I'll pass on both shields and jimenez

[joe51391]

I was just looking at there stats and if any one of those guys come here it will be no better than what we have shield gave up a league leading 34 hrs last year......remind you of anyone caugh caugh arroyo and jimenez gives up way to many walks....volquez caugh caugh. the reds need to save there prospects and go after pence. I would give up stubbs alonso grandal and volquez for him. maybe I'm overpaying but that is how much i value him in our lineup hitting in between votto and bruce plus heisey becomes my everyday cf. so if you look at it what are the reds out of at that point sure they give up alot but its guys that are all blocked and it makes the lineup complete for years to come

[mroby85]

I was just looking at there stats and if any one of those guys come here it will be no better than what we have shield gave up a league leading 34 hrs last year......remind you of anyone caugh caugh arroyo and jimenez gives up way to many walks....volquez caugh caugh. the reds need to save there prospects and go after pence. I would give up stubbs alonso grandal and volquez for him. maybe I'm overpaying but that is how much i value him in our lineup hitting in between votto and bruce plus heisey becomes my everyday cf. so if you look at it what are the reds out of at that point sure they give up alot but its guys that are all blocked and it makes the lineup complete for years to come

2.60 ERA in the AL East
145 K's in 148 innings
7 CGS
16 QS

Not really reminding me of Arroyo, and hard to say he's not better than anyone in the rotation. That being said, I think Pence would help this team more right now and would be a great pickup.

[joe51391]

sure he has good numbers now but he has givin up 15hrs and he would be coming to a new league and pitching in a smaller park not a good combo look up eric milton trust me if they get him he will not be good here

[bshall2105]

sure he has good numbers now but he has givin up 15hrs and he would be coming to a new league and pitching in a smaller park not a good combo look up eric milton trust me if they get him he will not be good here

You're right, a move from the AL East to the NL Central would be terrible for Shields. I'm willing to bet the reason he gives up so many home runs is because he's in the same division as the Yankees, Red Sox, and the Blue Jays who also hit a ton of homers.

[mroby85]

sure he has good numbers now but he has givin up 15hrs and he would be coming to a new league and pitching in a smaller park not a good combo look up eric milton trust me if they get him he will not be good here

Eric Milton had a 4.75 the year before they overpaid him. He also didn't pitch in the AL East, only had 160 k's in 200 innings, and his HR's allowed decreased from 43 to 40 when he came to GABP.

[Sean_CaseyRules]

The only way I'm passing on these guys is if we can't find offense.

A good friend of mine talked some sense into me, we need pitching, but maybe not this year, but get it while its hot. Might not be there in a year or so.

I say look for a big bat, if nothing is out there, plan for next year or 2 and get one of them.

[Zimmers]

If shields is available you go get him. I will be happy with this deal as long as we don't give up mez. Alonso and whoever else just don't give up mez.

[lidspinner]

I know this sounds like fantasy land and MLB the show but I'd not worry about either pitcher and go strong after Beltran. You wouldn't have to sell the farm and he would protect Votto and vise versa.

Then if the stars align just right, then goget your pitcher. Whichever one you want. Both would be a great find, I'd prefer Sheilds but that's me.

Get those 2 guys and sit back and watch this team win the central. CB would bs silly to sign anywhere but here. We have the hitting and pitching to not just compete but to dominate the central for the next 3 years.

Beltran has also made comments referring to his days in Houston. He loved the small market atmosphere compared to the big apple. What's not to like about cincy? Great starting pitching.

Shields
Cueto
Bailey
Arroyo
Leake/wood/Willis/volquez

Great hitters for AVG and power and great lineup, not to mention defense.

Stubbs/Heisey
Cozart
Votto
Beltran
Bruce
Rolen/Frazier/francisco
BPhil
Hanigan/mes

What is not to like about that future? A few of those guys are gone...Stubbs or Heisey, Ramon, a few pitchers and a few prospects.

We still would have Masset/bray/lecure/chapman/ to hold down the fort in the pen. Losing coco gives us some freedom to sign Beltran. I would hope the added attendance gives us some flexibility as well to sign votto long term.

I just don't see a weak link in that armour. That's a team that can kill you in multiple facets of the game and still allow for young guys on te farm time to develop. I'd say Billy Hamilton should be here in 3 years. Not to mention our young OF'ers.

The future looks bright with the above mentioned team. Beltran would love GABP.

What do you think it takes to sign Beltran? I don't think he asks for anything more than 5 years. Would he take a 3-4 year deal?

[bshall2105]

I believe Vottomatic said that Beltran would veto any trade here

[webbbj]

this offense is fine.

the pitching is good enough to get to the playoffs.

the pitching is not good enough to win in the playoffs.

get shields. its about the only trade that has ever come up in this forum that makes any sense whatsoever.

shields is better than arroyo has ever been. and the HR thing isnt as big of a deal in that division guys are gonna hit HRs and they have a DH. Shields will dominate over here.

[Trace's Daddy]

this offense is fine.

the pitching is good enough to get to the playoffs.

the pitching is not good enough to win in the playoffs.

get shields. its about the only trade that has ever come up in this forum that makes any sense whatsoever.

shields is better than arroyo has ever been. and the HR thing isnt as big of a deal in that division guys are gonna hit HRs and they have a DH. Shields will dominate over here.

That's what I'm saying. The goal is to win in the playoffs - not just get there. For that, you must have stellar pitching.

[mr. red]

sure he has good numbers now but he has givin up 15hrs and he would be coming to a new league and pitching in a smaller park not a good combo look up eric milton trust me if they get him he will not be good here

Arroyo has given up 26 HR, Volquez 15, Leake 11, and Wood 10. Coming from the AL to the NL will not hurt Shields at all. The Rays have also scored 2 runs or less in 9 of his starts.

I'd like to see the Reds go after Shields and somehow get Damon from TB too.

[HatchMo]

Arroyo has given up 26 HR, Volquez 15, Leake 11, and Wood 10. Coming from the AL to the NL will not hurt Shields at all. The Rays have also scored 2 runs or less in 9 of his starts.

I'd like to see the Reds go after Shields and somehow get Damon from TB too.

In the NL he would have to play the field... i don't want him.

[brm7675]

It's all moot because Walt isn't going to do anything major, watch for him to make a few minor deals or tweeks at best.

[abish1572]

I was just looking at there stats and if any one of those guys come here it will be no better than what we have shield gave up a league leading 34 hrs last year......remind you of anyone caugh caugh arroyo and jimenez gives up way to many walks....volquez caugh caugh. the reds need to save there prospects and go after pence. I would give up stubbs alonso grandal and volquez for him. maybe I'm overpaying but that is how much i value him in our lineup hitting in between votto and bruce plus heisey becomes my everyday cf. so if you look at it what are the reds out of at that point sure they give up alot but its guys that are all blocked and it makes the lineup complete for years to come

agree with everything but the pence thing


sure he has good numbers now but he has givin up 15hrs and he would be coming to a new league and pitching in a smaller park not a good combo look up eric milton trust me if they get him he will not be good here

agreed


You're right, a move from the AL East to the NL Central would be terrible for Shields. I'm willing to bet the reason he gives up so many home runs is because he's in the same division as the Yankees, Red Sox, and the Blue Jays who also hit a ton of homers.

agreed


It's all moot because Walt isn't going to do anything major, watch for him to make a few minor deals or tweeks at best.

Like i said in the other thread. Well put:thumbup:

[joe51391]

abish would you want pence and what would you offer to the stros if you want him

[Vottomatic]

I believe Vottomatic said that Beltran would veto any trade here

I read something somewhere, maybe mlbtraderumors.com, that Beltran wanted to stay on the East Coast because he owns a house there. Maybe he has a family and wants to stay close? But I read it was either the Red Sox, Yanks, or Phillies that he would grant being traded to.