Mets @ Reds 7.25.11 Votto, Heisey out

[klw]

Wow here's an odd looking lineup. Not criticizing just saying it looks odd.

Stubbs 8,
Cairo 5,
Bruce 9,
Phillips 4,
Lewis 7,
Hernandez 2,
Frazier 3,
Janish 6,
Leake 1

vs the knuckleballer Mr. Dickey

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/07/25/reds-monday-lineup-votto-out/


Manger Dusty Baker had said he was going to rest Joey Votto sometime during the Mets series, and tonight is it.

“You’ve seen Joey lately, ain’t you?” Baker said. “He’s been struggling, so today was a day to give him off.”
...
“You’ve got to give him off sometime,” Baker said. “You could tell … his concentration, his quickness… I told him to come in late, maybe 5 or 5:30 (p.m.).”



Heisey is okay but sore.
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/07/25/reds-monday-lineup-votto-out/

Chris Heisey had an MRI after colliding with Drew Stubbs and banging into the outfield wall last night, while tracking a fly ball in the ninth inning. Stubbs made the catch.

Heisey is not in the lineup tonight but said he is OK.

“My shoulder is a little sore but I’m good to go,” he said.

[Brutus]

In other words, the Reds will score 8-10 runs tonight.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I'd have at least batted Leake 8th and Janish 9th. There's no situation I'd rather see Janish at the plate over Leake.

[Hap]

Glad to not see Jonny Gomes versus a knuckleballer. He would not do well, in my opinion.

[kaldaniels]

I'd have at least batted Leake 8th and Janish 9th. There's no situation I'd rather see Janish at the plate over Leake.

I posed the question in another thread...how much worse off would the Reds be if they just went with a 24 man roster and used Leake as a PH?

[Redsfan320]

I'd have at least batted Leake 8th and Janish 9th. There's no situation I'd rather see Janish at the plate over Leake.

Yup. Leake is an all-around better hitter. Period.

320

[redsfaninbsg]

Tonight could start a winning streak.

[OldXOhio]

Glad to not see Jonny Gomes versus a knuckleballer. He would not do well, in my opinion.

I think the writing's on the wall for Jonny this week. Nothing more than a hunch, but if Walt gets a LF, someone's gotta go. Lewis' LH bat off the bench makes him more of a commodity.

[OldXOhio]

Yup. Leake is an all-around better hitter. Period.

320

you do know PJ's going to now have at least 2 hits tonight, yes?

[redsfaninbsg]

Reyes F8

[redsfaninbsg]

Turner on via E6.

[kaldaniels]

Janish!

[redsfaninbsg]

Somehow, that's ruled a hit.

[RedsManRick]

Geez, Janish has completely fallen apart.

[Blitz Dorsey]

The official scorer sure blew that one. That should have been a clear error on Janish, not a hit. What is this, Little League? Sorry, that's called an error in professional baseball. Heck, even a high school shortstop would have made that play. What was the OS thinking?

[Big Klu]

Reds wearing their red jerseys again tonight.

[REDSEER]

Reds wearing their red jerseys again tonight.

Just noticed that...a little superstitious maybe?

[redsfaninbsg]

Beltran K's

[Blitz Dorsey]

I'd have at least batted Leake 8th and Janish 9th. There's no situation I'd rather see Janish at the plate over Leake.

Even if Dusty wanted to do that, he never would have because he wouldn't want anyone to think he was copying off LaRussa.

[mth123]

It kills the heart of the line-up, but sitting Votto against the Knuckleballer is good thinking IMO. He's struggling and needs a day. May as well avoid a guy who could mess him up. Let the guys who are usually messed up anyway deal with him.

[REDSEER]

FYI ESPN has a live look-in right now of the Reds with Pirates in a rain delay

[Blitz Dorsey]

Real nice play from Cairo. What a pro.

[redsfaninbsg]

Wright 5-3.

[mth123]

Even if Dusty wanted to do that, he never would have because he wouldn't want anyone to think he was copying off LaRussa.

If Larussa's MO is to hit the worst hitter 8th, maybe Janish is hitting where Larussa would put him.

[Big Klu]

The official scorer sure blew that one. That should have been a clear error on Janish, not a hit. What is this, Little League? Sorry, that's called an error in professional baseball. Heck, even a high school shortstop would have made that play. What was the OS thinking?

Agreed. I think that was clearly an error on Janish.

[Big Klu]

Just noticed that...a little superstitious maybe?

Probably. Who knows--if they play well enough, they might even take them on the road.

[redsfaninbsg]

Stubbs K's.

[redsfaninbsg]

Cairo out 5-3

[redsfaninbsg]

Bruce 2B.

[redsfaninbsg]

Phillips out 3U on a check swing.

[redsfaninbsg]

Murphy 2B

[The Voice of IH]

Thom not liking Bay much.

[redsfaninbsg]

Murphy out 1-5 FC on a fine play by Leake. Bay on at 1B.

[redsfaninbsg]

Thole K's, 2 down.

[redsfaninbsg]

Pridie 1B, 2 on 2 out for Dickey.

[redsfaninbsg]

Dickey down swinging, three K's for Leake. 0-0 after 1.5.

[redsfaninbsg]

Lewis K's.

[redsfaninbsg]

Ramon grounds out 3U

[PuffyPig]

I posed the question in another thread...how much worse off would the Reds be if they just went with a 24 man roster and used Leake as a PH?

Quite wrose off with no back up SS.

You'd be losing an OF, not Janish.

[redsfaninbsg]

Frazier down swinging; scoreless after two complete.

[redsfaninbsg]

Reyes out F9.

[redsfaninbsg]

Turner grounds out 4-3, took a funny hop on Phillips.

[redsfaninbsg]

Phillips with another spectacular play to retire Beltran 4-3.

[redsfaninbsg]

Janish lines one to 3B, base hit. Slow roller stayed fair, but a hit, regardless.

[kaldaniels]

Janish Janishes a single rolled up the line to 3rd.

[redsfaninbsg]

4-3 sac, Janish moves to second.

[kaldaniels]

Welsh talking about hitting...will they show his HR?

[redsfaninbsg]

Stubbs out 6-3.

[redsfaninbsg]

Cairo out F8.

[redsfaninbsg]

Wright out 6-3 to open the 4th.

[redsfaninbsg]

Murphy out 4-3, two away.

[redsfaninbsg]

Bay BB

[redsfaninbsg]

Thole 1B, Mets have 1st and 3rd with two away.

[redsfaninbsg]

Pridie out F7, Mets strand two more and the game remains scoreless.

[redsfaninbsg]

Bruce out F7 on a diving play by Bay.

[redsfaninbsg]

Phillips K's and goes to 1st on a PB.

[redsfaninbsg]

Phillips CS 2-6, out by a country mile.

[redsfaninbsg]

Lewis K's.

[Captain Hook]

Phillips CS 2-6, out by a country mile.

Looked like Reyes missed the tag.

[Kc61]

Reds might consider some opposite field hitting against the knuckler.

Offense is asleep again.

[redsfaninbsg]

Dickey out 4-3

[Kc61]

Pitcher grounds out.

Mets have a bunch of lefty hitters. That could help them in this game against Leake.

Reds could use some lefty hitting against R A.

[redsfaninbsg]

Reyes out 4-3

[redsfaninbsg]

Turner BB

[Kc61]

Bad walk by Leake. Brings up Beltran.

[redsfaninbsg]

Beltran P5 in foul ground.

[Kc61]

Foul out.

[Wheelhouse]

Sorry guys, I just finished picking my jaw up off the floor. Dusty calls a hit and run with the knuckleballer everyone has been missing by two feet...

[redsfaninbsg]

5-3 GO

[redsfaninbsg]

IF hit for Frazier.

[Captain Hook]

A few months ago I would've never guessed we'd see Leake's era get down below 4 this year.Now sitting at 3.92.

[redsfaninbsg]

Janish on via E5, 2 on 1 out for Leake.

[Kc61]

Let him hit. No bunt.

[redsfaninbsg]

Sorry, ruled that a hit.

[Blitz Dorsey]

It's "Little League Mom Does The Official Scoring" night at the ballpark. As long as the boys are trying hard, no one gets an error. Hits all around!!!

Can't believe they actually ruled Janish's ball a "hit." That was definitely an error on Wright.

[redsfaninbsg]

Leake out 1-3 SAC. Two in scoring position for last night's hero.

[Wheelhouse]

BIG SWING!

[redsfaninbsg]

Stubbs gone on three pitches.

[redhawkfish]

It's "Little League Mom Does The Official Scoring" night at the ballpark. As long as the boys are trying hard, no one gets an error. Hits all around!!!

Can't believe they actually ruled Janish's ball a "hit." That was definitely an error on Wright.

Ha! My dad was our team's scorer and if the player touched it he called it an error!

[Kc61]

Just a bad decision there. Leake has a chance. Stubbs Ks so much.

No need to bunt there.

[The Voice of IH]

I guess Votto is not allowed to Pinch Hit today. :(

[Kc61]

Single for Wright. Murphy flies out.

Mets announcers point out Leake lost one zip last time.

[Kc61]

Fly out to right.

[Kc61]

Thole up. One on two out. Hit.

[Kc61]

Fly out ends inning.

[Brutus]

Gameday shows this to be a small strikezone tonight. Anyone watching that agrees with that assessment? lol

[Blitz Dorsey]

A few months ago I would've never guessed we'd see Leake's era get down below 4 this year.Now sitting at 3.92.

Isn't it great. We have quite the nice 1-2 punch with Cueto and Leake. And they're both very young.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Gameday shows this to be a small strikezone tonight. Anyone watching that agrees with that assessment? lol

Ha! He's actually gotten a little better as the game has progressed. He really missed a couple bad ones in the first inning. Leake had a clear K when even Reyes was walking back to the dugout. Called a ball of course.

[Kc61]

Hit for Cairo.

[dsmith421]

Dickey's ability to throw the knuckler for first-pitch strikes is outstanding. He's a really nice pitcher.

[kaldaniels]

I'd be tempted to turn it over to the pen now.

[Captain Hook]

I guess Votto is not allowed to Pinch Hit today. :(

I'd guess your wrong.Unless there's a injury we're not being told about.

[Kc61]

Pridie 1B, 2 on 2 out for Dickey.


I'd be tempted to turn it over to the pen now.

Agree. Bray and Logan rested should get ready.

Bruce Ks.

[Brutus]

7 K's for Dickey on just 65 pitches thus far.

[Captain Hook]

Agree. Bray and Logan rested should getvready.

Bruce Ks.

Chapman only threw 9 pitches last night.He should be available.

[Kc61]

Run scoring double BP.

[Kc61]

Good base running by Cairo. A real pro.

[Brutus]

OK that was kind of a big deal. Need more runs, though.

[dsmith421]

Thom is into "effusive praise for anyone on camera" mode.

[Kc61]

Lewis up. Man on second. Walks.

[Kc61]

DP by Razor ends inning.

[redsfaninbsg]

I'd go to the BP.

[Kc61]

Dusty get your pen ready.

These starters have trouble going seven innings.

Remember the Brave series?

Dickey hitting for himself. It's 1960 again.

[Kc61]

Dickey flies to Stubbs.

[The Voice of IH]

I'd guess your wrong.Unless there's a injury we're not being told about.

I hope you're right. It just seems that he is completely out of the routine. He is said to not even be in the dugout.

[Captain Hook]

Dusty get your pen ready.

These starters have trouble going seven innings.

Remember the Brave series?

Dickey hitting for himself. It's 1960 again.

104 pitches.I'm sure Dusty has him on a short leash.

[redsfaninbsg]

No reason to leave Leake in.

[Kc61]

Reyes singles. Leake should be out.

[Brutus]

I'd leave Leake in as long as he doesn't give up another baserunner.

[The Voice of IH]

Just foul, wow.

[redsfaninbsg]

Playing with fire has burnt Dusty many times, now the umpires are even giving the Reds some calls.

[dsmith421]

That looks fair to me.

Please go get him.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Wow. That sure looked fair.

[The Voice of IH]

It will probably be Bray vs. Beltrain.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Thom is into "effusive praise for anyone on camera" mode.

Thom can't win. He's either too critical or too rosy. He's not great, but overall, I like him. I know most on this board disagree.

[Captain Hook]

It will probably be Bray vs. Beltrain.

No doubt.

[redsfaninbsg]

I really, really, hate Dusty Baker.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Jeez. Both hits were sawed-off singles; complete luck. Course, Leake is lucky he didn't give up a run-scoring double already.

[dsmith421]

Thom can't win. He's either too critical or too rosy. He's not great, but overall, I like him. I know most on this board disagree.

It's his smarmy tone. I don't care if he's being effusive or sardonic, he has this schoolmarm cadence that makes everything sound like a lecture from the self-appointed smartest guy at the bar.

[Kc61]

112 pitches for Leake.

Why did he have to pitch the seventh?

[Blitz Dorsey]

Just wanted to take time to mention how much I love Mike Leake. (In a completely heterosexual way. Not that there's anything wrong with that!) Not saying he's Greg Maddux who is one of the best pitchers in MLB history. But at times, he's Madduxesqe. That might be laying it on a bit thick, but he's that "type" of pitcher. I don't ever expect him to be that good, but if he can even approach Maddux status, we'll be happy fans for years to come.

[redsfaninbsg]

112 pitches for Leake.

Why did he have to pitch the seventh?

Toothpick wanted to show confidence.

[Captain Hook]

Jeez. Both hits were sawed-off singles; complete luck. Course, Leake is lucky he didn't give up a run-scoring double already.

Why?Like you said both hits were sawed-off.Seems to me with any luck Leake should've been out of the inning with no damage done.

[Brutus]

112 pitches for Leake.

Why did he have to pitch the seventh?

Why would you remove seemingly every pitcher that eclipses 75 pitches?

I don't see a problem with him starting that inning. He's pitched really well. As long as Dusty had backup ready, and he did, I see no problem with letting him go back out.

[redsfaninbsg]

Why?Like you said both hits were sawed-off.Seems to me with any luck Leake should've been out of the inning with no damage done.

It should be 1-1 that ball was fair.

[Blitz Dorsey]

It's his smarmy tone. I don't care if he's being effusive or sardonic, he has this schoolmarm cadence that makes everything sound like a lecture from the self-appointed smartest guy at the bar.

What about when he giggles like a schoolgirl when Welsh says something half-funny? You like that too, don't you? Ha.

[Kc61]

Toothpick wanted to show confidence.

Arroyo Friday. Willis Sunday. Leake tonight.

Sac fly ties the game.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Why?Like you said both hits were sawed-off.Seems to me with any luck Leake should've been out of the inning with no damage done.

No, I'm saying the ball that was ruled foul looked like it was fair. That was the "run-scoring double" I was referring to. The luck kind of equaled out that inning.

[Captain Hook]

It should be 1-1 that ball was fair.

Blitz just mentioned that Reyes's hit was sawed off.I guess at worse with any luck there would be 2 outs with a man on second.

[Kc61]

Why would you remove seemingly every pitcher that eclipses 75 pitches?

I don't see a problem with him starting that inning. He's pitched really well. As long as Dusty had backup ready, and he did, I see no problem with letting him go back out.

Three times in last four games Dusty left the starter in for the seventh of tight games. Runs allowed each time.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Blitz just mentioned that Reyes's hit was sawed off.I guess at worse with any luck there would be 2 outs with a man on second.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Gotcha.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Three times in last four games Dusty left the starter in for the seventh of tight games. Runs allowed each time.

Are you of the opinion that the starter should be pulled in the 7th of EVERY close game? He'd been pitching a 6 hit shutout and just barely eclipsed 100 pitches. I've got ZERO problem with Leake going back out there to start the inning.

[Captain Hook]

That was another rocket.:(

[_Sir_Charles_]

Crud. 3-1 Mets.

[redsfaninbsg]

Who didn't see this coming? Dusty baseball strikes again.

[Brutus]

Three times in last four games Dusty left the starter in for the seventh of tight games. Runs allowed each time.

I'm not sure what that proves. By that logic, a starter should never pitch past the 6th inning unless it's a blowout.

[PuffyPig]

Are you of the opinion that the starter should be pulled in the 7th of EVERY close game? He'd been pitching a 6 hit shutout and just barely eclipsed 100 pitches. I've got ZERO problem with Leake going back out there to start the inning.

The starter should only be pulled IF he is going to give up runs....

[Blitz Dorsey]

Punch in the gut. Jeez.

[Kc61]

Are you of the opinion that the starter should be pulled in the 7th of EVERY close game? He'd been pitching a 6 hit shutout and just barely eclipsed 100 pitches. I've got ZERO problem with Leake going back out there to start the inning.

Two run double. Probably the ball game.

Hope Leake is feeling confident.

[edabbs44]

Who didn't see this coming? Dusty baseball strikes again.

Stop.

[redsfaninbsg]

I'm not sure what that proves. By that logic, a starter should never pitch past the 6th inning unless it's a blowout.

Uh, Arroyo was giving up rockets all night and Leake was over 100 pitches. The only one that made any sense was Willis.

[CrackerJack]

Ondrusek *sigh* - didn't he just do this a few days ago? He looks terrible.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Both hits Leake gave up in this inning were sawed-off singles. You are going to blame that on Dusty? Leake sure didn't look like a pitcher that was gassed to me.

[redsfaninbsg]

Stop.

Truth hurts.

[edabbs44]

Uh, Arroyo was giving up rockets all night and Leake was over 100 pitches. The only one that made any sense was Willis.

I think the better argument at this point is that Leake should have been left in.

[Brutus]

I'm confused...

Dusty is wrong because he didn't go to the bullpen instead of Leake because the bullpen just gave up a few runs?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Who didn't see this coming? Dusty baseball strikes again.

Ummm...we've seen harder hit balls off of Bray & Ondrusek than we did against Leake. So it wouldn't have been Dusty's fault if he'd started the inning with the relievers and gotten lit up?

[Blitz Dorsey]

I'm confused...

Dusty is wrong because he didn't go to the bullpen instead of Leake because the bullpen just gave up a few runs?

You're not confused at all. People are looking for scapegoats when it was a fluky/lucky inning. Leake is pitching a shutout in the 7th inning and people want him pulled just because he's gone over the magical 100 pitches. Sorry, this one is not on Dusty.

[redsfaninbsg]

I'm confused...

Dusty is wrong because he didn't go to the bullpen instead of Leake because the bullpen just gave up a few runs?

LOL, the lengths you will go to defend Baker.

[Cedric]

Dusty has been wrong seemingly all year until tonight.

Bad luck tonight is all I see.

[Brutus]

LOL, the lengths you will go to defend Baker.

You mean "LOL the lengths RZ will go to criticizing Baker"?

[PuffyPig]

You know, baseball often just happens.

It doesn't always have to be someone's fault.

[Blitz Dorsey]

LOL, the lengths you will go to defend Baker.

I can't believe Dusty didn't know that Leake was going to give up two fluky hits. He should be fired immediately. Damn that Leake giving up bloop hits! It was obvious he was gassed. [sarcasm off]

[Captain Hook]

You're not confused at all. People are looking for scapegoats when it was a fluky/lucky inning. Leake is pitching a shutout in the 7th inning and people want him pulled just because he's gone over the magical 100 pitches. Sorry, this one is not on Dusty.

At least as far as Leake is concerned and people are actually arguing that he's the one that shouldn't have been pitching that inning.:confused:

[signalhome]

You know, baseball often just happens.

It doesn't always have to be someone's fault.

:beerme:

[redsfaninbsg]

You mean "LOL the lengths RZ will go to criticizing Baker"?

If you think he's a good manager so be it. I personally don't think he's capable of managing a high school team. Most guys know how to make double switches, what the count is, has a general idea of when a pitcher is blowing up, lineup construction, etc.

[Kc61]

You're not confused at all. People are looking for scapegoats when it was a fluky/lucky inning. Leake is pitching a shutout in the 7th inning and people want him pulled just because he's gone over the magical 100 pitches. Sorry, this one is not on Dusty.

The better decision was to let a reliever start the seventh IMO.

Ondrusek usually is good.

But not tonight.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Hey Reds: those are called 2-out hits with RISP. Teams that get them win games.

[redsfaninbsg]

The better decision was to let a reliever start the seventh IMO.

Ondrusek usually is good.

But not tonight.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

[Brutus]

If you think he's a good manager so be it. I personally don't think he's capable of managing a high school team. Most guys know how to make double switches, what the count is, has a general idea of when a pitcher is blowing up, lineup construction, etc.

Good grief, I've explained myself a thousand times. I don't even think Baker is a good tactician. But the microanalysis of every single move he makes or doesn't make has been excruciating lately.

[VR]

You know, baseball often just happens.

It doesn't always have to be someone's fault.

You must be new to Redszone. How very altruistic.

[PuffyPig]

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Of course, the choice to bring in Oldrusek has turned out to be a total loser.

[VR]

Janish is a beast.

[Kc61]

Good grief, I've explained myself a thousand times. I don't even think Baker is a good tactician. But the microanalysis of every single move he makes or doesn't make has been excruciating lately.

So we are banned from critiquing the manager?

This is not micro analysis. Dusty consistently pushes his starters into the late innings. Some of us disagree with that.

Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

[bucksfan2]

So we are banned from critiquing the manager?

This is not micro analysis. Dusty consistently pushes his starters into the late innings. Some of us disagree with that.

Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

Pushing it is into the 7th now?

[Captain Hook]

Janish is a beast.

If he could face knuckle ballers every night he probably would be.

[Blitz Dorsey]

The better decision was to let a reliever start the seventh IMO.

Ondrusek usually is good.

But not tonight.

You convinced me with that solid argument. Except you didn't. Leake was pitching a shutout through 6. You don't pull him unless you think he's gassed. He was barely over 100 pitches (102). I don't buy into 100 pitches=pitcher is gassed. It's not even close to that simple.

And yes, Ondrusek is usually very good. Tonight, he was much-worse than Leake, which means pulling Leake was a horrible decision. If anything, Dusty should be criticized for pulling Leake at all.

[Brutus]

So we are banned from critiquing the manager?

This is not micro analysis. Dusty consistently pushes his starters into the late innings. Some of us disagree with that.

Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

It's not about criticizing, it's about literally EVERYTHING Dusty does that goes wrong he gets hammered for it these days. It's gone beyond criticizing. It's been piling on. It's been excessive.

It stopped being criticism a long time ago and started to become a game of blame_Dusty.

[Cedric]

So we are banned from critiquing the manager?

This is not micro analysis. Dusty consistently pushes his starters into the late innings. Some of us disagree with that.

Nothing wrong with pointing it out.

I think tonight it's off base. But with how bad Dusty has been this year I'm not surprised people are all over him. He deserves it.

[redsfaninbsg]

It's not about criticizing, it's about literally EVERYTHING Dusty does that goes wrong he gets hammered for it these days. It's gone beyond criticizing. It's been piling on. It's been excessive.

It stopped being criticism a long time ago and started to become a game of blame_Dusty.

When he does something right, I'll brag on him. I've been waiting for about three weeks now.

[Kc61]

Pushing it is into the 7th now?

Some of these pitchers have no consistent track record of going seven or eight innings. Including Leake. So, yes, seven is a long night for him.

[Brutus]

When he does something right, I'll brag on him. I've been waiting for about three weeks now.

The man has won nearly 53% of his games for his 18-year managerial career and been to the playoffs several times. Clearly he's done something right in his career.

[signalhome]

Haha, I think I'm having more fun watching this fight than watching the actual game.

Nice hit by Stubbs. Still a bit over two innings to play; the game isn't over yet.

[bucksfan2]

Some of these pitchers have no consistent track record of going seven or eight innings. Including Leake. So, yes, seven is a long night for him.

I don't consider 7 innings pusing it. Leake didn't look gassed at all. As mentioned above two bloop hits is what started the rally and then it was all Ondrusek from there.

[edabbs44]

The better decision was to let a reliever start the seventh IMO.

Ondrusek usually is good.

But not tonight.

Is there anything that says that relievers are better when they start an inning?

[Kc61]

Don't really see the point of contributing posts if you can't give opinions about the managing of the game.

I have supported Dusty and complained about him. I don't plan to be muzzled either way.

[Blitz Dorsey]

The man has won nearly 53% of his games for his 18-year managerial career and been to the playoffs several times. Clearly he's done something right in his career.

Can't you see that some fans are longing for the Ray Knights of the world? Guys like Bob Boone? Quality managers like Jerry Narron and Dave Miley?

[redsfaninbsg]

The man has won nearly 53% of his games for his 18-year managerial career and been to the playoffs several times. Clearly he's done something right in his career.

In his 18 year career, he's had guys put up five MVP seasons. It aint rocket science.

[bucksfan2]

Why no PH Votto here? Give him 2 AB's this game.

[edabbs44]

Some of these pitchers have no consistent track record of going seven or eight innings. Including Leake. So, yes, seven is a long night for him.

You know how you get a track record? By pitching more than 6.

[edabbs44]

Why no PH Votto here? Give him 2 AB's this game.

Because it defeats the purpose of giving him time off?

[Brutus]

In his 18 year career, he's had guys put up five MVP seasons. It aint rocket science.

So basically, everything good that happens it's the players, everything bad, it's the manager?

[signalhome]

Stubbs was out, bad call there.

[Cedric]

I'm not sure how you evaluate managers on a large scale. I doubt Terry Francona suddenly became a genius after going to Boston though.

Look at his record in Philly.

[Kc61]

You know how you get a track record? By pitching more than 6.

Next time Leake has a four run lead he can pitch seven.

[redsfaninbsg]

So basically, everything good that happens it's the players, everything bad, it's the manager?

I guess Barry Bonds, Jeff Kent, and Joey Votto have Dusty Baker to thank for their MVP awards? :laugh:

[Quatitos]

Some of these pitchers have no consistent track record of going seven or eight innings. Including Leake. So, yes, seven is a long night for him.

Mike Leake has averaged 6 and 2/3 innings a start for both of his years in the major leagues. That is a track record of going into the seventh inning.

[edabbs44]

Hernandez: "If that leg is stiff, it gets in there quick, quicker"

Where is Michael Scott when you need him.

[bucksfan2]

Because it defeats the purpose of giving him time off?

Give him 6+ innings off is fine with me. Its micromanaging to the tee but you need to win games.

No biggie Cairo walks.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Mike Leake has averaged 6 and 2/3 innings a start for both of his years in the major leagues. That is a track record of going into the seventh inning.

You and your facts have no place in this forum, sir.

[edabbs44]

Next time Leake has a four run lead he can pitch seven.

The way the offense is going it may be in a contract year.

[Quatitos]

You and your facts have no place in this forum, sir.
Sorry, I'll leave ;)

[Kc61]

Bruce will tie this game up. Or better.

Byrdak gave up that big homer last year.

[edabbs44]

Jay is way off his early pace vs LHP...hopefully he can get it going.

Now.

[bucksfan2]

Bruce will tie this game up. Or better.

Byrdak gave up that big homer last year.

Just hoping for contact

[Blitz Dorsey]

Crap.

[Kc61]

Bruce fans on three pitches. New year.

[dsmith421]

That is just an atrocious at-bat.

[edabbs44]

Jay used.

[Gallen5862]

Whats the score? How many outs?

[Kc61]

Whats the score? How many outs?

Four two Mets headed to the eighth.

[Brutus]

I guess Barry Bonds, Jeff Kent, and Joey Votto have Dusty Baker to thank for their MVP awards? :laugh:

Is that what I said?

I just take exception that a manager can't receive any credit but can get blame for everything he does.

I will say this again: I'm not crazy about Dusty as a tactician. But I think he's getting way more blame than he deserves lately. There have been some perfectly reasonable, statistically sound decisions lately that are getting raked over the coals.

[Gallen5862]

Thanks KC61.

[PuffyPig]

I guess Baker should have PH Gomes for Bruce......

[edabbs44]

I guess Baker should have PH Gomes for Bruce......

Friggin Dusty.

[Kc61]

I guess Baker should have PH Gomes for Bruce......

In retrospect.

[VR]

Pulling sliders looks cool when you connect. You look like a A ball player when you don't.

[redsfaninbsg]

Is that what I said?

I just take exception that a manager can't receive any credit but can get blame for everything he does.

I will say this again: I'm not crazy about Dusty as a tactician. But I think he's getting way more blame than he deserves lately. There have been some perfectly reasonable, statistically sound decisions lately that are getting raked over the coals.

I'd love for you to point out one decision he's made (that I complained about) that was correct? Minus the squeeze with two strikes, which you are the only person in the world that agrees with that.

[Kc61]

Cards up 4 to 1.

[Brutus]

I'd love for you to point out one decision he's made (that I complained about) that was correct? Minus the squeeze with two strikes, which you are the only person in the world that agrees with that.

I pointed out that Hall of Fame manager Bobby Cox has done that many times. But I guess he doesn't get credit for that because he's had Chipper, Greg Maddux, etc., Right?

[redsfaninbsg]

I pointed out that Hall of Fame manager Bobby Cox has done that many times. But I guess he doesn't get credit for that because he's had Chipper, Greg Maddux, etc., Right?

Again, only you think that's the right move. Even Dusty thinks that's a horrible move. Back to the game.

[edabbs44]

I'd love for you to point out one decision he's made (that I complained about) that was correct? Minus the squeeze with two strikes, which you are the only person in the world that agrees with that.

I guess the answer would depend on what defines a correct decision.

[Kc61]

Pirates up 2 to 0 early after rain.

Very tough to jump over three teams. At least one
of them usually wins.

Headed to bottom 8 here, 4-2.

[Brutus]

Again, only you think that's the right move. Even Dusty thinks that's a horrible move. Back to the game.

You think Dusty is a horrible manager. So that he agrees with you might not be a good thing.

[Kc61]

BP Ks to start the eighth.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Calling for a squeeze with two strikes was a terrible decision by Dusty. But that has nothing to do with tonight's game. It's like people are using Dusty's mistakes in the past against him tonight. This one is not on him.

[_Sir_Charles_]

You convinced me with that solid argument. Except you didn't. Leake was pitching a shutout through 6. You don't pull him unless you think he's gassed. He was barely over 100 pitches (102). I don't buy into 100 pitches=pitcher is gassed. It's not even close to that simple.

And yes, Ondrusek is usually very good. Tonight, he was much-worse than Leake, which means pulling Leake was a horrible decision. If anything, Dusty should be criticized for pulling Leake at all.

I also think it's a good thing to push your young starter a LITTLE bit. 100 pitches is not done. I hate that number. I loathe it. Fans & managers have gotten so stuck on that number it's ridiculous.

[Kc61]

Calling for a squeeze with two strikes was a terrible decision by Dusty. But that has nothing to do with tonight's game. It's like people are using Dusty's mistakes in the past against him tonight. This one is not on him.

Dusty leaves his starters in too long.
Dusty bunts too much.
Dusty leaves Coco in when he doesn't have it.

Those are my general gripes. Otherwise he's great.

Lewis walks. Votto coming up.

[bucksfan2]

So much for a day off. I would have PH him last inning.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Dusty leaves his starters in too long.
Dusty bunts too much.
Dusty leaves Coco in when he doesn't have it.

Those are my general gripes. Otherwise he's great.

Lewis walks. Votto coming up.

Fair enough. He definitely has his faults. Batting players in the two hole that should never been in the two hole (like Janish for a while) is one of my gripes.

[Kc61]

Votto flies to left. Almost.

[bucksfan2]

Votto flies to left. Almost.

Story of the 2011 Reds.

[Kc61]

Frazier falls behind two strikes. Ball one. Ground out.

Ninth inning.

[Kc61]

Arredondo in. Hits Turner with the first pitch.

[bucksfan2]

Arredondo doesn't look like he knows where its going tonight.

[BCubb2003]

The bullpen has such good numbers, but why does it seem to ruin so many good starts?

[REDSEER]

I'm definitely not sold on Arredondo. Hasn't seemed to have control at all this year.

[bucksfan2]

Don't quite know why Dusty keeps going with Arredondo.

[Kc61]

Reds should have tattooed the knuckleballer tonight. Increasingly, I would like to see them add offense.

Arredondo falls behind and walks Beltran.

Two on, no out.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Arredondo doesn't look like he knows where its going tonight.

Clearly, Dusty is to blame for picking the wrong reliever.

I kid. :O)

[Kc61]

Double play, two out, man on third.

[bucksfan2]

Clearly, Dusty is to blame for picking the wrong reliever.

I kid. :O)

Na really wondering what the Reds see in him. He doesn't throw strikes enough. As a relief pitcher who doesn't have great stuff it doesn't often work very well.

[VR]

Na really wondering what the Reds see in him. He doesn't throw strikes enough. As a relief pitcher who doesn't have great stuff it doesn't often work very well.

He was off for an extended period. I'm sure they are hoping his control will get better

[_Sir_Charles_]

Na really wondering what the Reds see in him. He doesn't throw strikes enough. As a relief pitcher who doesn't have great stuff it doesn't often work very well.

I like his stuff but I agree that he doesn't look quite ready yet. I was mainly just looking for a chance to make a crack about the piling on of Baker. :O)

[Kc61]

Na really wondering what the Reds see in him. He doesn't throw strikes enough. As a relief pitcher who doesn't have great stuff it doesn't often work very well.

Arredondo is fine in his current role imo. Doesn't usually pitch important innings.

Murphy up. Lines to Frazier.

Izzy in to try for a save.

[REDSEER]

I don't know about everyone else....but I'm glad they took out Parnell for Izzy

[BCubb2003]

How did Isringhausen become a closer after washing out last year?

[Kc61]

How did Isringhausen become a closer after washing out last year?

K Rod got traded.

[VR]

How did Isringhausen become a closer after washing out last year?

Went back to his Cardinal routine?

[BCubb2003]

K Rod got traded.

Still, why him?

[Kc61]

Janish up. Three for three. Out on very close play sliding into first.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Leave it to Janish to slide into first base. You only slide into first to avoid a tag.

[BCubb2003]

Leave it to Janish to slide into first base. You only slide into first to avoid a tag.

There's a legendary RedsZone thread about that.

[Kc61]

Leave it to Janish to slide into first base. You only slide into first to avoid a tag.



Hanigan up. Reds need some offense here.

Janish can't carry the team.

Error on Wright on sharp grounder.

Stubbs up.

[Blitz Dorsey]

There's a legendary RedsZone thread about that.

What's the gist? 'Cause I know I'm right. :D

[Blitz Dorsey]

At least the official scorer is consistent tonight. Except he's not! What a terrible job by the OS. At least he finally got one right though.

[edabbs44]

He just hung that curve

[_Sir_Charles_]

Hanigan up. Reds need some offense here.

Janish can't carry the team.

Error on Wright on sharp grounder.

Stubbs up.

LOL. One of the funniest things I've read in a while. :O)

[Kc61]

Izzy ahead two strikes.

High tight ball one.

High curve ball two.

Foul.

Fans on outside curve.

[redsfaninbsg]

I wish I could bet on the Reds during the game, I could make a killing betting at bat by at bat.