only 1 game out of 1st. :eek: ...and the Pirates will be in third place, .5 games out of first and .5 games ahead of us. Now that is a tight race!

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:33 PM
Cueto is getting more grounders with his new delivery.

Indeed. Nearly a 2-1 GB:FB ratio this year. Love it.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:34 PM
So if we win today, we'll still be in 4th place, but only 1 game out of 1st. :eek: ...and the Pirates will be in third place, .5 games out of first and .5 games ahead of us. Now that is a tight race!


I really feel like if Cincy plays even with the pack from now til the end of the month they win this thing. The Reds schedule is so much easier compared to the other contending teams, I would cry if they lost.:lol:

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:34 PM
Lewis lines out to short. 1 out.

Ron Madden
07-04-2011, 07:34 PM
Seems like Johnny isn't throwing inside very often.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:37 PM
Phillips flies out to the track in left center. 2 outs.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:37 PM
Carpenter is in some groove now.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:37 PM
BP flies out to center displaying his warning track power. :D

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:38 PM
Joey needs to take one for a ride. :pray:

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:40 PM
Votto singles to center. His 2nd hit tonight.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:41 PM
Votto singles to center. His 2nd hit tonight.On the 8th pitch...Finally someone makes him work for it. :thumbup:

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:41 PM
Interesting anecdote:

Carpenter has thrown 83 pitches today. Votto has forced 20 of them.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 07:41 PM
Does Carp say the F word to his son?

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:42 PM
Rolen flies out to right. 0-0 mid 6th.

OldXOhio
07-04-2011, 07:44 PM
Rolen flies out to right. 0-0 mid 6th.

Please get us another hitter Walt so Rolen can hit in the 6 hole where he belongs.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2011, 07:44 PM
Yes, and it's the only reason I've not jumped into total freak out mode like some. Although, I view this road trip as kind of a mood setter.

I would say I am in a contained zone of freak mode.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 07:45 PM
I'm in the mode of watching a well played game by 2 teams.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:45 PM
Carpenter pops out to short. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:45 PM
Nice catch by Bruce.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:46 PM
Reds haven't hit it well at all today, but they are playing much better overall.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 07:46 PM
Give that man a GG!

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:46 PM
Jay grounds out to 3rd. 0-0 after 6.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 07:46 PM
Best inning of the year for Cueto.

OldXOhio
07-04-2011, 07:47 PM
Give that man a GG!

Anxious to see Jay hit this next inning. If Carp doesn't keep pounding him outside, JB's due to give one a ride.

BCubb2003
07-04-2011, 07:47 PM
All our pitchers should act so funny.

OldXOhio
07-04-2011, 07:48 PM
Best inning of the year for Cueto.

has he even thrown 70 pitches yet?

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:48 PM
After 6 complete innings:
Carpenter's son's dad - 85 pitches, Cueto - 71 pitches.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 07:48 PM
Was that another F bomb from the FSN crew?

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:49 PM
Was that another F bomb from the FSN crew?

They're just trying to keep up with Carpenter.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:49 PM
Bruce grounds out to 2nd. 1 out.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:49 PM
That AB reminded me of April, Jay pulling balls on the outer third of the plate into the belly of the second baseman.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:51 PM
Hernandez walks.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 07:51 PM
Ramon has earned every penny the Reds have paid him.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:53 PM
Hernandez walks.Carp's getting tired, make him work. He's moving his arm around between pitches occasionally like his shoulder doesn't feel right.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:54 PM
Stubbs lines a single to right. 1st and 2nd.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 07:54 PM
Did Thom just criticize Drew's firsthalf....jeez.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 07:55 PM
Stubbs lines a single to right. 1st and 2nd.Nice AB, he went with what they gave him....keep making him work Edgar. Come on! :clap:

signalhome
07-04-2011, 07:55 PM
Did Thom just criticize Drew's firsthalf....jeez.

I wish that surprised me.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:55 PM
Renteria flies out to right. 2 outs. Hernandez does not advance on that.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:56 PM
Cueto grounds out to 2nd. 0-0 mid 7th.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 07:57 PM
I despise Carp, but he is dealing.

Where's MikeTheiry?

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:57 PM
Will T.L.R. bring out Carpenter in the 8th? He's been worked pretty hard the last few games, will be interesting to see if he comes back out. My guess is yes.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 07:58 PM
Put me on record for one who agreed with Dusty letting Cueto hit, now lets just hope it works.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 07:58 PM
Will T.L.R. bring out Carpenter in the 8th? He's been worked pretty hard the last few games, will be interesting to see if he comes back out. My guess is yes.

He is at 102 pitches. I think they will try for one more inning. The Cardinals do everything they can to avoid the bullpen as long as possible.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 07:59 PM
He is at 102 pitches. I think they will try for one more inning. The Cardinals do everything they can to avoid the bullpen as long as possible.

Yeah the Genius has lost faith in his pen.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:00 PM
Put me on record for one who agreed with Dusty letting Cueto hit, now lets just hope it works.

With Cueto at only 70 pitches and the ability to turn the lineup over in the 8th, I agree. I thought it was the obvious decision.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 08:00 PM
Put me on record for one who agreed with Dusty letting Cueto hit, now lets just hope it works.

Scoring chances have been precious few in this game. I'd have hit for him

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2011, 08:01 PM
That AB reminded me of April, Jay pulling balls on the outer third of the plate into the belly of the second baseman.

Why would you throw him anything inside. He does not go the other way and forgot all that Jimmy E...we thought...had taught him.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:01 PM
Holliday flies out to right. 1 out.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2011, 08:02 PM
Is it hot yet? Can someone please bring the heat in for Renteria.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:03 PM
Berkman walks.

OldXOhio
07-04-2011, 08:03 PM
Why would you throw him anything inside.

How does Jay not know this?

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:06 PM
Freese grounds into a 4-6-3 DP. 0-0 after 7.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 08:06 PM
Score the man, me, you, Reds fans world wide a run please! Cueto deserves the W.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 08:07 PM
Yeah the Genius has lost faith in his pen.The last 3 starts LeGenius has pitched Carpenter over 123+ pitches...he'll finish the 9th if LeGenius stays true to form.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:07 PM
Cueto is making these double plays look easier than they should be lol

No strikeouts, three walks and getting behind a lot of hitters. But somehow he's been pitch efficient and getting out of these jams. I'll take it, no matter how unpretty.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:08 PM
Lewis flies out to left.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:10 PM
Phillips flies out to center. 2 outs.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 08:10 PM
St. Louis fans' booing is almost cute. By far the least intimidating group of fans in sports.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 08:11 PM
That's 110...it's time to unload on one Joey.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 08:13 PM
Carp isn't and hasn't fooled Joey all night.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 08:14 PM
Carp isn't and hasn't fooled Joey all night.Yeah, he'd probably be better off walking him.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:14 PM
Another great AB. Votto singles to center.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:14 PM
Votto is simply an amazing hitter when he's locked in.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 08:15 PM
Maybe Votto is getting locked in again.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:15 PM
Boggs warming up for the Cards.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:15 PM
Rolen grounds into a FC at short. 0-0 mid 8th.

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 08:18 PM
Boggs warming up for the Cards.His spot bats 4th next inning and he's at 119 pitches. Even LaGenius won't leave him in if they get a runner on.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:19 PM
Rasmus lines a single to right.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:24 PM
Molina sacrifices the runner to 2nd. 1 out.

Kc61
07-04-2011, 08:24 PM
Sac bunt. Cards announcer says Volquez makes the play.

Kc61
07-04-2011, 08:25 PM
Dusty should put Bray in here.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:25 PM
Schumaker flies out to center. Runner to 3rd. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:26 PM
Mark Hamilton pinch hitting

WebScorpion
07-04-2011, 08:27 PM
Mark Hamilton pinch hittingDude strikes out a lot. ;)

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:28 PM
Ugh. Infield hit dribbler and the Cards take the lead. Close play at 1st.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:29 PM
Great effort by Rolen on that play.

edabbs44
07-04-2011, 08:29 PM
Hell of a play by Rolen to even make it close.

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:29 PM
Losing a game on a hit like that is unbelievable. So disheartening.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 08:30 PM
Reds luck this year has been zero.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 08:30 PM
Bruce. Razor. Stubbs.

Someone step up.

Kc61
07-04-2011, 08:31 PM
A lights out reliever was called for here. Bray should have been in followed by a righty if needed.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 08:31 PM
Johnny Cueto I salute you.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:31 PM
Theriot grounds out to 2nd. 1-0 Cards after 8.

Ron Madden
07-04-2011, 08:31 PM
This game aint over yet.

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:31 PM
A lights out reliever was called for here. Bray should have been in followed br a righty if needed.

Couldn't ask for more from Cueto there. It was a fluke hit.

PuffyPig
07-04-2011, 08:32 PM
Broken bat infield single.

We just can't catch a break.

Rolen made a sensational play to mkae it close.

If Hamilton runs over the bag it's not even close. He slides and touches the bag with his trailing hand.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:32 PM
Couldn't ask for more from Cueto there. It was a fluke hit.

Can't ask for more from Cueto. But can ask for more from the offense.

This will remind me of the second Rays' game last week. People will talk about how tough it is to lose a game like that. But if you don't score runs...

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 08:33 PM
Reds luck this year has been zero.

Correction: Reds offense this year has been zero.

Any offense at all today against a 7-loss pitcher and all that run does is ruin Cueto's shutout. Instead it becomes a 1-0 game winner. But at least Walt is happy with what they have.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:33 PM
Fernando Salas in to pitch

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:33 PM
This game aint over yet.

You're right. Carpenter's out, so the Reds have a good chance here.

Kc61
07-04-2011, 08:34 PM
Couldn't ask for more from Cueto there. It was a fluke hit.

I don't blame Cueto. I disagree with leaving him in there. If you have lights out guys in the pen, you use them there. Cueto had had enough IMO.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 08:34 PM
Correction: Reds offense this year has been zero.

Any offense at all today against a 7-loss pitcher and all that run does is ruin Cueto's shutout. Instead it becomes a 1-0 game winner. But at least Walt is happy with what they have.

The team that has scored the most runs in the league has an offense that has been zero?

At what point does one start reporting this type of post to Boss?

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:35 PM
Bruce strikes out swinging.

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:36 PM
Correction: Reds offense this year has been zero.

Any offense at all today against a 7-loss pitcher and all that run does is ruin Cueto's shutout. Instead it becomes a 1-0 game winner. But at least Walt is happy with what they have.

The Reds lead the NL in runs scored. They have scored over four runs in a higher percentage of their games than any other team in the NL. I'll admit they've been bad the past couple of weeks, but overall, the offense has been really good this year.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 08:36 PM
The offense is in a horrible slump. At some point, they have to catch fire. Well, I keep telling myself that anyway.

OldXOhio
07-04-2011, 08:36 PM
Dear Jay, they are pitching you outside. You will not be able to pull the ball without rolling over.

RedsManRick
07-04-2011, 08:36 PM
Cueto with zero strikeouts. Don't get me wrong, I love the ER total, but I'm just a touch concerned about his ability to keep this up while allowing so many balls in play.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 08:37 PM
The team that has scored the most runs in the league has an offense that has been zero?

At what point does one start reporting this type of post to Boss?

Seriously? This offense has been good? Don't worry, I'm sure the reds will score 9 runs once this week so the "our offense is just fine" crowd can keep defending it.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:38 PM
Hernandez strikes out looking.

redsfaninbsg
07-04-2011, 08:38 PM
Pitch is a foot inside, my God.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2011, 08:39 PM
Dear Jay, they are pitching you outside. You will not be able to pull the ball without rolling over.


He is not listening. Blame youth all you want....if you are not going to adjust, you will continue to slump.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:40 PM
Another marginal pitch called a strike

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:40 PM
That strike two to Stubbs was awful. This umpire is in a hurry.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 08:40 PM
Lame.

Reds Fanatic
07-04-2011, 08:40 PM
Stubbs flies out to right. Painful loss to start the series.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:41 PM
That strike two to Stubbs was awful. This umpire is in a hurry.

Gameday shows it as being a strike

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:41 PM
Gameday shows it as being a strike

MLB.tv's pitch f/x data had it as a ball.

CTA513
07-04-2011, 08:41 PM
1-2-3 for Mr. Salas

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:43 PM
Gameday shows it as being a strike

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation.php-pitchSel=477569&game=gid_2011_07_04_cinmlb_slnmlb_1&batterX=62&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3.gif

Pitch #4

PuffyPig
07-04-2011, 08:43 PM
I don't blame Cueto. I disagree with leaving him in there. If you have lights out guys in the pen, you use them there. Cueto had had enough IMO.

Many posters criticized bring Bray in to face Damon last week in a similiar situation. In each case, a fluke hit sealed the deal.

Noy much you can do about that.

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:44 PM
Many posters criticized bring Bray in to face Damon last week in a similiar situation. In each case, a fluke hit sealed the deal.

Noy much you can do about that.

Sometimes fluke hits happen. That's how it goes.

Phhhl
07-04-2011, 08:45 PM
Sometimes fluke hits happen. That's how it goes.

You have to score a run to win. Both teams were pathetic today.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:45 PM
Many posters criticized bring Bray in to face Damon last week in a similiar situation. In each case, a fluke hit sealed the deal.

Noy much you can do about that.

Cueto had zero strikeouts today. None. Zip.

If that were a Cards' pitcher, you'd be talking about how much of a fluke it is that nobody scored.

That a run scored on a fluke infield hit isn't luck, it's inevitability.

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:46 PM
You have to score a run to win. Both teams were pathetic today.

Yep. Neither pitcher was all that great (3 K 1 BB for Carpenter, 0 K 3 BB for Cueto). This was just an all-around display of terrible hitting.

Screwball
07-04-2011, 08:46 PM
You have to score a run to win. Both teams were pathetic today.

Pathetic? The starting pitchers out there weren't exactly chopped liver.

PuffyPig
07-04-2011, 08:47 PM
Seriously? This offense has been good? Don't worry, I'm sure the reds will score 9 runs once this week so the "our offense is just fine" crowd can keep defending it.

If your not FCB, you must be his "love" child........

Now, IIRC, FCB lost his "firstborn" in a number of bets he lost throughout his tenure on this board.

So, I'm guessing you were raised by gypies, or perhaps wolves?

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:47 PM
http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation.php-pitchSel=477569&game=gid_2011_07_04_cinmlb_slnmlb_1&batterX=62&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3.gif

Pitch #4

I'm not going to debate the merits of which one is right or which one is wrong, but their online strike zone showed it as being on the corner. Either way, you realize we're talking a difference of no more than a couple of inches. When you're umpiring and a baseball is coming in at 95 MPH, being off by no more than 2-3 inches isn't really much to quibble with.

PuffyPig
07-04-2011, 08:49 PM
Cueto had zero strikeouts today. None. Zip.

If that were a Cards' pitcher, you'd be talking about how much of a fluke it is that nobody scored.

That a run scored on a fluke infield hit isn't luck, it's inevitability.

I agree that the lack of K's is strange, but you can get away with that when you have a 11-2 GB/FB ratio.

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:50 PM
I'm not going to debate the merits of which one is right or which one is wrong, but their online strike zone showed it as being on the corner. Either way, you realize we're talking a difference of no more than a couple of inches. When you're umpiring and a baseball is coming in at 95 MPH, being off by no more than 2-3 inches isn't really much to quibble with.

All missed strikes and balls are usually missed by just a few inches. Even the worst, like the one that went against Votto against the Rays last week --

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/solomocm/VottoStrike3.jpg

-- are just a matter of a few inches. Votto's was marked as being six inches outside. By that argument, we should never complain about a missed strike or ball, since it was just a matter of a few inches.

Image credit goes to RedsZone poster Homer Bailey.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:51 PM
I agree that the lack of K's is strange, but you can get away with that when you have a 11-2 GB/FB ratio.

The groundballs help the cause, won't deny that. But even so, when you have 30+ balls go into play, the odds are at least a few runs are going to score.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:52 PM
All missed strikes and balls are usually missed by just a few inches. Even the worst, like the one that went against Votto against the Rays last week -- http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g413/solomocm/VottoStrike3.jpg -- are just a matter of a few inches. Votto's was marked as being six inches outside. By that argument, we should never complain about a missed strike or ball, since it was just a matter of a few inches.

That one was more than half a foot and in the other batter's box. That is one that is truly "awful."

But a couple inches is really, really pushing it. And yes, since you brought it up, I think fans complain about umpires too much. Missing some pitches by a couple inches is impractical to expect otherwise.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 08:54 PM
If your not FCB, you must be his "love" child........

Now, IIRC, FCB lost his "firstborn" in a number of bets he lost throughout his tenure on this board.

So, I'm guessing you were raised by gypies, or perhaps wolves?

I don't bet ... Unless I'm in Reno.

Honestly, how anyone can just shrug this off as running into a good pitcher is beyond me. Explain every other game then. This team isn't losing 11-9 games. It really isn't.

signalhome
07-04-2011, 08:55 PM
That one was more than half a foot and in the other batter's box. That is one that is truly "awful."

But a couple inches is really, really pushing it. And yes, since you brought it up, I think fans complain about umpires too much. Missing some pitches by a couple inches is impractical to expect otherwise.

Of course calls are going to be missed. That they're close doesn't change that some are wrong. I never once implied the Reds lost the game because of that call, I simply said it was bad call, as the Pitch F/X data shows. I agree that too often fans blame games on umpires, and it's something I really try to avoid. I will, however, speak up when I think an umpire missed a call.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2011, 08:58 PM
You could say the game was lost when Bruce missed the hanger in the 1st inning. You could say that since there really was no other inning where they threatened much at all.

Brutus
07-04-2011, 08:59 PM
Of course calls are going to be missed. That they're close doesn't change that some are wrong. I never once implied the Reds lost the game because of that call, I simply said it was bad call, as the Pitch F/X data shows. I agree that too often fans blame games on umpires, and it's something I really try to avoid. I will, however, speak up when I think an umpire missed a call.

And that's fine. I'm just pointing out that not all measures showed it being out of the zone. Some did (as you showed) and another one didn't (as I referenced).

But the Votto call, according to the Pitch F/X on the Brooks' site, shows that pitch as being 9-10 inches off the plate. So that's one that truly is worth haggling over :)

traderumor
07-04-2011, 09:10 PM
I'm starting to think that the steroid era poisoned the well for a lot of followers of this game, making it appear that scoring runs in MLB is easy, and if it is a low scoring game, its due to poor offense.

I'm still sticking to the idea that losing so many close games in bizarre fashion will be corrected in the second half of the season.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2011, 09:12 PM
I'm starting to think that the steroid era poisoned the well for a lot of followers of this game, making it appear that scoring runs in MLB is easy, and if it is a low scoring game, its due to poor offense.

I'm still sticking to the idea that losing so many close games in bizarre fashion will be corrected in the second half of the season.


Did they try any hit and runs? Some other way to manufacture runs?

signalhome
07-04-2011, 09:14 PM
Did they try any hit and runs? Some other way to manufacture runs?

The best way to manufacture runs is to simply not make outs. That is where the Reds failed today.

PuffyPig
07-04-2011, 09:17 PM
You could say the game was lost when Bruce missed the hanger in the 1st inning. You could say that since there really was no other inning where they threatened much at all.

How about that HR that was hauled back

traderumor
07-04-2011, 09:18 PM
Did they try any hit and runs? Some other way to manufacture runs?Yea, Stubbs was running with Renteria up, avoided the DP, but brought up Cueto. Really, only Bruce hit the ball hard all night on either side. I guess both offenses just suck ;)

reds44
07-04-2011, 09:19 PM
Everything is fine.

PuffyPig
07-04-2011, 09:19 PM
I don't bet ... Unless I'm in Reno.

Honestly, how anyone can just shrug this off as running into a good pitcher is beyond me. Explain every other game then. This team isn't losing 11-9 games. It really isn't.

Look, we are all frustrated in losing a 1-0 game, but when the team is leading the league in runs scored, it's hard to imagine that they have abeen a "zero offense all year". They must be scoring sometimes.

traderumor
07-04-2011, 09:28 PM
Everything is fine.Nope, they keep on losing close games, and here lately, in bizarre fashion. Hey, we could return to the style of ball the Brewers are playing, where you lose close games like you're playing in a slow pitch softball league. I'm not sure there is a recipe that fixes losing significantly more one run games than you win when it isn't a bullpen issue. What do we do, get more "clutch" hitters?

Brutus
07-04-2011, 09:33 PM
I'm starting to think that the steroid era poisoned the well for a lot of followers of this game, making it appear that scoring runs in MLB is easy, and if it is a low scoring game, its due to poor offense.

I'm still sticking to the idea that losing so many close games in bizarre fashion will be corrected in the second half of the season.

I think it has to do with the fact that nearly a quarter of the Reds' runs came in the first two weeks of the season.

They've been a mildly-above-average offense since the first two weeks, scoring about 4.3 runs since that blazing beginning (MLB average this year is 4.19). I think they're a good offense, but they've done little since then to show as being a great offense.

I don't think the post-steroid era has a lot to do with it. That's been a process that's happened over the last 3-4 years and people have adjusted their paradigm.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 09:38 PM
Give me 3 better offenses in the NL than the Reds Brutus, and please show your work.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 09:38 PM
Look, we are all frustrated in losing a 1-0 game, but when the team is leading the league in runs scored, it's hard to imagine that they have abeen a "zero offense all year". They must be scoring sometimes.

They are ... and I'm sure they'll bust out a 10-3 win on this road trip eventually. But those once-a-week, stat-padding outbursts hardly a solid offense make. Tonight was frustrating, yes, ss they didn't come remotely close to scoring all night against a seven-loss pitcher. But to use this game as the exception, or an outlier in an otherwise robust string of healthy offensive production games is folly.

Really, this team can afford to squander pitching gems like I can afford to buy a yacht in Cabo san Lucas.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2011, 09:40 PM
How about that HR that was hauled back

OK...two instances. :D

Brutus
07-04-2011, 09:43 PM
Give me 3 better offenses in the NL than the Reds Brutus, and please show your work.

I already showed my work. I'm not getting into this.

The Reds' overall runs per game is inflated from a blazing hot start. It's since leveled off and the numbers show that. Nearly 100 of the 405 runs scored were done in the first two weeks. I showed my work and that's my point: that the Reds' offense is good (above average) but has leveled off and is not as good as the overall number indicates.

I stated my case and should require no further elaboration for my stance. That is a pretty clear position, is it not? You certainly were not confused by what I said.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 09:46 PM
Give me 3 better offenses in the NL than the Reds Brutus, and please show your work.

You can worship stats all you want. But here are three offenses that actually work in real life, not on paper, that I'd take over the Reds right now:

Rockies
Cardinals (with or without Pujuls)
Brewers

And I'd throw the Phillies in there also. They know how to hit when it matters.

Go ahead, pull out the smoke and mirrors to show that the Reds are better than the teams I just listed. In real baseball games, on the field, I'll take those offenses every single day.

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 09:48 PM
I already showed my work. I'm not getting into this.

The Reds' overall runs per game is inflated from a blazing hot start. It's since leveled off and the numbers show that. Nearly 100 of the 405 runs scored were done in the first two weeks. I showed my work and that's my point: that the Reds' offense is good (above average) but has leveled off and is not as good as the overall number indicates.

I stated my case and should require no further elaboration for my stance. That is a pretty clear position, is it not? You certainly were not confused by what I said.

How about 3 teams that have been better?

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 09:48 PM
You can worship stats all you want. But here are three offenses that actually work in real life, not on paper, that I'd take over the Reds right now:

Rockies
Cardinals (with or without Pujuls)
Brewers

And I'd throw the Phillies in there also. They know how to hit when it matters.

Go ahead, pull out the smoke and mirrors to show that the Reds are better than the teams I just listed. In real baseball games, on the field, I'll take those offenses every single day.

Ok, why do those teams have a better offense than the Reds?

Brutus
07-04-2011, 09:51 PM
How about 3 teams that have been better?

It's a pointless question. I refuse to answer because it has absolutely nothing to do with the Reds. What does it matter who may or may not be better?

The point is the Reds are not winning a lot of games and do not have a great offense (or for that matter a great pitching staff). To win more games, they need to upgrade best they can. Since pitching is harder to come by, it's easier to find upgrades for one of at least one or two positions right now than it likely is to find the ace they need on the mound.

Either way... this is a silly question. I'm not seeking to trade offenses. That's neither practical nor relevant. I'm seeking for the Reds to make upgrades to a unit that clearly has not been much more than slightly above average for the last 85% of the year.

Your question, again for emphasis, is pointless. It's not even relevant and I'm not going to answer it because it will get away from the actual heart of the debate.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-04-2011, 09:53 PM
Ok, why do those teams have a better offense than the Reds?

1. Because they're not easily shut down for weeks at a time.

2. Because most of them have legitimate No. 4 hitters and not AARP candidates who enter the All-Star break with 4 home runs.

3. Because they can function even if one or two of the players in their lineups are in slumps

4. Because they don't score 10 runs in a game and then call it a week, not to be seen again for another 6-7 games

5. Because they don't have black-hole strings in their lineup with 5-6 automatic outs like the Reds do (4. Rolen 5. Bruce 6. Stubbs 7. catcher 8. Janish/Renteria 9. pitcher)

kaldaniels
07-04-2011, 09:55 PM
It's a pointless question. I refuse to answer because it has absolutely nothing to do with the Reds. What does it matter who may or may not be better?

The point is the Reds are not winning a lot of games and do not have a great offense (or for that matter a great pitching staff). To win more games, they need to upgrade best they can. Since pitching is harder to come by, it's easier to find upgrades for one of at least one or two positions right now than it likely is to find the ace they need on the mound.

Either way... this is a silly question. I'm not seeking to trade offenses. That's neither practical nor relevant. I'm seeking for the Reds to make upgrades to a unit that clearly has not been much more than slightly above average for the last 85% of the year.

Your question, again for emphasis, is pointless. It's not even relevant and I'm not going to answer it because it will get away from the actual heart of the debate.

With the debate going on about the offense Brutus, it is not a pointless question. Who do you think is better, and why? Don't consider this a bait for you to answer b/c I don't expect you to...but obviously you refusing to throw out 3 teams in the NL that you feel are better offensively than the Reds speaks volumes.

I'm not saying the offense does not have room to improve, but the numbers show they have been the most productive in the league to this point.

I can't believe you dimissed that question as pointless by the way...sorry.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2011, 09:56 PM
1. Because they're not easily shut down for weeks at a time.

2. Because most of them have legitimate No. 4 hitters and not AARP candidates who enter the All-Star break with 4 home runs.

3. Because they can function even if one or two of the players in their lineups are in slumps

4. Because they don't score 10 runs in a game and then call it a week, not to be seen again for another 6-7 games


Just when I thought you had lost me on the schedule factor...you pull me back in with this.