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View Full Version : 6/3/12 - Reds at Houston



elfmanvt07
06-03-2012, 12:02 PM
Reds lineup per Fay:

Cozart SS
Stubbs CF
Votto 1B
Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Heisey LF
Cairo 3B
Hanigan C
Arroyo P

cbowen2112
06-03-2012, 12:10 PM
Wow, Cairo? Really?! Frazier hits bombs, Cairo hits nothing. Prove me wrong Grandpa Miguel!

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 12:57 PM
You don't have to hit "bombs" in Houston. Mild pop ups leave that park. I've never understood that whole thing about GABP being such a hitters paradise...Minute Maid and that short porch is just such a joke.

I will admit that it's a beautiful ballpark and a great place to watch a game, but there are 3 things that just bug the hell out of me there. The Crawford boxes that are WAAAAAY too close/short, Tal's hill that's just an injury waiting to happen, and the flag pole in centerfield that's in play. Sure, they're "unique"...but not in a good way.

Let's take it to 'em fellas! Get out the BROOMS!!! :O)

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 12:58 PM
I would've liked to have seen Devin get the start. Not only should he catch Bronson occasionally, but he was hitting absolute rocket shots over the walls (left AND right) in bp yesteday. Probably the most impressive of the Reds in bp.

OldXOhio
06-03-2012, 01:04 PM
If today is a repeat of last night, Bronson's going to need every edge possible. I'd like to see Mes in the lineup too, but now is not the time to get him chances at catching Arroyo. Make haste while the rest of the division is struggling.

CySeymour
06-03-2012, 02:12 PM
It's my birthday. Get me a win, Reds!

Superdude
06-03-2012, 02:49 PM
Reds Fantasy Camp highlights! YEA!

Blitz Dorsey
06-03-2012, 02:54 PM
No question Frazier needs a day off. He's getting up there in age at 26, and he probably got worn out running around the bases after jacking that HR yesterday. Cairo is definitely the smart start today.

[sarcasm off]

WVRedsFan
06-03-2012, 03:04 PM
I'll go on record as never (well, hardly ever) understanding Dusty's lineup moves. He quotes lots of statistics, but I think he does it by the seat of his pants--how he feels that day--a hunch, so to speak. His love of veterans like Cairo and others means they will start at the expense of a better player. Maybe he'll retire? Nah, just kidding.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:05 PM
Astros lineup:

Schafer CF
Altuve 2B
F. Martinez RF
J. Martinez LF
Johnson 3B
Wallace 1B
Castro C
Gonzalez SS
Lyles P

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:07 PM
Cozart strikes out swinging.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:09 PM
Stubbs grounds out to short.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 03:10 PM
In the last 20 games at the Astros park, Votto is hitting .494.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:11 PM
Votto walks.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 03:13 PM
Dusty running us out of innings.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:13 PM
Votto is caught stealing. 0-0 mid 1st.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 03:18 PM
Thought that would be extra bases off the bat.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:18 PM
Schafer flies out the the track in left center.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:20 PM
Alktuve grounds out to short.

cbowen2112
06-03-2012, 03:22 PM
Arroyo getting squeezed according to gameday. As small as Atuve's zone is, pitchers need those calls.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:22 PM
F. Martinez strikes out looking. 0-0 after 1.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:27 PM
Phillips pops out to 3rd.
Bruce lines out to short.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:28 PM
Heisey grounds out to short. 7 pitch inning. 0-0 mid 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:30 PM
J. Martinez pops out to Phillips in shallow center field.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:32 PM
Arroyo is getting no calls on the corners

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:32 PM
Johnson walks.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Wallace singles to center. 1st and 3rd.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Rut roh.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 03:35 PM
Stros loaded up with lefty bats against Arroyo.

Sac fly.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:35 PM
Castro sac fly to center. 1-0 Astros.

cbowen2112
06-03-2012, 03:37 PM
Arroyo strikes out Johnson. Oh, no wait. No call. Guy walks. Ends up scoring 1st run. BS.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:37 PM
Gonzalez grounds into a FC at short. 1-0 Astros after 2.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:41 PM
Cairo pops out to 1st.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:42 PM
Hanigan grounds out to the pitcher

Kc61
06-03-2012, 03:44 PM
This Lyles has not been around too long, but he's had a 5 plus ERA both last season and this. Lefties destroy him, even righties have an .802 lifetime OPS against him.

Reds should be able to get runs against him.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 03:44 PM
Bronson with a long single.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:45 PM
Arroyo singles off the wall in left.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 03:45 PM
Cozart! :jump:

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:46 PM
Cozart homers to left! 2-1 Reds.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 03:46 PM
Had a feeling something good would happen there after Arroyo's at-bat. :beerme:

VR
06-03-2012, 03:46 PM
Arroyo singles off the wall in left.

Apparently the only one so far who realized Lyles was pitching today.

mbgrayson
06-03-2012, 03:46 PM
Like to see Arroyo or Leake used to pinch hit if we insist on keeping Costanza, Cairo, and Valdez on the bench....

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:47 PM
Stubbs flies out to center. 2-1 Reds mid 3rd.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 03:47 PM
LOL, I remember when Cozart was drafted. The book on him was that he wasn't a great hitting prospect, but did hit with good power. That's exactly how he's turned out so far.

No way should he be leading off. Probably could handle sixth in the order, though. Very nice power for a shortstop.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 03:50 PM
LOL, I remember when Cozart was drafted. The book on him was that he wasn't a great hitting prospect, but did hit with good power. That's exactly how he's turned out so far.

No way should he be leading off. Probably could handle sixth in the order, though. Very nice power for a shortstop.
Agreed.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:50 PM
Infield hit for Lyles on a ball Cozart can't handle.

mbgrayson
06-03-2012, 03:51 PM
Infield hit for Lyles on a ball Cozart can't handle.

When the grounds crew wetted down the infield between innings, they left it VERY wet. Cozart slipped and fell down in the dirt. Bad grounds work.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:52 PM
Schafer grounds into a 3-6 FC.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:52 PM
Altuve grounds into a 5-4 FC. 2 outs.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 03:53 PM
Nice play by Cairo, going to the line and making a good throw to second.

Not quite a statue just yet.

I wish Miggy would come around at the plate. I have no desire to see him leave, but he hasn't hit this season.

VR
06-03-2012, 03:54 PM
Nice play by Cairo, going to the line and making a good throw to second.

Not quite a statue just yet.

I wish Miggy would come around at the plate. I have no desire to see him leave, but he hasn't hit this season.

I think it's time for Miggy to join Maggs.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 03:56 PM
The Manigan throwing em out

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 03:57 PM
Hanigan nails the runner at 2nd. 2-1 Reds after 3.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:01 PM
Votto lines a single to left. Now 7 for 9 this series.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 04:02 PM
Votto lines a single to left. Now 7 for 9 this series.
:KoolAid:

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 04:02 PM
Nearly DatDudeDP

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:02 PM
Phillips grounds into a FC at 2nd. Would have been a DP but Altuve throws it away.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:03 PM
Bruce flies out to the track in left.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:07 PM
Heisey flies out to center. 2-1 Reds mid 4th.

757690
06-03-2012, 04:08 PM
Joe Morgan might not have embraced advanced stats, but he still is one of the smartest guys in baseball. I love to hear him talk baseball.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:11 PM
F. Martinez grounds out to 1st.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:12 PM
Nice play by Brandon. 2 outs.

VR
06-03-2012, 04:14 PM
Bronson with the two Martinez inning

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 04:14 PM
BP is unreal.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:14 PM
Great catch by Phillips! 2-1 Reds after 4.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 04:15 PM
That was about the finest infield play you can ask for in one half inning.

Votto made the first one with excellent positioning.

Phillips then with two tremendous plays at second.

The Reds have some leather on this ballclub, it really helps a pitcher like Arroyo. Great half inning.

mbgrayson
06-03-2012, 04:15 PM
After 4 innings, Reds 2, Astros 1.

Lyles at 61 pitches, 39 strikes.
Arroyo at 59 pitches, 34 strikes.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 04:18 PM
I feel like Cairo's at-bats are getting better, but the end results are about the same.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:18 PM
Cairo grounded out to 3rd.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 04:19 PM
Thom and Brantley going on again about what Cowboy likes to eat.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:20 PM
Hanigan singles to center.

Degenerate39
06-03-2012, 04:20 PM
I can't stand the Cowboy

Kc61
06-03-2012, 04:20 PM
I feel like Cairo's at-bats are getting better, but the end results are about the same.

I think Cairo is entitled to more time to get it going. He's not entitled to the whole season, though.

When the Reds add a player, Costanzo is obviously the first to go.

But if they pick up two guys, Cairo could be on the bubble. Needs to pick it up offensively.

VR
06-03-2012, 04:20 PM
Is the webbing of BP's glove painted gold?

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:21 PM
Arroyo grounds into a 4-3 DP. 2-1 Reds mid 5th.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 04:21 PM
BA is DatDudeDP.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:24 PM
Wallace bloop single to center.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:25 PM
No question Frazier needs a day off. He's getting up there in age at 26, and he probably got worn out running around the bases after jacking that HR yesterday. Cairo is definitely the smart start today.

[sarcasm off]

I'm not going to argue about who the better player is, I think it's obvious Todd is at this point. But if a player is on the roster, it only makes sense for that player to get the occasional start in order to stay somewhat in sync. Even if Cairo hasn't gotten there yet, he's got to play SOMETIME. IMO Dusty is very good about this. It's not about vet-love, it's about not putting a player to sleep to his detriment.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 04:26 PM
Bronson in some trouble now.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:26 PM
Castro lines a single to right. 1st and 3rd. Bruce's arm kept that from being a double.

mbgrayson
06-03-2012, 04:29 PM
Is the webbing of BP's glove painted gold?

Yes it is. He DID win the gold glove....lol.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:29 PM
Tie ballgame.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:29 PM
Gonzalez lines a single to center. 2-2.

Tom Servo
06-03-2012, 04:29 PM
:bash::doh:

Kc61
06-03-2012, 04:29 PM
Unfortunate to give up that hit to Gonzalez with the pitcher on deck.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:30 PM
Lyles sacrifices the runners to 2nd and 3rd.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:32 PM
Everything is up this inning for Arroyo. He's got to get that ball down.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 04:33 PM
Arroyo ahead on the count 1-2 to the lefty hitter. Needs to get him.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:33 PM
3-2 on the sac fly. Crud.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:33 PM
Schafer sac fly to right. 3-2 Astros.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:34 PM
Has Hanny gone out to chat yet? Everything is middle of the zone or higher.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:34 PM
Has Hanny gone out to chat yet? Everything is middle of the zone or higher.
Yes he has been out a few times this inning.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:35 PM
Thanks RF. I'm blacked out obviously.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:36 PM
Altuve flies out to right. 3-2 Astros after 5.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:40 PM
Cozart flies out to left
Infield hit for Stubbs.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 04:41 PM
One out, Stubbs on first, Votto up, good opportunity for the Reds to get at least one back.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:42 PM
Votto strikes out swinging.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 04:43 PM
I expect Stubbs to try and steal here.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:43 PM
Stubbs steals 2nd. 12th steal of the year.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:44 PM
4 pitch walk to Phillips. Big Ab for Bruce.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:45 PM
Let's go Jay! Big hit in front of your family!

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:45 PM
Crud. Flyout to Martinez

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:46 PM
Bruce flies out to center. 3-2 Astros mid 6th.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:49 PM
F. Martinez strikes out looking.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:51 PM
J. Martinez flies out to center. 2 outs.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:52 PM
Johnson doubles to right

Kc61
06-03-2012, 04:53 PM
Arroyo with 89 pitches. He often fades after 90. This should be his last inning.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 04:55 PM
Pick off attempt at second, called him safe, probably was out. Astros coverage showed several replays, looked out, very close.

Arroyo ahead in the count needs this one.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 04:56 PM
Wallace strikes out. 3-2 Astros after 6.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:58 PM
Heisey due for a dinger.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 04:59 PM
He remains due. k

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:00 PM
I love Miggy...but he really does seem to be done.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:00 PM
Heisey up there hacking. Strikes out looking. Heisey has 6 walks in 133 plate appearances this season. Needs to be more patient.

Two out in the seventh, Cairo grounds out.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:00 PM
Cairo groudns out to 3rd.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:01 PM
Heisey up there hacking. Strikes out looking. Heisey has 6 walks in 133 plate appearances this season. Needs to be more patient.

Two out in the seventh, Cairo grounds out.

Did Heisey have any sort of a track record of walking more in the minors?

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:02 PM
Hanigan grounds out to 1st. 3-2 Astros mid 7th

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:02 PM
Did Heisey have any sort of a track record of walking more in the minors?

172 walks in 2032 plate appearances in the minor leagues for Heisey.

PuffyPig
06-03-2012, 05:05 PM
Brutal 3rd strike call on Heisey, equally brutal 2nd strike call on Hannigan.

Likely the worse two calsl of the day on balls/strikes.

Arroyo clearly had the pickoff in the last inning.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:07 PM
Castro strikes out looking

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Gonzalez singles off the wall in right

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:09 PM
Shot off the wall in right, Bruce plays it perfectly and hold him to a single.

WebScorpion
06-03-2012, 05:10 PM
Gonzalez singles off the wall in rightI thought that was gone when he hit it...not enough elevation. Whew!

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:10 PM
If the Reds really intend to win this game, they should bring in a pitcher. Arroyo continues to fool some guys, but some of these hits are rocket shots.

Arroyo leads off next inning, so manager probably would like to see him get through this inning.

I would make a move for Arroyo now.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:10 PM
Justin Maxwell pinch hitting. Astros seem to really like this guy.

WebScorpion
06-03-2012, 05:11 PM
Justin Maxwell pinch hitting. Astros seem to really like this guy.I see why. :(

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:11 PM
A long home run by Maxwell. 5-2 Astros.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:11 PM
I would make a move for Arroyo now.

Good call. Unfortunately. Dinger. 5-2 ballgame.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:13 PM
Good call. Unfortunately. Dinger. 5-2 ballgame.

I've watched Bronson Arroyo pitch for many years now. He fades badly after 90 pitches most times. I've posted this dozens of times.

If I know it, why doesn't Dusty know it? Or the pitching coach or whomever?

So now Dusty takes him out.

I don't expect sweeps on the road, but leaving Arroyo out there was not a close call. He should have been out.

TOBTTReds
06-03-2012, 05:13 PM
Dusty has never learned how to manage Arroyo. I'd say clearly his weakest point (outside of lineup construction).

PuffyPig
06-03-2012, 05:14 PM
The Reds inability to get a base runner on last inning (with help from the umpire) has likely kept the Reds from having a reasonable chance to win this game, as Arroyo would have been PH for.

It happens.

TOBTTReds
06-03-2012, 05:14 PM
The Reds inability to get a base runner on last inning (with help from the umpire) has likely kept the Reds from having a reasonable chance to win this game, as Arroyo would have been PH for.

It happens.

And it probably would have been Frazier with a man on base. Instead, Frazier will leadoff with no one on base.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:17 PM
Altuve flies out to center.5-2 Astros after 7.

mth123
06-03-2012, 05:17 PM
The Reds inability to get a base runner on last inning (with help from the umpire) has likely kept the Reds from having a reasonable chance to win this game, as Arroyo would have been PH for.

It happens.

Well, that's true, but Arroyo should have been out anyway. KC is right on target. We complain about Dusty, but I'm completely unimpressed with Price. IMO, he should be the one making the manager see the light and its pretty clear with Arroyo. Monday is an offday. Most of the pen should have been available tday.

alloverjr
06-03-2012, 05:18 PM
The Reds inability to get a base runner on last inning (with help from the umpire) has likely kept the Reds from having a reasonable chance to win this game, as Arroyo would have been PH for.

It happens.

It really shouldn't though. A pitcher's done he's done. He could have double switched or not, makes no difference. It's not like whoever would have otherwise pitched the 7th was going more than 1 anyway. Don't like the decision at all.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:18 PM
The Reds inability to get a base runner on last inning (with help from the umpire) has likely kept the Reds from having a reasonable chance to win this game, as Arroyo would have been PH for.

It happens.

Dusty didn't have to leave Arroyo in the game, just because Bronson led off the next inning.

Dusty manages Arroyo like he is a 110 pitch type guy. He isn't. He wasn't before Dusty ever got here.

IMO, Dusty is responsible for taking this game from the "possible win" column to the "real longshot" column.

mbgrayson
06-03-2012, 05:18 PM
Arroyo with 89 pitches. He often fades after 90. This should be his last inning.

Very typical for Bronson to lose some effectiveness after 100 pitches for sure.

Very sad: Dusty left him out there one batter too long.... Pitch #106 is a two run homer for the Astros. With tomorrow an off day, and the bullpen fairly well rested, why send Bronson back out there to pitch the seventh given the quality of the Reds bullpen??

WebScorpion
06-03-2012, 05:19 PM
3 runs down with 2 innings to go against a team they should be able to beat handily. It does not seem impossible to me. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-gen013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

alloverjr
06-03-2012, 05:19 PM
3 runs down with 2 innings to go against a team they should be able to beat handily. It does not seem impossible to me. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-gen013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Nice pom-poms.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:20 PM
Wilton Lopez in. One of their few good relievers.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:20 PM
Very typical for Bronson to lose some effectiveness after 100 pitches for sure.

Very sad: Dusty left him out there one batter too long.... Pitch #106 is a two run homer for the Astros. With tomorrow an off day, and the bullpen fairly well rested, why send Bronson back out there to pitch the seventh given the quality of the Reds bullpen??

It's just a classic managerial mistake to stick with a pitcher because he is due to lead off the next inning. You figure, if he gets me through one more, I'll pinch hit for him.

It's really very poor reasoning and costs teams ballgames on many occasions. Today could be such a game.

PuffyPig
06-03-2012, 05:20 PM
3 runs down with 2 innings to go against a team they should be able to beat handily. It does not seem impossible to me. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-gen013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Houston'sr home record is better than our road record.

Baseball is not a game in which anyone should be expected to sweep another team handily.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:21 PM
Houston'sr home record is better than our road record.

Baseball is not a game in which anyone should be expected to sweep another team handily.

Agree. Sweeps on the road are very tough. This game was always going to be a tough one to win.

Still, Dusty handled Arroyo incorrectly.

WVRedsFan
06-03-2012, 05:21 PM
Very typical for Bronson to lose some effectiveness after 100 pitches for sure.

Very sad: Dusty left him out there one batter too long.... Pitch #106 is a two run homer for the Astros. With tomorrow an off day, and the bullpen fairly well rested, why send Bronson back out there to pitch the seventh given the quality of the Reds bullpen??

Typical. Gotta trust those veterans.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:24 PM
Double for Frazier.

WVRedsFan
06-03-2012, 05:25 PM
Double for Frazier.

Must have been the rest he got -- not

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:27 PM
I still think we pull this one out. I like our chances against their pen.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:27 PM
infield hit for Cozart.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:28 PM
Check swing infield hit for Cozart. 1st and 3rd.

WVRedsFan
06-03-2012, 05:28 PM
Wow. Base hit for Zach on a mistake

WebScorpion
06-03-2012, 05:30 PM
2 strikes Drew, Choke up.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:31 PM
Stubbs strikes out swinging.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:31 PM
If Drew Stubbs ever fouled off a two strike pitch, I would faint.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:31 PM
2 strikes Drew, Choke.

Is this what you meant to type?

Degenerate39
06-03-2012, 05:32 PM
Please tie this up Joey PLEASE

WebScorpion
06-03-2012, 05:34 PM
Is this what you meant to type?Nah, that's just the way he took it.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:35 PM
Deep sac fly to center. Zack nearly doubled up. Ball got away, so Zack advances to third.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:35 PM
Votto flies out to deep center. 5-3 Astros.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:35 PM
Cozart goes to 3rd on the throwing error.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:37 PM
Phillips grounds ou to 1st. 5-3 Astros mid 8th.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 05:37 PM
Ground out to 1st. Should've gotten more than 1 there darnit!

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:38 PM
Ground out to 1st. Should've gotten more than 1 there darnit!

The real issue is that the game should be 3-3.

But I guess it's time to move on. Maybe we'll get them in the ninth.

WebScorpion
06-03-2012, 05:41 PM
Cozart goes to 3rd on the throwing error.
This is the reason I think the Reds can always beat these guys. Frazier should have never been on base - they pitched him something like 4 or 5 fastballs in the same spot until he hit one fair. Cozart should not have been on base - the pitcher or 2nd baseman should have grabbed that and thrown him out, then he gets to third on a throwing error when he should have been thrown out on the deep fly. This team gives us too many chances, eventually our guys should come through.
:beerme:

PuffyPig
06-03-2012, 05:42 PM
The real issue is that the game should be 3-3.

But I guess it's time to move on. Maybe we'll get them in the ninth.

Of course if you had taken Arroyo out earlier, the Reds inning would have gone completely different. And of course you are assuming the Astros wouldn't have scored on the Red's reliever.

Vottomatic
06-03-2012, 05:43 PM
Dusty should have taken out Arroyo after the guy doubled off the wall. It was obvious Arroyo didn't have it and the wheels were about to fall off.

Dusty strikes again!!!!!

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:43 PM
Ondrusek in to pitch

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:45 PM
Of course if you had taken Arroyo out earlier, the Reds inning would have gone completely different. And of course you are assuming the Astros wouldn't have scored on the Red's reliever.

Agree on the second point. It's possible the Reds' reliever would have given up the runs anyway.

On the first point, if Arroyo comes out, Reds would have (should have) double switched Frazier into the game anyway. So I don't see why the Reds inning should have been different.

Bottom line, if I knew Arroyo should have been out, the Reds should have known it.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:45 PM
Infield hit for Martinez.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:47 PM
They are calling that an error on Frazier which is a bad scoring decision

PuffyPig
06-03-2012, 05:49 PM
On the first point, if Arroyo comes out after the sixth, Reds would have (should have) double switched Frazier into the game anyway. So I don't see why that eighth inning would have been any different for the Reds.


Becuase the timing would be different. Everything about the inning would be changed. The Reds might have scored 10 runs, they may have scored 0. But every sequence would be different.

If the pitcher decides to hesitate a second before throwing a pitch, he's changed the sequence of events. Especially in a sport like baseball, where randomness runs supreme.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:49 PM
Johnson strikes out swinging.

alloverjr
06-03-2012, 05:50 PM
Of course if you had taken Arroyo out earlier, the Reds inning would have gone completely different.

I'm not sure you can assume that at all. In fact, good chance Frazier hits in the nine hole regardless. Sure, maybe they pitch differently or the Reds don't take the same approach at the dish, but the order would have been the same, IMO. Dusty made a mistake, and one he needs to learn from.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:53 PM
Wallace hit by the pitch

WebScorpion
06-03-2012, 05:53 PM
Argh. Logan beaned Wallace. That Wallace kid has a weird grip...the bottom 2 fingers on his top hand are overlapping the top 2 fingers on is bottom hand.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:54 PM
Castro singles to left. Bases loaded.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:54 PM
Becuase the timing would be different. Everything about the inning would be changed. The Reds might have scored 10 runs, they may have scored 0. But every sequence would be different.

If the pitcher decides to hesitate a second before throwing a pitch, he's changed the sequence of events. Especially in a sport like baseball, where randomness runs supreme.

Sure, anything could have been different.

Leaving Arroyo to pitch to Maxwell, indeed to pitch that seventh inning at all, was awful managing that directly led to this being a three run game (now two) instead of a one run game.

The manager left the pitcher in too long, he likely did it because the pitcher was up lead off, it was poor reasoning, a poor decision, and may have cost the team the game.

Although Ondrusek, who has struggled lately, isn't helping matters right now.

Vottomatic
06-03-2012, 05:54 PM
I would make a move for Arroyo now.

I would have too. Key reason the Reds are losing. Manager waits too long to give the yank.

RedlegJake
06-03-2012, 05:54 PM
After 15 pitches Ondrusek gets hit at a .300 clip - time to change

PuffyPig
06-03-2012, 05:56 PM
I'm not sure you can assume that at all. In fact, good chance Frazier hits in the nine hole regardless. Sure, maybe they pitch differently or the Reds don't take the same approach at the dish, but the order would have been the same, IMO. Dusty made a mistake, and one he needs to learn from.

You've missed my point.

It doesn't matter that the order would be the same.

The changed timing means that every pitch and every swing would be different.

We change pitchers and even if we get out of it, Frazier would bat at a different time. That changes everything. Frazier might still hit a double, as he sometimes hits doubles. But what he actually did on this AB is likely not particularly relevant ton what he would have done if the timing is different.

Kc61
06-03-2012, 05:57 PM
After 15 pitches Ondrusek gets hit at a .300 clip - time to change

Logan's numbers have suffered lately. I'm concerned that he can't handle this much usage.

Logan's strikeout to walk ratio is flattening, and he was much more effective in April.

Reds aren't using him too much for many relievers, but this pitcher seems to fade with a lot of use.

RedlegJake
06-03-2012, 05:57 PM
Whew - come backer that Logan bobbled but he had plenty of time to get him anyway

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:57 PM
Gonzalez grounds back to Ondrusek. 5-3 Astros after 8.

WebScorpion
06-03-2012, 05:57 PM
Logan's numbers have suffered lately. I'm concerned that he can't handle this much usage.

Logan's strikeout to walk ratio is flattening, and he was much more effective in April.

Reds aren't using him too much for many relievers, but this pitcher seems to fade with a lot of use.Pray for Masset and Bray... ;)

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 05:58 PM
One last chance.

Bruce, Heisey and a pinch hitter due up

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 06:00 PM
Myers in to pitch. Bogusevic in to play right.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 06:00 PM
Bruce flies out to center.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 06:02 PM
Heisey fouls out to 3rd.

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 06:02 PM
Last chance. Ludwick steps up to hit the 3 run solo shot. *grin*

_Sir_Charles_
06-03-2012, 06:04 PM
K. Ballgame.

I'm glad I went to last night's game instead.

Reds Fanatic
06-03-2012, 06:04 PM
Ludwick strikes out swinging. Reds lose 5-3.

WVRedsFan
06-03-2012, 06:40 PM
Tough game to lose. Now, if the Mets can beat the Cardinals again tonight, we still lose ground with Pittsburgh still winning despite everyone's proclamation that they will come down to earth. If that happens, we're up 3 and it's Pittsburgh in second place. If the Cards win, we are once again 2.5 up.

I do know this. If I were the manager, and it's probably a good thing I'm not, Bronson always goes only 6 innings. More often than not, bad things happen after 6 for Arroyo.

lollipopcurve
06-03-2012, 07:02 PM
Leaving Arroyo to pitch to Maxwell, indeed to pitch that seventh inning at all, was awful managing

I think you're right on with the Arroyo thing, KC. He's not the innings eater he once was. The fact that Baker does not recognize this is completely predictable.