francisco

[faffy42]

Does anyone else see francisco as a lethargic and lazy ball player. I do not like what I've seen and heard so far. Dusty said only guy who came to spring training overweight, and just witnessed an run scoring error on an easy candy hop at third. I'm rooting that he isn't rolens back up at this point.

[R_Webb18]

well he has 25 days 14 hrs 5 mins 35 seconds to prove him self.

[Jdattilo]

Looks pretty good at the plate. But if your opinion is accurate the problem becomes what to do with him.

[Jamz]

I like Frazier to play there as the back-up anyway.

[nux fan]

he has a lot of talent people complain about him all the time they should focus on the uselss stubbs

[DGullett35]

Im also rooting for Frazier to get the backup job, He also can play multiple positions and is a breath of fresh air in the clubhouse.

Francisco is out of options however so what would be done with him. The only option would be to trade him because surely he isnt getting released

[RedsBrick]

he has a lot of talent people complain about him all the time they should focus on the uselss stubbs

Useless Stubbs?

[nux fan]

yes two hundred strikeouts with little productivity is useless if he were not a first round draft pick he would have been released

[Number_Fourteen]

yes two hundred strikeouts with little productivity is useless if he were not a first round draft pick he would have been released

Serious post?! :bang::eek::thumbdown:

[RedsBrick]

yes two hundred strikeouts with little productivity is useless if he were not a first round draft pick he would have been released

Everyone wishes he would cut down on his Ks. Too bad you don't recognize he's top 5 in the league in stolen bases and runs scored, hits for power and is in the Gold Glove conversation in CF.

But yeah, the Reds should release him because his caliber of speed and ability is so easy to find.

[nux fan]

too bad you cant appreciate francisco, io your blindness for love for a useless wasted first round pick

[RedsBrick]

too bad you cant appreciate francisco, io your blindness for love for a useless wasted first round pick

I can't even decipher that sentence, but I don't remember even making reference to Francisco.

[Kevin1476]

I guess I am in the minority. I believe that Francisco has the ability to be an outstanding player for the Reds. What am I basing it on? Just what he has done in the minors and winter leagues. He has the power and plus arm. I just do not want to give up on him this early. As far as his weight, it concerns me, but that is where the organization has to stay on him.

[nux fan]

I agree, if francisoc were a first round pick and non dominican everyone here would love him

[bounty37h]

Serious post?! :bang::eek::thumbdown:

Give him a break, this was his first actual baseball post, other than just naming past names.

[nux fan]

great point agreed with by Geoff Combs

[bmwreds31]

Ive said it before i will add it to this thread as well.

Francisco will be nothing in this league in a couple years. I hate to even compare him to Willy Mo Pena because i think it insults Big Willy.

But thats who he most resembles, imo not even as good as willy was.

Defensively hes a big down grade.

[drowg14]

I agree, if francisoc were a first round pick and non dominican everyone here would love him

Wow. Just wow.

[Mutaman]

If Francisco doesn't make it this team is in serious trouble. The elephant in the room that everyone wants to ignore is the lack of left handed hitting. If Frazer is the backup at third, look for another year of being dominated by mediocre right handed pitching.

[Big Red Hoss]

Useless Stubbs?

Yep Running down balls in the gap to prevent hits much less doubles makes him worthless. So many people look at just the offensive side of a person instead of the entire ball player.


I guess I am in the minority. I believe that Francisco has the ability to be an outstanding player for the Reds. What am I basing it on? Just what he has done in the minors and winter leagues. He has the power and plus arm. I just do not want to give up on him this early. As far as his weight, it concerns me, but that is where the organization has to stay on him.
I will agree with you here. The guy has great talent. He has a powerful bat with a great eye. Not to mention he doesn't play a bad third base. ( hes better the EE) I question his work ethic more then anything. He comes in over weight. every year. Also I question his durability. He always seems to be hurt. Alot of that is how well he works off the field.

[redsfanmia]

We are not there at Reds camp so who can say whether or not he is lazy or not? I have seen Votto half heartily go after balls, does this make him a lazy player?

[OGB]

I agree, if francisoc were a first round pick and non dominican everyone here would love him

Sure, because nobody here was/is a fan of Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Dave Concepcion, George Foster, Ceasar Geronimo, Mario Soto, Eric Davis, Barry Larkin, Jose Rijo, Ken Griffey Jr., Brandon Phillips, Johnny Cueto, or Aroldis Chapman.

We much prefer white ball players.

[Big Red Hoss]

We are not there at Reds camp so who can say whether or not he is lazy or not? I have seen Votto half heartily go after balls, does this make him a lazy player?

Joey Votto didn't come in to camp way over weight and with a nagging injury that he didn't rehab correctly. Joey Votto also hasn't spend as much time on the DL as he has on the field the last three years.

Calling Francisco lazy is a pretty good assement based on the facts.

[bigredmechanism]

Sure, because nobody here was/is a fan of Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Dave Concepcion, George Foster, Ceasar Geronimo, Mario Soto, Eric Davis, Barry Larkin, Jose Rijo, Ken Griffey Jr., Brandon Phillips, Johnny Cueto, or Aroldis Chapman.

We much prefer white ball players.
:thumbup:

Dmitri Young is in my top 5 all-time favorite Reds. Must have been when he bleached his hair.:D

[Jamz]

Personally I prefer Frazier as I think he has a better work ethic, similar if not more ability and is kess injury prone. While we could use the lefty bat, I think having quality players is more important. Hamilton is coming up and he switch hits as well as Gregorius who could move to 2nd or move Cozart over.

[nux fan]

ron oester had a great "work ethic' big deal he stunk

[Captain13]

ron oester had a great "work ethic' big deal he stunk

Woah, there big-fella. What did Ronny O ever do to you. While I agree, Ron Oester was not a superstar, he did not stink. He was an above average 2B on some terrible Reds teams. If you compare him to Joe Morgan, that's not fair, and he doesn't compare favorably.

Sorry for jumping on you but from 82-85 Ron Oester was one of my favorite Reds (if not my favorite). He had a solid glove, super arm, and was adequate at the plate. Not to mention he was just likeable.

[nux fan]

this is not a popularity contest , oester was a horrible player, maybe he would be a good councilman, whenever someone talks about work ethic it is a euphemism to defend some uselss unproductive player who is standing in the way of a more talented player, sorry to jump on you and your ron oester fan club

[Jamz]

this is not a popularity contest , oester was a horrible player, maybe he would be a good councilman, whenever someone talks about work ethic it is a euphemism to defend some uselss unproductive player who is standing in the way of a more talented player, sorry to jump on you and your ron oester fan club

Frazier will be more successful in the bigs than Francisco will. He's a better defensive 3B, and his hitting stats are similar to Francisco at the minor league level. However, his pitch recognition is clearly on a higher level and he has a much more patient approach at the plate (Francisco's walk rates are absolutely terrible...which doesn't bode well at all for him in the majors.)

Ultimately Frazier not only has better work ethic, but he's likely the better player. Just look at their ST stats this year...Frazier is outperforming him in every aspect except for average...which he more than makes up with in his ability to take a walk (higher OBP.) He's also a better base runner to boot.

[nux fan]

so now we are paying attention closely to spring training stats thats great then release useless arroyo who can barely escape one inning without giving up a homerun

[Jamz]

so now we are paying attention closely to spring training stats thats great then release useless arroyo who can barely escape one inning without giving up a homerun

Arroyo is a serious concern and it's not like he's just having a bad ST, this is something that has carried over from last year and should he continue to pitch that way yes...the team should seriously consider dropping him, or trying to make a trade for another pitcher (if they don't have confidence in Chapman and Francis.)

[nux fan]

concur