More proof why Dusty is a poor manager

[brm7675]

The job of the manager of a baseball team is to put the best possible lineup out there each and every night with the objective to be to win. Well lets review tonights game as just another example of Dusty worrying more about how his players "view" him over winning. The midwest right now is experienceing one of the most outlandish heat waves in HISTORY. Your "scheduled" starting pitcher is battling Mono which can only be made worse by these conditions. So....what does Dusty do...be dam with knowledege, put Bronson out there. Where he could have skipped him and kept the other pitchers on their 5 day rotation and probably put this team in a better position to win. I am continually amazed at either how stupid Walt is to sit back and allow this man to continue to manage this team or how out of touch Walt himself is.

[R_Webb18]

i think they should combine threads that say the same stuff

[mroby85]

The job of the manager of a baseball team is to put the best possible lineup out there each and every night with the objective to be to win. Well lets review tonights game as just another example of Dusty worrying more about how his players "view" him over winning. The midwest right now is experienceing one of the most outlandish heat waves in HISTORY. Your "scheduled" starting pitcher is battling Mono which can only be made worse by these conditions. So....what does Dusty do...be dam with knowledege, put Bronson out there. Where he could have skipped him and kept the other pitchers on their 5 day rotation and probably put this team in a better position to win. I am continually amazed at either how stupid Walt is to sit back and allow this man to continue to manage this team or how out of touch Walt himself is.

I really expected this to be about the suicide squeeze on a 2-2 count with Cairo up who is batting .407 with RISP, lol.

[smoke6]

I really expected this to be about the suicide squeeze on a 2-2 count with Cairo up who is batting .407 with RISP, lol.


Me too.....ridiculous call on Dusty's part.

[mu4103]

Hopefully Dusty does not manage for his ego. It certainly doesn't get fed by Reds Fans.

[mroby85]

Hopefully Dusty does not manage for his ego. It certainly doesn't get fed by Reds Fans.

I don't dislike Dusty, but that decision was stupiid imo.

[kfm]

Yes, I thought I thought it would be about that also. I am by no means a Dusty basher, but that was just plain stupid.

[mikemo14]

How about yyou have a pitcher throwing batting practice, but still manages to give you 5 innings and 2 runs , who has mono on a night where the temp is 105 degrees and your offense scores two runs a game and you are down 2-1 and you send him out to start the sixth. Amazing

[mroby85]

How about yyou have a pitcher throwing batting practice, but still manages to give you 5 innings and 2 runs , who has mono on a night where the temp is 105 degrees and your offense scores two runs a game and you are down 2-1 and you send him out to start the sixth. Amazing

How bout 7? lol

[abish1572]

anyone see that horrible bunt attempt? LoL Cairo couldve knocked in lewis, but dusty :rolleyes:

[mroby85]

anyone see that horrible bunt attempt? LoL Cairo couldve knocked in lewis, but dusty :rolleyes:

I thought he did a really good job at even putting a bat on the ball considering where the pitch is. It ended up not mattering, but at that point he at least didn't hang the runner out to dry.

[abish1572]

I thought he did a really good job at even putting a bat on the ball considering where the pitch is. It ended up not mattering, but at that point he at least didn't hang the runner out to dry.

point is, why bunt with 2 strikes? Cairo even asked dusty that when he went back to the DO.

[mroby85]

point is, why bunt with 2 strikes? Cairo even asked dusty that when he went back to the DO.

I agree 100%,thought you were saying Cairo did a poor job bunting at it. I misunderstood your point.

[redram]

I really expected this to be about the suicide squeeze on a 2-2 count with Cairo up who is batting .407 with RISP, lol.

This was one of two things and either way shows how pathetic Baker is.
1. He knew the count and made this ridiculous call or
2. He did not know the count in this AB in game one of another Big Series

AND The fact he keeps throwing Bronson out there knowing he is SICK is amazing BUT to run him out there to start the inning after we took the lead was just baffling. Anything this guys does anymore does not surprise me and when we do win it is not of his doing but in spite of him.

[Jefferson24]

The guy is an idiot!

[mr. red]

When Dusty first got here, I admit, I was excited. He was an established manager and brought a new fire and enthusiasm to Cincinnati baseball. However, as time has gone on, my opinion of him has changed. I don't hate him, but he is definitely wearing me down. I like how he is an aggressive manager in the running game and I agree that we have to hold the players accountable, but there are times when it is on Dusty.

Dusty seems to have lost the passion and desire to win that was there last year. And the players have too. That ball that Votto hit down the first base line tonight and the 1B tossed it to the P, made me realize that this team is not going all out. Votto was jogging down the line on a ball where he had a decent shot of beating the throw. Phillips continues to go into HR trot and be held to long singles. We don't have anyone, ANYONE, in the middle of our order to drive in runs. I think that the only way we make the playoffs this year is if we get Carlos Beltran and take Arroyo out of the rotation. I think Dusty could stick around, but that does not mean I have faith in him.

[Krawhitham]

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_07_22_atlmlb_cinmlb_1&mode=recap&c_id=cin


The best non-homer chance for Cincinnati to score was in the second while leading, 1-0. Lewis drew a leadoff walk, stole second and went to third on a one-out wild pitch. In an odd play for a 2-2 count, Miguel Cairo was ordered to drop a squeeze bunt as Lewis broke for home. The ball skirted foul toward the first-base dugout, a strikeout for Cairo.

"That was a situation where I didn't trust the scoreboard," Baker said. "That first pitch, I thought it was a ball. The first thing you learn is don't trust the scoreboard. I didn't see [the umpire] signal. I thought the count was 3-1 instead of 2-2. It was my fault right there."

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_07_22_atlmlb_cinmlb_1&mode=recap&c_id=cin

[redram]

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_07_22_atlmlb_cinmlb_1&mode=recap&c_id=cin



http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_07_22_atlmlb_cinmlb_1&mode=recap&c_id=cin


And that statement by Dusty says it all. Don't trust the scoreboard? WOW just WOW

[BAKER12]

Not that any of you care, because the agenda here is to bash the manager and never, ever give him any credit. Dusty admitted that he should not have called for the squeeze. Unlike most managers and coaches he admitted that it was not a good call. It in truth did not cost the Reds the game, but thwarted momentum.

[mroby85]

Not that any of you care, because the agenda here is to bash the manager and never, ever give him any credit. Dusty admitted that he should not have called for the squeeze. Unlike most managers and coaches he admitted that it was not a good call. It in truth did not cost the Reds the game, but thwarted momentum.

That can't be said for sure. If he hits a sac fly instead of failing at the squeeze there you would go into the 9th with a 1 run lead. Cordero would then be entering the game instead of Massett. Also, I feel he made a terrible decision leaving Arroyo in too long. He was getting hit pretty hard all night, and was fortunate to get 6 innings 3 runs out of him, in my opinion. That being said, It's not all his fault, I just don't feel like he makes decisions that help your team win the game a lot of times.

[BAKER12]

The players love Dusty, they play hard for him and he has and will continue to have success as a manager.

The Owner likes him and he has a good relationship with the G.M. The Reds have accomplished more under Dusty than any manager in the last 15 years. Despite the wishes of some (message boarders for the most part) he is not gonna be fired.

A majority of those that constantly bash Dusty are not racists, simply people that are critical of all coaches and managers. Know it all types that never have actually been on a team or attempted to coach or manage one.

Anyone is a fool, if they do not believe a few people dislike Dusty because he is not white. That sadly is life in 2011 and probably always will be in this country.

I will continue to read this board and participate, but some that never contribute anything other than negative barbs and bashing of the manager should probably just go away.

[Krawhitham]

Not that any of you care, because the agenda here is to bash the manager and never, ever give him any credit. Dusty admitted that he should not have called for the squeeze. Unlike most managers and coaches he admitted that it was not a good call. It in truth did not cost the Reds the game, but thwarted momentum.

No he admitted he was wrong about the count not the choice to squeeze, if he had paid attention to the game (to know the correct count) he would have tried to squeeze a pitch sooner

[texasdave]

No he admitted he was wrong about the count not the choice to squeeze, if he had paid attention to the game (to know the correct count) he would have tried to squeeze a pitch sooner

That is correct. And if you were unsure of the count and wanted to put a play on wouldn't you just ask the umpire?

[Krawhitham]

The players love Dusty, they play hard for him and he has and will continue to have success as a manager.

Playing hard is not getting it down. They are 5 games back with 3 teams ahead of them. He is not really successful as a manger, he has won 1 Pennant in 18 years. He has only finished in 1st place 4 times in 18 years. That is while coaching 2 of the biggest roid users in the history of the game. In his last 8 seasons as a manager he is under .500. The only reason he was above .500 before that was Baroid

[BAKER12]

Playing hard is not getting it down. They are 5 games back with 3 teams ahead of them. He is not really successful as a manger, he has won 1 Pennant in 18 years. He has only finished in 1st place 4 times in 18 years. That is while coaching 2 of the biggest roid users in the history of the game. In his last 8 seasons as a manager he is under .500. The only reason he was above .500 before that was Baroid

You are one that I will place in the category of a Dusty Hater that he can not and will not ever please.

Good to know that Bonds and Sosa are the only two guys that used roids. Thanks for clearing that up. As well, just to clarify for you (since that is obviously needed) Dusty did not manage Sosa in his huge homer seasons.

Your definition of success as a manager please?

[malcontent]

And that statement by Dusty says it all. Don't trust the scoreboard? WOW just WOW
Baker simply asleep at the wheel.

Speier too.

[Vottomatic]

The managing of this team is pathetic.

Votto is started to look like he wants to be traded.

Ownership is clueless.

[helenkyle82]

The guy is an idiot!

:beerme:

[nux fan]

he is an abject moron

[markymark69]

Yes, I thought I thought it would be about that also. I am by no means a Dusty basher, but that was just plain stupid.

It is was a bad decision - a mistake that Dusty that admitted. But, of course I know all the posters and Dusty haters on RedsZone are perfect and have never made a mistake or done something stupid.

[mr. red]

The Owner likes him and he has a good relationship with the G.M. The Reds have accomplished more under Dusty than any manager in the last 15 years. Despite the wishes of some (message boarders for the most part) he is not gonna be fired.

I would attribute new ownership, upper management, and great scouting as contributions to our recent success. Is Dusty the worst manager out there? No. But, if a player was that complacent during a game (referring to the 2-2 squeeze), then it would be a much larger deal and the manager would come down on him.

[texasdave]

It is was a bad decision - a mistake that Dusty that admitted. But, of course I know all the posters and Dusty haters on RedsZone are perfect and have never made a mistake or done something stupid.

It's not so much that he forgot the count. It is the fact that he thought the count was one thing and looked at the scoreboard and saw something else. Common sense says you ask the ump what the count actually is.

[abish1572]

what about the other decisions he makes? Like keep putting masset in close ballgames?

How about not starting Heisey everyday? I give him credit for sending down volquez and janish, them dudes was hurting us badly

[markymark69]

That can't be said for sure. If he hits a sac fly instead of failing at the squeeze there you would go into the 9th with a 1 run lead. Cordero would then be entering the game instead of Massett. Also, I feel he made a terrible decision leaving Arroyo in too long. He was getting hit pretty hard all night, and was fortunate to get 6 innings 3 runs out of him, in my opinion. That being said, It's not all his fault, I just don't feel like he makes decisions that help your team win the game a lot of times.

If you want to play the if game - then lets play. If he gets the bunt down - it could have set up a big inning. If Drew Stubbs catches the home run it preserves the lead. If Nick Masset doesn't a throw a fastball to a fastball hitter looking for one it's probably not a home run.

If the Reds were better hitters w/RISP Dusty would have not had to revert to such a play to try to spark the team.

We all agree it wasn't a good call - Dusty faced the music and admitted his mistake - which is more that can be said for all the wrong assumptions and comments that people have written on this board.

As far as Arroyo - his pitch count was good - which is why he was left in there IMO. Again, if he pulls Arroyo and the bullpen blows it anyway (like they did). Then all the holier-than-thou's on here go back to blasting Dusty that he burning out the bullpen.

[markymark69]

what about the other decisions he makes? Like keep putting masset in close ballgames?

How about not starting Heisey everyday? I give him credit for sending down volquez and janish, them dudes was hurting us badly

Abish,
I feel like I need to let you in on something. A good percentage on this board think that anybody can close and actually want Masset to close. I also have correct you - Masset was not closing the game - it was tied.

Also, Heisey has been pretty much been playing everyday recently and the fortunes of this team haven't changed much. Heisey has decent numbers but he is isn't the end all, be all. He has 12 home runs - but five of them came in two games.

[mroby85]

If you want to play the if game - then lets play. If he gets the bunt down - it could have set up a big inning. If Drew Stubbs catches the home run it preserves the lead. If Nick Masset doesn't a throw a fastball to a fastball hitter looking for one it's probably not a home run.

If the Reds were better hitters w/RISP Dusty would have not had to revert to such a play to try to spark the team.

We all agree it wasn't a good call - Dusty faced the music and admitted his mistake - which is more that can be said for all the wrong assumptions and comments that people have written on this board.

As far as Arroyo - his pitch count was good - which is why he was left in there IMO. Again, if he pulls Arroyo and the bullpen blows it anyway (like they did). Then all the holier-than-thou's on here go back to blasting Dusty that he burning out the bullpen.

It's not like I made an outrageous "if". I didn't say If we had all the Braves players, and they had all the Reds players we would've won, lol. It's a legitimate point that the odds are you get a guy home from 3rd with Cairo up who is hitting .407 with RISP. Assuming that happens puts you to the 9th with a 1 run lead. Maybe i'm just being ridiculous, but I dont feel like its that outrageous of an IF to think about. Arroyo had been getting hit hard all night, and was fortunate to have only allowed 3 through 6. Someone on this thread was even saying that about sending him out in the 6th inning DURING the game, not hindsight. Then he was sent out in the 7th as well.

[markymark69]

It's not like I made an outrageous "if". I didn't say If we had all the Braves players, and they had all the Reds players we would've won, lol. It's a legitimate point that the odds are you get a guy home from 3rd with Cairo up who is hitting .407 with RISP. Assuming that happens puts you to the 9th with a 1 run lead. Maybe i'm just being ridiculous, but I dont feel like its that outrageous of an IF to think about. Arroyo had been getting hit hard all night, and was fortunate to have only allowed 3 through 6. Someone on this thread was even saying that about sending him out in the 6th inning DURING the game, not hindsight. Then he was sent out in the 7th as well.

Nor were any of my ifs outrageous. The point is there was no guarantee. Dusty screwed up - no question - I shook my head about the decision too - it was a mistake - it didn't necessarily cost them the game - because there was no guarantee Cairo was going to come through.

I can agree with you on Arroyo - but I understand the thought process - low pitch count - and he had the lead when he went back out for the seventh. Doesn't make him a poor manager.

[FireDusty]

You are one that I will place in the category of a Dusty Hater that he can not and will not ever please.

Good to know that Bonds and Sosa are the only two guys that used roids. Thanks for clearing that up. As well, just to clarify for you (since that is obviously needed) Dusty did not manage Sosa in his huge homer seasons.

Your definition of success as a manager please? Can you feel it all slipping away?

lol

You are trying defend something that cannot be defended.

Dusty has been here for 4 years and has a losing record.

Period. Done. End of story. Argument lost.

[BAKER12]

You are just too smart to argue with
Dusty can not change the color of his skin

[ervinsm84]

I was at the game last night, and we were all flabbergasted they squeezed there. We were actually stuck around a bunch of braves fans, and they just looked on in astonishment that Baker would ever squeeze there.

The squeeze call at that point in the game EVEN IF the count was 3-1, would have been pretty dumb. Its not the 8th inning of a 1 run or tie game where scoring 1 run increases your win chances dramatically. It literally would have been early in the game, on a 3-1 count for a guy whos been hitting really well with a favorable count, and not having the pitcher up next. Sure if it was janish up with with the pitcher on deck, it might, MIGHT, make sense to squeeze there on a 3-1 count. Not with cairo at the juncture of the game.

Then you add in that he had the count wrong? I mean, get out of here.

He also made two massive mistakes that we noted as the game was going on last night.

1. He left Lewis in to face the lefty reliever in. Yes lewis, the guy who had a hit homerun in the game, should have been taken out. His splits are pretty bad against lefties, and more importantly, Johnny Gomes is a lefty killer.

2. He then brought Gomes in for Lewis, making a double switch later in the game, knowing full well that the Braves dominant closer is right handed. Sounds like a genius plan to put in the guy who sucks against RHP and take out the guy who does well againt RHP. Thank you Dusty Baker.

[FireDusty]

You are just too smart to argue with
Dusty can not change the color of his skinThat's what liberals say when they have lost an argument. :laugh:

[Vottomatic]

You are just too smart to argue with
Dusty can not change the color of his skin

Wow. Glen in Mason, is that you?

Glen always pulls the race card in every argument when he calls in to WLW. Glen is one of the biggest racists I've ever listened to.

[Stray]

The squeeze last night was a really stupid call. Dusty knows better than that.

I was OK with putting a squeeze on with Cairo, you can trust him to put the bat on the ball, but the other side of that is that means you can trust him to usually get that run in without the squeeze. I guess I look at it like this, if you're comfortable enough with a batter to put a suicide on, you're probably comfortable enough for him to drive the run in without it...so when is the squeeze a good call? When the team needs a little boost, like what we needed.

But like I said, with 2 strikes it was a bad decision.

I think the Dusty hating is totally off the deep end on this board, but to each their own. I appreciate the good things he's done, and there have been many, but I also acknowledge that as the leader of a team that has grossly underachieved this year the blame has to fall on his shoulders, regardless of if it's right. If we are going to jump back in it we need everyone to be better, and that includes Dusty.

[BAKER12]

That's what liberals say when they have lost an argument. :laugh:

Did not know we were keeping score. It is impossible to discuss anything regarding Dusty Baker rationally with you. It's obvious you hate him for reasons far beyond baseball. Clean your white robe and get ready for your next rally.

[R_Webb18]

Can you feel it all slipping away?

lol

You are trying defend something that cannot be defended.

Dusty has been here for 5 years and has a losing record.

Period. Done. End of story. Argument lost.

that proves nothing. fyi

[Stray]

Does this have to turn into a race issue? I'm not saying that some fans aren't above hating on him because of that, but what exactly is the point of taking any argument on here in that direction?

Let's keep it baseball related.

[BAKER12]

I have determined that some on here have legit problems with Dusty for tactical decisions and lineups, etc. Others, that never, EVER say one positive word about the guy, do not like him because of his race. I am done with the topic, these guys can continue to hate on the man no matter what he does. No reason to spend my time conversing with haters.

[FireDusty]

Did not know we were keeping score. It is impossible to discuss anything regarding Dusty Baker rationally with you. It's obvious you hate him for reasons far beyond baseball. Clean your white robe and get ready for your next rally.

You are an idiot.

I'm black you dumbass.

I am related to a prominent politician in Cincinnati who had the audacity to be a black republican.

The most racist people in this country are Liberal Democrats who feel we can't do it ourselves and my own race.

[nux fan]

i have followed baseball closely for year and I cannot recall a dumber manager who says things like I forgot the count I thought the scoreboard was wrong etc

[mu4103]

Did not know we were keeping score. It is impossible to discuss anything regarding Dusty Baker rationally with you. It's obvious you hate him for reasons far beyond baseball. Clean your white robe and get ready for your next rally.

Baker12 you are accusing a life-long Reds' fan of being a racist because he does not think Dusty Baker is a good manager. He has used 0 arguments, as far as I can see that have anything to do with race. To me you are exposing your own racist biases. I do not think Dusty is a good manager because he does not reward on-field performance. His managing style is confusing, which must be confusing to the players.

[BAKER12]

You are an idiot.

I'm black you dumbass.

I am related to a prominent politician in Cincinnati who had the audacity to be a black republican.

The most racist people in this country are Liberal Democrats who feel we can't do it ourselves and my own race.

Dumbass? Now we are using bad words....
What's next, some cyber threats to beat me up?
This is now a political debate?
If so Uncle Tom should be your new screen name....

[gilpdawg]

And that statement by Dusty says it all. Don't trust the scoreboard? WOW just WOW

Scoreboard isn't official and it's wrong at least once a game, most games I attend. He screwed up, sure, but I buy the explanation.

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

[FireDusty]

Dumbass? Now we are using bad words....
What's next, some cyber threats to beat me up?
This is now a political debate?
If so Uncle Tom should be your new screen name....So I'm an Uncle Tom now because I'm a black man, with a good job, who can have rational thought?

You made it not a political debate but a racial one.

Oh, and now because I'm black...the next move must be that I'm going to make threats to beat you up.

You are the most racist person I have encountered on this forum, actually...the 1 and only racists I have encountered.

What is mind blowing, is that you teach our children and also coach them.

I have never used race in anything I have posted here. I have given an opinion about many things on the Reds. I have taken the stance that Dusty Baker is the wrong man for this job. I have backed that up with tangible examples of why. Most examples of why have been backed by references from other respected baseball people, among them Harold Reynolds (i guess he's another Uncle Tom because he's a black man with a good job)

You have replied with nothing but accusations of racism and in the process exposed yourself as one. You now call me an Uncle Tom because I guess I'm not "black enough" for you.

I know there must be at least one black man who teaches in your school. I think he would be very interested to know how you feel about his "level" of "blackness".

I won't use a racial slur to describe you. I will use an accepted description of what you are that can be used for any race. I will change the spelling just enough so that it post.

Arsehole.

And you teach and coach our children. :barf:

[BAKER12]

I'm done attempting to have a conversation with someone that continues to throw profanity and non truths my way.

With all your ranting and raving it is difficult to keep track of what is fact and what is fiction

I will go way over your head with some Jim Bouton Ball Four talk.

Jim Bouton having a civil rights debate with Elston Howard. Bouton was progressive and Howard was more than happy to agree with Richard Nixon about keeping his place in society.

I suggest we take this to a non baseball portion of the board and not bother others with our differences.

[ervinsm84]

it strikes me as a bit hypocritical this thread has gone on with no mention from a mod or what not, but i say something 1/10 as abrasive as whats been in here w/o profanity and end up with an infraction lol. Profanity, directly calling someone an idiot, calling someone an uncle tom, and the rest of the venom thats been spewed in here is pretty absurd.

seems standard i guess

ib4 this post gets an infraction

[redram]

it strikes me as a bit hypocritical this thread has gone on with no mention from a mod or what not, but i say something 1/10 as abrasive as whats been in here w/o profanity and end up with an infraction lol. Profanity, directly calling someone an idiot, calling someone an uncle tom, and the rest of the venom thats been spewed in here is pretty absurd.

seems standard i guess

ib4 this post gets an infraction

+1 From what I have been reading I would have thought one of them would have been Banned by now and his nick starts with a B

[Boss-Hog]

The next time you see nonsense like some of the later posts in this thread, please report it for moderators to review rather than stooping to the same level. If it's against the rules of board, we'll deal with it appropriately.