Trade Proposal

[FireDusty]

Hamilton, Soto.......damn it....we are out of prospects.....OK...how about Hamilton & Soto for the first team that comes calling with a Closer?

What the hell......we have an 88-74 record and a first round sweep in the playoffs to build for. lol

What a joke of a front office.

[R_Webb18]

Hamilton, Soto.......damn it....we are out of prospects.....OK...how about Hamilton & Soto for the first team that comes calling with a Closer?

What the hell......we have an 88-74 record and a first round sweep in the playoffs to build for. lol

What a joke of a front office.

you deserve to be banned.

i mean I didn't wanna get rid of people also but cmon it made us better. just move on.

[dMaus14]

Hamilton, Soto.......damn it....we are out of prospects.....OK...how about Hamilton & Soto for the first team that comes calling with a Closer?

What the hell......we have an 88-74 record and a first round sweep in the playoffs to build for. lol

What a joke of a front office.

How about we fire Dusty, the pitching coach and Walt? Does that sound like something you might be interested in?

[drowg14]

you deserve to be banned.

i mean I didn't wanna get rid of people also but cmon it made us better. just move on.

If we stop feeding the troll, maybe he will go away...

[FireDusty]

you deserve to be banned.

i mean I didn't wanna get rid of people also but cmon it made us better. just move on.Really.

How dare someone protest the worst trade since we dealt an old 30 Frank Robinson to the Orioles for Milt Pappas and Dick Simpson.

In 2 years, Votto will be gone and He and Alonzo will be combining for 70 homeruns and 220 RBI's for someone else.

Latos will be a huge disappointment. I absolutely gaurantee it.

I will laugh my ass of and incessently post on here reminders of how the players sent to the Padres are doing well......while Latos shows us that we got what we deserve....a 12 to 14 game winner.

This is exactly the moves you make to become the Pirates.

That is coming soon.....after our dominating 88-74 2012 Season and the positively inspiring 89-73 mark we'll post in 2013.

Then.....the Reds will watch Votto & Alonzo be preiminent offensive players elsewhere, Grandal making All Star teams and Boxberger saving 40 games.


The best.....I repeat the best....the Reds can hope for is that Latos is a Cy Young candidate every year & the club goes deep in the playoffs in each of the next 2 years......and that success will result in increased attendance that enables the club to extend Votto.

The only way this isn't an epic fail is if Votto Stays and Latos is an 18-20 game winner, makes all his starts, pitches 240 innings every year & shows no signs of the shoulder troubles or maturity issues he has shown so far.

That's all.....in other words.....every planet in the galaxy will have to align perfectly....for us to be able to say we broke even.

This is the type of move I would applaud if we were 1 player away. We are multiple players away.

A horrid baseball move by a franchise with a limited budget. The trade will look ok the first year (if Latos isn't a DL Bust), but will steadily go dwn hill every year after.

But hey.....we've got 2 damn near 90 win seasons to chase....so I say lets clear out the entire system in support of that grand cause. :laugh:

[FireDusty]

If we stop feeding the troll, maybe he will go away...

Nope......I will have daily updates on all 4 of these players........I will show complete 1000% proof that we made a horrible trade.

You guys that think they know the game that want trades just so you can have a warm and fuzzy feeling over the winter.......will be nowhere to be found when this trade is formally dubbed among the worst trades ever.

[FireDusty]

How about we fire Dusty, the pitching coach and Walt? Does that sound like something you might be interested in?:thumbup:

[R_Webb18]

i mean cmon have u even seen the kid pitch?

do some research 1st.

where do you bust at?

[OGB]

Nope......I will have daily updates on all 4 of these players........I will show complete 1000% proof that we made a horrible trade.

You guys that think they know the game that want trades just so you can have a warm and fuzzy feeling over the winter.......will be nowhere to be found when this trade is formally dubbed among the worst trades ever.

Someone mentioned banning you, but that would clearly be a mistake, because your ignorance is very amusing to me.

Keep up the good work.
Cheers

[R_Webb18]

i think most agree Alonso will be a good hitter. the problem is we have votto. we needed a pitcher. we got 1. i was against most trades b/c they were for average people but i like this one. yes i think Votto will leave so that means you replace him with someone else not named Alonso. there will be other people.

[webbbj]

the reds goal is not to win a minor league WS its to win the MLB WS, getting Matt Latos is a big step in the right direction.

[RedsFan_26]

SHUT UP!

How old are you? Act it.

I gurantee i am 3x less than your age and i know how to act mature.

Quit being a troll

[Outlaw133]

Nope......I will have daily updates on all 4 of these players........I will show complete 1000% proof that we made a horrible trade.

You guys that think they know the game that want trades just so you can have a warm and fuzzy feeling over the winter.......will be nowhere to be found when this trade is formally dubbed among the worst trades ever.

Just for the record, proving something 1000% is a mathematical impossibility. Other than some engineering and accounting functions certainty tops out at 100%.

As for "worst trade ever"? Any trade that brought John Vukovich in to be the Reds starting third baseman has to make the list. Look forward to your daily updates though. You might make mathematical history.

[Hillsdale87]

First base is the easiest position to replace. I think that with 2 more years of seasoning Soto could fill the hole from Alonso fine. Grandal was never going to play for the Reds because of Mesoraco. Volquez is a disappointment, and Boxberger is just a reliever. The Reds major league team got significantly better from this deal. I think Grandal and Alonso are going to be good players, but they were never going to play for the Reds. Their primary value was as trade bait, and they brought a cheap TOR starter. I guess you would have liked to have those guys as backups, but I'd much rather have a great pitcher than some studs sitting on the bench...

[Nathan]

Ok, so, maybe the players we gave up become studs. All-star caliber players. Maybe we lose this trade hands down. I'm admitting (hypothetically) that this is a complete failure of a trade.

That being said, Mr. Pessimist, I have a few questions:

1.) What would you've done had they not made a trade for a frontline pitcher?
2.) Who would you have targeted?
3.) What would you have given up? (Remember, it would have to make sense for the team giving up the pitcher too. No Paul Janish for Felix Hernandez trade straight up).
4.) What would you have done with Grandal and Alonso? Votto and Meseroco?

See, we do not have a magic ball that we can say for certain how each move would work. We don't know yet. All the prospect sent to San Diego can become total busts, and Latos can become a HOF pitcher for the Reds. We do not know! The Reds didn't give up anything they couldn't replace. They acquired something they desperately needed. Do you not see this? What would it take to realize that?

[FireDusty]

Ok, so, maybe the players we gave up become studs. All-star caliber players. Maybe we lose this trade hands down. I'm admitting (hypothetically) that this is a complete failure of a trade.

That being said, Mr. Pessimist, I have a few questions:

1.) What would you've done had they not made a trade for a frontline pitcher?
2.) Who would you have targeted?
3.) What would you have given up? (Remember, it would have to make sense for the team giving up the pitcher too. No Paul Janish for Felix Hernandez trade straight up).
4.) What would you have done with Grandal and Alonso? Votto and Meseroco?

See, we do not have a magic ball that we can say for certain how each move would work. We don't know yet. All the prospect sent to San Diego can become total busts, and Latos can become a HOF pitcher for the Reds. We do not know! The Reds didn't give up anything they couldn't replace. They acquired something they desperately needed. Do you not see this? What would it take to realize that?

I would have demanded better results out of my major league manager, pitching coach and hitting coach. (Don't be fooled by our park driven offensive rankings...we suck offensively)

Because of the epic failure that is Dusty Baker, Walt felt forced to trade away what was left in the upper minors so that we could limp home with 88 wins next year & take advantage of the Cards break-up and the Fielderless Brewers.

I wouldn't have traded anyone. I would have demanded more out of what we had.

Epic, monstrous fail.

Having the worst manager in the sport has now cost us our upper minor league grade a prospects.

What's next?

Epic, epic fail.

[FireDusty]

i mean cmon have u even seen the kid pitch?

do some research 1st.

where do you bust at?He's 24 year old guy with a history of shoulder issues.

He was available because the Padres see him as a good bet to flame out. They wanted to find a fool like Walt & they found him.

Gaurantee this trade does not work out.

Latos winning 12 games a year ain't enough when you give up 20% of a roster for him.

He needs to make 33 starts, pitch 240 innings & win 18 to 20 games.....every year....for the next 4 years.

Oh & if we lose Votto....that means even if Latos does all of the above...this was a fail.

[FireDusty]

the reds goal is not to win a minor league WS its to win the MLB WS, getting Matt Latos is a big step in the right direction.:laugh:

We'll win the powerful NL Central & make a quick exit in the first round of the playoffs.

[dMaus14]

He's 24 year old guy with a history of shoulder issues.

Cueto and Bailey are both 26 year olds with a bigger history of shoulder issues, so should we get rid of them!


He needs to make 33 starts, pitch 240 innings & win 18 to 20 games.....every year....for the next 4 years.

That's a bit much don't you think! You think that we should keep our pitchers because they are good enough but we need new coaches, but Cueto has thrown over 180 IP once, two years ago. Latos has done that the past two years.


I would have demanded better results out of my major league manager, pitching coach and hitting coach. (Don't be fooled by our park driven offensive rankings...we suck offensively)

Why is it always about the coaches with you? These players aren't in high school or college anymore! This is their job to perform! They are grown men and don't need their hand held to make sure they do what they need to do to become healthy and to perform.

And because we play at GABP we don't need to spend big on hitters because we will score runs regardless. Pitching won't come via FA because of the park so we will have to trade to acquire an arm we want! Conversely, the Padres won't get big time hitters to go out there because of the park. The trade evens out what we can't get and what they can't get.


Epic, monstrous fail.

An epic, monstrous fail would be:

Joey Votto
-FOR-
Jason Bartlett

Not dealing from a strength to acquire a weakness!

[FireDusty]

Cueto and Bailey are both 26 year olds with a bigger history of shoulder issues, so should we get rid of them!
Do you think Latos is better than Cueto?

Do you think anybody anywhere would have given us 3 first rounders and a former All Star Starting Pitcher who is now still only 28 for Cueto?

Again, I am cool with Volquez going, just making the point.

[justincredible]

Latos is as good as or better than Cueto. Yes.

[KOBasinger]

How about spelling Alonso's name right instead of being so bitter about Walt trading him away?

[goreds2]

the reds goal is not to win a minor league WS its to win the MLB WS, getting Matt Latos is a big step in the right direction.

Agree 100%.

That has been the Yankees trademark the past decade and a half. I think they have done alright. :)

[FireDusty]

Agree 100%.

That has been the Yankees trademark the past decade and a half. I think they have done alright. :)
Oh my god!

Do I have to spell out the difference between what the Yankees can do & what we can do?

Really?

:explode:

[bounty37h]

How about spelling Alonso's name right instead of being so bitter about Walt trading him away?

Yeah, I wont take him serious spelling "Jockerty" either. Makes it easier to overlook his posts though

[FireDusty]

Yeah, I wont take him serious spelling "Jockerty" either. Makes it easier to overlook his posts though

How about Jokerty...that's it.

Walt Jokerty is signing his legacy now....history will show that he took a minor league system bursting from the seems with talent and trading it all away for a chance to win the mighty NL Central.

[FireDusty]

Latos is as good as or better than Cueto. Yes.

Whatever.

If Cueto pitched in Petco...his era would have been 1.50. :lol:

[brad1176]

How about Jokerty...that's it.

Walt Jokerty is signing his legacy now....history will show that he took a minor league system bursting from the seems with talent and trading it all away for a chance to win the mighty NL Central.

He sure is, he traded a horrible starting pitcher (Volquez), a minor league pitcher who couldn't cut it as a starter and was converted to a reliever (yeah those are SO hard to come by), a potentially good hitting first baseman that they wanted to play left field since he was blocked by an MVP at first (good hitting first baseman come pretty easy as a majority of them are stuck at first because they can't play any other position but they can hit), and a catching prospect (who was blocked for the next two years) that hasn't played a single game at the MLB level. In return he got a TOR starter that's cheap and under team control for four years. Yes, you are right, Walt's writing his legacy.

[FireDusty]

He sure is, he traded a horrible starting pitcher (Volquez), a minor league pitcher who couldn't cut it as a starter and was converted to a reliever (yeah those are SO hard to come by), a potentially good hitting first baseman that they wanted to play left field since he was blocked by an MVP at first (good hitting first baseman come pretty easy as a majority of them are stuck at first because they can't play any other position but they can hit), and a catching prospect (who was blocked for the next two years) that hasn't played a single game at the MLB level. In return he got a TOR starter that's cheap and under team control for four years. Yes, you are right, Walt's writing his legacy.
Tell me then why so many in the national media agree with me?

Tell me then why so many of my friends and coworkers agree with me?

Tell me then why so many Reds fans agree with me?

[brad1176]

Tell me then why so many in the national media agree with me?

Tell me then why so many of my friends and coworkers agree with me?

Tell me then why so many Reds fans agree with me?

The media is the media, the more reliable people in the media say it was a win for both sides.

I would say you are around people that share your mindset, hoping that potential pans outover the next several years and hope you strike gold once every ten years. (After all, that mindset has worked out SO well for the Padres, A's, Pirates, KC, Baltimore, and up until now the Reds.)

Refer to my second point.

[FireDusty]

The media is the media, the more reliable people in the media say it was a win for both sides.

I would say you are around people that share your mindset, hoping that potential pans outover the next several years and hope you strike gold once every ten years. (After all, that mindset has worked out SO well for the Padres, A's, Pirates, KC, Baltimore, and up until now the Reds.)

Refer to my second point.

So.....what of Latos doesn't pan out.....will you then admit it was a horrible trade?

[brad1176]

If Latos completely busts and becomes Volquez, then yes it was a bad trade. However, I won't knock the FO for the trade because they were trying to win, they didn't just sit back and say 'gee I sure hope these guys all pan out'. If our package to San Diego doesn't pan out for them and Latos wins 18 games, will you admit it was a good trade?

[brm7675]

Really.

How dare someone protest the worst trade since we dealt an old 30 Frank Robinson to the Orioles for Milt Pappas and Dick Simpson.

In 2 years, Votto will be gone and He and Alonzo will be combining for 70 homeruns and 220 RBI's for someone else.

Latos will be a huge disappointment. I absolutely gaurantee it.

I will laugh my ass of and incessently post on here reminders of how the players sent to the Padres are doing well......while Latos shows us that we got what we deserve....a 12 to 14 game winner.

This is exactly the moves you make to become the Pirates.

That is coming soon.....after our dominating 88-74 2012 Season and the positively inspiring 89-73 mark we'll post in 2013.

Then.....the Reds will watch Votto & Alonzo be preiminent offensive players elsewhere, Grandal making All Star teams and Boxberger saving 40 games.


The best.....I repeat the best....the Reds can hope for is that Latos is a Cy Young candidate every year & the club goes deep in the playoffs in each of the next 2 years......and that success will result in increased attendance that enables the club to extend Votto.

The only way this isn't an epic fail is if Votto Stays and Latos is an 18-20 game winner, makes all his starts, pitches 240 innings every year & shows no signs of the shoulder troubles or maturity issues he has shown so far.

That's all.....in other words.....every planet in the galaxy will have to align perfectly....for us to be able to say we broke even.

This is the type of move I would applaud if we were 1 player away. We are multiple players away.

A horrid baseball move by a franchise with a limited budget. The trade will look ok the first year (if Latos isn't a DL Bust), but will steadily go dwn hill every year after.

But hey.....we've got 2 damn near 90 win seasons to chase....so I say lets clear out the entire system in support of that grand cause. :laugh:

I am sorry but you are so wrong on this it's almost comical. We gave up "prospects" for a young pitching talent. We gave up very little on got a ton back talent wise. There was no place for Yonder or the catcher to play, closers are a dime a dozen and losing EV is great. REally just stop...

[R_Webb18]

i mean you blame more stuff on coach's? i mean just stop. i dont care if there the worst you don't blame the players for anything? rly.

[FireDusty]

If Latos completely busts and becomes Volquez, then yes it was a bad trade. However, I won't knock the FO for the trade because they were trying to win, they didn't just sit back and say 'gee I sure hope these guys all pan out'. If our package to San Diego doesn't pan out for them and Latos wins 18 games, will you admit it was a good trade?

Yes, I will admit it was a good trade.

By the time opening day comes around...I'll be ready to watch this pan out....and I'm not going to jump all over the guy if he gets bounced around in his first start.

It will be very interesting though....to see how he reacts when he throws a good pitch to a right hander that ends up in the bullpen over the right field wall......when that exact same pitch used to be a can of corn.

The guy has excellent stuff...no question about it....I'm concerned that the enormous pressure he will be under might derail him here. Reds fans, largely, are very knowledgeable. Reds fans know we gave up the farm for this kid.

[trentthecaptain]

I have mixed emotions on the trade, but only because of the loss of Alonso.

But the mentality of small-mid market teams to hoard their prospects because they might need them 2-3 years down the road when they lose a big name to free agency, is what dooms small-mid market teams to mediocrity.

Latos' splits show he's not a product of PETCO. He had a 4.63 average run support, one of the lowest in the league, which explains his win-loss from last year. Mike Leakes was 6.98. Imagine what Latos' record would have been with that same type of support.

[brm7675]

Tell me then why so many in the national media agree with me?

Tell me then why so many of my friends and coworkers agree with me?

Tell me then why so many Reds fans agree with me?

Wow the national media? Really, and exactly what are their creditails? I look at is this way...If Jim Bowden doesn't like it then it's a good deal for the Reds...:thumbup:

[brm7675]

So.....what of Latos doesn't pan out.....will you then admit it was a horrible trade?

Not at all, we gave up basically 1 player who is at best a 2 tool player with no where to play on the Reds roster....no big loss.

[dMaus14]

Whatever.

If Cueto pitched in Petco...his era would have been 1.50. :lol:

And still wouldn't have qualified for the ERA title because he only threw 156 IP! And people complain about the run support he got last year, think about what he would have gotten at Petco ... 1.50 ERA going 6-8!

[Nathan]

I would have demanded better results out of my major league manager, pitching coach and hitting coach. (Don't be fooled by our park driven offensive rankings...we suck offensively)

Because of the epic failure that is Dusty Baker, Walt felt forced to trade away what was left in the upper minors so that we could limp home with 88 wins next year & take advantage of the Cards break-up and the Fielderless Brewers.

I wouldn't have traded anyone. I would have demanded more out of what we had.

Epic, monstrous fail.

Having the worst manager in the sport has now cost us our upper minor league grade a prospects.

What's next?

Epic, epic fail.


Ok, so, maybe the players we gave up become studs. All-star caliber players. Maybe we lose this trade hands down. I'm admitting (hypothetically) that this is a complete failure of a trade.

That being said, Mr. Pessimist, I have a few questions:

1.) What would you've done had they not made a trade for a frontline pitcher?
2.) Who would you have targeted?
3.) What would you have given up? (Remember, it would have to make sense for the team giving up the pitcher too. No Paul Janish for Felix Hernandez trade straight up).
4.) What would you have done with Grandal and Alonso? Votto and Meseroco?

See, we do not have a magic ball that we can say for certain how each move would work. We don't know yet. All the prospect sent to San Diego can become total busts, and Latos can become a HOF pitcher for the Reds. We do not know! The Reds didn't give up anything they couldn't replace. They acquired something they desperately needed. Do you not see this? What would it take to realize that?

Still didn't say what would become of Votto, Meseroco, Grandal and Alonso. Who would rot away on the bench, not living up to their "All-Star" potential.

Don't you get it? Trading future All Stars isn't the end all. See, they wouldn't become All-Stars with the Reds. You can only have 25 players on a roster, and only 8 of them really play everyday. Give it up. You fail!

[JohnnyBallgame]

Did "Fire Dusty" get banned?

[izzy's dad]

I have been absent from Redszone for a while. This is my take on the trade if anyone cares. We traded promising young talent with good upside for a young starting pitcher that profiles as a top of the rotation arm with even more upside, and is very cheap. I like the deal, any trade that improves the big league team not only now, but for years to come. I just don't see any downside to this deal. Sure Alonso, Grandal, and Boxberger might be All Stars, but they could just as easily flame out due to injury or poor performance. We know what we are getting in Mat Latos. A young stud pitcher with a mean streak, something this team needs. I can't wait to see a 97 mph Mat Latos fastball buzz under Yadier Molina's chin. This team isn't a World Series contender yet, but this trade gets us pretty darn close.

[Blood Red Path]

Do you think Latos is better than Cueto?



IMO Yes. 1000 times YES.

Stats to build a case...

We will only look at each pitchers road numbers to eliminate any effect the home ball park might have had:

2011 road stats (plus Cueto's '09 road stats for an age comparison)

ERA/Whip
Cueto(age 25)- 2.98/1.19 (Cueto in 2009 at age 23- 3.83/1.31)
Latos(age 23)- 3.68/1.22

BAA
Cueto- .239 (2009- .236)
Latos- .235 (this despite his BAbipA being 22 points higher than Cueto's)

Pretty even right? Especially when you consider that last year is labeled as Cueto's "breakout" year, while it was considered a "down" year for Latos. So how do we decide who is the better pitcher??

How about some more numbers for you(again 2011 road stats)...

K/9
Cueto- 4.97 (2009- 6.36)
Latos- 8.25

K/BB
Cueto- 1.67 (2009- 1.7)
Latos- 2.61

From those particular numbers, who looks to have the more dominating stuff??

The fact is that alot of Cueto's numbers from last year will be very difficult to repeat given his declining K-rate, and he's likely to be somewhere between the johnny of 2011 and the one from 2010(and that's still not a bad thing). Latos, on the other hand, is a near lock to improve on his 2011 numbers and may end up being even better than the 2010 version of himself(scary thought for opposing batters).

Cueto slots very nicely as a number two in the rotation, but it would have been a risky option to proceed as if he were a number one. Latos is a true ace in the making(if he's not one already). Latos is a much more suitable #1 for the rotation. I'll admit that preference does play a part as they are very different pitchers, but at bare minimum he is currently Cueto's equal, and is clearly beyond where Johnny was at the same stage in his development. After you factor in the expected improvements due to age and experience, there is much reason to think that over the next four years, with IP being relatively even, Latos will provide more value to this team than Cueto will.

But, putting all preferences aside, either way you want to slice it, last week the Reds had one guy that could be considered a "top-of-the-rotation" arm- now they have two.

[R_Webb18]

Did "Fire Dusty" get banned?

yes

[HalKing]

The guy didn't honestly get banned just for expressing his opinion did he?

[DirtyBaker]

FireDusty would rather have a good farm system than a chance at a title.

[OGB]

The guy didn't honestly get banned just for expressing his opinion did he?

I agree if this is true. I just lost a ton of respect for this message board.

[R_Webb18]

or b/c he posted the same thing over and over and over.

[HalKing]

I agree if this is true. I just lost a ton of respect for this message board.


Exactly... on a message board you are always going to run across people you don't agree with and even the occasional guy that takes it to an extreme. But if someone isn't getting personal, attacking someone verbally, or being abusive then let them have their say. Otherwise, whats the point? Lets just ban everybody....

[texasdave]

I would caution that we probably don't know all the facts. A number of posters have posted the same thing over and over and are still on the board. Perhaps he sent PMs that crossed the line. We simply don't know.

[Ohayou]

'Tis the season!

[dMaus14]

Also it's similar to a kid who gets suspended from a public school for voicing his/her own opinions on topics in a class that continually disrupt the conversation by other students in certain topics. He has every right to his own opinion but no need to behave the way he did.

[HalKing]

Also it's similar to a kid who gets suspended from a public school for voicing his/her own opinions on topics in a class that continually disrupt the conversation by other students in certain topics. He has every right to his own opinion but no need to behave the way he did.


good god deadmau5 don't hold our wonderful public school system as the example we hope to follow... other than our political system I can't think of a whole lot more [messed] up than that. Besides, I've read thru several threads.. this cat is certainly the voice of negativity, but I haven't seen where he crossed any lines of conduct.

[dMaus14]

Hey now I didn't agree with what the guy said but I was just trying give an analogy of what I thought his banishment was similar to. I apology! I award myself no points and may God have mercy on my soul!

[Red Raindog]

yes

May I ask how you know he was banned?

[R_Webb18]

May I ask how you know he was banned?

read it on a bengals forum here. http://forums.cincybengals.com/showthread.php?t=32663

[Red Raindog]

read it on a bengals forum here. http://forums.cincybengals.com/showthread.php?t=32663

Thanks --- now I know!

[cbowen2112]

Thanks --- now I know!

And knowing is half the battle!

[dMaus14]

To be honest I had no problem with his opinion but I didn't feel like he didn't give any type of detailed reasoning for his opinion and felt that every one else was an idiot of they didnt think the same way.

[The DARK]

The guy had a fair opinion, but I've seen his type on message boards of all types. They invariably have a negative vendetta of some sort, and use every possible fallacy to back it up. They'll never concede any of their opinions, and when you try to show them evidence to counter them, they'll take it personally rather than providing evidence of their own or even explaining themselves. They'll never attempt to reach an understanding with someone else or act courteously. Usually they'll get banned after annoying enough people or actively abusing other users, and end up calling everyone on the board a homer as a parting shot.

In other words, he was just a troll who was making the Sun Deck a worse place to be.

[R_Webb18]

i think its okay to have ur own opinion but at the same time you can be wrong sometimes.

[HalKing]

Guess I now know that the RedsZone isn't the place for me to share my opinions either. And I won't even call everybody homers as a parting shot.

[izzy's dad]

Anybody can share their opinion. But you have to be willing to face the reaction. The problem I had with FireDusty wasn't personal. I just hated that he would give his opinion and when faced with statistics that disproved his opinion, he became a mega jerk. It was like arguing with my wife. It made reading any thread that he wrote in a pain. Honestly, I am glad he is gone. Not because I discourage sharing your viewpoint (no matter how crazy it is,) but because when given a counter-point to his point he became a petulant child. After reading his post from that link I think it is safe to say that Redszone is better without him.

[jmt5887]

There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion. However there is a limit to how far you can go with doing it. I get the feeling this person went over that line more then a few times.