Bruce not ideal choice to bat 4th.

[rgslone]

I love Bruce, and don't want anyone else in RF. He's one of the strengths of the team. He can field, throw, hit for big power, and appears to be a really a good guy. He, however, is not in Votto's class as a hitter. I have been holding out hope that he could eventually reach a level as a hitter that is comparable to Votto (because goodness knows Votto needs some help carrying this team offensively), but I don't think he will ever be close to that kind of hitter. He's a scary hitter for an opposing pitcher because of his power, but not because he's necessarily a tough out. Brandon Phillips is a tougher out - notwithstanding those maddening periods he goes through hitting 4th where he's swinging from his heels everytime he comes to the plate. Again, I love the idea of Bruce manning RF and batting 5th for years to come, but I believe that we need a 4th hole hitter who fights off pitches better with 2 strikes, doesn't strike out as much, and is just generally a little harder to get out than Bruce (even though I agree that right now Bruce is our best option batting 4th).

[IamRV]

Hanigan

[rgslone]

Hanigan

You know these days it seems Hanigan is one of the better options for pretty much every spot in the order. That may say something about the inordinate number of swing and miss guys we have in the lineup at the same time. I was hoping for a 4th hole hitter with 20-25 HR power and a strikewout rate less than 18%. If that's Hanigan, then he's my guy.

[Gunner44]

I still have hope that mes can hit for some power and fill that void between them for a long time to come. I also think Bruce will become more consistent with age, he's on the cusp now. And hopefully he does take that next step.

[rgslone]

I still have hope that mes can hit for some power and fill that void between them for a long time to come. I also think Bruce will become more consistent with age, he's on the cusp now. And hopefully he does take that next step.

Good Point. . . . I had forgot about Mes. But his AAA numbers did suggest he could potentially be that kind of hitter, didn't they? So, I won't give up on him either.

You might also be right about Bruce. Part of my loss of hope that he will develop much more is due to the fact that I just never hear anything about anyone with the Reds trying to help him improve at the plate. Of course, all kinds of things go on behind the scenes that we're not privy to, but I'd feel a lot better knowing someone has a plan and is working with him trying to improve his approach a little.

[DirtyBaker]

I'm as big a Hanigan fan as there is, but the 4 hole does not suit him. He is a singles/walk/productive out hitter, more than a power/RBI/bases clearing hitter. Reds can live and die with Bruce 4th and adjust during slumps.

[Ironman92]

When Bruce is locked in he's good for the #4

[jhiller21]

You know these days it seems Hanigan is one of the better options for pretty much every spot in the order. That may say something about the inordinate number of swing and miss guys we have in the lineup at the same time. I was hoping for a 4th hole hitter with 20-25 HR power and a strikewout rate less than 18%. If that's Hanigan, then he's my guy.

There's no way Hanigan ever hits 20-25. He's a singles/contact hitter.

[Red Buckeye]

Honestly I really have no problem with Bruce batting 4th. Great power, good average, and he's not the easy SO victim he has always been in the past

In fact I think he's the best fit on the team for cleanup hitter.

[drowg14]

I want to see Bruce hitting in front of Votto. Could possibly get him more pitches to hit. Would also like to see Hanny leading off. As for a four hitter, we really don't have one. Mes or Bruce in the future possibly, assuming they can mature into the type of hitters we think they can be. I guess for a lack of a better option keep BP there for now.

[LaFlamaBlanca]

Last year Jay Bruce, in a season filled with struggles, had a higher OPS than BP, who had a career year, did. That combined with the fact that Brandon has admitted he doesn't like cleanup and that this lineup is crying out for help at the top of the order suggests to me Bruce would make a much better #4 hitter.

[SweetLou1990]

Bruce is a good 5 hitter. Mes and Hanigan not the answers. BP may be the best choice, as of now.

[Tadasimha]

I personally think Bruce should bat 3rd in front of Votto for a period of time. He'll see a lot better pitches and get his stroke (and confidence) back. Votto has shown he can still get hits despite being pitched around and guys behind him (like Hanigan) can still push him around the bases.

[webbbj]

I personally think Bruce should bat 3rd in front of Votto for a period of time. He'll see a lot better pitches and get his stroke (and confidence) back. Votto has shown he can still get hits despite being pitched around and guys behind him (like Hanigan) can still push him around the bases.

Ive been a big fan of Bruce #3, Votto #4 and hanigan at #1. then #2 probably cozart or stubbs. W/ this group I like have BP drive in guys at #5

[joshua]

Hanigan definitely needs to be higher up in the order. Preferably #1 or #2.


Hanigan
Cozart
Votto
Phillips
Bruce
Heisey
Frazier
Stubbs
P

When Leake is pitching, I'd bat him 8th. Seriously. Maybe 7th.

I would like to see that lineup get a weeks worth of starts. We're coming up on a very easy schedule in June and it would be the perfect time to try to maximize what we can get out of our offense.

[jwmann2]

Always liked Bruce in the 6 spot. I think he is the most comfortable hitting there. Oh well. Dusty never seems to keep a consistent order and I'm sure he doesn't read this message board.

[reds700]

A serious, but not really serious, thought regarding Jay Bruce. During his good stretches he is as good as anyone in baseball. During his bad stretches he is basically an automatic out. And he has not proven that he can reduce these slumps of his. So, considering he is an automatic out right now, why not move him to the 8th spot until he starts hitting again and then move him back up. I know it won't happen and may be stupid to do so, but it hurts the team having a 5 hitter that is an automatic out right now.

[MrRedLegger]

A serious, but not really serious, thought regarding Jay Bruce. During his good stretches he is as good as anyone in baseball. During his bad stretches he is basically an automatic out. And he has not proven that he can reduce these slumps of his. So, considering he is an automatic out right now, why not move him to the 8th spot until he starts hitting again and then move him back up. I know it won't happen and may be stupid to do so, but it hurts the team having a 5 hitter that is an automatic out right now.

Keep him where he is, it won't help him at all. He will get out of his funk. Moving him to later in the lineup in order to fix his hitting issues is like putting Leake in LF until his ERA gets better.

Bruce is aware of his streakiness. At the beginning of the season he mentioned how he reconstructed his swing during the offseason to try and fix it. There are only a handful of players who work as hard as he does. He's not waiting for his swing to come back, he's working on bringing it back.

[reds700]

Keep him where he is, it won't help him at all. He will get out of his funk. Moving him to later in the lineup in order to fix his hitting issues is like putting Leake in LF until his ERA gets better.

Bruce is aware of his streakiness. At the beginning of the season he mentioned how he reconstructed his swing during the offseason to try and fix it. There are only a handful of players who work as hard as he does. He's not waiting for his swing to come back, he's working on bringing it back.

Don't really get the Leake analogy at all. I don't think it applies here. You are not moving him in order to fix his issues. You are moving him until he fixes his issues. His history suggests that he is going to be in a a 3-4 week slump where he doesn't get on base at all. Hypothetically, it would seem to be smart to move him until he works out of the slump. I only suggest it because he seems to have a pretty predictable pattern, which leaves a 3-4 week hole in the #5 spot in the lineup.

[MrRedLegger]

Don't really get the Leake analogy at all. I don't think it applies here. You are not moving him in order to fix his issues. You are moving him until he fixes his issues. His history suggests that he is going to be in a a 3-4 week slump where he doesn't get on base at all. Hypothetically, it would seem to be smart to move him until he works out of the slump. I only suggest it because he seems to have a pretty predictable pattern, which leaves a 3-4 week hole in the #5 spot in the lineup.

Should have said Bullpen rather than left field, but the point I was trying to make was that it doesn't seem like the right way to fix the problem of Bruce not batting well. It puts him in a much less effective position than batting 5th. If he approaches the plate in the first inning, there are at least 2 runners on or runs already scored. In this situation, he is who I want at the plate, streakiness or not.

[reds700]

Should have said Bullpen rather than left field, but the point I was trying to make was that it doesn't seem like the right way to fix the problem of Bruce not batting well. It puts him in a much less effective position than batting 5th. If he approaches the plate in the first inning, there are at least 2 runners on or runs already scored. In this situation, he is who I want at the plate, streakiness or not.

Yeah there is a reason managers don't do what I am suggesting. Just throwing out hypotheticals this morning.

[reds700]

Any takers for Bruce out of the 5 spot until he breaks out of this slump? I only suggest this b/c he is the most hot/cold hitter I have seen in my years of following baseball. He is an automatic out for weeks at a time.

[rgslone]

Why don't we ever hear anything about Reds' hitters being worked with, both before the season and during the season, to try to improve certain things or change an approach that isn't working? We do have a hitting coach, right? I would like to hear what he has to say about some of our hitters. It just seems to me like the whole organization has this laissez-faire approach to the hitters - e.g., "just let them do what they do, and eventually the ball will hit the bat." For example, earlier in the week there was an article about Stubbs, and he stated AGAIN (I'm paraphrasing) that he's not doing anything different this year, he's always been a high strike out guy and he "just does what he does." Well, that's insane. Then you have Phillips who changes his whole approach depending on if he's hitting 4th or 1st, as if he can magically transform into a completely different person with vastly different skill sets depending on where he's batting in the line-up. Can someone in the organization please just tell him not to do that? I mean I don't know how much the hitting coach gets paid, but could he at least try to convince Phillips that he doesn't have to swing from his heels everytime he comes to the plate when batting 4th? And what about Bruce - there can't be that much that needs to be tweaked to fix him, he just has too much talent. For the love of God, can someone in the Reds organization not help him. Is Joey Votto purely a product of his own creation? To answer my own question, at this point I'm forced to suspect that he is.

[RiverRat13]

3 steps to help Jay.

1. Call Mark Grace.

2. Hit the town with Mark Grace.

3. Let Mark Grace do Jay's "shopping".

Problem solved.

[S.Wells]

3 steps to help Jay.

1. Call Mark Grace.

2. Hit the town with Mark Grace.

3. Let Mark Grace do Jay's "shopping".

Problem solved.

Sounds good get it done

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