Pennant Race Update

[texasdave]

Cardinals fall to the Pirates 6-2. Brewers up 3-0 in the bottom of the 8th. St. Louis about to fall 7 back. Reds will be 11.5 back.


With a Milwaukee win the Brewers will be 20 games over at 71-51. They are pace to win 94 games. For the 59-62 Reds to get there they will have to go 35-6 the rest of the way.

Expect some very quiet game threads from here on out.

[nux fan]

there is no pennant race

[Reds]

I expected better. I witnessed a loss on the road at the Cubs and a loss at home during a rainy night in Cincinnati. We need to reel off 14 of 15 to have any chance.

[Razzle]

Cardinals fall to the Pirates 6-2. Brewers up 3-0 in the bottom of the 8th. St. Louis about to fall 7 back. Reds will be 11.5 back.


With a Milwaukee win the Brewers will be 20 games over at 71-51. They are pace to win 94 games. For the 59-62 Reds to get there they will have to go 35-6 the rest of the way.

Expect some very quiet game threads from here on out.

Not that it makes much difference, but the Cards are only six back, not seven.

[Vottomatic]

Not that it makes much difference, but the Cards are only six back, not seven.

Give it time. :laugh:

No playoffs.

Albert leaving for greener pastures.

Depleted farm system.

Goofball manager and pitching coach.

Babified roster.

Good times ahead for the Cardinals! :beerme:

[Vottomatic]

Cardinals fall to the Pirates 6-2. Brewers up 3-0 in the bottom of the 8th. St. Louis about to fall 7 back. Reds will be 11.5 back.


With a Milwaukee win the Brewers will be 20 games over at 71-51. They are pace to win 94 games. For the 59-62 Reds to get there they will have to go 35-6 the rest of the way.

Expect some very quiet game threads from here on out.

I went and looked at the standings this morning and then was coming over here to post the exact same thread and comments. You beat me to it.

But I'm more interested in the Cardinals not making the playoffs more than anything right now. Heck, I even hope the Reds lay down in their series against the Brewers to put the fork in the Cardinals!!!!

Anything bad that happens to the Cardinals is good for me.

[texasdave]

I expected better. I witnessed a loss on the road at the Cubs and a loss at home during a rainy night in Cincinnati. We need to reel off 14 of 15 to have any chance.

If that was a Monday night game against Colorado I was there. I have to say the new scoreboard is awesome.

[texasdave]

Not that it makes much difference, but the Cards are only six back, not seven.

Oops. Six back. The Redbirds need to go 29-11 to get to 94 wins.

[texasdave]

More bummer numbers.

The Brewers do not have to win another road game this season and they still, quite likely, will win the division. They are a juggernaut at home this season winning three out of every four home games they play. If they keep winning at that rate they will garner sixteen more home wins. This will give them 87 wins for the 2011 campaign. That would give the Cardinals a glimmer of hope. But St. Louis would have to finish up the season 22-18 to gain a tie.
That is amazing. It is the middle of August and that team can lose out on the road and still have an excellent chance of popping the corks on a bunch of champagne bottles.

[texasdave]

If you are looking for silver linings, Bob, Walt and Dusty are still happy with their team. And 24 out of 25 of the Reds players still think everything will be fine if they just start playing like they are capable. Miguel Cairo actually knows that the team stinks.

[Vottomatic]

If you are looking for silver linings, Bob, Walt and Dusty are still happy with their team. And 24 out of 25 of the Reds players still think everything will be fine if they just start playing like they are capable. Miguel Cairo actually knows that the team stinks.

:laugh:

[nux fan]

yeah Dusty says things are huge, really big, and that they are happy with shortstop position

[R_Webb18]

cards gonna beat brewers all 6 games and reds will win them 6.
reds then beat brewers there 3 games and be out what 2 games :)

[nux fan]

how bout reds twenty games out in fourth place

[texasdave]

cards gonna beat brewers all 6 games and reds will win them 6.
reds then beat brewers there 3 games and be out what 2 games :)

And then hell freezes over and nobody complains about how hot is has been this summer. :lol:

[Vottomatic]

cards gonna beat brewers all 6 games and reds will win them 6.
reds then beat brewers there 3 games and be out what 2 games :)

.....and then my girlfriend turns into a 12-pack and a pizza? :eek:

[Razzle]

Give it time. :laugh:

No playoffs.

I guess that would make two of us, only I get more pleasure out of my team winning than the your team losing, so you are probably happier than I am.


Albert leaving for greener pastures.

Either this and $16 mil to spend or Albert being retained. It's not like Albert leaving is the worst thing that could happen to the Cardinals.


Depleted farm system.

If you keep saying it that makes it true.


Goofball manager and pitching coach.

Well, we completely agree here.


Babified roster.

I'm not even going to begin to guess what this means.


Good times ahead for the Cardinals! :beerme:

It's probably not my favorite time in my Cardinal fandom, but if we struggle for a bit I still don't think we'll have a playoff drought of say... fifteen years, eh? ;)

[Reds]

If that was a Monday night game against Colorado I was there. I have to say the new scoreboard is awesome.

New scoreboard is sweet. Even sweeter after coming from Wrigley, which has no videoboard.

I sat in left field by the foul pole until the rain delay, then I started moving around.

[Vottomatic]

Cardinals 8.5 out.

Life is good.

[texasdave]

Milwaukee is now on a pace to win 96 games. If the Reds win out they can get to 97. That makes it simple. No more losses.

[TheBigLebowski]

Milwaukee is now on a pace to win 96 games. If the Reds win out they can get to 97. That makes it simple. No more losses.

No way this team possibly loses again. This a well-constructed, well-crafted winning machine.

[TheBigLebowski]

I must tip my cap to the Brewers org, fwiw. They saw a window of opportunity and took it. In so doing, they gutted their farm system and made their level of success completely unsustainable considering their media market, but they alleviated my potential distress in a year in which we could not possibly hold back the Cardinals.

[Vottomatic]

I must tip my cap to the Brewers org, fwiw. They saw a window of opportunity and took it. In so doing, they gutted their farm system and made their level of success completely unsustainable considering their media market, but they alleviated my potential distress in a year in which we could not possibly hold back the Cardinals.

Amen. I'd rather the Brewers win it than the Cardinals.

Both teams have taken a hit to their farm systems. In the end, the Reds may have had a letdown this season, but be the far better team in the long run. But they still have holes to fill and need to address them this offseason.

The Reds could be a powerhouse if ownership was willing to do it. Seriously.

Cueto is an ace. Add an ace, and this team is dealin'. Leake is a solid starter. Take your pick for the 4th starter. Most teams 5th starter is somewhat filler anyway.

Votto is an MVP player. Add a Matt Holliday type player to hit behind him and you add improvement to Votto's performance by protecting him in the lineup and you solve the 4-hitter spot by adding a legit 4-hole hitter, duh.

Two impact players could make this team a serious contender. The question will be, are the Reds serious about being contenders?

[DGullett35]

I hope we can get a right handed bat with some pop in the offseason. preferably a LF. I also would like to see them seriously go after James Sheilds. I think he would fit perfectly in the rotation. but anywhoo I do love the fact that the Cardinals are almost as done as we are in this division. It's sad to say but the Brew Crew deserves it. there GM went out and made the moves he was supposed to to make that team a contender. They had a good team before but you didnt here there GM saying they were content with what they had. He may have cost them in the long run but hes got some balls. went all in for this year

[Old NDN]

Amen. I'd rather the Brewers win it than the Cardinals.

Both teams have taken a hit to their farm systems. In the end, the Reds may have had a letdown this season, but be the far better team in the long run. But they still have holes to fill and need to address them this offseason.

The Reds could be a powerhouse if ownership was willing to do it. Seriously.

Cueto is an ace. Add an ace, and this team is dealin'. Leake is a solid starter. Take your pick for the 4th starter. Most teams 5th starter is somewhat filler anyway.

Votto is an MVP player. Add a Matt Holliday type player to hit behind him and you add improvement to Votto's performance by protecting him in the lineup and you solve the 4-hitter spot by adding a legit 4-hole hitter, duh.

Two impact players could make this team a serious contender. The question will be, are the Reds serious about being contenders?

Several of us have been saying basicly, the same thing over and over, just in a variety of ways. Many thought the Brewers' defense would be their downfall, but it hasn't yet.
As for gutting the farm system, teams are constantly drafting/adding potential talent. When they have an opportunity to add a proven player, they trade potential for now..... or sign a free agent in the offseason. Neither method describes the Reds MO.

[texasdave]

Several of us have been saying basicly, the same thing over and over, just in a variety of ways. Many thought the Brewers' defense would be their downfall, but it hasn't yet.
As for gutting the farm system, teams are constantly drafting/adding potential talent. When they have an opportunity to add a proven player, they trade potential for now..... or sign a free agent in the offseason. Neither method describes the Reds MO.

Cards get Wainwright back next season. They have two of the top five BA minor leaguers, both starting pitchers.
Brewers have their entire starting rotation back. They will draw close to 3 million, and with additional monies from their playoff appearance, be able to fill in holes via free agents.

If anyone thinks the Reds are simply going to waltz back to the top of the division in 2012 they are mistaken. Walt "Wake me in September" Jocketty wasted a year and the window is closing.

[texasdave]

Bud Selig needs to order drug tests for all 25 Brewers. Honestly, what has gotten into the Brew Crew? They have won the first game today and lead in the second. If they hold on they will have won 24 of their last 27. If they hold on the Reds will be 14 games back. Freakin' ridiculous.

[Vottomatic]

What makes you think Wainwright will be the same Wainwright? Doesn't happen over night.

[Red Raindog]

Milwaukee is now on a pace to win 96 games. If the Reds win out they can get to 97. That makes it simple. No more losses.

It is not as bad as it seems --- we are only 12 behind in the loss column!

[texasdave]

What makes you think Wainwright will be the same Wainwright? Doesn't happen over night.

Wainwright doesn't have to be the same Wainwright. He just has to be better than Jake Westbrook and whomever the Cardinals throw out there as a fifth starter.

[texasdave]

LaRussa uses 4 pitchers in the top of the 9th and his defensive replacements - Corey Patterson and Rafael Furcal - are forced to bat in the bottom of the 9th instead of Matt Holliday and Lance Berkman. Cards lose 2-1. Life is good.

[Old NDN]

LaRussa uses 4 pitchers in the top of the 9th and his defensive replacements - Corey Patterson and Rafael Furcal - are forced to bat in the bottom of the 9th instead of Matt Holliday and Lance Berkman. Cards lose 2-1. Life is good.

I was watching it all unfold on the MLB Network. Reynolds, Williams were commenting on TLR's habit of overmanaging. Cards better look in the rear view mirror. Here come the Redlegs!

[Vottomatic]

Wainwright doesn't have to be the same Wainwright. He just has to be better than Jake Westbrook and whomever the Cardinals throw out there as a fifth starter.

Cardinals have alot of decisions to make in the offseason.

According to Cot's Baseball Contracts, here is their situation:

Under contract for more than a million -
Holliday $17M
Lohse $12M
Westbrook $8.5M
Garcia $???? (4 yrs - $27M)
Approximately $44M total

Club Options:
Carpenter $15M
Wainwright $9M
Molina $6M
Approximately $30M

Arbitration (listing last year's salary):
Theriot $3M
Schumaker $3M
McClellan $1.5M
Motte (minimum)
Boggs (minimum)
Guessing approximately $13M total

Free Agents:
Pujols
Berkman
Laird
Batista
Punto
Tallet

They probably have $90+ million already allocated before signing the free agents, if you include those making less than $1M. If they sign both Berkman and Pujols, they're looking at an all-time Cardinals high in payroll in the neighborhood of $130-$140M. I don't see that happening. Which means they try and sign Pujols first, and if he leaves, Berkman is the backup option at 1B. They don't sign both. Or if they sign Pujols, they may not pick up the options on one or two players. Coming off TJ surgery, Wainwright might not get picked up.

[texasdave]

With the real race over the only excitement left is to see who wins the mythical 2011 NL Central Pythag Crown:

Milwaukee 70-60
St. Louis 69-59
Cincinnati 68-59

That would have been one heckuva race down the stretch, if Pythag determined playoff berths.

[Vottomatic]

Brewers magic number 11 with 20 games to go.

Cards 10.5 out. Put a fork in them. They are well done.

Celebration time!!!!! Woo-hoo!!!!! Cards officially suck!!!!!! Goodbye Pujols!!!!!!

Wainwright coming off TJ surgery. Carpenter on the downside of his career. Garcia looking more and more hittable.

Cards are going to have it rough for a few years. Woo-hoo!!!!!

[Stray]

Looks like the only race worth paying attention to is the AL West.

[texasdave]

Brewers magic number 11 with 20 games to go.

Cards 10.5 out. Put a fork in them. They are well done.

Celebration time!!!!! Woo-hoo!!!!! Cards officially suck!!!!!! Goodbye Pujols!!!!!!

Wainwright coming off TJ surgery. Carpenter on the downside of his career. Garcia looking more and more hittable.

Cards are going to have it rough for a few years. Woo-hoo!!!!!

And if the fan of any team knows what a team that is gonna have it rough for a few years looks like, it's a Reds fan. We have watching sorry teams down to a science.

[nux fan]

after the first five games this year Hal McCoy derisively wrote that the Brewers were going to be no match for the Reds this year. He actually got that right, the Brewers are no match for the incessant inanity, incompetence, insufferable inability, and inappropriate managerial and front office maneuvers

[texasdave]

after the first five games this year Hal McCoy derisively wrote that the Brewers were going to be no match for the Reds this year. He actually got that right, the Brewers are no match for the incessant inanity, incompetence, insufferable inability, and inappropriate managerial and front office maneuvers

To be honest, after the first five games there was a whole lot of wire-to-wire talk going on. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a tripwire and the team has stumbled ever since. After a solid 25-17 start this team has gone 44-55. Anyone want to play the 'small sample size' card on that?

[nux fan]

obviously you are correct, but then the veteran sports writer should not have opined on such a small sample size

[texasdave]

obviously you are correct, but then the veteran sports writer should not have opined on such a small sample size

Yep. Hall of Fame McCoy has been around baseball long enough to know. But selling that newspaper, do they sell more than one these days?, is the name of the game.

[nux fan]

his article after the first five games had as much truth as declaring that pat corrales should have started in stead of bench

[texasdave]

Hal making that statement after five games made about as much sense as batting Drew Stubbs in the leadoff spot.

[Vottomatic]

It's funnier watching the Cardinals implode. You know the Reds will rebound next year. Too much talent. Cardinals are making their last hurrahs. The decline is imminent for them.