Who's going to manage the REDS next season?

[Kingspoint]

It was said when Rick Sweet was "fired", and made a "Roaving Catcher's Coach", that it was done for two possible reasons:

1. To get David Bell's feet wet at the next level (AAA...and, this one I can't figure out as David Bell can't seem to motivate water to run downhill...his putrid record at AA is now exceeded by his even more putrid record at AAA). David Bell is going to be the next REDS' Manager.

2. Rick Sweet is going to be given a year off to look over the entire organization, so that he can help even more with the overall operation of things. As Louisville's all-time winningest Manager, having never had a losing season, along with three straight Division Crowns, 2008-2010, he's earned his dues to become a Manager of some Major League Ballclub, if not having been promised the REDS' job in 2013. Why else would you allow your bosses to "disrespect you", and disrespect it is for taking away your job you've been more successful at than anyone in it's history in order to give it to a Manager who has had nothing but bad season after bad season at the AA level, unless you were promised the Manager's gig the following year? At 60 years old, you're not getting any younger and it's time for you to go for it and get a Major League Managerial job. Do you really stick around for some made-up position after being so good at what you do when any number of clubs would be highly interested in your services as either a Manager-in-waiting (Hitting Coach, 3rd-Base Coach, etc.), or as a Manager? Of course not. But, then with a man like Bill Bavasi handling things, anything is always possible. Nobody can screw up an organization like Bavasi can. He's easily the most dangerous person (he makes Baker look like Sparky Anderson) in the organization. Since Bavasi joined the organization, the overall quality of the Minor League system has gone downhill, and will continue to do so until this guy leaves. (We're now down to #16, where we had been Top-10 http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-talent-rankings/2012/2613155.html ... Much of that can be contributed to the trades for Marshall and Latos. This ranking, though, included Mesoraco, Frazier, and Cozart in it. So, the "depth" has deteriorated quite a bit.) Bavasi, in a few short seasons, destroyed a great franchise in the Mariners. Look at how his other franchises have rebounded after he's been gone for five+ years, also.....anyway, back to, "Who's Managing the REDS in 2013?"

I can only hope that Rick Sweet is Managing. Nobody knows this current group of REDS better than he does, along with the fact that the guy just gets his players to win games.

3. Can Baker save his job, and if so, what will it take? I wouldn't be surprised that it's a foregone conclusion he's gone, even if he wins the World Series. Anything other than a Division Title is failure, without a doubt, as he's been given the talent to win around here. It took decisions that he didn't make (Scott Rolen going to the DL, and Willie Harris getting dumped, and Aroldis Chapman becoming the Closer) for this team to "excel", instead of treading water, which is the norm for any Dusty Baker led team, as his propensity to play Veterans, no matter how horrible they are and how many games they cost the team, and no matter how quickly they can turn a promising season into a disaster (pick your season), while stifling promising, young players' growth (pick your player) so that they can be more productive in future seasons.

If Baker wins the Division, does he save his job?

If Baker gets to the National League Championship Series, does he save his job? If he wins it, does he?

If he wins the World Series does he save his job?

I believe anything short of winning the World Series, Baker loses his job and Rick Sweet is the next Manager.

[Who Dey Time]

Baker is closer to an extension than he is a pink slip. And that, IMO, is a good thing for the Reds.

When it's done, the collective stroke that the Dusty bashers will have will be priceless.

[Mutaman]

If he wins the World Series does he save his job?
.

Make it stop.

[texasdave]

I think Baker has to do more than just win the Division Title. I think he has to win a playoff series. With the talent on this team a First Round Playoff exit is an underachievement IMO. But what Bob Castellini thinks is the only thing that matters in the end.

[texasdave]

Make it stop.

Tony LaRussa won the World Series last year and he isn't managing in 2012. :laugh:
Actually, there is precedent here. In 2002 Dusty took the Giants to the World Series and lost. They let him go.

[Kingspoint]

Baker is closer to an extension than he is a pink slip. And that, IMO, is a good thing for the Reds.

When it's done, the collective stroke that the Dusty bashers will have will be priceless.I can't believe anybody can think that Baker is a good Manager. But, then Hitler, Marx and Lenin had their followers, too.

[alett12]

As much sense as Bell or Sweet would make, I see one answer even more logical than either of them, Jim Riggleman. He has major league managing experince and was winning with the Nationals last season until he resigned because they wouldn't extend him. So unless they were going to have a big league job lined up because they agreed to sign on as a minor league manager why would an esatblished big league manager take a minor league job? My personal choice though would be someone off of the Mike Soscia coaching tree or Terry Francona.

[Maker_84]

I can't believe anybody can think that Baker is a good Manager. But, then Hitler, Marx and Lenin had their followers, too.

I agree, this team wins in spite of Baker because of all the talent they have. Baker never won anything with those loaded Giants or Cubs teams.

[Who Dey Time]

I can't believe anybody can think that Baker is a good Manager. But, then Hitler, Marx and Lenin had their followers, too.

So supporting the current manager, with good reason, is akin to supporting Nazi's and/or socialists?

Sound argument.

[Who Dey Time]

I agree, this team wins in spite of Baker because of all the talent they have. Baker never won anything with those loaded Giants or Cubs teams.

You mean all the talent that you bash and criticize in virtually every game thread? Is that the overwhelming talent that you are referring to?

[xsteve1]

It's comical all the Dusty bashing. He's a good baseball man. He's the only guy to take the Reds to the playoffs in 15 years. It amazes me how much crap he takes.

[alett12]

I personaly don't think baker will be back either way next season win or lose. If they manage to win he'll go out on top and retire like Larussa did last year. If they lose his contract isn't renewed and the reds go another direction. One other name i have heard as a canidate to manage other teams never the reds is their own pitching coach Bryan Price. My personal thought is pitching coaches and pitchers generally don't make great managers but thats just me and bud black is my exception to that rule.

[alett12]

It's comical all the Dusty bashing. He's a good baseball man. He's the only guy to take the Reds to the playoffs in 15 years. It amazes me how much crap he takes.

What other manager in the last 15 years has hung up a different line up card in the locker room than he gave to the umps and sends out a guy who can't hit a freight train if he were tied to the tracks every day for an entire year when he has other viable options?

[Sir Luke]

check this out :thumbup: :laugh:
http://gappercity.com/

[brm7675]

Unless this team falls flat, which I just don't see happening, Dusty will be back unless he decides it's time to step away and retire.

[brm7675]

I can't believe anybody can think that Baker is a good Manager. But, then Hitler, Marx and Lenin had their followers, too.

the supporters point to 1500 wins and his status in wins on the all time manager list, the fact the players love him and so on.

[alett12]

The old players love him i'm not sure how the young guys don't just get pissed off

[Who Dey Time]

The old players love him i'm not sure how the young guys don't just get pissed off

IMO, that is another myth that gets a lot of play but, in reality, there is not much factual basis for it.

I believe the haters refer to it as "veteran creaminess" but be honest, who was going to replace the guys that he put in there?

Also, fact is that the Reds through most of Dusty's tenure has been a young team. This season the bulk of our roster is made up of younger players that Dusty is counting on to carry them to the division title (Cueto, Leake, Latos, Bailey, Chapman, Mes, Cozart,). Even players like Stubbs, Bruce and Votto are still young players despite their experience.

And for all the clamoring about Rolen in 2012, Frazier has proven to be very streaky....sometimes very good, sometimes downright awful. Point is, you can kill a guy all you want and try to conjure up reasons why he continues to get time but the real simple answer is that there are times when the other option isn't any better.

[AintlifeGrande]

Why are some folks so worried about who the next skipper will be?I'm interested in what's going on THIS season,and could careless about next year.Enjoy the moment.

[herbdizzle]

I think Dusty has actually done an effective job handling the pitching staff so far and my beef with him is his handling of the batting order. I'm not going to offer conjecture on who will manage next year until this season plays itself out. Dusty is not under contract right now for next year. Let the guy do his job over the summer and let the chips fall where they may. Arguing over this takes away from the attention and enjoyment this year can and should still bring to fans.

[Kingspoint]

I think Dusty has actually done an effective job handling the pitching staff so far and my beef with him is his handling of the batting order. I agree (as I've stated dozens of times this year and the last half of last season).

[Kingspoint]

It's comical all the Dusty bashing. He's a good baseball man. He's the only guy to take the Reds to the playoffs in 15 years. It amazes me how much crap he takes.A higher percentage of criticism comes from analysts outside of Redszone on major baseball websites, than the percentage of analysts inside of Redszone.

[Kingspoint]

the supporters point to 1500 wins and his status in wins on the all time manager list, the fact the players love him and so on.Ford and GM made more cars than anyone in the '80's. It doesn't mean they were good at doing it.

[alett12]

Does anyone else see Riggleman getting the job?

[Stray]

Dusty Baker

[texasdave]

Dusty Baker

That would mean the Reds made the playoffs. Which is always the goal.

[alett12]

That would mean the Reds made the playoffs. Which is always the goal.

If the reds go deeper in the playoffs i wouldn't be suprised if Dusty were to just retire so he can spend time with his son.

[Who Dey Time]

If the reds go deeper in the playoffs i wouldn't be suprised if Dusty were to just retire so he can spend time with his son.

If the Reds win the WS I could see this. If not, IMO, Dusty will be back in 2013.

[alett12]

I don't know he seems like he wants to be with his kid more and more but that's me. I'd never heard of him leaving an event so he could go see his son like he did with the reds caravan this year.

[The DARK]

Dusty's no spring chicken, and I get a feeling he would like to go out on a high note, hence all the activity before the season. If we get to the WS or maybe at least win the division, he'll likely pull a La Russa. If we miss the playoffs or peter out as a wild card, he might sign a 1 or 2 year deal and declare them his last.

[gedred69]

I vote Barry Larkin.

[joshua]

I can't believe anybody can think that Baker is a good Manager. But, then Hitler, Marx and Lenin had their followers, too.

I think Baker is a *good* manager. He's about average, maybe a bit above average...but average or above average managers don't win World Series titles unless they have a roster so good from top to bottom it doesn't matter who bats where or who comes out of the pen when.

I think he needs to go. We need a manager who isn't afraid to play the best player...veteren, rookie, undrafted free agent or AAA call up I don't care. I want a guy who isn't afraid to piss off veterans when they aren't producing and give other people their shot. I also want a guy who will construct a modern lineup. There's no way Hanigan should be hitting 8th EVER.

Sweat would be a good choice. But if someone like LaRussa or Francona is willing to come to Cincinnati, I would definitely take them.

[joshua]

I vote Barry Larkin.

Seriously? Other than being a hall of fame short stop and former Red, what does he even bring to the table as a manager? Not all good players make good managers. In fact, they usually don't.

If there's one problem with the Reds minor league system, it's that too many former Reds stars have jobs.

[mikdavrut]

If Francona would be willing to come to Cincy, I would absolutely LOVE to see how he would fare as the skipper. Guy proved he can win a WS.

I'm not sure how I would feel about LaRussa (of course, I don't think he would do it regardless, so I think it's a completely moot point to begin with).

But yeah, Terry Francona, every Sun. night when I watch the ESPN game of the week, the thought crosses my mind "how freakin' AWESOME would it be to see him in a Reds uniform commandeering the team" :thumbup:

[EMAW]

Tony LaRussa won the World Series last year and he isn't managing in 2012. :laugh:
Actually, there is precedent here. In 2002 Dusty took the Giants to the World Series and lost. They let him go.

Dusty was a free agent after 2002, was not fired and could have returned (should have in hindsight) and finished his career in a spot more open minded in regards to a minority coach-manager.

[EMAW]

I believe Dusty will retire at the end of the season and the guy that led the Reds to their only playoff spot in 15 years will (much to the pleasure of a majority of those on this site) not be here to ruin your baseball fun. David Bell, Rick Sweet, Jose Oquendo or some recently dismissed manager will be the Reds manager.

[Hondo]

I bet Mike Soscia gets fired when the Angels don't win the AL West and the New GM fires him just like he fired Mickey Hatcher as Hitting Coach.

Then, hopefully Walt signs him to a 5 year deal. This guy knows how to handle a pitching staff and could help Devin Mesoraco develop.

That's my prediction.

[demas863]

I can't believe anybody can think that Baker is a good Manager. But, then Hitler, Marx and Lenin had their followers, too.

Of the three I liked Groucho the best.

[SweetLou1990]

I believe Dusty will retire at the end of the season and the guy that led the Reds to their only playoff spot in 15 years will (much to the pleasure of a majority of those on this site) not be here to ruin your baseball fun. David Bell, Rick Sweet, Jose Oquendo or some recently dismissed manager will be the Reds manager.

Dusty said the other week in an article that he may be around for a long time.

Dusty won a few games for the Reds when he pulled Marshall in the 9th inning, but doesn't get any credit......

[Assembly Hall]

I bet Mike Soscia gets fired when the Angels don't win the AL West and the New GM fires him just like he fired Mickey Hatcher as Hitting Coach.

Then, hopefully Walt signs him to a 5 year deal. This guy knows how to handle a pitching staff and could help Devin Mesoraco develop.

That's my prediction.

Mike getting fired in Disneyland would not surprise me one bit. And if we could get him I would love it. But in all honesty I think Dusty is here for a few more years.

[dubc47834]

Dusty will be here, torturing all the haters.....boowahahaha!!!

[Cicero2.0]

I am no Dusty fan but I hope he is here for the foreseeable future since it would mean the team is winning.

[Ironman92]

I am no Dusty fan but I hope he is here for the foreseeable future since it would mean the team is winning.

Isn't Dusty under .500 in his Reds tenure?

[Ironman92]

Isn't Dusty under .500 in his Reds tenure?

Nope I was way off

Dusty is 349-347 as a Reds manager.

[Cicero2.0]

Isn't Dusty under .500 in his Reds tenure?

I didn't mean they would win because of Dusty. I would rather win in spite of him than endure enough losing baseball to get him fired.

[malcontent]

Nope I was way off

Dusty is 349-347 as a Reds manager.
Hater!

[malcontent]

I didn't mean they would win because of Dusty. I would rather win in spite of him than endure enough losing baseball to get him fired.
The ostensible problem with that line of thinking is that another playoff appearance could present us with 3-5 more years of mismanagement.

A Cubs fan/co-worker rather starkly laid the case before me the other day.

"You don't want to win", he offered.

"Why not?", I countered.

Winning dulls the mind, as much or more than old age.

[Ironman92]

Hater!

I don't hate.

Dusty is a great guy and likely a terrific father/grandfather but I'm just so ready to move on. I would genuinely wish him well.

[malcontent]

I don't hate.

Dusty is a great guy and likely a terrific father/grandfather but I'm just so ready to move on. I would genuinely wish him well.

Kidding.

[Mutaman]

The ostensible problem with that line of thinking is that another playoff appearance could present us with 3-5 more years of mismanagement.

A Cubs fan/co-worker rather starkly laid the case before me the other day.

"You don't want to win", he offered.

"Why not?", (I can't believe) I asked.


That's ironic because if there is one group of fans in any sport that I have felt really don't care if they win or lose as long as they have a good time at the old ball park, its Cub fans.

I will admit that the Cubs have had a lot of success when Baker wasn't managing their team :laugh:

And why would anybody ever quote a Cub fan as to anything?

[malcontent]

That's ironic because if there is one group of fans in any sport that I have felt really don't care if they win or lose as long as they have a good time at the old ball park, its Cub fans.

I will admit that the Cubs have had a lot of success when Baker wasn't managing their team :laugh:

And why would anybody ever quote a Cub fan as to anything?
Dude survived the Baker years.

I respect that.

Also, I never understood the animosity for Cubs fans.

Empathy would seem to be the more natural response.

[Ironman92]

Kidding.

I know.....I wasn't. He'd be great with my kids but I want someone else in charge of my 3 hours of entertainment 162 days a year.

[Mutaman]

Dude survived the Baker years..

What?? The Cubs actually made it to the post season in The Baker years which is something that has rarely happened since the days of Frank Chance. (Once? Twice? I forget.) For a Cubs fan the Baker years were nirvana relative to the rest of the last century.

[malcontent]

I know.....I wasn't. He'd be great with my kids but I want someone else in charge of my 3 hours of entertainment 162 days a year.
Oh, yeah. I agree. Not a bad dude. Several things I agree with him on.

Unfortunately, baseball isn't one of those things.

Though to be fair, I think his handling of the pitching staff has been by and large decent, save for the occasional too late hook.

[Hondo]

I honestly believe this team is playing good in spite of Dusty. He needs to go. With this much talent, you're going to win games. Another manager like Terry Collins, Terry Francons, Mike Soscia, etc... Would have this team running away with the division this year. Dusty likes to use the double switch like he thinks everyone else will think he's creative or tactical or something... You all need to judge Dusty on his career as Reds manager, not just his one division crown (with quick exit), & the success this year... He's almost forced to play home grown talent because he only has Cairo & Valdez on the bench now... Remember he had a third player he liked to semi-start who started off 1 for 33, but now is stealing AB's in Louisville.

Shorter: Don't let this teams playing well in spite of Dusty make you go under the ether.

[malcontent]

Dusty was a free agent after 2002, was not fired and could have returned (should have in hindsight) and finished his career in a spot more open minded in regards to a minority coach-manager.
FWIW, I really do not think race has been an issue at all.....and I don't normally say that.

[Ironman92]

Race? We don't care if the manager is green with purple stripes and red polka dots.....he just better not bat Valdez 2nd.

[Bob Sheed]

If he wins the World Series does he save his job?





:laugh: oh man... priceless

[Ironman92]

My bet is that no matter how good or how bad that he will not be fired or extended during or after the season but will retire after the season.

[Maker_84]

I honestly believe this team is playing good in spite of Dusty. He needs to go. With this much talent, you're going to win games. Another manager like Terry Collins, Terry Francons, Mike Soscia, etc... Would have this team running away with the division this year. Dusty likes to use the double switch like he thinks everyone else will think he's creative or tactical or something... You all need to judge Dusty on his career as Reds manager, not just his one division crown (with quick exit), & the success this year... He's almost forced to play home grown talent because he only has Cairo & Valdez on the bench now... Remember he had a third player he liked to semi-start who started off 1 for 33, but now is stealing AB's in Louisville.

Shorter: Don't let this teams playing well in spite of Dusty make you go under the ether.

This. If baker isnt gone after this season then Walt needs to be slapped with a frying pan

[dubc47834]

FWIW, I really do not think race has been an issue at all.....and I don't normally say that.

I'm not saying its you, but I do think many have a negative view of him because he is black. I don't think its because people are racist or anything, its how a lot of people grew up. But people do need to be careful when they throw around the racist term, it is a very serious thing and should be thought about before throwing it out there.

[New York Red]

I'm not saying its you, but I do think many have a negative view of him because he is black. I don't think its because people are racist or anything, its how a lot of people grew up. But people do need to be careful when they throw around the racist term, it is a very serious thing and should be thought about before throwing it out there.
It's 2012. Sports fans don't care about race. If race was a factor, how could anyone love their favorite teams? You have to consider that a lot of us grew up in an era where the best rivalry in baseball was the Reds and the Dodgers, and Dusty played for the Dodgers. I always hated the Dodgers, so therefore I hated Dusty Baker.

Once he became a manager in SF and Chicago, and I saw more of his actual personality, my opinion didn't change. Then when he was named Reds manager, I'm not going to lie, it was a sad day for me. I just don't think he is a good manager and I don't think he ever will be. If that makes me immature, unreasonable or biased, so be it. But believe me, race is not in the slightest way a factor. I'm tend to stay away from the Dusty topics, but I look forward to the day he's gone.

[New York Red]

And for the record, when I use the term "hate", I mean it in the sports sense, not literally.

[dubc47834]

It's 2012. Sports fans don't care about race. If race was a factor, how could anyone love their favorite teams? You have to consider that a lot of us grew up in an era where the best rivalry in baseball was the Reds and the Dodgers, and Dusty played for the Dodgers. I always hated the Dodgers, so therefore I hated Dusty Baker.

Once he became a manager in SF and Chicago, and I saw more of his actual personality, my opinion didn't change. Then when he was named Reds manager, I'm not going to lie, it was a sad day for me. I just don't think he is a good manager and I don't think he ever will be. If that makes me immature, unreasonable or biased, so be it. But believe me, race is not in the slightest way a factor. I'm tend to stay away from the Dusty topics, but I look forward to the day he's gone.

I don't doubt for 1 bit that it is as you say...for you. But I have felt since 2010 when we won the division and everything was going good and people were bashing Dusty for little things that race has something to do with it. I know its 2012 and race shouldn't have ANYTHING to do with it, but to some it does, and that is sad. I understand for those that grew up during the Dodgers/Reds rivalry days and had to watch Dusty as a Dodger was probly tough seeing him become our manager. I know he isn't the best X and O's manager and I have stated many times that he does make some weird moves, but a lot of people bash him on everything and NEVER state anything that he has done good. I'm not saying Dusty bashers are racist or anything, I think that word should be used very cautiously as I have stated before, but to me race is definately an issue here, however small it may be.

:beerme:

[New York Red]

I don't doubt for 1 bit that it is as you say...for you. But I have felt since 2010 when we won the division and everything was going good and people were bashing Dusty for little things that race has something to do with it. I know its 2012 and race shouldn't have ANYTHING to do with it, but to some it does, and that is sad. I understand for those that grew up during the Dodgers/Reds rivalry days and had to watch Dusty as a Dodger was probly tough seeing him become our manager. I know he isn't the best X and O's manager and I have stated many times that he does make some weird moves, but a lot of people bash him on everything and NEVER state anything that he has done good. I'm not saying Dusty bashers are racist or anything, I think that word should be used very cautiously as I have stated before, but to me race is definately an issue here, however small it may be.

:beerme:
No doubt racism exists, and all races are guilty of it. There may even be Reds fans who are guilty of it in regards to Dusty Baker. But I think for 99.9% it's strictly about baseball. If Barry Larkin became our next manager and we began a streak of multiple playoff seasons, he'd be our most popular manager since Sparky Anderson. I'm 100% convinced of that.

[alett12]

Another guy who would be interesting and who knows how the clubhouse works and that would really piss off cubs fans is ryan sandberg.

[dubc47834]

No doubt racism exists, and all races are guilty of it. There may even be Reds fans who are guilty of it in regards to Dusty Baker. But I think for 99.9% it's strictly about baseball. If Barry Larkin became our next manager and we began a streak of multiple playoff seasons, he'd be our most popular manager since Sparky Anderson. I'm 100% convinced of that.

Yeah...I definately think you're right on that 1. I think if they let Dusty go I want someone with some experience to replace him. I don't want a new guy learning on the fly and not working out during the prime of our stars careers. If it's going to happen, get some experience in there.