2011 Bengals Discussion Part II

[Eric_the_Red]

Well, if the Jets get in, the only team they've beaten is Dallas, and they might end up 8-8. The Squealers have beaten only the Bengals and Pats, who have winning records. Denver's only win against a team with a winning record, is the Bengals. Atlanta has a grand total on one win against a team with a winning record. All in all, I think the Bengals have been ok. They've beaten the several teams who will end up around .500 (Titans, Seahawks, Cards), and every other game with the exception of one was within one score of winning. I don't see a whole lot of difference between them, the Jets, or Denver/Oakland as far as teams go. And that is who they are fighting for the playoffs with. I certainly don't see any teams below them that are better than they are.

Very true. Good post. I didn't realize there were so many teams in a similar position as the Bengals, although I'd take some exception to saying the Steelers "only" beat the Pats. That is a solid win.

[Eric_the_Red]

So basically, you wouldn't take the Bengals seriously unless they reach the AFC Championship game? Don't you think that's expecting a little too much all things considered?

If they made it to the Divisional game and stayed in it, even a close loss, and I would give them more credit. Frankly, I think they should beat the Texans. Any playoff team should win if their opponent is starting their third string QB. Do you think the Texans should be favored against the Bengals?

[Eric_the_Red]

I don't think Cincinnati is one of the top sports towns in this country but I also think they've supported the Bengals to a fault. They gave Mike Brown 6 straight yrs of sellouts regardless of the product on the field

This. 3 winning seasons and zero playoff wins over the last 21 seasons is abysmal, especially when you factor in the parity of the NFL. What I've come to realize is Mike Brown simply doesn't care, and why would he? Sunday will sell out, and in 2012 more fans will jump on season tickets. Wash, rinse, repeat. And all of this with outrageous ticket prices, almost $70 for the worst seats in the house (a house that taxpayers paid for).

If Mike Brown really wanted to win, he would hire a GM, improve scouting and build a practice bubble. Heck, even 1 or 2 of these things may convince me he values winning over doing the minimum required to turn a nice profit. But why would he do these things when he can get sellouts and fans by having a successful season every 5 or 6 years?

[Sea Ray]

If they made it to the Divisional game and stayed in it, even a close loss, and I would give them more credit. Frankly, I think they should beat the Texans. Any playoff team should win if their opponent is starting their third string QB. Do you think the Texans should be favored against the Bengals?

What difference does one game make? Does it make any difference that the Seattle Seahawks beat the Saints in a playoff game last year. Do we now take them "seriously" or are they still a very flawed team that was a fluke playoff team?

The truth is whatever team makes it into the #6 slot in the AFC will be a very flawed team. If our Bengals become that #6 team, it'll not mean that they're "to be taken seriously". It'll just mean that they're better than the Jets, Broncos, Raiders etc

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

What difference does one game make? Does it make any difference that the Seattle Seahawks beat the Saints in a playoff game last year. Do we now take them "seriously" or are they still a very flawed team that was a fluke playoff team?

The truth is whatever team makes it into the #6 slot in the AFC will be a very flawed team. If our Bengals become that #6 team, it'll not mean that they're "to be taken seriously". It'll just mean that they're better than the Jets, Broncos, Raiders etc

I don't believe this at all. You don't have to go back very far to find a No. 6 seed in the AFC winning the Super Bowl.

Win or lose this Sunday vs. Baltimore or next Sunday at Houston, the Bengals have certainly assured themselves of being "taken seriously" heading forward. Especially when you consider the draft position they have the next two years and the key pieces already in place.

[Mario-Rijo]

This. 3 winning seasons and zero playoff wins over the last 21 seasons is abysmal, especially when you factor in the parity of the NFL. What I've come to realize is Mike Brown simply doesn't care, and why would he? Sunday will sell out, and in 2012 more fans will jump on season tickets. Wash, rinse, repeat. And all of this with outrageous ticket prices, almost $70 for the worst seats in the house (a house that taxpayers paid for).

If Mike Brown really wanted to win, he would hire a GM, improve scouting and build a practice bubble. Heck, even 1 or 2 of these things may convince me he values winning over doing the minimum required to turn a nice profit. But why would he do these things when he can get sellouts and fans by having a successful season every 5 or 6 years?

Eh, ya know it's easy to continue to write the same obit (so to speak) over and over again just changing the name. There are 2 reasons why a team would go thru what the Bengals have went thru since Mike took over, 1 he doesn't care or 2 he doesn't know how to build a winner. I happen to think it's the latter, he never fully understood as evidenced by the head coaches he employed over the span up until Marvin who was more Katies choice. I think he is starting to understand it all a bit better but more importantly he knows enough to listen to those who know more than he does. He still doesn't have a GM or a big scouting staff and the quality of player he is getting time and time again now is of a much higher level and don't look now but without all the baggage they used to come with, learning all the time. I never bought into the whole GM and scouting thing, Pittsburgh has the 2nd smallest scouting department and at the very least that should prove the status quo isn't necessarily the way to go.

But at any rate I really wanted to comment on your thoughts about, eh to cut to the chase here the fact you aren't real impressed with the Bengals. I get why one would from afar feel this way and to be fair even up close there reasons to be a bit skeptical about certain things. But the Bengals are fully capable of beating any team in the AFC. I don't feel they could beat a team like New Orleans right now (as the teams are constructed at this moment) but anything could happen before they would play such a team anyway. The NFL is about mismatches and the Bengals have some guys who can present serious problems for other teams most notably Dunlap, Atkins, Whitworth & Green. 4 guys at critical spots and they have few real weak spots in comparison to other teams. Well the RG position is worrisome right now and the lack of deep range at CB could be construed as such as well. But both issues have potential answers.

The Texans have a 3rd string QB who though has some talent is still very inexperienced. The Pats have no real deep threat and are about as shoddy against the pass as it gets. The Ravens are as suspect against the pass also IMO, if a team can block their D-Line (and we have shown a propensity for doing so in the recent past). Not to mention the serious struggles the Ravens have shown on the road this season (extremely damning of their QB/offense). If we beat the Ravens away from their home this weekend they lose some home games. The AFC west division champ whoever it is as flawed if not more so than we are. In fact the only team that has and is capable of handing us our backsides is Pittsburgh and if I'm not mistaken we were missing our star defender both times we played them but at the very least the time we were smoked, I think the only time this year. And that player (Dunlap) would be critical to our ability to help against the one weakness we showed against them, the inability to stop the pass more specifically the deep one.

Only the Packers & Saints would give me any pause of all NFL teams (well the Cowboys also perhaps if they had D. Murray back at RB). Anyone else we can hang with IMO and I can back up why on every count.

[Eric_the_Red]

Interesting analysis, M-R. Obviously I disagree with much of it, but I can see certain points about the other teams in the AFC. I do not agree at all with your more positive opinion on Mike Brown, but I suppose time will tell which of our gut feelings is correct.

[Ohayou]

A.J. Green named to Pro Bowl, Atkins snubbed.

[hebroncougar]

Very true. Good post. I didn't realize there were so many teams in a similar position as the Bengals, although I'd take some exception to saying the Steelers "only" beat the Pats. That is a solid win.

I guess my point was, the Steelers really have only one quality win, if people are discounting the Bengals.

[Sea Ray]

I don't believe this at all. You don't have to go back very far to find a No. 6 seed in the AFC winning the Super Bowl.



Are you sure about that? Let's look at the possibilities for the #6 seed: Tenn, Oak, Den, NY Jets and the Bengals. Which one isn't a flawed team? Which one doesn't have significant downsides?

[kaldaniels]

So who has the Bengals beating the Ravens (who need a win to get a bye, assuming the Steelers beat the Browns)?

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Are you sure about that? Let's look at the possibilities for the #6 seed: Tenn, Oak, Den, NY Jets and the Bengals. Which one isn't a flawed team? Which one doesn't have significant downsides?

I'm not saying those teams aren't flawed. All I'm saying is a No. 6 team (a team that, by your definition, has to be flawed) won a Super Bowl just a couple of years ago.

And I'd argue that every single team in the NFL besides the Packers is flawed. The Ravens, arguably the AFC's second-best team, have losses this year to the Titans, Seahawks and Jaguars, all teams that the Bengals have beaten. The 49ers, the NFC's second-best team, is anemic on offense.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

So who has the Bengals beating the Ravens (who need a win to get a bye, assuming the Steelers beat the Browns)?

I think the Bengals find a way on Sunday in front of a jacked-up, sold-out crowd.

[medford]

Mo Eggers was on 700wlw and reported that the Bengals game has officially soldout.

[jmt5887]

I'm not saying those teams aren't flawed. All I'm saying is a No. 6 team (a team that, by your definition, has to be flawed) won a Super Bowl just a couple of years ago.

And I'd argue that every single team in the NFL besides the Packers is flawed. The Ravens, arguably the AFC's second-best team, have losses this year to the Titans, Seahawks and Jaguars, all teams that the Bengals have beaten. The 49ers, the NFC's second-best team, is anemic on offense.

Last Year a NFC #6 seed won the Superbowl. and in 2005 a AFC #6 Seed won it. once you get in Anything can and usually does happen.

[forfreelin04]

Based on what the talking heads expected for the Bengals in 2011, 7 wins would have been a miracle. Did you see how bad they were in preseason? The predictions were justified.

If you feel depressed or negative about this team, then you simply aren't a good student of recent history or your standards are way too high for everything.

Kudos to Marvin, Jay, Zim, and the Brown family for proving us all wrong with great drafting, signings and coaching. I hope they play with nothing to lose and hand it to the Ravens!

[Sea Ray]

I'm not saying those teams aren't flawed. All I'm saying is a No. 6 team (a team that, by your definition, has to be flawed) won a Super Bowl just a couple of years ago.

And I'd argue that every single team in the NFL besides the Packers is flawed. The Ravens, arguably the AFC's second-best team, have losses this year to the Titans, Seahawks and Jaguars, all teams that the Bengals have beaten. The 49ers, the NFC's second-best team, is anemic on offense.

Then where did you disagree with me? I said that the #6 team was flawed. I never commented on whether they could get hot and go to the Super Bowl. You correctly state that those are two different things. I'm puzzled where your disagreement is

[cincrazy]

Like when I jumped on the Colts bandwagon when I got a Marvin Harrison jersey before Manning was even drafted? Please don't assume you know everything about me, or I will just start making things up about you and posting them as the truth.

And if you don't think that, besides drafting Manning, the Bengals and Colts organizations are very different in terms of wanting to win and knowing how to treat their fans, then I'm not sure we have much more to discuss.

Well, there were some similarities between the two franchises. The Irsays were hated for a long time, and not until Irsay senior passed away that things really started to change. They ran the Colts like a mom and pop operation for years just like Mike Brown did. The difference is, Bill Polian came on board in Indy, as well as Tony Dungy. Instantly pumping up their credibility, and for good reason. I don't see Mike Brown ever making that step.

But in fairness to him, it's been a long time since the Bengals were the joke of the league because of on-field performance. The 90s are long since dead. He doesn't do everything right, or most things right, but he's doing a lot more right than he used to, whether it's luck or not.

[cincrazy]

This. 3 winning seasons and zero playoff wins over the last 21 seasons is abysmal, especially when you factor in the parity of the NFL. What I've come to realize is Mike Brown simply doesn't care, and why would he? Sunday will sell out, and in 2012 more fans will jump on season tickets. Wash, rinse, repeat. And all of this with outrageous ticket prices, almost $70 for the worst seats in the house (a house that taxpayers paid for).

If Mike Brown really wanted to win, he would hire a GM, improve scouting and build a practice bubble. Heck, even 1 or 2 of these things may convince me he values winning over doing the minimum required to turn a nice profit. But why would he do these things when he can get sellouts and fans by having a successful season every 5 or 6 years?

Yes, three winning seasons in 21 years. But also, three winning seasons in the last seven seasons. Still not great, but when you factor in some 8-8s and 7-9s... not bad. For the Bengals anyways, haha.

Look, I agree with most of what you say. He's a cheap $%@. However, the minimal scouting department hasn't hurt them in recent years. And the current coaching staff does a great job pitching in and making it clear what the team needs are, and Mike Brown drafts accordingly.

[Chip R]

Mo Eggers was on 700wlw and reported that the Bengals game has officially soldout.

I wonder how many people will come disguised as empty seats.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I wonder how many people will come disguised as empty seats.

Every seat in PBS is now sold out, including single seats and the high-priced club level seats.

I have a feeling this is going to be one of the loudest, most jacked-up crowds in stadium history.

[5TimeWSChamps]

Gregg Doyel absolutely killed it here...

www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/16625802/bengals-problem-isnt-shortage-of-fans-its-the-owner

[traderumor]

I think its silly to not go to a professional sports game because one thinks the owner is a schmuck. Strictly personal opinion, but that just seems like so much excuse making to me. And I'd agree with cincrazy on the recent performance not being commensurate with the poor attendance.

[Redhook]

I think its silly to not go to a professional sports game because one thinks the owner is a schmuck. Strictly personal opinion, but that just seems like so much excuse making to me. And I'd agree with cincrazy on the recent performance not being commensurate with the poor attendance.

He's way worse than a schmuck. I'll never go to another game as long as he's the owner. No chance. That evil man won't get any extra money from me.

[MWM]

Yes, that editorial by Doyel really nails it perfectly.

[Stray]

What is our excuse for not supporting the Bearcats? or the Reds lower than average attendance? Oh right, because we ran Bob Huggins out of town and the Reds play on school nights.

I'm sure there are people not going because of Mike Brown, but I don't buy that as the main reason. I think it's just another excuse made by Cincinnati fans.

I think the real reasons are HDTVs and a city whose fans are either jaded, living in the past, or a little bit of both.

[Chip R]

Every seat in PBS is now sold out, including single seats and the high-priced club level seats.

I have a feeling this is going to be one of the loudest, most jacked-up crowds in stadium history.

Doesn't mean every seat will be filled.

[CTA513]

attendance doesn't usually go up until the following season when you have franchises that don't win consistently.

[Hoosier Red]

Yes, three winning seasons in 21 years. But also, three winning seasons in the last seven seasons. Still not great, but when you factor in some 8-8s and 7-9s... not bad. For the Bengals anyways, haha.

Look, I agree with most of what you say. He's a cheap $%@. However, the minimal scouting department hasn't hurt them in recent years. And the current coaching staff does a great job pitching in and making it clear what the team needs are, and Mike Brown drafts accordingly.

I agree with this. The Bengals under Marvin Lewis haven't been great. They've been pretty much the oxford definition of mediocre.

However, the pre-Marvin Lewis Mike Brown Bengals were so bad, it totally distorts the picture of what the Bengals have done recently.

Since 2005 in particular, the Bengals have had 1 year where they've been a consensus top 10 team, 2 years where they underachieved their talent and were in the middle third, 2 years where they exceeded expectations and were in the middle third and 2 years where they were one of the bottom 5 teams.

To me that's a resume you could probably tag on pretty much any team not named the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, or Colts in the last 10 years. Heck, some teams would kill to have that much "success."

This doesn't make Mike Brown a genius. Just someone who has likely overcome his own stubborness. But there's nothing that can be done about the previous 13 years other than hope that Mike Brown actually did learn enough so that we don't go back.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Doesn't mean every seat will be filled.

Just like there are the random empty seats at any sporting event, including Super Bowls, World Series or Stanley Cup Finals.

Stuff happens, I'm sure, leading to someone not using their seat. And if the weather is inclement, some people may opt to watch it at home or in their neighborhood bar. But the overwhelming majority of seats will be filled.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I agree with this. The Bengals under Marvin Lewis haven't been great. They've been pretty much the oxford definition of mediocre.

However, the pre-Marvin Lewis Mike Brown Bengals were so bad, it totally distorts the picture of what the Bengals have done recently.

Since 2005 in particular, the Bengals have had 1 year where they've been a consensus top 10 team, 2 years where they underachieved their talent and were in the middle third, 2 years where they exceeded expectations and were in the middle third and 2 years where they were one of the bottom 5 teams.

To me that's a resume you could probably tag on pretty much any team not named the Steelers, Ravens, Patriots, or Colts in the last 10 years. Heck, some teams would kill to have that much "success."

This doesn't make Mike Brown a genius. Just someone who has likely overcome his own stubborness. But there's nothing that can be done about the previous 13 years other than hope that Mike Brown actually did learn enough so that we don't go back.

There's another team in Ohio that wishes it could do what the Bengals have done the last six years.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/

[traderumor]

What is our excuse for not supporting the Bearcats? or the Reds lower than average attendance? Oh right, because we ran Bob Huggins out of town and the Reds play on school nights.

I'm sure there are people not going because of Mike Brown, but I don't buy that as the main reason. I think it's just another excuse made by Cincinnati fans.

I think the real reasons are HDTVs and a city whose fans are either jaded, living in the past, or a little bit of both.:beerme:

[remdog]

Doyel's article it is right on the money.

You're welcome in LA Bengals. But leave Mike Brown, Katie and her lame husband in Cincinnati.

Rem

[Joseph]

Doyel's article it is right on the money.

You're welcome in LA Bengals. But leave Mike Brown, Katie and her lame husband in Cincinnati.

Rem

If you take our football team you have to take Mike, Katie and Troy too. All or none.

[Dom Heffner]

At the end of the day we have an attorney making football personnel decisions, which is not a sustainable model for success. They've proven this for two decades now, regardless if somebody would be thankful to have them somewhere else.

That's like saying you should eat grub worms for dinner tonight because there are people somewhere else who would think they hit the jackpot with a dinner like that.

[Playadlc]

Dan Hoard (https://twitter.com/Dan_Hoard)




If #Bengals make playoffs...would be 3rd trip in last 7 years. Only 10 teams have more in that span (11 if Cowboys beat Giants).

[Dom Heffner]

Dan Hoard (https://twitter.com/Dan_Hoard)




If #Bengals make playoffs...would be 3rd trip in last 7 years. Only 10 teams have more in that span (11 if Cowboys beat Giants).

I think Bengals fans are smart enough to know that the schedule plays a huge part in the Bengals' recent success.

They've been bounced in the first round every time, and there isn't a soul alive who thinks they will do otherwise this year.

They lost to a Texans team at home who had their third string QB in.

Not ready for primetime, and they never will be until they get a football person and not an attorney and his relatives making player decisions.

[Redsfaithful]

What is our excuse for not supporting the Bearcats? or the Reds lower than average attendance? Oh right, because we ran Bob Huggins out of town and the Reds play on school nights.

The Reds have been worse than the Bengals since Marvin Lewis came to town. This is something people seem to enjoy ignoring, I've never been able to figure it out, but it's why the Reds attendance is so bad. Save for two years ('99 and '10) they've been terrible since the mid-90s. That's a lot of suffering for the fan base.

[Redsfaithful]

What happened in the 90s is no mystery by the way, but it seems like a lot of people don't understand it. Mike Brown was taking money out of the franchise. It was his inheritance and he was cashing in. He wasn't trying at all, literally. Either he became somewhat satisfied with his cash situation or it finally embarrassed his daughter enough (who it's always been said, pleaded with him to hire Marvin), but things changed in 2003. Mike still holds them back, but not at the same level.

They really should be a decent team for the next few years. They got lucky with Dalton.

[Redsfaithful]

They've been bounced in the first round every time, and there isn't a soul alive who thinks they will do otherwise this year.

They can easily go to Houston and win. And Merrill Hoge said he thought they were one of the most dangerous teams in the AFC, should they get in, so not everyone is that pessimistic. I don't have any illusion that they are a Super Bowl team, but I think they will win on Sunday and beat Houston.

Honestly, they could probably beat New England too. Having a good defensive line has always been the way to beat Brady.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I think Bengals fans are smart enough to know that the schedule plays a huge part in the Bengals' recent success.

They've been bounced in the first round every time, and there isn't a soul alive who thinks they will do otherwise this year.

They lost to a Texans team at home who had their third string QB in.

Not ready for primetime, and they never will be until they get a football person and not an attorney and his relatives making player decisions.

Irrelevant. They also beat three teams that the Ravens lost to. And they beat a team that the Patriots lost to. And they beat a team that the Giants and Bears lost to. And they beat a team that the Saints lost to. And they beat a team that the Texans lost to. Funny how you didn't cherry pick those results?

Are the Bengals the only team in the NFL that has the easy schedule in the rotation? No. They all do. The Bengals took advantage of it this year. So did the Steelers, playing the exact same schedule and beating, largely, the exact same teams. In 2010, the Reds took advantage of a sad-sack division by beating up on the bottom dwellers all season. Should they apologize?

The declinist, defeatist attitude ... soooooooooo Cincinnati.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Doyel's article it is right on the money.

You're welcome in LA Bengals. But leave Mike Brown, Katie and her lame husband in Cincinnati.

Rem

Go out and get your Raiders back if you want a team. Leave the Bengals and Bills and Vikings alone. Your city already lost two teams. Do we really need to see history repeat itself?

[Eric_the_Red]

IMO comparing the recent histories of the Bengals and Reds is ridiculous. The NFL and MLB are set up very differently as far as creating a more even playing field between the have's and have not's. Comparing their records is like comparing a college student's report card to a first grader's as a means of comparing their intelligence.

[RedFanAlways1966]

So did the Steelers, playing the exact same schedule and beating, largely, the exact same teams.

Please tell us how the two matchups between the Steelers and the Bengals ended this year. Kind of an important fact that you failed to mention.

You definitely do not fault the team for their schedule; however, it is OK to tell how it is... the Bengals are really only a mediocre team that benefited from playing two weak "other" divisions this year and a pretty bad Cleveland team 2X. They will have a much better record than anyone predicted as the season started (I predicted 2-14... oops!) and I really enjoyed this season as a diehard fan. But in reality they are not a playoff type team. They are reaping the benefits of their schedule and overall a pretty mediocre NFL (with a few exceptions).

[Hoosier Red]

Please tell us how the two matchups between the Steelers and the Bengals ended this year. Kind of an important fact that you failed to mention.

You definitely do not fault the team for their schedule; however, it is OK to tell how it is... the Bengals are really only a mediocre team that benefited from playing two weak "other" divisions this year and a pretty bad Cleveland team 2X. They will have a much better record than anyone predicted as the season started (I predicted 2-14... oops!) and I really enjoyed this season as a diehard fan. But in reality they are not a playoff type team. They are reaping the benefits of their schedule and overall a pretty mediocre NFL (with a few exceptions).

I think the point he made was a counter to the Bengals aren't any good, they haven't beaten anyone. Well if the Bengals aren't any good, then 2 of the three best wins for Pittsburgh are diminished. So why would we believe Pittsburgh is any good. And Baltimore's basically just made their living on the AFC North which we've now established consists of the mediocre Steelers and the sub mediocre Bengals.

Further, no one was claiming the Bengals are severely underrated and they should be thought of as Super Bowl favorites. They are what they are, somewhere between the 4th and 8th best team in the AFC. If that's really not that good so be it.

[Hoosier Red]

At the end of the day we have an attorney making football personnel decisions, which is not a sustainable model for success. They've proven this for two decades now, regardless if somebody would be thankful to have them somewhere else.



As I and others have pointed out, by saying that they've proven anything over two decades is to largely ignore the massive improvement you've seen from the franchise in the past 9 seasons. The fact that it was a massive improvement to mediocre shouldn't obscure the fact that the way things are run now is so much better than it was before.

I'll give an analogy that I like because it lets me bring up my mighty Hoosiers. I think Tom Crean is a decent coach. However in large part because of the situation he inherited, his B1G Ten Record from the first 3 seasons is a woeful 8-46. 38 games below .500. Now even if the Hoosiers are successful over the next 10 years, his overall B1G Ten record is always going to look pretty mediocre. If IU went 12-6 every year for the next 5 years, he'd still be 68-76.
If you were to say, "He's been given 9 years and he's still less than mediocre. Look at his B1G Ten record, he's not even .500" it would be silly.

Though the reasons for the failure are much much different, I think the failure of the franchise in the 90's similarly obscures any meaningful improvements made by Mike Brown.

So if we're going to accurately discuss whether Brown's model works, at least we should acknowledge that the model is different now than it was in 1996.

[Stray]

I think Bengals fans are smart enough to know that the schedule plays a huge part in the Bengals' recent success.

They've been bounced in the first round every time, and there isn't a soul alive who thinks they will do otherwise this year.

They lost to a Texans team at home who had their third string QB in.

Not ready for primetime, and they never will be until they get a football person and not an attorney and his relatives making player decisions.

So lets say we find a way to win on Sunday, you really think that playing @ Houston is an unwinnable game?

And let's be real here, there are a handful of consistently good teams in the NFL. Those teams make the playoffs year in and year out, then get a winners schedule the following season, and are still able to win enough games to make the playoffs again. The reason there is so much turnaround in the NFL is because of that scheduling, let's not pretend that it has only benefited the Bengals or anything. On top of that we play in one of the toughest divisions in all of football, and we're one of two teams to have swept that division in a year (3 if Baltimore wins on Sunday).

Fans can try to spin it however they want in an attempt to downplay success and convince themselves that this team still sucks, but like others have pointed out in this thread, we haven't been that bad of a team in recent years. It's up to you if you choose to ignore that fact or not.

[izzy's dad]

I'm not trying to derail this discussion, but I cannot wait for this game Sunday afternoon. I am pumped.

[Stray]

The Reds have been worse than the Bengals since Marvin Lewis came to town. This is something people seem to enjoy ignoring, I've never been able to figure it out, but it's why the Reds attendance is so bad. Save for two years ('99 and '10) they've been terrible since the mid-90s. That's a lot of suffering for the fan base.

I don't disagree with out about the Reds. I would think that a NL Central championship team with the National League MVP would get more fans down to GABP than it did though.

My point was more that when a city doesn't support any of their teams like Cincinnati, the excuses don't mean a whole lot. At some point we need to own up to the fact that this city just isn't a good sports town.

If you wanted a winner the Cincinnati Bearcat football team has been extremely successful for the past 4 years. If you wanted a young and exciting team who has won recently the Reds were your team. If you wanted a young team filled with no-names that was exceeding expectations left and right the Bengals were for you. And Cincinnati basketball used to be one of the biggest attractions in this city, but as it turns out people were buying tickets to watch Bob Huggins work the sidelines.

[Mario-Rijo]

What is our excuse for not supporting the Bearcats? or the Reds lower than average attendance? Oh right, because we ran Bob Huggins out of town and the Reds play on school nights.

I'm sure there are people not going because of Mike Brown, but I don't buy that as the main reason. I think it's just another excuse made by Cincinnati fans.

I think the real reasons are HDTVs and a city whose fans are either jaded, living in the past, or a little bit of both.

:confused:

They sell out for 8 years in a row and then the organization runs off it's 100 million dollar QB after numerous other issues the Bengals fans have put up with over the years and the sellouts plummet to 2/3 of the stadium and you don't see the correlation? I know Mike Brown is the reason for it, just ask the fans they have no reason to make excuses. Being jaded about the past is simply the lead in. Their perception may or may not be right on the money (I tend to disagree with it about him to an extent) but there is no doubt about the why.

The reason they don't support those other teams is because they believe they stink or in the Reds case in '10 they have been fooled before by other Reds teams. The Reds are gonna need to prove they are in it to win it to get solid support because let's face it Cincy is actually a football town.

[Mario-Rijo]

At the end of the day we have an attorney making football personnel decisions, which is not a sustainable model for success. They've proven this for two decades now, regardless if somebody would be thankful to have them somewhere else.

That's like saying you should eat grub worms for dinner tonight because there are people somewhere else who would think they hit the jackpot with a dinner like that.

I disagree with you. 1st of all Jerry Jones isn't the football guru he thinks he is but he is the only owner to ever take over a team and win within his 1st decade as owner in the modern era. Just look at the Redskins and they spend money like they are printing it. So I say you have to throw the '90's out as they were learning years, if you are gonna be fair. Then his 2nd decade he has put together some solid teams but still had an important lesson or 2 to learn yet (baggage is a bad thing) and now in his 3rd decade he seems to be moving in the right direction and I predict a higher level of play. The Steelers sucked for about 6 decades before they finally got it together.

[Mario-Rijo]

I'm not trying to derail this discussion, but I cannot wait for this game Sunday afternoon. I am pumped.

Same here, I am thinking of laying down some dollars on it. I'm guaranteeing victory over the hapless 1st place Ravens. They may be the better team against the NFL as a whole but the Bengals are a bad matchup for them. Torrey Inconsistent Smith and a late lucky sack won't be able to save them this time. 24-13 Bengals, Who-Dey! I may even put some dollars down on them in the playoffs, I think they have what it takes. If it wasn't for Andre Johnson getting healthy and my strong appreciation for an underrated T.J. Yates I would without a doubt make a play for the Bengals to make it the Super Bowl. Not that I am super high on this team but the matchups aren't as bad as they seem, the "good" teams in the AFC this year all are beatable. The Texans with a healthy Andre still are the 3rd best team in football IMO.

[KoryMac5]

While I have no love for Mike Brown, I find it hard not to root for this team. Dalton and Green make me want to get behind them.

[PickOff]

I'm not trying to derail this discussion, but I cannot wait for this game Sunday afternoon. I am pumped.

I am excited too, but nervous. This is a game that could define what type of team the Bengals will be the next few years. If they can get it done against the Ravens the youngsters on the team will gain even more confidence and it should set the tone for future expectations.

If they lose, however, and don't get in to the playoffs or fail to win if they do, there is a danger that the typical Bengal self defeating attitude prevails.

[Stray]

:confused:

They sell out for 8 years in a row and then the organization runs off it's 100 million dollar QB after numerous other issues the Bengals fans have put up with over the years and the sellouts plummet to 2/3 of the stadium and you don't see the correlation? I know Mike Brown is the reason for it, just ask the fans they have no reason to make excuses. Being jaded about the past is simply the lead in. Their perception may or may not be right on the money (I tend to disagree with it about him to an extent) but there is no doubt about the why.

The reason they don't support those other teams is because they believe they stink or in the Reds case in '10 they have been fooled before by other Reds teams. The Reds are gonna need to prove they are in it to win it to get solid support because let's face it Cincy is actually a football town.

Towards the end of those 8 years they were often aided by local businesses or even Chad Johnson to buy off remaining tickets to prevent blackouts. The streak also ended last season which was a bad year, but it also followed an undefeated AFC North season that led to a playoff berth.

I'm not trying to say our fans have always been bad or anything, just that it's trended that way in recent years.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say the organization ran Carson out of town. They paid him very well and he decided to take his ball and go home, that's on him.

With all of that said, I do agree that this stuff can't change overnight. The real question is how season ticket sales will go in the offseason. This is an easy team to root for, MB has been doing a good job drafting and signing FAs recently, and we're setup for a successful run. For fans, I would think that is what they would want.

[traderumor]

At the end of the day we have an attorney making football personnel decisions, which is not a sustainable model for success. They've proven this for two decades now, regardless if somebody would be thankful to have them somewhere else.

That's like saying you should eat grub worms for dinner tonight because there are people somewhere else who would think they hit the jackpot with a dinner like that.While I don't think Mike Brown is a good football man, I am continually puzzled by comments about how someone's professional background prevents them from being good at something else besides that profession. Oh, and I get the whole "personality" thing. I vehemently disagree that people are this narrowly defined.

[traderumor]

Towards the end of those 8 years they were often aided by local businesses or even Chad Johnson to buy off remaining tickets to prevent blackouts. The streak also ended last season which was a bad year, but it also followed an undefeated AFC North season that led to a playoff berth.

I'm not trying to say our fans have always been bad or anything, just that it's trended that way in recent years.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say the organization ran Carson out of town. They paid him very well and he decided to take his ball and go home, that's on him.

With all of that said, I do agree that this stuff can't change overnight. The real question is how season ticket sales will go in the offseason. This is an easy team to root for, MB has been doing a good job drafting and signing FAs recently, and we're setup for a successful run. For fans, I would think that is what they would want.I will tell you why I don't go to games. Can't stinking afford it, and I have a middle income wage. I follow the Bengals, but have not set foot in PBS because of economics. I wouldn't be able to do it Mike Brown or someone else was the owner. Heck, I can't even afford officially licensed NFL merchandise. So I root from my couch. Would love to take my sons to a game someday, but I'm priced out.

[top6]

I will tell you why I don't go to games. Can't stinking afford it, and I have a middle income wage. I follow the Bengals, but have not set foot in PBS because of economics. I wouldn't be able to do it Mike Brown or someone else was the owner. Heck, I can't even afford officially licensed NFL merchandise. So I root from my couch. Would love to take my sons to a game someday, but I'm priced out.

They really need to have cheaper seats. No time to find the links right now, but if you look at Indianapolis, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Buffalo and even Cleveland (all comparable teams), upper deck tickets on the 10s or the end zones are usually less than $50, in some cases even less than $40. At PBS they're $70. I think they would get much closer to sell outs if they made the upper seats in Sections 303 and 304 (and the similar sections) $40, and maybe make the last 3 rows $35 or something.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

They really need to have cheaper seats. No time to find the links right now, but if you look at Indianapolis, Tennessee, Jacksonville, Buffalo and even Cleveland (all comparable teams), upper deck tickets on the 10s or the end zones are usually less than $50, in some cases even less than $40. At PBS they're $70. I think they would get much closer to sell outs if they made the upper seats in Sections 303 and 304 (and the similar sections) $40, and maybe make the last 3 rows $35 or something.

^ This.

I hope that the Bengals do lower the bar for their cheapest seats next season. The corners of the 300-level are not worth the $65 price tag they go for now. Those should be more in line with the worst seats at other NFL stadiums in the $35-$45 range. For what they charge for those remote outpost seats, I'd rather just watch it on TV.

[remdog]

Go out and get your Raiders back if you want a team. Leave the Bengals and Bills and Vikings alone. Your city already lost two teams. Do we really need to see history repeat itself?

Honestly, I don't want the Raiders or Rams back here in the 'Entertainment Capital of the World'. There is so much more to do here than the cities you mentioned not to mention the better weather.

Since LA is a 'neutral' market I get to watch a better selection of games instead of the 'home team'. Most of my friends don't want another NFL team here and it's one reason that building a new stadium is having a problem getting traction in LA.

Another reason is that the citizens of LA realize that Mike Brown is an extorisionist and don't want to see that here.

My main point was that Mike Brown, his daughter and her husband need to go. It's just that simple.

Rem

[bucksfan2]

My main point was that Mike Brown, his daughter and her husband need to go. It's just that simple.

Rem

I don't have a problem with his daughter Katie. Mike Brown has been and will continue to be the biggest problem with the Bengals. I think that the moves forward that the Bengals have taken over the past decade have been initiated by Katie.

I wouldn't be too shocked if Marvin Lewis moved upstairs soon and Mike Zimmer or Gruden were named head coach.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

I don't have a problem with his daughter Katie. Mike Brown has been and will continue to be the biggest problem with the Bengals. I think that the moves forward that the Bengals have taken over the past decade have been initiated by Katie.

I wouldn't be too shocked if Marvin Lewis moved upstairs soon and Mike Zimmer or Gruden were named head coach.

This has been rumored for awhile and I also can see it eventually happening. As bad as Mike Brown has been since he took over in 1991, there is no doubt that the past three years have been his best, and it appears things are slowly starting to change. But, just like the economy, you can't see the end of the recession until a year or two or three after it's over.

And I believe a lot of the changes are being initiated by Katie. Here's hoping it continues. A practice bubble would be a nice announcement after this season ends to continue the momentum.

[5TimeWSChamps]

Looks like a new pricing plan for next year. Cheap seats will be $20 cheaper

[Dom Heffner]

Irrelevant. They also beat three teams that the Ravens lost to. And they beat a team that the Patriots lost to. And they beat a team that the Giants and Bears lost to. And they beat a team that the Saints lost to. And they beat a team that the Texans lost to. Funny how you didn't cherry pick those results?

Are the Bengals the only team in the NFL that has the easy schedule in the rotation? No. They all do. The Bengals took advantage of it this year. So did the Steelers, playing the exact same schedule and beating, largely, the exact same teams. In 2010, the Reds took advantage of a sad-sack division by beating up on the bottom dwellers all season. Should they apologize?

The declinist, defeatist attitude ... soooooooooo Cincinnati.

I'm not cherry picking anything- head to head they couldn't beat a Schaub-less Texans squad. Terrible.

They also nearly blew a 23-0 lead with 6 minutes against the almighty Cardinals.

They have a 24th ranked offense...going to be tough to go deep into the playoffs with that.

I never said they should apologize for the schedule, but you have to take winning seasons in context. You can't say they've turned a corner when the best team they've beaten this year is the Titans, and they lose tonthe Steelers and Ravens. Every time.

Im a huge Redsfaithful fan, but I'd rank the assertion that the Bengals could beat the Patriots up there with the poster who said the Big Red Machine was good because of Darrel Cheney for the laugh of the week. There is no planet, no universe, where the Bengals beat the Patriots in a playoff game.

[Dom Heffner]

They can easily go to Houston and win. And Merrill Hoge said he thought they were one of the most dangerous teams in the AFC, should they get in, so not everyone is that pessimistic. I don't have any illusion that they are a Super Bowl team, but I think they will win on Sunday and beat Houston.

Honestly, they could probably beat New England too. Having a good defensive line has always been the way to beat Brady.

No, they can't beat New England. The Pats have lost, what, one game at home over the past few years, and you think they would honestly lose a home playoff game to a team with the 24th ranked offense? The Bengals? Who held on to beat the Cardinals by the skin of their teeth, who couldn't beat the Texans without their best players? Let's not get ahead of ourselves- they can't even crack the Steelers, believe me, New England would eat them for lunch.

But we won't have to worry about it, because Cincy is going to be bounced while the Pats are sitting home watching it on tv.

[Dom Heffner]

While I don't think Mike Brown is a good football man, I am continually puzzled by comments about how someone's professional background prevents them from being good at something else besides that profession. Oh, and I get the whole "personality" thing. I vehemently disagree that people are this narrowly defined.

Well think of it this way: his front office is continually staffed with family members. Now, either you think that he goes out and interviews folks and his family just happens to beat these people out of jobs every time, or you think that just being related or marrying into the family qualifies you to run a football team.

What I'll never understand are people who think that a hundreds of million dollar football operation shouldn't be run by the most talented people in the industry rather than people who marry into a family and think it would be neat to give this football thing a try.

Let me tell you something- I own a business, a very successful one, and I don't have my mother as a sales manager. What on earth qualifies Mike Brown to run a football team? Are Katie Blackburn and her husband really the best this franchise can do? I mean, of all the people in the industry that have spent their lives learning the game, learning about personnel decisions, talent evaluations, and what a coincidence, Mike Brown puts his daughter and her husband in....and you say, "I've never understood why someone can't be good at both?" well here's the thing, my friend: they aren't good at football, and we've seen that over a twenty year same size.

Can an attorney run a football team? Not this one. Twenty years and not one playoff win. Zero. Nada. Nothing.

If you want to say things are looking up due to weak scheduling, have at it. I would prefer to have a team where people see us on it and think they have a tough schedule. That is never going to happen as long as Mike Brown owns this team, because he is a business man first, football second.

[RBA]

I agree with both REM and dom.

sent from HTC EVO

[cincrazy]

Please tell us how the two matchups between the Steelers and the Bengals ended this year. Kind of an important fact that you failed to mention.

You definitely do not fault the team for their schedule; however, it is OK to tell how it is... the Bengals are really only a mediocre team that benefited from playing two weak "other" divisions this year and a pretty bad Cleveland team 2X. They will have a much better record than anyone predicted as the season started (I predicted 2-14... oops!) and I really enjoyed this season as a diehard fan. But in reality they are not a playoff type team. They are reaping the benefits of their schedule and overall a pretty mediocre NFL (with a few exceptions).

Well, one of the matchups was decided in the last minute, even though the Bengals were without their best player most of the game. But that fact gets ignored quite a bit.

Also, in response to Dom, EVERY NFL team has the same scheduling format. It rotates every year. The Browns get the same chances the Bengals do, and don't cash in. And to be fair, that 2005 team never got a shot to prove what it could do in the playoffs, because their superstar QB went down on his first pass attempt.

[cincrazy]

Well think of it this way: his front office is continually staffed with family members. Now, either you think that he goes out and interviews folks and his family just happens to beat these people out of jobs every time, or you think that just being related or marrying into the family qualifies you to run a football team.

What I'll never understand are people who think that a hundreds of million dollar football operation shouldn't be run by the most talented people in the industry rather than people who marry into a family and think it would be neat to give this football thing a try.

Let me tell you something- I own a business, a very successful one, and I don't have my mother as a sales manager. What on earth qualifies Mike Brown to run a football team? Are Katie Blackburn and her husband really the best this franchise can do? I mean, of all the people in the industry that have spent their lives learning the game, learning about personnel decisions, talent evaluations, and what a coincidence, Mike Brown puts his daughter and her husband in....and you say, "I've never understood why someone can't be good at both?" well here's the thing, my friend: they aren't good at football, and we've seen that over a twenty year same size.

Can an attorney run a football team? Not this one. Twenty years and not one playoff win. Zero. Nada. Nothing.

If you want to say things are looking up due to weak scheduling, have at it. I would prefer to have a team where people see us on it and think they have a tough schedule. That is never going to happen as long as Mike Brown owns this team, because he is a business man first, football second.

Bill Bidwell and Mike Brown have a lot in common, but that didn't stop the Cardinals from reaching a Super Bowl a few years ago. Clearly having Mike Brown is a handicap. It does not, however, automatically exclude the Bengals from Super Bowl consideration. If we're going to rip Brown for most things (and well deserved), he must be given credit for things, too. The Palmer trade. Drafting Dalton. Drafting Green. Hiring Zimmer and Gruden. If we're going to criticize him for everything, it's only fair to give him credit when credit is due. He HAS done quite a few things right in the last few years. We'll never be a New England-like franchise, with sustained dominance. But we can compete for Super Bowls.

Brown has an awful rep compared to the Lerner family in Cleveland, but he's sure won a lot more than them the last ten years, hasn't he?

[hebroncougar]

No, they can't beat New England. The Pats have lost, what, one game at home over the past few years, and you think they would honestly lose a home playoff game to a team with the 24th ranked offense? The Bengals? Who held on to beat the Cardinals by the skin of their teeth, who couldn't beat the Texans without their best players? Let's not get ahead of ourselves- they can't even crack the Steelers, believe me, New England would eat them for lunch.

But we won't have to worry about it, because Cincy is going to be bounced while the Pats are sitting home watching it on tv.

The Pats have lost in their first playoff game in the last two SEASONS at home. They aren't the juggernaut they used to be. But first things first, the Bengals have to win this week, their plate if plenty full.

[cincrazy]

It doesn't matter what the Bengals do, because of the 1990s, some people will never give them credit. Ever. Even when it's well deserved.

[Mario-Rijo]

It doesn't matter what the Bengals do, because of the 1990s, some people will never give them credit. Ever. Even when it's well deserved.

It's true. People refuse to believe anything but what they want to. What I said earlier about Mike Brown not understanding how to win is just as rationale just as logical an argument when presented with the facts as him not wanting to win. I'm not convinced of either side of the argument honestly but because I find no facts that support the "doesn't want to win, just wants to make money" argument, lame decade old rumors aside. I have to believe it's more about his lack of knowledge but coupled with a foolish, extremely stubborn notion that he does know what he is doing. We have seen some of his stubbornness slowly peel away. We have seen an improvement in the quality of players and personnel since Marvin has gotten here and even again since the '05 squad fell apart due to baggage. And alot of why we have gotten better is because people who like Dom says shouldn't be a part of the organization like Katie who has done a fair job of finding a reasonably competent head coach who has directed and fought against Mike Brown to direct us to the right players and such.

I have a lot of respect for the opinions of many here including Dom and I fully get what they are saying and why they are saying it but I think they are dead wrong about who the Bengals are and where they are heading as far as I'm concerned.

[texasdave]

Just in case anyone missed this. Simply incredible. That's an ESPY nominee.

Jerome Simpson Front Flip Touchdown - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtaDy_Y9kNI)

[RiverRat13]

The schedule thing is way overblown by a lot of people. I haven't found an exact up-to-date ranking, but from what I've read in articles written a couple of weeks ago, the Bengals are going to end up with somewhere around the 16th-20th most difficult adjusted strength of schedule. So basically league average or slightly below league average.

[traderumor]

Well think of it this way: his front office is continually staffed with family members. Now, either you think that he goes out and interviews folks and his family just happens to beat these people out of jobs every time, or you think that just being related or marrying into the family qualifies you to run a football team.

What I'll never understand are people who think that a hundreds of million dollar football operation shouldn't be run by the most talented people in the industry rather than people who marry into a family and think it would be neat to give this football thing a try.

Let me tell you something- I own a business, a very successful one, and I don't have my mother as a sales manager. What on earth qualifies Mike Brown to run a football team? Are Katie Blackburn and her husband really the best this franchise can do? I mean, of all the people in the industry that have spent their lives learning the game, learning about personnel decisions, talent evaluations, and what a coincidence, Mike Brown puts his daughter and her husband in....and you say, "I've never understood why someone can't be good at both?" well here's the thing, my friend: they aren't good at football, and we've seen that over a twenty year same size.

Can an attorney run a football team? Not this one. Twenty years and not one playoff win. Zero. Nada. Nothing.

If you want to say things are looking up due to weak scheduling, have at it. I would prefer to have a team where people see us on it and think they have a tough schedule. That is never going to happen as long as Mike Brown owns this team, because he is a business man first, football second.Dom, your response is very surprising. You are typically very good at arguing logically, but this response totally skirted my comment.

You asserted that "Mike Brown is an attorney, therefore he should not be 'running' an NFL franchise because attorneys cannot run businesses." Are you saying that lawyers will hire family members, therefore they cannot effectively run an NFL franchise?

While your points may be valid about Mike Brown, you did not respond to "lawyers cannot effectively run an NFL franchise." I'm just trying to figure out why his professional credentials are an argument for why he is not a good football man.

[kaldaniels]

Dom, your response is very surprising. You are typically very good at arguing logically, but this response totally skirted my comment.

You asserted that "Mike Brown is an attorney, therefore he should not be 'running' an NFL franchise because attorneys cannot run businesses." Are you saying that lawyers will hire family members, therefore they cannot effectively run an NFL franchise?

While your points may be valid about Mike Brown, you did not respond to "lawyers cannot effectively run an NFL franchise." I'm just trying to figure out why his professional credentials are an argument for why he is not a good football man.

I've been on the sidelines on this one and would love to chime on this post, but I will allow Dom the honors. ;)

[RBA]

Just in case anyone missed this. Simply incredible. That's an ESPY nominee.

Jerome Simpson Front Flip Touchdown - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtaDy_Y9kNI)

I don't think anyone missed it. That gets a hot dogging award.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Looks like a new pricing plan for next year. Cheap seats will be $20 cheaper

And the good news continues. According to Bengals.com posters who called today to order season tickets for 2012, phone lines are again jammed with buyers.

I don't know what's gotten into Mike Brown, but I'll gladly take it. From the recent great drafts to the Jay Gruden hire to the Palmer trade steal from Oakland to the BOGO offer to the reduced prices for 2012 ... he's on a bit of a roll right now.

:beerme:

[traderumor]

I've been on the sidelines on this one and would love to chime on this post, but I will allow Dom the honors. ;)Feel free, but keep in mind that I am not questioning the assertion that "Mike Brown is not a good football man" but that "attorneys can not be good football men." In other words, the only objection I raised had to do with the correlation between Mike Brown being an attorney and his inability to be a good football man.

[Redsfaithful]

No, they can't beat New England. The Pats have lost, what, one game at home over the past few years, and you think they would honestly lose a home playoff game to a team with the 24th ranked offense? The Bengals? Who held on to beat the Cardinals by the skin of their teeth, who couldn't beat the Texans without their best players? Let's not get ahead of ourselves- they can't even crack the Steelers, believe me, New England would eat them for lunch.

But we won't have to worry about it, because Cincy is going to be bounced while the Pats are sitting home watching it on tv.

The Steelers are almost certainly better than New England. You're really sleeping on how bad New England's defense has been. Their offensive line has also been a mess. I think either Baltimore or Pittsburgh will bounce New England without much difficulty, but I do think the Bengals would have a shot. They only have one bad loss all year. I mean my god they're starting a rookie QB drafted in the second round and they're 9-6 and have only been blown out once. That's incredible. Any other franchise would be receiving huge accolades from the media and from fans (and to be fair I think the media has come around much more since they got that 9th win.)

They've had troubles closing teams out, but if it wasn't the Bengals I don't think anyone would find that surprising with them being one of the youngest teams in the NFL.

We will see this Sunday. I really have a good feeling. Baltimore has struggled on the road and the Bengals are healthier than last time, I think they're going to get in.

[RedFanAlways1966]

The Steelers are almost certainly better than New England. You're really sleeping on how bad New England's defense has been. Their offensive line has also been a mess. I think either Baltimore or Pittsburgh will bounce New England without much difficulty...

I thought I heard/saw that as of today both #1 seeds had the two worst defenses in yards allowed in the NFL. Of course if NE loses this Sunday they may lose that #1 seed. All the same...they are the #1 seed in the AFC right now. Surely that counts for something. If they keep that #1 seed that means Pittsburgh or Baltimore will have to play in Foxboro. I'll bet any amount of money that Baltimore will not win at NE (see Baltimore's road record/stats this year).

NE's offense (despite their mess of an O-line) has outscored the next closest AFC team by 105 points! The team has won 7 games in a row! I root against them every game they play, but they are pretty good.

[hebroncougar]

It doesn't matter what the Bengals do, because of the 1990s, some people will never give them credit. Ever. Even when it's well deserved.

Well, let's face it, the 1990's were well deserved too. :D They were totally inept.

[KoryMac5]

This Sunday the Bengals put the 90's to bed. I'm pumped up and ready to watch the battle!

[kaldaniels]

nm

[cincrazy]

I thought I heard/saw that as of today both #1 seeds had the two worst defenses in yards allowed in the NFL. Of course if NE loses this Sunday they may lose that #1 seed. All the same...they are the #1 seed in the AFC right now. Surely that counts for something. If they keep that #1 seed that means Pittsburgh or Baltimore will have to play in Foxboro. I'll bet any amount of money that Baltimore will not win at NE (see Baltimore's road record/stats this year).

NE's offense (despite their mess of an O-line) has outscored the next closest AFC team by 105 points! The team has won 7 games in a row! I root against them every game they play, but they are pretty good.

Their defense is a mess. They're secondary is atrocious. The line can't get any pressure. The linebackers as a group are average at best. And teams that can get pressure on the QB can slow that offense down. It's a great offense because of Brady, but they have no deep threat, no outside threat to worry about. They're very beatable. I'm not saying the Bengals would beat them, I don't think they would. But they'd have a shot.

And are we forgetting that Baltimore went into NE not too long ago and completely obliterated them? I wouldn't rule the Ravens out.

[traderumor]

Well, let's face it, the 1990's were well deserved too. :D They were totally inept.And was 10-20 years ago. Fans need to think about letting go at some point, and not for the sake of the Bengals, but for their own fan mental health.

[Mario-Rijo]

Same here, I am thinking of laying down some dollars on it. I'm guaranteeing victory over the hapless 1st place Ravens. They may be the better team against the NFL as a whole but the Bengals are a bad matchup for them. Torrey Inconsistent Smith and a late lucky sack won't be able to save them this time. 24-13 Bengals, Who-Dey! I may even put some dollars down on them in the playoffs, I think they have what it takes. If it wasn't for Andre Johnson getting healthy and my strong appreciation for an underrated T.J. Yates I would without a doubt make a play for the Bengals to make it the Super Bowl. Not that I am super high on this team but the matchups aren't as bad as they seem, the "good" teams in the AFC this year all are beatable. The Texans with a healthy Andre still are the 3rd best team in football IMO.

Winds to gust to 42 MPH. The football gods must hate the Bengals, this is the one thing we didn't want to happen. This is a serious advantage to the Ravens.

[Reds]

WHO DEY, BIG GAME, GO BENGALS GO!!!

21-20 on a kick at the gun. (i can hope!)

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

And was 10-20 years ago. Fans need to think about letting go at some point, and not for the sake of the Bengals, but for their own fan mental health.

Sports fans here are bitter and don't let anything go. Some Reds fans are still bitter about the 1994 strike, even though that's ancient history. And UC fans are still bitter over the way Huggins was forced out. The fact that Huggings himself screwed K-State a year later by ditching them doesn't matter to them.

[Reds]

I'm 25, and I'm still waiting for a Bengals Superbowl dammit! :lol:

still waiting for a playoff win...

[KoryMac5]

Winds to gust to 42 MPH. The football gods must hate the Bengals, this is the one thing we didn't want to happen. This is a serious advantage to the Ravens.

The gusts will have an effect on both teams, however I think the Bengals and the West Coast attack they employ will be quicker to adjust to this. Taking away Flacco's deep ball will allow better coverage for Clements and Jones too.

[jmt5887]

17-14 bengals. Ravens struggles on the road and bengals will benefit from that. Bengals win with late td from dalton to green.

Playoff bound are the bengals.

[MWM]

Sports fans here are bitter and don't let anything go. Some Reds fans are still bitter about the 1994 strike, even though that's ancient history. And UC fans are still bitter over the way Huggins was forced out. The fact that Huggings himself screwed K-State a year later by ditching them doesn't matter to them.

Cincinnati fans are no more bitter than anyone else. Bitterness goes away once whatever is causing it is replaced with positive memories. I'm not sure Cincy is all that bitter about the 94 strike anymore, but they still haven't had much to be happy about since, other than the next year.

UC has done nothing since Huggins left, and the Bengals.....well, that's been well documented. They seem bitter because they've had nothing to cheer for in a long time.

[Reds Freak]

WHO DEY, BIG GAME, GO BENGALS GO!!!

21-20 on a kick at the gun. (i can hope!)

If I know the Bengals, it will be Shayne Graham kicking a game-winning field goal as time expires to give the Ravens a 21-20 victory and knock Cincinnati out of the playoffs..

[Brutus]

Cincinnati fans are no more bitter than anyone else. Bitterness goes away once whatever is causing it is replaced with positive memories. I'm not sure Cincy is all that bitter about the 94 strike anymore, but they still haven't had much to be happy about since, other than the next year.

UC has done nothing since Huggins left, and the Bengals.....well, that's been well documented. They seem bitter because they've had nothing to cheer for in a long time.

True. I don't think I've seen a fanbase yet that doesn't have a lot of self-righteous, bitter and even often hypocritical fans.

[Hillsdale87]

Winds to gust to 42 MPH. The football gods must hate the Bengals, this is the one thing we didn't want to happen. This is a serious advantage to the Ravens.

I think the wind will actually help the Bengals. Flacco is inaccurate as it is and may not have Boldin today. The one pass he makes pretty well is the deep ball, but that will be tough with all the wind. Maybe it's just wishful thinking though...

[blumj]

True. I don't think I've seen a fanbase yet that doesn't have a lot of self-righteous, bitter and even often hypocritical fans.

Most sports fans are bitter until they become arrogant.

[Redhook]

The Bengals almost always lose big-games like today's. It'd be so nice if they can reverse the trend for a change. This fan base deserves it.

[5TimeWSChamps]

And the Dolphins take the lead

[Ohayou]

GO DOLPHINS! :D

[Newport Red]

And the Dolphins take the lead

.. and about to give it up then interception!

[Ohayou]

Put a fork in the Jets.

[KoryMac5]

So Jets are going down, however Tenn just scored the go ahead TD. Looks like Bengals will need to win.

[Danny Serafini]

Almost the fairy tale ending for Jason Taylor there.

[5TimeWSChamps]

So Jets are going down, however Tenn just scored the go ahead TD. Looks like Bengals will need to win.

No, as long as the Raiders or Broncos lose, Bengals are in

[Danny Serafini]

So Jets are going down, however Tenn just scored the go ahead TD. Looks like Bengals will need to win.

Titans are irrelevant to the Bengals with how the tiebreakers sort out. With a Jets loss all the Bengals need is a loss by either the Broncos or Raiders.

[KoryMac5]

Cool, I thought I had read Tenn had a tiebreaker against us, didn't make sense to me as we had beaten them earlier. Lets go KC and SD!

[KoryMac5]

NE clinches #1 seed and home field advantage throughout for the AFC.

[Danny Serafini]

Jets score with 1:15 left. It'll come down to the onside kick.

[Danny Serafini]

Dolphins recover the kick, this one's over!

[Danny Serafini]

Titans are trying to remove themselves from contention. They fumbled just trying to run out the clock. Texans score with 0:14 left, going for two now to try and end it.

Edit: Texans false start, then snap it over the QB's head. Looks like a 23-22 Titans win.

[Playadlc]

Yeah, Titans game means nothing to us.

[blumj]

I just realized I get SNY, I could watch the Jets postgame show, does putting it on make me a bad person?

[Danny Serafini]

Ray Rice breaks one for 70. Nice start.

[KoryMac5]

Well at least the big play they always give up is out of the way early.

[Danny Serafini]

Ravens tack on a FG to lead 10-0. Elsewhere Palmer throws a TD to put Oakland up, and KC missed a FG.

[Joseph]

So whats the scenario that gets them in with a loss?

[Playadlc]

Oak. or Den. loss.

[forfreelin04]

Wouldn't be a 2011 bengals victory without spotting the opposition points.

[Danny Serafini]

Matt Flynn just threw his 6th TD of the day. A guy actually started him in the title game of our fantasy league. I think he may win.

[RiverRat13]

The Bengals have the wind behind them this quarter. Quit screwing around with the trickeration and just throw the ball.

[RiverRat13]

Bengals have to keep a clean pocket. Nice kick by Nuge.

[Danny Serafini]

Nugent good from 46, 10-3

[Danny Serafini]

Chargers tie it up, Rivers threw a 38 yard TD to Gates

[RiverRat13]

Matt Flynn just threw his 6th TD of the day. A guy actually started him in the title game of our fantasy league. I think he may win.

Favre may have been right that it was surprising that it took Rodgers so long to win a title with all of the talent around him. Still a toolish thing for him to say, but perhaps accurate.

[Danny Serafini]

Flynn and Matthew Stafford combined to throw for an even 1000 yards today. Crazy.

[RiverRat13]

Inconsistent Simpson strikes again.

[Danny Serafini]

Dexter McCluster breaks one from 21 yards out, Chiefs lead Broncos 7-0

[RiverRat13]

Inconsistent Simpson strikes again.

LOL! So maddening how good he could be and how often he doesn't show it.

[forfreelin04]

Then Simpson comes back within amazing catch for a first down! He is an interesting character.

[Danny Serafini]

Nice catch and run by Gresham for 25

[Newport Red]

Nice catch and run by Gresham for 25

They need to get him more involved. Ala New Orleans and New England.

[Ohayou]

Was that not through...?

[Danny Serafini]

Dalton nearly picked in the end zone, then Nugent pushes a 36 yard FG wide right.

[RiverRat13]

Nuge falling apart down the stretch. If Dalton had made a good throw on 3rd down, it would be 10-10.

[KoryMac5]

Looked like he pushed it right on the replay.

[KoryMac5]

Got to score TD's when in the redzone.

[forfreelin04]

Got to score TD's when in the redzone.

Been a problem down the stretch. The play calling in the redzone is questionable at times.

[Ohayou]

It was only 3rd and 1. I would've just ran a shovel pass play or something...

[KoryMac5]

Not big having Clements on Smith.

[Danny Serafini]

Mike Tolbert scores from a yard out, Chargers now lead Oakland 14-7

[forfreelin04]

It was only 3rd and 1. I would've just ran a shovel pass play or something...

Tab Perry was unavailable

[Danny Serafini]

Broncos drove down to the 15 but Tebow fumbled it away.

[KoryMac5]

So far no pass rush on Flacco yet. Zimmer is going to have a hard time dialing up the blitz with the speed Baltimore has at WR.

[forfreelin04]

With Boldin out, that helps the bengals d who are highly susceptible to crossing patterns.

[Danny Serafini]

Elsewhere in the division the Browns just went up 3-0 on Pittsburgh with 6 minutes or so left in the half. What's going on there?

[Playadlc]

Nugent, come on big guy. You're killing me.

[RiverRat13]

That spot was no more generous than what Baltimore got before the Rice touchdown.

[Playadlc]

I really can not stand John Harbaugh.

[Ohayou]

He came up short, as always.

[Danny Serafini]

I have a feeling that's a wasted challenge.

[forfreelin04]

That spot was no more generous than what Baltimore got before the Rice touchdown.

But Marvin never bothered to challenge.

Btw, harbaugh cheered that missed field goal like he won the lottery

[KoryMac5]

Challenging the spot is always a crapshoot for a coach.

[RiverRat13]

How can you definitively say he didn't get to the 39? The one angle looked like he got there.

[KoryMac5]

Looks to close to overturn to me.

[Danny Serafini]

That's a crap job by the replay official. How can you look at that video and definitively say the ball was at the 38 3/4?

[Danny Serafini]

Bengals do an awful job of downing it at the 1 and give up a touchback. Elsewhere Janikowski hits from 52 to cut the Charger lead to 14-10.

[Ohayou]

His own guy threw him down. :laugh:

[Danny Serafini]

Richard Goodman takes the kick back 105 yards for a score! Chargers 21 Raiders 10.

[forfreelin04]

Fouts can never contain his Bengal hatred.

[Playadlc]

Go with Bernard Scott the rest of the game.

Benson is horrible.

[Danny Serafini]

How terrible is Tampa? Down 42 after only 23 minutes.

[MWM]

That defensive holding call was attrocious. The NFL has got to do something about this.

[RiverRat13]

Gotta keep them off the scoreboard here.

[KoryMac5]

BS hit him in the pads, what crap.

[Joseph]

The refs are carrying out the instructions from the commish well, do everything they can to keep the Bengals out.

[MWM]

Good lord these refs are unreal.

[Playadlc]

Nice gift-wrapped TD there for Baltimore.

[forfreelin04]

Good lord these refs are unreal.

Unreal on that drive. Hard to beat the refs and ravens too.

[Danny Serafini]

Janikowski hits from 43, cuts Charger lead to 21-13

[Danny Serafini]

Halftime in Denver, 7-0 Chiefs

[forfreelin04]

Nothing new, down two touchdowns going into the half

[Ohayou]

We're going to get SO much crap if we lose our way in.

[KoryMac5]

We're going to get SO much crap if we lose our way in.

Nothing new for Bengals fans.

[Dom Heffner]

We're going to get SO much crap if we lose our way in.

You seriously didn't think the Bengals had a chance today, did you?

[Redhook]

How much are these refs being paid by the Ravens or the NFL? That was some of the worst calls I've ever seen.

Bad luck half for the Bengals too. 4 big plays all went against the Bengals that were decided by inches. So frustrating.

[Redhook]

We're going to get SO much crap if we lose our way in.

I'll take anything I can get. At this point, I expect the Bengals to lose, the Raiders to win on a last second FG, and Tebow to run 99 yards for a game-winning TD as time expires.

[Playadlc]

You seriously didn't think the Bengals had a chance today, did you?

Don't you have better things to do?

[KoryMac5]

You seriously didn't think the Bengals had a chance today, did you?

Thanks for checking in with that tidbit.

[WebScorpion]

We're going to get SO much crap if we lose our way in.
No worries, it can't happen. If the Bengals lose, Tennessee gets the 6th seed. The Broncos and Raiders are only playing for their division, they cannot win the wild card at this point. Bengals control their own fortune...if they win thay can play another game. :thumbup:

[Dom Heffner]

Don't you have better things to do?

Easy, cowboy.

The Bengals have nine wins this year: Cleveland twice, Tennessee, Arizona, Seattle, Buffalo, St. Louis, Indianapolis, and Jacksonville.

Not one playoff team.

Who on that list, by beating them, would give you a reason to think they could beat the #2 seed in the AFC?

[forfreelin04]

Regardless of the calls, Dalton needs to find a way in the redzone to get 6

[The Operator]

No worries, it can't happen. If the Bengals lose, Tennessee gets the 6th seed. The Broncos and Raiders are only playing for their division, they cannot win the wild card at this point. Bengals control their own fortune...if they win thay can play another game. :thumbup:No, The Bengals beat Tennessee. They hold the tie breaker.

[dougdirt]

Who on that list, by beating them, would give you a reason to think they could beat the #2 seed in the AFC?

No one on that list does. But watching them play the Steelers and Ravens earlier this year did. Didn't expect them to win, but could? Yeah.

[KoryMac5]

Easy, cowboy.

The Bengals have nine wins this year: Cleveland twice, Tennessee, Arizona, Seattle, Buffalo, St. Louis, Indianapolis, and Jacksonville.

Not one playoff team.

Who on that list, by beating them, would give you a reason to think they could beat the #2 seed in the AFC?

The Ravens did lose to Jax and Seattle on the road, teams the Bengals beat.

[Danny Serafini]

Nick Novak hits from 51, Chargers up 24-13, almost halftime

[Dom Heffner]

No one on that list does. But watching them play the Steelers and Ravens earlier this year did. Didn't expect them to win, but could? Yeah.

They lost all three games. They have lost each and every game they have played against a playoff caliber team.

Somebody suggested here they could beat the Patriots. Still think so?

[Ohayou]

No worries, it can't happen. If the Bengals lose, Tennessee gets the 6th seed. The Broncos and Raiders are only playing for their division, they cannot win the wild card at this point. Bengals control their own fortune...if they win thay can play another game. :thumbup:

As long as Denver OR Oakland loses, they're in.

[Dom Heffner]

The Ravens did lose to Jax and Seattle on the road, teams the Bengals beat.

Well gosh, the Bengals beat the Bills, who lost to the Chiefs, who beat the Packers. I guess the Bengals could beat Green Bay lol....

[forfreelin04]

Dalton looked shaky that first series.

[KoryMac5]

Back to the game, 104 yds in the first half ain't going to get it done. Gruden needs to open this thing up a bit. No running game is killing us.

[forfreelin04]

Well gosh, the Bengals beat the Bills, who lost to the Chiefs, who beat the Packers. I guess the Bengals could beat Green Bay lol....

You really need a win to start the New Year don't ya?

[dougdirt]

They lost all three games. They have lost each and every game they have played against a playoff caliber team.

Somebody suggested here they could beat the Patriots. Still think so?

Yes, they lost all of those games, but they had a chance to win several of them. That tells me that they COULD win such a game. They also beat the Titans, who may wind up in the playoffs.

I never thought they were going to beat the Patriots. But could they? Sure. Anything could happen. The Seattle Seahawks went to the NFC championship a few seasons ago with a losing record.

[Danny Serafini]

Raiders got into FG range but the receiver failed to get out of bounds and time ran out. 24-13 Chargers at the half.

[KoryMac5]

Well gosh, the Bengals beat the Bills, who lost to the Chiefs, who beat the Packers. I guess the Bengals could beat Green Bay lol....

I am always a polite poster, and don't appreciate the baiting you are doing right now. Sorry Dom, not going to bite.

[remdog]

I'm with Dom and, frankly, while this team has made some strides, they have a lot of work to do over the winter.

They had their goal clearly spelled out and, for the first half, they failed.

Rem

[KoryMac5]

Skuta's in for Lawson?

[forfreelin04]

Even if they back in, I think we can agree they could beat the Texans.

[Dom Heffner]

You really need a win to start the New Year don't ya?

Relax. The Bengals will back in, lose next week, and then everybody can give their "We've been to the playoffs three times in the past five years" speech to defend the family business.

I hate to sound like that, but it gets really old, don't ya think? Supporting a crappy product?

[dougdirt]

Relax. The Bengals will back in, lose next week, and then everybody can give their "We've been to the playoffs three times in the past five years" speech to defend the family business.

I hate to sound like that, but it gets really old, don't ya think? Supporting a crappy product?

I can't believe I am about to defend Mike Brown's product, but I think a lot of teams would suggest three playoff appearances in five years isn't a crappy product. Only one team wins it all every year.

[Dom Heffner]

Even if they back in, I think we can agree they could beat the Texans.

I don't mean to pick on you, but they lost to the Texans at home. You think they are going to go and win one after putting up three points at home in one of their more important games?

Am I the only one who sees that they beat nobody this year? They are about the 15th best team in the league.

[dougdirt]

I don't mean to pick on you, but they lost to the Texans at home. You think they are going to go and win one after putting up three points at home in one of their more important games?

Am I the only one who sees that they beat nobody this year? They are about the 15th best team in the league.

So they are better than half of the league. And they beat 8 teams this year. In the NFL. This isn't college football. You win 9 games in the NFL and you certainly beat someone.

[Danny Serafini]

Chiefs muff a punt and Denver falls on it at the 20. They don't get any closer, but they do get the FG. 7-3 Chiefs

[Dom Heffner]

I can't believe I am about to defend Mike Brown's product, but I think a lot of teams would suggest three playoff appearances in five years isn't a crappy product. Only one team wins it all every year.

You seem to be mistaking playoff team for quality. If a team plays absolutely nobody, and gets in, are they really any good?

Come on Doug, you are way too smart, my friend.

If you make the playoffs with 9 wins and you beat absolutely no other playoff teams....what does that give you?

[MWM]

Offensive PI? This has gotten comical. These guys need to be investigated.

[dougdirt]

You seem to be mistaking playoff team for quality. If a team plays absolutely nobody, and gets in, are they really any good?

Come on Doug, you are way too smart, my friend.

If you make the playoffs with 9 wins and you beat absolutely no other playoff teams....what does that give you?

It gives you something 18 other teams sure as hell want that they don't have. A chance.

[WebScorpion]

No, The Bengals beat Tennessee. They hold the tie breaker.
Yeah, you're right. I was looking at the tie breaker rules if the Raiders AND Broncos win...in that case Tennessee gets the 6th seed and the Bengals are out. If either Oakland OR Denver loses we get the 6th seed win or lose. Thanks for the correction! :thumbup:

[Playadlc]

No defensive pass interference?

This is getting absurd.

[KoryMac5]

Refs have been awful this game. Miss an obvious PI to call illegal formation. Cmon Man.

[Ohayou]

If you make the playoffs with 9 wins and you beat absolutely no other playoff teams....what does that give you?

Is this a serious question?

[Dom Heffner]

It gives you something 18 other teams sure as hell want that they don't have. A chance.

Do you think Pittsburgh fans think they have only a chance? Baltimore? New England?

I don't want a chance, I want to win. We have followed this franchise for years, and it simply is tiring to watch them only make the playoffs when they have an easy schedule.

We have an owner who puts his family in every important position in the front office. Their weight room is half the size of most college facilities, the strength coach doesn't want them to lift weights, they have one scout, the special assistant to the executive vice president is her 16 year old daughter....good God, this isn't an Italian restaurant this is a professional football franchise.

[Dom Heffner]

Is this a serious question?

Look at the scoreboard....is it?

[KoryMac5]

Refs have slowed this game down to a crawl. No flow at all due to constant penalties.

[Danny Serafini]

Raiders get a 78 yard pass to Moore, but can't punch it in after and settle for a FG. 24-16 Chargers

[dougdirt]

Do you think Pittsburgh fans think they have only a chance? Baltimore? New England?

I don't want a chance, I want to win. We have followed this franchise for years, and it simply is tiring to watch them only make the playoffs when they have an easy schedule.

We have an owner who puts his family in every important position in the front office. Their weight room is half the size of most college facilities, the strength coach doesn't want them to lift weights, they have one scout, the special assistant to the executive vice president is her 16 year old daughter....good God, this isn't an Italian restaurant this is a professional football franchise.

I don't care what other fans think.

This franchise is not run well. But you seem to be confusing that with what is happening on the field. Could they be better? Yes, they probably could be. But you said that it is a crappy product. Well, sure, if you expect them to be the Steelers or Patriots or Packers. But if you compare their product to the entire NFL, then the product, lately at least, has been anything but crappy.

[forfreelin04]

Relax. The Bengals will back in, lose next week, and then everybody can give their "We've been to the playoffs three times in the past five years" speech to defend the family business.

I hate to sound like that, but it gets really old, don't ya think? Supporting a crappy product?

No one thinks their baby is ugly.

I, for one, don't define myself by how well my football team does. Sure, I'd love it if Brown wasn't the owner, if we had a better head coach, and that the team didn't find such embarrassing ways to lose games when they truly matter. However, I love the city of Cincinnati and will watch whatever team they put on the field. I don't lose sleep over a loss or a bad year. Maybe some fans do and there is some ridiculous with that. If that's the case, you have a point. But they don't need to be playoff bound every year for me to root for them.

[Danny Serafini]

Bernard Scott races 25 yards down the left side for the score!

[KoryMac5]

Scott provides something Benson doesn't, speed to the edge. Need to see that more in the third and fourth quarter. Also need to see more UnderWorld commercials in the second half.

[forfreelin04]

Still in this! If they come back and win somehow, will you give any credit to the Bengals? Or....will they just be a team that beat one playoff team?

[dougdirt]

Also need to see more UnderWorld commercials in the second half.

This can't be stressed enough.

[KoryMac5]

SD offense on fire with another TD.

[KoryMac5]

Now's the time to take a shot downfield.

[Dom Heffner]

Still in this! If they come back and win somehow, will you give any credit to the Bengals? Or....will they just be a team that beat one playoff team?

If they lose, will you think any differently? :)

[Danny Serafini]

Bengals on the move to the 28. Elsewhere, Tebow takes a sack on 3rd down to move Denver out of FG range and force a punt. Still 7-3 KC

[HeatherC1212]

No one thinks their baby is ugly.

I, for one, don't define myself by how well my football team does. Sure, I'd love it if Brown wasn't the owner, if we had a better head coach, and that the team didn't find such embarrassing ways to lose games when they truly matter. However, I love the city of Cincinnati and will watch whatever team they put on the field. I don't lose sleep over a loss or a bad year. Maybe some fans do and there is some ridiculous with that. If that's the case, you have a point. But they don't need to be playoff bound every year for me to root for them.

I don't have much to add except for a big old WHO DEY!! to what you wrote here. I love my teams, dysfunctional or not, and will always root for the players, especially when they're easy to root for and exceed any expectations. Thanks for writing this and I totally agree. :thumbup:

Let's get this one boys!! :beerme:

[Dom Heffner]

Bengals on the move to the 28. Elsewhere, Tebow takes a sack on 3rd down to move Denver out of FG range and force a punt. Still 7-3 KC

Here in Tampa, they have the Broncos game on. Tebow looks awful.

[Danny Serafini]

Drive stalls at the 28, but Nugent hits the 46 yarder. 17-13

[KoryMac5]

Bengals playing a little to conservative for me. No shots downfield at all today.

[Danny Serafini]

That last FG was Nugent's 32nd, breaking Shayne Graham's team record from 2007.

[RiverRat13]

Bengals playing a little to conservative for me. No shots downfield at all today.

It has looked like Dalton has looked downfield multiple times without anyone being open. I'm guessing Baltimore is playing its safeties deep. Tough to tell from the TV high cam.

[Danny Serafini]

Raiders get a short FG. It's 31-19 SD, late 3rd.

[KoryMac5]

Oakland keeps hitting FG's while the Chargers have been getting TD's. Hopefully that trend continues.

[Reds]

So we need win or Denver loss or Oakland loss?

thanks NY.

[forfreelin04]

I don't have much to add except for a big old WHO DEY!! to what you wrote here. I love my teams, dysfunctional or not, and will always root for the players, especially when they're easy to root for and exceed any expectations. Thanks for writing this and I totally agree. :thumbup:

Let's get this one boys!! :beerme:

Happy New Year Heather! :beerme:

[KoryMac5]

Kept waiting for the flag on that third down play.

[Danny Serafini]

Denver has to punt again. Chiefs have it at their own 10, 6:35 to play.

[Dom Heffner]

So we need win or Denver loss or Oakland loss?

thanks NY.

This morning the enquirer said we needed the Jets and Oakland to lose. Now on their site they are saying that even if the Raiders lose, the Broncos can steal the spot away with a win....which makes no sense because the Broncos would be the division winner at that point....even Jim Nance has said several different versions of scenarios....

[forfreelin04]

Kept waiting for the flag on that third down play.

LOL! Me too

[Reds]

TV said if Oakland loses we'd be in. Also via espn :
Cincinnati clinches a wild-card spot:

1) CIN win or tie

2) NYJ loss or tie + OAK loss or tie

3) NYJ loss or tie + DEN loss or tie

[Danny Serafini]

Bengals starting to rumble, Dalton scrambles for 13 and Benson runs for 12.

[Redhook]

Bengals starting to rumble, Dalton scrambles for 13 and Benson runs for 12.

They're going to win the d**n thing. I'm fired up. This would be one of the biggest win ever for this franchise.

[KoryMac5]

Dalton sure can sense pressure in the pocket. Pretty unique trait for a rookie.

[Redhook]

Well, shoot. Fumble by Gresham. Ravens ball at their own 40. Go defense. Go Chargers and/or Chiefs.

[KoryMac5]

That's a killer turnover.

[Redhook]

Chargers up 12 driving at the Raiders 27. They score a TD and the Bengals are in the playoffs for sure.

[Reds]

:(

[Danny Serafini]

Chargers miss a 44 yard FG

[Reds]

the only good news

Timeout #2 by DEN at 04:11.
Chiefs 7, Broncos 3 | 4:11 4th Qtr

[Redhook]

Chargers miss a 44 yard FG

Just saw that. Not good, but still a nice lead.

[Redhook]

the only good news

Timeout #2 by DEN at 04:11.
Chiefs 7, Broncos 3 | 4:11 4th Qtr

Chargers up 31-19 is much better news than that.