8.3.11 Reds @ Astros

[klw]

this is the free game of the day on MLB.TV for those of us without any other was to view the Reds
Frazier gets the start at 3rd.


Drew Stubbs 8
Edgar Renteria 6
Joey Votto 3
Brandon Phillips 4
Jay Bruce 9
Fred Lewis 7
Ramon Hernandez 2
Todd Frazier 5
Dontrelle Willis LHP

v. Jordan Lyles RHP
0-6, 4.41 ERA


http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_08_03_cinmlb_houmlb_1&mode=preview

It will be a battle of two winless pitchers at Minute Maid Park on Wednesday night as Astros rookie Jordan Lyles (0-6) duels with Reds left-hander Dontrelle Willis (0-1).

Lyles is making his 12th start of the season and has been better than his record shows, allowing three runs or less in six starts.

He has been the victim of some low run support, as the Astros have averaged just 2.88 runs in his starts. He has received more than four runs of support just once in his rookie season and has had just three or fewer runs to work with in seven of his 11 starts.

[RichRed]

He has been the victim of some low run support, as the Astros have averaged just 2.88 runs in his starts. He has received more than four runs of support just once in his rookie season and has had just three or fewer runs to work with in seven of his 11 starts.

He should get used to that. The Astros only average 3.76 runs per game and that's when they still had Pence and Bourn.

[Tom Servo]

Stubbs and Renteria K'd, Votto singled a flare into left but got thrown trying to stretch it to a double.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 1st:

Stubbs Ks looking.
Renteria Ks swinging.
Votto singles down the left field line and is thrown out trying to stretch it to a double.

After half an inning, Reds 0, Astros coming up.

Lyles threw 13 pitches, 9 strikes.

[Tom Servo]

2-0 Astros. Not a good start.

[mbgrayson]

Astros 1st:

Bourgeois singles on a slow roller down the thrid base line.
Altuve sacrifise bunts Bourgeois to 2nd.
Willis wild pitches Bourgeois to 3rd.
J.D. Martinez hits his 1st MLB homer to left-center.
Lee grounds out to Frazier at 3rd.
Michaels doubles off the left field wall.
Paredes gets an infield single to short, Michaels to third.
Barmes lines out to short.

After 1 inning, Astros 2, Reds 0.

Dontrelle at 20 pitches, 13 strikes, and getting hit hard in the 1st.

[Plus Plus]

In the words of Nate: chat is open!

[mbgrayson]

Reds 2nd:

Phillips reaches on an error by Barmes at short.
Bruce flies out to the track in left center.
Lewis lines out to Martinez in left.
Ramon grounds out to short.

After one and a half innings, Astros 2, Reds 0.

Lyles at 35 pitches, 22 strikes.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Wow. The last 2 days, Yonder Alonso has taken ground balls at THIRD. Mark Sheldon just said that on WLW to Marty. That's stunning.

[mbgrayson]

Astros 2nd:

Quintero grounds out to short.
Lyles Ks swinging.
Bourgeois flies out to Bruce.

After 2, Astros 2, Reds 0.

Willis at 29 pitches, 18 strikes.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Frazier plunked on the first pitch. RETALIATION!!!! *pulls torch and pitchfork out of closet*

[Oxilon]

There are still 2 months left. Reds have too much talent to be out of it yet. Doesn't help when your having issues with the AAAstros though.

[mbgrayson]

Reds third:

Frazier is hit on the elbow.
Dontrelle sacrifices him to 2nd.
Stubbs flies to the track down the left field line.
Renteria lines out to left.

After two and a half, Reds 0, Astros 2.

Lyles at 41 pitches, 26 strikes. (Six pitch inning there, four batters, 6 pitches....)

[_Sir_Charles_]

BPhil. Wowsers.

[CTA513]

good job by Lewis to hold him to a single

[CTA513]

good play by Renteria and man is Carlos Lee slow

[mbgrayson]

Astros third:

Altuve lines out to Phillips, who makes a wonderful diving catch. Brantley "I cease to be amazed...."
Martinez singles off the wall below the Crawford boxes.
Lee hits into a 6-4-3 doubleplay.

After 3 innings, Astros 2, Reds 0.

Willis at 36 pitches, 23 strikes. (7 pitch inning).

[kaldaniels]

There are still 2 months left. Reds have too much talent to be out of it yet. Doesn't help when your having issues with the AAAstros though.

Unless the Reds were 2 back with 3 games left in the season you will never hear me call for a sweep of any team, so that is not what I expected. But they have to get out of Houston with 2 wins...losing 2 of 3 to Houston is unacceptable.

[Oxilon]

Another RISP stranded. Story of the season.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

So it's one of those nights. RISP ineptitude.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 4th:

Votto hits a ground rule double down the right field line.
Phillips flies to shallow center.
Bruce grounds to 2nd, Joey to 3rd.
Lewis grounds out to the pitcher.

After three and a half innings, Astros 2, Reds 0.

Lyles at 58 pitches, 37 strikes.

[Kc61]

Joey and the missers.

[mbgrayson]

Astros 4th:

Michaels grounds out to Frazier at 3rd.
Paredes lines out to Renteria.
Barmes walks on 4 pitches.
Quintero grounds out to Renteria.

After 4 innings, Astros 2, Reds 0.

Willis at 49 pitches, 29 strikes.

[kaldaniels]

Downtown goes Frazier!!!

[Oxilon]

That was a bomb by Frazier.

[redsfaninbsg]

Joey has scored a fair amount of runs this season but I'd love to know how many times he was on second base/third base with less than two outs and didn't score. It seems like he's always being stranded in scoring position.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 5th:

Ramon flies out to right.
Frazier hits a long HR to left.
Willis flies to left-center.
Stubbs bounces out in front of the pitcher.

After four and a half, Astros 2, Reds 1.
Lyles at 70 pitches, 44 strikes.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Frazier blasts a monster HR that hit way above the arches in left. It may have been a red-seater in old Riverfront.

[mbgrayson]

Astros 5th:

Lyles grounds out to short.
Bourgeois grounds out to short
Altuve singles through the right side hole.
Martinez flies out to the hill in deep center.

After 5 innings, Astros 2, Reds 1.

Willis at 57 pitches, 35 strikes.

[fisch11]

Willis sure isn't fooling Martinez tonight.

[Oxilon]

Can somebody please knock in Votto this time?

[Oxilon]

Thank you.

[fisch11]

And Lyles sure isn't fooling Votto either.

[Oxilon]

Am I talking to myself in here?

[mbgrayson]

Reds 6th:

Renteria flies out to right.
Votto doubles to the right-center gap.
Phillips singles to center, Votto scores.
Bruce flies out to deep left.
Lewis grounds out to Lyles.

After five and a half, Astros 2, Reds 2.

Lyles at 84 pitches, 55 strikes.

[mbgrayson]

Am I talking to myself in here?

Not quite.....;)

[fisch11]

Am I talking to myself in here?

I'm hanging tough with you. Glad to see Phillips pick up Joey there...Dontrelle looking really efficient tonight too.

[Kc61]

Lot of fruitless fly balls for Reds tonight.

[mbgrayson]

Dontrelle looking really efficient tonight too.

Neither team is working the count at all. Lots of 1st and 2nd pitch hitting tonight.

[fisch11]

Cubs over Pirates 1-0 in the bottom of the 8th....in case anybody is fired up over 3rd place. :D

[cincyinco]

The baby and I made it home from the hospital today.. Got the game streaming, Reds down two. Now tied.. Cmon rally baby ;)

[fisch11]

The baby and I made it home from the hospital today.. Got the game streaming, Reds down two. Now tied.. Cmon rally baby ;)

Congrats!

[cincyinco]

Cubs over Pirates 1-0 in the bottom of the 8th....in case anybody is fired up over 3rd place. :D


Gotta put some of these teams ahead of us in the rear view mirror.. Might as well be sooner rather than later.

[cincyinco]

Big k of barmes right there

[mbgrayson]

Astros 6th:

Lee grounds out to Phillips.
Michaels singles through the left side hole.
Paredes doubles to the wall in left, Michaels holds at 3rd.
Barmes Ks swinging at a ball way outside.
Quintero bounces out to Willis.

After 6 innings, Reds 2, Astros 2.

Willis at 77 pitches, 48 strikes.

[cincyinco]

Willis escapes the threat! Woo!

[fisch11]

Gotta get this guy a W. Excellent work from Dontrelle again.

[Tom Servo]

D-TRAIN! :jump:

[Reds Fanatic]

Dontrelle home run!

[nate]

WILLIS!

[fisch11]

"I'll get my own run!"

[LvJ]

LOL WAT

I love D-Train.

More like D-Shuttle these days, but I'll take it!

[mbgrayson]

Reds 7th:

Ramon flies out up the hill in center, 420 feet deep.
Frazier pops out to short.
Dontrelle lines a HR half way up the seats in right! Wow.
Stubbs Ks on a check swing.

After six and a half, Reds 3, Astros 2.

Lyles at 96 pitches, 64 strikes.

[cincyinco]

DTrain with a bomb to help is own cause! 3 to 2 Reds!

[LvJ]

Dontrelle only at 78 pitches.

[kaldaniels]

So Massett is no longer the 8th inning setup guy, right?

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

So Massett is no longer the 8th inning setup guy, right?

I think we're seeing why

[Tom Servo]

I'm gettin' real tired of Masset.

[fisch11]

That one is on Joey.

[corkedbat]

Dontrelle only at 78 pitches.

That was a very interesting moce by Dusty. You're gonna take the pitcher out, but you leave him in to hit for himself. Dontrelle is a good-hitting pitcher. Can't question the results.

Now Massett and the D need to toughen up an win this for D.

[redsfaninbsg]

He's got to come out of the game.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Unreal.

D-Train deserved this win. Masset deserves the loss.

[Oxilon]

:rolleyes:

[LvJ]

Oh man.

[fisch11]

Dontrelle is probably wondering what he has to do to get a W. Shuts down the opposition after the 1st inning and gives the team the lead by himself. Only to witness this debacle taking place. Need Chapman quick.

[redsfaninbsg]

No way he should still be in.

[corkedbat]

Pit-i-ful. Just pit-i-ful.

[fisch11]

Astros have given the Reds 2 outs this inning....they do not wish to receive them.

[LvJ]

Masset has been horrible since the break. :(

[Tom Servo]

ballgame

[redsfaninbsg]

Way to compound the problem Dusty.

[Oxilon]

Ladies and Gentleman, you're 2011 Cincinnati Reds. :rolleyes:

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

And game.

Nice job Masset. If he can't get these hitters out, who can he get out?

[fisch11]

This Martinez guy is killing the Reds tonight. All 4 RBI's by himself.

[cincyinco]

Terrible

[kaldaniels]

On Massett, but should Frazier have had that?

[corkedbat]

Pathetic


Third baseman needs to get that. Frazier didn't seem set.

[nate]

On Massett, but should Frazier have had that?

On seeing the replay, I thought so. At least knock it down.

[fisch11]

Need some LeCure magic.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Anyone read Dusty's lips after he took Masset out? Man isn't at all happy with this performance.

[mbgrayson]

Astros 7th: (Part 1)

Masset on to pitch.

Bogusevic walks on 4 pitches.
Bourgeois bunts to Votto, who lobs a throw to Phillips, too late. Scored a hit: I say E-3.
Altuve bunts toward 3rd, Masset can't make the play. Bases loaded, nobody out.
Martinez hits the 1st pitch down the left field line for a double, 2 score, Altuve stays at third.
Lee intentionally walked. Bases juiced again.

Masset is removed. He faced five batters got zero outs.

Bottom of the 7th, none out, bases loaded, score Astors 4, Reds 3.

[alloverjr]

Need some LeCure magic.

I don't know why the hesitation to use him more often in these types of games in lieu of Masset or Ondrusek.

[fisch11]

I don't know why the hesitation to use him more often in these types of games in lieu of Masset or Ondrusek.

I completely agree. Makes you wonder if being designated "long man" takes you out of critical situations in games because you don't won't to risk needing him if it goes long. Sam has definitely proved himself in pressure situations this year.

[Playadlc]

If we lose this series, people need to lose their jobs.

Enough is enough.

[Kc61]

Leave Dusty alone. This on isn't on him. Masset needs to join Ondrusek in the rest area.

[Tom Servo]

Leave Dusty alone. This on isn't on him. Masset needs to join Ondrusek in the rest area.
Why on Earth did Dusty leave Masset in there though after he loaded up the bases? Did he think Masset was figuring 'Well, now I got them where I want 'em!"?

[fisch11]

Leave Dusty alone. This on isn't on him. Masset needs to join Ondrusek in the rest area.

Exactly. Dusty isn't the one walking the lead off guy and struggling against a AAA lineup. Can't pitch for them.

[fisch11]

Pirates lose 1-0. Gonna need a rally to climb up a rung on the ladder to 3rd place tonight.

[Tom Servo]

I love me some Cure.

[mbgrayson]

Astros 7th: (part 2)

LeCure in to pitch with bases loaded, none out.

Michaels hits into a 1-2-3 doubleplay.
Paredes pops out to Frazier.

LeCure gets a medal for that inning! Five pitches, 3 strikes, 3 outs.

Astros 4, Reds 3 after 7.

[fisch11]

Why on Earth did Dusty leave Masset in there though after he loaded up the bases? Did he think Masset was figuring 'Well, now I got them where I want 'em!"?

To Dusty's defense, Masset went from a clean inning to a disaster really quick. Not enough time to get another arm up if you didn't already have one ready.

[fisch11]

Dontrelle's new nickname is the ND-Train.

[WVRedsFan]

Time for Nick to sit for awhile. He's just not a guy you want in a close game. I will blame Dusty for using the same pitchers over and over in the same sequence knowing one or the other is not getting the job done.

[Kc61]

To Dusty's defense, Masset went from a clean inning to a disaster really quick. Not enough time to get another arm up if you didn't already have one ready.

Masset only pitched to four guys when the damage was done. I can't argue with Dusty over that. Two tappers that weren't well played.

This one is on Masset.

[Tom Servo]

How was that a strike? C'mon.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 8th:

Fernando Rodriguez in to pitch.

Renteria Ks looking on a nasty curve.
Votto grounds at to 2nd.
Phillips flies out to right.

After seven and a half, Astros 4, Reds 3.

[redsfaninbsg]

If you continue to use the same guys in the same situations why would you expect different results?

[oneupper]

Votto has yet to hit with someone on base.

[Kc61]

Another fun night at the tv screen.

What a nightmare this season is.

[thatcoolguy_22]

Another fun night at the tv screen.

What a nightmare this season is.

very true. blind sided when the supposed strengths became weaknesses (SP and DEF)

[fisch11]

2nd HR of the season by Quintero.....go figure.

[traderumor]

I apologize for barging in late to the game thread, but losing 2 of 3 to the worst team in MLB, who just traded away their best two offensive players, is simply unacceptable.

Massett, oh, Massett, I usually don't pile on a player, but he infuriates me. I don't care how good his "stuff" is, he is unreliable, esp. with a lead. Bring him in trailing and he's nails. I've even seen him get quickly in trouble with a 4 or 5 run lead. He is simply unreliable, so I don't care how good his "stuff" is--give me the peformer.

Yep, now 5-3, losing 2 of 3 to the Astros, what a disappointing squad.

[dsmith421]

To Dusty's defense, Masset went from a clean inning to a disaster really quick.

When was the inning clean? He threw a four pitch walk to a guy I've never heard of where every pitch was at least six inches out of the zone.

He should have been yanked after the first hacked up bunt attempt (which was bunted on what could very well have been ball four.)

[Tom Servo]

Swept by mediocre Mets team. Beat the defending World Champions. Lose series to a glorified Triple A team.


Pretty much sums up the Reds this year.

[fisch11]

When was the inning clean? He threw a four pitch walk to a guy I've never heard of where every pitch was at least six inches out of the zone.

He should have been yanked after the first hacked up bunt attempt (which was bunted on what could very well have been ball four.)

He started the inning. That's called be given a "clean inning."

[redsfaninbsg]

How many days is it until opening day?

[traderumor]

Oh, and the offensive effort has been 3 runs with an opportunity for 12 in game 1, 1 last night but for Renteria, and 3 tonight off a 20 year old rookie.

I don't normally make such conclusions, but this team came into this series thinking they were gonna throw their gloves on the field for a sweep.

Call this season "Humble Yourselves." Learning how to be a winning team vs. a one year wonder? Which one are you, boys?

[mbgrayson]

Astros 8th:

LeCure still pitching.

Barmes Ks swinging.
Quintero hits a hanging slider into the Crawford boxes for a HR.
Bogusevic Ks on a fould tip.
Bourgeois bounces out to LeCure.

After 8 innings, Astros 5, Reds 3.

[thatcoolguy_22]

How many days is it until opening day?

this many

http://www.ozemotorsport.com/wp-content/imgs/100-million-pounds-cash.jpg

[forfreelin04]

Masset only pitched to four guys when the damage was done. I can't argue with Dusty over that. Two tappers that weren't well played.

This one is on Masset.

Good managers (of anything) can see the writing on the wall before the ink is ever visible.

I could see Masset was going to get lit after the first few pitches. He wasn't following through. He does this when he starts to get lit. He's basically spying over his front shoulder trying to see if the pitch is located properly instead of following through and getting the most amount of torque. He does this EVERY time he struggles. If you notice with him, he's usually lights out or clueless and goes through prolong slumps.

[fisch11]

Reds are 4th in MLB in 9th inning runs scored. Ironically, the Astros are 2nd.

[traderumor]

Reds are 4th in MLB in 9th inning runs scored. Ironically, the Astros are 2nd.Astros scoring them off mop up guys is my first guess.

[forfreelin04]

Oh, and the offensive effort has been 3 runs with an opportunity for 12 in game 1, 1 last night but for Renteria, and 3 tonight off a 20 year old rookie.

I don't normally make such conclusions, but this team came into this series thinking they were gonna throw their gloves on the field for a sweep.

Call this season "Humble Yourselves." Learning how to be a winning team vs. a one year wonder? Which one are you, boys?

Their approach at the plate has been terrible collectively. Swinging for the fences against a 20 year old. Hernandez, Phillips, and Brucie being the main culprits.

[fisch11]

Astros scoring them off mop up guys is my first guess.

Possibly. They are 26th in MLB in total runs scored.

[OldXOhio]

You dont lose 2/3 against the AA Astros with the season nearing its end without being just one sorry bunch.

[cincyinco]

The kids got to come through...

[traderumor]

Lewis gets nothing from me but maybe, maybe an invite to ST. And that would be for AAA depth with little to no chance to make the 25 man next year.

[traderumor]

You dont lose 2/3 against the AA Astros with the season nearing its end without being just one sorry bunch.I'd say mentally unprepared.

[cincyinco]

Can yonder tie it up?

[WVRedsFan]

Can yonder tie it up?

No

[Tom Servo]

But he can drive in Bruce.

[traderumor]

Bee Gees

[signalhome]

But he can drive in Bruce.

Haha, more like "twelve-hop-seeing-eye-grounder in Bruce", but we'll take it.

[OldXOhio]

I'd say mentally unprepared.

One of the numerous reasons why this isn't a good team. But let's keep thinking they're in contention.

[mbgrayson]

Reds 9th:

Melancon in for the attempted save.

Bruce lines a single to right.
Lewis rolls out to the pitcher, Bruce moves up to 2nd.
Ramon grounds out to shortstop, Bruce to 3rd.
Alonso, hitting for Frazier, singles up the middle, Bruce scores.
Cairo, for LeCure, flies to center on the 1st pitch.

Astros win 5 to 4. Sad and pitiful.

[Tom Servo]

Bad bad bad.

[fisch11]

Cairo? No Heisey?
Of course we can't lose by 2....gotta add to the 1 run loss column.

[Gallen5862]

Thanks for all the inning summaries.

[traderumor]

Ballgame, pathetic series, their only reprieve for this roadtrip can be going into Chicago and taking 3.

Of course, all they gotta do is throw their gloves on the field....

[WVRedsFan]

Why do I put myself through this every night?

[OldXOhio]

25th one run loss. Losing team.

[dsmith421]

I don't know why Dusty's job is safe. This is probably the most disappointing team in baseball.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Hey, look! Another 1-run loss.

Cursed? No.

Unlucky? No.

Just more of that random variance stuff. Nothing to see here.

[traderumor]

Why do I put myself through this every night?Its just a part of your being. You couldn't quit it if you wanted to.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Ballgame, pathetic series, their only reprieve for this roadtrip can be going into Chicago and taking 3.

Of course, all they gotta do is throw their gloves on the field....

They thought they could do that in Houston.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I don't know why Dusty's job is safe. This is probably the most disappointing team in baseball.

We're happy with what we have.

[traderumor]

They thought they could do that in Houston.Yea, I made that comment earlier.

[alloverjr]

Cairo? No Heisey?
Of course we can't lose by 2....gotta add to the 1 run loss column.

I would have batted Heisey there as well. But it never ever should have come to that. The veterans on this team are a mental drag. I can't wait for September call ups.

[Tom Servo]

The Reds are bad and should feel bad.

[OldXOhio]

This has been one tough schedule. I like our chances when we start to play easier teams.

[traderumor]

I don't know why Dusty's job is safe. This is probably the most disappointing team in baseball.
Seriously, this would solve nothing but give us a new manager for everyone to heap the blame for losses on. He would be nothing more than a scapegoat. Maybe management just needs to figure it out. Everyone always wants to fire somebody and think it resolved something.

[alloverjr]

This has been one tough schedule. I like our chances when we start to play easier teams.

Yeah. Next week we open a homestand against a high A club from Bismark.

[dsmith421]

Seriously, this would solve nothing but give us a new manager for everyone to heap the blame for losses on. He would be nothing more than a scapegoat. Maybe management just needs to figure it out. Everyone always wants to fire somebody and think it resolved something.

I don't necessarily think he should be fired, I'm just a little surprised that there hasn't even been any speculation that he's under fire. MLB Network, ESPN, etc. -- no one is talking about Dusty as a manager on the hot seat.

I do think something needs to be done. The team just seems complacent and self-satisfied, as you noted on the previous page. I don't know what it is.

[OldXOhio]

Seriously, this would solve nothing but give us a new manager for everyone to heap the blame for losses on. He would be nothing more than a scapegoat. Maybe management just needs to figure it out. Everyone always wants to fire somebody and think it resolved something.

C'mon, you've got to agree. If he can't motivate these guys, he isn't going to get by on his game strategy. The players manager's team has been flat most of the season. What he brings ain't working.

[OldXOhio]

We're ready to explode, I can just feel it.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Yeah. Next week we open a homestand against a high A club from Bismark.

This team would still find a way to outscore them for the series and then still lose that same series.

If they are not unlucky or cursed, what are they? Chokers?

Guaranteed: If the Reds score a bunch (or win by more than 3), the next day they will lose by one and struggle to score runs.

If they win a couple or a few in a row and you start to get excited, prepare for disappointment as they will then be swept by an inferior opponent or lose a series to a minor league team.

For as bad as everything as been it's actually been quite predictable.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

C'mon, you've got to agree. If he can't motivate these guys, he isn't going to get by on his game strategy. The players manager's team has been flat most of the season. What he brings ain't working.


Dusty and Marvin Lewis are as safe as a coach/manager can be in this town.

Neither will ever be fired. They can only get kudos when the team wins and the blame can always be on something/someone else when they lose.

Their jobs are safe forever and every once in a while their teams will win and they're considered geniuses.

[traderumor]

C'mon, you've got to agree. If he can't motivate these guys, he isn't going to get by on his game strategy. The players manager's team has been flat most of the season. What he brings ain't working.Why do I have to agree? Dusty is not the problem, and he wasn't in RZ World this year even until they started struggling.

Last year, crickets. Not given his due, but still, very little criticism once it became apparent that we were going to be successful.

The Reds need an above average starter and Chapman to be an upgrade over Arroyo in the rotation and they are back to contending in 2012. Changing the manager would just show cluelessness on the part of the organization, and I think they're smarter than that.

[kaldaniels]

Don't overlook what good defense can do. If Votto doesn't flub that bunt play and if Frazier knocks down that double, things look awful different. But those things don't show up in the box score...

[traderumor]

Dusty and Marvin Lewis are as safe as a coach/manager can be in this town.

Neither will ever be fired. They can only get kudos when the team wins and the blame can always be on something/someone else when they lose.

Their jobs are safe forever and every once in a while their teams will win and they're considered geniuses.All professional coaches are fired, esp. in this age. There is always time for a change, but Dusty at this stage is most likely not the problem. But, I guess we could fire him now, get some dead cat bounce and finish above .500. Yippee!! Then what?

[WVRedsFan]

I would have batted Heisey there as well. But it never ever should have come to that. The veterans on this team are a mental drag. I can't wait for September call ups.

Even Votto with the brain fart. Masset is just awful lately, Phillips is just not hitting the ball. Shortstop is a mess. Bruce and Stubbs are disappointing, left field is a mess, and Hanigan come to earth. That's not even mentioning the pitching staff, with especially the relief guys falling off a cliff. Starters give us 3 quality starts with a 2.47 ERA while the bullpen gives up 4 runs in 4 innings. Over. Time to plan for next year.

[reds1869]

Even Votto with the brain fart. Masset is just awful lately, Phillips is just not hitting the ball. Shortstop is a mess. Bruce and Stubbs are disappointing, left field is a mess, and Hanigan come to earth. That's not even mentioning the pitching staff, with especially the relief guys falling off a cliff. Starters give us 3 quality starts with a 2.47 ERA while the bullpen gives up 4 runs in 4 innings. Over. Time to plan for next year.

So, wait, what you're saying is they aren't right on the verge of busting out?

[WVRedsFan]

So, wait, what you're saying is they aren't right on the verge of busting out?
Maybe the are and maybe they're not. I'm not a bit wishy-washy. But one thing is for sure, they won't be going post-season, so it's the future not this year.

Short answer: NO.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

All professional coaches are fired, esp. in this age. There is always time for a change, but Dusty at this stage is most likely not the problem. But, I guess we could fire him now, get some dead cat bounce and finish above .500. Yippee!! Then what?

IMO, he should have never been hired.

IMO, he should have never been overpaid $3.5M a year.

IMO, He should have never been given an extension.

I don't care about the other stuff. This team is done this year. With that said, what makes anyone think it will be different next year with Dusty at the helm? Why should he get all these years and a guy like Mackanin didn't?

I'm not being knee jerk. I couldn't care less if they fired him now. It wouldn't matter. But if ever there was a reason to fire a manager, I would think this would be it. Otherwise there would be no reason to ever fire anyone.

[alloverjr]

The Reds need an above average starter and Chapman to be an upgrade over Arroyo in the rotation and they are back to contending in 2012. Changing the manager would just show cluelessness on the part of the organization, and I think they're smarter than that.

My opinion is that they are farther away from contending as far as puzzle pieces go than you believe. And it's just my opinion. Yes, they need a solid starter. Maybe an ace, maybe a 2, but certainly a consistent, proven hurler. But until Mes comes up and produces (if he does), catcher is a sore spot with me as is LF, SS and 3B. All of those spots may be addressed from within. Maybe not. I'd love to see Votto move to LF and throw Alonso at 1B. Give Cozart the rest of this year post injury for an audition, and get Francisco up once he's able in case they operate on Rolen's good shoulder by mistake. I'd let Mes catch 60% of the games from this point out. This team went into 2011 with way too many ?'s (which is why I picked them to finish below .500) and I'd hate to se them not get a chance to answer some of those in the last 2 months of this year.

[Tony Cloninger]

Does Votto seem disinterested on the filed more often than not...... this year?

I know he cannot be perfect but he has had some lapses on the field and in some throws.....that I have not seen him do all the years he has been here.

[alloverjr]

Does Votto seem disinterested on the filed more often than not...... this year?

I know he cannot be perfect but he has had some lapses on the field and in some throws.....that I have not seen him do all the years he has been here.

Frustrated more like it. Although the knock on Votto coming up was that he was not even an average 1B. So maybe we expect a little better play out of him than we should.

[Tony Cloninger]

My opinion is that they are farther away from contending as far as puzzle pieces go than you believe. And it's just my opinion. Yes, they need a solid starter. Maybe an ace, maybe a 2, but certainly a consistent, proven hurler. But until Mes comes up and produces (if he does), catcher is a sore spot with me as is LF, SS and 3B. All of those spots may be addressed from within. Maybe not. I'd love to see Votto move to LF and throw Alonso at 1B. Give Cozart the rest of this year post injury for an audition, and get Francisco up once he's able in case they operate on Rolen's good shoulder by mistake. I'd let Mes catch 60% of the games from this point out. This team went into 2011 with way too many ?'s (which is why I picked them to finish below .500) and I'd hate to se them not get a chance to answer some of those in the last 2 months of this year.


I agree with this very much. I also do not see baker as the manager to take this thing forward.

[OldXOhio]

Why do I have to agree? Dusty is not the problem, and he wasn't in RZ World this year even until they started struggling.

No, that's your opinion. I think he's been sub par most of the season.




The Reds need an above average starter and Chapman to be an upgrade over Arroyo in the rotation and they are back to contending in 2012. Changing the manager would just show cluelessness on the part of the organization, and I think they're smarter than that.

Oh so improvements can be made to the lineup, but not the manager? You act like Dusty has the market cornered on good managing, that his style is sure to work with a few tweaks. Of course Dusty isnt the main reason why the Reds are this lousy. But this team clearly has been uninspired for some time. Fire him now? I never said that. Besides what's the point unless he and Walt aren't on the sam page. Consider replacing him in the offseason? What has he done to prevent you from considering it?

[traderumor]

No, that's your opinion. I think he's been sub par most of the season.




Oh so improvements can be made to the lineup, but not the manager? You act like Dusty has the market cornered on good managing, that his style is sure to work with a few tweaks. Of course Dusty isnt the main reason why the Reds are this lousy. But this team clearly has been uninspired for some time. Fire him now? I never said that. Besides what's the point unless he and Walt aren't on the sam page. Consider replacing him in the offseason? What has he done to prevent you from considering it?Improve the starting rotation, then if they are still "uninspired," start looking at a managerial change.

My entire point is wrapped around how "fire the manager" rarely is the real solution, and is rarely even a start to the solution. It is often a move to make it appear that someone in charge is doing something to change things. I saw enough of that garbage during the Lindner regime to last me a lifetime. They loved the scapegoat.

Get Dusty better players, esp. pitching, esp. starting pitching, and it would be amazing how "inspired" the team looks.